From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #84 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, February 2 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 084 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Classic rock available on SACD, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] joni for the new generation [ROSCOE1TC@aol.com] Hi from the list and welcome NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Hi from the list and welcome NJC [sl.m@shaw.ca] cats njc ["ron" ] Taming the Tiger print [Fauchja@aol.com] THE SHUTTLE ["Lucy Hone" ] RE: kawfee NJC ["Gillian Apter" ] Re: Taming the Tiger print [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Be Cool [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Reagan - HIV NJC [Susan Guzzi ] Re: joni is a sheep (or ram)! njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Safe Foods, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC Why the Left is wrong on Saddam [Catherine McKay ] Re: Classic rock available on SACD, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: SHUTTLE NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni for the new generation [Little Bird ] possible Joni content [Kent Southard ] CD vs. Vinyl (Joni) [Little Bird ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #31 [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: yvette in english [Bobsart48@aol.com] NJC Re: yvette in english [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Gays' interest in Joni [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Crosby and Joni [Bobsart48@aol.com] Covers #37 A Prime collection [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Covers #37 - Win a freebie! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Safe Foods, njc ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: SHUTTLE NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: Safe Foods, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Where does Joni stand, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Hook, Line & Sinker sjc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: SHUTTLE NJC [colin ] Re: Covers #37 A Prime collection [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #37 [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: CD vs. Vinyl (Joni) [Dan Olson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:03:04 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Classic rock available on SACD, njc JT: Hourglass, JT, and October Road (!) $20 each. I suppose you could always buy the $45 gold CD version of "Dad Loves His Work". Naw. (advertised by a store called "Acoustic Sounds" in Kansas) I'll bet that SACD & DVD-Audio have killed the market for premium priced CDs. If you can get better sound for less money.... On the CD scene: I just replace my cheesy $140 cd player with a better sounding unit. It's a $50 portable unit but "upgraded" power supply. I'm finding out exactly which tracks on jt's classic "Walking Man" album have multi-tracked lead vocal and which don't. This baby has detail I never heard before and it's *almost* not gritty. And the bass is way better than my old 5 disc Sony. (It's not the hockey arena single tom-tom type of non-bass; you can hear the fret board.) Instead of powering it with a cheesy wall wart, I'm feeding it 4.5 volts from 3 D cells from a bastardized Magi Light and a homebrew cord. No AC line ripple is gonna ruin this! I know. No one cares. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:16:00 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: "Ansel Adams at 100" show in L.A., njc Cross-post from my camera owners' list: > For anyone near Los Angles in the spring, the "Ansel Adams at 100" > exhibit has arrived. It will open Sunday, Feb 2, and go to sometime in > May at LACMA. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 04:26:55 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: SHUTTLE NJC In his book on the USA space program, "The Right Stuff", Tom Wolfe wrote about the early test pilots who lost control of the X-1 and perished during test flights. He said that for the most part, the other test pilots shook off each new loss until they heard the last few minutes of audio when the pilot was realizing things were amiss. Typically, the pilot was ticking off plan b, plan c, plan d, plan e, plan f. Like this: "I've tried the flaps. No good. I'll ease on some thrust, here. Huh. No good. Now I'm gonna try an outside loop. No good. I'm gonna try....." There's a moment in those tapes. Then the g-forces mercifully knocked them unconscious and they 'augured in'. But the Mercury program worked. Then the Gemini program worked. Then we lost astronauts Grisham, White and Chaffe during practice on the ground, which resulted in a fire in Apollo 1. Then the Soviets lost good people. The space program learned and we came back. And finally I remember, as a 14 year-old, hearing this discussion inside a space capsule in trouble and running out of fuel: Buzz: "60 seconds (left)." Neil: "Okay." Buzz: "Uh-oh. Program Alarm" Neil: "I'm on it." Buzz: "45 seconds." Neil: "Okay....." Buzz: "30 seconds." Neil: "Okay." Buzz: "20, 19, 18.." Neil: "Houston? Uh... Tranquility Base, here. The Eagle has landed." Capsule Communicator: "Roger that. Understand yer on the GROUND!" Capsule Communicator: Capsule Communicator: Capsule Communicator: "You had some of us worried down here." Capsule Communicator: Neil: "Roger that." It was July 20th, 1969 and it was the first time somebody walked on another world. Lama Debra said, >> This makes me very sad. Even knowing that the astronauts realize the risks, to be completely blown away so suddenly still makes me cry, and to think that most people, myself included, take for granted the work they and other astronauts do since it all goes so smoothly so often, well, it's not a good idea to ever take anything or anyone for granted. I've seen three videos of the burning shuttle. That's enough now. >> >Rose said, >I hope they didn't know what was coming, but I fear they did:0) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 04:55:49 EST From: ROSCOE1TC@aol.com Subject: joni for the new generation i've been saying it for years, and maybe, now, someone will take me seriously. i''m not saying their styles are similar, and i never seem to be able to put my finger on exactly why i think this....but pj harvey is the joni mitchell for the new generation. if you had started with pj on her first release and then progressed with her through the decade, perhaps you could help me verbalize the parallels... perhaps it's just that no one else could touch her. perhaps it is the undeniable presence of this thing called "art." perhaps it is that each release saw her entering new territory--breaking new ground. i really do believe this. i really do. :-) terry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:00:22 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Hi from the list and welcome NJC Fred it was YOU, that was always hovering by my elbow druing the 70-71 onwards era.....and buying exactly the same LP's as me....... wasn't it.... and to think I thought you were a ghost, and here you are on the JMDL...Phew, there is one of my psychoses banished!!!! LOL You will find the list to be welcoming, enthusiastic, extremely kind and wonderfully up for discussion about anything and everything, witty, scatty, and FUN FUN FUN and also serious, thoughtful and above all HUMAN. If you are a JONI ONLY subscriber you wont get to see this posting so that is why I have sent you a mail direct....... If you are a general digest subscriber then may i advise you to be VERY VERY SURE you put NJC on the subject line if your mail is not about JONI... The Joni Onlies get very upset and we sometimes forget in our enthusiasm to jump in on a topic... I know about this as I am new to the list too and didn't do this and was reminded kindly about my mistake....;-) I live in Hampshire so welcome to the UK contingent that so far includes Colin, and Chris,and a few others but those are the ones in the UK I have mailed. You will make "friends" all over the globe on this site...welcome... Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 04:13:11 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Hi from the list and welcome NJC Hi Fred, Welcome to the list! I'm from the UK too but living in Canada at the moment. Lived most of my life in London, then in Broadstairs in Kent, right on the beach. Now living up to my eyebrows in snow in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, wherever that it. As Lucy said, you'll find a wonderful bunch of people on this list - erudite, clever, responsive and sensitive. Enjoy. . . ;-) Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 05:57:49 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: cats njc hi since so many people here seem to have cats..... one of my favourite quotes : There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats. Albert Schweitzer - obviously a man of immaculate tastes!!!! ron np - martha & the muffins (the original eminems???) about insomnia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:11:42 EST From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Taming the Tiger print I was one of the lucky ones. I got a copy of the TTT print when I saw Joni with Bob at U of M several years ago. My sister, who had a cat identical to the one Joni's holding in the painting, wants that print! And, I have it, 2 of the 4 prints from BSN, and my signed Country Joe poster in my bedroom. Bottom line = anybody know where I can find/buy/get a copy of the TTT print? Fauchja (pronounced Facha - my dog's name) NP: Statesboro Blues - Roy Bookbinder ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:15:51 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: THE SHUTTLE HI to the list(s)..... I have left of NJC as this is something the Joni Onlies may want to get anyway... apologies if not, but this is a global community and when a tragedy strikes I think we need to be able to show our support and thoughts from around the world. Anyway, from this small corner of England come thoughts for the husbands, wives and children of the shuttle crew and also to you listers who may be feeling so very shocked... "they lent the world a light" Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:20:16 +0100 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: RE: kawfee NJC Wally wrote > what do you call a cortado in spain and in cataluna? a cortado here is an > expresso ''pocillo'' (the small, small cup) with a some milk. Here in Madrid, Wally, a "cortado" is a small strong black coffee in a wee cup with a dash of milk. A "solo" is the same without the milk, and an "Americano" is a large weaker coffee (they just put extra hot water in it) with no milk. The good old cafi con leche is about twice the size of the Cortado coffee with a lot more milk in it. In madrid they usually ask you is you want you cafi con leche in a glass or a cup. I never knew why. Maybe it's about time I asked. all the best, gill (in Madrid) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:01:55 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Taming the Tiger print In a message dated 2/2/2003 7:12:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, Fauchja@aol.com writes: > anybody know where I can find/buy/get a copy of the TTT print? > That print shows up on Ebay fairly often...probably doesn't cost much either. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:05:43 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Be Cool In a message dated 2/2/2003 12:11:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > Is it love? Is it showbiz? Or is it simply life? > You could probably make a case for all of those things, Andrew, but I've always heard it as being about love. Most of the other tracks on the record are about love/relationships, plus there's the "kick off that flaky valentine" bit which to me places it squarely in the mode of a love relationship. Bob, who also loves the T'log version - particularly when Joni sings "Don't WHINE..." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 05:34:55 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Reagan - HIV NJC I am just flabbergasted! I can't believe the narrow-mindedness and stubborness Bree! I only recently had this discussion in real life, I actually do see people outside of cyber space LOL! I believe in my opinion, that Regan had Alzheimers, granted in it's early stages AND that everyone knew, especially those in his inner circle! In their attempts to maintain the White House, they did what they needed to do to keep that underwraps. Like you AND others, I have no concrete proof - that's right YOU DON"T either.However, I will never forget his debate, where he went off on some tangent in response to a question. He started talking about driving in a car and going up the coast and it had absolutely NO relevance, yet most of America sat there nodding like they understood. Much in that "Chauncy Gardner" kind of way. Many, including myself, recognized his illness right then and there. Please see "Being There"with Peter Sellers! I think one of the most despictable things done in this country AND dangerous was to allow him to pursue and run a second term, and this has nothing to do with his politics. I do believe he was propped up and put in place. Oh there goes that leftist conspircy theorist again - NO! I am amazed at his density and outright meaness and yet all of you all still have your lips firmly planted on his sorry ass.OH and I am so sure that tight ass Nancy, would be the one to tell all. Talk about liberal and pacifists being dreamers. What ever you're on - may I have some please?! ;-)Does anyone want to know how I really feel? LOL!Still ... Peace,Susan--- Bree wrote: > There have been several people from Reagan's inner circle and some that were > not from his inner circle..let's see.. speechwriter Peggy Noonan being one.. > unequivocally say the Reagan DID NOT exhibit any dementia type behavior > while in office. I know it is widely disseminated that he was ..well.was > not as sharp in his second term. Of course..Nancy would be the one to > really know and I don't know if she has ev! er spoken about this prior to his > dementia with Alzheimer's type being reported in ..I believe 1994? And > Kakki..writing about her father below..she could spot it. You can not prop > somebody up that has dementia..in other words try to get them up and give a > speech with the same finesse that they once had..IT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. I > have watched Reagan's speeches...new conferences..etc,..from his second > term..and I would say he was the same Reagan... just a little older.> > Bree> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:20:26 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni is a sheep (or ram)! njc --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > happy chinese new year everyone!!!!! i know how to > say it in chinese but i > don't how to write it, so just imagine me in my best > madam sin clothes > saying it in perfect mandarin. That's quite an image, Wally. Gung hay fat choy. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:25:17 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #82 Where does Joni stand --- Freddyb4@aol.com wrote: > Joni Mitchell was awsome, and I doubt if any > other female artist will > ever create such a volume of original work. Joni would tear a strip off you for that line alone, as she doesn't like being categorized as a "female" artist. I can't think of any male artists who have created such a volume of original work but then again, I guess you could say I'm prejudiced. Welcome to the list, Fred. Enjoy your stay. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:31:13 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Safe Foods, njc --- Kate Bennett wrote: > maybe its not as available in france but here in the > usa or at least > california you can get all of these things you > mentioned (& more) in organic > form...no pesticides, hormones, antibiotics, et The problem with so much of the organic foods is the cost - it costs about three times as much as the, um, inorganic kind. On that note, the expression "organic" does kind of make me laugh. The opposite is "inorganic" and we don't eat much in the way of inorganic things, except for salt. And, if you want to be really paranoid about it, as I sometimes am, even the organically grown stuff grows in soil that has no doubt been subjected to contamination of some kind, and is rained on by acid rain. I realize I'm going too far with this. I do try to buy organic whenever I can - you can find lots of it in Toronto but, well, it's expensive. Thinking of converting my entire backyard into a vegetable garden this year, but only if I can get someone with a bulldozer in to turn over the grass first! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:33:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Safe Foods, njc --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > Bree..who's munching on "Laughing Cow Cheese" and > crackers > Have you ever wondered why that cow is laughing? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:34:51 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Why the Left is wrong on Saddam --- sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > Another good article on the war in tomorrow's > Observer: > > http://www.observer.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,887184,00.html How can you be reading tomorrow's papers today? Have you found a way through the space/time continuum? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:36:36 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Be Cool --- Little Bird wrote: > I'm sitting here playing the lyrics to "Be Cool" in > my > head, attempting to get my work done. Given the > recent > "over heated" events in my revealing little mishap, > I > thought it was time to cool down and keep things > lite. > > > So, I was wondering, what is "this game" that Joni > is > referring to in the song? > > "If there's one rule to this game > Everybody's gonna name it's be cool..." > > Is it love? Is it showbiz? Or is it simply life? > All of the above. This is Joni talking. She never means just one thing (whether she knows it or not!) And, like you, I do love the T version of this song better than the original. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:41:19 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Classic rock available on SACD, njc --- "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote: > Instead of powering it with a cheesy wall wart, I'm > feeding it 4.5 volts > from 3 D cells from a bastardized Magi Light and a > homebrew cord. No AC > line ripple is gonna ruin this! I know. No one > cares. Some of us might, if we could understand what the hell you were talking about (speaking of inorganic food!) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:39:46 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Carole King Video NJC Does anyone have a video copy of the Carole King BBC show (71 or 72) they'd be willing to copy for me as a trade??? (must be in the U.S. format...) I've got some cool video things, both Joni and otherwise, or I can send multiple CDs if we can't find a suitable video. Please let me know - I'd forgotten all about htis program until Fred reminded me of it's existence! As I am now Joni Only, please email me 'oof-list' at whizzboom@attbi.com Thanks! - -Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 09:44:43 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: SHUTTLE NJC --- "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote: > In his book on the USA space program, "The Right > Stuff", Tom Wolfe wrote > about the early test pilots who lost control of the > X-1 and perished during > test flights. He said that for the most part, the > other test pilots shook > off each new loss until they heard the last few > minutes of audio when the > pilot was realizing things were amiss. ... > Debra said, > >> > This makes me very sad. Even knowing that the > astronauts realize the > risks, to be completely blown away so suddenly still > makes me cry, and > to think that most people, myself included, take for > granted the work > they and other astronauts do since it all goes so > smoothly so often, > well, it's not a good idea to ever take anything or > anyone for granted. You know what's amazing? That it doesn't happen more often. Like ALL the time. This stuff probably shouldn't work - but it does. Most of the time. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 07:50:36 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: joni for the new generation Hey Terry - I appreciate your argument for PJ Harvey. She is indeed extremely talented. Having said that, I don't think anyone can really be called "the new Joni Mitchell." I know that Joni herself kind of resents the idea of a new "her" since she is still very much alive and well! Why replace one with another? I'm of the generation that should find people like PJ Harvey more interesting and relevant than Joni Mitchell but I think Joni has tremendous resonance for people in their mid-20s. Whether they are listening or not is another matter, but the wisdom contained in some of her older records far exceeds the level of brilliance on any "new" record I've heard. I'd look to Joni for generational understanding before I'd look to PJ Harvey. Also, I think a case could be made for a lot of musicians who have followed in Joni's footsteps and carved out a similar path for themselves. My vote goes to Annie Lennox, who has been in the game since the late 70s and is just starting to be recognized as an astounding contributor to music, with her recent "Contribution to Music" Brit Award and her 2002 Billboard Century Award. One writer said about her, "Annie Lennox is the missing link between Joni Mitchell and the future." To say ONE artist is the NEW Joni Mitchell is excluding a whole roster of interesting people, not all of them women, who have learned from Joni's example, although as I say above PJ Harvey is certainly among that group. Still, there's only one Joni and as long as she's around (probably even after she's gone) she'll be regarded as the gold standard for any musician of any generation. - -Andrew ROSCOE1TC@aol.com wrote:i've been saying it for years, and maybe, now, someone will take me seriously. i''m not saying their styles are similar, and i never seem to be able to put my finger on exactly why i think this....but pj harvey is the joni mitchell for the new generation. if you had started with pj on her first release and then progressed with her through the decade, perhaps you could help me verbalize the parallels... perhaps it's just that no one else could touch her. perhaps it is the undeniable presence of this thing called "art." perhaps it is that each release saw her entering new territory--breaking new ground. i really do believe this. i really do. :-) terry Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 08:10:39 -0800 From: Kent Southard Subject: possible Joni content Many of my Joni CD's are the HDCD encoded ones, and I'd wondered how much better they might sound on a player that had that capability - the NAD 571t has the HDCD feature, and as it's currently selling at half price, $400, I got one. And the difference is truly extraordinary, my system sounds like I just spent thousands rather than a few hundred. Clearer, richer, punchier, more detailed than you can believe. My previous CD player (also NAD) in comparison made the music seem like a paint by numbers picture with most of the canvas left white. I have so much respect for Joni Mitchell that even albums I don't exactly 'get' yet, I reserve judgment, figuring the fault's more likely with me. Mingus, to name names, but with this new player Mingus is presented with absolute studio presence and clarity and suddenly you see what she was getting at. I've been a big fan of Steve Hoffman's DCC gold remasters of Blue and Court and Spark, but now the HDCD's sound every bit as good. - Kent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:20:57 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: CD vs. Vinyl (Joni) I've been meaning to ask if anyone has noticed a considerable difference in the quality of sound on Joni's vinyl albums versus her CDs. I do have a turntable but no Joni on vinyl and I've always been curious about the sound difference. I find that vinyl records have more body to them while CDs offer clarity and I don't particularly mind a bit of the groove-scratch feedback. I think it's rather fun, actually. The reason I'm asking this is because I saw a freshly packaged copy of The Hissing of Summer Lawns on vinyl and so want to buy it! But is the sound any better on vinyl? It just occured to me how excited I'd be if I found Travelogue on vinyl! Oh my lord! - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:02:12 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #31 In a message dated 1/27/03 11:09:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > kimerer@taconic.net http://jonimitchell.com/Frames1.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:04:28 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: yvette in english Bruce asked: "The recent posts about David Crosby have made me wonder about the JM/DC collaboration "Yvette in English." Does anyone know who wrote which -- words/music (the music sounds kinda Crosby-like to me)? And how it came about? And are there any other JM/DC songs floating around out there?" If it has not already been posted (I am a week behind), I think you will enjoy this link. It answers your questions, and more ! I http://jonimitchell.com/Frames1.html Bob's Art ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:17:50 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: yvette in english In a message dated 2/2/2003 12:05:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bobsart48@aol.com writes: > If it has not already been posted (I am a week behind), I think you will > enjoy this link. It answers your questions, and more ! > Hey Bob, When you're posting a link from JM.com, you've got to be in "no-frames" mode, otherwise all you get is the opening page. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 13:22:21 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Gays' interest in Joni Andrew wrote (a week ago): > Of course there are gay men who hate Joni Mitchell, who can't stand her, who > can't even bear to hear a single note from one of her songs - I know a few! > Some gay men identify more strongly with the glitz and glamour of Barbra > Streisand or Liza Minnelli. Not me, but a LOT of gay men do! So, there > really is no rule or reason that we can apply to every gay man and every > gay woman where a love for Joni Mitchell's music is concerned, or any other > habits for that matter. Refer to the lines of "Borderline" to see what I > mean. "every measure, every gage..." > Basically, however, the majority of gay men find that female vocalists best > articulate their feelings - at least that's been my experience. Every gay > man I know has a vast collection of female artists and only a handful of > male artists, myself included. Maybe this is because women tend to sing > about men; maybe it's because gay men are more emotionally similar to women > than straight men; maybe it's because the female voice is more expressive. > There are no answers only theories. > A few related thoughts: 1. I think it would be really interesting to know the results of a demographic study of Joni's record buyers (a surrogate for who her fans are). Would it produce a gay/straight balance similar to the one on this list ? Or would it tell us that there is something 'extra' about the composition of this list, even within her fan base, such as what Lori (I believe) alluded to? 2. Let us hypothesize for a minute that there is a higher percentage of gays on this list than among her fan base. That might spawn any number of further hypotheses as to why that should be so, almost all of which might be tarnished by outside factors such as degree of acceptance/comfort level (which in itself could be subjected to "chicken or the egg" types of speculation). All of this is a reminder that we need to treat statistics very, very carefully when drawing conclusions about almost any topic where said statistics are presented as 'evidence'. 3. One thing I know for sure is that I personally have benefited in terms of my 'comfort level' by being part of this community (which is far more 'mixed' than my day-to-day connections, which - by my choice or others' - tend to be more homogeneous, er - heterosexual). That is not to say that I have no contact with the gay community in my life - I play tournament bridge, and have known dozens (and met hundreds) of gays in that context. But sharing thoughts and feelings on sensitive matters has generally not been part of those relationships. Here, I get the opportunity over time to become comfortable with and appreciate perspectives that previously discomfited me greatly - even those with which I continue to disagree. In this regard, I think the JMDL has an intrinsically positive aspect - one I do not otherwise find in my life. 4. As for my personal hypothesis on this topic, I think that it is possible that if one could conduct a definitive study (you know, like God has the answer), one might find that - within the bell curve - gays are on average more sensitive to external stimuli (hence, more artistically oriented and - in that way - more knowledgeable about what is going on around them, if not more intelligent) than straight people. I offer no explanation as to why that might be so - and in any event, I see that as a compliment (OK to offer, consistent with my theory that there is a difference between offering opinions or hypotheses that compliment rather than degrade). Also, I think that simply as a rite of passage, most gays have been forced to confront a truth about themselves that was - for whatever reasons, but at least in large part societally imposed - uncomfortable at first. Having passed that test of self effacement and self realization leaves gays one step ahead of us straight people, on balance, many of whom may go many years - even a lifetime - - without being forced to confront such a profoundly uncomfortable realization (such as - yes, we really are assholes to the tips of our toes - to quote JM). 5. Andrew, I know you wrote you did not want to speak on behalf of gay women, but I do not see your conclusions about gay men's listening biases (namely, a positive one toward female artists) explaining my observations (of this list) about Joni's equal or greater appeal to gay women. Rather, I think that Joni's often ruthless self-examination and search for the truth within her (not that she or we always succeed) is a primary marker among her fan base. That a higher percentage of gays would find that more magnetically attactive does not surprise me. Bob's Art ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:03:00 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Crosby and Joni Jimmy reported: > Mingus asked him if he could ask him a few questions, and Crosby said > "Nah, I don't think so". It wasn't as if Ming was going to ask him only > questions about Joni, but Crosby was pretty rude in my opinion. > > I was very intimidated, and as a certain jmdler told me last week "Crosby > is > not very approachable"........... Oh yeah, well David Crosby can be intimidated, too. Let's post a few from "that interview", for penance: I walked into a coffee house and was just completely smitten. She was standing there singing all those songs ... "Michael from Mountains," "Both Sides Now," and I was just floored. I couldn't believe that there was anybody that good. And I also fell ... I loved her, as it were. I was extremely fascinated with the quality of the music and the quality of the girl. She was such an unusual, passionate and powerful woman. In a hundred years when they look back and say, "Who was the best?" - it's going to be her. WB: I agree. Probably her and Dylan. DC: It's going to be her. She's a better poet than Dylan and without question a far better musician. I don't think there's anybody who can touch her. James Taylor comes close, but I think it's her, and I don't think the record companies ever realized that or have known what the story was. my favorite trick at the time was to invite everyone over, get a joint of dope that was stronger than they could possibly smoke and get her to play and they would walk out stupefied. They'd never heard anything like her and it was a lot of fun. It only stopped being fun when I started producing her first record. Joni is not a person that you stay in a relationship with. It always goes awry, no matter who you are. It's an inevitable thing. We were starting to have friction and at the same time I was starting to produce her record and I didn't really know how. Yes, it was very difficult for me. I'd sit there and struggle over one song, like "Guinevere" for a month, and she would have written 5 songs that week. WB: After you met Joni in Florida, you mentioned that you took her out sailing. That must've been very romantic, I would imagine, being out there on the ocean, playing guitars together?DC: Yes, it turned out that way. We had some wonderful times together early on, when she went sailing with me. (He pauses) ...You have to understand, Wally, I still love her. She's the best, and if you quote anything from me, say that I said she was the best and I've always said that. WB: And what is she best at, David?DC: She's the best singer/songwriter there is, man. There isn't anybody close, I don't think. DC: I think in the long run when they look back and say who really did it, it will be her. Maybe he was just having a "bad hair" day. ;-) Bob's Art ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:07:02 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Covers #37 A Prime collection Well, the ol' groundhog popped his head out of his hidey-hole and burst into "Chelsea Morning", so I guess it's time to announce the latest addition to the JMDL Joni covers family! 37 is a prime number, and that is most appropriate as this too is a prime collection of Joni songs performed by a plethora of performers. Contributors to this volume are: Monica Cardinale Joseph Palis And here's what's on it: 1. White Rose - Michael: We know it as Michael From Mountains, this early 70's UK folk group was on a first-name basis with the song. 2. Inga Luehning & Volume - Black Crow: Dutch jazz group takes on with much success one of my favorite Joni songs. 3. Foster & Allen - Both Sides Now: This Irish guitar/accordion duet cranked out 100 songs on 1 CD, all medley-ized for your protection. We hear their cheesy take on BSN and fade out as they segue to "Secret Love". 4. Wayne Roland Brown - Woodstock: Don't know much about Mr. Brown, but this is an AWESOME psychedelic Doors-like treatment. 5. Counting Crows - Big Yellow Taxi: Enough's been said about this one, this is the non-Vanessa version, the "hidden track" from their latest release "Hard Candy". 6. Harry Beckett - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat: Brit trumpeter Beckett worked with Mingus in the 60's, and included this fine instrumental on his Mingus tribute CD. 7. Bud Shank with The Bob Alcivar Singers: Bud's a household name in the world of Jazz; his fine sax work has accompanied many of the greats. The sax here is great, the vocals are definitely dated. Still, a nice treatment of the franchise. 8. Ten Sharp - He Played Real Good For Free: A fairly recent recording, Ten Sharp is a male duet, and this was a bonus track included on a CD-single. 9. Mark Wise - Woodstock: This is one of my faves; I included it on my first "Sweet 16" compilation. Mark's got a nice rustic upbeat folkish sound, and this track includes fine fiddle work. Mark's originally from LA and recalls seeing Joni at the Troubadour way back when. 10. Tom & Judy - I Don't Know Where I Stand 11. Tom & Judy - Chelsea Morning The "Tom" here is Tommy Banks, a Canadian who must be a big Joni fan because his big band did a great version of BYT which we've heard previously in the collection. Both of these earlier "folk" covers are outstanding in my book. 12. Fascinating Screen Sounds - Both Sides Now: Answers the musical question "what if they had used BSN as the theme song to 'Midnight Cowboy' instead of "Everybody's Talkin' At Me"? 13. Cliff Richard - (You're So Square) Baby, I Don't Care: Cliff was never as big in the states as he was in Britain, where he was huge. Here he does his best Elvis while hordes of young girls scream their undying love. This one goes out to my favorite Cliff Richard fan, you know who you are! ;~) 14. Tracey Campbell - Big Yellow Taxi 15. Tracey Campbell - Woodstock Don't know much about Tracey, I believe she's from NZ or Australia. Anyway, she has a lovely voice, and these are both wonderful tracks in a light jazz/pop mold. BYT especially is very unique & beautiful. 16. Judy Page - Both Sides Now: Pretty much just another pop singer version. Another "page" in the history of Joni covers... 17. Family Four - Runt, Runt Runt I Ett Ekorrhjul 18. Family Four - Tidig Sommarmorgan I love foreign language versions, and these Swedish takes on The Circle Game & Chelsea Morning are certainly no exception. 19. Kevyn Lettau - You Turn Me On I'm A Radio: Kevyn's astounding physical beauty is outdone only by her superb singing. She graced our collection earlier with her very unique take on "People's Parties". This is another selection on my 'Sweet 16" CD. 20. Stella Ignacio - Twisted: I'll leave it to my buddy Joseph to give us info about Stella; this version of Twisted is definitely inspired by Joni's cover on C&S, listen to that note-for-note muted trumpet intro. 21. Ralna English - Both Sides Now: a one-a, and a two-a, and-a you all remember Ralna from the Lawrence Welk show...this particular track was taken from the soundtrack to the film "Changes". OK, so there it is...wow, 21 tracks, 21 hits - all on one high falutin', Joni-salutin' CD. One of the best of the lot if I do say so myself! Bob NP: Family Four, "Runt Runt Runt I Ett Ekorrhjul" (Hey, who you callin' a runt?) :~) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 14:18:07 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Covers #37 - Win a freebie! As always, I'll be flinging some givaway covers frisbees around the globe...all you have to do is pick a song on a Joni record and tell me the song AND ALBUM title. The two closest win a free copy of this month's trib to SIQUOMB. Open to ALL members around the world! Plus, I'll give a free copy to the first JMDL'er who emails me & currently lives in: Montana, or Idaho, or South Dakota No guess required - just tell me your address! So guess away! I'll close out the contest on Friday at midnight, and announce the winners on Saturday. Remember, you can't win if you don't guess, and hell, it's free. Bob NP: Fascinating Screen Sounds, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 11:36:13 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Safe Foods, njc i am fortunate to live in an area where organic foods are only slightly more expensive than the others due to the demand & since there is a demand, many organic foods can be bought in our regular food chains or of course at the wonderful trader joe's...i only shop at our super duper organic store for things that cannot be found at the others as things there tend to be more expensive...they have really good meats & when i did a price comparison i found that they were only slightly more expensive than the others...it probably helps if the organic store is large one that has lots of orders &/or a chain (i.e whole foods)... we also have farmers markets almost everyday of the week here where you can buy fresh organic produce from local farmers & one of the cool things about these outside markets are the beautiful flowers you can buy for a fraction of the cost you'd pay elsewhere... the way i see it is you can pay now or pay later with the possible health risks involved with not paying attention to what sorts of terrible stuff goes into commercial food...(especially meats) btw, i've been involved with folks in the organic food realm (growers, markets, distributers)for decades...the organic tag is only allowed to those growers whose fields have not had pesticide use for several years (i don't recall the legal amount of time)... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:02:10 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: RE: SHUTTLE NJC Yeah. I knew the liftoff is really, really dangerous. I mean, to start the engines they basically set off a bomb. But, we've been bringing things BACK for a long, long time. I mean, we've had the heat resistant tiles figured out for a long, long time. I think someone forgot to put it together right last time or they shouldn't have been using it in the winter. (Like Challenger) It's hard to believe that the design is wrong. I'm thinking human error in assembly. Lama > From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] > You know what's amazing? That it doesn't happen more > often. Like ALL the time. This stuff probably > shouldn't work - but it does. Most of the time. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:07:16 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: Safe Foods, njc I don't know. Why DID the rabbit cross the road? To get to the other side? To see the shuttle land? To get to the carrots? What? Lama Jimmy in Florida asked, And if carrots are supposed to be so good for your eyes, why do I see so many dead rabbits on the highways? :~) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:18:46 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Where does Joni stand, njc I have to chime in with a quote from the re-released "All Things Must Pass" by George Harrison. I'm really enjoying it especially on CD because one of the LPs I bought oh-so-long-ago was pressed with an off-center hole! Some songs wobbled. Anyway, in "Beware Of Darkness", brother George's trademark humor shines through: "Beware of fallllll-ing swingers." As a survivor of bad management at the hands of Lennon's choice, George also warns, "Beware of.... ABKCO." Way recommended, this may be George's finest hour. Of course, McCartney had the brilliant "Ram" about that time. Gees, it's a shame that Ringo and that hack Lennon never came though as solos. Lama (yes, I'm baiting the John Lennon fans) >>If you haven't a clue what I'm on about, then you are too young to understand nostalgia. Who was it said "You're only as old as the woman you feel" not one of Joni's lines I think, it was the oldest swinger in town, Mike Harding, you lot in the US won't have a clue. Bye for now Forest Fred (Glos UK) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 20:27:09 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Gays' interest in Joni NJC Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: >> >> > Having passed that test of >self effacement and self realization leaves gays one step ahead of us >straight people, on balance, many of whom may go many years - even a lifetime >- without being forced to confront such a profoundly uncomfortable >realization (such as - yes, we really are assholes to the tips of our toes - >to quote JM). > >5. Rather, I >think that Joni's often ruthless self-examination and search for the truth >within her (not that she or we always succeed) is a primary marker among her >fan base. That a higher percentage of gays would find that more magnetically >attactive does not surprise me. > >Bob's Art > wow what an excellent post. It ishaeart warming to read such a post. Makes me think all is not lost after all. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:28:55 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Hook, Line & Sinker sjc Last night I found my way (w/o getting lost lol) to this bar/restaurant in Rumson, NJ (home of the Boss) to see Bobby Bandiera. He was one of the Jukes of South Side Johnny and the Asbury Jukes. When the band went on around 10 PM, they were taking requests and some guy at the bar shouted out, Joni Mitchell!!!! That's the Joni content. I never had that happen except at a Cagno gig, and I'm usually the requester. I thought he was kidding, but then when the opportunity presented itself again, he yelled it out again. I don't think Bobby knows any Joni, well perhaps he does, but this is a party band. They opened with Here Comes The Sun, kinda fitting after a long harsh winter here in Jersey. They did some awesome Doors cover like LA Woman, some Stones...you get the picture. All the baby boomers were out. Place was jam packed. My blouse stuck to some guy's Velcro on his jacket trying to squeeze my way through the crowd to the ladies room LMAO! It works every time he said to me. I wanted to bring Alison to Jukesville last night since she's in the Big Apple. She wasn't feeling so hot having a bit of a bout of bronchitis. She sends her love. Well, that's how I spent my Saturday night. rosie in nj Better ask questions before you shoot Deceit and betrayal's bitter fruit It's hard to swallow, come time to pay. That taste on your tongue don't easily slip away Let Kingdom come. I'm gonna find my way Through this lonesome day ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 20:29:48 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: SHUTTLE NJC in the first lost shuttle it had to do with something freezing which wasn't expected. In this one, they knew somehting was worng with the left wing when it took off. It seems it was this same wing that casued it to explode on it's return. There is very little in life that is a true accident. Most of the grief that befalls us is of our own making.Very sad as it is and not an excuse to judge people. no one is pefect. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 15:31:51 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers #37 A Prime collection Bob writes: << 21. Ralna English - Both Sides Now: a one-a, and a two-a, and-a you all remember Ralna from the Lawrence Welk show...this particular track was taken from the soundtrack to the film "Changes". >> And if you've been reading the Joni in Fiction section of the JMDL, you aleady knew this! (Thanks to JiF contributor Bob Muller!) http://www.jmdl.com/fiction/film.cfm Remember, when you read about Joni in FILMS, you can click on the image to buy the films listed, or click on the title and you'll immediately be taken to the Internet Movie Data Base (IMDB.com) where you can learn more about each movie than you'll ever need to know (thanks to Les and Lori). - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:47:37 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #37 In a message dated 2/1/03 3:01:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > : > Mark T asked about these lines: > He went to California > Hearing that everything's warmer there > So you write him a letter and say, "Her eyes are blue" > He sends you a poem and she's lost to you > Little Green, he's a non-conformer I have also wondered about them. Here's my take. The father has fled Dodge City for CA. She cannot afford the child by herself. She writes about her to the father, who sends a poem instead of cash (he's a non-comformer). She has to give up the baby. I am probably being a simpleton here. Hoping for a more interesting answer from someone else. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 14:24:53 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: CD vs. Vinyl (Joni) I've always been skeptical of digital recording; I didn't own a CD player until 1993. I was buying LP's exclusively up until that time, in fact NRH was the last new LP I bought; I wonder how many vinyl copies of that album sold. Long before such things as email lists, I started a draft of a letter to Joni (I never finished it), in which I thanked her for putting NRH out on vinyl (very few artists/labels still did at that time), and I was so happy to be able to get it. I immediately recorded it on cassette, and thus was able to listen to it extensively (on trips, with other people) I have essentially all of Joni's albums on vinyl; Some I've had several copies of. For example, I had a perfectly good copy of THOSL, but I found (somewhere, garage sale?) a mint-condition British copy of it), so I gave my other one to a friend. After CD's started replacing LP's (in the late '80's), many new CD owners got rid of their LP's, many mint-condition copies of which (JM and others) I picked up at terrific prices in used records stores. Music is the ultimate analog barrage of information; No matter how finely digitized a recording is, it can only be an approximation. Supposedly, the resolution used in modern digital recording is "sufficient" to fool our brains; I remain unconvinced (but of course, I listen to CD's all the time). I have converted many of JM's older albums from LP to digital form. This is the worst of both worlds; it's digital, but it's noisy (mostly I think, the rumble of my turntable). However, with a decent turnatable, LP's sound just fine, but they are extrememly inconvenient. But, I love LP's for their artwork (JM's being among the finest as visual art, obviously), and I LOVE my record collection. To answer your question: I would definitely snatch up that copy of THOSL, just to have the cover art, and crank it, baby! At 08:20 AM 2/2/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I've been meaning to ask if anyone has noticed a considerable difference >in the quality of sound on Joni's vinyl albums versus her CDs. I do have a >turntable but no Joni on vinyl and I've always been curious about the >sound difference. I find that vinyl records have more body to them while >CDs offer clarity and I don't particularly mind a bit of the >groove-scratch feedback. I think it's rather fun, actually. > >The reason I'm asking this is because I saw a freshly packaged copy of The >Hissing of Summer Lawns on vinyl and so want to buy it! But is the sound >any better on vinyl? > >It just occured to me how excited I'd be if I found Travelogue on vinyl! >Oh my lord! > >-Andrew >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #84 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)