From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #123 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 18 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 123 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Suggestion ["Suzanne MarcAurele" ] keep your fingers crossed (njc) ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: Pazfest - a New Orleans tribute to Joni Mitchell - review [SCJoniGuy@] Re: keep your fingers crossed (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: keep your fingers crossed (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Pazfest - a New Orleans tribute to Joni Mitchell - review njc [Cather] joni piano scores ["mike pritchard" ] Re: keep your fingers crossed (njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni's guitars [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: JOni's guitars [Bobsart48@aol.com] NJC: All I have to say about war... ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: change of mind NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: change of mind NJC [David Marine ] speaking of RT (NJC) [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: Joni's guitars [Dan Olson ] Re: Joni's guitars/Now with 29 Skaters on Wolman Rink [Michael Paz ] Re: change of mind NJC [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Joni's guitars [Scott Price ] Re: speaking of RT (NJC) [dsk ] RE: All I have to say about war... ["Heather" ] Re: change of mind NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Open email to the peace movement NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: change of mind NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Give Peace a Chantz njc [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni's guitars [Dan Olson ] Re: Open email to the peace movement NJC [sl.m@shaw.ca] RE: criticism - NJC ["patrick leader" ] testing njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: criticism - NJC [Scott Price ] Re: Music discoveries, njc [Michael Paz ] Re: Elusive Dreams (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Pazfest - a New Orleans tribute to Joni Mitchell - review [Michael Pa] Re: Pazfest - a New Orleans tribute to Joni Mitchell - review [Michael Pa] Re: [NortheastJonifest] RE: NJC feb 16!!!!!! [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:33:51 -0500 From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: Suggestion Could the contents possibly be done in HTML so one could click to the particular letter sent? thanks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:50:11 -0500 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: keep your fingers crossed (njc) Asking that you all pray for me on Wednesday as I attempt to get back into my house after what has been a ten week absence. I know the power of positive thinking that this list possesses, and I am not afraid to invoke that power when necessary. But I promise to only use the force for good, not for evil. Sorry, getting silly here. Thanks again and keep those fingers, toes and eyes crossed. Sue _____________________________________________________________ Get 25MB, POP3, Spam Filtering with LYCOS MAIL PLUS for $19.95/year. http://login.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus&ref=lmtplus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:55:06 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pazfest - a New Orleans tribute to Joni Mitchell - review In a message dated 2/17/2003 4:28:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, Murphycopy writes: > Why not just take out a gun and kill poor Bob Muller . . . No harm, no foul...believe me, by now I'm used to the GIANT wave of JMDL apathy that cloaks my project like a Dorothy Lamour sarong. No problem, to each their own & I love my peculiar hobby...matter of fact I'm on pins & needles waiting for Feb 25 when New Yorker Melissa Errico releases her new CD with a Night Ride Home cover! And speaking of which, I had previously mentioned the Claire Martin cover of Blue Motel Room, which I have since received and listened to, several times. Very interesting version...firstly, it's a duet with Ian Shaw (who's also given us covers of This Flight Tonight, Furry Sings The Blues and Goodbye Pork Pie Hat), and it's all acapella with a Take 6-style backing chorus. As the track runs under 2 minutes, they only do a handful of the lyrics...they leave out the verse with the pachyderms and also the one where Joni name-checks herself. As for Pazfest? It's f*cking fantastic...the incredible Pink Floyd meets Led Zeppelin take on Hejira with Brian Stoltz throwing in solo after solo is one of the most mind-blowing things I heard all year. And Paz is working on getting the rest of that unforgettable night to us as well, so that's cool. Bob NP: Billy Joel, "The Great Wall of China" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:57:15 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: keep your fingers crossed (njc) Mrs. Cameron writes: << Asking that you all pray for me on Wednesday as I attempt to get back into my house after what has been a ten week absence. >> I already think of you way more than I should, Sue, so you can be sure I will be sending you all my best. But have I missed something? I didn't know there was a problem with getting into your house. As always, I blame AOL. Hoping all is okay, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:01:11 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: keep your fingers crossed (njc) Mrs. Cameron writes: << Asking that you all pray for me on Wednesday as I attempt to get back into my house after what has been a ten week absence. >> I already think of you way more than I should, Sue, so you can be sure I will be sending you all my best. But have I missed something? I didn't know there was a problem with getting into your house. As always, I blame AOL. Hoping all is okay, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:03:07 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Pazfest - a New Orleans tribute to Joni Mitchell - review njc --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Catherine writes: > > << I don t as a rule care for Joni covers. >> > > Why not just take out a gun and kill poor Bob Muller > . . . (Oh yeah, I > forgot that Canadians don't have guns!) Good thing, eh? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:08:23 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: joni piano scores Can anybody suggest where I can find piano music for a Joni song, and which songs you would recommend for a complete beginner; you know, someone who thinks the notes on the left-hand side of the keyboard begin with Q, W and E and the right-hand ones end I, O and P. Awaiting your suggestions in snowy barcelona, Mike NP Frere Jacques (badly) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:09:09 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: keep your fingers crossed (njc) --- Suze Cameron wrote: I know the power of > positive thinking that this list possesses, and I am > not afraid to invoke that power when necessary. But > I promise to only use the force for good, not for > evil. The power of the jmdl is such that it can *only* ge used for good and not for evil - so go forth with courage and do what you must do! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:19:20 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: keep your fingers crossed (njc) In a message dated 2/17/03 4:51:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, suze_1@lycos.com writes: > Asking that you all pray for me on Wednesday as I attempt to get back into > my house after what has been a ten week absence. I know the power of > positive thinking that this list possesses, and I am not afraid to invoke > that power when necessary. But I promise to only use the force for good, > not for evil. Sorry, getting silly here. > Suzie, I'm rooting for u. You're a good person and so undeserving of this. much love, rosie smothered in snow Better ask questions before you shoot Deceit and betrayal's bitter fruit It's hard to swallow, come time to pay. That taste on your tongue don't easily slip away Let Kingdom come. I'm gonna find my way Through this lonesome day ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:20:07 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: joni piano scores Mike, jmdl.com has the sheet music to 'Blue' and 'For Free'. Lots of detail but doesn't look easy though! I can't really play the piano so I took THOSL sheet music book I have around to a friend of mine and he found 'Shades Of Scarlet Conquering' the most manageable and it sounded lovely! Good luck. "Beauty and madness to be praised because it is not easy to be brave" STEVE T. NP: 'Tom Cat Goodby' by Laura Nyro - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike pritchard" To: "list" Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 10:08 PM Subject: joni piano scores > Can anybody suggest where I can find piano music for a Joni song, and which > songs you would recommend for a complete beginner; you know, someone who > thinks the notes on the left-hand side of the keyboard begin with Q, W and E > and the right-hand ones end I, O and P. Awaiting your suggestions in snowy > barcelona, > Mike > NP Frere Jacques (badly) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:33:18 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's guitars Dan wrote: > I saw her in Minneapolis on the S&L tour, and as I recall, she had 3? > identical blond colored fat hollow-body guitars that were very similar (if > not identical) to the one(s) I'd seen Pat Metheny play numerous times > (including this concert). The guitar on ebay is sunburst (but otherwise > similar). Okay, I located my incredibly bad dub of this video, and sure > enough, she is playing 2? different blond guitars (at least one is an > Ibanez, which is what the one on ebay is). Got that? So she had, by my > reckoning, at least four similar guitars, maybe many more. Did she have > one for every one of her distinct tunings? > Well, my commercial copy of the "S&L" video shows her using blond guitars all the way up to "Black Crow", where she uses a sunburst version. I could not quickly discern how many such blond guitars there were. However, Metheny's guitar was definitely a Gibson, and hers were Ibanez. (I believe I recall that this video was culled from more than one performance on the tour in California). After that, I believe that the sunburst made additional appearances in the video, and there are scenes showing the transfer to her of one guitar to another (via one of her "roadies", I gather, who I assume must have tuned it). I had not thought of the possibility of one guitar for each tuning. Hmmm. That would take some of the chance (of a poor re-tuning job) out of it. Does anyone know if these (Ibanez Benson's) were relatively inexpensive guitars ? They sounded fine with Joni playing them, but perhaps she just liked them because of the fretboard, or their weight, or the semiacoustic wide body sound ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:41:02 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: JOni's guitars From the site (that I revisited via Dan's link) came the following correction. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2508437444 IMPORTANT CORRECTION The serial numbers for this instrument are B825576 for the body and 4589 for the head stock. In doing some research, I find that the "B" indicates that it was manufactured in February and the "82" is 1982. So it definitely was not used to record "Hejira", although she did use it on tour. That means that it definitely was not used in the S&L video, either. What an odd misrepresentation to make by the seller (about Hejira). Yes, he corrected it, but one's credibility is bound to suffer from that type of gaffe. Are we sure it is one of Joni's at all ? Yeah, probably. But I would want more confirmation than this guy correcting an error that was bound to be caught sooner rather than later anyway. I assume he is now talking about the Refuge of the Roads tour. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:38:18 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: NJC: All I have to say about war... "I got fury in my soul fury's gonna take me to the glory goal in my mind I can't study war no more" Laura Nyro 1969 Okay so I didn't write it but I think it sums up what a lot of people are feeling right now. STEVE T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:33:48 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni mention on VOD - now njc Gerald Notaro wrote: > > Jerry, now in St. Petersburg, FL where it is 71 degrees and sunny Ahhh, yes. I see reports on tv about the Mets and Yankees in spring training in Florida, and just drool at the sunny pictures of palm trees and people in shirt sleeves, and start to understand the appeal of living in Florida. It's not all alligators, monster mosquitos and voter confusion. There's at least a foot of snow here in Manhattan (very unusual!) with more expected. Some sidewalks have been cleared off but the streets are still solid white. It's a beautiful sight from my window. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:52:03 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: change of mind NJC Colin- Initially we were told that we needed to go to war on Iraq because they represent a credible threat to the United States, and were part of Al-Queda, therefore responsible for 9-11. With the inablility of the Bush Admin. to make this connection, even Powell's resorting to fabricating 'proof' of secret weapon factories, the argument has shifted. Now we are going in as heroic liberators of the oppressed people of Iraq. There are some problems with this. 1) The US plans to fire 300 cruise missiles into Iraq in the first 48 hours of warfare. By the navy's own admission, only 70 % of the bombs in the Desert Storm attack hit their targets. And only 10% of the tons and tons of bombs used were 'smart' bombs. The rest were just bombs. Baghdad is a large urban area. If we presume that Hussein is not going to be in the middle of a field waving a white flag, we can also assume massive casualties, despite the absurd propaganda about 'surgical strikes', a clean war, etc. 2) It is against the UN charter to attack a country if you are not being attacked. The gov't of the US has been repeatedly in the habit of deciding when and when not to play by the rules. Regarding the invasion of Panama, for instance, the entire UN with 2 exceptions, condemned the attack. We did it anyway. Ditto the Kyoto global warming treaty, nuclear proliferation agreements.... 3) Iraq, sadly, is not unique. There are ruthless tyrants all over. In Saudi Arabia, a woman accused of adultry is subject to execution. In Africa there has been horrible genocide. Our friends the Turks have been practicing genocide against the Kurds. Why have we not intervened? 4) Is the US gov't really concerned with the Iraqi people (who, remember, will have our bombs raining on their heads)? The gassing of the Kurds is frequently mentioned as an atrocity committed by Hussein. What is not often mentioned is that the US encouraged them to rise up against Hussein, and then did nothing to help them as they were being slaughtered. 5) This is an important point. The US has a rich history of regime change. The leaders we have installed or that we have helped to overthrow existing regimes in most cases have been the bloodiest thugs in modern history. Considering the 'regime' in power in the US now, there is little reason to think it will be different this time. Saddam and the Taliban are just two examples of bastards we have supported. 6) Bush the humanitarian has blocked increased spending on AIDS internationally. 8,000 people die of AIDS each day. Perhaps some of that $200 billion could be put to a better use. 7) The inspections are working. They were working before. Former inspector Scott Ritter talks about how they were making excellent progress tracking down Iraqi weapons. Then the US withdrew the inspectors. Why? Was a peaceful solution not part of the plan? (For more on this, search Scott Ritter). 8) Iraq's military might is only 25% of what it was formerly, another fact that is not being reported in the mainstream. 9) Attacking the middle east will create more hatred of the US 10) Creating a cycle of violence, and more terrorism. 11) Concerning biological weapons, the US currently has active germ warfare production facilities (in fact, the big Anthrax scare following the World Trade Center bombing was discovered to be domestic in origin. We did not bomb New Jersey). We are the only nation on earth that has dropped atomic bombs on another country. We have billions of dollars and many 'geniouses' busily developing newer and more advanced weapons of mass destruction. We have the 'School of the Americas', where thugs the world over come to be trained in the fine art of torture. We have been actively selling arms to the rest of the world for decades. It is our biggest export. This hipocracy has not been lost on the 12 million people who marched to protest the war this past weekend. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:02:45 -0800 From: David Marine Subject: Re: change of mind NJC Randy, while I agre with much of what you posted, I do not believe this particular statement is correct. What is your source? on 2/17/03 3:52 PM, Randy Remote at guitarzan@direcpc.com wrote: > in fact, the big Anthrax scare > following the World Trade Center bombing was discovered to > be domestic in origin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:11:01 -0500 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: speaking of RT (NJC) I was listening to Richard Thompson's "You?Me?Us?" today and was struck by a song called Put It There Pal, a vitriolic tune about a big rock star who betrayed him. Anyone know who the object of RT's venom is? Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:14:39 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Joni's guitars A quick google search located the following: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/search/detail/base_pid/519921/sourceid=00393188815590112107, brand new for $2169; certainly not relatively inexpensive, in fact, quite expensive (certainly the same order of magnitude as fat Gibsons. Note that it doesn't have the "name tag". I found it interesting that Ibanez has a "Metheny" model as well (though he clearly played a Gibson on S&L); Metheny got more famous as a guitarist after playing with Joni. Too bad they didn't honor Joni with a signature model (maybe they tried?). Do you suppose that with Joni's new electronic guitar that handles of her tuning dilemnas, she has simply tired of all of these old analog guitars, and just wants to get rid of them? At 05:33 PM 2/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know if these (Ibanez Benson's) were relatively inexpensive >guitars ? They sounded fine with Joni playing them, but perhaps she just >liked them because of the fretboard, or their weight, or the semiacoustic >wide body sound ? > >Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:21:37 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Joni's guitars/Now with 29 Skaters on Wolman Rink I have neveer seen this guitar either in fotos or on video. I am sure she had a deal with ibanez (who Metheny had a deal with as well) and this could just be ones she had as back ups. It lowers the value a lot for me. One of those Blondes would be really cool though. She always had multiple guitars for tunings in the later years. I saw her at a Gavin convention here in New Orleans and she had multiple acoustics with a tech tuning for her. Best Paz > I saw her in Minneapolis on the S&L tour, and as I recall, she had 3? > identical blond colored fat hollow-body guitars that were very similar (if > not identical) to the one(s) I'd seen Pat Metheny play numerous times > (including this concert). The guitar on ebay is sunburst (but otherwise > similar). Okay, I located my incredibly bad dub of this video, and sure > enough, she is playing 2? different blond guitars (at least one is an > Ibanez, which is what the one on ebay is). Got that? So she had, by my > reckoning, at least four similar guitars, maybe many more. Did she have > one for every one of her distinct tunings? Did she choose to only play > blond ones while touring with Metheny, so that all the guitars on stage > (not including Pastorius' bass) would match? (Incidentally, Metheny's > guitar was a Gibson, and simpler than Joni's electronically, a true "jazz > guitar".) I encourage everyone to go to this site and look at the amazing > pictures http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2508437444; I, > for one, will keenly watch the bidding over the next week or so. > > > > At 01:13 PM 2/16/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >> I have never bought anything on e-bay, and am not a collector. But this >> guitar has to be pretty much way up there on a JM fan/collector's wish list. >> Is it one of the guitars that was used in the S&L video ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:13:33 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Joni mention on VOD hey kerry: i've only seen 'vicar' a few times. my lister friend heather and her husband fred are really into britcoms, and once when i visited them, fred had taped several hours on bbc america while we heard the remarkable dianne reeves on the new haven green. then we went home and watched, and the 'vicar' episode in particular was brilliant. the best experience i ever had watching a britcom was when i convinced my dad and stepmom to watch an episode of 'keeping up appearances'. they loved the pretensions of hyacinth bucket (that's pronounced 'bouquet'). i don't have a lot of shared pleasures with my dad, so that was fun. patrick np - his name is alive - stars on e.s.p. >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of kerry >Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 10:47 AM >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Joni mention on VOD > > >I was watching a re-run of Vicar of Dibley on PBS last night and >there was a >Joni reference. They had just had a funeral for one of the characters and >Hugo was complimenting Geraldine on the service: > >Hugo: I particularly like that quote from Johnnie Morris. >Geraldine: I think you'll find that was Joni Mitchell >Hugo: That's right, "Don't it always seem to go, you don't know >what you've >got till it's gone." > >Anyone else a fan of this show? A certain lister from NZ has given me so >many new addictions. First, French and Saunders and now Vicar! (Not to >mention Crunchie bars, hokey pokey, and pineapple lumps!) > >Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:23:30 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: change of mind NJC Randy, just two points about the previous inspection team and AIDS spending. I believe Saddam accused two of the inspectors of being American and Israeli spies and said he wouldn't cooperate with them, so the team was withdrawn. This came after they started digging for bodies of political prisoners that Saddam is believed to have used in chemical weapons experiments. And the inspections weren't working. Everything was hidden from them, as now, until a high level Iraqi defector with knowledge of Saddam's weapons started giving America information, which was passed to the inspectors, and from that point on, they had some success -- which was when Saddam accused them of spying and withdrew his cooperation. Regarding Bush and AIDS, I thought he just announced another $500 billion? I know it's been criticized because it isn't going to companies who make generic versions of the medications, but at least he's not blocking expenditure. Sarah At 3:52 PM -0800 02/17/2003, Randy Remote wrote: >6) Bush the humanitarian has blocked increased spending on >AIDS internationally. 8,000 people die of AIDS each day. >Perhaps some of that $200 billion could be put to a better use. >7) The inspections are working. They were working before. >Former inspector Scott Ritter talks about how they were making >excellent progress tracking down Iraqi weapons. Then the US >withdrew the inspectors. Why? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:27:56 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Joni's guitars At 05:14 PM 2/17/2003 -0700, Dan Olson wrote: >Metheny got more famous as a guitarist after playing with Joni. Too bad >they didn't honor Joni with a signature model (maybe they tried?). I doubt they "tried." While Joni is an innovative guitar player, signature models tend more toward virtuoso types...Metheny certainly qualifies there. >Do you suppose that with Joni's new electronic guitar that handles of her >tuning dilemnas, she has simply tired of all of these old analog guitars, >and just wants to get rid of them? I've been wondering about this too. I just can't imagine "liquidating" old equipment like that with its huge sentimental value, unless one was strapped for cash or storage space, but then, Joni never did much care to dwell on past albums, always preferring to discuss and promote the "latest project." Maybe she has decided she'll never play the older guitars any more and is cleaning house. I also wonder if she is donating part or most or all of the proceeds from these sales to Mr. Walecki, who has had a few health problems of late. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:29:52 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: speaking of RT (NJC) That question has resulted in much heated discussion at various times on the RT list. Some people think it's Mark Knoepfler, and then other people disagree, and then the general consensus usually becomes that it's a composite character, as many of RT's "characters" are. RT's not a very autobiographical songwriter, so that makes sense to me. Wickedly to the point song, though, isn't it? In concert, especially, he can get so worked up about it, it's hard to believe he doesn't have a particular person and particular event in mind. RT, like Joni, never says who any of his songs are about. Debra Shea Bruce Kimerer wrote: > > I was listening to Richard Thompson's "You?Me?Us?" today and was struck by a > song called Put It There Pal, a vitriolic tune about a big rock star who > betrayed him. Anyone know who the object of RT's venom is? > > Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:36:08 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: All I have to say about war... i've been humming that song all day, steve. i ended up making a cinnamon and almond coffee cake drizzled with icing today. we have 2 feet of snow here AND IT'S STILL SNOWING!!!! Ugh! Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Toogood Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 5:38 PM To: Joni List Subject: NJC: All I have to say about war... "I got fury in my soul fury's gonna take me to the glory goal in my mind I can't study war no more" Laura Nyro 1969 Okay so I didn't write it but I think it sums up what a lot of people are feeling right now. STEVE T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:48:30 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: change of mind NJC sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: On the other hand, there is a huge democratic movement in Iraq, led > by Ahmed Chalabi of the Iraqi National Congress, based in London. He > promises a secular Iraq, with equal representation between all the > religious factions, recognition for the Kurds, fair and free > elections. He would be the champion of the left, if the left wasn't > opposed to war. And you say this guy is the best choice we have? Chalabi's INC has no support from the main opponents of Saddam within Iraq. Chalabi is a MIT trained banker born into a wealthy family with close ties to monarchy installed in post WWI Iraq by the British. He has lived in the west and does not enjoy recognition by the Iraqi public. His role is to enable the US oil companies to seize Iraqi oil, and he has openly said so. His allies in Washington plan to denationalize Iraqi oil and parcel it out to American companies. Since he will not have widespread Iraqi support, the US military will be in the position of propping up his new regime. This is all too familiar! RR http://www.prospect.org/print/V13/21/dreyfuss-r.html The INC is quietly courting the American oil companies. In mid-October, Chalabi had a series of meetings with three major U.S. oil firms in Washington. The INC and its backers make no bones about the fact that the American forces gathering to attack Iraq will be liberating Iraq's oil. Unable to restrain himself, Chalabi blurted to The Washington Post that the INC intends to reward its American friends. "American companies will have a big shot at Iraqi oil," he proclaimed. "The American oil companies are going to be the main beneficiaries of this war," says [James E] Akins [former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia]."We take over Iraq, install our regime, produce oil at the maximum rate and tell Saudi Arabia to go to hell." "It's probably going to spell the end of OPEC," says JINSA's Bryen. [Iraq is currently producing oil at less than a third of it's capacity] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:57:34 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Open email to the peace movement NJC I wonder if this person would favor bombing Iraq if (s)he were still there instead of cheerleading from the safety of the UK? I understand people of means in Iraq are arranging rural escapes in anticipation of the coming war. Most others have no such options. sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > This is from an open email to the peace movement written by Rania > Kashi, the 19-year-old Iraqi student living in the UK. It was quoted > by Tony Blair in his speech yesterday. The entire email can be read > at > http://www.opendemocracy.net/debates/article.jsp?id=2&debateId=88&articleId=983 > > sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > Fred, not sure what you mean by Blair having to follow the line of > other European countries. I believe eighteen countries in Europe > support the war. Six oppose it. Three are neutral. Sarah, what is your source for this information? France gave a speech against war in the UN and was applauded, which is unheard of in the UN. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:04:50 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: change of mind NJC Randy, I believe Chalabi does have support inside Iraq. He's certainly supported by the Kurds and that's important, and by shia groups (the shi-ite Moslems form the majority in Iraq, although it's ruled by the Sunni minority). Chalabi's is the only group promising a multi-racial democracy, free elections and the rule of law. The CIA hates him, and they are the source of a lot of the propaganda you read in the West about Chalabi. I'd urge you to read Nick Cohen's article at http://www.observer.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,684005,00.html Nick Cohen is a leftwing journalist in the UK, political editor of the Observer, well to the left of Tony Blair (in fact, has been a major thorn in Tony Blair's side for many years), but above all he's a radical democrat and so he supports the war and Chalabi. (If you do read this article, it's actually two articles, but the website doesn't make that clear. One minute you're reading about Iraq, then it slides into CCTV cameras in the UK.) Wouldn't it be a good thing if Iraqi oil meant we were less dependent on Saudia Arabia and OPEC? Anyway, it's now looking doubtful that the U.S. will support Chalabi. The CIA seems to be getting its way. Sarah At 4:48 PM -0800 02/17/2003, Randy Remote wrote: >And you say this guy is the best choice we have? Chalabi's INC has >no support from the main opponents of Saddam within Iraq. Chalabi >is a MIT trained banker born into a wealthy family with close ties to >monarchy installed in post WWI Iraq by the British. He has lived in the >west and does not enjoy recognition by the Iraqi public. His role is >to enable the US oil companies to seize Iraqi oil, and he has openly >said so. His allies in Washington plan to denationalize Iraqi oil and >parcel it out to American companies. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:14:10 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni's guitars Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > I had not thought of the possibility of one guitar for each tuning. Hmmm. > That would take some of the chance (of a poor re-tuning job) out of it. That practice goes way back, probably back to the moment she could afford to do it. She used to be surrounded by a circle of Martins on stage. One big reason for doing this (besides the sheer difficulty of accurately tuning between songs, and the time it takes to do it) is that when you radically retune, the strings and the neck have a 'memory' and tend to go back out of tune a few times before they settle in. Dan Olson wrote: > Note that > it doesn't have the "name tag". If you are talking about the ebay sunburst, it does appear to have her name inlaid in the last fret marker as the blond one does. They don't show a close up, but that's sure what it looks like. > Do you suppose that with Joni's new electronic guitar that handles of her > tuning dilemnas, she has simply tired of all of these old analog guitars, > and just wants to get rid of them? She has said that she switched to the under 3 lb Parker Fly guitars because she wasn't able to carry around the heavier guitars. Even though the Ibanez is a hollowbody, it is probably a bit heavy for her, as well as kind of large and thick for a person of Joni's size. Also, I'm guessing she doesn't play all that much guitar these days, and is 'thinning out the herd'. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:15:03 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: change of mind NJC I think it's widely known. David Marine wrote: > Randy, while I agre with much of what you posted, I do not believe this > particular statement is correct. What is your source? > > on 2/17/03 3:52 PM, Randy Remote at guitarzan@direcpc.com wrote: > > > in fact, the big Anthrax scare > > following the World Trade Center bombing was discovered to > > be domestic in origin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:22:41 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Give Peace a Chantz njc kakki wrote: > Hey Randy, > > Thanks for you post. I'm sorry if I ever made you feel that I felt you were > anti-American for opposing the war. Geez, that would be a totally > ridiculous stance for me to take. Any remarks I've made come from a larger > perception - coming from larger outside sources in the world. I'm just > seeking the truth like everyone else and trying to add my two cents. I'd > much rather have a fruitful exchange of ideas than shut people down here > with personal or implied name-calling. I know you would and I wasn't taking it personally > I've certainly enjoyed my exchanges with you and am grateful that you have > always been open in your responses and cool about it. And likewise! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:28:58 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Joni's guitars Yes, and also, I bet her guitar string SETS were carefully selected based on her tunings; strings come in all different gauges: .009, .010, .011., .012, .......... up to .06 and beyond; you want them all to have the same tension. At 05:14 PM 2/17/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > > > I had not thought of the possibility of one guitar for each tuning. Hmmm. > > That would take some of the chance (of a poor re-tuning job) out of it. > >That practice goes way back, probably back to the moment she >could afford to do it. She used to be surrounded by a circle of >Martins on stage. One big reason for doing this (besides the sheer >difficulty of accurately tuning between songs, and the time it takes >to do it) is that when you radically retune, the strings and the neck >have a 'memory' and tend to go back out of tune a few times before >they settle in. > >Dan Olson wrote: > > > Note that > > it doesn't have the "name tag". > >If you are talking about the ebay sunburst, it does appear to have >her name inlaid in the last fret marker as the blond one does. They >don't show a close up, but that's sure what it looks like. > > > Do you suppose that with Joni's new electronic guitar that handles of her > > tuning dilemnas, she has simply tired of all of these old analog guitars, > > and just wants to get rid of them? > >She has said that she switched to the under 3 lb Parker Fly guitars >because she wasn't able to carry around the heavier guitars. Even >though the Ibanez is a hollowbody, it is probably a bit heavy for her, >as well as kind of large and thick for a person of Joni's size. Also, >I'm guessing she doesn't play all that much guitar these days, and >is 'thinning out the herd'. >RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:28:32 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Open email to the peace movement NJC Randy, France was applauded in the UN, not Europe. In favour of the war are: Britain, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Denmark, Netherlands, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, then the Vilnius group: Romania, Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Slovakia, Slovenia. Opposed to the war are: France, Germany, Belgium, Austria, Greece Neutral: Ireland, Sweden and Finland, although I believe Ireland may be moving toward supporting the war. Sarah At 4:57 PM -0800 02/17/2003, Randy Remote wrote: >Sarah, what is your source for this information? France gave a >speech against war in the UN and was applauded, which is unheard >of in the UN. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:22:16 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: criticism - NJC hey david, mack, and others... i just wanted to follow up on my comments on kakki. please know that i do love and respect her. though i often don't agree with her politically, i value her viewpoints, and follow her links and read her research, and have learned important things and modified my views as a result of her posts. however, she has, very consistently in the last 18 months, brought up the subject of anti-americanism whenever anyone has expressed doubts about our foreign policy. and, i repeat, any criticism of bush almost invariably gets a vague comment about anti-americanism on the list from kakki. david, you may not have seen it, but i have, and i'm apparently not alone. this is what got me riled up enough to post. i've been really withdrawing from political threads on this list, for a couple of years. i didn't like the strident sound of my e-voice. but noticing something so unrespectable from someone i mostly respect, over a long period of time, seemed to demand a comment. this exchange occured on saturday: > It does seem to me that you brand EVERY attempt to criticize the > U.S. as "anti-American." > kakki: I think I have only used that term here twice in the past couple of years and that's just a lie. kakki lied. she has made the accusation of anti-americanism over and over again. and when she says she hasn't accused listers, she's also lying. she has not, i repeat, NOT, distinguished between lister comments and non-lister writing posted here in her comments. each of us who has posted criticism of bush 43 has felt accused by kakki of anti-americanism. that is what i spoke of, and what i hope kakki will stop doing. i don't want her to stop contributing to the discourse, i just want her to stop associating opposing viewpoints with treason. dissent IS patriotism, in a healthy democratic society. i'm also very unimpressed by kakki's early response to my rant, especially my post "is this clear enough for you, kakki?". she responded, "maybe i'm too dense" and "i'm not an intellectual" come on. i have a good vocabulary and i read a lot, but i don't even have a college degree. am i an intellectual? i don't believe for a second that kakki was unable understand my viewpoint. she was dishonest, again. this is a woman who asked us to trust her opinion on the missile shield because of her long association with military contractors and the lawyers that represent them, which is fine and added to my knowledge on the issue. but still... kakki, please tell us: when are we supposed to think you are smart, and should adjust our views based on your wisdom? when are we supposed to think you are stupid, and not responsible for your views? you CAN NOT have it both ways. patrick, who has probably written enough for tonight. np - amon tobin - bridge > >Hey list -- > >Kakki had been vocal in her general support of Bush and our system. She is >sort of like the Ayn Rand of the list. I think she is smart and informed, >even when I don't agree with her, and have never had the sense that she put >down others as anti-American. She could not have been more fair-minded >during our Reagan/HIV exchange. I value Kkakki's opinions and hope, like >mack, that she keeps posting (however wrong, or right, she may be)! > > >David > > >patrick leader at pleader@nyc.rr.com wrote: > >> every single thread in >> which a jmdler says anything negative about our current >president eventually >> draws a comment from kathryn about anti-americanism on the list. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:25:53 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: testing njc testing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:45:21 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: criticism - NJC patrick leader writes: > i just wanted to follow up on my comments on kakki. I think you should have written "follow up on my attack on Kakki." What's your problem, dude? Apparently all the posts calling for a cessation of personal attacks have not dissuaded you from continuing to flame Kakki. First you post her given name, when you know that she has reasons for not doing so, and now you continue flaming and name-calling. Why? Do you feel this is productive to the "discussion group?" Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:44:13 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Music discoveries, njc "he's not the kind you have to wind up on sundays....." Paz > In a message dated 2/17/2003 8:37:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, > olszer@xlsecurity.com writes: > >> A 2001 release I just discovered is: Blind Boys of Alabama: The Spirit of the >> Century. > > I've been on the verge of getting this one for awhile, Laurent. Thanks for > pushing me off the fence - I've only read GREAT things about it. > >> Honorable mention to Chris Robinson, an american who recorded his 1st album >> in France. Like a modern Nick >> Drake/Lennon/Ryan Adams. > > I'm sure you know that Chris is/was the lead singer for Black Crowes, the > modern day band that does classic rock better than most 70's bands did it. > Haven't heard his solo record, I'll have to put it on the ol' radar screen. > This time of year is usually always a slow one for new releases so it is > appropriate to go back and get the stuff I missed. > > Bob > > NP: Tull, "Wind Up" > > PS: Thanks for copying me on your post, Laurent...as I am Joni only I would > not have seen it otherwise, and I DO love to chat about music. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:22:47 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Elusive Dreams (NJC) And you neveer called me and I was trying to get you guys all weekend. I hope you had a good time and I am sorry you had problems, but am happy you tried and hope I get to see you tomorrow b4 you go. Love Paz > Well folks, try as I might - and I REALLY wanted this - the 90% mental > did not beat the 10% physical ... or perhaps it was 5% physical, as it > was just my right knee that gave up. I felt some annoying but slight > pain at 10 miles or so, and it was a little worse at 17 miles. By the > 19th mile, my knee simply would not bend to run. I walked on to Mile > 20, then tearfully called it quits. > > I'm disappointed that I didn't make it to the Finish line to hear the > crowd yell "BILLY!" as I had my brother's name on my singlet, but that > disappointment will fuel my determination to do this again. > > (I'm also disappointed because there was our girl Donna "Tush" Binkley, > scanning the incoming participants for me ... I walked up behind her > instead, and we had a very nice couple of hours at the Acme Oyster Bar > with her friends from Mobile.) > > Next time I'll be more diligent in my training (I'd slacked off at > times, and more than I should have), and I'll do more cross training so > my knees will be stronger, and I'll be "lighter" on my feet (30 pounds > less would be a good thing). > > Once more, thanks to all of you who helped me get here to try my best, > and to raise money to help those living with HIV and AIDS - that's > really the most important part of this entire effort. > > Writing from a cyber cafe on Toulouse St in the Quarter ... with love > to all of you, > > Lori > cant wait to hear all about the run... i want details!!!! :-)))))))) > > Im so excited, it's as if Im running too..oh yea, I am , I said I would > didnt I? > > so proud of you Loori Running Cloud > > you rock!!!!!!!!! > > love, Moogs > > > > > > You open my heart, you do. > Yes you do. > - JM > Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:25:13 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Pazfest - a New Orleans tribute to Joni Mitchell - review Smurph??? Have I told you lately that I LOVE you? Yer boy Paz > Catherine writes: > > << I don t as a rule care for Joni covers. >> > > Why not just take out a gun and kill poor Bob Muller . . . (Oh yeah, I > forgot that Canadians don't have guns!) > > << Pazfest, the two-CD set of live all-Joni music > recorded at the Howlin Wolf, New Orleans May 28, > 2000, is an eclectic collection of Joni Mitchell music > sung and played many different ways. As always with > such things, I have my own personal favourites, the > ones that stand out for me in some way or another. >> > > I have said it before, BUY THIS. It truly is wonderful. And I hear that for > an extra 50 cents per 2-CD package, Michael will PERSONALLY LICK YOUR > PURCHASE. > > Also, if you have friends who don't like Joni (and who doesn't?) they may > very well like her music and words as performed by some of these great > performers. > > And best of all, as Catherine reminds us . . . > > << in acquiring for yourself and your friends > a copy of this excellent collection of live music, you > will also be helping out a number of worthy causes, > including jmdl.com, jonimitchell.com and the Ruth Paz > Foundation, a foundation that helps children in > Honduras receive medical treatment they would not > otherwise receive. Information on where and how to > order Pazfest were recently posted by Michael Paz, but > you can also find it at www.jmdl.com - right on the > first page. >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:27:22 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Pazfest - a New Orleans tribute to Joni Mitchell - review Another huge thanks to my boy Bob who is the King of covers bar none (no pun..) We had a great night tonight and talked about you. Hope your ears burned! Love Paz > In a message dated 2/17/2003 4:28:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, Murphycopy > writes: > >> Why not just take out a gun and kill poor Bob Muller . . . > > No harm, no foul...believe me, by now I'm used to the GIANT wave of JMDL > apathy that cloaks my project like a Dorothy Lamour sarong. No problem, to > each their own & I love my peculiar hobby...matter of fact I'm on pins & > needles waiting for Feb 25 when New Yorker Melissa Errico releases her new CD > with a Night Ride Home cover! > > And speaking of which, I had previously mentioned the Claire Martin cover of > Blue Motel Room, which I have since received and listened to, several times. > Very interesting version...firstly, it's a duet with Ian Shaw (who's also > given us covers of This Flight Tonight, Furry Sings The Blues and Goodbye Pork > Pie Hat), and it's all acapella with a Take 6-style backing chorus. As the > track runs under 2 minutes, they only do a handful of the lyrics...they leave > out the verse with the pachyderms and also the one where Joni name-checks > herself. > > As for Pazfest? It's f*cking fantastic...the incredible Pink Floyd meets Led > Zeppelin take on Hejira with Brian Stoltz throwing in solo after solo is one > of the most mind-blowing things I heard all year. > > And Paz is working on getting the rest of that unforgettable night to us as > well, so that's cool. > > Bob > > NP: Billy Joel, "The Great Wall of China" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:28:54 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] RE: NJC feb 16!!!!!! > It9s cold as feck here too. Warm wishes to you all. > > Love > > Paz > > wow.... what an amazing place this is and what a > great group of friends i have! thank you all for the > fabulous birthday wishes! you all really made my > day!! > > extra-special thanks to the amazing wally for > remembering my birthday despite having lost his > address book (you found that, i assume??) and to > michael paz for the virtual "patoot" pat! > wooohooooo!!!!! > > cindy, praying for hot flashes, now that i'm old. > it's COLD here!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:26:44 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pazfest - a New Orleans tribute to Joni Mitchell - review Paz writes: << Have I told you lately that I LOVE you? >> No, not since that night up north between the trailers at Jonifest. Love you too, Michael. XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 00:24:01 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #122 hi >>>>laurent wrote >>>> A 2001 release I just discovered is: Blind Boys of Alabama: The Spirit of the Century. >>>bob replied >>>I've been on the verge of getting this one for awhile, Laurent. Thanks for pushing me off the fence - I've only read GREAT things about it. & i say: dont even hesitate to get this one. it is amazing!!!! ron ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #123 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)