From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #85 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, February 2 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 085 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #38 [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Safe Foods, njc [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: NJC Why the Left is wrong on Saddam [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: joni for the new generation [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #83 " Thanks " [Freddyb4@aol.com] Re: Reagan - HIV NJC ["Lori Fye" ] NJC Fred's poem and favorite artists [sl.m@shaw.ca] Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) ["Happy The Man" >>>>>>NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Safe Foods, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Reagan - HIV NJC ["Lori Fye" ] NJC Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #83 " Thanks " [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni in Record Collector [Dan Olson ] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) [Mags N Brei ] NJC Safe Foods: it gets worse [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: NJC favorite artists [FMYFL@aol.com] joni for the new generation ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) ["kakki" ] Re: NJC favorite artists [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC [Susan Guzzi <] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) ["kakki" ] Billboard reviews BYT single [Randy Remote ] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: NJC favorite artists [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #39 Taming the Tiger print [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) njc or not? [Mags N Brei ] Re: Joni in Record Collector [Randy Remote ] Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) njc or not? [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: NJC Safe Foods: it gets worse [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:25:52 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #38 Scott wrote > "I could drink a case of you > And still be on my feet" > > I always thought this meant Joni felt she couldn't get enough of him. > Unlike > a bottle or an entire case of wine, when once you reach the point of > overconsumption it becomes painfully obvious you've had too much, with this > > guy, she could "consume" as much as she wanted and she'd still want more. > I would add "and not be poisoned after too big a dose". Here, there is a declaration of the perfect mesh - intoxicating but not lethal. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 15:35:38 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Safe Foods, njc Another problem with organic food, Catherine, is that a lot of it has been covered in shit from farms, in place of of pesticides. Two problems with that: first, the farms that sell the manure may not have been organic and it may contain pesticides, and secondly, in eating these foods, you're supporting the continuance of factory farming, and the widespread feeding of animals, rather than humans, with all the by-product problems that entails (the waste, the unwanted male offspring etc). For these reasons, some animal rights activists have very reluctantly gone back to eating non-organic produce. Sarah At 9:31 AM -0500 02/02/2003, Catherine McKay wrote: >And, if you want to be really paranoid about it, as I >sometimes am, even the organically grown stuff grows >in soil that has no doubt been subjected to >contamination of some kind, and is rained on by acid >rain. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 15:37:40 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: NJC Why the Left is wrong on Saddam The UK is six or seven hours ahead of where I am, so their next day's papers tend to come online around 6-7 pm my time. So, yes, I can see into the future. Haven't worked out how to use this for the lottery yet though. :-) Sarah At 9:34 AM -0500 02/02/2003, Catherine McKay wrote: >How can you be reading tomorrow's papers today? Have >you found a way through the space/time continuum? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 15:43:29 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: joni for the new generation Interesting what you say about Annie Lennox - I love her too. But it's more her voice and style I love. I'm not sure her lyrics can compete with Joni, who writes pure poetry, whereas Annie Lennox is more of a lyrics-to-be-sung person, IMO. But brilliant all the same. Sarah At 7:50 AM -0800 02/02/2003, Little Bird wrote: >. . .I think a case could be made for a lot of musicians who have >followed in Joni's footsteps and carved out a similar path for >themselves. My vote goes to Annie Lennox, who has been in the game >since the late 70s and is just starting to be recognized as an >astounding contributor to music, with her recent "Contribution to >Music" Brit Award and her 2002 Billboard Century Award. One writer >said about her, "Annie Lennox is the missing link between Joni >Mitchell and the future." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:52:14 EST From: Freddyb4@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #83 " Thanks " I didn't expect to be welcomed by people into this group, and I'm pleased to find that so many are like me, "As daft as a brush," I mean that in the nicest possible way of course. Music is a personal thing, and all of us have liked someone who no-one else seems to like, and maybe Joni and her music is just too deep, for people with a "Wam bam thank you mam" approach to lyrics, and so they just don't try, for me her music reaches inside, and it is hard to understand why some people can't relate to it, yet I don't like the music of Van Morrison, yet so many people do. SO!!!! all of you, it's admit it time, lets see how diverse our tastes are, list 10 artists/groups you like, but at the end of the list you must include that secret that you meant to take to the grave, you know, you love The Bay City Rollers!!! My list Joni Mitchell - especially her earlier work Cat Stevens - James Taylor - Labi Siffri - Beatles - Cheryl Crow - Erasure - Squeese Doris Day - Nat King Cole, I don't care what anyone says, nobody can sing that well. and Doris is a dream, Oh yes she is ! I didn't give this much thought, I could have included Kathleen Farrier, she died in the 50's, and a favourite song on the radio when I was a kid was "Blow the wind Southerly" and if that womans voice doesn't move you, you're not human. The Shuttle disaster means somebody will be missing someone, this is something I wrote on the evening of September 11th, had I lost my life so unexpectedly, I thought about all those thing that are left unsaid, and wondered if it were possible, what I would want to say to my family. Bye for now Fred "REMEMBER ME" CLOSE YOUR EYES, CAN YOU HERE ME? IbVE SOMETHING TO SAY PLEASE BE STRONG, HELP EACH OTHER SURVIVE, THINK OF ME, EVEN TALK TO ME, IbM WITH YOU EACH DAY, NOW YOUR MEMORIES WILL KEEP ME ALIVE. IbM SORRY IbM NOT THERE, TO PROVE THAT I CARE, AND IbM SORRY FOR ANY TEARS I MADE YOU CRY, IF I EVER TOOK YOU FOR GRANTED, THEN THAT WAS UNFAIR, PLEASE FORGIVE ME, OR AT LEAST, WILL YOU TRY. REMEMBER EACH DAY, AS YOUR SUN GOES AWAY, YOUR NIGHTS ARE NOT AS DARK AS THEY SEEM, IbM THE SHADOWS THAT TOUCH YOU AND KISS YOU GOOD NIGHT, IbLL KEEP YOU WARM AND SAFE IN YOUR DREAMS. I WISH I COULD HUG YOU, HOLD YOU SO TIGHT, AND CHASE AWAY ALL YOUR FEARS, I JUST WISH I COULD SOOTHE AWAY ALL YOUR PAIN, AND KISS AWAY ALL YOUR TEARS. NOW PLEASE REMEMBER MY GRIN, AND THE WAY I WALKED IN, MY HELLO, MY EXCUSES, MY GOODBYE, AND REMEMBER MY DARES, OR JUST THE SCENT OF MY HAIR, AND ALL OUR DREAMS, THAT WERE "PIE IN THE SKY." AND REMEMBER MY LIFE, AND ALL THOSE SONGS THAT I LIKED, OR THE MAD WAY I RAN UP THE STAIRS. WHEN YOU LEFT ME ALONE, I ALWAYS WISHED YOU WOULD PHONE, I ALWAYS MISSED YOU WHEN YOU WERENbT THERE. DRAW STRENGTH FROM ME NOW, MAKE ME PROUD, HOW YOUbLL GROW, RISE ABOVE, SPREAD YOUR WINGS, BE SO FREE, AND MAY PEACE RULE YOUR LIFE, FILLED WITH LAUGHTER AND LOVE, AND FROM TIME TO TIME, THINK OF ME AND WHEN YOU DO, REMEMBER HOW I LOVED YOU. I KNOW HOW MUCH YOU LOVED ME. FRED BEACH SEPT 11TH 2001 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 14:06:36 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Reagan - HIV NJC Susan wrote: > I think one of the most despictable things done in this country AND > dangerous was to allow him to pursue and run a second term, and this > has nothing to do with his politics. I do believe he was propped up > and put in place. I agree, but what was worse was the huge push to repeal Amendment XXII (Two Term Limit on President) so Reagan might be able to run AGAIN! That terrified me, and I was totally prepared to go AWOL (I was in the Air Force, stationed in Germany) and move to Canada if it had happened. I spoke openly about it, and many people thought I was nuts, but I feel exactly the same today. > I am amazed at his density and outright meaness and yet all of you > all still have your lips firmly planted on his sorry ass. What IS up with that? What's all this adoration of Reagan about? I never, ever got it. The man completely scared the shit out of me the entire 8 years he was in office. I'm still pissed off at Mary for voting for him both times (her only reason was that he would do good things for the military - she was in the AF too - but that's no excuse). Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 16:12:02 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: NJC Fred's poem and favorite artists Your poem is beautiful, Fred - thanks for sending it. These were my favorite lines: NOW PLEASE REMEMBER MY GRIN, AND THE WAY I WALKED IN, MY HELLO, MY EXCUSES, MY GOODBYE, AND REMEMBER MY DARES, OR JUST THE SCENT OF MY HAIR, AND ALL OUR DREAMS, THAT WERE "PIE IN THE SKY." AND REMEMBER MY LIFE, AND ALL THOSE SONGS THAT I LIKED, OR THE MAD WAY I RAN UP THE STAIRS. WHEN YOU LEFT ME ALONE, I ALWAYS WISHED YOU WOULD PHONE, I ALWAYS MISSED YOU WHEN YOU WEREN'T THERE. Ten artists I like (hey, I'd almost forgotten about Labi Siffri!): Joni Mitchell Aretha Franklin Curtis Mayfield Rod Stewart Coldplay Fleetwood Mac James Taylor Michael Jackson Suzanne Vega Bkvrk My take-to-the-grave one would be: The Osmonds! from their Crazy Horse days. Giving my age away here. . . And some Kylie Minogue. No, now I'm going too far even for me. . . ;-) Sarah At 4:52 PM -0500 02/02/2003, freddyb4@aol.com wrote: >SO!!!! all of you, it's admit it time, lets see how diverse our tastes are, >list 10 artists/groups you like, but at the end of the list you must include >that secret that you meant to take to the grave, you know, you love The Bay >City Rollers!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:25:07 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) These bloodless brides of Jesus If they had just once glimpsed their groom Then they'd know, and they'd drop the stones Concealed behind their rosaries They wilt the grass they walk upon They leech the light out of a room They'd like to drive us down the drain At the Magdalene laundries Being in ministry as long as I was this hits way to close to home. The idea of having one glimpse of their groom. Joni did just play with the bible she read it. The passion play and other songs show she is actually schooled a bit in the Word. Of course the dropping the stones is the story on the attempted stoning of Mary Magdalene (how appropriate). I always like the scripture reference to the fact the old man dropped the stones first when Jesus made his famous quote. Leech the light out a room is one of the most vividly painted lyrics I have ever heard. This is powerful stuff that has played through history. People of God literally taking the light of Christ out of a room and actually doing evil things. my fave Peace, Craig NP: Dixie Chicks - Traveling Solider ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 17:51:41 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) << People of God literally taking the light of Christ out of a room and actually doing evil things. >> Since I know that Joni wasn't raised Catholic, I always thought Joni's anti-nun venom in this song was pretty strong for someone who probably never had much to do with Catholic clergy. Then someone posted in the last few days that nuns pressured Joni to give up her baby as soon as possible because younger babies are easier to find homes for. Before then I had never understood how painfully personal this song must be for Joni. - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:58:00 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: TABULAR BELLS, no spelling error>>>>>>>NJC In 1980 I had to re-buy a load of stuff that got left during first divorce!! one of the LP's I wanted to have in my collection wasTUBULAR BELLS.... title of mail is not a spelling error..... It "was out of production " so I would have to order an import...... I paid loads of money and waited and waited and eventually got my import with the words TABULAR BELLS on it.... flimsy cover, and no real sleeve notes I could understand...all in Spanish... Put it on the turntable... wonderful... got to the bit where Viv Stanshalls voice cuts in with "Introducing Spanish Guitar".... and a voice says in ENGLISH...but with a heavy Fawlty Towers Manuel Accent,,,,,,,, " Heen tro dew theeeng thpaneeesh ghhheeettarrrr" The whole album was like it... anyone else got a copy of it? His Wunnerfoo...thoopairb... It got used druing a party as a frisbee and is totally dead now but it was a wonderful thing to have owned... somewhere there may even be an old tape I made of it complete with hiss and rumble!!!! Ah the old Sure M75EJ seires II cartridge on a Pioneer PL12D turntable with a ROTEL RX202 amplifier, and an AKAI GX36D (I think) tape deck... WHAT HiFi recommended system of 1975......... Anyway I am off to bed but good day to all of you that still have a day to go through.... Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:00:04 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Reagan - HIV NJC - --- Lori wrote: > I agree, but what was worse was the huge push to repeal Amendment XXII > (Two Term Limit on President) so Reagan might be able to run AGAIN! OMG Lori, I completely forgot about THAT movement! I may have left the country as well. Recent history may paint his presidency well, but I doubt his legacy wll stand the test of time long term. Lori added: > What IS up with that? What's all this adoration of Reagan about? I > never, ever got it. The man completely scared the shit out of me the entire 8 years he was in office. I'm still pissed off at Mary for > voting for him both times (her only reason was that he would do good > things for the military - she was in the AF too - but that's no excuse). I don't know how you did it Lori. I would have stayed mad for eight years if that was my girlfriend! LOL! I don't understand people who are together and have such different politics - bring it on Bree - splain this to me! I hope she converts you! Peace, Susan NP: Joni/T'logue/You Dream Flat Tires Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 18:30:17 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Safe Foods, njc --- sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > Another problem with organic food, Catherine, is > that a lot of it has > been covered in shit from farms, in place of of > pesticides. ... which is why I don't eat mushrooms. They're fungi. And they're grown in shit. Good enough for me! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 15:44:57 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Reagan - HIV NJC > I don't know how you did it Lori. I would have stayed mad for eight > years if that was my girlfriend! LOL! I don't understand people who > are together and have such different politics - The thing is, other than the Reagan disagreement, Mary's and my political opinions are 99.9% the same. As far as her voting for Reagan when she did, we weren't together either of those times. We met in 1981 and spent a lovely summer in Mississippi, then didn't see each other for 18 years. I wonder if I could've influenced her voting if we HAD been together in 1980 and 1984? Hmmm ... Even though our politics ARE the same, I'm still always so surprised and pleased on the occasions when Bush is on TV and Mary says, "I can't fucking stand him; he makes me sick." : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:05:47 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #83 " Thanks " In a message dated 2/2/2003 4:53:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, Freddyb4@aol.com writes: > list 10 artists/groups you like, but at the end of the list you must include > that secret that you meant to take to the grave Here's a random 10 (Besides Joni:) Tom Waits Elvis Costello Bruce Springsteen The Red House Painters Death Cab For Cutie India.Arie Pearl Jam The Cure The Doobie Brothers XTC And my "guilty pleasure"? A tough one because I don't have any secret artists. Tommy James & The Shondells? Subject: Re: Joni in Record Collector I compiled some data found at http://www.robotwisdom.com/jorn/joni.html Peak = peak position, weeks = number of weeks on chart (top 200?) STASG: Peak: #189, weeks: 9 Clouds: Peak: #31, weeks: 36 LOTC: Peak: #27, weeks: 33 Blue: Peak: #15, weeks: 28 FTR: Peak: #11, weeks: 28 CAS: Peak: #2 (4 weeks), weeks: 64 MOA: Peak: #2 (1 week), weeks: 22 THOSL: Peak: #4, weeks: 17 Hejira: Peak: #13, weeks: 18 DJRD: Peak: #25, weeks: 13 Mingus: Peak: #17, weeks: 18 SandL: Peak: #38, weeks: 16 WTRF: Peak: #25, weeks: 21 DED: Peak: #63, weeks: 19 CMIARS: Peak: #45, weeks: 16 NRH: Peak: #41, weeks: 14 TI: Peak: #47, weeks: 10 Of course, what I really want to know is how many total sales have there been to date for each album? Anyone know where one could get that info? At 12:39 AM 2/2/2003 +0000, you wrote: >That was the highest chart position the album got to in the UK. It was 25 in >the US. I'm never quite sure on how the charts are put together but I do >know that in the US airplay might go towards the score where here it is pure >sells. I'm not sure if that is only for US singles and not albums. It's >weird that alot of Joni's music has done slightly better over here >considering she has always had a much bigger profile in the US. What's even >stranger is that Joni has had 5 top 10 albums which have either been top 10 >in the US or in the UK but never both! > >STEVE T > > >"Dan Olson" wrote:- > > Your post suggests an issue: What does it mean for an album to be #20 >(what > > an amazing achievment for DJRD in the UK; I'll bet it never reached that > > here - see post below)? Is it the RATE at which they're selling (taken > > over what period), and do I understand correctly that sales only "count" >if > > they're from major chains like Tower. What's up with that? > > > > At 09:22 PM 1/30/2003 +0000, you wrote: > > >Has anyone seen the Record Collector mag yet? > > >Right at the back they do a '25 years ago' thing and this month they > > >mentioned that DJRD got to number 20 in the UK this month 25 years ago. > > >There is also a photo of Joni holding a rose. I'm guessing it was used to > > >promote the album when it came out. She looks so pretty. One of the best > > >Joni photos I've seen! > > > > > >Stephen Toogood > > > > > > >At 12:45 PM 1/22/2003 -0500, wrote: > > >In the This Month is History section of jmdl, it > > >tells us that THOSL peaked at #4 on the U.S. charts, > > >and HEJIRA peaked at #13. That's amazing, huh? > > >With no hits on the radio? Wow. > > > > > > I had previously suggested that Hejira was the last album that the general > > public bought; a new theory is that DJRD sold poorly because it was a > > double album. Lots of double albums did/do poorly (the White album, > > T'log); I believe there is too much new material to digest properly - It's > > not the right "chunk" of new material. > > > >Stephen Toogood > >"The snow falls like bolts of lace" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:20:25 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) Craig wrote: << People of God literally taking the light of Christ out of a room and actually doing evil things. >> and then Smurph wrote: <<>> now moi: There's lots of pressure from peers, parents, doctors, lawyers, as well as nurses/people who work in the hospital as well as the church to do the "right" thing and relinquish a baby which was born out of "wedlock" (hate that term but that's another issue) Read about the nuns associated with the Magdalene Laundries scandal in Ireland..and see for yourself. Cruel behaviour. ...perhaps that explains the aforementioned venom a la Joan. Mags You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:31:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC Ooh, I like that thread, Fred. I think to really do this justice, I'll list the groups I most adored at the age of 13: The Police, Styx, Hall and Oates, Loverboy, Duran Duran. Thank god I discovered JT, CSN, and Joni not long after that. I still listen to Hall and Oates and Styx on occasion, and the Monkees - I love the Monkees. Whew, feels good to get that off my chest. Jenny Freddyb4@aol.com wrote:I didn't expect to be welcomed by people into this group, and I'm pleased to find that so many are like me, "As daft as a brush," I mean that in the nicest possible way of course. Music is a personal thing, and all of us have liked someone who no-one else seems to like, and maybe Joni and her music is just too deep, for people with a "Wam bam thank you mam" approach to lyrics, and so they just don't try, for me her music reaches inside, and it is hard to understand why some people can't relate to it, yet I don't like the music of Van Morrison, yet so many people do. SO!!!! all of you, it's admit it time, lets see how diverse our tastes are, list 10 artists/groups you like, but at the end of the list you must include that secret that you meant to take to the grave, you know, you love The Bay City Rollers!!! My list Joni Mitchell - especially her earlier work Cat Stevens - James Taylor - Labi Siffri - Beatles - Cheryl Crow - Erasure - Squeese Doris Day - Nat King Cole, I don't care what anyone says, nobody can sing that well. and Doris is a dream, Oh yes she is ! I didn't give this much thought, I could have included Kathleen Farrier, she died in the 50's, and a favourite song on the radio when I was a kid was "Blow the wind Southerly" and if that womans voice doesn't move you, you're not human. The Shuttle disaster means somebody will be missing someone, this is something I wrote on the evening of September 11th, had I lost my life so unexpectedly, I thought about all those thing that are left unsaid, and wondered if it were possible, what I would want to say to my family. Bye for now Fred "REMEMBER ME" CLOSE YOUR EYES, CAN YOU HERE ME? IbVE SOMETHING TO SAY PLEASE BE STRONG, HELP EACH OTHER SURVIVE, THINK OF ME, EVEN TALK TO ME, IbM WITH YOU EACH DAY, NOW YOUR MEMORIES WILL KEEP ME ALIVE. IbM SORRY IbM NOT THERE, TO PROVE THAT I CARE, AND IbM SORRY FOR ANY TEARS I MADE YOU CRY, IF I EVER TOOK YOU FOR GRANTED, THEN THAT WAS UNFAIR, PLEASE FORGIVE ME, OR AT LEAST, WILL YOU TRY. REMEMBER EACH DAY, AS YOUR SUN GOES AWAY, YOUR NIGHTS ARE NOT AS DARK AS THEY SEEM, IbM THE SHADOWS THAT TOUCH YOU AND KISS YOU GOOD NIGHT, IbLL KEEP YOU WARM AND SAFE IN YOUR DREAMS. I WISH I COULD HUG YOU, HOLD YOU SO TIGHT, AND CHASE AWAY ALL YOUR FEARS, I JUST WISH I COULD SOOTHE AWAY ALL YOUR PAIN, AND KISS AWAY ALL YOUR TEARS. NOW PLEASE REMEMBER MY GRIN, AND THE WAY I WALKED IN, MY HELLO, MY EXCUSES, MY GOODBYE, AND REMEMBER MY DARES, OR JUST THE SCENT OF MY HAIR, AND ALL OUR DREAMS, THAT WERE "PIE IN THE SKY." AND REMEMBER MY LIFE, AND ALL THOSE SONGS THAT I LIKED, OR THE MAD WAY I RAN UP THE STAIRS. WHEN YOU LEFT ME ALONE, I ALWAYS WISHED YOU WOULD PHONE, I ALWAYS MISSED YOU WHEN YOU WERENbT THERE. DRAW STRENGTH FROM ME NOW, MAKE ME PROUD, HOW YOUbLL GROW, RISE ABOVE, SPREAD YOUR WINGS, BE SO FREE, AND MAY PEACE RULE YOUR LIFE, FILLED WITH LAUGHTER AND LOVE, AND FROM TIME TO TIME, THINK OF ME AND WHEN YOU DO, REMEMBER HOW I LOVED YOU. I KNOW HOW MUCH YOU LOVED ME. FRED BEACH SEPT 11TH 2001 Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 00:38:20 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC favorite artists Carly Simon Joni Mitchell Dar Williams Janis Ian Tracy Chapman Carole King Tori Amos Donna Summer Enigma The Pet Shop Boys Abba no secrets to take to the grave with me. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 18:50:04 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: NJC Safe Foods: it gets worse http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20030201/wxfood0201/Front/homeBN/breakingnews ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:55:23 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC favorite artists Welcome to the JMDL Fred. No secrets to the grave here: Joni Annie Lenox Steely Dan Pet Shop Boys any of the Big Bands Hall & Oats (Hi Jenny) James Taylor Patsy Kline Lots of Soundtracks (favorite is "Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" Janet Jackson There's more, but I just woke up from a nap! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:40:26 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: joni for the new generation my neice who is 23 & a very talented singer/songwriter (winner of the international gospel association award last year) was raised & heavily influenced by joni & one of her other major influences/inspiration is pj harvey...this is someone i have been meaning to but not yet listened to yet...so, where should i start? at the beginning? terry >> and i never seem to be able to put my finger on exactly why i think this....but pj harvey is the joni mitchell for the new generation.>> ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:12:36 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) Hi Mags, you wrote: > There's lots of pressure from peers, parents, doctors, lawyers, as well as nurses/people who work in the hospital as >well as the church to do the "right" thing and relinquish a baby which was born out of "wedlock" (hate that term but >that's another issue) Read about the nuns associated with the Magdalene Laundries scandal in Ireland..and see for >yourself. Cruel behaviour. ...perhaps that explains the aforementioned venom a la Joan. I think Joni might have a love/hate relationship with those old-world nuns she was exposed to and also, I think, when she was in the hospital long-term with polio as a child. Why did she turn to them again when she was pregnant? One can argue that they were there for her when she felt she apparently had nowhere else to go. Now I'm wondering about social services in Canada back at that time. Were there no other options for her and was welfare assistance not available to her? I recall a "home" here in LA for unwed mothers back in that time period which was not affiliated with any religion and was supported by philanthropists. I remember that some woman and young girls would go there even though they could have stayed at home with their parents for the duration of the pregnancy. They did it because of the "stigma" at the time. They could disappear for a few months and then come back to school and make up any story to explain their absence. Sad. My recollection from the Joni articles and interviews is that she kept her baby for awhile and then sould not support her alone. She then put her in a foster home. Joni had photos of Kilauren as a baby and that is one of the ways she knew Kilauren was her daughter - because Kilauren also had baby photos from the same age which matched Joni's. Chuck promised to take the baby, she thought she could take the baby back. Then Chuck reneged and Joni had to "sign all the papers." Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 19:36:11 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: NJC favorite artists I LOVE Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. Another very funny film is La Cage aux Folles, but in the original French, not with English subtitles. You need the original version to hear that squeal! Sarah At 7:55 PM -0500 02/02/2003, FMYFL@aol.com wrote: >Lots of Soundtracks (favorite is "Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the >Desert" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 19:41:19 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) I suppose it's something in your mind, Kakki, even if there's welfare help available. Something put the idea in her mind that she couldn't cope alone, couldn't be a mother, was a "child with a child, pretending." Maybe a sense of worthlessness, or an inability to self-define. I can only guess. Whatever it was, it must have been heartbreaking. Sarah At 5:12 PM -0800 02/02/2003, kakki wrote: >I think Joni might have a love/hate relationship with those old-world nuns >she was exposed to and also, I think, when she was in the hospital long-term >with polio as a child. Why did she turn to them again when she was >pregnant? One can argue that they were there for her when she felt she >apparently had nowhere else to go. Now I'm wondering about social services >in Canada back at that time. Were there no other options for her and was >welfare assistance not available to her? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:50:52 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Musical tastes we'll take to the grave REVEALED! NJC Okay I'll play too! Well normally I list all my girls - my posse! (45 year old fat old white woman and she's got a posse). Hell look at Vince and his gang of thugs ... JK Vince! ;-D Anyway I thought I would try to include a more encompassing group so here they are: Joni Mitchell The Beatles (especially the Lennon stuff - LAMA!) Phoebe Snow (my sister ;-P) Rickie Lee Jones CSN & Y The Doors Joan Armatrading The Moody Blues James Taylor Dinah Washington Van Morrison (had to do it Fred) Patti Smith (not that smythe girl) Okay shoot me there are 12! I hate rules ... so here's some more ... With Patsy Cline & Shawn Colvin as very honorable mentions. Others I love Bonnie Raitt, Diane Schuur, Billie Holiday, Janis, Nina Simone Anne Lennox .... And the one that I guess I am NOT taking to my grave .... Mel Torme! The velvet frog baby! The best scatting I ever heard was Mel and Ella, who should also be up there on my list, in a duet, it was the epitome of COOOL! BY the way Jenny - being from Chicago I got to hear plenty of STYX - If I ever hear "Lady" again ... I am gonna put on the fatigues and start shooting! LOL! Fred I loved your poem, it really hit home for me on a personal level. And it is so fitting for it's original intent and for today's as well. Welcome Home Fred! Peace, Susan NP: STYX - NOT! Diane Schuur/For Your Love Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:45:29 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) Sarah wrote: > I suppose it's something in your mind, Kakki, even if there's welfare > help available. . Whatever it was, it must have been > heartbreaking. Just as a preface - some people on the list get very upset when this subject is discussed - so just so they won't (hopefully) jump on me - I have never sat in judgment of Joni for her life experiences. I know it must have been heartbreaking because I'm old enough to remember societal mores back then and the truly helpless position of many women and girls in her situation. I had a few friends and acquantinances in the same situation growing up. I'm absolutely not suggesting she should have done everything she could have to keep her baby. I was specifically curious as to why she chose to go to a Catholic home to help her during her pregnancy and whether there were not any other options (like a government-funded facility or a Protestant-affiliated home, etc.) that she could have turned to instead. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 18:01:32 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Billboard reviews BYT single COUNTING CROWS Big Yellow Taxi (3:56) Producer: Ron Fair Writer: J. Mitchell Publisher: Siquomb, BMI Geffen/Interscope (CD Promo) "Big Yellow Taxi" has certainly been down the highway a few times, with charted versions by originator Joni Mitchell, Janet Jackson, and Amy Grant. Counting Crows somehow manage to jump-start new life into the old jalopy, while adding an amiable rock edge that shakes out any suspected tread wear. The song is perfectly suited to Adam Durwitz's folksy storytelling vocal style and in fact, conjures fond memories of the group's quirky 1994 bow, "Mr. Jones." Producer Ron Fair stripped on Vanessa Carlton in one version to sing a series of "bop bops" in the background (a seemingly self-serving move, considering that he produced her debut), which adds an appreciable playfulness. It's been a while since these guys have burned up the charts, but "Taxi" is certainly a warm reminder of the Crows' undeniable verve. A worthy contender.--CT [Chuck Taylor] In the spirit of synchronicity, on another page of the same issue, there is a strange ad by a guy named Van Gogh holding a guitar with the quote "I'll cut off one of my ears...if I don't get a deal in 2 years" [hey, he knows how to rhyme] Began 3/21/01, he then appeals to Sheryl Crow, Lenny Kravitz, Dave Matthews, Alanis and Anthony and Flea of RHCP to pass a recommendation to a professional manager or record company on his behalf, so he will be saved from a "harsh fate and eternal ridicule. My time is very limited". I'm not making this shit up. This guy has less than 3 weeks. Or his ear does, anyway. Dear Theo, ......... RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 20:17:06 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) Kakki, I wasn't trying to suggest you were being less than sympathetic. No, I know what you mean. She was old enough to keep her baby, and in theory there were people who could have helped in a different way. That's what I meant when I said it ends up being something in your mind. Something caused her to believe she couldn't do it, and maybe she was right about herself, or she made it right, who knows? We can't think ourselves into her position, not exactly. I suppose in going to the nuns, you go to what you know, even if you despise it. Maybe they were the ones who put the sense of worthlessness into her in the first place. I'm guessing wildly here, because I have no idea, but it wouldn't surprise me. There may even have been an element of self-punishment in it: I'm not good enough, I'll give the baby to people who will know I'm not good enough etc. Odd ideas can lodge in young girls' minds with surprising ferocity, and they often come out in the first flush of a pregnancy - feelings of self-disgust, low self-esteem, self-hatred, lack of self-definition. For that reason, it's important to keep young girls (boys too, but for other reasons) away from people who will make them feel inadequate or inferior - and sadly, the Catholic Church has a reputation for excelling in those areas. Sarah At 5:45 PM -0800 02/02/2003, kakki wrote: >. . I have neversat in judgment of Joni for her life experiences. I >know it must have been >heartbreaking because I'm old enough to remember societal mores back then >and the truly helpless position of many women and girls in her situation. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 20:19:58 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: NJC favorite artists Sorry, I meant to write the original French with subtitles is good, but NOT the one dubbed into English. At 7:36 PM -0700 02/02/2003, sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: >Another very funny film is La Cage aux Folles, but in the original >French, not with English subtitles. You need the original version >to hear that squeal! > >Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:39:40 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #39 Taming the Tiger print To Fauchja, I recently got a Taming the Tiger poster ( not print) off of Ebay. That's where I get all of my joni stuff. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 18:44:47 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) njc or not? in response to Kakki, Sarah wrote: <<>> I often step into the discussion on this subject because I feel so strongly about it (shaky as I write) with the view and purpose of educating those who may not understand what *it* was like back then for our Joan , as a young woman, single, pregnant, no support, precious little choice in the real sense of the word. I wish to make it very clear that while I do not assume to speak for Joni, (only she can do that) , I will speak from my own first hand experience...and since I've been there and done a lot of work/advocacy/research/public speaking/been published on this experience I feel that Ive got a lot to say and a lot to share from the inside, out. First of all, the way 'society' was set up, it was an unwritten expectation that young women would surrender their babies for adoption. And all the ducks were lined up in a row to have that happen. The doctors, lawyers, hospitals, homes for unwed moms, and many of the families of origin ... all heads were pointed in the direction of the one and only choice/option available for these women. It seemed as though they had a ready made script memorized. There was a great deal of judgement and persistant pressure placed directly upon the woman, not the man, but the woman. She was the one who had to ultimately 'deal' with the situation. And believe me, as a woman in the situation, you internalize that to the place that you are branded Jezebel. Shame and blame become your middle names. You wear them like skin. They permeate your cells. You begin to live into that because it comes to you in many ways .. subtle and not so subtle., that look, that deafening silence when you walk in the room, when obviously you are not wearing a wedding ring, when the conclusion and split second judgement are made. Your crime? You had sex. You werent married. That said, Im sure there were some men who stood their ground and stayed by the side of the woman, however, there are countless cases where that did not happen. I wont even go into the 'why', that's a little off the beaten path of my discussion here. Even siblings turned their backs away in shame . And there you are, you are the one carrying this child. Gives a whole new meaning to the words alone, lonely. Damn. Everyone else has something to say about it, about what you should do or not do. And in those days, I feel that communications were pretty difficult between parents and kids, at least speaking from the experience of mine as well as other girls/women who were terrified of what Mom and Dad would do if they ever found out. Joni herself has said that she kept the pregnancy / birth of her daughter from her parents. What else could she do? So you stand alone on the doorstep to some coffee shop in your home town at 2 am shivering because you've run out of money, having spent it on four of those tiny metal pots of tea....until you realize you have to do something...you feel completely and utterly abandoned by everyone around you including and especially by the ahole that helped to get you here in the first place. It takes two, and it is amazing how quickly he forgets that little detail, oh how short his memory becomes. And guess what. No one sticks by you when facing a decision such as this one. So it feels. And in the shock of those long and painstaking minutes, hours, days, weeks, months to follow, you can never really come to grips with the weight and reality that you really truly are carrying a life beneath your heart. It is simultaneously exhilerating and devastating. You want to be happy, isnt that what new moms are supposed to do...and yet you know you've never felt real fear until now. And it never ever feels real. Until finally, Kick, kick, roll turn push kick some more...yea then you know it's real around the 16 week mark and then you try to push it down some more and deny deny deny.Wear baggy clothes, slouch, hide, dont go out unless you absolutely have to and for god's sake, dont look anyone in the eye. What the hell else are you to do. As far as I know , there was zero support socially, emotionally, economically for women to keep their babies. How? That's the big question. Welfare, a well intentioned plan that never did provide a living wage for anyone , let alone a young inexperienced woman who may have been as young as 13 or as old as 21 or 27 and so on. In the end, the age doesnt really matter...you become one of the assembly line, schlepped along the conveyor belt towards your own oblivion. As to why Joan ended up seeking the so called "support" of the nuns...I imagine she was pretty scared and panicky...perhaps a Catholic Hospital was the option she felt she had going for her , or perhaps she walked in a trance like state, common in this kind of situation, into a Catholic Childrens Aid Society, which was no doubt affiliated with a Catholic Home For UnWed Mothers or any number of names disguised as the same. I think Ive said enough. thanks for bringing it up...and mostly, thanks for listening to my passion about this subject. Mags You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 18:57:34 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Where does Joni stand, njc "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote: > I have to chime in with a quote from the re-released "All Things Must Pass" > by George Harrison. I'm really enjoying it especially on CD because one of > the LPs I bought oh-so-long-ago was pressed with an off-center hole! Some > songs wobbled. > > Anyway, in "Beware Of Darkness", brother George's trademark humor shines > through: > > "Beware of fallllll-ing > swingers." > > As a survivor of bad management at the hands of Lennon's choice, George also > warns, > > "Beware of.... ABKCO." Way recommended, this may be George's finest hour. > Of course, McCartney had the brilliant "Ram" about that time. Gees, it's a > shame that Ringo and that hack Lennon never came though as solos. > > Lama > (yes, I'm baiting the John Lennon fans) Yes, you are....and while I like a great deal of the solo post-Beatles stuff (hell, I even like Wings' Wildlife), I will defend "John Lennon/ Plastic Ono Band" (1970) as the top of the heap. All Things Must Pass is chock-full of great tunes that were welling up in George all that time he was doing the 103rd take of Maxwell's Silver Hammer, etc. btw there is a bootleg called "Beware of Abkco" that has the complete solo demos that ATMP hints at. Snag if you can. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 19:06:59 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni in Record Collector Interesting, Dan... While Mingus is generally blamed as the point in which Joni's carreer took a dive (even by herself), this table reveals that DJRD was the first release since Blue to drop below the top 20, at #25 as well as the third quickest to drop off the charts altogether. Mingus even rebounded to #17. As for sales, with Kate I cry "Brenda!" RR Dan Olson wrote: > I compiled some data found at http://www.robotwisdom.com/jorn/joni.html > Peak = peak position, weeks = number of weeks on chart (top 200?) > > STASG: Peak: #189, weeks: 9 > Clouds: Peak: #31, weeks: 36 > LOTC: Peak: #27, weeks: 33 > Blue: Peak: #15, weeks: 28 > FTR: Peak: #11, weeks: 28 > CAS: Peak: #2 (4 weeks), weeks: 64 > MOA: Peak: #2 (1 week), weeks: 22 > THOSL: Peak: #4, weeks: 17 > Hejira: Peak: #13, weeks: 18 > DJRD: Peak: #25, weeks: 13 > Mingus: Peak: #17, weeks: 18 > SandL: Peak: #38, weeks: 16 > WTRF: Peak: #25, weeks: 21 > DED: Peak: #63, weeks: 19 > CMIARS: Peak: #45, weeks: 16 > NRH: Peak: #41, weeks: 14 > TI: Peak: #47, weeks: 10 > > Of course, what I really want to know is how many total sales have there > been to date for each album? Anyone know where one could get that info? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 21:11:30 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) njc or not? Mags, thanks for sending that. I hope you'll send more if you ever want to. Sarah At 6:44 PM -0800 02/02/2003, Mags N Brei wrote: >It is simultaneously exhilerating and devastating. You want to be >happy, isnt that what new moms are supposed to do...and yet you know >you've never felt real fear until now. And it never ever feels real. >Until finally, Kick, kick, roll turn push kick some more...yea then >you know it's real around the 16 week mark and then you try to push >it down some more and deny deny deny.Wear baggy clothes, slouch, >hide, dont go out unless you absolutely have to and for god's sake, >dont look anyone in the eye. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:19:50 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Safe Foods: it gets worse --- sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20030201/wxfood0201/Front/homeBN/breakingnews That is scary. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 21:28:43 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Fave Joni Lines (Magdalene Laundries) NJC When I wrote this, I was thinking more of a modern day mindset. But as Mags pointed out, things were so different then, we can hardly imagine it. I remember seeing a television program about unmarried women in Ireland whose children were removed from them and given up for adoption. They were speaking out about it for the first time, having kept the baby a secret all these years, even from the men they subsequently married. It made me very sad and angry to think of all the women over the years who have been denied choice - either because they were literally forced to part with children or, as Mags said, the ducks were all lined up. . . Sarah At 8:17 PM -0700 02/02/2003, sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: >That's what I meant when I said it ends up being something in your >mind. Something caused her to believe she couldn't do it, and maybe >she was right about herself, or she made it right, who knows? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 19:42:30 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Magdalene Laundries Listen to Joni's Magdalene Laundries, to Little Green, the Chinese Cafe...there are clues all over the place about the deep impression her experience made upon her . And if anyone gets the notion that women do forget and are able to get on with their lives, Id say that the fact that Joni decided to search for Kelly Green many years later is testimony to the fact that she indeed did not forget. None of us do. http://www.rlff.com/db_world02/cinema.cgi/films/view_178.htm Sarah, this talks about a film made about the Magdalene sisters...and you know, there may be more info.... like this: http://www.adoptionireland.com/media/magdalenesistersreview.htm sl.m@shaw.ca wrote:When I wrote this, I was thinking more of a modern day mindset. But as Mags pointed out, things were so different then, we can hardly imagine it. I remember seeing a television program about unmarried women in Ireland whose children were removed from them and given up for adoption. They were speaking out about it for the first time, having kept the baby a secret all these years, even from the men they subsequently married. It made me very sad and angry to think of all the women over the years who have been denied choice - either because they were literally forced to part with children or, as Mags said, the ducks were all lined up. . . Sarah At 8:17 PM -0700 02/02/2003, sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: >That's what I meant when I said it ends up being something in your >mind. Something caused her to believe she couldn't do it, and maybe >she was right about herself, or she made it right, who knows? You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #85 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)