From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #131 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, February 21 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 131 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: e-bomb (njc) [Randy Remote ] Re: politics NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: what day is it? njc [Michael Paz ] Re: e-bomb (njc) [sl.m@shaw.ca] Ft Liquordale Anyone (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Subject: what day is it? njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: politics NJC [sl.m@shaw.ca] trying Joni only ["Mark or Travis" ] change njc ["Kate Bennett" ] deb talan NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: what day is it? njc [Susan Guzzi ] Today in History: February 21 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: February 21 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: e-bomb (njc) ["kakki" ] Re: Joni on war [KJHSF@aol.com] Blues ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:50:49 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: e-bomb (njc) kakki wrote: > Hey Lori, > > Thanks for your support recently. I appreciate it. > > Honest question by me. Why would the Saudis officially want to support > terrorism against us? I don't think they would, officially. bin Ladin is a Saudi, and his reasons for terrorism include revulsion that the US has military bases on the 'holy land' and that we support Israel. Probably, as you say, a Saudi businessman would be able to overlook alot more than, say, a militant fundamentalist. The Saudis threw bin Ladin out of their country, so I don't think there is any one unified 'Saudi' that represents all Saudis any more than there is a unified American viewpoint. > I'm not saying that aren't but why would they when > they get most of their income from the West and have something like $500 > billion in holdings in the U.S., including the majority part of AOL-Time > Warner and CNN? really? > > > Are they playing both sides of the fence here? But if they wanted the U.S. > gutted, why, when they have too much $$ tied up there? > > I have read some opinions that the US are not attacking the Saudis because > they have holdings on such a great piece of the US economy. But why has > Saddam always been the target? Why did Clinton bomb Iraq relentlessly > during his administration without either UN or Congressional approval? Why > didn't people protest then? The alternative media like The Nation and Democracy Now certainly did try to raise awareness about Clinton's bombing, but mainstream press never really picked up on it. But I see mainstream press ignoring key issues all the time. > I ask not to be provocative - I am trying to > figure it all out. > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:53:58 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: politics NJC colin wrote: > Victor Johnson wrote: > > >> > >> > > > > > >Since this is so clear, that most people are never going to agree, I'm left > >kind of wondering what the incentive is for such in depth discussions all > >relating to politics and war. > > > the world is teetering on a precipice. is it any wonder people are > discussing it? I find the opposite, those not thinking about it or > discussing it, to be hard to understand. I agree. As Jackson Browne sang, there are lives in the balance. To carry on as if we're not tempting Amageddon is kind of like fiddling as Rome burns. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:08:05 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: what day is it? njc Happy Fecking Birthday to you Rose. Hope the tickets work this time for the Bruuuuuuce show. Have fun! Love Paz > In a message dated 2/20/03 8:41:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, RoseMJoy@aol.com > writes: > >> The hell with all this politics, it's my feckin 50th Birthday!!!duh >> U r toast Jimmy!!! LMAO >> >> > > Well since the *true* Bday fairy is now in the USA, I guess I best step in. > > Happy Happy Fucking Birthday Rosalita!!!! > May all your dreams come true, and that means Bruce Springsteen will be > knocking at your door any minute now. (He's been begging me for your > address). > > I hope I'm still not toast :~( > > xoxox > Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:08:39 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: e-bomb (njc) Kakki, I would say that's a legitimate reason not to go to war - the isolationist position. I'm not sure I agree that America often gets pulled into conflicts it didn't initiate (or in some way sustain). To give two examples: it's because of the support for Israel of American Jews that no American administration will cut the aid given to Israel. Without that aid (Laurent, tell me if I'm wrong here), Israel could not sustain itself economically. And it's America that keeps vetoing attempts to get Israel to stick to UN resolutions, and this is something that really upsets the Arab world - why sanctions are imposed aganst them (or even invasion) for ignoring UN resolutions, yet nothing happens to Israel for doing the same. So it really is America that is keeping that conflict bubbling over. I'm not saying they shouldn't give aid to Israel - I'm just saying that, in so doing and without exerting much political pressure to reach a settlement - they're fueling the fire, and causing the Arabs to hate them. (This is to simplify things of course - there's the anti-Semitism issue and the need to protect Israelis from that, and the question of whether the Arabs really want a political settlement. . . but you take my point, I hope.) And a second example: it was Irish Americans giving money and political support to Sinn Fein/IRA that, in part, kept the violence in Northern Ireland going. In neither of these cases, did America get pulled into anything - they pulled themselves in and arguably caused the conflicts to deepen and/or last longer than they otherwise would have. The thing is that Americans want to be powerful in the world - want to have influence - and the price of that is you end up involved in issues that lead to America being seen as the villain of the piece, which it sometimes is, but not always. Sarah t 9:32 PM -0800 02/20/2003, kakki wrote: >The other option is my wish that the US pull out of all foreign >involvements completely tomorrow . . . at some point we should look >after the security of our own country and allow others to look after >the security of their own. Not saying my country right or wrong, >but historically, the US was pulled into these conflicts which they >did not initiate to begin with. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:14:37 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Ft Liquordale Anyone (NJC) Hi Folks I arrive in Ft. Lauderdale sometime Saturday afternoon with Bob Dylan's new guitar player ( Freddie Koella) and Zachary Richard and gang. The fest is called Fiesta Tropicale and I understand we are closing the show on Sunday evening at 5pm for a 90 minute set. Is anyone going to be around the area this weekend? If so please email me privately with your contact info and we can try to hook up. I am sure we will have a guest list for the show on sunday. I fly home on Monday am for hell week (Mardi Gras). Love Paz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:23:33 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Subject: what day is it? njc happy happy happy birthday rosie! i guess the birthday fairy is enroute to boston...well, what are you doing for the big 50? i hope it was a sweet day for you with lots of JOY! xxoo kate ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:37:24 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: politics NJC I totally agree with this Randy. I think whichever side of the fence a person is on, the fact remains that whatever America does is likely to lead to lots of deaths - go to war (kill Iraqis and risk conflagration), keep the sanctions going (kill Iraqis and give the Arab world another reason to hate the West), lift the sanctions (help Saddam to kill more Iraqis and produce more weapons, which he's likely to use one day). Western governments are faced with life and death choices whichever way we look, and to carry on as though nothing is happening is odd - although admittedly some people might need a psychological break from it. I know I got scared last night for the first time after reading that Saddam has apparently handed over biochemical recipes and Iraqi scientists to al-Qaeda related groups. It feels as though the whole world has changed, and we're back in the middle of the cold war with all the chest beating and propaganda, except now the "enemy" is more agile and less visible. Sarah At 9:53 PM -0800 02/20/2003, Randy Remote wrote: >I agree. As Jackson Browne sang, there are lives in the balance. To >carry on as if we're not tempting Amageddon is kind of like fiddling >as Rome burns. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:40:13 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: trying Joni only Hello people! He's ba-ack! I've been listening to Travelogue alot in my car lately, getting familiar with it and really falling in love with it. Some parts work better than others but overall I think it hangs together pretty well. It's a wonderful re-interpretation and expansion of some fantastic songs. That's what I think anyway. Tonight I loaded 'Blue', 'Court and Spark', 'Hejira' and 'Wild Things Run Fast' into my cd wallet. Travelogue is making me want to explore Joni all over again! I got a headset for my phone at work, have started going to the gym again and my shoulder and neck are much better. I guess I couldn't stay away forever. So I decided to try out Joni-only for awhile. If there are any interesting posts on the following njc topics: movies (in particular 'The Hours', 'Chicago', 'Adaptation' or 'The Two Towers') Six Feet Under Judy Collins Billie Holiday Laura Nyro cats dogs the sex life of the JMDLer Wally K's vital statistics Steve Dulson's double life as an agent in HMSS Kakki's never-ending close encounters with LA celebs Bob Muller's backside Ashara Stansfield - international woman of mystery the Happily Ever After True Life Story of Mags and Brian Colin's canine ashram Steve Polifka's first world tour Victor's latest cd Big Walt's Tales of the City Patrick Leader's Tales of THE City the John Low Down Under Follies the Lori Fye Annual Marathon Jim L'Hommedieu, *the* Cowboy Junkies junky Debra Shea's first exhibit at the Guggenheim the publication of Mary Pitassi's new novel, 'A Life by the Lake' Heather's first annual Judy-fest Deb Messling winning the Nobel Prize Phyliss & Bob Ward's grand opening of 'Pottery World in Bakersfield' Scott Price winning the Pulitzer Prize for his seminal work 'Joni Mitchell - A Philosophical Examination of a Cranky (But Great) Poet/Musician/Singer/Composer/Artist' Sherelle Smith's first concert at Carnegie Hall or any juicy tidbits of gossip that anybody cares to pass on if you think of me and have the time, I would love it if you would take the time to cc me or forward it to me. That's all for now. I'm glad to be back and look forward to seeing you in my Inbox REAL SOON! Mark E. in Shoreline Which Is Just North of Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:10:02 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: change njc kakki >>People around the world resent us. What can we do in real action to change our ways so that those people are relatively happy with us? All I can see is to begin pulling out, sending aid as needed for the transition and spend our resources taking care of our own problems and issues at home. What are your ideas?<< these are such good questions kakki...when i majored in religous studies i realized what a goldmine of information was available about understanding different cultures by studying their religious beliefs...this led me to imagine how wonderful it would be if our government had advisors with backgrounds in world religion...especially in times of negotiation & conflict...because the world is made up of relationships & the foundation of relationships is listening, understanding, negotiating (rather than threatening & bullying)...that is just one idea...not being the world's arms dealers is another...we need visionaries in power in our government... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:10:02 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: deb talan NJC i think she may be on my indiegrrl list, her name is quite familiar...have you checked cdbaby? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:14:06 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: what day is it? njc Oh Rosie, HAPPY FREAKIN BIRTHDAY! I am so behind on posts it is almost 1:30 in the am, and I have a whole 4 hours sleep in front of me, but I hope you are out and keeping people up late on your 50th! Much love, joy and peace to you on the beginning of the second half of your life girl! Peace Susan - --- RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > The hell with all this politics, it's my feckin 50th Birthday!!!duh > U r toast Jimmy!!! LMAO > > rosie > > > Better ask questions before you shoot > Deceit and betrayal's bitter fruit > It's hard to swallow, come time to pay. > That taste on your tongue don't easily slip away > > Let Kingdom come. I'm gonna find my way > Through this lonesome day Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 02:37:29 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: February 21 1966: Chuck and Joni Mitchell perform at the Chess Mate in Detroit. 2001: At the Grammy Awards, Carlos Santana and Joni Mitchell came onstage to announce the winner for Album of the Year. Patiently, they delivered the pre-fabricated patter leading up to opening the envelope. As Santana ripped the envelope, Mitchell spoke the inevitable, "And the winner for best album of the year is" when Santana suddenly chimed in, "'A Love Supreme' by John Coltrane!" They both smiled deeply. It turned out that Eminem really won the Best Album. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=725 - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 02:37:29 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: February 21 On February 21 the following items were published: 1972: "A Heavy Weekend for..." - Detroit Free Press (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=953 1978: "The Queens of Rock" - US (Biography, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=391 1999: "Rocking and Renovating" - Los Angeles Times (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=909 2001: "Ballad of the Rude Canadian" - Toronto Globe and Mail (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=613 2002: "Lifetime achievement Grammy for Joni Mitchell latest in long awards list" - Sympatico NewsExpress (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=939 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:54:06 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: e-bomb (njc) Sarah, > I would say that's a legitimate reason not to go to war - the isolationist position. I think it's more of just weariness of having to be on the front end of these conflicts so often and taking all the backlash for it. Everyone I talk to is so fed up with it all. No one has the wish for the US to be the great leader or be the most powerful. If world opinion or consensus is so much against the US, why should it continue to put itself out on the line? Look at so many of the countries that say they will help the US with Iraq. Yet they all want huge pay-offs or deals first to assist us. > I'm not sure I agree that America often gets pulled into conflicts it didn't initiate (or in some way sustain). I think some look at the main examples of WWI and WWII and Vietnam. All conflicts started by other countries. The mid-east? All arranged and redrawn by other countries. The US had smaller direct involvements in countries when they were fighting the Cold War by proxy with the USSR > To give two examples: it's because of the support for Israel of American > Jews that no American administration will cut the aid given to > Israel. Yes that has always been the complaint going back most of my life. Yet the US has also tried on numerous occasions to help them work out the problem, but it never seems to stick. > And it's America that keeps vetoing attempts to get Israel to stick to UN resolutions, and > this is something that really upsets the Arab world - why sanctions > are imposed aganst them (or even invasion) for ignoring UN > resolutions, yet nothing happens to Israel for doing the same. I'm not clear on all of that. The only thing I have heard is that the US has protested trying Sharon as a war criminal. The take on the conflict the past few years has been muddied, I think, by the question of whether Israel is defending itself against attack. I don't know how anyone in that region can live under that constant conflict. > I'm just saying that, in so doing and without exerting much political pressure to reach a > settlement - they're fueling the fire, and causing the Arabs to hate them. I think there have been attempts but the US's plate has been full during the time, too. I saw some article today about renewed pressure from both the UK and US on Israel to go back to settlement talks. At some point, these people need to do something to resolve their own problems, and not wait on the cue or lead from the US. > And a second example: it was Irish Americans giving money and > political support to Sinn Fein/IRA that, in part, kept the violence > in Northern Ireland going. Yes, I learned a bit about this here on the list a few years ago. I never knew that such support was so significant to the IRA. But again, this was not official US policy to support them. The IRA has long been on the list of terrorist organizations here and I believe it has been a crime here for many years to send them money. I have never known of anyone personally who would support them in any way. > The thing is that Americans want to be powerful in the world - want > to have influence - and the price of that is you end up involved in > issues that lead to America being seen as the villain of the piece, > which it sometimes is, but not always. But I don't see that the Americans want to be kings of the world, so to speak. They probably mainly want to keep competitive in the world economy. So many other countries in the world have competed to establish economic or political dominance in the world, too. It's not like every other country is all so pure and the US is the only country out there with foreign influence. But perception is 90% of everything. I think your analysis of the Saudi situation is right. They are really jammed. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 02:44:36 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on war In a message dated 2/20/2003 11:46:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com writes: > does anyone want to venture an opinion about > what Joni thinks of the proposed war against Iraq? > > I remember her saying in an interview that, during the Vietnam War, the press lumped her in with the peace movement. But the truth of it was that rather than protesting, she was performing for the soldiers down in Camp Lejeune. She really felt a lot of compassion for the soldiers, and that was what moved her to action. This is where she met Killer Kyle from The Beat of Black Wings. It seems to me that she chronicles war as it affects people personally which is part of the beauty of her writing. I'm glad that she chooses to stand back from speaking publicly, because her ideas come out so brilliantly in her art, and she does that by relating some personal detail that somehow resonates universally and transcends the issues of the moment to address something greater. When Killer Kyle talks about his girl aborting their child, and how the powers-that-be pick wars for the soldiers to die in--she sums it up with "The old hate the young, that's the whole heartless thing." Wow! That's it in a nutshell! No matter what the political reasons, she blind-sides you with an observation like that!!! If asked about the impending war, I imagine hearing her, in that Canadian accent: "Oh, you know, the old are always eager to send the young off to slaughter, eh?" Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 02:45:53 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Blues I suspect you'll die happy anyway! You're lucky, John, in that the premium pressing of "Blue" was done by a UK company. Right! Let's get straight on to the question, then! I've seen some Quiex II pressings of "Wild Things Run Fast" that appear to be marketed by Reprise itself and I'll bet it's great. My LP of WTRF is in perfect shape but the next time I see the Quiex II version, I'll try it out. I have a really nice Quiex II pressing of Fleetwood Mac's "Mirage". In gold lettering, it says it's a promo copy and the company retains ownership, but then there's a sticker on it that brags, "QUIEX II Limited Edition Pressing." If it was a promo, given freely to stations, why would they describe it as "limited edition?" That's a "selling feature" so I think the Quiex II pressing are products for audiophiles, disguised as promos. No matter. My point is "Mirage" is every bit as quiet and smooth as my Nautilus edition of "Fleetwood Mac" and the MFSL edition of "Rumours". Nautilus (an audiophile company that folded) pressed "Court and Spark". You really need that one. That was widely available in the USA so you may have to import it into the UK. It has a rice paper sleeve and the original gatefold artwork is intact. The funny thing about it is that the premium vinyl is better than the multi-track recording of "Court and Spark". Now I love C&S but there are several places where you can hear things overloading. There are places where complex passages don't get dramatic, they just get congested and gritty. There was a 4 channel version of "Court and Spark" but that doesn't appeal to me too much. That's about the end of Joni's catalog on premium vinyl, except...... No more will I teach you today. Clear your mind, grasshopper. Lama PS, I have a second promo copy of "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" that I'll sell for $8 plus shipping. John Sprackland asked, >>>>> Can anyone tell me whether any other Joni albums were issued on audiophile vinyl - if I could replace my worn thin vinyl copies of HOSL and FTR I think I'd die happy! >>>>> ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #131 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)