From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #52 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, January 23 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 052 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: speaking english NJC [colin ] Re: Free will and determinism NJC ["RSM" ] Re: Free will and determinism NJC [colin ] RE: I Have A Dream ["courtandspark@earthlink.net" ] RE: I Have A Dream NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #51 so njc it ain't even funny [Catherine McKay ] Re: Subject: Frank Zappa's / Joni's house [Dan Olson ] RE: speaking english NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: American idol? njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: in HISTORY - Hejira [Dan Olson ] Re: in HISTORY - Hejira ["Lori Fye" ] Re: in HISTORY - Hejira [Dan Olson ] Claire Martin Sings Joni [Seulbzzaj@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #50 - Asian covers [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #51 -- big sellers way back when [BRYAN8847@aol.co] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #51 -- Ohio accents, Very NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: the death of America now John Kennedy Toole NJC [] Re: speaking english NJC [sl.m@shaw.ca] RE: speaking english NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Worry - NJC ["Heather" ] RE: speaking english NJC [sl.m@shaw.ca] Shadows & Light DVD ["Benjamin Pearce" ] NRH/Favorite Joni "look" [Cactustree78@aol.com] Re: Shadows & Light DVD [Randy Remote ] FW: A week like no other. NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] in HISTORY ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:49:58 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: speaking english NJC Lori Fye wrote: >>that is what my 7th grade English teacher told me. She said that the >>American spoken around Cleveland was the purest dialect of the >>language. 7th grade English teachers do not lie. >> >> > >Fauch no, they don't! ; ) > LOL! You are getting so naughty..... > >Now here's a question: do you say "wash" or "worsh"? (Washington or >Worshington?) > >Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:50:34 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: Free will and determinism NJC Sarah wrote: | Coliin, if god or anyone else knows about (can see) the future, it | means the future is determined. If the future is determined, then we | have no free will, only the illusion of it. | | Following your example, if god has a vcr tape of my life, and he | fast-forwards and sees me buying house number 1, it follows that the | time I spent looking at house number 2 was time wasted, because all | along it was "written" -- already determined -- that house number 1 | was the house I would buy. Otherwise god could not have had a tape | of me doing that. When it gets boiled down to God and his vcr, who can refute that logic? ROTFLMAO! What if God has a thousand vcr tapes of your life, each one a possibility. (I would hope that God uses cdr or something a bit more modern, of course -- saves all that time rewinding!!) But God knows precisely which choices that you will pick, using your free will. How can that be? Cuz he/she/it is very fecking smart!! Does that mean that you don't have a free will, or just that you are predictable? Or perhaps God is like Merlin, living life backwards in time. God is all knowing about your future because he has seen it all. It doesn't affect your free will concept at all -- each choice was yours. God didn't even need a stinking VCR. He/she/it has been there, seen that! Or perhaps God is not time bound at all. Where/when is heaven anyway? Or perhaps all this God talk is pure hogwash, designed to distract us from the real shitty things happening in our lives! Hmmmm. Perhaps I am too amused ;P Ron L.A. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 00:01:58 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Free will and determinism NJC >What if God has a thousand vcr tapes of your life, each one a possibility. >(I would hope that God uses cdr or something a bit more modern, of course -- >saves all that time rewinding!!) But God knows precisely which choices that >you will pick, using your free will. How can that be? Cuz he/she/it is >very fecking smart!! Does that mean that you don't have a free will, or >just that you are predictable? > >Or perhaps God is like Merlin, living life backwards in time. God is all >knowing about your future because he has seen it all. It doesn't affect >your free will concept at all -- each choice was yours. God didn't even >need a stinking VCR. He/she/it has been there, seen that! > >Or perhaps God is not time bound at all. > well I am not sure if you are taking the piss or not, but it doesn't really matter cos that is a better explanation of what iw as attempting to explain! > Where/when is heaven anyway? Or >perhaps all this God talk is pure hogwash, designed to distract us from the >real shitty things happening in our lives! Hmmmm. > >Perhaps I am too amused ;P > >Ron >L.A. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:07:48 -0500 From: "courtandspark@earthlink.net" Subject: RE: I Have A Dream Nothing but chills as I read this piece, too long away from my eyes and my mind. What a great, great man he was. Salute to you Martin. Thank You. love, mack Original Message: - ----------------- From: simon@icu.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:41:50 -0500 To: joni@smoe.org Subject: "I Have A Dream" THE Great American Speech Delivered on the steps at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C. August 28, 1963 "I Have A Dream" by The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of captivity. But one hundred years later, we must face the tragic fact that the Negro is still not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languishing in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. So we have come here today to dramatize an appalling condition. In a sense we have come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men would be guaranteed the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check which has come back marked "insufficient funds." But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. So we have come to cash this check -- a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to open the doors of opportunity to all of God's children. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment and to underestimate the determination of the Negro. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges. But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone. And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream. I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive. Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair. I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together. This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day. This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring." And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania! Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado! Let freedom ring from the curvaceous peaks of California! But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia! Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee! Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring. When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "They kill people who give hope in this culture." Joni Mitchell andmoreagain, - ------------ simon - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:15:51 -0500 From: "courtandspark@earthlink.net" Subject: RE: I Have A Dream My apologies to the Joni only crowd. I assumed, incorrectly, that the original post had the tag on it. It didn't. I could have included Joni as I listen to the thought provoking DED as I read the words. sorry again, mack Original Message: - ----------------- From: simon@icu.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:41:50 -0500 To: joni@smoe.org Subject: "I Have A Dream" THE Great American Speech Delivered on the steps at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C. August 28, 1963 "I Have A Dream" by The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of captivity. But one hundred years later, we must face the tragic fact that the Negro is still not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languishing in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. So we have come here today to dramatize an appalling condition. In a sense we have come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men would be guaranteed the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check which has come back marked "insufficient funds." But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. So we have come to cash this check -- a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to open the doors of opportunity to all of God's children. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment and to underestimate the determination of the Negro. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges. But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone. And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream. I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive. Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair. I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today. I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together. This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day. This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring." And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania! Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado! Let freedom ring from the curvaceous peaks of California! But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia! Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee! Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring. When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "They kill people who give hope in this culture." Joni Mitchell andmoreagain, - ------------ simon - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 00:40:18 -0000 From: "Eryl B Davies" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #51 Re: don't discuss-suggestionNJC [colin ] colin could we discuss this non discussion list? Eryl P.S. I think English is more interesting than just the variety of accents. For instance: If a vegetarian eats vegetables what does a humanitarian eat? or Why is there a difference between a wise man and a wise guy? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:51:53 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: I Have A Dream NJC --- "courtandspark@earthlink.net" wrote: > My apologies to the Joni only crowd. I assumed, > incorrectly, that the > original post had the tag on it. It didn't. I > could have included Joni as > I listen to the thought provoking DED as I read the > words. sorry again, > mack Well, y'know, apparently IVPaul is back and you're probably gonna hear it from him big time. LOL - You've been warned. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:59:10 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #51 so njc it ain't even funny --- Eryl B Davies wrote: > R> > P.S. I think English is more interesting than just > the variety of accents. For > instance: If a vegetarian eats vegetables what does > a humanitarian eat? or Why > is there a difference between a wise man and a wise guy? Aha. Here you go. I knew there was a reason I saved this (was it predestined to be? Not bloody likely.): 20 Reasons Why The English Language Is Hard To Learn: 1. The bandage was wound around the wound. 2. The farm was used to produce produce. 3. The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse. 4. We must polish the Polish furniture. 5. He could lead if he would get the lead out. 6. The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert. 7. Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present. 8. A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum. 9. When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes. 10. I did not object to the object. 11. The insurance was invalid for the invalid. 12. They were too close to the door to close it. 13. The buck does funny things when the does are present. 14. A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line. 15. To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow. 16. The wind was too strong to wind the sail. 17. After a number of injections my jaw got number. 18. Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear. 19. I had to subject the subject to a series of tests. 20. How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:06:38 -0500 From: vince Subject: Hello, Dalai NJC Paul has left us. He felt a call to join Richard Gere in following the Dally Lama and he was off to Tibet before he had a chance to say anything other than "Hare Krishna, beloved friends." Basically while Gere is in Hollywood doing the awards scene in prep for the Oscars, Paul will be serving in Gere's stead as the D. Lama's aide, spiritual counselor, prayer partner, and advisor. He will be missed but the call to serve all humanity through means of peaceful living and loving was a call that IVPaul could not resist. Catherine McKay wrote: >Well, y'know, apparently IVPaul is back and you're >probably gonna hear it from him big time. LOL - You've >been warned. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:37:51 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Subject: Frank Zappa's / Joni's house It should be noted that Frank Zappa himself never used drugs or alcohol, but smoked cigarettes heavily. At 11:53 AM 1/22/2003 -0800, Kate Bennett wrote: >fun to see this interesting place - what a history! houdini especially, >wow!...speaking of hedonism...i remember reading an interview with dweezil >zappa where he said that he never interested in doing drugs because of his >up close & personal experience of observing so many of his dad's friends >getting high & acting like idiots... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:08:07 +0800 From: "Australian Seashells" Subject: Anti-War Campaign in the US - NJC Hello Listers, even in Australia we now get news reports of the Anti-war groups in the US gathering momentum amidst all the conflicting reports on weapons inspections and what that might mean. Particularly impressive I found the story about a group called 'Not In Our Name' - they have published a statement of conscience wich I found very interesting reading (see www.nion.us). Take a look if you haven't done so yet. Cheers, Simone ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 21:06:47 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: American idol? njc My kids are down in the basement watching "American Idol" and all I can hear is this godawful shrieking and caterwauling. Is it a joke or a nightmare? These people are absolutely terrible! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:05:49 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: speaking english NJC > ya mean ya hafta sound like drew carey???? Yes, although ... ick! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:16:40 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: American idol? njc > Is it a joke or a nightmare? These people are absolutely terrible! I was watching that show last night, and I still haven't determined if all of the contestants are honestly hoping to make it into the music business, or if they're paid to be that awful. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:27:40 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: in HISTORY - Hejira At 12:45 PM 1/22/2003 -0500, wrote: >In the This Month is History section of jmdl, it >tells us that THOSL peaked at #4 on the U.S. charts, >and HEJIRA peaked at #13. That's amazing, huh? >With no hits on the radio? Wow. The popularity of Hejira is itself remarkable, and should not be dimininished by comparison to THOSL. I'm sure her albums peak numbers never again were that high. She lost a huge number of casual fans with DJRD, and certainly Mingus. Hejira was as popular as it was because it was still accessible to the ears of her original loyal fans (who were more mainstream than all of us on this list). I would argue that Hejira was the last album that Joni had complete control over musically. The musical structures were much simpler generally than all of hers since (and many before, for that matter), because they were composed and played exclusively BY HER ON GUITAR. I don't think it's a stretch to think of Hejira as a throwback to her considerably earlier work (at the time, STAS, Clouds, LOTC), with her on solo guitar. It's my understanding that Jaco's bass parts were overdubbed at a later date; in most cases, he's overdubbed at least twice, filling the sound with a haunting improvised melody complimenting Joni's singing, giving the impression of a larger and more jazz-oriented band than it was. (IMHO Hejira is Jaco's finest work in his brief and erratic career - he died in 1987). On all of Joni's albums subsequent to Hejira, she was collaborating in real time with other great musicians (Herbie, Mingus, Jaco, Wayne on every studio album since DJRD, and beginning with WTRF, Larry Klein), who no doubt exerted their influence. Joni and Jaco both (and they alone) utilize open strings (although in completely different ways: Joni with her unique tunings, and Jaco, always tuning conventionally, but using harmonics) exploiting the characteristics that make guitars (and basses) unique. The song Hejira, for example, is in the key of BMajor, arguably among the most awkward for piano (or any horns); while somewhat awkward on guitar (tuned conventionally), it's perfect for Joni's tunings (and for open strings on conventionally tuned bass). The structure of the song is so simple, that I can present it below. The chords are almost all straight major triads. The feel of the song is 4/4 all the way, with 4 beats per measure, 4x4 (16) measures per major section, except for the extra two bars in the bridge, that stretch out that part, building up tension, that is never resolved in the bridge. That is why the song has to end on the first part (with "I'm travelling in some vehicle, sitting in some cafe, a defector from these petty wars UNTIL LOVE SUCKS ME BACK THAT WAY") finally resolving on the BMajor chord. intro: C#m9 / D / B / E / Esus E B / B / E / Esus E B / :|repeat to intro last time bridge: E / B / E / F# / / / E / B / F# / E / :|repeat to intro all but last My favorite album of all time: Hejira Joni's best album (IMHO): Hejira My favorite songs: Hejira (off Hejira) and Hejira (T'Log) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:37:02 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: in HISTORY - Hejira Nice post Dan, very nice! > The musical structures were much simpler generally than all of hers > since (and many before, for that matter), because they were > composed and played exclusively BY HER ON GUITAR. > It's my understanding that Jaco's bass parts were overdubbed at a > later date; I believe that's true. I remember reading an interview in which Joni said that she wrote the entire album while on a coast-to-coast road trip, and the only instrument she had with her was her guitar. (Anyone else remember this?) It's been almost 26 years, and Hejira remains my favorite album of all time, by anyone. And yes, I agree that it's Joni's best work. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:41:57 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: in HISTORY - Hejira At 12:45 PM 1/22/2003 -0500, wrote: >In the This Month is History section of jmdl, it >tells us that THOSL peaked at #4 on the U.S. charts, >and HEJIRA peaked at #13. That's amazing, huh? >With no hits on the radio? Wow. Correction: the F# in the bridge starts one bar earlier than normal, which makes it feel like it's being stretched out extra bars. In fact, it's not (but there are two extra bars thrown in - the Benny Goodman part). intro: C#m9 / D / B / E / Esus E B / B / E / Esus E B / :|repeat to intro last time bridge: E / B / E F# / / E / B / F# / E / :|repeat to intro all but last My favorite album of all time: Hejira Joni's best album (IMHO): Hejira My favorite songs: Hejira (off Hejira) and Hejira (T'Log) ALSO: My Favorite album cover art: Hejira ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:43:59 EST From: Seulbzzaj@aol.com Subject: Claire Martin Sings Joni In a message dated 1/22/2003 10:25:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, tim_spong@hotmail.com writes: > OK, so today I found out that yet another jazz vocalist has done a cover of > "Blue Motel Room" - Claire Martin, who also has done a most excellent > version of "Be Cool". >> Claire Martin recorded a broadcast this past Sunday with Richard Rodney Bennett, and the program included "Amelia" and "Be Cool." Check out the BBC's website to hear the program. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:51:56 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #50 - Asian covers From what I can tell, a Chinese singer by the name of Agnes Chan got the ball rolling with her cover in 1971. She's apparently a big name in China, so several others followed suit, including: Lillian Ho Chan Mei Ling Tokyo's Coolest Combo Geez, I wonder if Joni gets royalties when the masses in China buy Agnes's record (or whatever happens)...potentially big bucks. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:59:53 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #51 -- big sellers way back when In the This Month is History section of jmdl, it tells us that THOSL peaked at #4 on the U.S. charts, and HEJIRA peaked at #13. That's amazing, huh? With no hits on the radio? Wow. Yes, no hit singles (though IFTKOMS) did briefly hit the top 40. But both albums were all over FM rock radio, however. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:12:50 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #51 -- Ohio accents, Very NJC that is what my 7th grade English teacher told me. She said that the American spoken around Cleveland was the purest dialect of the language. 7th grade English teachers do not lie. Hmmmm??? I'll have to look up "dialect" to see exactly what it means, but I believe this Cleveland reference refers to language usage (lack of odd local colloquialisms) and not to accent. I remember quite clearly Clevelanders having distinct accents. To the south, locals in Columbus and central Ohio have their own oddities ("pushe" rather than "push"). Anyway, that's more info than any of you needed I guess. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:20:26 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: the death of America now John Kennedy Toole NJC I also consider CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES as one of those books any literate person should read at least once in their lives. Ignatius Reilly's one-man battle with the rest of the civilization is funny and endearing in that he really believes in the (lost) causes he is espousing. But I have to admit that there are parts of the book I don't understand. Or maybe its the local Southern joke that kept it private from non-US Southerners. I was surprised to discover at a second-hand bookstore that Toole also wrote THE NEON BIBLE which he wrote when he was an adolescent. A truly talented author the world lost too soon. Joseph in Manila nr: (now reading) "Ella Fitzgerald: The FIrst Lady of Jazz" by Stuart Nicholson > Lori Fye wrote: > >> Ignatius J. Reilly lives! > > My favorite book! > > And for those of you who are also fans, I strongly recommend Ignatius > Rising: The Life of John Kennedy Toole. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:31:57 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: A New Standard? > In a message dated 1/21/2003 9:39:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, > messling@enter.net writes: > Good points, Bob! We were told in our literature class in college that what makes a classic a classic is the timelessness of the story, the passions evoked, etc. Maybe we can apply the same to a standard. After all, a standard is some kind of yardstick to gauge other people/song/idea/anything. > Good question, Deb...I have no pat answers but some thoughts. First I > would say that "Moon At The Window" has the potential to become a > standard. In the past year or so a couple of versions have been done. > Repetition is certainly a factor...look at the numbers of times that the > Rodgers/Hart, Gershwin, Bacharach, Hoagy Carmichael songbooks have been > raided. It would be silly to propose that songs like "Stardust", > "Summertime", "My Funny Valentine" are NOT standards, solely based on > the NUMBER of times they've been recorded. So what number makes a song a > standard, I dunno. There are Gershwin tunes that have not been over-recorded (like "Delish-yous") but are strangely referred to as standards by liner-notes writers. I don't know. Maybe its because it was written by a Gershwin (whose songs majority of which are now called standards) therefore its automatically a standard. I don't know the answer for that one. > For instance, how many standards use the > word "gay" in context of happiness as opposed to context of sexuality? Funny you mentioned this because yesterday while I was listening to Shirley Horn sing "He Was Too Good For Me" (from her live album "I Love You, Paris"), there was a line that says: "I was a queen to him; who would make me feel so gay now..." At the risk of sounding like someone with an automatic heterosexualist framework, but I always assumed that that song is being sung by a woman to another man. But now, I don't know. Joseph in Manila np: Joe Henderson "Big Band" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:33:44 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: speaking english NJC Wally, it's become fashionable in England to speak that way, as a way of sticking two fingers up to our class system. The dialect is called Thames Estuary, and it's a sort of mix between BBC English and East End English (where "Dave" sounds like "dive"). A lot of the people surrounding Tony Blair speak that way (and even Blair does sometimes) and those that don't, pretend to. And the London Mayor, Ken Livingstone, has that accent too. A Scottish accent is regarded as the really cool thing to have (at the moment), and apparently more people vote for Scottish (in polls) as being the most honest-sounding of all the British accents than any other, so advertisers are always on the lookout for Scots to do their voiceovers. It's amazing how many accents are crammed into such a small island. Here in Canada - which is I don't know how many times the size of the UK - we have basically two accents: Newfoundland and everywhere else, eh. Sarah From: "Wally Kairuz" i feel the opposite when i hear british speakers, especially londoners. even very educated speakers seem to have adopted a lot of cockney sounds. london's *dave* rhymes with america's *dive*, for example. i thought all that had been cleared up in my fair lady. don't people in london feel it is vulgar to sound that way? you hear it even on the bbc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:03:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: speaking english NJC sarah!!! what you tell me is so amazing! it's a revolutionary phenomenon. i am a phonetics freak -- a crime mike pritchard is so fond of accusing me of -- and if you only knew the countless volumes that written recommending RP as the ONLY way to sound posh in the UK. so what would happen if the labour party lost the population's favor? would everybody try to sound like olivier again? and it is simply NOT fair. now it turns out that les ross not only is beautiful but has THE accent too. most unkind of him. thanks for the information, by the way. love, wally ps: as to canadian english, i identified some five varieties when i was there. by the way, can you believe that canada is only SLIGHTLY smaller than europe? w - -----Mensaje original----- De: sl.m@shaw.ca [mailto:sl.m@shaw.ca] Enviado el: Jueves, 23 de Enero de 2003 02:34 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org; joni-digest@smoe.org; wallykai@fibertel.com.ar Asunto: Re: speaking english NJC Wally, it's become fashionable in England to speak that way, as a way of sticking two fingers up to our class system. (...) A Scottish accent is regarded as the really cool thing to have (...) Here in Canada - which is I don't know how many times the size of the UK - we have basically two accents: Newfoundland and everywhere else, eh. Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 00:06:05 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: Worry - NJC Our local news tonight reported on Connecticut troops being sent to Iraq. As the tension rises, I can only say that I am truly worried and angry. I usually do not do this but I just finished Laura Nyro's biography 'Soul Picnic' and I felt compelled to quote one of Laura's poignant songs: Come on people come on children come on down to the glory river gonna wash you up gonna wash you down gonna lay that devil down Come on people come on children there's a king at the glory river and the precious king he loved the people to sing babies in the blinkin' sun sang we shall overcome! Come on people sons and mothers Keep the dream of the two young brothers gonna take the dream and ride the dove we could build the dream with love I got fury in my soul fury's gonna take me to the glory goal in my mind I can't study war no more save the people save the children save the country Thanks for letting me share. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:18:36 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: RE: speaking english NJC Wally, if Labour were to fall out of favor, Estuary English would still be the in-thing because so many in the Conservative Party have tried to copy it -- to sound electable -- that they'd be unable to revert. Plus we have people like Sebastian Coe in the House of Lords. The only people left speaking RP are the Queen and Prince Charles, and linguists would probably argue even they don't speak it, given no-one can understand a word they're saying. Interesting phonetics titbit: people from South London can't say "th". They say Sarf London. I've sat with friends from the Vauxhall area over bottles of Baileys for whole evenings, going th, th, th -- for hours on end, in front of mirrors and what have you, because they so badly wanted to learn to do it, but no -- f, f, f -- was all that would come out. . . fis, fat, fere etc. So sad. . . ;-) Sarah At 2:03 AM -0300 01/23/2003, Wally Kairuz wrote: >sarah!!! what you tell me is so amazing! it's a revolutionary phenomenon. i >am a phonetics freak -- a crime mike pritchard is so fond of accusing me >of -- and if you only knew the countless volumes that written recommending >RP as the ONLY way to sound posh in the UK. so what would happen if the >labour party lost the population's favor? would everybody try to sound like >olivier again? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 00:52:41 -0500 From: "Benjamin Pearce" Subject: Shadows & Light DVD Hi All, Just wondering if anyone can point me at a place on the web that sells the Shadows & Light DVD? Cheers, Greg - -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Meet Singles http://corp.mail.com/lavalife ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 01:08:54 -0500 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: NRH/Favorite Joni "look" First my thanx to Bob for his really nice compliment!! You are awesome !! Maybe I went a bit too far on playin Winfall at a club but the beat is still kick ass..One of my friends said she thought the bass reminded her of John Deacon from Queen..I see how...On a different note ..I was looking around my bedroom at the album covers that fill most of my walls and the joni "selections" hanging up are: the front cover of clouds, the inside sleeve of Miles of Aisles, and the front cover of Hejira..I started to think of what my favorite Joni era is as far as fashion(hair,clothes makeup etc..)And I was wondering what everyone else thought of this...My favorite is Hejira...with the fierce black beret contrasting her beautiful blonde hair..Just a fun lil thing to send everyones way..Hope the day is bringing you all something groovy..Peace love and light to you all ***kevin**** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:32:48 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Shadows & Light DVD You will have to get it in the 'grey' market-as it has apparently not been released anywhere but Singapore. You can find it on ebay for about $25. It claims to be 5.1 surround, but I have my doubts about that. Maybe they ran it through some kind of a simulator. Anyone know? Here's a typical ebay listing (I bought mine from this guy as a matter of fact) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3307615258&category=2303 RR Benjamin Pearce wrote: > Hi All, > > Just wondering if anyone can point me at a place on the web > that sells the Shadows & Light DVD? > > Cheers, > > Greg > -- > __________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup > > Meet Singles > http://corp.mail.com/lavalife ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 22:37:51 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: FW: A week like no other. NJC excerpts from a growing movement that IS making a difference...sign up at http://www.moveon.org/support.html >> This week exceeded our wildest dreams. Our plan was to launch an anti-war television ad campaign, hold 12 local press conferences, grow our "Let the Inspections Work" petition, and have meetings in Congressional offices around the country. ... We didn't expect, frankly, to have 100,000 new members join our organization this week. We didn't expect to be able to deliver a petition with over 310,000 American signers --... We never thought that our ad -- carrying the "Let the Inspections Work" message -- would be aired on virtually every major TV news show. We never thought George Stephanopoulos would show it to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and grill him on the dangers of war. We never imagined it would be broadcast and discussed on news programs in Australia, Pakistan, Russia, and Japan.... We didn't anticipate that a new national poll, taken on the very days our story was playing everywhere, would show public support for war plummeting, or that this poll would be the top story in today's Washington Post.<<< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 01:44:52 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: in HISTORY Well, yes and no. There might not have been any 'spins' on AM radio but by then, it was all "happening" on FM anyway. I'll bet you that "Amelia" and "Coyote" were pressed as 45 singles although, here too, the action was in elsewhere: LP, cassette and 8 track. Lama >>>>> In the This Month is History section of jmdl, it tells us that THOSL peaked at #4 on the U.S. charts, and HEJIRA peaked at #13. That's amazing, huh? With no hits on the radio? Wow. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #52 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)