From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #102 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, February 9 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 102 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NJC North Korea and U.S Strategy ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC If not war, what can be done? PC and NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Today's Library Links: February 9 ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni covers benefit charity, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: So much for the Aussie Bootlegger... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] re: : queen's concert/brian wilson/etc/ NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: breaking news NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: NJC North Korea and U.S Strategy ["Lori Fye" ] Re: So much for the Aussie Bootlegger... [Catherine McKay ] Re: DJRD - Help!! [Little Bird ] re: "chelsea morning" and "the house for unwed mothers" ["mia ortlieb" ] re: : queen's concert/brian wilson/etc/ NJC [Susan Guzzi ] RE: breaking news NJC/veteransforcommonsense ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: DJRD - Help!! ["ron" ] Re: NJC Rediscovering your own country njc [Catherine McKay ] circumcision, njc ["Marianne Rizzo" ] RE: NJC objectivity in journalism ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: njc another view [Randy Remote ] Re: breaking news NJC ["kasey simpson" ] Re: NJC Rediscovering your own country ["kasey simpson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 00:54:46 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NJC North Korea and U.S Strategy Gill (in Madrid) quoted moveon.org >>With China's economy growing at seven percent, it is only a matter of time before it dwarfs Japan in power and strategic influence.<< my husband whose work has been as much with chinese companies as usa companies is always talking about how huge an economic power china is becoming.... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 00:55:07 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC If not war, what can be done? PC and NJC >>my feeling is it will do the opposite of what we want. it will INCREASE terrorism rather than decrease it. << there are many others (with experience in the military, national government, drs of political science) who say the same thing.. >>I find it interesting that, in general, the people most adamant about waging this all-out bombing war, and letting it be known here and in letters to the editor of various papers and magazines, do not live in a place that is a likely target.<< not to mention most of those who are leading us to war have never personally had military or battle experience...how bizarre is that? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 01:12:30 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: breaking news NJC david wrote >>How does this avoid war when the US has already decided to invade regardless of what the UN does?>> did you read the article? i think some of the answers are in there, but more remains to be seen when they announce the plan next week...but if there are un inspectors in iraq, it would be hard for the usa to actually attack...plus 'project mirage' as it is called, has integrated the fact that the usa already has troops at the border... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 01:23:01 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Today's Library Links: February 9 >>1974: "Folk-Rock's Ethel Merman" - New York Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=875<< lol, susan!, bob!, kay! so THIS was your inspiration! can you imagine being dubbed folk-rock's ethel!?!?!?!?!? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 04:30:26 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Joni covers benefit charity, njc "PazFest" was known to many of us as the JoniFest in New Orleans in 2000. The days before and after were kind of a multi-day JMDL event that culminated with New Orleans musicians doing a salute to Joni with many JMDLers thrown in for good measure as a fundraiser for the Ruth Paz Foundation. http://www.jmdl.com/jonifest/jfno2000.cfm This thing was a wonderful tribute concert. Forget Elvis Costello! Check this out! You like chick singers? Check out Susan Cowsill. You want to hear a monster play a Greek hybrid of guitar and mandolin called a bouzouki? Check out Beth Patterson. You want a rip-roaring, wildly inventive, fun, and tasty spin on Joni? Check out the headliners, the Bryan Thomas Band. Those of us who were there will never, ever forget it. Those of us who weren't have a chance to catch a whiff of the excitement. "PazFest", a 2 CD set. Catch it while you can. Lama ps, I need a ruling from the njc community. A 2 CD set of Joni Covers is Joni Content or not? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 05:13:59 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: Joni in Print, was "Gift list for the Joni Fan on your list, *LONG*" In a message dated 2/8/2003 1:25:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, Freddyb4@aol.com writes: > Books about or by Joni - are any outstanding "Must Haves ??" Freddy, here's a re-posting from November 28th, 2002 *************************** Lama's annual overview ========================= This isn't exhaustive but someone may want to stick this up on the refrigerator or something......... ========================= Books ========================= "Shadows and Light: Joni Mitchell The Definitive Biography", available from http://www.amazon.co.uk "voices: The Work of Joni Mitchell", available from http://www.mendel.ca/shop/ They also have a really cool poster from the exhibit that they're practically giving away. "Joni Mitchell: The Complete Poems and Lyrics", doesn't have any poems in it but it DOES slavishly reproduced one typo after another from the album's printed lyrics. Sample lyric: "Buoy winds pushed them face down in the snow." If you still want it, it's available from http://www.amazon.com How come all of these books so far have subtitles? Hmmmm. Maybe you wondered what she meant in the liner notes of 'The Hissing Of Summer Lawns' when she wrote, "This record is a total work conceived graphically, musically, lyrically and accidentally- as a whole. It's not my intention to unravel that mystery for anyone but rather to offer some additional clues." Here's another BIG HINT: "National Geographic Magazine", February 1975, beginning on page 270. "Architectural Digest", July/August 1976. Beginning on page 72, there are six pages of pictures and text from the Bel Air home of a pretty good singer-songwriter. Not bad. Especially for a girl. [I'm not serious] "downbeat magazine" August 9th, 1979 This is the issue (that I don't have yet!) in which Leonard Feather soundly praises "Mingus". Mister Feather figured that "Mingus" deserved 5 stars out of a possible 5 stars. [Class, don't be surprised if you see this material again very soon.] Will somebody PLEASE give Joni a copy of this the next time they see her dining alfresco? Let's review what Mister Feather said: *****. Five stars. 5. 1-2-3-4-5. Okay? How can I buy one of these back issues? ========================= Videos ========================= "Painting With Words and Music", available on VHS Hi-Fi and DVD from http://www.amazon.com "Shadows and Light", (1980) in its unedited edition (including the skating video) available on region-free DVD from a guy in Hong Kong who lists auctions on www.ebay.com "Come In From The Cold" video 45 minutes, 1991 "Refuge Of The Roads" about 55 minutes, 1980 ========================= Audio ========================= 8-Track: out of print but available on www.ebay.com Cassette: out of print but available on www.ebay.com CD: There are 22 now if you count 'hits' and 'misses' and don't count the singles or remixes. Every last one of them is currently available brand new in the USA. This is a pretty nice situation so the next time Joni feels under appreciated, remind her that her *ENTIRE* catalog has not been cut-out. Here are the official releases: Song To A Seagull Clouds Ladies of the Canyon Blue For The Roses Court and Spark Miles Of Aisles The Hissing Of Summer Lawns Hejira Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Mingus Shadows and Light Wild Things Run Fast Dog Eat Dog Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm Night Ride Home Turbulent Indigo hits misses Taming The Tiger Both Sides Now Travelogue http://jonimitchell.com/jonidiscography.html The covers and release dates are: http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/ ========================= High Res Audio ========================= CDs in the HDCD editions: If I recall, everything through "hits" and "misses" has been re-issued using the HDCD compression scheme. I don't know anyone who can decode them correctly but at least they used great equipment when they mastered them. DVD-Audio: This format, which will probably die a grisly death like the Elcaset, now offers one Joni title: "Both Sides Now". No other titles are available as far as I know of. LPs: You need a level shelf, clean records, and hideously expensive equipment, but the white-label promo editions and Japanese pressings (with "Obi") of the piano-driven and unproduced records breathe more like a person on an acoustic instrument, in my admittedly pompous opinion. (Obligatory: "This vain man wishes to seem wise.") I have a MFSL 1/2 speed mastered version of "Court and Spark" but by then the layers of production hampered the clarity. I think there are some Quinex II pressings of "Wild Things Run Fast" but my regular copy is exceptional anyway. Two review questions: 1. Who loves you guys? 2. In his review for the Jazz world's "Downbeat Magazine", how many stars, out of 5 possible, did Leonard Feather give the "MINGUS" album? Class? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 05:19:51 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: welfare, grants and housing (njc) I'd sooner see the defense budget cut than cut Space. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this topic. I just can't fathom why we're going ahead with building a missile shield when it's proven a failure over and over and over already. My advice: "Let it *GO*, assh*les!" Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 12:44:53 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: NJC Gluten free cooking - success! My thanks to all that commented on gluten free cooking, ingredients, and so on. I had been a bit depressed at my local store's lack of gluten free ingredients, and was fearing that I wasn't going to find some of my staple cooking ingredients to use when cooking for my gluten free friend. However, his local store had a much greater selection, and I'm now a lot more confident that I can cater gluten free now I've found the right store to get decent ingredients. All the while making stuff taste pretty good (in my opinion!), and also being pretty low fat about it to boot. Certainly the rate at which last night's Shepherd's Pie got polished off seems to indicate that this is so :) So, for anyone that's interested, I humbly present a recipe for not-so-traditional Shepherd's Pie. Fry garlic, onion and herbs for a few minutes, add bacon, then beef mince. Continue to cook until mince is cooked through. Then add tomato puree, soy sauce, brown (fruit) sauce, and a smattering of red thai curry paste for a bit of zing. Balance the heat using a touch of sugar or honey. Then we're back on the straight (ha!) and narrow, with mashed potato on top, in the oven for an hour or so at 200C ish. Finish off with a sprinkle of cheese on top under a grill. (Sorry: I can't list amounts of ingredients used, because I don't work like that. I just tip stuff in until it looks/tastes right.) Serve. Serve second helpings... Belch. Fall asleep. :) Having said all that, I have discovered one thing I cannot cook to save my life: porridge. Although why anyone would actually want porridge is beyond me, but hey, there's nowt so queer as folk, as they say over here. - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 08:16:09 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: So much for the Aussie Bootlegger... In a message dated 2/8/2003 10:53:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, grizzlybear3au@yahoo.com writes: > And, anyway, the wonders of > ebay are a mystery to me. Believe it or not, I've > never been there. > Of course I was just having a bit of fun with you, ya grizzly ol' Wombat. Thanks to a trade we made a long time ago, I decided to start collecting covers of Joni songs, so thanks for the inspiration! And here's another thought about E-bay, bootlegs, etc. Isn't it really WORSE in theory if someone sells one of Joni's current in-print CD's on E-bay as opposed to a bootleg, or a CDR of a live show? Think about it - Joni gets no revenues whatsoever from the bootlegs, regardless of how they're exchanged; sale, blanks/postage, whatever. But if I buy a factory cd from E-bay, she gets no royalties whereas she would have had I purchased it in a store or online or some such. I guess the question is whether the person who buys the bootleg is someone who is buying it INSTEAD OF an officially released recording. Interesting stuff to ponder for a Sunday morning... Bob NP: Joni, "Dr. Junk" (I wonder if that dentist in Fayetteville NC is still around?) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 14:21:23 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: re: : queen's concert/brian wilson/etc/ NJC >>I'm sure this has been discussed here before, but...it made me consider the cover versions of songs that totally redefined the originals; almost eclipsing them. I think Cocker's arrangement of the Beatles tune certainly did that. As well as Hendrix's All Along the Watchtower. Maybe CSNY's Woodstock fits this category, too. I've been trying to think of more...any other thoughts out there?<< Off the top of my head I would say Patti Smith's version of 'Because the Night' and Eric Clapton's version of 'Cocaine'. mike in bcn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 14:34:13 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Saving the Jews NJC As fate would have it, I have watched two films this week dealing with the above topic. To be sure, two very different films, the first, 'Charlotte Grey' was more a WWII love story with a little subplot about saving two Jewish children from being 'sent away' from the French village where they were living. The second film is called 'Amen' and is directed by Constantin Costa-Gavras. It deals with two people, a Catholic priest and a Waffen SS officer who together try to get the Pope to denounce the mass deportation and extermination of Jews. This was discussed here lately (on the list) and I wonder whether the protagonists of that debate (step forward Vince and Laurent) have seen the film or would like to. I'll try to look up the digests to see again what was said about the Pope's inactivity or otherwise in that matter. The film is in English but with French, German and Rumanian actors and crew. It's very interesting I think and well worth a look for those interested in the theme. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 06:46:40 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: breaking news NJC Thanks for the info, Kate! Started my day with a smile ... This looks like an organization that may be worth joining (and you don't have to be a veteran to do so): > http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/article.asp?id=373 Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 07:01:16 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: NJC North Korea and U.S Strategy Thanks Gill, for the link to the article. I'll be paying close attention to the Bushies, who may actually be onto something ... > A perceived North Korean threat is necessary to justify building the > Theater Missile Defense (TMD) system, intended to counter China's > growing military and political power. With China's economy growing at > seven percent, it is only a matter of time before it dwarfs Japan in > power and strategic influence. This worries sectors of Japan's > government ... although I still believe Bush, et al, are too quick to jump to military solutions and too slow to engage in diplomatic talks. > http://www.yellowtimes.org/article.php?sid=920 Lori, whose "mother-in-law" was a little girl in Tokyo during WWII ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 07:29:30 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: DJRD - Help!! Hi the title track DJRD whats it all about??? much as i love the song i really dont understand it.... ron np - world cup cricket ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 10:04:22 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: So much for the Aussie Bootlegger... --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > And here's another thought about E-bay, bootlegs, > etc. Isn't it really WORSE > in theory if someone sells one of Joni's current > in-print CD's on E-bay as > opposed to a bootleg, or a CDR of a live show? Think > about it - Joni gets no > revenues whatsoever from the bootlegs, regardless of > how they're exchanged; > sale, blanks/postage, whatever. But if I buy a > factory cd from E-bay, she > gets no royalties whereas she would have had I > purchased it in a store or > online or some such. Why would anyone want to buy one this way? Because they might get it a bit cheaper than buying it in a store? But then when you add postage and so on, isn't it going to be about what you'd pay if you just went and bought one at a store? It seems a bit labour-intensive and a convoluted way of doing things, but then, human nature is just a teensy bit screwy sometimes, innit? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 15:36:28 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC Gluten free cooking - success! Chris Marshall wrote: > > > Having said all that, I have discovered one thing I > cannot cook to save my life: porridge. the trick is to cook it over a very low heat. > but > hey, there's nowt so queer as folk, you speak for yourself! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 15:38:23 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Saving the Jews NJC mike pritchard wrote: >As fate would have it, I have watched two films this week dealing with the >above topic. To be sure, two very different films, the first, 'Charlotte Grey' >was more a WWII love story with a little subplot about saving two Jewish >children from being 'sent away' from the French village where they were >living. > I saw this and thought it excelelnt. cate Blanchett is a very talented actor and also very beautiful Seen her in Elizabeth, and The Gift also. Haven't seent he second film. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 08:45:30 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: DJRD - Help!! Asking what the song DJRD is about is sort of like asking, "What's life about?" It's a very complex song with a lot of references to the books of Carlos Castaneda, a Mexican philopsher/poet/writer who theorizes about life, knowledge and self discovery. One of the "characters" in his books is a real-life mystic named Don Juan who teaches the ancient philosophies of the Toltec Indians. The eagle and serpent imagery are derived from these ancient teachings. Joni, of course, being a huge fan of Aboriginal philosophies, takes these teachings and incorporates them into the universal theme of duality, which is a constant thread throughout her work: man/woman, scale/feather, land/sky, clarity/blind desire, old ideals/new ideals. The crux of the song hinges on this line, I think: "The eagle and the serpent are at war in me/The serpent fighting for blind desire, the eagle for clarity." It's Joni coming to terms with a lot of factors in her life that seem to be conflicting polarities, drawing inspiration from ageless philosophy to get some kind of balance. This song is a huge undertaking as far as analysis goes. I'm sure an entire book could be written about this song. But this will give you some pointers, anyway. Just listen to it and let the pieces come together for you. This song works best on a subconscious level, I find. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 10:48:38 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: "chelsea morning" and "the house for unwed mothers" Kate wrote: <> That may be true as well. Perhaps Joni was using the imagery of the stained-glass windows from the church/house where she stayed as a young mother when she wrote "Chelsea Morning" later in New York City. Many of Joni's stories may not be true word for word, but the emotional inspiration behind the songs seem to be true. Joni may have rescued the stain-glassed windows by bringing them to life in her song. In the song "Morning Morgantown" she also sings about "I'd like to buy you everything.....A window full of colored rings". Mia NP: Tory Amos - A Sorta Fairytale _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 17:40:25 -0000 From: "Eryl B Davies" Subject: Re: NJC If not war, what can be done? PC and NJC colin wrote: >even if this war is going to be fought for the 'right reasons', my >feeling is it will do the opposite of what we want. it will INCREASE >terrorism rather than decrease it. I hope I am mistaken but I can't >really see a different result. Hear, Hear, Just like trying to deal with a wasp's nest by beating it with a big stick. Eryl ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 13:01:03 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: So much for the Aussie Bootlegger... In a message dated 2/9/2003 10:04:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: > But then when you add postage and so on, isn't > it going to be about what you'd pay if you just went > and bought one at a store? Well heavens no, Catherine...not only can it be cheaper, it can be much more convenient. Especially with older cd's that aren't burning up the charts, it's not unusual to snag a CD delivered to your door for under ten bucks. It can be an effective way to upgrade an older record to CD, or a cheap way to hear a less than famous artist. And if you don't care for it you can turn around and re-sell it and get most of your investment back! And if you use Paypal, the transaction is mere clicks on the computer as opposed to heading out to the store. But don't get me wrong...I DO love my local CD shop! It's just that when you have to feed a habit like mine, every little bit helps. :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 10:35:18 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: DJRD - Help!! One additional clue for you, Ron, is that it was written long before DJRD was released. It was "part 2" of Coyote from Hejira. It didn't fit the pattern of the album so she relegated it to her next release, which was of course DJRD. Maybe give Coyote a listen first and then play DJRD right after. It yields some interesting connections. Also, surf the net for some reviews of the album - there may be some additional analysis out there. One of the most baffling lines to me is: "But didn't I see a neon sign fester on your hotel blind And a country road come off the wall And swoop down on the crowd at the bar And put me at the top of your danger list Just for being so much like you are." Now that's a head scratcher. Obviously it's some small little detail of Joni's observations that has been broadened to encompass a more universal theme. I've thought that maybe the "country road on the wall" was a painting whose allure is so captivating to the crowd at the bar that they wish they could travel it - that yearning to travel that Joni examined so intensely during the '76/'77 period. I don't know. It's a wonderful song to discuss! - -Andrew ron wrote:hi >>>>>andrew wrote: >>>>>The crux of the song hinges on this line, I think: "The eagle and the serpent are at war in me/The serpent fighting or blind desire, the eagle for clarity." thanks. i must admit im only familiar with the name "carlos castaneda" and with the fact that he is/was(??) a writer. i do get the line quoted above which just kinda jumps out of the whole song the balance and continual struggle between clear rational thought, and blind unreasoning passion and desire. a balance and struggle which i believe joni handles abnormally well, with her ability to capture and summarise emotions and passions in a crisp, concise way , enabling people who "get" her music to understand themselves, and others better. >>>>>This song works best on a subconscious level, I find. so true. i absolutely love this song. but hardly understand anything about it other than the line above. the eagle and the serpent fighting in the individual, fighting in the culture. appearing in strange, & unexpected places. a basic attribute of mankind, driving him without him being at all aware of it. ive been spending quite a bit of time today reading & re reading the lyrics, & listening & relistening to the song. does anyone know anything about the writing process of this song? it comes across to me as a powerful stream of consciousness writing pouring out of the depths of her heart, rather than a long slow deliberate exercise. get a grip on this song & you get a grip on joni. obviously no easy task :-) ron Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 10:51:35 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: re: : queen's concert/brian wilson/etc/ NJC I like this thread! Patti Smith comes to mind again with "Gloria" and Joe Cocker with Leon RUssell's "Delta Lady" - although I dig Leon's version as well. And as it is playing right now through my apartment, Phoebe Snow doing Paul Simon's "Something So Right" for me anyway, surpasses Simon's own version. I also kind of dig that Mitchell girl's version of "Twisted." And you know there may be more. Oh yeah there is, Eva Cassidy doing Sting's "Fields of Gold." Peace, Susan Mike in BCN wrote: > Off the top of my head I would say Patti Smith's version of 'Because the > Night' and Eric Clapton's version of 'Cocaine'. > > mike in bcn Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 18:56:02 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: NJC Rediscovering your own country Complete off-topic this, but I thought I'd share just this brief experience, and photos, with you all. I've been visiting a friend of mine on the UK south coast of the UK a few times of late, usually spending a couple of nights down there to make a nice little weekend away now and again. (Hence the gluten-free question in another thread...) Said friend's work commitments usually mean that I've got the daytime to myself at some point, so hence I'm forced to get out and "do stuff", rather than just lounging around. So I've been taking the opportunities to go and look at various interesting places in the vicinity. Yesterday, I took myself off to Bodiam Castle, and found the whole thing a really useful experience, despite only being there for half an hour (the castle itself was shut, so I couldn't get inside). The point is this: I've found it easy to get very disenchanted with one's own country, to get blinded by politics, people (of the stupid, en-masse kind), dreadful transport infrastructure, and so on. Getting out there, seeing new places, and realising how much this country has to offer in terms of history and places to explore has been a really cool experience - a reminder that there's so much to be grateful for, so much stuff on the doorstep that's completely fascinating. I now find myself staring at the map, lining up a plan of exploration for the next trip. (Hastings Castle and Battle Abbey next - nipping back in time almost a thousand years - 1066 and all that.) As an aside, I took some pictures of the castle, and a couple of the surrounding countryside, which are up on my gallery web site, found here:- http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/ view_album.php?set_albumName=album22&page=1 (Alternatively, if the link gets mashed, go to http://www.hatstand.org/gallery and navigate through people and places, then to Bodiam Castle) So, to finish, a question. What's refreshed your enthusiasm for your own country, when you've been through a period of being down on the place. I don't mean a can-do attitude, politics, people, cities, or stuff like that, rather, its history, geography, vistas, and so on. I'll be taking notes for places to visit :-) - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "A dream that you tell no one but the grey sea" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 10:55:41 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: breaking news NJC/veteransforcommonsense lori wrote >>This looks like an organization that may be worth joining (and you don't have to be a veteran to do so):> http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/article.asp?id=373<< yes, i'm very impressed with this org (which is why i posted the story via their link rather than straight to the abc news site)...i am glad to know you don't have to be a veteran to join...i think it is a great way for veterans to gather & voice their stories & concerns... this reminds me of one of my most poignant experiences in college or anywhere really- i took what was commonly known as the 'vietnam class' which was actually part of the religious studies program at ucsb...at the time i was enrolled, the teacher/facilitor was walter capps who later became a congressman in washington... here is a link to a brief overview of capps & the tremendous impact of this class- http://www.cappscenter.ucsb.edu/about_wc.html anyway, the class was simply astounding...one, if not THE, most popular classes on campus & as such very hard to get into...it took place several times a week in one of the largest lecture halls...actually a performance theatre with 900 capacity & always filled... but during the class you could always hear a pin drop... veteran's & others with vietnam experience would get up each week & tell their personal stories...(many of them for the first time in their lives in public) about their time in vietnam ...i generally walked out of that class in tears & always in a very altered state...i was fortunate to be in the class when governor bob kerry (vietnam vet who lost his leg in the war) was guest lecturer for the quarter & told his personal story...(btw, i think he had just recently broken up with debra winger if anyone recalls that era) that quarter we also were visited by ed bradley & 60 minutes (which used some of the class in a broadcast)...bradley got up & spoke in a way he never had before, just as so many veterans, nurses & vietnamese refugees, etc before him had & he told of his personal experience in vietnam including the details of being one of the last americans to leave (he was covering the fall of vietnam at the time)... well you get the picture...a life changing experience this class was for all involved, on stage or in the audience... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:04:28 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Fw: DJRD - Help!! - ----- Original Message ----- From: ron To: Little Bird ; joni@smoe.com Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2000 10:51 AM Subject: Re: DJRD - Help!! hi >>>>>andrew wrote: >>>>>The crux of the song hinges on this line, I think: "The eagle and the serpent are at war in me/The serpent fighting or blind desire, the eagle for clarity." thanks. i must admit im only familiar with the name "carlos castaneda" and with the fact that he is/was(??) a writer. i do get the line quoted above which just kinda jumps out of the whole song the balance and continual struggle between clear rational thought, and blind unreasoning passion and desire. a balance and struggle which i believe joni handles abnormally well, with her ability to capture and summarise emotions and passions in a crisp, concise way , enabling people who "get" her music to understand themselves, and others better. >>>>>This song works best on a subconscious level, I find. so true. i absolutely love this song. but hardly understand anything about it other than the line above. the eagle and the serpent fighting in the individual, fighting in the culture. appearing in strange, & unexpected places. a basic attribute of mankind, driving him without him being at all aware of it. ive been spending quite a bit of time today reading & re reading the lyrics, & listening & relistening to the song. does anyone know anything about the writing process of this song? it comes across to me as a powerful stream of consciousness writing pouring out of the depths of her heart, rather than a long slow deliberate exercise. get a grip on this song & you get a grip on joni. obviously no easy task :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:05:39 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: DJRD - Help!! hi andrew >>>>One additional clue for you, Ron, is that it was written long before DJRD was released. It was "part 2" of Coyote from Hejira. It didn't fit the pattern of the album so she relegated it to her next release, which was of course DJRD. well it fits perfectly into djrd so thats all right innit?? perhaps the basis of the whole album with its whole questioning of american lifestyles? im glad you told me about the coyote connection. i always had the 2 songs linked in my mind because of the native american imagery - "coyote" and "serpent" & "eagle" i guess im gonna get shot down here for my next statement. i think the song is just too good for hejira!!! its too powerful, too raw, too intense, and with the wrong kind of sound. not as smooth & sophisticated as any of the tracks on hejira, but perfectly raw, innovative, and adventurous to fit in with the rest of DJRD.. btw - a truly excellent book which links american indians and music - "reservation blues" by sherman alexie is well worth a read. ron np = world cup cricket - sa losing to west indies - damn that brian lara!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 14:39:09 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Rediscovering your own country njc --- Chris Marshall wrote: > Complete off-topic this, but I thought I'd share > just this > brief experience, and photos, with you all. ... I took some pictures of the castle, and > a couple > of the surrounding countryside, which are up on my > gallery web > site, found here:- > > http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/ > view_album.php?set_albumName=album22&page=1 > > (Alternatively, if the link gets mashed, go to > http://www.hatstand.org/gallery and navigate through > people > and places, then to Bodiam Castle) > > So, to finish, a question. What's refreshed your > enthusiasm > for your own country, when you've been through a > period of > being down on the place. I don't mean a can-do > attitude, > politics, people, cities, or stuff like that, > rather, its > history, geography, vistas, and so on. OMG, Chris - now THAT is a castle! complete with moat and the whole thing. I almost expect to see a dragon. I never fail to get a chuckle out of the captions/ comments you add under your photos either - for me, that's half the fun. One of my favourite places to go that's not far from me, is a place down by the lake a short drive from where I live (Toronto). I'm not even sure what it's called - I think it's Humber Bay Park or something. They've reclaimed a lot of land, dumping chunks of concrete and bits of other crap from buildings that have been torn down, covered it all with earth, built up places for bird (of the water and land variety) and fish and butterfly habits, and a whole bunch more. You can walk out right to the end of this spit and feel like you're miles from the city, even though you can see its buildings just across the bay. No matter what season it is, or no matter what the weather, my daughter and I love to go down there and walk or stand on the rocks. There are all sorts of plants and so on and you almost always see swans - in the spring, you see cygnets as well (with the parents always keeping a very close eye on their young and looking ready to attack anyone who comes too close.) It's a cheap form of entertainment (like free! except now they charge for parking, but you can usually get away without paying, as it's all by machine and not that expensive anyway, so why be cheap?) and a good way to clear the cobwebs out of your head. I often take my camera with me because every time you go there, it looks different. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 11:53:42 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: DJRD - Help!! I absolutely agree that DJRD would not have worked on Hejira. It's far too intense for Hejira, which has a very definite mood of its own. DJRD would have stuck out like a sore thumb, even if the imagery is compatible. It's also Joni's vocals that really give it that edge and her excellent guitar playing - it's so tight and it's got such a fun rhythm. I agree that American ideals (or their disintegration) do seem to be a part of the song's message. The inclusion of lines from The Star Spangled Banner and this dandy: "Here in good old God save America, the land of the brave and the free, We are all hopelessly oppressed cowards of some duality, of restless multiplicity." She also seems to want to point out the industrialization of nature, comparing birds to planes and serpents to trains: eagles in jet trails, snakes along the railroad tracks/rivets in this eagle, boxcars on your snake. And in a beautiful little twist she reverses the natural environments of both bird and snake with this line: "Big bird dragging its tail in the dust, snake kite flying on a string." Almost as if the world has gone a bit mad with "coils around feathers and talons on scales." There is a very definite conflict going on in this song - it is, by its nature, a very restless song, which I love. As you can probably tell, it's one of my absolute favourite songs of all time. - -Andrew ron wrote:hi andrew >>>>One additional clue for you, Ron, is that it was written long before DJRD was released. It was "part 2" of Coyote from Hejira. It didn't fit the pattern of the album so she relegated it to her next release, which was of course DJRD. well it fits perfectly into djrd so thats all right innit?? perhaps the basis of the whole album with its whole questioning of american lifestyles? im glad you told me about the coyote connection. i always had the 2 songs linked in my mind because of the native american imagery - "coyote" and "serpent" & "eagle" i guess im gonna get shot down here for my next statement. i think the song is just too good for hejira!!! its too powerful, too raw, too intense, and with the wrong kind of sound. not as smooth & sophisticated as any of the tracks on hejira, but perfectly raw, innovative, and adventurous to fit in with the rest of DJRD.. btw - a truly excellent book which links american indians and music - "reservation blues" by sherman alexie is well worth a read. ron np = world cup cricket - sa losing to west indies - damn that brian lara!!!!!! Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 15:31:45 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: circumcision, njc It just seems to me that if we are born with something then it is there for a reason. . . so unless it becomes a hazzard, leave it alone. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 12:24:43 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: NJC objectivity in journalism sarah wrote >>objectivity in journalism is virtually impossible, whether it's a report or something on the editorial pages. The words you choose to describe what you see often say more about your own mind, than about the thing you're supposed to be observing.>> here's another example of something i ran across unexpectedly, that i think illustrates the point we've been discussing: "In covering the Afghanistan war, Pitts said, "I wanted to avoid the temptation to label people with terms like 'savage,' words like that, which journalists have used in the past to describe minority communities in the United States. Those words are loaded with the biases of the reporter and have no basis, and I didn't want to make the same mistake in referring to the Afghanistan people." He remembered covering a Jesse Jackson speech in a small southern church a few years ago, where the black audience was shouting vehemently as Jackson talked. "Some of my colleagues thought these people were upset and angry with Jackson, that because the people were shouting they must have disagreed and were voicing their disapproval," Pitts said. "I had to explain that in the culture of Black America, shouting was actually their sign of total agreement with what Jackson had to say. I had to bring the same sensitivity to covering the people and the war in Afghanistan." http://www.africana.com/DailyArticles/index_20020128.htm ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 12:31:35 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: njc another view vince wrote: > accept the > >Bible as absolute truth, > > > Oh, Randy, when did I say otherwise? > > I don't even accept the Bible as "absolute truth" myself. > > The confession of faith of the Lutheran confessions, which I follow, is > that the Scriptures are the norm for the faith and the life of the Church. > > When I post using Scriptural citations, it is to explain the point of > view of those of us who view the Scriptures as having authority for us. > > Have I ever once attempted to "convert" anyone, or imply that Scriptural > teachings apply to those who lie outside of the community of faith? I > think not. Rather, I have spoken in solidarity with those outside the > community when they have been assailed by religious zealots and those > who would imply judgment on those outside the Judeo-Christian faith. I > will also speak for those within a faith community who are assailed, key > word, assailed, by those who reject faith as valid. I think I have a > long record of standing with those who are outside the faith community > since I have a lot more in common with them than with the religious > zealots. > > In other words I am on your side and only post on what Scriptures say so > that you all might understand our mindset just as others explain what is > the motivation for their opinions. The day I try to say that anything > of faith is authoritative on those outside the community, please shoot me. > > Vince I wouldn't dream of it and we are certainly on the same side, and everything you said above is true. Thanks for clarifying your view- point and I apologize for anything I might have assumed regarding same. Randy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:25:12 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Re: breaking news NJC February 8, 2003 ... Breaking news: France and Germany, with the support of the Vatican, may introduce a plan to triple the number of United Nations inspectors in Iraq, and have those inspectors supported by UN troops inside Iraq. This plan, developed without consulting the U.S. government, appears intended to avert an offensive attack by the United States and United Kingdom against Iraq ... http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/article.asp?id=373 ******************************************** ******************************************** Kate, the article later states: "The magazine said the initiative could help Schroeder out of the corner he seemed to have backed himself into over Iraq, risking international isolation if he sticks to his anti-war stance but political suicide at home if he changes course. He could sell the proposal as a last-ditch bid to avert war, allowing him to swing behind any military action if Baghdad failed to go along with the plan, it said." I hope this works and war is adverted, but it reminds me of an episode of Ellen I watched. Ellen walks up to an elevator and presses the button. A man walks up after her and also presses the button. Other people come up one at a time and each press the button. Meanwhile Ellen is having a conversation in her head about all the people thinking no one else had pressed the button, and why would they keep pressing the button. Others have tried the inspections, including the US, this is a way for him (Schroeder) to get on board and save face in his country. That said, what I'm hoping will happen is Saddam will see this as his way out, allow the inspections, and say see the US is a bully. I'll take that if war can be avoided, the old sticks and stone thing. Kasey Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 16:36:33 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Re: NJC Rediscovering your own country So, to finish, a question. What's refreshed your enthusiasm for your own country, when you've been through a period of being down on the place. I don't mean a can-do attitude, politics, people, cities, or stuff like that, rather, its history, geography, vistas, and so on. I'll be taking notes for places to visit :-) - --Chris Marshall Chris, I like this question. In Ohio there are only five covered bridges left. I love going to them. I also love old cemeteries. Reading the dates 1800's and so on, it causes me to think how easy I have it compared to my forefathers. It also is a tribute to them. In 1776 we became an independent country, before our 200th birthday we walked on the moon. Not bad for a bunch of farmers, eh? Kasey Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 16:40:35 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: breaking news njc From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: breaking news NJC >How does this avoid war when the US has already decided to invade >regardless of what the UN does? Kate Bennett wrote: >February 8, 2003 > >... Breaking news: France and Germany, with the support of the Vatican, >ay >introduce a plan to triple the number of United Nations inspectors >in >Iraq, and have those inspectors supported by UN troops inside Iraq. >This >plan, developed without consulting the U.S. government, appears >intended >to avert an offensive attack by the United States and United >Kingdom >against Iraq >http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/article.asp?id=373 > I am thinking that it is a step in the right direction. . . maybe there is a divine strategy that could work. . . In the mean time, let's get working on promoting *renewable energy technologies* and start commiting our investments to some serious developments here. Where is the leader's energy policy? And also, how about we never harm or annihilate any innocent being? This being an utmost priority. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #102 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)