From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #104 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, February 10 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 104 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: fagan/mcpartland njc [FredNow@aol.com] Re: definitive covers njc [FredNow@aol.com] DR's recepionists! NJC [colin ] Gluten free cooking - success! (and porridge) NJC [ReckersL@ebrd.com] RE: lyric question [Catherine McKay ] Re: DR's recepionists! NJC [Catherine McKay ] Wall to Wall Joni in New York ["Paul Castle" ] Re: definitive covers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Chuck, Kelly, Nuns, etc... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: definitive covers [Catherine McKay ] Circumcision, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Saving the Jews NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] RE: lyric question ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Saving the Jews NJC ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: Saving the Jews NJC ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Jonifest 2003 breaking news ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Saving the Jews NJC ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] definitive covers (NJC) [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: Circumcision, njc [colin ] Re: DR's recepionists! NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: DR's recepionists! NJC [colin ] Re: Gluten free cooking - success! (and porridge) NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #47 ["Timothy Spong" ] "The Drifters"-James Michener [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: "The Drifters"-James Michener SJC ["kasey simpson" ] Re: "The Drifters"-James Michener [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: Gluten free cooking - success! (and porridge) NJC [ReckersL@ebrd.com] Re: Today's Library Links: February 9 - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Gluten free cooking - success! (and porridge) NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Circumcision, njc [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Today's Library Links: February 9 - njc [Susan Guzzi ] would you believe NJC [colin ] Re: Circumcision, njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: Gluten free cooking - success! (and porridge) NJC [ReckersL@ebrd.com] Re: Today's Library Links: February 9 - njc [Susan Guzzi ] Boys play Girls, Hugh's Room, Toronto - sjc [Catherine McKay ] Re: would you believe NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Circumcision, njc [Randy Remote ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 04:07:21 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: fagan/mcpartland njc Thomas Ross writes: >Yes, Fred! usually/always! tasty and soulful. Thanks, Tom. Glad you're digging the music. Much appreciated. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 04:26:33 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: definitive covers njc Bruce Kimerer writes: >My thought on this was not covers that we think are 'better' than the >originals or became bigger hits but, rather, new approaches to the songs, >in tempo, instrumentation, or attitude, that substantially reconceptualized >the tunes to such an extent that the new versions pretty much became the >definitive treatments. Though it remains to be seen if any of these covers become definitive, and they probably won't, but Joan Osborne's excellent "How Sweet It Is" sure fits the bill for re-conceptualized approaches. Some of the songs have been essentially recomposed, with new chords, new melody, new tempo, new feel. Joan and producer/musician John Levanthal (Shawn Colvin, et al.) have spun some real magic here. I love it. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:38:29 +0000 From: colin Subject: DR's recepionists! NJC this morning, about 7.20am I was cutting up the chicken for the dogs. I mistook my finger for a piece of chicken and sliced the top off. 70 mins later it is still bleeding profusely. So i called the dr. The receptionist was not interested!!!! Told me to go to casualty. HOW? I can't drive with out my left hand. I can't afford a taxi to take me on the 20 mile trip. I called casualty and spoke with the dr there who was not pleased with my dr's receptionist. He told me to phone her back and demand she let me see the nurse otherwise he would have to send an ambulance for me and there would to hell to pay! So I did and the recpetrionist reluctantly gave me an appointment with the nurse even tho 'she didn't think it necessery'!!! Why are so many receptionists dragons? fortunately the finger, now well and truly bandaged up is my ring finger so won't really prevent me doing things. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:46:51 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: Gluten free cooking - success! (and porridge) NJC Chris, congratulations on getting the knack of making tasty gluten-free meals! One little tip I could add for flavourings: vinaigrette on any vegetable, raw or cooked. Just mix olive oil and vinegar (preferably wine vinegar) in equal quantities - the official recipe is 2/3 oil and 1/3 vinegar, but half and half is much healthier and hey I like it that way, gives it a strong "bite". Then just add salt and pepper to taste, and that's basically it, but you can also add some mustard (if that's gluten free, I don't know) and herbs as you like. Just very simple and tasty. Then you wrote: "Having said all that, I have discovered one thing I cannot cook to save my life: porridge. Although why anyone would actually want porridge is beyond me, but hey, there's nowt so queer as folk, as they say over here." Chris, porridge has been my favourite comfort food from when I was 10. I used to make a pan full for myself every day after school, and then curl up on a comfy chair with a book and the pan on a thick towel on my lap - heaven! Especially when it's raining outside... I suggest you try it one more time, see if you like it my way! Now my way of making it is: put milk on the boil (yes, milk! don't bother with that boring water variety, it may be the traditional Scottish way but give my Belgian tradition a go!, I think it tastes much better), you can choose skimmed or semi skimmed if you like, then add the oats when the milk gets to boiling point and turn the gas right to its lowest point. You need to experiment with the proportion milk-to-oats to get it right, but when you throw them in the mixture should still be very runny. Then as the oats start boiling, they swell and the mixture gets thicker and stickier. By then you must keep stirring it with a wooden spoon, scraping the sides and bottom of the pan to avoid the stuff sticking onto the pan. When it's ready, the oats should be all soft, not chewy any more, and the porridge should be quite thick Otherwise add milk or more oats until you get it right. If you use "proper" oats, not pre-cooked, then I guess they need to boil at least 10 minutes, so be patient! Close to the end, you add some sugar to taste. (Again, don't bother with sprinkling it on afterwards as per the official recipe, this is much better as you can get consistency and don't end up with some bland and some overly sugarly mouthfuls), just mix it in. And that's it! Then arrange for some good music, a good book, a towel and comfy chair, and enjoy!!! Once you are comfortable with this basic method, you can move to the Advanced Lieve Porridge stage which involves throwing some raisins or sultanas into the milk from the start (to give them time to absorb the milk) and then you need to add less sugar. In fact, I'm just wondering: aren't oats gluten free? And buckwheat? I certainly know that a friend of my kids who was allergic to wheat, could eat those, but I'm not a gluten expert. COLIN??? About nice places to visit: well I still get a kick from living in Greenwich (the London one). Maybe in summer, if I can get it organised, I will have a Greenwich Porridge Jonifest! But without rain, if possible! Gosh, I must be losing my marbles, posting porridge recipes when a) we may be facing a war soon b) I am working in one of the main target areas for terrorist attacks i.e. the London's financial centre, and c) yes I should be working! I guess writing about it, in these worried times, is my surrogate for eating it, so this is my comfort post of the week! Lots of love to you all, Lieve. PS Special message for Susan and Bob etc: I've booked myself on an Ethel Merman show in Greenwich theatre this Saturday. I'll try to send you a report next week! ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:04:54 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: lyric question --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > > now, what does "he heard her off to starboard" mean? > it's from cactus tree. > i can't figure it out! what is "to hear someone > off"? > wallyK Wally, you can tell someone off, or hear someone out, but you can't "hear someone off". It's "off to..." It's an idiomatic expression, as in "off to the left" or "over on my right." "Off to starboard, he heard her" - does that make more sense? (You know what starboard is, I think?) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:07:41 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: DR's recepionists! NJC --- colin wrote: > > Why are so many receptionists dragons? > Because they feel a need to protect the doc (for whatever reason)? Because they're basking in reflected glory? Practicing medicine without a license? Good question, Colin - I've encountered this a few times myself, though, fortunately, not lately. I hope she's been set straight (so to speak) and won't try this again. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:17:58 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Wall to Wall Joni in New York Found this http://www.symphonyspace.org/genres/eventPage.php?genreId=1&eventId=287 >Symphony Space presents Wall to Wall Joni Mitchell (Mar 22, 2003, 11:00am) >This year's Wall to Wall marathon celebrates the continuing >legacy of Joni Mitchell, widely recognized as one of the most >influential songwriters of the 20th Century. Hundreds of >musicians will explore the impact of Mitchell's music and >lyrics on all walks of the music world today. Wall to Wall >Joni Mitchell, our 33rd 'gift' to the city of New York is, as >always, FREE. (But, to help underwrite the costs of >producing this musical extravaganza, a small number of >orchestra seats will be reserved for each segment of the >day in recognition of a $125 contribution. All proceeds >will benefit Symphony Space. To reserve seats, please >call Sharmin Mahmud, Manager of Individual Giving and >Special Events, at (212) 864-1414 x232.) No details of the "hundreds" on the site yet but.... I've found Lucy Kaplansky www.lucykaplansky.com Pianist Jason Moran www.jasonmoran.com Sax player Greg Osby www.gregosby.com Pianist Fred Hersch www.fredhersch.com Edie Carey www.ediecarey.com PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:58:11 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: definitive covers In a message dated 2/10/2003 12:06:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, kimerer@taconic.net writes: > CSNY's Woodstock would. But that would be strictly an American point of view. While I agree with you that CSNY's Woodstock is better known than Joni's own version, when it comes to Woodstock covers they basically break down into 4 subcategories: 1. Those that are derivative of Joni's original from LOTC; 2. Those that take their inspiration from the CSNY version; 3. Those that take their inspiration from The Matthews Southern Comfort version 4. Those that take off in a unique direction with seemingly little or no resemblance to any of the above. I would be hard-pressed to categorize every one of the 75 or so Woodstock's I've heard, but I can honestly say that more imitate the MSC version than the CSNY version. Using that criteria, it could be argued that the MSC cover is more definitive than the CSNY cover, even though it's not as well known on this side of the pond. Woodstock is an interesting study in Joni covers as it has been done in such creative ways. I think for many it sums up the entire hippie generation in one song and as such is an easy "target". Changing the subject slightly, I would argue that Joni's cover of "Twisted" has probably become the definitive version, but that comes from my perspective as a rock and roller. Perhaps in the jazz world this would be considered a blasphemous statement. Bob NP: Hootie & The Blowfish, "Time" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:03:51 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Chuck, Kelly, Nuns, etc... <> Thanks for the link, Michael...I knew I had seen that somewhere. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 08:42:24 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: definitive covers --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/10/2003 12:06:12 AM Eastern > Standard Time, kimerer@taconic.net writes: > > > CSNY's Woodstock would. > > But that would be strictly an American point of > view. While I agree with you that CSNY's Woodstock > is better known than Joni's own version, when it > comes to Woodstock covers they basically break down > into 4 subcategories: > > 1. Those that are derivative of Joni's original from > LOTC; > > 2. Those that take their inspiration from the CSNY > version; > > 3. Those that take their inspiration from The > Matthews Southern Comfort version > > 4. Those that take off in a unique direction with > seemingly little or no resemblance to any of the > above. > Here in Canada, both versions were hits (as I recall.) Maybe I just paid more attention to them because I was already a Joni-fan, but I certainly remember the MSC version equally as well as the CSNY version. (The joys of having one foot in the UK and the other in the USA - - the best of two worlds.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:20:02 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Circumcision, njc > >Colin: you say many complain. Assuming there are about 200 american males > >on JMDL, > >who are circumcised, I haven't read any first hand complaints. > > > and what does that prove? > Colin, I don't know your motives for condemning circumcision, and putting it on the same level on your "I condemn" list as pedophilia for instance. You mentioned watching it once and it was horrible, etc. You were upset, no doubt, but what about the concerned parties themselves? My point is this: this so-called "crime" has been performed millions of times. If none of the "victims" ever complained, and many say they're happy with it, then perhaps the "crime" wasn't really one, wouldn't you say? (excluding the poor medical conditions whenever applicable) As far as I'm concerned, I believe in the Bible (unlike you). So the covenant with G. means something to me. Apart from that, it's a free country. PS: FYI, the bible condemns pedophilia too. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:54:01 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: Saving the Jews NJC Mike wrote: The second film is called 'Amen' and is directed by Constantin Costa-Gavras. It deals with two people, a Catholic priest and a Waffen SS officer who together try to get the Pope to denounce the mass deportation and extermination of Jews. This was discussed here lately (on the list) and I wonder whether the protagonists of that debate (step forward Vince and Laurent) have seen the film or would like to. I'll try to look up the digests to see again what was said about the Pope's inactivity or otherwise in that matter. Hi Mike, Didn't see Charlotte Grey but I did see AMEN. Costa Gavras adapted a play (The Vicar in french, but has a different english title) and clearly adopts the point of view that Pius XII did nothing. Joseph defended the opposite viewpoint, Vince sided with Costa Gavras. Although I had never heard of the supporting facts mentioned by Joseph, the one book denounced in Joseph's Vatican links was more restrained than it was depicted to be: Saul Friedlander's book says that no definite conclusion can be reached without access to the complete Vatican archives, which are finally supposed to be released to historians in the very near future. One thing is for sure: the local clergy who saved jews did so in disobedience to the heads of churches, who were of course getting directives from the Vatican. Amen ends with the priest being sent to a concentration camp. Logical ending, but at the time I saw the movie I said to myself that this must have been an exception. Upon reading Friedlander's book, I was shocked and relieved at the same time (as far as restoring my faith in mankind that is) to discover that, if I recall the exact figure, 260 german priests were found in the camps, and those were only the survivors. I would like to add as a footnote that although the Pope had a moral duty to react, most western countries did nothing as well, and either offered overzealous collaboration with the Nazis in their hunt (eg the french police, Ukranians, Latvians, Poles, etc), or simply shut off their gates to german jews (eg the U.S.sending boats back). The one notable exception among world leaders being Queen Kristina (from Sweden I think, or was it Denmark or Holland?) who wore the yellow star of David herself. Then one wonders why the Israelis only rely on themselves to garantee their safety, just a thought. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:10:58 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: lyric question oooooooooooh how daft of me! he heard her voice coming from that direction! thanks cath, it all makes sense now. (well, not all as in ALL --existentially, metaphysically, etc -- but just that bit of the song). wallyK, just about to make an announcement to the whole list - -----Mensaje original----- De: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] Enviado el: Lunes, 10 de Febrero de 2003 09:05 a.m. Para: Wally Kairuz; Michael Paz; Joni Digest Asunto: RE: lyric question Wally, you can tell someone off, or hear someone out, but you can't "hear someone off". It's "off to..." It's an idiomatic expression, as in "off to the left" or "over on my right." "Off to starboard, he heard her" - does that make more sense? (You know what starboard is, I think?) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:50:53 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Saving the Jews NJC King Christian of Denmark wore the yellow star (maybe he had a wife named Kristina, I don't know) and daily rode, wearing his yellow star, on his horse through Tivoli Garden for all the Danes to see. His reasoning was all Danes were equal and what one Dane had to wear, they all had to wear. That caused enough consternation with the Nazis - because then every Dane then wore the yellow star - that the time of Nazi confusion allowed the Danes to smuggle the Jews out of Denmark on boats into Sweden. I think a total of 4 or 6 Danish Jews were ultimately lost. One of the boats used used in the rescue of the Danish Jews is on dispay at Mystic Seaport, in Mystic, Connecticutt. Vince The one notable exception among world leaders being Queen Kristina (from Sweden I think, or was it Denmark or Holland?) who wore the yellow star of David herself. Then one wonders why the Israelis only rely on themselves to garantee their safety, just a thought. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:52:25 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Saving the Jews NJC King Christian of Denmark wore the yellow star (maybe he had a wife named Kristina, I don't know) and daily rode, wearing his yellow star, on his horse through Tivoli Garden for all the Danes to see. His reasoning was all Danes were equal and what one Dane had to wear, they all had to wear. That caused enough consternation with the Nazis - because then every Dane then wore the yellow star - that the time of Nazi confusion allowed the Danes to smuggle the Jews out of Denmark on boats into Sweden. I think a total of 4 or 6 Danish Jews were ultimately lost. One of the boats used used in the rescue of the Danish Jews is on dispay at Mystic Seaport, in Mystic, Connecticutt. Vince The one notable exception among world leaders being Queen Kristina (from Sweden I think, or was it Denmark or Holland?) who wore the yellow star of David herself. Then one wonders why the Israelis only rely on themselves to garantee their safety, just a thought. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:56:59 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: Jonifest 2003 breaking news stop what you're doing and hear this!!!! there is absolutely no excuse to miss jonifest this year. most particularly because... I HAVE JUST OBTAINED A TEN-YEAR VISA TO GO TO THE US OF FUCKING A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'm going i'm going i'm going. so if you thought you were rid of me, think again. i'll be there and this year i'll be singing brunnhilde's immolation in drag plus the complete mad scene from lucia the lammermore to add to the general elegant character of the fest. and what's this i hear? people procrastinating and not sending their deposits! tut tut. get out those fat checkbooks now and write the darling little checks! deposits AND donations, s'il vous plait. as to the raffles, i'm sending the tiara i wore at the dutch royal wedding last year. i know, i know -- it's LAST year's tiara, but i wore it only once and besides diamonds become ANY girl. what are youze sending? jonifest is one of the few times we can get together in the flesh and channel ethel merman. would you miss such a thrill? no, you would NOT. so give the girl a break, and send ashara your precious deposits, donations, raffle tchotchkas and good vibes. at jonifest you get to kiss maggie mcnally! you see steve polifka's hairy chest! and there's always me, available for a hot dog and a coke! honey, think about it. stop being so annoying, children, and get yourselves back to the garden, for god's sake! wallyK, scaring my housekeeper with my sudden shrieks of joy. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:04:16 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Saving the Jews NJC http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Holocaust/denmark.html http://www.adl.org/tribute_to_danes/edu_overview_2003.asp http://www.adl.org/tribute_to_danes/edu_overview_2003.asp http://www.wkonline.com/a/The_Yellow_Star_The_Legend_of_King_Christian_X_of_Denmark_1561452084.htm a version of the story that says King Chrustian Christian did not wear the yellow star because Denmark has resisted the order, but that the King was involved in other ways with interfering with the Nazis leading to the ultimate rescue of the Jews is http://www.warresisters.org/nva0502-5.htm http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/peaceheroes/king_christianx.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:15:59 -0500 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: definitive covers (NJC) Ron wrote: "what about the byrds version of mr tambourine man??" Yes. I thought of this one later on. It certainly influenced the performance of this song forever after. Aretha's Natural Woman too. Though that's really the original version, and Carole King's later recording is actually the cover of her own song. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:33:28 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Circumcision, njc Laurent Olszer wrote: >> >> >> > >Colin, > >I don't know your motives for condemning circumcision, > I have made it quite clear. It is unnecessary and an abuse of power. I might also add that I am only one of several people who have written on this subject who also condemn it. So I wonder about your motives..... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:43:46 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: DR's recepionists! NJC Colin asks: << Why are so many receptionists dragons? >> Doctors' receptionists deal with people who are sick and in pain every single working day of their lives. At the same time they have to juggle a doctor's schedule in such a way that keeps the doctor happy -- not too many patients, not too few. They see every injury and malady known to mankind, so a cut finger, no matter how painful it is to you, Colin, may not register as a very big deal to a receptionist whose last phone call may have been from a mother with a baby who has a very high fever and also needs to see the doctor immediately. From a doctor's point of view, a dragon receptionist would probably be preferable to a pussycat. In any case, *I* hope you feel better soon, Colin! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:51:38 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: DR's recepionists! NJC Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: >Colin asks: > ><< Why are so many receptionists dragons? >> > > so a cut >finger, no matter how painful it is to you, Colin, may not register as a very >big deal to a receptionist > I understand your point. However, it is more than a cut finger-it is a cut off finger, or rather a cut off chunk of finger. I didn't need to see the dr but one of the nurses. we have plenty. As the nurse who did see me pointed out, this person ahd no business deciding what wasnecessary and what wasn't. The same opinion as the er doc. Apaft rom which it she who expected me to go to the hospitla er which was daft to say the least. as the dr said, he would have to send an ambulance. no one wanted that. > From a doctor's point of view, a dragon receptionist would >probably be preferable to a pussycat. > mmm..firm and polite, yes. One who makes medicla descisions? No. > In any case, *I* hope you feel better >soon, Colin! > well it looks like this bloody thing is going to m=be wrapped up for a mth. I will have to take my dogs to have them groomed. And use plenty of deodourant!!! > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:06:38 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Gluten free cooking - success! (and porridge) NJC Lovely Lieve writes: << Gosh, I must be losing my marbles, posting porridge recipes when a) we may be facing a war soon b) I am working in one of the main target areas for terrorist attacks i.e. the London's financial centre, and c) yes I should be working! >> Hi, Lieve! I think Joni has the answer here, from "The Tea Leaf Prophesy": "This world is shattered The wise are mourning The fools are joking Oh, what does it matter The wash needs ironing And the fire needs stoking" Lieve also writes: << PS Special message for Susan and Bob etc: I've booked myself on an Ethel Merman show in Greenwich theatre this Saturday. >> But Lieve, Ethel is dead! Beware of shoddy imitations (or imitators)! Funnily enough, I had lunch yesterday with my college girlfriend Hannah and her husband who were visiting from out of state. Hannah and I were remembering when we went to see Ethel Merman at a department store record signing back in the 70s. I have told the story here before, but Hannah added some details . . . Ethel was wearing a full-length mink coat and had blood-red fingernails. Hannah also said something I thought was very funny. She called her husband and me her "parentheses." When I asked what she meant, she said, "Well, Bob, you were the first man I ever slept with and he'll be the last!" In other news, Kinsey Sicks is playing in Boston tonight. If anyone here goes to see them, I'd love to hear how it was. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:21:56 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #47 On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Little Bird wrote (in part): >Asking what the song DJRD is about is sort of like asking, "What's life >about?" >It's a very complex song with a lot of references to the books of >Carlos Castaneda, a Mexican philopsher/poet/writer who theorizes about >life, >knowledge and self discovery. One of the "characters" in his books is a >real-life mystic named Don Juan who teaches the ancient philosophies of >the Toltec Indians. The eagle and serpent imagery are derived from these >ancient teachings. > > >Joni, of course, being a huge fan of Aboriginal philosophies, takes >these teachings and incorporates them into the universal theme of duality, >which is a constant thread throughout her work: man/woman, scale/feather, >land/sky, clarity/blind desire, old ideals/new ideals. The crux of the >song hinges on this line, I think: "The eagle and the serpent are at war in >me/The serpent fighting for blind desire, the eagle for clarity." It's >Joni coming to terms with a lot of factors in her life that seem to be >conflicting polarities, drawing inspiration from ageless philosophy to >get some kind of balance. > ... and several others took up the theme. Not mentioned: Joni, as most of us know, is a Scorpio, as is yours truly. For some purposes, each astrological sign is associated with three symbols -- or, if they're all animals, we might say "totems." I don't know what the additional ones for the other signs are, or what concept is being scaled as "low," "middle" and "high," but for Scorpio, the "low" symbol is the scorpion, the "middle" symbol is the snake (serpent) and the "high" symbol is the eagle. So, in addition to referencing the Toltec symbology, Joni was -- whether intentionally or not -- referencing two of the three aspects of her Scorpio identity. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:39:10 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: "The Drifters"-James Michener I was looking through,(I haven't read the book) "The Drifters" (from 1971),by James Michener,and I found a Joni referance.The narrator talked about the song "Michael from mountains" being one of the most beautiful songs he ever heard ,as good as a song by Schubert.he said the woman who sang the song sounded like an angel.I suppose he could be talking about Judy Collins' version,but I'll assume he meant Joni. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:43:17 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Re: "The Drifters"-James Michener SJC I read that book years, and years ago. I don't remember that referance but I did enjoy the book. Kasey I was looking through,(I haven't read the book) "The Drifters" (from 1971),by James Michener,and I found a Joni referance.The narrator talked about the song "Michael from mountains" being one of the most beautiful songs he ever heard ,as good as a song by Schubert.he said the woman who sang the song sounded like an angel.I suppose he could be talking about Judy Collins' version,but I'll assume he meant Joni. Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:54:23 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: "The Drifters"-James Michener Relayer writes: << I suppose he could be talking about Judy Collins' version,but I'll assume he meant Joni. >> In either case, it still qualifies as a Joni mention in fiction and it is featured in the Joni in Fiction section of the JMDL. Keep reading, Relayer, and let us know if you come across any other references! Thanks, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:49:00 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: RE: Gluten free cooking - success! (and porridge) NJC Smurphy wrote: "But Lieve, Ethel is dead! Beware of shoddy imitations (or imitators)! " Hihihi! Bob, you've made me laugh so often, but this time I really don't know if you're serious or not! I may have lost my marbles, but I DO know that Ethel has passed away - or rather, she is living in some people near to us! Oh right, DOH!, could they be the shoddy imitators you're referring to - NOOO!! :-) Language, dear! My choice of words was deliberate: I said I was going to see "an Ethel Merman show" which is not the same as "going to see Ethel Merman" - SEE? It's actually called "Everything the Traffic Will Allow" and stars a certain Klea Blackhurst whom I've never before heard of, but I trust I'll hear a lot of her on Saturday and then I'll let you know! You also said: "Hannah also said something I thought was very funny. She called her husband and me her "parentheses." When I asked what she meant, she said, "Well, Bob, you were the first man I ever slept with and he'll be the last!" " Yes, that's really good, almost something for a screen script. Isn't that typical, you being more consistent in the degree of wit of your bed partners than their gender! lol... Made me think, I guess not many of us are ever in that position, having an evening out with both our parentheses - and it could so easily turn out scary or claustrophobic! Moving on swiftly, Lieve. ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:04:53 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: February 9 - njc Kate asks: << can you imagine being dubbed folk-rock's ethel!?!?!?!?!? >> And can YOU imagine *being* Ethel Merman trapped in a middle-aged man's body? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:34:12 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Gluten free cooking - success! (and porridge) NJC Lieve the Lexicon Lecturer writes: << Language, dear! My choice of words was deliberate: I said I was going to see "an Ethel Merman show" which is not the same as "going to see Ethel Merman" - SEE? >> Hmm. If I said I was going to see a "Joni Mitchell show" would you assume I was seeing an imitator? Where did you learn to speak English, anyway? England? ;-) << Isn't that typical, you being more consistent in the degree of wit of your bed partners than their gender! >> Yes, Lieve, many of my bed partners have enjoyed hearty laughs! ;-( << Made me think, I guess not many of us are ever in that position, having an evening out with both our parentheses - and it could so easily turn out scary or claustrophobic! >> Lieve, these two are so *evoled* they make the rest of us look like rock-wielding Neanderthals. The first and last time I met Hannah's husband was about 5 years ago at the Seattle airport. (I was arriving as they were hurrying to catch a plane to New Zealand to spend a few months teaching massage therapy to a Maori tribe.) Introducing us, Hannah turned to her husband and said, "You've always said I'm a good lover. Well, here's the man who taught me everything I know!" While I blushed crimson, he shook my hand enthusiastically! (I love this story!) --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:43:08 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Circumcision, njc Laurent wrote: >If none of the "victims" ever complained, and many say they're happy with it,< Just my 2 cents on the subject: Laurent, I'm one of the "victims" and I've never complained, and looking back, all in all I'm happy with my parents decision. I don't remember it happening, so I can't remember the pain. I would not associate this procedure with child abuse, but that's my opinion. I agree that it's unnecessary, and if I had a son, I wouldn't have him circumcised. This is American mentality, but my parents didn't have this done to me for religious reasons. They had it done because it was the *normal* thing to do (for the baby boomer generation especially). I'm happy it was done, cause I can still remember the psychological abuse that one or two boys received from other kids in 7th grade phys-ed class. 12 year old boys can be mean, and I think of how those 2 boys were terrorized just because they were *different*. Perhaps it's not a good reason to be happy, but when you're 12 you want to "fit" in. I don't think this is the case now days. Many of my friends have chosen not to have their sons circumcised, so hopefully the junior high locker room teasing has stopped. Jimmy (who's doctor accidentally used pinking shears, so I have a frilly dilly :~) ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:51:26 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: February 9 - njc HEY! I don't have a middle-aged man's body! Far from it baby - you oughta know that! Peace, Susan (who once though better of dating a woman solely because her name was Ethel!) - --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Kate asks: > > << can you imagine being dubbed folk-rock's ethel!?!?!?!?!? >> > > And can YOU imagine *being* Ethel Merman trapped in a middle-aged man's body? > > --Bob Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:59:47 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: February 9 - njc "Golden Eggs" writes: << HEY! I don't have a middle-aged man's body! Far from it baby - you oughta know that! >> You can have this middle-aged man's body anytime you want to make our own little Ethel or Ethan! XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:05:50 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: NJC Two great articles on war sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > > ... that's one good > example of why objectivity in journalism is virtually impossible, > whether it's a report or something on the editorial pages. Not objective on the editorial pages? Of course not! Your comment makes me wonder what you mean by the word editorial. (It wouldn't be the first time there's a different understanding of the same "English" word here.) To me an editorial is the opinion of an editor (or group of editors) and so by definition, there's no attempt to be objective. The editorial pages are designated as such and unusually include columnists' opinions, which also by definition are not attempting to be objective. The same convention is followed in the online publications of mainstream newspapers. My education in journalism was years ago so I'd expect some updating of what I learned. However, I can look at any current paper or watch any newscast and see that the same basic structure is in place. Perhaps such press conventions are used only in the U.S., although I have seen "editorial/commentary pages" in non-U.S. papers also. > As an example, the National Post newspaper (which is pro-Israel) > might say in its reports: "Palestinian terrorists last night... > ...the CBC (which is more pro-Palestinian) might say: > "Palestinian militiamen... Excellent example. That's why it's important to know the source of information. A paper or station doesn't usually announce its political bias, so it's mostly through paying critical attention to the way words are used (in *many* reports from that source, not just one) that a person can figure out its general bias. It doesn't completely discredit the information. But it is important to keep that bias in mind when evaluating any information from any particular source. > It's hard if not impossible to write a brief news report about a > complex political issue without these subtexts and loaded words, so I > would say objectivity in reporting is close to impossible. The best > you can hope for IMO is to be fair. I don't know what you mean by fair unless it's trying to equally show all sides of any situation. To me that's the same as aiming for objectivity, which, I agree, is close to impossible. Some people and publications/news sources do aim for it more than others, though. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 18:04:08 +0000 From: colin Subject: would you believe NJC Now the intial hoo ha is over, the reality of things has settled in. Who'd havethought the lack of the use of a left hand would casue so much trouble and expense! I have had to book 3 dogs in to a parlour to be bathed and groomed. NO ONE has ever touched my dogs' coats before. I will have to have someone in to clean up. I will have to make sure I have plenty of deodourant. And to top all that, I shall have to eat Hagen Daaz tonight... thank god I can still use my machines-I'd really be upset if i couldn.'t...i might just be forced to circumcise someone..... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:04:12 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Circumcision, njc Jimmy writes: << (who's doctor accidentally used pinking shears, so I have a frilly dilly :~) ) >> LOL!!! And considering some of my posts today, I think my doctor must have used a 'switch' blade! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 18:05:27 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: RE: Gluten free cooking - success! (and porridge) NJC Master Murphy is turning Mean and Making Me Miserable!!! See, I assumed you would understand that Words without Knowledge don't work! So my knowledge of Miss Mitchell being alive, ensures my correct interpretation. On the other hand, if you said you were going to a Shakespeare festival, I would Know that the bard wasn't going to attend in person... And then you really put the knife in, asking me where I learned English. Oooooh, that hurts! The truth is: from Beatles songs, the Flintstones (Wilma! OPEN THE DOOOOR!) and Bonanza. Then I bought a dictionary and borrowed Graham Greene's "A Gun for Sale" (because it was the thinnest English book in the library) and see where it got me: public humiliation in front of potentially a worldwide public by the Master, the Man I trusted... Shuffling away forlornly, Lieve no Longer Lovely. -----Original Message----- From: Murphycopy@aol.com [SMTP:Murphycopy@aol.com] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 5:34 PM To: ReckersL@ebrd.com; Murphycopy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Gluten free cooking - success! (and porridge) NJC Lieve the Lexicon Lecturer writes: << Language, dear! My choice of words was deliberate: I said I was going to see "an Ethel Merman show" which is not the same as "going to see Ethel Merman" - SEE? >> Hmm. If I said I was going to see a "Joni Mitchell show" would you assume I was seeing an imitator? Where did you learn to speak English, anyway? England? ;-) << Isn't that typical, you being more consistent in the degree of wit of your bed partners than their gender! >> Yes, Lieve, many of my bed partners have enjoyed hearty laughs! ;-( << Made me think, I guess not many of us are ever in that position, having an evening out with both our parentheses - and it could so easily turn out scary or claustrophobic! >> Lieve, these two are so *evoled* they make the rest of us look like rock-wielding Neanderthals. The first and last time I met Hannah's husband was about 5 years ago at the Seattle airport. (I was arriving as they were hurrying to catch a plane to New Zealand to spend a few months teaching massage therapy to a Maori tribe.) Introducing us, Hannah turned to her husband and said, "You've always said I'm a good lover. Well, here's the man who taught me everything I know!" While I blushed crimson, he shook my hand enthusiastically! (I love this story!) --Bob EBRD SECURITY NOTICE This email has been virus scanned ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:13:25 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: February 9 - njc Not really sure I want to sacrifice my "girlish" figure for a little Ethel or Ethan - hmmm - rethinking the childbirth thing. What the heck - Bring it on Daddio! Peace G. E. Guzzi - --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > "Golden Eggs" writes: > > << HEY! I don't have a middle-aged man's body! Far from it baby - you > oughta know that! >> > > You can have this middle-aged man's body anytime you want to make our own > little Ethel or Ethan! > > XO, > > --Bob Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:16:27 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: NJC Two great articles on war Correction to my last message: > The editorial pages are designated as such and unusually > include columnists' opinions, which also by definition > are not attempting to be objective. Of course, the word I meant is "usually" include columnists'... I thought that word looked unusually long and then I passed right by it before sending. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:17:03 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Boys play Girls, Hugh's Room, Toronto - sjc I just got my weekly e-mail from Hugh's Room (folk club in Toronto) and there's something posted for Sat Feb 15 called "Boys Play Girls", notable for the one I've marked with **these things** below: " Joey Wright as Lucinda Williams Dug Paisley as Gillian Welch Kurt Swinghammer as Laura Nyro Melwood Cutlery as Diana Ross Liam Titcomb as Katherine Wheatley **The Supers as Joni Mitchell** Blair Packham as... stay tuned Wendell Ferguson as... stay tuned" Of course, I have no idea who the Supers are, nor for that matter, who any of these other people are (the "boys" that is) but it's only $10 and of course I know who Joni Mitchell is. Apparently it takes more than one "boy" to equal one Joni Mitchell too. This info can be found at http://www.hughsroom.com> Any Torontoises interested in going to this? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:22:53 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Circumcision, njc Jimmy wrote: I'm happy it was done, cause I can still remember the psychological abuse that one or two boys received from other kids in 7th grade phys-ed class. 12 year old boys can be mean, and I think of how those 2 boys were terrorized just because they were *different*. Perhaps it's not a good reason to be happy, but when you're 12 you want to "fit" in. I can relate to this. In France where only jews are circumcised (perhaps muslims too but there were none in my school) I was the different one in the locker room. Also, I know a guy here whose mother is jewish and was hiding during WW2. She chose not to have him circumcised in case history repeats himself. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 13:23:15 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: would you believe NJC --- colin wrote: > > It all sounded like something that could be coped with until you got to this: > And to top all that, I shall have to eat Hagen Daaz > tonight... THAT is far too much of a burden for anyone to bear! Give me your address and I'll be right over to help you out with that, you poor boy you! > thank god I can still use my machines-I'd really be > upset if i > couldn.'t...i might just be forced to circumcise someone..... I'm so glad YOU brought that up first. I was going to crack wise about somebody's finger having been circumcised, but wasn't sure how well that might go over! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:21:29 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Circumcision, njc Laurent Olszer wrote: > My point is this: this so-called "crime" has been performed millions of > times. > If none of the "victims" ever complained, and many say they're happy with > it, > then perhaps the "crime" wasn't really one, wouldn't you say? I'm resending part of my last post on the subject, since you apparently ignored it the first time and won't let go of the mistaken notion that no one but Colin objects to circumcision. There are a number of organizations that challenge the popular notion of circumcision. There largest is called NOCIRC, and has 110 chapters worldwide. http://www.nocirc.org/ http://www.uvm.edu/~gdavis/nocirc/media.htm (shows a baby with arms and legs strapped to a table awaiting the procedure) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #104 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)