From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #98 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, February 7 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 098 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Condemning, njc [colin ] Re: NJC circumscision [colin ] Re: Condemning, njc [colin ] NJC Re: Was Condemning, now circumcision [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re:NJC Kakki / Lori ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Condemning, njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Queen of England and potential cuckoo in the nest NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Spotty English Teenager In Tennis Shock njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Queen of England and potential cuckoo in the nest NJC [Murphycopy@aol] Re: big yellow taxi I'm gonna call this njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC welfare [Catherine McKay ] RE: Queen of England and potential cuckoo in the nest NJC [Catherine McKa] Re: welfare, grants and housing (njc) ["kakki" ] Health insurance (njc) ["kakki" ] RE Beth Orton NJC ["ron" ] Re: NJC welfare ["kakki" ] "chelsea morning" and "the house for unwed mothers" ["mia ortlieb" Subject: Re: Condemning, njc FMYFL@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 2/6/2003 3:25:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, >colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: > > > >>However, my major concern is the no choice aspect. >> >> >> >> > >Colin, does this mean also that you do not believe in docking the tails or >ears from dogs? > dogs are somewhat different to children! However, since you asked, I believe that ear cropping is barbaric as is the declawing of cats. Both these practices are illgeal here and in the rest of the EU. Tail docking is banned in many European countries. It is not banned here, but it will be soon. I have seen a litter docked at 3 days. they did not react to it at all. There are breeds of dogs, by the nature of their work, that are better off wihtout a tail. Some breeds also have tails, that wag a great deal and they constantly damage them until they have to be removed. It is a far worse thing to do to an adult. I cannot see any justification for many breeds of dogs to have their tails removed, and certianly not in most cases, in show dogs that do not also work.(by work I mean wroking in the field etc) > I read awhile back that it was becoming more acceptable in >European dogs not to have this procedure done. Is this even true with the >show breeds? > >Jimmy, (who's 3 day old yorkie will have her tale docked tomorrow) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 22:44:28 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC circumscision Freddyb4@aol.com wrote: > anyone else care to admit to a preference. male or female > I think no pubes looks awful! On both. I also can't help bu think they look the way children do and that makes me feel yukky. > >Freddyb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 22:41:51 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Condemning, njc Randy Remote wrote: >I have read that a circumsized penis is actually more >sensitive than a 'natural' one, > not so! the glans, due to constant exposure, loses some of it's sensitivity. The glans on a forsekinned dick is much more sensitive, almost to the point of pain when touched, especially round the rim. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 17:05:32 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: NJC Re: Was Condemning, now circumcision A friend of mine was circumcised when he was in his 30s because his penis had always been too sensitive - sometimes he could hardly touch it because it hurt - and circumcision was the cure. For the first few weeks it was even worse -- he walked around with his penis tucked inside the cardboard middle of a toilet roll, although the doctor had told him not to do anything like that, and with his legs about four feet apart when he walked. He didn't see the funny side, but when any of his friends saw him during that period, we'd collapse in fits of laughter. He was a school teacher and to see him walking the corridors telling the kids to be quiet, with his legs literally spread out as far they'd go, and the kids gawping at him wondering what on earth was wrong with him - it was precious. But over time it became less sensitive and he was able to "use" it properly. Sarah At 10:41 PM +0000 02/06/2003, colin wrote: >>Randy Remote wrote: >>I have read that a circumsized penis is actually more sensitive >>than a 'natural' one >At 10:41 PM +0000 02/06/2003, colin wrote: >not so! the glans, due to constant exposure, loses some of it's >sensitivity. The glans on a forsekinned dick is much more sensitive, >almost to the point of pain when touched. . . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:07:48 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re:NJC Kakki / Lori >>Welfare differs everywhere How does your welfare work, do you get your housing costs on top of the welfare,<< no but you can apply for an additional housing grant, although there is a many year wait sometimes & your choices are limited to places that will accept the amount they pay & you pay a portion of the housing costs depending on your income...i never received one of these but others i know were greatly helped by this...& they got 2 bedroom apts! >>If you have never made any welfare payments can you get welfare. << yes, welfare payments are not paid into like unemployment insurance & the other parent is legally required to pay back the welfare system if the other parent is receiving funds... >>And is all dental and medical treatment, glasses, etc free << my son's medical treatment was pretty good & mine was less so...i don't think we received any dental care or vision but there are low cost clinics for that...with medi-cal you were very limited in your choice of doctors & over the years fewer & fewer doctors accepted patients that were on welfare (in this town at least)... one physician who operated on my sons ears all of a sudden refused to see us for a followup exam (we found out when we got to the office) because he had decided to no longer accept welfare clients- he is a wealthy doctor now, this is when he was just starting out that he took us on as is often the case...anyway to be turned away again, felt shameful...then i saw a doctor several times for a ongoing knee problem & one day all of a sudden he put his hand where he shouldn't have (he was very good looking & probably got away with this often) which made me freeze up & he then abruptly told me that i should not come back to him again, that he could no longer help me! i was happy not to return but what a scumbag he was to do that & then refuse to help them anymore ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:17:55 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Condemning, njc i did not do it to my baby boy, no way! >>This barbaric custom is usually performed to babies. Does it hurt? I expect it is traumatizing to the max. There is no medical reason to do it, only cultural.<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:21:31 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Re: Queen of England and potential cuckoo in the nest NJC SEE BELOW Oh that is spooky, when I saw your comment about Pillar Boxes I thought "Mrs Dalloway" "what a lark! What a plunge" and poor old Septimus Warren Smith (or is it Jones)... Eternal stream of cnsciousness and the whole weird thing of the burbling water fountain...lost me that bit..... I tell you I had to study it in MINUTE deatil as part of my degree....... OOOOOOOOh REad "a Room of ones Own" if you want to get into Virginia!!(Woolf, that is,) Lucy - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:51 PM Subject: Re: Queen of England and potential cuckoo in the nest NJC > Lucy writes: > > << what book are you reading it sounds awfully like it must be > > > "Janet and John post a letter"... >> > > No, and it's not "Where's Waldo in London," either! It's "Mrs. Dalloway." I > want to see "The Hours," so I thought it would be a good idea to finally read > it. > > And regarding this: "Di's life was a bit like that wasn't it though, pillar > to post and > > never centering." What is pillar to post? Is there letter posting going on > there. too? > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 19:08:30 EST From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: why joni-only in the first place all I can say is... ouch... ...as much as I appreciate your clarifying that Kate, I need to make one minor correction to your post... actually, I've received nothing but very kind, thoughtful responses to my question re the NJC tag, which I intended to be quite harmless... I think I'll head back to the relative safety of lurkdom for awhile.. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 00:12:55 +0000 From: colin Subject: Back ups NJC Recently due to bad weather, I have had power loss. Only for a second, but long enough to sometimes switch off my PC but more importantly to case the info in my kntting machiens to become corrupted and therefore bugger up the patterns. I pondered on what to do about this. After advice, I bought two APC Back Ups ES 500(UK ONLY). These look like surge protection racks but are much heavier because htey hold huge batteries. Anyway, I now have my kntting machiens and PC plugged into these two things. They WORK!!! If you unplug them, there is ot interruption at all to my work or the pC, the things just immediately switch to battery power. APC is a USA firm so of course you can get them there, just a different model. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:13:33 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Spotty English Teenager In Tennis Shock njc Please delete this post if you're not a tennis fan... My God, I think I'm seeing the future of British tennis! Alex Bogdanovic is actually leading Lleyton Hewitt in the first set, and, more importantly, looks like a natural and is making Hewitt look ordinary at the moment. I'm a bit of a tennis purist, and lament the rise of muscled thumpers and superfit grinders (of whom Hewitt is the apotheosis). Bogdanovic has a lovely, fluid one-handed backhand, reminding me of Justine Henin, just about my favourite player on the women's tour. Since I started typing this, Hewitt has broken back, but hey, he is the world's number one, and our boy is about 450... Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:51:26 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Queen of England and potential cuckoo in the nest NJC Lucy writes: << I tell you I had to study it in MINUTE deatil as part of my degree....... >> I have been reading it for more than three weeks, which is very slow for me. I keep having to re-read whatever I've read the night before, so I know what you mean about the MINUTE detail. But it is well worth it. The writing is astounding. << OOOOOOOOh REad "a Room of ones Own" if you want to get into Virginia!!(Woolf, that is,) >> I admit it: I have been afraid of Virginia Woolf for years. I kept trying to read "To the Lighthouse" and was never able to get into it. Maybe "A Room of One's Own" (AROOO, in JMDL talk!) will be next. Or maybe "Where's Waldo." --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 22:33:24 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: big yellow taxi I'm gonna call this njc --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Freddyb4@aol.com writes: > > << Does anyone collect recordings of Joni songs sung > by other Artists. >> > > Paging Mr. Muller . . . Mr. Bob Muller . . . I wonder how much Muller paid Fred (the shill) to ask that question? Not that Muller gets anything out of it except for the adoration of his fans. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 01:14:32 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Queen of England and potential cuckoo in the nest NJC they're big red cylinders. they have a pillar thing about them. wallyK, who hasn't mailed anything in the red pillar box on the corner since the invention of e-mail. - -----Mensaje original----- De: Murphycopy@aol.com [mailto:Murphycopy@aol.com] Enviado el: Jueves, 06 de Febrero de 2003 03:13 p.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Queen of England and potential cuckoo in the nest NJC << i think it's brit for mailbox. >> That was my guess too, but why don't they just say 'mailbox'? You know, the Brits may have invented English, but I think Americans made the language make sense! I hope this arrives in your e-pillar box okay! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:18:09 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Queen of England and potential cuckoo in the nest NJC --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > > wallyK, who hasn't mailed anything in the red pillar > box on the corner since > the invention of e-mail. Yeah, it's a pain in the bum to have to go out and buy stamps - that's the thing I hate about it. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 01:19:44 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Queen of England and potential cuckoo in the nest NJC lucy, stop it please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my sides can take only a limited measure of splitting! w - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Lucy Hone Enviado el: Jueves, 06 de Febrero de 2003 04:41 p.m. Para: Murphycopy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Queen of England and potential cuckoo in the nest NJC See Mother pick up the hammer, Smash Smash Smash See Father fall to the floor, Down Down Down Oh look, blood Red Red Red "Oh come children, come" says mother That red reminds me of the Pillar box, We must go and post a letter.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 01:25:38 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: The Merm - NJC i just the cover on amazon and i knew i had to have it. i'm downloading the tracks as i write. it's hideous beyond belief. i must have it! wallyK, who can't turn away from railroad accident scenes - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Gerald Notaro Enviado el: Jueves, 06 de Febrero de 2003 06:28 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: The Merm - NJC Over the years I have made copies for people on the list of a classic, never re-released masterpiece. I can now announce that The Ethel Merman Disco Album has finally been released on cd to overwhelming acclaim. The Amazon recommendations gave it one star, with one reviewer calling it "atrocious." So much for public taste! Bob Murphy, take note. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:37:31 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC welfare --- sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > Mags, I don't get the impression from reading the > Kimberly Rogers > stories that people are allowed to have student > loans and welfare at > the same time in Canada, or perhaps it's just > Ontario. [...] > Canada is a gentle, kind country, at least that's my > experience of > it, so this story stunned me and still does, > especially the lack of > sympathetic national media coverage. There were lots of stories about it here in Ontario, or at least here in Toronto. The inquest began in October 2002. I understand there may have been a publication ban while it was going on, which might explain the relative lack of recent stories about it. It was the subject of debate in the Ontario Legislature. If you check Hansard at the Ontario Legislature website and look up "Kimberly Rogers" you'll find several members' statements in the house, e.g.: http://gateway.ontla.on.ca/hansard/house_debates/37_parl/Session3/L042A.htm#P79_4714 (an excerpt below from 15 Oct 02): "Mr Tony Martin (Sault Ste Marie): Today begins the five-week inquest into the death of Kimberly Rogers, a woman who was banned from welfare and sentenced to house arrest for collecting student loans while on social assistance. Kimberly died while under house arrest. She was eight months pregnant and had only $18 for food for an entire month...." There's more, but I didn't want to include the whole thing. Also, as might be expected, Michele Landsberg in the Toronto Star on Jan 25 devoted her column to this story - here's a very long url (or go to www.thestar.com and do a search on "Kimberly Rogers": http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035776943413&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:39:03 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Queen of England and potential cuckoo in the nest NJC Lucy, you are one sick puppy! --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > lucy, > stop it please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > my sides can take only a > limited measure of splitting! Lucy wrote: > > See Mother pick up the hammer, Smash Smash Smash > See Father fall to the floor, Down Down Down > Oh look, blood > Red Red Red > "Oh come children, come" says mother > That red reminds me of the Pillar box, We must go > and post a letter.... ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:37:26 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: welfare, grants and housing (njc) It's been a long day and I can't recall who all asked for information but this might help some who are interested: In the U.S. one can apply for Pell Grants to earn an undergraduate college degree. One must earn under $45,000 and can receive up to a little over $3,000 a year free with no payback. The way I read it, one can also take out student loans or receive other aid in addition to the Pell Grant - here are the official links (why didn't I know about this in college?! Maybe they didn't have it then ;-) http://www.ed.gov/prog_info/SFA/StudentGuide/2000-1/pell.html https://www.pellgrantsonline.ed.gov/Disp_Intro.htm Housing for persons with low income. The U.S. has offered housing aid to low income earners since the depression. In 1974 Congress (and I understand it was those "evil" Republicans who came up with this great idea ;-) changed the law so that people who not have to go into blighted public housing and could rent nice private apts. or houses. It's called Section 8 housing and it is mandatory in California for each city and new developments to allot for it. I assume it is mandatory in the rest of the U.S., too. The low income threshold varies from region to region, but would definitely take in those earning minimum wage. They must pay 30% of their income on rent and the government pays the remainder of the rent up to a certain amount. I live in a very nice building where the rent averages $1,700-$3,000 a month and I have a number of neighbors with Section 8 rents where they pay as low as $250 a month. Here is the link: http://www.hud.gov/offices/pih/programs/hcv/index.cfm Minimum wage can vary from state to state. The wage the state decides if higher than the Federal minimum, supercedes the Federal law. An example of min. wages by state: $6.25 HI, $6.75 CA, $7.01 WA, $7.15 AK, $6.90 OR, $6.90 CT Maybe if companies were given more tax breaks they could afford to pay employees more. The business giveth - it is the government that taketh away. Don't assume Republicans want to do away with welfare. The issue is more with mismanagement and government waste and the larger issue is with the outrageous taxes we must pay. Most of the middle-class are making what some consider the salary of the rich. I'm in that category. So why, if I'm so rich and not deserving of a tax cut, do I only have the same amount of money as someone living on social security left over after I pay my rent? The answer is not to cut needed services - the answer is to revamp the tax system where you could get the same amount of money coming in, but in a smarter way. But that would put a lot of people (tax attorneys, CPA's, IRS) out of lucrative jobs now, wouldn't it? I've also had to use public assistance at times and lived poor for years and made minimum wage, too. If my low income had not been taxed at the rate it was then, I could have eaten full meals, had my own apt. and not had to work two jobs just to exist. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:29:21 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Health insurance (njc) While I'm on the benefits roll ;-) here is a fantastic place to get U.S. health insurance if you have to pay for it yourself. I recently told another JMDLer about it and he was able to cut his monthly bill by over 50%. Rates are as low as $29.00 a month. Blue Cross insurance as low as $30.00 with no co-pay and lifetime coverage of $5 million. In comparison, through my job I still have to pay $140/mo. in addition to what my employer pays (that is for choice of insurance and not an HMO which almost killed me a few times). If I could take this option instead, my bill would be significantly less. http://www.healthinsurance.com/scripts/WebObjects.dll/HealthInsurance Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 00:24:29 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: RE Beth Orton NJC hi >>>steve t wrote >>>>I really like Beth! I have 'Trailer Park' and love the whole thing including the more experimental stuff which grew on me. Need to get 'Central Reservation' too because I love 'Stolen Car'. Not sure about 'Daybreaker' though! Heard some stuff on the radio and really hated it and thought it was dull. Sounds like she's trying too hard to be commercial but maybe the singles don't represent the whole album! beth has been hailed as "the new joni mitchell" here :-) personally i wouldnt go quite that far, but her music is great. i found that i took a bit longer to get "daybreaker" but keep with it - when it does click for you its well worth it!!! dont miss any of her albums - tyhey are all well worth getting. but her stand out is definitely her debut - "superpinkymandy" - a limited release (5000 copies in japan!!!) originals are pretty difficult (actually just plain impossible) to get but copies are available. (blanks & postage or trade) the version of "she cries your name" is absolutely awesome. ron np - the vacuum cleaner. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:35:55 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: NJC welfare Sorry for misunderstanding, Mags. My brain didn't quite make the California/Canada transition on that post ;-) Kakki > Kakki, I should have made myself clear, I was talking about Canada and Ontario specifically re: welfare and student loans etc. > Mags. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 00:23:41 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: "chelsea morning" and "the house for unwed mothers" I was listening to Joni's Second Fret Sets (which I graciously received from a particular SC Joniguy), and after Joni finishes performing "Come To The Sunshine", she tells her audience about the inspiration behind "Chelsea Morning" which is next on the play list. I don't know if it has ever been mentioned here before, but I decided to transcribe it anyway for those who have never heard it: "Well, that's one morning, sunshine, love, and rainbow song. And I have another. It was written much later, and in a different place. You see, a long time ago I purchased some stained-glass windows that were about to be demolished because they were wrecking the house for unwed mothers that they were in - the unwed mothers were without, ofcourse - and I rescued them for five dollars each. And took them back to a very peaceful place and set them up in my windows. And every morning when the sun came up, the rainbow came in. Then one day, I moved to New York City, which is a very different place - - very different for writing under, because it's noisy all the time. So I put my stained-glass windows up. And I covered out all of the sky which was about that much in one corner, above the church, a postage stamp piece of sky. And I wrote a very different morning, rainbow, sunshine, and love song - - noisy as New York City." It sounds as if the house Joni had stayed in was demolished soon after her pregnancy. Also, is the "pretty baby" lyric from "chelsea morning" in reference to her little green? I know that Mags had written awhile back that she felt many of Joni's early works had references to Kilauren. This story just seems to reinforce it. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 02:00:31 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: February 7 1974: Joni performed at Boston City Music Hall - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 02:00:31 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: February 7 On February 7 the following items were published: 1974: "Concert Rocks Ithaca" - Ithacan (Review - Concert, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=137 1985: "Names and Faces" - Detroit Free Press (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=906 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #98 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)