From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #67 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, January 28 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 067 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- twins (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] RE: Namm/Email Hell (NJC) ["patrick leader" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #66 [DrSpine7@aol.com] Re: Being Gay, njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Gay's interest in Joni ["Jim Leonard" ] RE: Gays' interest in Joni [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Being Gay, njc [colin ] Re: twins (njc) [colin ] Re: Turning Gay, njc [colin ] Re: Namm/Email Hell (NJC) [colin ] Re: Gays' interest in Joni njc [colin ] RE: Gays' interest in Joni - njc [Scott Price ] Re: "Concrete concentration camp..."NJC [colin ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #63 [Catherine McKay ] please [vince ] Re: Carry On singer NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni sings Gershwin [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] David Crosby-CPR concert (VLJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: David Crosby-CPR concert (njc) ["kakki" ] Re: please now Joni sings "Summertime" [Catherine McKay ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #66 - njc ["Lori Fye" ] RE: Gays' interest in Joni - njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Joni sings Gershwin [Little Bird ] Fwd: David Crosby-CPR concert (VLJC) [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Fwd: David Crosby-CPR concert (VLJC) [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] re:Bob's epiphany "my old man"...and "for free" ["mia ortlieb" ] surroundSound, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] sorry [Little Bird ] CSN NJC [vince ] Re: David Crosby-CPR concert NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Fwd: David Crosby-CPR concert njc [Randy Remote ] RE: Being Gay, njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] New illness - financial phobia NJC [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Turning Gay, njc ["kasey simpson" ] Re: Norah's faves (1/9th jc) ["kakki" ] Re: New illness - financial phobia NJC [Randy Remote ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:33:14 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: twins (njc) Jenny wrote: Not exactly - large studies on identical twins have found that if one twin is homosexual - the other twin is also homosexual 38 to 50 percent of the time. My sister and I are identical twins. I had endometriosis and have ovarian cancer. She doesn't. She has asthma and allergies. I don't. Upon birth, her weakness was in her lungs. Mine was apparently in an underdeveloped gynecological system. And, from what I understand, our DNA actually changes a bit as we age. Can someone else verify that? lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:37:51 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Namm/Email Hell (NJC) i've said this before, but it's worth repeating. i strongly disagree with this idea of a third list, or a fourth list, or more... i don't want to go discuss politics, or sex changes, or hot hetero joni sex metaphors with anyone else. you lose the viewpoints of those on the edges of arguments, who don't post often but every once in a while get so excited they throw in some wonderful insight. splinter the list and you damage that. patrick np - the jungle line, just because that ethiopian metaphor made me want to hear this album ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:41:52 EST From: DrSpine7@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #66 Could someone please tell me how to get off of this list? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:48:42 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Being Gay, njc lol, no 'straight' answers from smurphbob... >>It was fairly recent, and I'll never forget it. It was at Jonifest 2000, when I first met Bob Muller.<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:52:12 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Gay's interest in Joni Just a quick note to thank all the respondents to my question for your very thoughtful replies thus far. I get the Digest, and have just finished reading those which were not copied to me personally, like Lori's and Andrew's. I pull a 12-hour day (13-1/2, if you figure in my commute) as a Patient Care Technician in a hospital, without computer access, so my ability to post is almost nonexistent. I do catch up with the JMDL Digest as often as I can, however, either on days off or early in the morning with coffee before showering for work. I look forward to more of this discussion, should it continue. Again, thanks - for your compliments regarding the merits of the question, and for finding it thought-provoking and worthy of reply. It really has been something I've wondered about for a long time, and, thanks to you folks for sharing your insights and theories, I'm beginning to understand. Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:01:34 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: RE: Gays' interest in Joni I've always thought women artists who become gay icons are loved for their broken hearts. They sing about unhappiness and tragedy, about the loss of love, and the loss of self to love. Gays may be particularly drawn to broken hearts because of the loneliness that a gay life can bring, as Colin and others on the list have been saying. And I think that people like Joni who've had tough times in life and in romance are more tolerant, more open to other people's feelings and more accepting of differences between people. As well as Joni Mitchell, I'm thinking of Annie Lennox as a gay icon, whose philosophy is similar to Joni's, although expressed very differently. For the Brits on the list, an unexpected gay icon in the UK was Bet, a barmaid in a pub in the soap opera Coronation Street. Overweight with dyed blonde big hair, too much make-up and too-tight clothes, she endured one tragic love affair after another, and was always let down at the end of them, with her black mascara tears coursing down her rouged cheeks, another night alone in the Rovers' Return. This tragic image seemed to appeal very much to Britain's gay community, and she was quickly adopted as a mascot. And another gay icon is Princess Diana, for similar reasons. Sarah From: "Lori Fye" It could have something to do with Joni's "confessional" writing about love desired and lost. . . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:21:39 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Being Gay, njc > Siblings share half their genes and most of their environment (at least in the home). It is impossible to tease the environment out of the equation in that situation. > perhaps so. However, people are DIFFERENT and react differently. Are oyu really suggesting that inm ym case, 3 gay brothers, or in my firiends cae, 5 gay siblings, that we all are the same which made us react the same? Also, if the situation is as you think it is, it applies equally to heterosexuals. as heterosexuals far out number homsosexuals, are to to assume that their environments were the same? what is the environment that creates a heterosexual? Having two heterosexual parents who stayed together and raised them? That can't be right. Not least because many homosexuals had the same. Or maybe it is having conforming to stereotype mothers and fathersi.e fem mothers and butch fathers. There are many many str8 people who come from single parent homes and also from no parent homes. There are many str8 people who had fathers who were distant and cold who withheld their love. Yet they turned out straight. Equally many who had dominering, cloying mothers who turned out str8. There are many str8 people who were sexually abused by the same or opposite sex. Ormaybe it was soemthing in the water? What exactly is meant by 'environment'? It seems to me a catch all word and have never had an explanation of what it means. Is there a way to raise children to make sure they are the sexuality that is wanted? I do think that 'environment', or at least my interpretation of it as experience, can dictate sexual tastes-ie. many people who were spanked as children either domestically or at school, develop a sexual fetish for it as adults. The fetish shared by adult babies has a fairly obvious root in experience. Any number of fetishes can probably all be rooted in experience. i just cannot see how how ones sexual preference for the same or the oppostie sex can be. it makes no sense to me. One wouldn't expect siblings to have the same views on life, or contsructs about anyhting, just ebcause they grew up in the same environment. Apart which, I think it is wrong to assume that just because siblings grew up within the same home that there environemtns were the same. perhaps their physical environment was the same. certainly their emotional envrironment would not have been the same because we are all different, we all interpret experience differently, we create different meanings. There is also an assumption in this that something went wrong in either the genes or the envrironment that casues homosexuality. i don't think so. It seems to me, if I understand correctly, that what you are saying is that our genes presdeestine us to be heterosexual, mainly, but some of carry genese that although they do the same, are slightly different in that the environment can makes those genes produce homsexuality. when you consider that 90% of the pop is str8, i don't think that washes either. IF gay people are produced by having faulty parents, does that mean that str8's have perfect parents? I don't know the answer, these are really just thoughts and questions. My gut tells me that sexual preference for the same or opposite sex is inborn. My guts also tells me it does not matter how we came to be what we are(only in the case of sex preference-i think how we come to be the people we are is very improtant-it helps in personal growth and undertsanding and comspassion etc) In the end, I know only that I have never had my knees wobble, my spine tingle, my heart sing, my mind swim, my penis get hard at the sight of a woman. And no amount of asking why or knowing why will change that.(tho of course one should never say never!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:22:51 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: twins (njc) anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > our DNA actually changes a bit as we age. >Can someone else verify that? > i can't verify it, but think you are right to think that. I seem to recall learning that too. > >lots of love >Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:24:53 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Turning Gay, njc Stephen Toogood wrote: >"colin" wrote:- > > >>There are studies that suggest it is inate. >>IF it was just down to 'environment', it is highly unlikely that you get >>more than one in a group of siblings. The biggest hint that is genteic >>is the fact that are groups of siblings where the incidence of >>homosexuality is high. >> >> > >Why? Most siblings are 'parented' by the same parent(s) in the same >'enviroment'! > yes they are parented by the same people and probably in the same 'environment'(tho enviroment needs to be defined) but they are most certainly NOT parented the same way. Only an ignorant person would treat DIFFERENT children the SAME. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:28:00 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Namm/Email Hell (NJC) I agree with you Patrick. i DO think it is very important that we remember the NJC tag and make a real effort to do so. but to now change the rules I fear would ruin things for many people. I undeertsand people on Joni Only getting frustrated with us for forgetting the NJC. i don't understand those that stay on the main list and still complain. patrick leader wrote: >i've said this before, but it's worth repeating. i strongly disagree with >this idea of a third list, or a fourth list, or more... i don't want to go >discuss politics, or sex changes, or hot hetero joni sex metaphors with >anyone else. you lose the viewpoints of those on the edges of arguments, >who don't post often but every once in a while get so excited they throw in >some wonderful insight. splinter the list and you damage that. > >patrick > >np - the jungle line, just because that ethiopian metaphor made me want to >hear this album ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:34:03 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Gays' interest in Joni njc sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > For the Brits on the list, an unexpected gay icon in the UK was Bet, a > barmaid in a pub in the soap opera Coronation Street. unexpected by who? She is a very typical gay icon. cerytainly gay people woudl ave expeteced her to become one! as did the gay writer and deveopler of this show. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:37:47 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: RE: Gays' interest in Joni - njc At 07:29 PM 1/27/2003 -0500, patrick leader wrote: >the large majority of straight men don't really care for the female voice. Or they won't publicly admit it. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:44:16 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: "Concrete concentration camp..."NJC Little Bird wrote: >This deserves a wider readership so apologies for not putting NJC in advance, but frankly, it needs to be read. > > > Andrew I understand the sentiment behind you posting this and I have no objection at all to reading it. But PLEASE do not send posts that are NJC without the NJC tag. The Joni Onlies do not need us to decide what they should or should not read. they made their decision and we must repsect that. It really concerns me that something awful will happen to this wonderful list if we continue to think we that we can decide what the Joni Onlies should or should not read. Forgetting the NJC because we are human is one thing, deliberately leaving it off is quite another. Yes, i feel that this mail might be of interest to the Joni Onlies, but they made their decison and we really ought to honour it. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:01:41 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #63 --- MARBOLI79@aol.com wrote: > JONI MITCHELL ? > C'EST VRAIMENT DE LA MERDE !!! a ton avis. Mais tu as tort. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:12:49 -0500 From: vince Subject: please Everyone, please respect the NJC tag. It is the covenant that we have made with one another. The Joni-only people have a right to be angry when it is abused. I got ripped yesterday for defending a poster who had Joni content (the paintings) in a post. However, out and out bashing of the Joni-only people or ignoring the community agreement just is not cool. So: here is some Joni content, a website I just found - http://www.robotwisdom.com/jorn/joni.html I never knew that Joni sang Gershwin's Summertime - Bob, Mul-man, my man, yo, dude, whadup, dawg, is that on a covers cd somewhere so i can get down with it? Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:14:15 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Carry On singer NJC In a message dated 1/27/2003 5:27:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, sp@olympus.net writes: > A quick web search (that I should have done before) says the singer is > Alana Davis. > Thanks a million Scott...hey Mona, is that the CD you're sending me? I forget. Bob NP: Jim Wilson, "River" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:19:33 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni sings Gershwin In a message dated 1/27/2003 9:13:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, revrvl@chartermi.net writes: > I never knew that Joni sang Gershwin's Summertime - Bob, Mul-man, my > man, yo, dude, whadup, dawg, is that on a covers cd somewhere so i can > get down with it? > It's commercially available dawg...on Herbie Hancock's cd "Gershwin's World". You can find it for pretty cheap these days, and it's well worth having. Besides Sunnertime, Joni turns in a nice sultry rendition of "The Man I Love" and even dedicates it to ME in the liner notes! (OK, so I made that part up...) The CD also features Stevie Wonder, Kathleen Battle, an of course Herbie's excellent playing. And she also sang Summertime in her "Day In The Garden" show in '98, and we have the soundboard recording of that. Sweet! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:45:24 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: David Crosby-CPR concert (VLJC) Sorry Joni-only people, this should have been NJC, but I thought since so many of you are fans of CSN&Y, you might be interested. My apologies if you're not. I was hoping my best friend and fellow JMDLer David Mingus was going to report on this first, but after the CPR concert, he's very disillusioned with David Crosby. Maybe he might add comments to my thoughts. Mingus knew the owner of the club where CPR was performing this past Saturday night, so our little group was not only given a front row table that butted against the stage, but we were allowed to show up at 4:00 when Crosby was arriving for the sound check. Both of us have been long time fans of Crosby, as most of you are. We were told by the owner of the club that there would be plenty of time to ask him questions and take photos. We did our research, and read and reread Wally B.'s interview with Crosby from '97. We just knew that Crosby respected and loved Joni's work. I must preface the rest of this story by saying that this "bar" was originally a Morrison's Cafeteria many years ago. After being vacant many years, there have been several bars that have come and gone. It is now called Club Neptunes, and the owner has something *different* every night. She has brought in some well known singers i.e. Janis Ian, and next month is Willy Nelson. Some nights the club is for hip hop dancing, and other nights might be some teenie bopper night. This is a very small place. It's more of a dance place, but they do set up tables in front of the stage for concerts. It says that the place holds 700 people, but I think that's really pushing it. After playing in some very nice and much larger venues, I don't think Crosby was very happy about the situation. Have any of you been in a bar in the daytime? Not a pretty sight. So for this, I will partially forgive Mr. Crosby for his *asshole* behavior. We watched and listened as CPR did their sound checks. Crosby definitely had an attitude with the band during practice. I was so surpassed when he treated the guitar player (Jeff Pevar) like crap. He was yelling at him that he wasn't singing loud enough over and over. He told him he might as well not sing at all. (Mingus has this verbal abuse recorded). Crosby soon returned to the bus out back, while the rest of the band continued with the sound check and just hung around. Crosby's fairly newly found son, James Raymond stopped by and chatted with Mingus, autographed his Woodstock poster and CD, and was just as sweet as he could be. (Must have got that from his Mother's side). Ming talked to him about Joni, and he's even visited the JM website before. Jeff Pevar even stopped by and was happy to chat and sign an autograph. We waited for a while for Crosby to return from the bus. Now, it wasn't as if Crosby was surrounded by dozens of fans. The club was closed to everyone except employees, plus Mingus, his nephew, and me. Mingus had a few questions he wanted to ask Crosby, plus he was going to give him one of his photos of Joni and the Travelogue CD. (I know, I know..........many artists wouldn't want to be approached with a gift recording from another artist, but we truly thought Crosby thought so highly of Joni). Ming introduced himself saying he was a big fan of his and he thanked him for *discovering* Joni and helping her with her career. He told Crosby that "Dawntreader" was getting rave reviews from her fans on T'log, and he presented him with his gifts (which Crosby received unceremoniously and quickly handed over to someone else). Mingus asked him if he could ask him a few questions, and Crosby said "Nah, I don't think so". It wasn't as if Ming was going to ask him only questions about Joni, but Crosby was pretty rude in my opinion. I was very intimidated, and as a certain jmdler told me last week "Crosby is not very approachable"...........but I thought the hell with it, I've been here all afternoon, so I'm going to at least introduce myself and thank him for what he's done for the music industry. Regretfully, I did. I said " Hi Mr. Crosby, I'm Jimmy Stewart and I want to thank you for all you've done for music". You'd have thought I was going to steal his wallet. He reluctantly shook my hand, and said a half assed thanks. Now for the good part. The concert started around 10:00. (the opening act was a girl named Twinkle Yochim (Paz you have to check her out......she has a FANTASTIC voice). Anyway, CPR came on and the SRO crowd went wild. Crosby quickly announced that this was not David Crosby, but CPR. This is where I was really shocked. I had not heard CPR before. They were awesome!!!! They played about 2 thirds of their music, and the rest was CSN songs. I was amazed that David still has such a great voice. When they sang any of the CSN songs, it was just like old times. Crosby, Pevar, and Raymond harmonized remarkably, and the crowd went wild. James Raymond has such a wonderful voice, and definitely inherited his dad's musical talents. Jeff Pevar really rocked on the guitar, and they all really seemed to enjoy themselves on stage. You could really tell how proud Crosby was of James. He smiled at him several times. This really helped all the negative feelings I had earlier in the day. The crowd was really appreciative, and I think Crosby was enjoying himself. He didn't talk too much, but at one point he was amusing when he was having to pull his pants up. He said "That's the problem when you're shaped like an avocado" I really enjoyed this concert, especially sitting 10 feet away. I got some great photos of Crosby & Pevar. Unfortunately, I didn't get many photos of his son James because his organ was in the way (no not that organ :~) )...........but all in all it was a fantastic concert. Who knows? Maybe Crosby was having a bad day earlier. I'd like to think so, but he was still a butthead! reporting from Ft. Myers, FL Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:18:49 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: David Crosby-CPR concert (njc) Wow Jimmy!! I was waiting for your report and about to start nagging you ;-) I'm making this post njc because I'm feeling a little nervous lately, ahem. If I may be so indiscreet, Jimmy asked me offlist about good questions to ask Croz at the show. I replied that even though I've had the opportunity to approach him in the past I haven't because something always intimidated me! I'm kind of shocked to hear of your and Mingus's experiences, though. But YES, Pevar and Raymond are *always* complete sweethearts (not to mention highly blessed in talent). He shouldn't have been looking down the nose at the venue. Paz and I just saw him at the Troub which is a dive (albiet an "historical" dive) that holds FAR less people. And he did make some less than nice remark about Joni at that show while talking to Graham that I won't repeat here (no use in propagating mean remarks in the bigger scheme of things). But like you said, their music is SO beautiful. This is where I give the cranky Croz a slight pass. He has always been a prickly one and we all know it. On the other side of the coin, he is an amazing talent and survivor and I can separate the talent from the personality with him. Still, I'd much rather chat with Peev and James anyday ;-) And congratulations on you and Jerry's and Floridian's Bucs win! I was very happy for you! Not that I'm into football, but hey! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:03:56 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: please now Joni sings "Summertime" --- vince wrote: > > I never knew that Joni sang Gershwin's Summertime - > Bob, Mul-man, my > man, yo, dude, whadup, dawg, is that on a covers cd > somewhere so i can > get down with it? Yo, Vinnie, wuzzup? Cate-Bob here. You can find Joni's version of "Summertime" on Herbie Hancock's CD "Gershwin's World." Dig it. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:25:02 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Joni sings Gershwin > And she also sang Summertime in her "Day In The Garden" show in '98, > and we have the soundboard recording of that. Sweet! I was just about to mention that recording ... it is indeed sweet. VERY. It's a great memory for me too, as I was THERE when Joni sang it!! (Thank you once more to that quiet man in the front of the audience, all wired for sound - you know who you are.) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:35:33 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #66 - njc > Could someone please tell me how to get off of this list? I'm sorry, but that request is denied. Welcome to the Hotel California. ; ) Lori P.S. - Send an email to majordomo@smoe.org, and include this one line in the body: unsubscribe joni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:38:13 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: Gays' interest in Joni - njc patrick wrote: > and i've always thought that one of her most flamboyant sexual > metaphors "he chains me with that serpent to that ethiopian wall" > would be kind of uncomfortable for a straight man, whereas it gets me > hot. Beyond this discussion list, I'm not too confident that there are very many str8 men who would "get" that line. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:51:36 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Joni sings Gershwin I happened upon this album quite accidentally. A friend of mine had it playing at a dinner party and I instantly recognized Joni's voice when "The Man I Love" came on. I ran out and bought the record a few days later and love just about every track. "Summertime" is brilliant! It goes wonderfully with lemonade on a sunny porch! - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:08:20 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Fwd: David Crosby-CPR concert (VLJC) Return-path: From: FMYFL@aol.com Full-name: FMY FL Message-ID: <156.1af4cdbe.2b6748c4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:45:24 EST Subject: David Crosby-CPR concert (VLJC) To: joni@smoe.org, MINGSDANCE@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 8.0 for Windows US sub 230 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sorry Joni-only people, this should have been NJC, but I thought since so many of you are fans of CSN&Y, you might be interested. My apologies if you're not. I was hoping my best friend and fellow JMDLer David Mingus was going to report on this first, but after the CPR concert, he's very disillusioned with David Crosby. Maybe he might add comments to my thoughts. Mingus knew the owner of the club where CPR was performing this past Saturday night, so our little group was not only given a front row table that butted against the stage, but we were allowed to show up at 4:00 when Crosby was arriving for the sound check. Both of us have been long time fans of Crosby, as most of you are. We were told by the owner of the club that there would be plenty of time to ask him questions and take photos. We did our research, and read and reread Wally B.'s interview with Crosby from '97. We just knew that Crosby respected and loved Joni's work. I must preface the rest of this story by saying that this "bar" was originally a Morrison's Cafeteria many years ago. After being vacant many years, there have been several bars that have come and gone. It is now called Club Neptunes, and the owner has something *different* every night. She has brought in some well known singers i.e. Janis Ian, and next month is Willy Nelson. Some nights the club is for hip hop dancing, and other nights might be some teenie bopper night. This is a very small place. It's more of a dance place, but they do set up tables in front of the stage for concerts. It says that the place holds 700 people, but I think that's really pushing it. After playing in some very nice and much larger venues, I don't think Crosby was very happy about the situation. Have any of you been in a bar in the daytime? Not a pretty sight. So for this, I will partially forgive Mr. Crosby for his *asshole* behavior. We watched and listened as CPR did their sound checks. Crosby definitely had an attitude with the band during practice. I was so surpassed when he treated the guitar player (Jeff Pevar) like crap. He was yelling at him that he wasn't singing loud enough over and over. He told him he might as well not sing at all. (Mingus has this verbal abuse recorded). Crosby soon returned to the bus out back, while the rest of the band continued with the sound check and just hung around. Crosby's fairly newly found son, James Raymond stopped by and chatted with Mingus, autographed his Woodstock poster and CD, and was just as sweet as he could be. (Must have got that from his Mother's side). Ming talked to him about Joni, and he's even visited the JM website before. Jeff Pevar even stopped by and was happy to chat and sign an autograph. We waited for a while for Crosby to return from the bus. Now, it wasn't as if Crosby was surrounded by dozens of fans. The club was closed to everyone except employees, plus Mingus, his nephew, and me. Mingus had a few questions he wanted to ask Crosby, plus he was going to give him one of his photos of Joni and the Travelogue CD. (I know, I know..........many artists wouldn't want to be approached with a gift recording from another artist, but we truly thought Crosby thought so highly of Joni). Ming introduced himself saying he was a big fan of his and he thanked him for *discovering* Joni and helping her with her career. He told Crosby that "Dawntreader" was getting rave reviews from her fans on T'log, and he presented him with his gifts (which Crosby received unceremoniously and quickly handed over to someone else). Mingus asked him if he could ask him a few questions, and Crosby said "Nah, I don't think so". It wasn't as if Ming was going to ask him only questions about Joni, but Crosby was pretty rude in my opinion. I was very intimidated, and as a certain jmdler told me last week "Crosby is not very approachable"...........but I thought the hell with it, I've been here all afternoon, so I'm going to at least introduce myself and thank him for what he's done for the music industry. Regretfully, I did. I said " Hi Mr. Crosby, I'm Jimmy Stewart and I want to thank you for all you've done for music". You'd have thought I was going to steal his wallet. He reluctantly shook my hand, and said a half assed thanks. Now for the good part. The concert started around 10:00. (the opening act was a girl named Twinkle Yochim (Paz you have to check her out......she has a FANTASTIC voice). Anyway, CPR came on and the SRO crowd went wild. Crosby quickly announced that this was not David Crosby, but CPR. This is where I was really shocked. I had not heard CPR before. They were awesome!!!! They played about 2 thirds of their music, and the rest was CSN songs. I was amazed that David still has such a great voice. When they sang any of the CSN songs, it was just like old times. Crosby, Pevar, and Raymond harmonized remarkably, and the crowd went wild. James Raymond has such a wonderful voice, and definitely inherited his dad's musical talents. Jeff Pevar really rocked on the guitar, and they all really seemed to enjoy themselves on stage. You could really tell how proud Crosby was of James. He smiled at him several times. This really helped all the negative feelings I had earlier in the day. The crowd was really appreciative, and I think Crosby was enjoying himself. He didn't talk too much, but at one point he was amusing when he was having to pull his pants up. He said "That's the problem when you're shaped like an avocado" I really enjoyed this concert, especially sitting 10 feet away. I got some great photos of Crosby & Pevar. Unfortunately, I didn't get many photos of his son James because his organ was in the way (no not that organ :~) )...........but all in all it was a fantastic concert. Who knows? Maybe Crosby was having a bad day earlier. I'd like to think so, but he was still a butthead! reporting from Ft. Myers, FL Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:11:11 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Fwd: David Crosby-CPR concert (VLJC) Return-path: From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Full-name: MINGSDANCE Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:06:37 EST Subject: Re: David Crosby-CPR concert (VLJC) To: FMYFL@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10578 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Bravo! You nailed it... The only two things to add is that during the concert his hair looked like a homeless woman that had been sleeping on a park bench, and that I also mentioned "Woodstock" as well. Basicly the song that catupulted CSN into overnight stardom. Great job Jimmy ! THEY DON'T NEED ME! oxox Ming ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:23:35 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re:Bob's epiphany "my old man"...and "for free" Sarah, I agree that the arrangements in the JM Anthology are pretty worthless. But I was wondering if the FTR arrangements you mentioned are from the "For The Roses" songbook, which I already have. The guitar tunings are pretty true to life, so I would imagine the piano arrangements are accurate as well. Does your music have the "crazy crow" publishing rights on the bottom? If not, I'll have to order these from you :). Mia _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:27:06 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: David Crosby-CPR concert (VLJC) Thanks for the great concert post, Jimmy! I'm sorry that Crosby was such a sourpuss, I'd say you caught him on a bad day but it sounds like it's not the first. Or maybe you were being jerky...we all know how mean & nasty YOU can be!! ;~) Anyway, bottom line is you saw a great show, so hopefully that made up for Crosby's rudeness. Maybe that's the way he gets the band psyched up! Bob NP: Jeff Beck, "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:41:17 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: David Crosby-CPR concert NJC MINGSDANCE@aol.com writes: > I also mentioned "Woodstock" as well. Basicly the song that >catupulted CSN into overnight stardom. Dunno about this...the Woodstock *festival* was the "catapult." Joni's song, covered by CSN, has always been just that for the group, a "cover song." If I had to name *one* song that was IMO responsible for propelling them to commercial success (stardom?) it would be "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes," which received a lot of radio play. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:42:48 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: surroundSound, njc Ditto. I tried cheap surround but went back to expensive 2 channel. I raised the speakers up to eye level and boy howdy! Next: bass traps for all 4 corners. Lama ps, Remember the njc, Ron. ron said, >>>>it just didnt work for me - stray bits of music coming from behind me where it shouldnt be. not to mention that given my limited budget i could get a reasonable stereo system for the price of what (to my ears anyway) was a pretty crappy surround sound system.>>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:51:12 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: sorry Apologies for the absense of NJC. Apparently this is quite a point of contention so it won't happen again. I knew better and didn't bother to use it. The topic is just very important and emotional for me and I wanted people to know. But I do apologize. Rules are rules. I'm not a fan of anarchy. I'm a Capricorn. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 00:10:45 -0500 From: vince Subject: CSN NJC Scott Price wrote: > If I had to name *one* song that was IMO responsible for propelling > them to commercial success (stardom?) it would be "Suite: Judy Blue > Eyes," which received a lot of radio play. > Scott In addition, that whole first album was so strong - people were eagerly awaiting what might arguably be the first super group (by which I mean stars from other groups coming together to form a new group) - that album still sounds great beginning to end, after all these years. There was great advance word of mouth on CS&N. And it delivered. (Which made their recorded appearance in the Woodstock movie so disappointing) And did anyone ever change a group so much - especially what was already a great group - by the addition of Y? CS&N was great but a different group than CSN&Y which of course was great. If they never had a hit with Woodstock, CSN&Y would still be one of the best groups ever; that was just another in a series of great songs by them, not the one that made them. IMHO Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:31:52 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: David Crosby-CPR concert NJC > MINGSDANCE@aol.com writes: > > I also mentioned "Woodstock" as well. Basicly the song that > >catupulted CSN into overnight stardom. > > Dunno about this...the Woodstock *festival* was the "catapult." Joni's song, > covered by CSN, has always been just that for the group, a "cover song." If > I had to name *one* song that was IMO responsible for propelling them to > commercial success (stardom?) it would be "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes," which > received a lot of radio play. > > Scott I'd have to agree that Woodstock was not CSN's road to fame. "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" had been a hit, as had "Marrakesh Express". Crosby's "Long Time Gone", "Guinnevere", in fact pretty much the whole first album was getting extensive FM airplay and high sales numbers. "Woodstock" may have been the first release by CSN with Y . You could probably say it cemented their status as 'the American Beatles'. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:45:33 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Fwd: David Crosby-CPR concert njc MINGSDANCE@aol.com wrote: We watched and listened as CPR did their sound checks. Crosby definitely had > an attitude with the band during practice. I was so surpassed when he > treated the guitar player (Jeff Pevar) like crap. He was yelling at him that > he wasn't singing loud enough over and over. He told him he might as well > not sing at all. (Mingus has this verbal abuse recorded). Crosby soon > returned to the bus out back, A few things come to mind. 1) While a soundcheck was a thrill for you, Crosby was at work. He has probably learned not to mince words, and when someone sounds to your ears like crap, it's best to tell them and deal with it for the sake of the music. Plus maybe Pevar is someone you need to be forceful with. I don't know. 2) Crosby has had very serious health problems, a liver transplant, has to take handfuls of medications etc. That can make a person cranky. 3) He is one of the most recognizable musicians in the world If he gave attention to everyone who wanted it, it would go on 24 hrs a day. Maybe as a defense mechanism he does his best to minimize and not encourage face time too much. or 4) he was having a bad day 5) he's an asshole I dunno. I saw him backstage at a festival I played at a few years ago. (he was the headliner). He was just kind of hanging out watching Vince Welnick's Missing Man Formation, and his son Django (who, due to his curly locks, I mistook for a girl) and a very burley bodyguard were there, too. I didn't feel like I wanted to bother him before a show- and I guess no one else did, either, because there were lots of people back stage, but no one approached him. Later he put on a wonderful show, as he has on every occasion I have seen him. Even in his drug-addled days, he was captivating. RR, looking forward to seeing CSN at Clear Lake, CA end of March-just got tickets. Had to mortgage the house. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:54:58 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni sings Gershwin To anyone wondering, the album Andrew is referring to is Herbie Hancock's "Gershwin's World", which contains two songs featuring Joni vocals. "Summertime" also has a harmonica solo by Stevie Wonder. 2 B a fly on the wall for that one.... RR Little Bird wrote: > I happened upon this album quite accidentally. A > friend of mine had it playing at a dinner party and I > instantly recognized Joni's voice when "The Man I > Love" came on. > > I ran out and bought the record a few days later and > love just about every track. "Summertime" is > brilliant! It goes wonderfully with lemonade on a > sunny porch! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:59:47 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Being Gay, njc chris! what a great way to put it! - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Chris Marshall Enviado el: Lunes, 27 de Enero de 2003 07:40 p.m. Para: Lori Fye CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Being Gay, njc 1a) When did first admit to yourself or realise that you were something other than straight? when i was 11. i fell madly in love with my 6th grade math teacher. he was in his late 20's at that time. a few months ago, i tracked him down -- he's in his mid-50's now -- and i can only imagine how glorious he must look -- a lebanese polar bear. he was extremely keen on seeing me again. believe it or not, there was a lot of chemistry between us and i think the only thing that held him back was my age in those times. nowadays, he's the principal at my old school. i might pay him a visit. incidentally, although i remained a virgin -- for philosophical and religious reasons -- until i was 22, i came out to my parents at 15. 1b) When you look back before that time, when *should* you have realised, based on how you felt, or who you looked at, etc? when i was 5. i kept sneaking in and out of the locker room at my club to see older men naked and taking showers. i was very sexually charged from a young age. the first erection i recall i had it when i was 4 and was watching one of those italian movies with some wonderful hunk as hercules or machiste. or maybe it was victor mature as samsom. i can't remember a day in my life that i didn't check out baskets as the guys passed by in the streets. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 00:11:03 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: New illness - financial phobia NJC Researchers at Cambridge University in England have identified a new phobia - "financial phobia" - which they believe afflicts 9 million people in the UK. And I am one of them!! Sufferers describe how they feel almost faint at the thought of opening a bank statement or a bill ( I am exactly like this), and also how the phobia started after some financial trauma. In my case, this was being a student and going to the cash machine (ATM) ONE day after my grant had arrived -- which was supposed to last me for three months -- and being told I already had an unauthorized overdraft, meaning I had already spent my next three months' worth of money before I had even got it. And then getting letters from Barclays Bank charging me 15 pounds per letter to tell me about the overdraft. . . I spent three years like this, and it has definitely affected me. Even now, if I know I have money in an account, if I have to use an ATM, I stand there shaking, waiting for that same old horrible message to appear, or a hand to reach out and grab me because I still owe Barclays money for their overdraft letters. So thank goodness it's now an illness with a name! See full story at http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,883805,00.html Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:14:26 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Re: Turning Gay, njc Sorry, I didn't write this. Kasey > >Kasey wrote: > There are studies that suggest it is inate. > IF it was just down to 'environment', it is highly unlikely that you get > more than one in a group of siblings. The biggest hint that is genetic > is the fact that are groups of siblings where the incidence of > homosexuality is high. > I'm totally missing the logic behind this statement: since siblings share genetic material AND similar upbringing (in most cases), how can you separate the 2 to reach this conclusion? To be sure you'd have to study families of adopted children, wouldn't you? LaurentGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:10:11 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Norah's faves (1/9th jc) Steve D. wrote: > Kakki has probably beaten me to it....LA Times ran a big article on Norah Jones yesterday. When > asked to come up with her top 5 favorite artists she named ten - including our Joan. I missed it (buried in "real life" lately) but just took a look and thought it was worth posting her list. She sure has excellent taste: RAY CHARLES He can sing anything -- from standards to country -- and it sounds like Ray Charles and it's beautiful. He's the perfect singer to me. ARETHA FRANKLIN Pure heart. She puts so much of herself into the music. She finds the meaning of a song and makes you feel it. WILLIE NELSON He is someone like Ray Charles who can sing anything and put his own stamp on it. JONI MITCHELL Everyone talks about her style of writing as so unique, but she is just as unique a singer -- her phrasing is amazing. I still love everything she does. BILLIE HOLIDAY She was my first favorite among jazz singers. She bares her soul so much that it can be painful, but there is also such beauty to what she does. DINAH WASHINGTON You can say it all in three words: "raw soul" and "brassy." SARAH VAUGHAN I just love the way she would take a song and interpret it in her own way. It often had nothing to do with the way the song was written. ETTA JAMES She has so much heart as a singer. I was really influenced by the way she approached standards. OTIS REDDING When I was in the 11th grade, I was just obsessed with my Otis Redding tape. His voice was amazing on things like "These Arms of Mine." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:06:45 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: New illness - financial phobia NJC sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > Researchers at Cambridge University in England have identified a new > phobia - "financial phobia" - which they believe afflicts 9 million > people in the UK. And I am one of them!! Sufferers describe how > they feel almost faint at the thought of opening a bank statement or > a bill ( I am exactly like this), and also how the phobia started > after some financial trauma. In my case, this was being a student > and going to the cash machine (ATM) ONE day after my grant had > arrived -- which was supposed to last me for three months -- and > being told I already had an unauthorized overdraft, meaning I had > already spent my next three months' worth of money before I had even > got it. And then getting letters from Barclays Bank charging me 15 > pounds per letter to tell me about the overdraft. . . I spent three > years like this, and it has definitely affected me. Even now, if I > know I have money in an account, if I have to use an ATM, I stand > there shaking, waiting for that same old horrible message to appear, > or a hand to reach out and grab me because I still owe Barclays money There is a Firesign Theatre bit like this...he goes to the ATM (in the not-too-distant future) and finds he is, like $12 in the red. The machine then sees that he is wearing a vintage "White Brains On Toast" T-shirt and snags it away, incidentally putting him in the black by a few bucks. Think it is on "Eat Or Be Eaten". RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:09:17 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: jan 25!!! NJC JODY!!!!!!!! I HOPE YOU HAD A GREAT BIRTHDAY! YES, I'M YELLING! have a shrimp pizza, and lets count the days till we kick the asses of those F&%^$(~! try hard pool "sharks" at the hidden den of iniqity (it's out by john & bette's, just past the bbq pit and two yards west of the DUCK! next jonifest. and yes, i am talking about kay and patrick! challenge! love you, jody. hope it was great, truly, sorry i'm late and say hi to scott! that guy! that GREAT guy! love and kisses, alison Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #67 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)