From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #74 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, January 30 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 074 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- coyote ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: coyote [Little Bird ] Really Hot ["Suzanne MarcAurele" ] Re: Call the President (NJC) [sl.m@shaw.ca] RE: Joni Fans - NJC ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] RE: E-mail interception (NJC) ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] turning gay NJC [Yael Harlap ] Today's Library Links: January 30 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] RE: Murph's humor, njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] tomahtoes NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Why I don't like tuna.... NJC ["Wally Kairuz" Subject: coyote i hope this is joni content cuz its about one of her songs...? if not, my apologies to you joni onlys... my friend, the amazing guitar playin singin songwriter caroline aiken did a KILLER version of coyote last night at our gig- omygawd... socal alert! she's heading south tomorrow & friday so check out her calendar at carolineaiken.com if you are in the neighborhood (ventura, los angeles)... she also tours up the west coast & all over the east coast so do check her out & ask her to play coyote! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 21:16:45 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: coyote I love this song! My favourite verse from it is: He had those same eyes, just like yours Under your dark glasses Privately probing in public rooms And peeking through keyholes in numbered doors Where the players lick their wounds And take their temporary lovers And their pills and powders To get them through this passion play No regrets, Coyote I just get off up a ways... Wow! Anyone who sings this song live has my undying love. One of the most interesting things I learned from Karen O'Brien's bio was that DJRD (the song) was written as part 2 of Coyote but didn't fit the theme or pace of the Hejira album. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:21:47 -0500 From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: Really Hot If Mitchell is reading any of this she is probably gagging on the stuff - really hot - not Joni content - just plain what? Over time Mitchell has gone out of her way in words and obviously in her lowkeyed lifestyle to discourage anyone from being an idiot voyeur hoping for time with her in the way we all love the most no doubt! As to "settle for less than fascination" - She might have meant - recognize this? No longer starry eyed in love and nothing fascinating at all about this person , drink some more and then be a capitalist - most of Mitchell is a stream of consciousness of her own mind - damn I know where that is at - should have put my own meanderings over all the angles that usually ends up me not seeking the less than fascinating because it is all so contrived!!! I am none the less amazed how some of you always have time to write - can you send your clock over here?! Kisses S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:36:03 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Call the President (NJC) Colin, the difference is that the Saudi govt didn't knowingly finance al-Qaeda, and it's believed that Saddam Hussein did. In 1998, the Saudis were on the point of arresting Osama bin Laden. They were furious with him for his anti-American statements and attacks, and for his criticism of the Saudi ruling family. They persuaded the Afghanistan govt (the Taliban) to hand him over, and he was going to be tried for treason, the punishment for which is death. The Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar had agreed to this, on condition that Saudi Arabia set up a working party of Islamic scholars to agree on a justification for bin Laden's expulsion. In preparation, the Taliban replaced bin Laden's bodyguard with men loyal to the Taliban. Bin Laden was, to all intents and purposes, finished -- thanks to the Saudi government. Then Bill Clinton sent over 79 cruise missiles to Afghanistan and Sudan, to destroy bin Laden's training camps, in response to the bombing of two American embassies in East Africa. This made bin Laden a hero in the eyes of Islamic extremists, including the Taliban, and Mullah Omar refused to hand him over. There's a good Wall Street Journal article about this. I don't have a link for it, but you might be able to find it if you're interested. It was by Alan Cullison, Andrew Higgins and Hugh Pope, and it was written around September 2002. Sarah From: colin I asked this before but no one knew. Maybe someone does now: Irag maybe has links with Al Queda. It is going to be attacked int he war againts terrorism. Saudi araboa is where Al whatsit are from, where they got their money, support and what not. why are not they being attacked? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:47:34 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: RE: Joni Fans - NJC Lori wrote, in response to Craig: "Craig (with whom I had dinner and some great discussion in Austin in 1998 - god that was fun!) wrote: > There are gay and straight people on this list! And bisexual and perhaps transgendered too." To which I respond: NOOOOOO!! Say it isn't so, Ethel!!! ;-) ;-) Mary P., freezing cold in Madison, WI. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:10:06 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: RE: E-mail interception (NJC) To all: I'm way behind on JMDL mail for the last couple of weeks, and just skimmed the last two digests on my way out the door. But I had to respond, however briefly, to this particular thread. Kakki wrote: "Hi David, you wrote: > This is the most frightening thing I have heard in a long time, Kakki. Can > one be legally executed for having such emails, or merely fired? Is gay > content considered grounds for dismissal? It is kind of frightening, but I think the law across the U.S. for awhile now has upheld the employer's right to read and monitor employee email and also to fire an employee if they break the rules." I very rarely address legal topics on the list, not wanting to be seen as giving advice, but feel on firm footing on this one. While I don't agree with Kakki that the U.S. Department of Labor can be spurred into action on a moment's notice by the mere suspicion of a violation (I don't think they're that powerful, or more importantly, that efficient ;-) ), I thought Kakki's basic rendering of the applicable law and related facts was correct. Namely: 1) At least in the U.S., your employer will probably be found by law to have the perfect, relatively unfettered right to monitor e-mail sent or received on employer-owned equipment, and/or through an employer-provided account. 2) Your employer, if mere statistics are any guide, probably does so. 3) Many employers employ filters to screen out sexual content, racially offensive epithets, and other material that could result in liability under various statutes, and could be subpoenaed in a lawsuit. 4) Monitoring of your e-mail could result in discipline, not limited to, but up to and including, your dismissal. 5) Old e-mails never die; they just go underground. 6) If you have any suspicion that your employer may be monitoring your JMDL e-mail and don't want your boss to be privy to the list's latest discussions on various permutations of human sexuality (which, when properly marked as NJC, properly belong on the JMDL, IMHO), **subscribe from home,** if you can. I did: in part, for that very reason. This has been your friendly public service announcement! Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 01:50:56 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: turning gay NJC colin said, about being gay and genetics: >IF it was just down to 'environment', it is highly unlikely that you get >more than one in a group of siblings. The biggest hint that is genteic >is the fact that are groups of siblings where the incidence of >homosexuality is high. i am hopelessly behind on reading jmdl digests, so i don't know if anyone has responded with what i'm about to say, but... just because there is a high incidence of something in a family is not in any way an indication that something is 'genetic' and not 'environment' (not that there is ever one or the other - there are not only interactions but transactions such that the environment has an impact down to a cellular level...). for instance, three siblings growing up in the same family have the same parents, live in the same house, probably attend the same schools - - anything that the siblings have in common could easily be a product of their social relationships and interactions. similarly, just because depression 'runs in the family' doesn't mean it is genetic, per se. a depressed mother could interact with her family in such a way that the children are more likely to develop depression, and they in turn, as parents, can pass that 'environment' on to their children. i'm NOT saying that there aren't genetic components to these things. everything is an interaction of our genetic inheritance and our social and cultural worlds. the interesting question is how they influence each other to produce patterns of thought and behavior. BUT my overall point is that looking at siblings raised in a single family will not tell anyone anything about genetics. people do look at siblings-separated-at-birth, twins raised together and apart, and other sorts of kinship oddities to try and parcel out genetic and environmental contributions to behavior. but a) children raised separately from family members, children who are adopted and children who are twins have very different experiences than children who are singletons and raised with their families (not *worse* just different), and b) the equations behavioral geneticists use to determine the proportion of a trait "due to" genetics or environment are fatally flawed because they do not take into account *any* interaction between a person's genetic inheritance and their environment. and since we know that isn't how it happens, the equations give obviously flawed information that people nonetheless use... ok, the developmental psychologist gets off the soapbox, yael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 02:04:50 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 30 On January 30 the following item was published: 1995: "Joni Mitchell" - Variety (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1043 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 04:39:24 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Murph's humor, njc yes, bob. that is your cosmic mission. ethel-channeling too. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Murphycopy@aol.com Enviado el: Miircoles, 29 de Enero de 2003 11:18 p.m. Para: Catherine McKay; Laurent Olszer CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Murph's humor, njc Catherine writes: << I think if you just accept it as a given that everything Smurphy says is a joke, then your life will be much easier. >> But, I'm funny how? Funny like a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh? I'm here to feckin' amuse you? - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 04:48:22 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: tomahtoes NJC sorry, but i have to further dwell on tomatoes. i will never ever EVAH forget how delicious those tomatoes were that we ate at jonifest 2001. i know you've told me a million times where they were from (kentucky? new jersey? alaska?) but i can never remember. the memory of those tomatoes has become an obsession. as it is, i go through life simply hankering for one more slice of those tomatoes. i have even discussed them in therapy. the memory of those darling tomatoes and bob murphy are my raisons d'etre (sorry, i can't find l'accent grave on my keyboard). bob murphy: be my tomato!!!!! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 04:50:06 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Why I don't like tuna.... NJC dear, just exactly how OLD are you? wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Janet Hess Enviado el: Jueves, 30 de Enero de 2003 01:40 a.m. Para: Lori Fye; Bree Mcdonough; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Why I don't like tuna.... NJC . Back in when I was young in 1902, Janet ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #74 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)