From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #89 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, February 3 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 089 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- American Idol NJC ["Erica L. Trudelle" ] RE: the Catholic Church, NJC [] Joni on vinyl - amen! [Little Bird ] Re: Safe Foods - GMO NJC [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Freds poem and top ten artists SJC (of course) ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: Joni's album sales ["Stephen Toogood" ] RE: Reagan - HIV NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] A to B and no recollection..NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC [Susan Guzzi ] RE: Reagan - HIV NJC [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC ["Cynthia Vicker] RE: joni is a sheep (or ram)! ["Heather" ] Dogma tonight! NJC [vince ] Bullying this evening! NJC [Sarah ] Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni & the Catholic Church NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Shuttle (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] Sarah and Mary... NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC [Susan Guzzi ] RE: Sarah and Mary--or, vice versa (NJC) [] Re: Musical tastes REVEALED! NJC Tuba or not Tuba [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #86 Joni and nuns [Kardinel@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #86 a further note [Kardinel@aol.com] Re: Joni & the Catholic Church NJC [Catherine McKay ] RE: Joni & the Catholic Church NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Safe Foods, njc [Catherine McKay ] Reagan / HIV NJC [David Marine ] Re: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC ["Lori Fye" Subject: American Idol NJC Yes yes...I know most of you rag on this show but I actaully enjoy it. I try to put aside all of the things to be cynical about and jus listen to some of the incredible talent that they have found this year. The final 30 are great, a couple of them could make it without the show (like Frechie Davis, holy mama that girl could sing me the phone book and I'd love it!). Anyway, I was browsing thru some of the contestant bios and discovered that one of them, 20 year old Vanessa Olivarez from Atlanta, listed a Joni Mitchell song as one of her favorites of all time to sing. She got the name wrong though which bummed me out a bit. She listed "In My Blood", as what I guess would be ACOY. But hell I was just psyched that someone was actually listing a Joni song instead of a Justin Timerlake song (no offense to all you JT fans). So if you happen to flip around to Fox on a Tuesday night within the next couple of weeks (I'm not sure when her live audition for the final 10 is) try to check her out, she has an awesome voice and personality. Seriously some of the talent is pretty damn good, alot better than last year. Take care, peace out! Erica in NH _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:47:52 -0600 From: Subject: RE: the Catholic Church, NJC Vince wrote, among other things: "Sarah wrote to Mary: I haven't seen a lot of respect , on this list, from people who are opposed to the war for people who support the war [. . .]" Vince, thank you very much for the kind words, but I think Sarah was responding to another JMDLer in that particular post. At least, that's how I interpreted it. Carry on. . . ;-) Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:50:34 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni on vinyl - amen! Well, I decided to get the vinyl copy of The Hissing of Summer Lawns, after all. You can never have too much Joni now can you! I loved the observations people made about the "tangibility" of LPs - the larger photo, the glossy album, the substancial weight and size of the whole package. As a teenager I had six of my favourite LP jackets up on the wall, arranged in a large square over my stereo. If you can guess the six albums you win a million dollars. Anyway, I haven't played, or even opened, the record yet. But I'm glad I bought it! I'm a secret record-collecting madman and just came out of the closet as such, I suppose. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:56:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Safe Foods - GMO NJC Sarah wrote: Do you have an opinion on GM foods, Jenny? In Britain, we are very opposed to it.... U.S. citizens have definitely been more accepting of GM foods than in the U.K. and other countries. I think the jury is still out on whether GM is the way to go - we need more time to determine their short and long term safety and their impact on non-GM crops and the natural world. I'm unfortunately not up on the latest research, but last I heard there was trouble with allergic reactions to some foods. What do you think? Sarah wrote: regarding vegans and factory farming, the manure in Europe is bought from large farms, and these are invariably factory farms..... For that reason, many vegans eat conventionally produced vegetables and fruit, but very reluctantly, and the debate is always going back and forth - about which is the lesser of two evils. I guess I'm missing something...since conventional farms also commonly use manure and other animal "waste" products to produce food - how is eating conventional a better choice for a vegan who does not want to support factory farming than eating organic? Jenny At 10:46 AM -0800 02/03/2003, Jenny Goodspeed wrote: >Yes, if you're vegan, and do not want animals involved >in any part of the growing process, I can see that as >a problem. OG would be the lesser of two evils though >- both conventional and OG farmers use animal >products, and conventional farmers do so on a larger >scale. > >If you're a strict vegan and don't live near a vegan >organic grower (and there are very few), what on earth >would you do? > >Jenny Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:56:40 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: Freds poem and top ten artists SJC (of course) Verry touching poem Fred. Welcome to the list. My top ten in some kind of order... Joni (of course) Tori Amos Laura Nyro Bob Dylan Carole King Thea Gilmore Janis Ian Gemma Hayes Turin Brakes Leonard Cohen I'm sure this will alter a bit over the years but I know who will always be # 1. I shamefuly confess that the first album I bought was by PJ & Duncan (now Ant & Dec). LOL. For people not in the UK it was truly awful cheesy teenage pop. Wow how things change. Stephen Toogood NP: Wednesday by Tori "The snow falls like bolts of lace" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 9:52 PM Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #83 " Thanks " > I didn't expect to be welcomed by people into this group, and I'm pleased to > find that so many are like me, "As daft as a brush," I mean that in the > nicest possible way of course. Music is a personal thing, and all of us have > liked someone who no-one else seems to like, and maybe Joni and her music is > just too deep, for people with a "Wam bam thank you mam" approach to lyrics, > and so they just don't try, for me her music reaches inside, and it is hard > to understand why some people can't relate to it, yet I don't like the music > of Van Morrison, yet so many people do. > SO!!!! all of you, it's admit it time, lets see how diverse our tastes are, > list 10 artists/groups you like, but at the end of the list you must include > that secret that you meant to take to the grave, you know, you love The Bay > City Rollers!!! > My list > Joni Mitchell - especially her earlier work Cat Stevens - James Taylor - > Labi Siffri - Beatles - Cheryl Crow - Erasure - Squeese > Doris Day - Nat King Cole, I don't care what anyone says, nobody can sing > that well. and Doris is a dream, Oh yes she is ! > I didn't give this much thought, I could have included Kathleen Farrier, she > died in the 50's, and a favourite song on the radio when I was a kid was > "Blow the wind Southerly" and if that womans voice doesn't move you, you're > not human. > > The Shuttle disaster means somebody will be missing someone, this is > something I wrote on the evening of September 11th, had I lost my life so > unexpectedly, I thought about all those thing that are left unsaid, and > wondered if it were possible, what I would want to say to my family. Bye > for now Fred > > "REMEMBER ME" > > > CLOSE YOUR EYES, CAN YOU HERE ME? IbVE SOMETHING TO SAY > PLEASE BE STRONG, HELP EACH OTHER SURVIVE, > THINK OF ME, EVEN TALK TO ME, IbM WITH YOU EACH DAY, > NOW YOUR MEMORIES WILL KEEP ME ALIVE. > > IbM SORRY IbM NOT THERE, TO PROVE THAT I CARE, > AND IbM SORRY FOR ANY TEARS I MADE YOU CRY, > IF I EVER TOOK YOU FOR GRANTED, THEN THAT WAS UNFAIR, > PLEASE FORGIVE ME, OR AT LEAST, WILL YOU TRY. > > REMEMBER EACH DAY, AS YOUR SUN GOES AWAY, > YOUR NIGHTS ARE NOT AS DARK AS THEY SEEM, > IbM THE SHADOWS THAT TOUCH YOU AND KISS YOU GOOD NIGHT, > IbLL KEEP YOU WARM AND SAFE IN YOUR DREAMS. > > I WISH I COULD HUG YOU, HOLD YOU SO TIGHT, > AND CHASE AWAY ALL YOUR FEARS, > I JUST WISH I COULD SOOTHE AWAY ALL YOUR PAIN, > AND KISS AWAY ALL YOUR TEARS. > > NOW PLEASE REMEMBER MY GRIN, AND THE WAY I WALKED IN, > MY HELLO, MY EXCUSES, MY GOODBYE, > AND REMEMBER MY DARES, OR JUST THE SCENT OF MY HAIR, > AND ALL OUR DREAMS, THAT WERE "PIE IN THE SKY." > > AND REMEMBER MY LIFE, AND ALL THOSE SONGS THAT I LIKED, > OR THE MAD WAY I RAN UP THE STAIRS. > WHEN YOU LEFT ME ALONE, I ALWAYS WISHED YOU WOULD PHONE, I ALWAYS MISSED YOU > WHEN YOU WERENbT THERE. > > DRAW STRENGTH FROM ME NOW, MAKE ME PROUD, HOW YOUbLL GROW, > RISE ABOVE, SPREAD YOUR WINGS, BE SO FREE, > AND MAY PEACE RULE YOUR LIFE, FILLED WITH LAUGHTER AND LOVE, > AND FROM TIME TO TIME, THINK OF ME > AND WHEN YOU DO, REMEMBER HOW I LOVED YOU. > I KNOW HOW MUCH YOU LOVED ME. > > FRED BEACH SEPT 11TH 2001 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:57:21 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: PJ Harvey NJC Just starting to listen to more PJ myself. I'm liking some of it but like someone on the list said; not much melody. I shall listen some more though. Best to start with either 'Stories From The City, Stories From The Sea' (her most comercial and 'Good Fortune' is one of my fave singles ever) or 'To Bring You My Love' (she sings so passionately on 'Send His Love To Me' and it's also the song that got me listening). Alot of her other stuff is quite heavy (especially earlier stuff). I'm presently borowing all her albums and will buy the one I like the most first! Stephen Toogood NP: Sweet Sangria by Tori "The snow falls like bolts of lace" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 12:40 AM Subject: joni for the new generation > my neice who is 23 & a very talented singer/songwriter (winner of the > international gospel association award last year) was raised & heavily > influenced by joni & one of her other major influences/inspiration is pj > harvey...this is someone i have been meaning to but not yet listened to > yet...so, where should i start? at the beginning? > > terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:58:10 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: Joni's album sales I wouldn't know myself but I'm sure there must be a way of finding out that stuff. I read somewhere that STAS went gold after a while even though it didn't debut so well. Also I get a feeling that BLUE has sold the most copies over all. Stephen Toogood NP: Carbon by Tori "The snow falls like bolts of lace" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Olson" To: Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 12:16 AM Subject: Re: Joni in Record Collector > I compiled some data found at http://www.robotwisdom.com/jorn/joni.html > Peak = peak position, weeks = number of weeks on chart (top 200?) > > STASG: Peak: #189, weeks: 9 > Clouds: Peak: #31, weeks: 36 > LOTC: Peak: #27, weeks: 33 > Blue: Peak: #15, weeks: 28 > FTR: Peak: #11, weeks: 28 > CAS: Peak: #2 (4 weeks), weeks: 64 > MOA: Peak: #2 (1 week), weeks: 22 > THOSL: Peak: #4, weeks: 17 > Hejira: Peak: #13, weeks: 18 > DJRD: Peak: #25, weeks: 13 > Mingus: Peak: #17, weeks: 18 > SandL: Peak: #38, weeks: 16 > WTRF: Peak: #25, weeks: 21 > DED: Peak: #63, weeks: 19 > CMIARS: Peak: #45, weeks: 16 > NRH: Peak: #41, weeks: 14 > TI: Peak: #47, weeks: 10 > > Of course, what I really want to know is how many total sales have there > been to date for each album? Anyone know where one could get that info? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 17:04:29 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: Reagan - HIV NJC birds on the brain.. I guess. :-) > > I think it took a lot of gull on your part > >Jonathan Livingston Sea.... ? > >; ) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:05:25 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: A to B and no recollection..NJC Bree, this was in your mail posted in digest no 87... I am not sure if it is you saying it or if it is taken from someone else's mail and put in....ANYWAY there is this piece below in your mail. "Have you never lost your train of thought? There have been times I have been driving and my mind wanders and I don't remember how I got from point A to B. It's just all of a sudden I am at point B. (I know this is dangerous..but it has happened on more than one occasion with me)" Oh I can relate to that so totally and became a little worried when I read "Communion" by Whitley Streiber....the story is thus...... I had to drive from my house in Hamsphire to Mold in North Wales in one day.. It was December 1983......some of you are already appraised of the fact that the UK is unable to cope with 2 degrees of frost .....so to drive 180 miles up and then 180 miles back in December...... with snow above Bristol was a slightly hopeful venture even in good weather... ALSO those who have not been here...... . Please understand that the UK is a huge network of not very wonderful roads and once you are off the motorways the system might speed up (our motorways make excellent Long Term Parking) but you may find that the quality and width of the roads, and standard of winter gritting, may not be up to much.... Anyway I left at 5 am and had got to Bristol M4/M5 by 8.30 (hey some going....99 miles) then headed up the M5 to get up to the M6 and acriss to Mold.. I then had to find a transmitter site (DON'T EVEN GET ME TO EXPLAIN WHY) and I got there by noon... the snow was thick and the car was a ford cortina (I WAS A REP OK) and hated the climb up the track to the site... I had lunch and then headed home with a very very expensive spectrum analyser in the back of the car.....I remember getting to Kidderminster... I had decided to come home down the valleys (IT IS SOO BEAUTIFUL) but after Kidderminster I have no memory at all except that I awoke the next morning, in my bed. I went to drive to work and checked the car boot....(back bit where you store things for those of you puzzled is that the TRUNK in US speak?)... and there was no analyser there.PANIC OR WHAT... this piece of kit was about 27,000 pounds sterling at the time and it had gone....... I drove in to work in tears and had composed my resignation letter by the time I got there... I walked into the workshop and there was the analyser on the bench with my notes on what needed to be done to it... I had driven to work the night before, given the analyser to the night staff and gone home....... I am missing something like 18 hours of my life!!! I truly have no recollection of doing any of this and when I read COMMUNION I did wonder about having been TAKEN.... Well that is my strange A to B story and it was very weird.. Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:22:53 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC Hey again Lori! > Lori said: > Do I get any credit for the fact that I was being understanding of my > little brother Billy, who at the age of 8 was completely in love with > Donny? He and his little friend Doug used to have contests to see who > could kiss the most pinups of Donny (and Michael Jackson). I escorted > them to an Osmonds concert at the Akron Rubber Bowl (really, that's > what it was called!) in 1972, and literally had Billy sitting on my > shoulders so he could see better when the Osmonds began to play "He > Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother." I think I became tearful. (This is a > true story.) So now you resort to cheap sentiment! NO NO NO credit for being understanding of your younger brother! My sister was tortured by me - I thought that's what they were for .... younger siblings. I had to put up with Daivd Cassidy! But I would NEVER have risked my cool by going to one of his concerts! I have coolness standards Lori! LOL! Although I did have a crush on Susan Dey! :-D Seriously, that is a sweet story, Lori. It's a nice memory to have and nobody can take that away. Lori said: > Also seen at the Akron Rubber Bowl that same year (previous to the > Osmonds, I believe): the James Gang and Three Dog Night. (Woo.) Ooh "you just turn your crazy head and walk away" ... Rather than "go away little girl" - ah yes much better! Lori: > I started smoking dope at age 15, but didn't discover Joni until I was > almost 19. What can I say? I had a sheltered childhood. (Btw, I will > be 45 in July.) Oh pardon me Lori, I thought I was older.... okay I am - I'll be 46 that same month! How can that be?!! Dman it anyway - I look GOOD! LOL! > Lori; > NPIMH: "Crazy Horses" Me: NPIMH - I think I love You! David Cassidy Peace, Susan Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:29:54 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Safe Foods, njc Hey hey Catherine! I have to step in here with some of my expertise! :-) We do consume inorganics in the way of minerals - mainly transition metal complexes of iron, copper and zinc. Then there is the whole group of organo-metallics which is too involved and I don't want to bore people. Whew! Never thought I'd slinging any chemistry around here! ;-) Best- Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 9:31 AM To: Kate Bennett; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Safe Foods, njc --- Kate Bennett wrote: > maybe its not as available in france but here in the > usa or at least > california you can get all of these things you > mentioned (& more) in organic > form...no pesticides, hormones, antibiotics, et The problem with so much of the organic foods is the cost - it costs about three times as much as the, um, inorganic kind. On that note, the expression "organic" does kind of make me laugh. The opposite is "inorganic" and we don't eat much in the way of inorganic things, except for salt. And, if you want to be really paranoid about it, as I sometimes am, even the organically grown stuff grows in soil that has no doubt been subjected to contamination of some kind, and is rained on by acid rain. I realize I'm going too far with this. I do try to buy organic whenever I can - you can find lots of it in Toronto but, well, it's expensive. Thinking of converting my entire backyard into a vegetable garden this year, but only if I can get someone with a bulldozer in to turn over the grass first! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:33:43 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: RE: Reagan - HIV NJC Ahem & pardon me, but doesn't that make you a bird-brain?" I tried not to but - I had to! Bree I still love you kid! Even if you are on the wrong path! JK! Peace, Susan - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > birds on the brain.. I guess. :-) > > > > > I think it took a lot of gull on your part > > Lori: > >Jonathan Livingston Sea.... ? > > > >; ) Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:41:01 -0600 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC "cool" susan wrote: <> just in case one of you might have accidentally gotten the wrong idea, and thought i *might* be cool - i went to see david cassidy in concert many many years ago and *RUSHED THE STAGE.* ok ok... i was 11 years old at the time. the bad news? i saw him again last year, in concert at Harrah's in new orleans, and i rushed the stage again. *and* his last CD (which is absolutely abysmal, by the way)?? i have a copy of that - personally autographed to me. _______________________________________ Cindy Vickery Daniel Corporation 205-443-4718 direct 205-443-4615 facsimile http://www.danielcorp.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:51:08 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: joni is a sheep (or ram)! Wally wrote: "this is joni's year, since she'll be turning 60 in november. as 60 is a multiple of 12, then joni was born in the year of the sheep. quite a strange combination. a scorpion and a sheep. the secrets of death and sex mixed with the frugality and the sentimentalism of the sheep. but then who can figure joni out?" I'm a Virgo and born in the Chinese lunar year of the sheep ... a virgin and a sheep. Can it get anymore boring than that?? Please send me some insight oh wise, wonderful Wally :-) Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Wally Kairuz Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 7:49 PM To: _JMDL Subject: joni is a sheep (or ram)! happy chinese new year everyone!!!!! i know how to say it in chinese but i don't how to write it, so just imagine me in my best madam sin clothes saying it in perfect mandarin. this is the year of the water sheep (or ram, as it is also called) it's 4071 in the chinese lunar calendar. 2002 was the year of the horse, whose main elements were fire and water, signifying great potential for conflict and unrest. this year's sheep element are water and earth, also conflicting but less destructive. we hope we hope we hope... this is joni's year, since she'll be turning 60 in november. as 60 is a multiple of 12, then joni was born in the year of the sheep. quite a strange combination. a scorpion and a sheep. the secrets of death and sex mixed with the frugality and the sentimentalism of the sheep. but then who can figure joni out? to all of you sheep (or rams) on the list, this is your time in the limelight in the 12-year cycle. be prosperous and happy. don't be too cruel to poor little rats like me! i promise i won't steal your lovers away from you and i won't get to the bargain basements before you! (what liars rats are!) in any case, lots of red envelopes with money for everybody! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 18:01:14 -0500 From: vince Subject: Dogma tonight! NJC Sarah wrote to Debra: > Look, this is degenerating into personal abuse, and I can't see the > purpose of that. The articles I send are biased opinion pieces, and > not really articles? Oh come on. . . > > Read what I have said about infallibility. The Catholic Church > believes it is capable of infallibility. What does it matter whether > it has "used" this capability once or a thousand times? It believes > itself capable of knowing absolute truths, and of pronouncing them. > > And, with respect, you have written posts about the Middle East, but > appear not to be an expert, and you have a right to. Similarly, I have > a right to express a view about the Catholic Church without having to > be a specialist. > In other words, "oh come on" to Debra, and no personal abuse, but then, Sarah says, Debra "appear[s] not to be an expert..." on what Debra posts about. Do you really, Sarah, fail to see that you are insulting Debra, calling her not an expert, for disagreeing with you? I ask this, do you really fail to see how you insult others while saying that you see no purpose in it? As far as infallibility: it makes a huge difference, regarding a doctrine that was promulgated in 1870 and used once, in 1950. It is not a matter of interpretation there but simple factual knowledge, and very important in understanding what a church body confesses and does and is about. "What does it matter..." is at the least, a very unusual intellectual stance. And with Debra, enough said. I am out of this. I am tired of this. Debra, make me a caffeine free diet coke with lime, I'll bring chipotle chips, lets turn off the computers, and lets curl up and watch "Dogma" tonight! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 17:10:10 -0700 From: Sarah Subject: Bullying this evening! NJC Debra is no Middle East expert, and I am no expert on Catholicism. But we both have the right to express our views on those subjects. And we may both have some experience of those subjects, even though we're not experts. To say this, is not insulting to anyone. Sarah At 6:01 PM -0500 02/03/2003, vince wrote: >In other words, "oh come on" to Debra, and no personal abuse, but >then, Sarah says, Debra "appear[s] not to be an expert..." on what >Debra posts about. Do you really, Sarah, fail to see that you are >insulting Debra, calling her not an expert, for disagreeing with you? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:17:05 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) >>My idea about self-hatred, or more accurately lack of self-definition, comes from her early lyrics<< this is a very interesting thought sarah! (although, i'd say lack of self-defination is quite different from self-hatred)...it does not suprise me that you find that element in her early lyrics although i never looked at it from that perspective before... search for self is such a huge motivation in & product of the creative process & with someone like joni who is/was so willing to go so very deep & to be so brutally honest & then express herself discoveries so eloquently, it is understandable that so many, in their own struggle to understand themselves in relation to others & their world, would find solace in her songs... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:17:03 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: NJC P.J. Harvey thank you all for your advice...i'm so confused now! maybe i will go listen to some samples but it sounds like if i buy it should be 'stories' as a starter cd... i don't know which one my neice recommends...it's funny because she is definately in the christian music biz (though maybe a little more artsy than they are used to) but none of her influences are from that genre...she likes what pj harvey is doing & wants to go that direction... however my neice sounds so much like vienna teng (which is why i just got that cd)...similar vocally, lyrically, & also trained in classical piano...i am sending a copy to my neice to hopefully inspire her...(especially with the letterman show exposure) ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:17:06 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC this is hard, i've left so many out...but here is some kind of list of some of my top artists (though i don't have all of anyone's entire works), in order of my discovery: Beatles Stevie Wonder Joni Mitchell Jackson Browne (& contrary to what some say, i love his political songs) Rickie Lee Jones Police/Sting Peter Gabriel Sarah McLachlin John Gorka Patty Griffin my confession: I loved Neil Sedaka as a kid! ps oh no! i left out emmylou harris, santana, paul simon (with/without garfunkel), jonatha brooke, bonnie raitt, karla bonoff, pretenders, james taylor, bob dylan, van the man...! & many more i'm sure ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:17:01 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni & the Catholic Church NJC >>Odd ideas can lodge in young girls' minds<< yes, those ideas you describe are certainly real & influence boys as much as girls due to so many factors...also, imo, those feelings often are seeded at a very young age- early child development is so formative...it sure would be wonderful if we could keep our youth away from all those who would make them feel inferior however to do that you'd have to be living on the moon or maybe at the bottom of the grand canyon (i remember reading about a family who did that & at the time it seemed appealing to me!)... just a few things which adversely influence a kid's self esteem includes the media (all kinds), some teachers, their peers, even some parents...all of this can be part of the mix that make young girls & boys feel inadequate... sadly, even the most loving parent can be clueless about what their children are being exposed to until it is too late...for example, a friend whose 2 grown sons are now suing the local boys choir (franciscans) for molestation...all the mom knew at the time was that her 2 boys were so fortunate to be part of the children's choir that travelled to europe to perform...what mom would not think this was a wonderful opportunity....DECADES later the boys/now men finally were willing to come to terms with what happened to them on that trip... btw, my first encounter with the catholic religion was as a young girl with a friend who was raised catholic...her stories of god & hell & pergatory, etc scared the beegeesuz out of me...i went home & prayed for everyone stuck in pergatory to be let out immediately! lol... >>At the time of Kilauren's birth, Catholic services may have been the only or at least the most extensive "social services" available.<< however, i will speak up on behalf of the generosity of catholic services that i encountered when i was a young divorced single mom barley keeping a roof over our heads & food in our stomachs...our local catholic services had a wonderful 'store' set up for people in need during the holiday season where they let you come in & pick out presents for your child...lots of people donated toys & food & there was a group of women who made gorgeous hand made sweaters!!!! i will never ever forget that brand new made with such love sweater that i picked out for my (then) little boy...it brings me to tears thinking about it...anyway this service has grown into a multiagency service & the store is now huge & it all started because of the generosity & i must add creative thinking of catholic services ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:17:07 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Shuttle (NJC) like all of you i was shocked & saddened by this ... we were driving south early in the morning, noticed some half mast flags along the freeway & turned on the news to discover this horrible news... like you said steve, i've been hearing amelia in my head too...mostly these lines- "a ghost of aviation she was swallowed by the sky or by the sea just like me she had a dream to fly" ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:15:41 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Sarah and Mary... NJC Dear and very erudite and empassioned sisters of the Order of the Interminable Religious Intractability. I have watched you both defend your view points admirably and with enormous candour and you both in your own ways manage to make very pertinent points........... which you can back up with each of your own researched, or not, feelings and gleaned facts and figures. You both mention things that show how committed you are to your particular camp.. and for that immense passion, that determined position to have the last say I commend you. I have to say I am not going to enter into any of it as there seems to be no healing possible in religious conflicts. Who am I to commend you? I am no one. I have no religious faith that can be determined by any rule book or document of social control but the christian faith would claim I live by the 10 commandments. (thank whoever that THOU SHALT NOT SMOKE is not one of them) .It is possible that I also live by an enormous number of Islamic laws (smoking excepted) as well.. Maybe some bhuddist ones some hindu ones.. who the hell knows and more to the point who the hell really cares......I know you both do, but the caring is ultimately about making your point stick on the other and that will not happen ever... I think it is possible to find that there is good in both of you as either committed catholic or atheist (lower case for both not intended to cause offence but to accord them their equal status in my eyes). Causes, that we take to our hearts, causes that we would die for, are named "causes" because ultimately they CAUSE SOMETHING to happen in our lives. They may bring light, or darkness depending on whether your are the cause or the one affected by it... A cause for the good can still kill the good depending on which sideof the line you stand... I think the deciding question to determine the similarities that brought you both together (at least for me) is..... DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE ACRONYM SIQUOMB? Peace and love to you both... Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:33:19 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC I might have forgiven you and left your cool intact for your indiscretion at age 11, but CYNTHIA _ LAST YEAR!? AND you rushed the stage - AGAIN? Was there anyone else there to rush by? better yet - - Was Susan Dey there? ;-P Peace, Susan And was it only his LAST Cd that was abysmal? NPIMH: I woke up in LOve this Morning, I woke up in LOve this Morning, went to sleep with you on my mind! (oh Yeah I know the words) - --- Cynthia Vickery wrote: > > "cool" susan wrote: > < risked my cool by going to > one of his concerts!>> > > just in case one of you might have accidentally gotten the wrong > idea, and thought i *might* be cool - > i went to see david cassidy in concert many many years ago and > *RUSHED THE STAGE.* ok ok... i was 11 years old at the time. > the bad news? > i saw him again last year, in concert at Harrah's in new orleans, > and i rushed the stage again. > *and* his last CD (which is absolutely abysmal, by the way)?? i > have a copy of that - personally autographed to me. > > > _______________________________________ > Cindy Vickery > Daniel Corporation > 205-443-4718 direct > 205-443-4615 facsimile > http://www.danielcorp.com/ Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:42:17 -0600 From: Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:45:59 -0600 From: Subject: RE: Sarah and Mary--or, vice versa (NJC) Lucy wrote: "I think it is possible to find that there is good in both of you as either committed catholic or atheist (lower case for both not intended to cause offence but to accord them their equal status in my eyes)." Absolutely! I'm certain of it. At least, I know that there is good in Sarah. Some days I have doubts about that other person you addressed. ;-) Take care, Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:20:58 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Musical tastes REVEALED! NJC Tuba or not Tuba In a message dated 2/3/03 11:55:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: > Well, Fred, the fact is I've always liked tuba music. The more tubas the > merrier, as far as I'm concerned. Tubas always sound happy or at least > funny > to me. Murphy, I've known you for 3 years now, and I didn't know we had so much in common. I *love* the tuba too! We'll just have to do a duet at Jonifest this year. Not many people know that I play the tuba professionally. I've been a member of the I.T.E.A (International Tuba-Euphonium Association) for quite some time now. There's so much more to the tuba than "oom pah pah, oom pah pah", and us tubists get such a bad rap. My main instrument is the Boosey and Hawkes Eb Tuba, but I also play on both a Miraphone CC Tuba and latterly on a B&S CC Perantucci CC Tuba, which I love to play most of all, especially in the big stuff. Prokofiev, Mahler, Wagner etc. My favorite artists are: Zachariah Spellman Joseph D. Terwilliger, Ph.D Ingvar Hdllerstehl For anyone insterested in learning to play the tuba, I must emphasize CLEANLINESS, CLEANLINESS, CLEANLINESS!!! In order to minimize sickness and infection, mouthpieces should be cleaned daily. Check that there are no nicks in the rim. These not only harbor bacteria but can also physically damage the player's lips. Check that the mouthpiece shank is round and fits firmly into the mouthpiece receiver on the tuba. This is my tip for the day. As for Joni songs on the tuba, I do a mean "Jungle Line", and I'm working on "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" One other thing which comes in handy when you play the tuba. When you use a public campground, placing a TUBA on your picnic table will keep the campsites on either side of you vacant. :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:52:34 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #86 Joni and nuns I think you are all reading too much into Joni and the nuns. I wish I had only two encounters with them. I went to Catholic school and later to a boarding school run by them. In fact, I now work in the same building that once was my grade school. I think Joni was afraid of her mother more than anything else. I had a child alone myself and even though I was in my early 30's I left Maine and lived in another state for several years to get away from the judgmental views. I can't imagine being about 20 in the same situation. Oh, as far as Joni feeling bad about herself. Like all of us she probably feels it but I don't think you could hate yourself and accomplish what she has. Maureen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:54:40 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #86 a further note What I wrote about having a baby alone happened to me in the 80's but I remember how girls like Joni were treated in the 60's and it wasn't pretty. Maureen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:06:28 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni & the Catholic Church NJC --- Sarah wrote: > That's what confession is. You confess to a priest, > not directly to > god. The whole protestant/catholic schism came > about precisely > because of the Catholic belief that a relationship > with god should be > mediated. The early protestants wanted to believe > they could have a > direct relationship with god, bypassing the > authority of the church. Oh well, I thought you were talking about praying. Some might argue that confessing to a priest is not unlike talking to a therapist although most priests seem quite bored by the whole thing - i'm sure they've heard so many so-called sins that they just roll their eyes at the whole thing (that's probably why they're behind that screen - so they can make faces without the person seeing them!) I thought the schism was because Henry VIII couldn't make up his mind whether he wanted to be married to his brother's widow or some other chick. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:07:43 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: my new 8 FREE music groups at yahoo hey guys-forgive the intrusion but i just wanted to let you know that i started 8 new music groups-and theyre all free of course-heres the links (im sure you are happy with this group but you may want to join some of my others) judy collins fan club http://groups.yahoo.com/group/judycollinsfanclub/ she once had it-and guess what-she still does! laura nyro fans http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lauranyrofans/?yguid=91516277 boy could she surrey fifth dimension fans http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fifthdimensionfans/?yguid=91516277 where we all discovered laura and jimmy web et. al. jo stafford http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jostafford/ the smoothest and most oerfect pitch of any singer sang in the pied pipers with sinatra-hugely popular on her own spanky and our gang http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spankyandourgang/ all but forgotten 60s vocal group (like to get to know you) rosemary clooney fan club http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rosemaryclooneyfanclub/?yguid=91516277 recently deceased and quite simply the best songstress ever eydie gorme http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eydiegorme/?yguid=91516277 strongest voice in the world sergio mendes & brasil 66 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brasil66/ the swinginist bossa nova group from the 60s (mais que nada was featured in the austin powers movie) come in have a look around ---im gonna be posting tons of pix and downloads as always -im open to suggestions......... drop me a line walterphil@excite.com or walterphil@yahoo.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:09:50 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni & the Catholic Church NJC LOL cath! you kill me!!!! by the way, is there anything you actually LIKE re. foods? you would be such a difficult dinner guest... wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Catherine McKay Enviado el: Lunes, 03 de Febrero de 2003 10:06 p.m. Para: Sarah; dsk; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Joni & the Catholic Church NJC . Oh well, I thought you were talking about praying. Some might argue that confessing to a priest is not unlike talking to a therapist although most priests seem quite bored by the whole thing - i'm sure they've heard so many so-called sins that they just roll their eyes at the whole thing (that's probably why they're behind that screen - so they can make faces without the person seeing them!) I thought the schism was because Henry VIII couldn't make up his mind whether he wanted to be married to his brother's widow or some other chick. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:13:06 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni mitchell Taming the Tiger poster --- Christopher Treacy wrote: > As an avid collector of paper goods, especially all > things Joni, I have to > warn - THIS IS A FLAT. I'm very tired of people > attempting to sell flats on > ebay as posters (they do it ALL the time and it's SO > misleading!). What is a flat? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:25:23 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #85 --- Freddyb4@aol.com wrote: > > Catherine, what is it that stops women wanting to be > refered to as female, > you could tell how innocent my statement is, so why > should it offend, I have > come across this when some film gal took offence at > being called an actress, > and insisted on being refered to as an actor, I knew > a male nurse who's > occupation was a "Midwife" would he have got > anywhere if he demanded that he > should be called a "Midhusband" lol Hey, it ain't me, Fred - Joni's constantly complaining about being called the best *female* or *woman* singer/ songwriter/ whatever. I think when it comes to talent, a person's sex shouldn't make any difference. I have a hard time with the actor/actress thing too - I'm too used to saying actress when it's a woman. Alhough men and women are both singers, not singers and singesses. We're awfully inconsistent about that. You're probably kidding about the midwife thing, but it's hard to tell - the word comes from Old English and has to do with the person being *with* (mid, sort of like the German "mit") the "wife", which is the woman giving birth. So a male midwife would still be a midwife, strange though that sounds. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:30:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Safe Foods, njc --- colin wrote: > > gm has already croosed over and now we have weeds we > can't kill.... Be on the alert for killer tomatoes. They're big. They're red. They're headed your way. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 18:13:52 -0800 From: David Marine Subject: Reagan / HIV NJC Hey Bree -- If you wish to make the argument that Reagan was in full command of his faculties and his presidency, then you have to accept that he is responsible for his decisions during the health crisis. If you accept that, then the blood is on his hands. How can you possibly hold someone like that in high regard? Best, David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 18:13:01 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC Cindy wrote, of David Cassidy: > just in case one of you might have accidentally gotten the wrong > idea, and thought i *might* be cool - > i went to see david cassidy in concert many many years ago and > *RUSHED THE STAGE.* I confess: David Cassidy was my very first concert! I was 12, and my mother took me, along with some girls I barely knew. When I was 17, I became friends with a girl named Andrea who I later learned won David's sweaty towel and Coke cup on a radio station giveaway -- and she still had them!! Is it just Ohio? Or is everyone as weird? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:15:47 EST From: Freddyb4@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #88 "NJC Religion" Wow this discussion of religion "Religion" is pretty vigorous, and it's a difficult arguement for anyone to win, I had to go to church and sunday school as a kid, it was fun in the winter, but once the Sun came out I started "Mooching off" I was 8 years old and I decided I would rather be running around in the fields and climbing trees, my mother tried to get tough, but I never went to church again. I always seem to question what I'm told, and as I have grown older I feel, enjoying your life, and living a good life, being a good human being is what matters, but the human race seems compelled to put labels on themselves or others, tall, short, fat, thin, black, white, Christian, Muslim, the list is endless and pointless. The labels highlight a difference, and difference so often means conflict, why can't people be happy to be alive. Put kids of any race or creed together and they will accept any difference, prejudice, religous or political, whatever, has to be learned, and sadly adults continue to poison young minds. If you believe in God I can't be critical, I may even envy you, I believe something lives on after you die, even if it's just your memory in those you leave behind, but I have never encountered a situation where I have felt I must believe. Forgive me, but, following September 11th so many survivors were making comments, thanking God that they survived, but if He /She is so all powerful, and if this is a Our God (Christian) v Their God (Muslim) contest then I'm sorry but they came a poor second and third on that day, the winners on that day were those people who decided that belonging to the human race comes first and foremost, people proffessional and civilian, who without a thought for their own families, their own worth, put their lives on the line to save others. Labels disappeared that day, but sadly some people are bound to put them back, and I'm sorry I can't see how God can be thanked, when people so desperate to live, were raining down from the sky. My eyes are full of tears writing that, what a painful day that was, but why do we give God all the credit, when we should be thanking each other. To say God wanted them to die to be with him in Heaven is just a cop out, I'll live my life as a good human being, and if it's true that unless I accept God into my life, I will not be allowed into heaven when I die, then quite frankly I don't want to go, if he were working for a company he would have been fired by now. Power and Money corrupt, where are there poor churches?? Hope this doesn't offend anyone Fred ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #89 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)