From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #60 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, January 25 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 060 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Christo project okayed for NYC [NJC] [dsk ] first thing njc ["Lucy Hone" ] Fw: If a man has a sex change...... ["Lucy Hone" ] turning gay njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: first thing njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: first thing njc [colin ] Re: first thing njc [colin ] Re: Fw: If a man has a sex change......NJC [colin ] RE: Lesbian Still NJC [Ron Greer ] Re: turning gay njc [colin ] Re: If a man has a sex change/long ... NJC [Susan Guzzi ] NJC Well digger's ass (was: speaking English) [Chuck Eisenhardt ] Re: NJC Well digger's ass (was: speaking English) ["chuty001" ] I'm back ... and what a long strange Travelogue it's been. [Don Rowe ] Re: If a man has a sex change/long ... NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Let's Tar Kangaroo Jack ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #58 ["Eryl B Davies" ] Re: Free will and determinism NJC ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Christo project okayed for NYC [NJC] [Randy Remote ] STANDARD oil [] re first thing NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #27 [Randy Remote ] Re: [Bobsart48@aol.com] re: most things going on on the list NJC ["mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Christo project okayed for NYC [NJC] patrick leader wrote: > > i'm excited about this too; have been about the possibility for a long time. > i grew up in northern california, where in the early '70s they had a project > called 'running fence', a miles-long series of white curtains running from > the inland hills of sonoma county all the way to the sea. as a budding > environmentalist, i was kind of against as all the debate and rancor went > on, but when i saw it, i was totally transformed. the curtains expressed a > deep respect for my beloved nor cal hills, and made you see them anew. I've seen pictures of that and it looked beautiful. Without that white line it was impossible in the photo to see all the nooks and crannies of the land. It must have been striking in person. I read about how Christo had to get permission from each person who owned land the fence crossed, so the project eventually involved thousands of people (as most of his projects do). One rancher, who'd been one of the most adamantly opposed to the project at first, was so smitten with the "fence" once it was installed that he slept next to it, as a combination of watching over something he'd come to love and also being protected by it. Like you, Patrick, he was totally transformed. I found that very touching. Art rarely seeps into someone's life so thoroughly. > this project has been through a lot of struggle to happen (though christo > and jeanne-claude have for years now said they consider the whole > pre-process to be part of the art work). They first proposed it in 1979 and it was denied for environmental reasons because the plan involved digging holes in the ground for the poles to go into. It's such a huge park that would mean thousands of holes. The latest plan doesn't involve any digging. And very definitely the political process, the approvals, the arguments, the required public hearings, the court cases, etc. are all a part of the artwork. It pulls people into it so they (often people who wouldn't go near a work of "Art") then have a stake in the finished project. Christo and Jeanne-Claude would probably say that is as important as the actual two-week "showings". This time the Sierra Club is trying to stop the project, saying it will harm the park's wildlife. It's appropriate that they do that (it is their raison d'jtre after all) and appropriate, too, that Christo and Jeanne-Claude work their way past that. I admire their persistence as much as the beauty of their installations. > our park commissioner under > giuliani, the ignorant and racist henry stern, wouldn't know art if it bit > him on the ass. he made a comment (i can't remember it exactly) about this > project that struck me as one of the most ignorant things i've heard. I missed that particular comment. I don't know who was mayor in 1979, Koch maybe. He was in office for what felt like forever and was never a friend of artists. And Giuliani wasn't either. His threat to take the Brooklyn Museum to court and withdraw its city funding because of a painting in one of the exhibits was infuriating. All of a sudden the openly adulterous mayor got religious, and became offended by the way an African portrayed the Virgin Mary. Jeez, Rudy, get real. But that was pre-9/11. He redeemed himself with his leadership on 9/11 and after. I'll never forget him ordering 6,000 body bags, and the press conference where he said "it may be too much for anyone to bear..." It felt like exactly that at the time. He held it together, while I fell apart. > our current mayor bloomberg, whose poll numbers are down but who i'm mostly > impressed with, certainly had something to do with moving this forward. > he's a huge fan of public art, having brokered deals that have gotten > museums lending large sculptures to public areas. he also walks the walk as > a private citizen, being a strong patron. Being a billionaire helps with that. And, yes, he probably did have a lot to do with getting the project going again. I'm sure he has lots of contacts in the art world, and he's shown that he's good at knowing what would be an appropriate and uplifting symbolic gesture. The billowing golden cloth throughout the park when it's at its grayest will be one of those. > i could wish it wasn't the first week in february. if we are in the middle > of a cold snap like the one we've been in, visiting the installation will be > 'no walk in the park'. Oh, yeah, even the hanging cloth would probably protest. And if it's as wet as this winter has been, in addition to the cold, the cloth would freeze and be heavy and possibly dangerous, the way slabs of ice falling off buildings in midtown during a brief thaw were so dangerous the streets were closed. Now that's a tough winter, when there's a possibility of death by icicle. It's so cold here, it's like, what?, Canada or something, although I have yet to get my keys stuck anywhere. So, let's hope for a milder winter in 2005. (Next year would be nice, too.) Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:07:36 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: first thing njc OOOOOOOH spooky...... someone is living my life!!!!! From: colin Subject: first thing njc what do you do first thing upon waking? me: 1. turn on pc 2. pee 3. let dogs out 4. make coffee 5. feed dogs 6 drink coffee and have a fag and read /answer email I had a warm feeling of recognition here and its nice to know for all our differences we are all the same really........ Lucy Here is a little thought for you.... Worry never robs tomorow of its sorrows but only saps today of its strengths.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:13:35 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Fw: If a man has a sex change...... This was one for that VP (virtual pub) moment WROTE...... If a man has a sex change to become a woman so that he/she can have a relationship with a lesbian woman what does that make him/her???? I KNOW THIS WOMAN.......... she was a very good male friend of mine for years and at the age of 48 (but not to my surprise) took the plunge to have her gender dysmorphia (correct name for those who have transgenderism) corrected. Petite (married three times and with three children) she took the plunge to end the years of cross dressing and secret longing. Brave Brave Brave person. She is very very happy (despite all she had to give up... family, many friends, her children's love and her parent's love) but has discovered that she is for the main part lesbian and has developed a relationship with another woman. She recently... to quieten her curiosity about "what male to female sex was like and to test drive the new bits" had a bit of a fling with a guy and pronounced it "not her cup of tea...... and to think darling I used to do that to my wives and girlfriends"..... She did not have gender re-assignment to become lesbian but discovered her true sexuality once the " evidence of natures cruel travesty" was removed. When she was a man she and I talked like best girly friends about all sorts of things, including his/her siutation (trapped in wrong body). WE had lost touch for a few years and I had missed "him" . A year ago she got in touch and we met and she walked by me twice before I recognised her as all she had said was "I have a surprise for you" ... Anyway to answer your question Ron.... It makes them wonderful warm and valuable people whose sexuality is not of the slightest matter in this world. Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 06:45:02 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: turning gay njc wow, this really boggles the mind... so maybe the man i was dating last year and who had been married for 20 years ( 4 children) is actually a lesbian and not a gay man who was a hetero before. i find petite's case easier to understand than alberto's, in fact. after all, can a heterosexual person *turn* gay? wallyK, amazed at all there is to learn about human feelings. - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Lucy Hone Enviado el: Sabado, 25 de Enero de 2003 06:14 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Fw: If a man has a sex change...... I KNOW THIS WOMAN.......... she was a very good male friend of mine for years and at the age of 48 (but not to my surprise) took the plunge to have her gender dysmorphia (correct name for those who have transgenderism) corrected. Petite (married three times and with three children) she took the plunge to end the years of cross dressing and secret longing. Brave Brave Brave person. She is very very happy (despite all she had to give up... family, many friends, her children's love and her parent's love) but has discovered that she is for the main part lesbian and has developed a relationship with another woman. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 06:46:27 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: first thing njc moan, "oh god! not again!" wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de jpalis@kssp.upd.edu.ph Enviado el: Sabado, 25 de Enero de 2003 04:46 a.m. Para: sl.m@shaw.ca CC: joni@smoe.org; joni-digest@smoe.org; colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk Asunto: Re: first thing njc > what do you do first thing upon waking? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:24:28 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: first thing njc jpalis@kssp.upd.edu.ph wrote: >9) turn player off/check light/stove/ >10) lock door / make sure that door is locked / check again if door is >locked and can't be opened with a shove or push > > I used to be terrible for checking. took me ages to get out. and then I'd come back-and again-and agian-and again.... now I raely do. I make sure I am thinking about what i actually doing as I am doing it and 'check it ifff' in my head. I am worse if I am going out a long time and worry about the dogs. I usually end up going back to make sure they are all safe, separately, in their pens. Then I go and worry about them anyway! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:26:08 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: first thing njc Lucy Hone wrote: > >I had a warm feeling of recognition here and its nice to know for all our >differences we are all the same really........ > yes we all all feel... and that it was make us the same ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:29:15 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Fw: If a man has a sex change......NJC Lucy Hone wrote: >This was one for that VP (virtual pub) moment > > > >WROTE...... > >If a man has a sex change to become a woman so that he/she can have a >relationship with a lesbian woman what does that make him/her???? > >I KNOW THIS WOMAN.......... she was a very good male friend of mine for >years and at the age of 48 (but not to my surprise) took the plunge to have >her gender dysmorphia (correct name for those who have transgenderism) >corrected. Petite (married three times and with three children) she took the >plunge to end the years of cross dressing and secret longing. Brave Brave >Brave person. > > > I think people who go thru this are indeed extremely courageous. It takes courage to be who you are for anyone, but to go thru this and it it entails is courage in the extreme. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:38:06 +0200 From: Ron Greer Subject: gods home movie/horse hi moni >>>moni wrote >>>Great you mention Horse! They made 2 good albums before they split, probably because they weren't successful. thanks for the info. i actually knew pretty much nothing about horse other than a couple of tracks sent to me on a sampler cd by a friend in the uk, but ill definitely follow up on them!! ron np kate & anna m - one of the songs off matapedia ( i dont know the song name) but for all the canucks on the liost - they just said they'll go home to canada!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:47:50 +0200 From: Ron Greer Subject: RE: Lesbian Still NJC hi >>>i wrote > trivia question time: > if gay men come out of the closet, where do lesbians come out of: well - its obvious really - the liquor cabinet i guess its an "oral" joke......... :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:41:12 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: turning gay njc Wally Kairuz wrote: >after all, can a heterosexual person >*turn* gay? >wallyK, amazed at all there is to learn about human feelings. > > > imo, no. (i don't lay it out as fact). Being gay is much more than who you have sex with. Men in isoaltion do have sex with eachtoher(prisons etc) but that does not make them gay. Hetero men rape the 'enemey'soldiers during war. it is do with power and humilition-does not make them gay. I think that even now, many gay men marry and try their hardest to be hetero. It usually does not work, causes much grief for all concerned. Gay women too. Being gay, depsite these so called liberal times, is still a difficult life. who would choose it?(not that I would change it either). We are still the one minority it is okay for all the others to dump on and it is sanctioned by religion and state. We provide a valuable service for all those sad people that need someone to hate or feel superior to. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 04:18:32 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: If a man has a sex change/long ... NJC Well this is a bit of a twist on the the question Ron posed, but it's along the same lines. So sit back children and .... Let me tell you all the story of "Lesbian Bob." I first met Lesbian Bob, oh probably over 20 years ago. I was a young dyke then and immature - hmmm now I'm an old dyke and immature, but I digress ... Bob was pointed out to me and his story told. I of course did not believe it or him at first. But this would be some kind of charade, continuing for the past 20 years plus, so I except him as he is now. Supposedly Bob, a typical blue collar city of Chicago sewer worker had once been married and had a family. His wife, so the story goes, left him for a woman. Now I don't know if this is what turned him around or if he had always had these tendencies. But Bob began his life as a lesbian, coming out ... so to speak. He is a blue jean, flannel kind of (gulp) dyke. He is a super feminist (choke). And he loves BUTCH women! And he is about 65 or 70 now, but I still run into him occassionally on the train or bus. He would sit in the bars, swilling lite beers and talking feminism. His dream was to be allowed to go to the Michigan Womens Fest. He often applied to the board to allow him entry. They were actually quite kind to him and promised him by letter entry in the year 2050 or something like that! I think he'll stick aroud just to get there! As we would sit in the predominately lesbian bar, Bob would watch the door for "prospects." When the stray or occassional man would enter, Bob would slam his fist and mumble, "Damn men, what do they have to come in here for!" He would never speak to them and acted very anti male. He carried around his satchel which ALWAYS had some vey PC material in it. And if a discussion was going on in the bar, he would inevitably pullout some piece of lesbian propaganda to support his view. Also, if in conversation you might utter, "oh my god" - Bob would always correct you by saying "you mean, oh my goddess." He was actually pretty smart and was often my competition for free shots, when we watched and played "Wheel of Fortune." Which may be the way I finally earn my pot of gold - LOL! On occassion it was rumored Bob "scored." I do know of an instance or two with a friend, when in their drunkedness Lesbian Bob and "Lips" were rumored to have made out in the bar. Poor "Lips" a scarlett letter she must bear for the rest of her life. He truly did not like femme women though, good cause I didn't want to have to lose out to him! But I being as I refer to myself a "soft" butch was still not his style - Thank "goddess!" But my younger queer sister is in some ways more butch and often had Bob's eye. My sister, Marianne, would often "play" him for the beers he would shower her with, not my style, but that's my sister! You all knew that I had a baby dyke sister too - right? Isn't my mother the proud one! But the idea of Lesbian Bob's authenticity came up often and I must say - I believe him. This was just too much. He truly lived and still lives this life as a lesbian. Although pushing 70 and in poor health now. So although he never pursued a change physically, afterall he is butch, he has lived his life as as a butch woman stuck in a man's body. Many women would not speak to him, many were grossed out by him. Many, like myself were always very curious. And you didn't just ask him questions, you had to bide your time and slowly gather this information. So here in Chicago, he is somewhat of an urban lesbian legend. He is so the typical looking "Joe" you would never believe his story or personna - until you saw him cruising the dykes in a club. Now I never said he did not get gross, as I suddenly remember him being a bit buzzed and expressing his oral talents, much like someone plays "air guitar" Ewwwwww! BUt I do believe there are people, as rare as it may be who are gender and prefernce mislabled in life. Even more so than the supposed 10% club - as gay people are referred to being a part of. I think people like "Lesbian Bob" and Lucy's friend and a few others mentioned in this thread, are probably in the 2% club or less. BUt they are human and have their good points and their bad. They still have value, although they are subject to much fodder and embellishment, mostly behind their backs and out of view, although there is always the occassional bold one who will confront them. Still, how hard a life is that to live and to except in yourself much less what other people think of you. So long live Lesbian BoB - he is truly a sister! And still the other half of me chokes on my own words - LOL! Peace, Susan NPIMH: Joe Cocker's version of "Woman to Woman." Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:02:31 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Most things going on on the list NJC >>And I'm still trying to imagine anyone pronouncing that Llan....... word, and thinking about Mike's offer to do so over the phone. I don't believe it can be done!!! Not anywhere. Surely anyone would choke and die on the "...-wllll..." part of the word if the first part hadn't already killed them. Offering to do such a dramatic act must be the way Welshmen distract the world from their, uh, stable relationships.<< Debra Shea Debra, you're obviously a city girl (NYC?) and probably didn't realise that stables are for horses, cowsheds are for, well, cows, and sheep are more free ranging animals and can be found all over the hills. Can you imagine the kick a horse could give you with its hind legs? And besides, their legs are too thick to fit inside your wellies. Sheep are the soft option, as it were. I'll try to remember a wonderful joke about a travelling salesman who sells animal food. Too near to lunchtime to write it down right now. Later. mike in bcn NP JoAnne Brackeen. Guessing Game. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:07:47 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: re: most things going on on the list NJC >>np - caetano veloso - cucurrucucz paloma (and if you've seen almodsvar's latest, 'talk to her', you won't forget the scene of him singing this, at a party, for a long time.)<< Hey Patrick, How come you were able to get two accents into your mail without them being automatically converted into different letters? What are you doing that myself and many other people are not doing which would allow us to use the Spanish words for tomorrow and handkerchief, for example? mike (gargon, merch, just testing) in bcn ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:01:42 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: If a man has a sex change/long ... NJC Susan Guzzi wrote: > You all knew that I had a baby dyke sister too - right? Isn't my mother the proud one! > > > Both my brothers are gay. No sisters. My friend Laurent in France(not the same one) comes from a family of 5 children. . He has a sister and 3 brothers. one of whom is his twin. They are all gay. Lesbian Bob was a fascinating story. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:11:23 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: first thing njc >>Joseph in Manila np: Bryn Terfel "Sings Handel"<< Ah yes, Bryn Terfel. Another great singer. Welsh, obviously. I used to deliver his paper when he lived in Pantglas. Any Canadians ever sing Handel? No, thought not. Any of you 'show music' people like his Rodgers and Hammerstein stuff? Jerry? m in b ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:38:19 -0500 From: Chuck Eisenhardt Subject: NJC Well digger's ass (was: speaking English) >Bree Mcdonough wrote: > >>I think I could be totally unbiased? I wrote this to somebody this >>AM..referring to how cold it is: IT's colder than a well-diggers arse. >>Anyone else have any expressions relating to the cold? > I acquired this expression from my Texan college roommate (who was SO 'Texas' that his high school, instead of varsity letter sweaters, gave varsity letter horse blankets). Having thus established authenticity, I can now cite the complete form of this expression: 'It's colder than a well digger's ass IN THE KLONDIKE.' Same roommate also provided the immortal "Ain't had so much fun since the hogs ate Grandpa'. ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:12:54 +0000 From: colin Subject: expressions NJC up in the north east where John comes from they say,as an expression of surprise/shock: 'well, i'll go to the foot of our stairs'. Goddess knows what that means! In Australia they say 'i'll be buggered'(or go to buggery) a lot which reminds of the folllowing: a zoo keeper goes up to another zookeeper and complains: your elephants keep buggering my turtles. the second one say'that iisn't possible. the first one say'come and see for yourself. so off they follow to where the elphants roam freely near a lake which also has trutles. As they were watching an elephant, whilst walking, squashes one of the turtles. 'see,' says the first zookeeper, 'that's another one buggered'. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:24:56 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: NJC Well digger's ass (was: speaking English) Subject: Re: NJC Well digger's ass (was: speaking English) > > > Same roommate also provided the immortal "Ain't had so much fun > > since the hogs ate Grandpa'. > > > > ChuckE > > A friend of mines favorite expression is " havent had this much fun since Granny got her tits caught in the mangle" ChuckS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:44:03 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: RE: speaking english NJC I've also heard "colder than a witch's tit in a metal bra!" Catherine's contribution, "Fuck, it's cold" pretty much sums it up for me! :>) Kerry Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 23:27:51 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: speaking english NJC I thought it was "colder than a witches titt". I still don't know what that means because I didn't know if the temperature a witches titt was ever measured. heather ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 07:49:53 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: I'm back ... and what a long strange Travelogue it's been. Hello jmdl. It's been a while, hasn't it? But with the release of Travelogue, I couldn't resist a peek back into the old e-community. Okay, so I did for a while, but it's now gotten the better of me. Is there an acronym for this one yet ... TVLG? TVL? T? TG? TLG? Just curious ... I remember how we love them so. So what's the thoughts .... ? In many ways, I think this might easily be the most enigmatic of Joni's albums, which is saying something. Of course, I'm thrilled to see the 80's catalog represented, and personally think that "You Dream Flat Tires" alone makes TVLG worth the price of admission. On the flip side, am I alone in my disappointment with the arrangements of the "Hejira" selections? My expectations were perhaps too high ... because to me they seem "merely pleasant." I'll leave it there for now ... and wait for the flood to wash over me. Good to be back. Look forward to hearing from you. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 11:05:59 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: I'm back ... and what a long strange Travelogue it's been. In a message dated 1/25/03 10:50:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: > Is there an acronym for this one yet ... TVLG? TVL? > T? TG? TLG? Just curious ... I remember how we love > them so. > > Welcome back Don aka Larry Klein. Your wit and knowledge have been missed. As for Travelogue, I'm not sure who came up with it, but we've been calling it Tlog. There's been mixed reviews from the JMDL on Tlog. As Gomer Pyle would say "I like Sgt. Carter, but I don't love him" (if that makes any sense) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 08:12:07 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: I'm back ... and what a long strange Travelogue it's been. - --- FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > There's been mixed reviews from the JMDL on Tlog. Jimmy! Good to hear from you. Actually, my own "full blown" review of TLOG would be equally mixed. It's at times brilliant, at others overblown, and at still others kind of "so what?". The mainstream critics have, as usual, completely missed the boat ... but what else is new? In any case, I'll "set a spell" as we used to say, and see what shakes out. Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 11:48:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: I'm back ... and what a long strange Travelogue it's been. In a message dated 1/25/2003 11:12:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: > It's at > times brilliant, at others overblown, and at still > others kind of "so what?". Hello, Mr. Rowe!!!! Of course, you've been SORELY missed and mentioned frequently, particularly when the discussions turn to Joni's 80's output. ;~) Your comments above pretty much sum up my thoughts on T'log (what most of us abbreviate to)...I played it this morning and most of it's fine, just not what I'm looking for. I also think she could have taken some more risks and made this project more challenging than it is. Enigmatic (your word) is a good one. So are you still writing & recording? Any new projects in the works? Bob NP: War, "Get Down" (maybe my all-time favorite live recording, right up there with "Shadows & Light" & "Waiting For Columbus" & some others whose titles escape me at the moment) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 12:00:44 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: I'm back ... and what a long strange Travelogue it's been. --- Don Rowe wrote: > Hello jmdl. It's been a while, hasn't it? Welcome BACK!!! It's about time! (Travelogue - some people call it T'Log, I just call it T.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 12:31:29 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: first thing njc --- mike pritchard wrote: > Any Canadians > ever sing Handel? No, > thought not. Jon Vickers. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 12:34:18 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: If a man has a sex change/long ... NJC Susan Guzzi wrote: > > > You all knew that I had a baby dyke sister too - > right? Isn't my mother the proud one! --- colin wrote: > > Both my brothers are gay. No sisters. > > My friend Laurent in France(not the same one) comes > from a family of 5 > children. . He has a sister and 3 brothers. one of > whom is his twin. > They are all gay. I have a friend who is gay as are his two brothers, but not his sister - however, she is on her third marriage, whatever that means (maybe making up for her brothers?) I wonder if there are any identical twins where one is gay and the other straight? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:00:22 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Most things going on on the list NJC Debra Shea wrote: >>And I'm still trying to imagine anyone pronouncing that Llan....... word, and thinking about Mike's offer to do so over the phone. I don't believe it can be done!!! Not anywhere. Surely anyone would choke and die on the "...-wllll..." part of the word if the first part hadn't already killed them. Offering to do such a dramatic act must be the way Welshmen distract the world from their, uh, stable relationships.<< Debra....when you wonder if it's true that a certain welshman transplanted to Barcelona can pronounce Llan.....(hola miguel) let me put it to you this way... as Bernadette Peters would say... it's twue it's twue ;-) Mags npimh: sheep safely grazing (oh silli silli moogsie) lol! You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 13:20:29 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Most things going on on the list NJC --- Debra Shea wrote: > I'm still trying to imagine anyone pronouncing > that Llan....... word, > and thinking about Mike's offer to do so over the > phone. I don't believe it > can be done!!! > Mags N Brei wrote: > > Debra....when you wonder if it's true that a certain > welshman transplanted to Barcelona can pronounce > Llan.....(hola miguel) > > let me put it to you this way... > > as Bernadette Peters would say... > > it's twue it's twue ;-) He could totally mispronounce it and none of us would be any the wiser. And speaking of sheep, it will soon be Chinese New Year. Our February 1, 2003 is the first day of the Chinese year 4701 which just happens to be ... the year of the ... Sheep (or ram in some calendars.) Gung Hay Fat Choy! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 12:47:37 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Was speaking english NJC Now Lesbian Still NJC >Ron wrote: >trivia question time: >if gay men come out of the closet, where do lesbians come out of: I'm pretty sure it's the same closet.....or maybe lesbians come out of a closet and gay men come out of an armoire?? Kerry NP - Ani Difranco - Grey ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 13:47:32 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Night Ride Home I can picture dancing to it, but in a very Brectian way, maybe like a Suzuki-Noh Theatre thing where the dancers convey more of a message that social-political than exuberant or a scintillating folkd revival.. Maybe an African tribal dance but they would all be wearing business suits?.. or have a greedy house made dancing around chasing money? Blair :) > >In a message dated 1/22/2003 3:27:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, Cactustree78 >writes: > > > Anyway just wanted to share my new found love for winfall > > hope you all are havin a wonderful week... > >I appreciate your eternal optimism, Kevin...if we ever can clone people, >let's order up a couple more Kevin's! :~) > >As for The Windfall, I love it...yes, it's pretty much directed at the >"axis of evil" maid who took a swift kick in the shins besides...my >favorite lyric, "you'd eat your young alive, for a Jaguar in the >drive"...man, it just doesn't get any more venomous than that. >Don't know about dancing to it, but hey, I suppose one can dance to >anything. > >Bob _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 13:50:19 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Let's Tar Kangaroo Jack I think the fact that in the preview of "Kangaroo Jack" they showed the Kangaroo rapping to Rapper's Delight in a Faux-parody-this-is-the-selling-point-of-the-movie just makes me cringe beyond belief. I am afraid that to experience "HOllywood" you must leave and go underground. Blair > >Maybe it means there is not a SINGLE creative thought left in Hollywood? > > >At 02:09 PM 1/22/03 +0100, you wrote: > >>>a country where the top grossing movie is Kangaroo Jack is under the > >judgment of the gods. > >Or should be.<< > > > >Maybe it's evidence that there IS no god? > >mike > > > > > >Steve _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:55:47 -0000 From: "Eryl B Davies" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #58 Re: first thing njc Colin wrote: >the idea was to list what YOU do! >and a fag is a ciggy.(but ithink you knew that!) ;-) Reminds me of when a friend visited The USA. One evening, in the hotel, he ran out of cigarettes, so he went down to reception to make enquiries. Not knowing of the American meaning of fag he asked the receptionist where he could get some. The receptionist replied "How many do you want?" My friend replied innocently "Ten or Twenty"!!!!! The first thing I do is pee the second is to turn on the stereo. I can't bear a quiet house, lucky I have no near neighbours at the moment. Eryl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:04:38 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Free will and determinism NJC I read somewhere or in class (mayb it was Kant) who said that if a God or "the" god does see all (including the future, past, etc) that Free Will can't be ruled out, that we as people have free will to do as we please, but God overall still knows the future and what will happen eventually, He just can't interrupt the path nor can he change it. Again, this may be a bit skewed and I am not a Philosopher, but it always intrigued me. I thought it was funny if a bunch of people stopped believing in Free Will and all of the sudden just sat there waiting for signs or a motion from the Big "G" to embark on their next venture. Blair NP:"walk on By" Laura Nyro > >Coliin, if god or anyone else knows about (can see) the future, it means >the future is determined. If the future is determined, then we have no >free will, only the illusion of it. > >Following your example, if god has a vcr tape of my life, and he >fast-forwards and sees me buying house number 1, it follows that the time >I spent looking at house number 2 was time wasted, because all along it was >"written" -- already determined -- that house number 1 was the house I >would buy. Otherwise god could not have had a tape of me doing that. > >Sarah > > >From: colin >Just because 'God knows everything', would not do away with free will. >He can see ahead and therefore see what happens. Being able to see the >future does not indicate that He controls it. >(the above assumes that God exists and that He does know everything) > >simply put, lets say God has a vcr tape of your life. he FF and sees >you buying a house. Just by FF the tape, does mean he made buy the house. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:07:38 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: 7th Grade English TeachersNJC I don't know about your 7th Grade teachers, but mine barked at kids in the hallway! Yes, barked, well more like a "woof woof". She was crazy and scared many of the lil' children. BLair > > that is what my 7th grade English teacher told me. She said that the > > American spoken around Cleveland was the purest dialect of the > > language. 7th grade English teachers do not lie. > >Fauch no, they don't! ; ) > >Now here's a question: do you say "wash" or "worsh"? (Washington or >Worshington?) > >Lori _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 13:02:30 -0700 From: fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: first thing njc The first things I do 1. pee 2. go into kitchen to feed dog 3. make coffee 4. shower 5. shave 6. take medication 7. put clothes on 8. find keys, wallet, and other implements of destruction 9. fill thermous 10. walk the dog 11. put dog in cage give him his prison treat and say goodbye 12. gather up aforementioned implements of destruction and thermous 13.leave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 13:11:39 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Most things going on on the list NJC LOL LOL Exactly, Debra, you've got the Welsh bang to rights. Sarah From: dsk Offering to do such a dramatic act must be the way Welshmen distract the world from their, uh, stable relationships. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 11:29:29 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Rice for Peace NJC to my jmdl peace advocate activists, i am finding great reward in doing things within my power to make my voice heard as a patriot for peace...this idea was sent to me by a friend & am doing it! thought i'd share with others who might also find it worth doing...kate (ps pass it on!) There is a grassroots campaign underway to protest war in Iraq in a simple, but potentially powerful way. Place 1/2 cup uncooked rice in a small plastic bag (a snack-size bag or sandwich bag work fine). Squeeze out excess air and seal the bag. Wrap it in a piece of paper on which you have written, "If your enemies are hungry, feed them. Romans 12:20. Please send this rice to the people of Iraq; do not attack them." Place the paper and bag of rice in an envelope (either a letter-sized or padded mailing envelope--both are the same cost to mail) and address them to: President George Bush White House, 100 Pennsylvania Ave. NW Washington, DC 20500 Attach $1.06 in postage. (Three 37-cent stamps equal $1.11.) Drop this in the mail TODAY. It is important to act NOW so that President Bush gets the letters ASAP, preferably before the report from the inspectors comes out on the 27th. In order for this protest to be effective, there must be hundreds of thousands of such rice deliveries to the White House. We can do this if you each forward this message to your friends and family. There is a positive history of this protest! "In the mid-1950s, the pacifist Fellowship of Reconciliation, learning of famine in the Chinese mainland, launched a 'Feed Thine Enemy' campaign. Members and friends mailed thousands of little bags of rice to the White House with a tag quoting the Bible, "If thine enemy hunger, feed him." As far as anyone knew for more than ten years, the campaign was an abject failure. The President did not acknowledge receipt of the bags publicly; certainly, no rice was ever sent to China. "What nonviolent activists only learned a decade later was that the campaign played a significant, perhaps even determining role in preventing nuclear war. Twice while the campaign was on, President Eisenhower met with the Joint Chiefs of Staff to consider U.S. options in the conflict with China over two islands, Quemoy and Matsu. The generals twice recommended the use of nuclear weapons. President Eisenhower each time turned to his aide and asked how many little bags of rice had come in. When told they numbered in the tens of thousands, Eisenhower told the generals that as long as so many Americans were expressing active interest in having the U.S. feed the Chinese, he certainly wasn't going to consider using nuclear weapons against them." From: People Power: Applying Nonviolence Theory by David H. Albert, p.43, New Society, 19. Thank you for being people of hope, people of faith. Pastor Susan, Mennonite Church, Boulder CO PLEASE SHARE THIS EMAIL WITH FRIENDS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 11:27:29 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Christo project okayed for NYC [NJC] dsk wrote: > A work of art featuring 23 miles of billowing > saffron-colored fabric by the artist Christo and his wife > Jeanne-Claude will be displayed along Central Park's > pedestrian paths for two weeks in February 2005 > I'm so excited about this! I can't wait to walk through the park while > this project is up. > Has anyone here experienced one of Christo's projects? Yes, I saw his Running Fence in Sonoma County, Calif. circa 1976 or so, a big white billowing fabric fence that ran for miles over hill and dale before plummeting into the Pacific Ocean. I was skeptical about it at first, but seeing it in person made a powerful impression. We drove along for miles, and there it was, amongst the cows and meadows. Please give us a report! RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:35:06 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: re: most things going on on the list NJC >> as Bernadette Peters would say... it's twue it's twue ;-) Wasn't that Madeline Kahn in 'Blazing Saddles'? minb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:35:21 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Soul Picnic NJC I have just finished the same book and am now officially in love with Laura Nyro. I found her to be compelling and charming personality on and off the stage. I think the thing most astounding about her was how true she was to her own desires and talent and that she never strayed from that. I love "Save the COuntry" and yes I too, am scared as well. Blair > >Our local news tonight reported on Connecticut troops being sent to Iraq. >As the tension rises, I can only say that I am truly worried and angry. >I usually do not do this but I just finished Laura Nyro's biography 'Soul >Picnic' and I felt compelled to quote one of Laura's poignant songs: > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:36:06 -0500 From: Subject: STANDARD oil As much as I love BLUE MOTEL ROOM, I don't see it ever becoming a standard -- the words are too Joni-specific. Because La Joni IS such a specific writer (which is what makes her so valuable and so unique), many of her songs belong to her and her alone. Doncha think? MICHAEL in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:39:22 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: re first thing NJC >>Any Canadians ever sing Handel? No, thought not. Jon Vickers.<< Never heard of her. minb NPIMH Bryn Terfel. 'Salmon chanted 'Evening'' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 11:40:29 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #27 StDoherty@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/24/2003 3:01:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com > writes: > > > From: Randy Remote > > Subject: Shakey, Neil & Joni > > > > I've been reading (devouring) "Shakey" , the recent biography > > of Neil Young by Jimmy McDonough. Lots of Joni references. > > Has anyone else read it? Has it been discussed on the list yet? > > > > Yeah I just finished reading this -- like you devouring it. What is it about > this book that's so compelling? There are many Joni references as you say. > They appear to be pretty good friends and in many ways very similar. But the > book is like this discussion list -- that is -- the more you get to know > about Joni the more you wish you didn't know. By the end of Shakey I'm not > liking Young very much at all. But his After The Goldrush remains (to me) a > quintessential early 70's album. Yes, Young comes off as a moody, impulsive person without much regard for others. But really committed to the creative process more than anything. Regarding After the Goldrush, the book says that "Only Love Can Break Your Heart" was alledgedly written about Joni & Nash's breakup. No new light on "Stupid Girl", but I suspect it is about Carrie Snodgrass, not Joni, as most of Zuma was the aftermath of Youngs relationship with her. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:45:15 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Catherine wagged: > I figured you were an artist. As in, Bob's Art. Sigh. Did you also notice the juxtaposition of "anymore" and "any more" in my post ? Sort of like in "Midway", Joni's overtime and over time. Unfortunately, it was totally unintentional, leaving my net creative artistic output at zero, lifetime, IMO. Bob's Art ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 21:03:13 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: re: most things going on on the list NJC OK here's the joke. A ventriloquist was finding it difficult to get work in his chosen profession so he goes to the local jobcentre to see what other kind of work is available. Nothing much on offer except a travelling salesman job selling food for farm animals. He decides to take it and starts to work. For the first week or so he sells nothing then hits on the idea of using his voice-throwing skills to help the sales pitch. The next day he goes to a farm and asks the farmer if he would like to buy his products. Farmer says he's happy with what he has already. The salesman asks if the animals would prefer a change and the farmer says that he couldn't possibly guess their opinion. Salesman suggests a test. He asks the farmer to take him to the animals and if the animals prefer his products then he'll reduce the price by 30%. If they don't; the farmer will have the food free. Farmer sees himself in a no-lose situation and agrees. They go to the henhouse and the salesman asks the hens if they like their food. Throwing his voice to sound like a chicken, the answer suggests that the hens find the food boring. The farmer is amazed that the hens can talk and the salesman explains that he has a gift of making the animals' voices audible to humans. Salesman then asks hens to try his product and then asks them what they think. 'They' reply that they much prefer it. Farmer is astonished and agrees to buy a few sacks. They move on to the cowshed where the same thing happens all over again. Farmer agrees to buy the food because 'the cows' say that they prefer it. They go to the pigsty and the same thing happens again. Salesman throws his voice, farmer is impressed and agrees to take more bags of the food. The salesman is really happy with his sales and is keen to clean up and asks where the sheep are. Farmer replies that he keeps no sheep. Salesman finds this difficult to believe and asks again. Farmer gets red in the face and denies having sheep. Salesman looks at the barbed wire around the farmyard and sees strands of wool. Finally he walks off towards the back of the barn and sees some sheep grazing away quite happily. Farmer gets really nervous and tries to pull the salesman away from the little paddock but the salesman is not to be put off. He marches over there and just as he's about to start his routine again the farmer grabs him by the sleeve and says, "If any of them say I've been fucking them, they're lying bastards!". mike ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #60 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)