From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #114 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, February 14 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 114 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Oil guys (njc) or "Duke of Oil" [Randy Remote ] Re: war (njc) ["kakki" ] Today in History: February 14 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: February 14 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: war & lawsuits NJC [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Oil guys (njc) ["mike pritchard" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 21:59:55 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Oil guys (njc) or "Duke of Oil" kakki wrote: > > Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are dead, these are not my numbers but were part of the article I quoted, and it does seem high- > I've heard and read for years that this number is very false. I watched > nearly every hour of that war (even at work). Most of the Iraqi army > surrendered right away. Smart bombs targeted military and support > installations, not masses of civilians. Yebut yebut- Coverage of Desert storm was censored. Former Pres Bush said "we will not make the mistakes we made in Vietnam"....the subtext I read into that is that showing the realities of war, bloody corpses and burning villages was not appetizing to the American people and probably helped to halt the Vietnam War. So, realizing TV as the most powerful advertising tool there is, they created reporter "pools", meaning that one reporter got to go along on a military escort to film and document a few scenes that they (the military) wanted the people to see, and then all the reporters shared the material that was gathereed. You can argue security issues if you want to, but the reporters that were there know what it was- strategically controlled access. To say that watching CNN was giving anyone a true picture of what is going on....well, it has taken years for alot of what happened to come to light, including.... > >hundreds of US vererans are suffering from a mysterious disease, > > Which they now say is from the chemically-tipped scuds Saddam had fired on > them. Who is they? The desert is littered with radioactivity from the uranium tipped shells we used, which, I believe is against SOME kind of Geneva convention or something. The reason they use it, as I'm sure you know, is because it will pierce 18" of solid steel and penetrate tanks. Our guys had to handle this stuff in order to use it. The consequences are still being felt by the veterans as well as the civilians of the region. Add to that Saddam's chemically tipped scuds (though the veterans I have heard have not mentioned this, but it is certainly credible) and the experimental vaccination cocktails the soldiers were given.....what a nasty mess. Desert storm vets found out that what the Vietnam vets (the ones that are still alive) were saying all along was true: you are expendable. Though not a peculiarity of the US military, certainly. > > > and the Persian Gulf has been ravaged by the largest oil spill in history. > > Oil "spill?" I clearly recall watching hundreds of oil wells on fire as the > Saddam's army retreated. Yes that was horrible. You don't remember the spill? > Here's another way to look at it. The main charge of the Federal government > under the constitution is to protect the country. Okay, but following a military agenda is not protecting us, it is making the world more dangerous. Eisenhower warned about the military-industrial complex and it has come to pass. > And there are thousands of products other than > bombs made (satellites, software, radar, etc.) by defense contractors. I will do without them if we can have a peaceful world, but there is no reason these things could not have (or would not have) been developed outside of the military. > > What were people to think when it wasn't even reported in the > > US media? > > ?!! It was all over the news at the time and reported every day for several > weeks while it lasted. Many people were freaking out that he just sprung it > out of nowhere. Then many started accusing him of wagging the dog to get > Monica off the front page. Okay my bad on that one > for me was Chomsky's "What Uncle Sam Really Wants" > > I recommend it. > > > I've checked out some of his writings and to me, he is someone who has > nothing but contempt for most Americans and their country. I haven't seen contempt for most Americans. His main criticisms revolve around our foreign policy, which in short is kill the peasants, plant a despot, profit from the resources. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 23:25:14 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: war (njc) I meant the war on terrorism, which many of the terrorists have declared on us in both word and deed for a long time now. > & the opportunistic attempts (by king george II & his men) to link the two > is deeply insulting to the intelligence of many many people here in this > country & around the world... They are basing it on years of reports already done. They didn't dream it up. There is a book by Dr. Laurie Mylroie, a terrorism expert and Natural Security Council Advisor on the Middle East to Clinton from 1992 on that details what was known before and during his administration, too. "The War Against America: Saddam Hussein and the World Trade Center Attacks: A Study of Revenge." She has lectured on middle east terrorism and its origins at Harvard and the Naval War College. I've seen her interviewed on TV lately and she is no fan of Bush and is critical of him but she is just as adamant about the connection as Bush is. Here is a link to an interview with her. http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=8745 Maybe she is full of it, too, but I wonder what her motive would have been to make it up way back when she was advising Clinton? I'm not bringing up Clinton to make anyone angry - just showing that others have said the same back during his administration. I think you have to look at events that happened during that time to piece it all together and not look at it in a vacuum of beginning with Bush. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 02:11:30 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: February 14 1967: Joni performs at the "Riverboat" coffeehouse in Toronto. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=602 - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 02:11:30 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: February 14 On February 14 the following items were published: 2000: "A Case of Joni" - The Advocate (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=450 2000: "Both Sides Now" - VH1 Website (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=455 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 02:22:51 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: war & lawsuits NJC (AP) A group of U.S. soldiers, parents of soldiers and six U.S. House members filed a lawsuit in federal court Thursday seeking to stop the president from launching a war against Iraq without a declaration of war from Congress. The lawsuit seeks an immediate injunction against Bush and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to prevent them from launching an invasion of Iraq. Reps. John Conyers, D-Mich., and the other plaintiffs in the lawsuit say a resolution passed by Congress in October did not specifically declare war and unlawfully ceded the decision to Mr. Bush. Conyers cited an excerpt from Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution that states, "Congress shall have power ... to declare war." - ------------------------------------------------------ Right on! But I'd go further, even paying for it myself if I could. I'd file a suit against Bush, et al., for violating the presidential oath of office, specifically the promise to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States." Can anyone say "Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003"? (It would give the Attorney General the unchecked power to deport any foreigner, including lawful permanent resident aliens. It would give the government the power to keep certain arrests secret until an indictment is found -- never in our history have we permitted secret arrests. It would give the government power to bypass courts and grand juries in order to conduct surveillance without a judge's permission.) Further, no matter where one stands on the coming war, *no* intelligence report from any agency has ever denied that an invasion of Iraq will make the US *more* vulnerable to terrorist attack from Al Qaeda. Ensure domestic tranquility, my ass! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:59:32 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Oil guys (njc) Randy wrote >>History supports the notion that US intervention in foreign countries has been about $$ interests. The book that spelled this out so clearly for me was Chomsky's "What Uncle Sam Really Wants". I recommend it.<< Kakki replied >>I cannot think of any enlightenment I would personally get from reading him. I've checked out some of his writings and to me, he is someone who has nothing but contempt for most Americans and their country.<< mike says Kakki's comments are grossly insulting to Chomsky and a total misreading of his extensive (and extensively, nay exhaustively referenced) work. One of the things which is absolutely obvious in Chomsky is that he loves his country and his contempt is reserved for the politicians, arms traders, gutless and brainless reporters, kissass editors who follow the government's line, the lying media and spurious academics who all contribute to painting a picture of the USA and its geopolitical role which is no shadows and all light. Chomsky has always condemned tyranny wherever it stands and from whichever political wing it emerges. Show me, Kakki or anyone else, any reference in Chomsky's work which allows you to state that he *has nothing but contempt for most Americans and their country*. Don't worry, he won't be suing anyone, he's used to this type of slanderous accusations. It comes with the turf when you write and think against the grain. mike in bcn, who would also recommend Chomsky's work, and Eduardo Galeano's wonderful political works too, especially "The Open Veins of Latin America" (Modern Review Press) and "Patas Arriba" (Upside Down: a Primer for the Looking-Glass World), the latter published by Picador USA. Go to Amazon and read a few pages of it online. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #114 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)