From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #112 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, February 13 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 112 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- war njc [Rob Procyk & Tracy Tolley ] Re: war (njc) [Randy Remote ] Re: war (njc) ["kasey simpson" ] Today in History: February 13 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: February 13 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: war NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: war (njc) ["kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:30:08 -0600 From: Rob Procyk & Tracy Tolley Subject: war njc Ok, I hate to even say anything, but the only comment I will add about this war business is liberation my ass... Happy Thursday, Listas! Evian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:39:04 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: war (njc) kakki wrote: > The oil motive does not hold up for many people, either. If that were true > "Bushie I" and the US could have just wormed their way in and taken over > Kuwait after it was liberated from Saddam. "Bushie I" and the Emir royal family/rulers of Kuwait, like the bin laden family, have been business associates. The US taxpayers and soldiers came to the rescue of Kuwait, which was drilling diagonal oil wells under Iraqi soil (where all the oil was, and which was Hussein's cheif complaint). A US ambassador told Hussein, who had been our ally and whose rise to power we funded, that, were he to invade Kuwait, we would not become involved. > Or could have kept going and > taken out Saddam and installed its "oil empire" 14 years ago. Well, if there is one thing more profitable (for some) than oil, it is war. Turns out we can have two wars, and the oil. Today on the (?major) network news, they mentioned: US oil reserves are the lowest they have been in 27 years. They also mentioned that we should expect gas prices to rise by 50 cents a gallon. (In Iraq two dollars will get you 25 gallons). Who will profit from all this? George Bush Sr. works for The Carlyle Group, the 11th largest defense contractor. The more I have looked into the ties between the Bush administration and the oil and defense interests in the region, the more the oil angle makes sense. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:41:37 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Re: war (njc) Sarah, You have just quoted my favorite line from my favorite book. But don't let what is written here upset you too much. Just go out and talk to your neighbors, people at the stores, etc. and you will see that there are more thinking as you do than not. Though majority doesn't mean you're right ;) also please note, that through all the rhetoric that was posted no one came up with another solution for liberating Iraqi people. No one answered why we waited 14 years to get the oil. What amazes me is all the hate, and angry words used and none of it at Saddam, or Bin-Laden. If some one came in to my house and hurt me or my family I sure wouldn't run next door to ask someone if I could or should fight back. I wouldn't be sent to jail for defending myself, and even if the person were Bill Gates no one would say I fought back just to get his money. He came in to my house meaning to do me harm, and I defended myself. I wouldn't be called right wing, or war monger, or uninformed. No one would say it was only an opinion. Bin-Laden came in to my home, Saddam has supported terrorist. We are on high alert for more violence, and yet we (US) are after oil. If not for the gravity of the situation I would find this logic laughable. Kasey I keep thinking of Charles Dickens - "This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all, beware this boy . . ." SarahGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:12:17 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: February 13 1978: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter was certified gold by the RIAA. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:12:17 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: February 13 On February 13 the following items were published: 1974: "Joni Mitchell In Concert" - The Real Paper (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=768 1975: "Miles of Aisles" - Rolling Stone (Review - Album, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=287 1976: "Cold Blue Steel" - News Record (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=721 1978: "Stephen's Ladies" - People (News Item, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=242 2000: "Both Sides Now" - Newark Star-Ledger (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=448 2000: "On The Record" - Long Island Newsday (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=456 2000: "Something's Lost and Something's Gained" - New York Times (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=454 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:18:14 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: war NJC sarah >>I've been working in this area for about 15 years, so I have spent "more than a second" thinking about it.<< sarah, you've always been quite vague about your work although i recall seeing your references to having been in iraq & being in journalism.... i asked you this once before but you never replied...i think in order for you to have the credibility you seem to be asking for, it would help for you to be more specific...its not enough just to say you've been working in 'this area'- what area are you refererring to? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:15:24 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: war (njc) Randy, The same arguments go around and around all the time. Some see nothing but nefarious motives in their country and some of its leaders, while others like myself look at what is asserted and just can't make the connection. > "Bushie I" and the Emir royal family/rulers of Kuwait, like the > bin laden family, have been business associates. So what? Tons of Americans and Europeans have been employed working in the oil business in the middle east for decades. It's a job working in a primary industry which produces a product that the entire world needs to survive, run machinery and power, heat their homes, drive their cars, fly their airplanes and so on. I know you would rather that we didn't use fossil fuels, but that has been the primary energy source for the world for a long time. Fossil fuels in themselves are not inherently evil. >The US taxpayers and soldiers came to the rescue of Kuwait, which was drilling > diagonal oil wells under Iraqi soil (where all the oil was, and which > was Hussein's cheif complaint). The UN, Saudis and many other countries asked the US to become involved because no other ally had the military power to stop Saddam effectively and quickly. I have not heard of this drilling into Iraq for their oil. I've always heard that Kuwait, though small, has loads of its own oil. > A US ambassador told Hussein, who had been our ally and whose rise to power we funded, that, > were he to invade Kuwait, we would not become involved. Which ambassador and when? I really want to go back and find the Congressional Record on all this. It may still not convince some people, but it may show others that so much that is being alleged all these years later is total revisionist history. > Well, if there is one thing more profitable (for some) than oil, > it is war. Turns out we can have two wars, and the oil. This just sounds so flippant. War COSTS us. I don't think the US has even been paid back for half of its military assistance to other countries since WWI. And everyone seems to forget, we didn't start the war that now faces us. It has been declared on us. The next thing I'm expecting to hear is that Bin Laden is really a fabricated hologram produced by evil scientists who are being funded by Bush and the oil contractors. By the way, what did people think when Clinton unilaterally launched weeks of air strikes on Iraq? Is he in on the cut from the oil cartel, too? > Today on the (?major) network news, they mentioned: > US oil reserves are the lowest they have been in 27 years. Bush started filling up our strategic reserves to a huge amount after 9/11. Some people want to let some of it out to help give us a break on the price but I don't know if that has happened yet. > They also mentioned that we should expect gas prices to rise > by 50 cents a gallon. (In Iraq two dollars will get you 25 gallons). Every report I have heard on the mainstream news is attributing the rise in gas prices to the strikes, uprisings and instability in Venezuela, which is one of the U.S.'s prime suppliers. > Who will profit from all this? George Bush Sr. works for The > Carlyle Group, the 11th largest defense contractor. > The more I have looked into the ties between the Bush > administration and the oil and defense interests in the region, > the more the oil angle makes sense. Again, it's the same old argument that makes no sense to me. Bush, Sr. has the background in the oil business. If he were a scientist, he'd probably be consulting for some scientific development contractor. The Bush family have been extremely wealthy since their ancestors came over this country I think a couple hundred years ago. They don't need to put the whole world and themselves in jeopardy to make a few bucks for some stupid Carlyle Group. I know I waste my words here but I hope some can see that it is really difficult to make these connections. There is just too much contradictory history that refutes it to me. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #112 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)