From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #45 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, January 20 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 045 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- looking for Eric (NJC) [Nuriel Tobias ] Tori Amos cover of A Case of You ["Tamsin Lucas" ] RE: January 20 ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Tori does Joni ["Tamsin Lucas" ] Re: war protests (PC, NJC) ["kakki" ] RT in Paris NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: RT in Paris NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] The LA Joni Tour [Steve Dulson ] anti-copying, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: anti-copying, njc [David Sadowski ] Lonely nights and DED [Merk54@aol.com] Joni's citizenship [Little Bird ] Play that Weird Minor Chord ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: The LA Joni Tour ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord [Les Irvin ] Re: Lonely nights and DED ["Bree Mcdonough" ] T'LOGUE and epiphany ["Lucy Hone" ] re:Epiphanies and Dirges, Paprika colors and other tidbits & now my tidbits ["J.David Sapp" ] A sideways look at oil njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: RT in Paris NJC now copying CDs [Catherine McKay ] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord [Dan Olson ] Re: RT in Paris NJC now copying CDs [colin ] Re: A sideways look at oil njc [colin ] Re: The 100 songs that changed the world NJC [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord [Catherine McKay ] Re: Anti-war in SF njc [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord, now =?ISO-8859-1?Q?declass=E9?= [vince <] Joni Epiphanies [Catherine McKay ] Re: Anti-Americanism NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Just War NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord [Dflahm@aol.com] Apology [vince ] Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord [Dan Olson ] Re: Antiwar groups NJC, PC ["Lori Fye" ] Fw: Peace NJC ["gene mock" ] Re: Joni EpiphaniesNJC [frasere@intergate.ca] The Times, They Are Not Changin' (NJC, PC) ["Lori Fye" Subject: looking for Eric (NJC) Hi everyone, Sorry to bother the whole group with this matter: I am looking for my dear friend Eric Taylor. Eric, I've lost your email adress, could you please mail me. Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:21:06 +0000 From: "Tamsin Lucas" Subject: Tori Amos cover of A Case of You Would someone be able to tell me where I might get a copy of/a listen to Tori doing A Case of You and/or River. I've heard neither and would love to (she did River about 3 times on the N American Scarlett's tour just before Xmas btw)? Sorry if this is known or the info is easily available on the site and I just couldn't find it. I would really really love to hear these particular covers. thanks, tamsin _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:12:13 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Tori Amos cover of A Case of You In a message dated 1/20/2003 7:21:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, tamsinjanelucas@hotmail.com writes: > Would someone be able to tell me where I might get a copy > of/a listen to > Tori doing A Case of You and/or River. They should both be available through kazaa (a file sharing program much like Napster) There was a Tori website that had "River" as a download. Don't know if it's still out there, you might try www.google.com and typing in "Tori Amos" +River and see what you can find. E-bay ALWAYS has Tori cd's for sale with ACOY; River is rarer but shows up there as well. I'll be happy to burn a cd with both tracks if you want to send me a blank cd and a self-addressed stamped envelope, or the costs for same. Bob NP: Eddie From Ohio, "Fire" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 08:33:54 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Dirges, Paprika colors and other tidbits. In a message dated 1/19/2003 12:55:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnirving@tbcnet.com writes: > When she has... let's see, hmmmmmm... Lead Balloon, > Ray Dad's Cadillac, and the much, much loved Dancing Clown. -Joni, > swing? Ray's Dad's Cadillac - a ROCK song? Not to these ears. Dancing Clown is just a dreadful song, period. You couldn't dress it up in anything and get away with it, unless it was some type of burial garment. Lead Balloon is only slightly better. I would firstly point to Raised On Robbery as Joni showing that she can rock in the classic 12-bar style. Wild Things Run Fast (not just the title track but many on the record) would be submitted as further proof, not to mention her 1983 tour which re-framed several of her earlier songs in a stronger more rocking vein. Of course given her vocal strength (or lack thereof) at present I would submit that her rocking days are behind her, and I don't mean that in any sort of derogatory way. Jason Falkner, Pinhead Gunpowder, Erinn Brown & a host of others also prove that her *songs* can rock. > -so I have to respectfully diagree with you on this one > Bobbo. (And that's not easy for me, as you are lord god among the > masses.) As you know, my friend, no offense taken at all. Indeed I was grateful not to see the words "Iraq", "Bush", or "Smoking Gun" in your post! :~) I guess what's really bumming me is this: I admire Joni first & foremost as a composer & songwriter. If you look at her last half-dozen discs, there's a grand total of (9) new songs. It's just frustrating for me, especially when some of those 9 are as strong as Harlem in Havana, Facelift, Love Puts On A New Face. So I guess I'm only going to be disappointed with her "Joni as interpretive vocalist" revue projects. That's my problem to deal with, and certainly no fault of Joni's. Bob NP: Eddie From Ohio, "Another Saturday Night" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:22:37 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Antiwar groups NJC, PC Lori wrote: > And if they are Marxist/Socialist, this is entirely bad? I first mentioned that ANSWER, who has been the prime organizer of the antiwar protests was a (in many eyes hard radical) Marxist group in my question to Sarah several days ago where she said to the effect that supporting antiwar efforts was supporting the CIA's anti-democratic agenda towards Iraq. She then explained what she meant in response to my post. It just seemed ironic that the CIA would be in league with Marxists, and my original question was posed with irony. I am sorry for offending any Marxists/Communists here on the list by speaking of ANSWER's idealogy. > Socialism and Communism do not automatically equal "evil," regardless of how hard > U.S. politicians and corporations have tried (and continue to try) to > make us believe that. (I can remember being a youngster in the 1960s, > when no one bothered to explain Communism to me; rather, they just spit > out the word "Communist" as if they were saying "Satan.") Yes, I remember those days, too. > There are a lot of thing wrong with Capitalism, too, but I won't even > begin to "go there" right now, as it's another huge can of worms. But > please consider this: "our" way is not the only "right" way. Guess I just see it as the lesser of the evils. To me one system represents slavery, stagnation and deprivation while I see more opportunity for freedom, growth and prosperity in the other. One system demands that everyone think the same and defer to a state-run, one party ideaology. The other system offers more opportunity for everyone, regardless of their beliefs or idealogy, to contribute and participate. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 9:3:56 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: January 20 > 2002: "Joni gives me a warm glow in this chilly land" - Daily Mail > (Opinion) > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=974 Allison gives me a warm glow in this Joni land! Happy Birthday Allison!!! love, Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:04:35 +0000 From: "Tamsin Lucas" Subject: Re: Tori does Joni Thanks so much Bob - though I do feel a little ditzy for not thinking of that... Anyway, I am happily burning both downloads to a CD and as soon as I get in the car after work... can't wait :-) >From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com > >They should both be available through kazaa (a file sharing program much >like Napster) > > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:37:41 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: war protests (PC, NJC) Mary wrote: > But I'll need a little more convincing with evidence before I believe that "hard radical Marxist > groups" were "amazingly organized" in the days immediately following 9/11. > According to whom? And what exactly does "amazingly organized" mean? To do > what? What DID they do? Organize rallies? Fund them? Call people? What? > And how widespread was whatever practice they engaged in? The ANSWER group (who supports North Korea, Milosevic and is pro-Palestinian) seemed to come out of nowhere within days of 9/11 organizing antiwar protests against any U.S. move into Afghanistan. I just personally found it amazing that any group could be so sure of its position at a time when it seemed most of the rest of the world was still figuring out what happened. As others have answered, these groups are always organized and ready to go in a moment's notice. It is not surprising to some people, but I admit it is surprising to me. > My political beliefs are more complex and informed by more than simply who > happens to be occupying the White House at any given moment. Please give me a > little credit. Yes, I am a Democrat. Yes, accordingly, I tend to support the > ideas and goals and policies of the Democratic party, and of Democratic > politicians. But I will give anyone a fair hearing, and I will, I hope, > carefully consider and weigh the evidence on both sides (I have no small > professional training at this). I would never doubt that you would give a fair hearing to the issues. > In the meantime: yes, we on the left have been selective about which wars > we've protested (although some, of course, have consistently opposed all war). > But THERE ARE REASONS, political and philosophical, for the differences! And > those reasons may vary from person to person, group to group, but they are > there. Please give me a little credit, too, Mary, for having a grasp of this. ;-) > Kakki, except for the fact that his policies during that time regarding both > Bosnia/Kosovo and Iraq of course make him fair game for any serious political > discussion here about those countries and regions, this really isn't about > Bill Clinton. Specifically, it isn't about the left's unwavering and > unquestioning support for him, a notion that I sense--again, rightly or > wrongly--is behind quite a bit of your post. Vince challenged me to go look at those posts. I don't recall bringing up Clinton first. > In any event, like Elvis, Bill Clinton has left the building. > Give it up. He's gone. Oh he's still around! Out there giving speeches all around the world every week for large fees and pretty frequently second guessing or criticizing what Bush does in those speeches and getting press coverage for his remarks. Yes, he has every right to speak out and earn money and so on, but as the last recent president putting his opinion out there, he does invite response. But I'd actually rather talk of him as little as possible. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:53:43 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: RT in Paris NJC > It's so rare that the amazing Richard Thompson is performing in Paris > that I thought I'd pass this along for anyone there (Laurent, Bobsart's > daughter) who may be interested. He is one person that needs to be seen > live to be truly appreciated. (Really! one man sounding like three > guitarists! How can that be?) And it's in a 200-seat theater. That would > be great! In my extremely biased opinion, I'd call that a > not-to-be-missed experience. > Hi Debra, Got my tickets reserved. Thanks so much for pointing this out, I would probably not have caught it or too late. Will try to tape it if you're interested. Speaking of taping, does anyone know how to bypass the anti-copying features on some CDs? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:18:44 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: RT in Paris NJC In a message dated 1/20/2003 12:53:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, olszer@xlsecurity.com writes: > Speaking of taping, does anyone know how to bypass the > anti-copying features > on some CDs? I've never tried this, because I have my trusty Philips, but I read that if you take a black magic marker and go around the outer rim of the cd it will obstruct the file that is blocking the burn and allow you to copy it. Like I say, I've never tried it, never seen it done - just read it on the web. Another alternative would be to copy the tracks to your hard drive and then transfer them back to the CDR. Bob NP: Earth, Wind & Fire, "After The Love Is Gone" PS: Enjoy the RT gig...I saw him at The Handlebar in 2001 and he was spellbinding. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:37:00 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: The LA Joni Tour Hello all! Now that Coyote Rick has spilled the beans about the LA Jonifest, I want to solicit suggestions for the Joni tour Michele and I will be conducting on June 7. The obvious spots are: *Joni's Laurel Canyon house *The former A & M Records (and former Charlie Chaplin Pictures) building, where Joni recorded most of her albums) *The Troubadour (legendary club where Joni played - we could also go by the Whiskey-a-Go-Go, Roxy, Universal Amphitheatre (where MOA was recorded), Hollywood Bowl, etc. if anyone is interested) *The gates to Bel Air and the Bel Air Hotel (Joni watering hole) *The Daily Grill (site of the now-legendary Joni meetings with Les Irvin, Kakki and Stephen Epstein) Any other suggestions? There are of course a ton of other movie/music sites in Hollywood. Access to any of the sites is problematical - you will probably just be seeing the outside. For obvious reasons, Joni's current residence is NOT on the tour. :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:01:42 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: anti-copying, njc > > Speaking of taping, does anyone know how to bypass the > > anti-copying features > > on some CDs? > > I've never tried this, because I have my trusty Philips, but I read that if you take a black magic marker and go around the outer rim of the cd it will obstruct the file that is blocking the burn and allow you to copy it. > Like I say, I've never tried it, never seen it done - just read it on the web. > > Another alternative would be to copy the tracks to your hard drive and then transfer them back to the CDR. > > Bob Hey, I'm going to try the marker tomorrow. Can't copy onto the hard drive though because the CD cannot be read by PCs. Also, this one has a clear circle on the surface, about 1/3 " from the edge. Perhaps this is the anti-copying feature? First time I encounter one of those buggers. Thanks Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:02:02 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: anti-copying, njc Exact Audio Copy can be used to copy so-called "copy protected" cds. Laurent Olszer wrote: >>>Speaking of taping, does anyone know how to bypass the >>>anti-copying features >>>on some CDs? >>> >>> >>I've never tried this, because I have my trusty Philips, but I read that >> >> >if you take a black magic marker and go around the outer rim of the cd it >will obstruct the file that is blocking the burn and allow you to copy it. > > >>Like I say, I've never tried it, never seen it done - just read it on the >> >> >web. > > >>Another alternative would be to copy the tracks to your hard drive and >> >> >then transfer them back to the CDR. > > >>Bob >> >> > >Hey, I'm going to try the marker tomorrow. Can't copy onto the hard drive >though because the CD cannot be read by PCs. >Also, this one has a clear circle on the surface, about 1/3 " from the edge. >Perhaps this is the anti-copying feature? First time I encounter one of >those buggers. >Thanks > >Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:34:41 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Lonely nights and DED Mack, Just catching up on a backlog of emails, and was touched by a couple of your recent posts - in particular your Lonely Wisconsin Night post, and your DED post. I hope things are looking up for you - things sounded rather bleak in that first post. I also found your DED post very insightful. I'm one of the few who also like DED very much, but what I really found interesting was your comments about how Joni's other albums really just brought your attention to things you somehow already knew, while DED opened your eyes to things you hadn't thought about before. For some reason I found this fasinating. Hejira is one of my favorite Joni albums, and the one that I can mostly relate to. It felt like I was listening to a musical diary of my life at the time. It's familiarity was startling, and one of the reasons it resonated with me so much. This 'listening to my life' is a re-occurring comment from most of Joni's fans. Your comment that DED "opened my mind to avenues, thoughts that I had not traveled, known before." is a stark contrast to "that album was like a mirror" comments so common with Joni's music. I wonder if maybe that's one of the reasons DED is so often looked at as a low point in Joni's career. A lot of people blame the prodution values, but I wonder if there's more to this than just the sound. Maybe it's just that they can't make a personal connection to the lyrics, as they've done on some many of her other albums. Anyway, you've given me plenty to think about today. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:34:47 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni's citizenship Does anyone know if Joni has dual citizenship (Canadian/American) or if she has become a full-fledged Yankee? Joni quote (1981, CBC television, Juno Award's Lifetime Achievement): "I feel Canadian when I come back to Canada. When I think of the things I did in Canada, I feel Canadian. But when I return [to the U.S.] I feel like an American because I've lived there for 15 years and things have changed so much." - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:15:27 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Play that Weird Minor Chord Hello, You know that famous Joni line of course from the Mingus album. Well I was wondering, and this is a question for musicians: what is the type of mode/chords/harmonies/??? that is the common link between, say, Joni, David Crosby, Jack Bruce, Mingus, to name a few? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:07:47 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: The LA Joni Tour Darn this sounds like fun.. unfortunately I will be in Corning ..NY on those dates. IF..I could have attended...I would love to see all the spots you mentioned!!! Also, LA planetarium where the fight scene took place in Rebel Without A Cause is something I have always wanted to see. Of course the Daily Grill would be on my top of the list. Hmmm? I wonder why? But..I still hold out hope for this sometime in the future because of a certain canyon lady on the list. Bree >Now that Coyote Rick has spilled the beans about the LA Jonifest, >I want to solicit suggestions for the Joni tour Michele and I >will be conducting on June 7. The obvious spots are: > >*Joni's Laurel Canyon house >*The former A & M Records (and former Charlie Chaplin Pictures) >building, where Joni recorded most of her albums) >*The Troubadour (legendary club where Joni played - we could >also go by the Whiskey-a-Go-Go, Roxy, Universal Amphitheatre >(where MOA was recorded), Hollywood Bowl, etc. if anyone is >interested) >*The gates to Bel Air and the Bel Air Hotel (Joni watering hole) >*The Daily Grill (site of the now-legendary Joni meetings with >Les Irvin, Kakki and Stephen Epstein) > >Any other suggestions? There are of course a ton of other >movie/music sites in Hollywood. > ################################################### >Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com >"The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com >"The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:29:22 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord At 1/20/2003 01:15 PM, Laurent Olszer wrote: >You know that famous Joni line of course from the Mingus album. Not to be over anal about it, but wasn't it actually Sue Mingus who uttered that line? Les, asking more so than correcting... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:41:13 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Lonely nights and DED >Mack, > >Just catching up on a backlog of emails, and was touched by a couple of >your recent posts - in particular your Lonely Wisconsin Night post, and >your DED post. > >I hope things are looking up for you - things sounded rather bleak in that >first post. I also found your DED post very insightful. I'm one of the >few who also like DED very much, but what I really found interesting was >your comments about how Joni's other albums really just brought your >attention to things you somehow already knew, while DED opened your eyes to >things you hadn't thought about before. For some reason I found this >fasinating. I agree with you Jack...about the insightfulness of Mack's DED post. This was one of the most insightful posts I've ever read here. I never cared for DED..but since Mack loves it so, I've listened and listened. And it has really grown on me. I think you hit the nail on the head Jack..I just could not ..well there was nothing to hang on to for me before. Once you are able to grasp and it becomes personal.. DED becomes quite intoxicating. Mack...you might be cold and lonely in Wisconsin..but your words have warmed me to the core. Bree >Your comment that DED "opened my mind to avenues, >thoughts that I had not traveled, known before." is a stark contrast to >"that album was like a mirror" comments so common with Joni's music. A >lot of people blame the prodution values, but I wonder if there's more to >this than just the sound. Maybe it's just that they can't make a personal >connection to the lyrics, as they've done on some many of her other albums. > >Anyway, you've given me plenty to think about today. > >Jack _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:44:31 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: T'LOGUE and epiphany Well Hello all I have listened to Travelogue about 4 times now and I have to say I like it a lot. I have to think of it as an exhibition of paintings and when I put the CD in my computer to store it on to Realplayer that was what I got!!!! An amazing slide show of her pictures!!!!, loved that and didn't know it was there......so I feel she somehow connected with me on that score. Some of you may say, "Oh come on Luce" but I am someone who does not pore over sleeve notes, does not read endless biographies or know the track listing of even my favourite Joni CD's and albums from years ago. I know I just love her music. Some T'LOG tracks I love more than others; but there is nothing that leaves me cold, or disappointed. Yes her voice has changed but then very few of us can sing with the same register we did 30 years ago......I certainly can't. But that does not alter her musical prowess or vision, and T'LOG is, I think, a vision. She is, after all an accomplished artist...not to everyone's taste but good enough. My Epiphany came with hearing "Little Green" through and open window one day in 1971... It came floating out of the house of a friend of mine and I just HAD to have that song. I realised I had found one of the voices I wanted to have... I added her to my collection of "If there is a voice God then could I have the voice of Sandy Denny (Fairport Convention) Joan Baez, and then added Joni Mitchell" Somewhere I still have the book in which I made notes about people I admired for various reasons...and the pleas for Joni's voice is in there... Any way... I went home, raided my Piggy Bank and took my money to Weston Hart in Gosport (where I have since returned to live) and bought BLUE... It was my first Joni album, I now realise. It got followed with more and more albums over the years. I have not got everything she has produced but intend to buy the ones I lack and will buy them blind as I did T'LOG I think what I like is her fearlessness...... no contractural obligation thing with her...its "this is what I wanted to do and here it is"...... and we like it or not... You can compare her versatility with James Taylor, I think (another favourite of mine,) He does what he wants to do and someof it is great, some of it not so wonderful. I happen to think October Road is bland...... I also rate her alongside Van Morrison (another fave) as he can do it all, rock, ballad, jazz, you name it and in his style and in his own good time THANK YOU VERY MUCH... (for those of you who have seen him live you will understand that comment) I should have loved to see Joni at the Isle of Wight '70 had I not been 13 and forbidden to go with my brother... who saw her (well I would imagine he saw her through colours brightly!!!!) but he heard her sing live and at a concert that really shook this region... you could hear the applause on the mainland!! and we watched the "great unwashed " crowding onto the paddlesteamers that went from the pier head at Portsmouth Harbour... I think the reason T'LOG is not being played on Radio is that the songs are meant for personal enjoyment and they are not easy listening and are not commercial. I expect some of T'LOG gets played on late night "easy" stations as they are rather special. They do not fit into daytime mainstream playlists for the vast hoards who listen without listening to the pap that gets put out there. Anyway that is another on the "thumbs up" list as far as I am concerned. It is always possible to intellectualise a like or dislike but I go for GUT FEEL and what I feel is grateful. Grateful that I have in my life the enjoyment of an artist who is a real artist, and who puts her art on the line..... WELL DONE JONI.......standing ovation from me... Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:33:53 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: re:Epiphanies and Dirges, Paprika colors and other tidbits & now my tidbits I'm on digest mode and received 2 great posts today. Mack - an epiphany with DED - what a great story and I believe stories such as yours are the reason Joni continues to share her gifts. John you're posts are so often enlightening. Sex Kills is the only cut on T'log I don't care for, but then I've never cared for the song but appreciate her intention. I'll try it again after reading your analysis. I think it may work for me - thank you. (sorry guys I didn't save your eadd's so this is going to jmdl) Now my own tidbits: Have you noticed the 4 electronic beeps at the very end of T'log's SofS? Interesting Joni coloration. And when she sings: And it made most people nervous They just didn't want to know What I was seeing in the refuge of the roads On the T'log version she puts an interesting little grunt at the end of *seeing*. It almost sounds like another word such as "seeing there". But there is no extra word in the lyric sheet. Interesting.... peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:36:28 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord At 01:29 PM 1/20/2003 -0700, Les Irvin wrote: >wasn't it actually Sue Mingus who uttered that line? I think you're right...and now I'm wondering to whom it was directed. Many (most?) jazz chords are complex and often convey dissonance through their diminished notes and added 6ths, 7ths, and 9ths. And while many of Joni's "peculiar" (her description) chords are complex and contain these same elements, I wonder if the call for that "weird minor chord" is a summons for one of Joni's, which are many times based on suspended 4th and minor 3rd variations. My recollection is the banter on "Mingus" was from a few folks (Sue, Swede, Charlie) hanging around the Mingus camp at that time. But is it possible that Charles was composing a song for the collaboration with Joni, and Sue was telling him he should insert one of Joni's chords...ah but to have been a fly on the wall... Scott, who thinks Joni showed us all just how fantastic her vocal talents were when she recorded that album. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:24:01 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: A sideways look at oil njc In the light of the current debate about to what extent oil plays a part in the current preparations to bomb Iraq to buggery, here's an alternative way of fuelling cars... http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,878122,00.html Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 18:24:48 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: RT in Paris NJC now copying CDs olszer@xlsecurity.com writes: > > > Speaking of taping, does anyone know how to bypass > the > > anti-copying features > > on some CDs? --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Another alternative would be to copy the tracks to > your hard drive and then transfer them back to the > CDR. When I do this, everything is fine, except for the first track which is always distorted (with a few exceptions, those usually being older CDs where I guess they weren't using the security feature.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:51:53 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord Does anyone know what the quote is? Was "that 'weird minor chord'" in the quote? One chord that stands out would be the F7#9 (the opening chord of Goodbye Porkpie Hat, perhaps Mingus' most famous chart), with both a major third (in the F7) and a minor third (an octave higher, the #9). For those with an instrument, play the notes F A C Eb G#. Dan At 02:36 PM 1/20/2003 -0800, Scott Price wrote: >At 01:29 PM 1/20/2003 -0700, Les Irvin wrote: >>wasn't it actually Sue Mingus who uttered that line? > > >I think you're right...and now I'm wondering to whom it was directed. Many >(most?) jazz chords are complex and often convey dissonance through their >diminished notes and added 6ths, 7ths, and 9ths. And while many of Joni's >"peculiar" (her description) chords are complex and contain these same >elements, I wonder if the call for that "weird minor chord" is a summons >for one of Joni's, which are many times based on suspended 4th and minor >3rd variations. > >My recollection is the banter on "Mingus" was from a few folks (Sue, >Swede, Charlie) hanging around the Mingus camp at that time. But is it >possible that Charles was composing a song for the collaboration with >Joni, and Sue was telling him he should insert one of Joni's chords...ah >but to have been a fly on the wall... > >Scott, >who thinks Joni showed us all just how fantastic her vocal talents were >when she recorded that album. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:55:35 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord I would add to your list other great jazz composers: Thelonious Monk, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, and especially, Wayne Shorter, who penned more jazz tunes from the mid-fiftes to mid-seventies than perhaps any other composer; who is certainly among the very few extremely prolific jazz composers (Mingus and Ellington also come to mind). If I'm not mistaken, Wayne Shorter has played with Joni coninuously since '78 (on EVERY album since DJRD with possible exception of CMinRS). Obviously, this extraordinay jazz legend (Wayne Shorter) has found working with Joni satisfies his needs for creative outlet (since Weather Report fizzled in the early '80s). It's not far-fetched to consider Joni's last TWENTY-FIVE years to be collabortation with Wayne Shorter (and let's not overlook the continuity and contribution of Larry Klein, but that would be another thread). Fully half of Wayne's creative output (not strictly composing) in his incredibly long career has been with Joni. Dan At 08:15 PM 1/20/2003 +0000, Laurent Olszer wrote: >Hello, > >You know that famous Joni line of course from the Mingus album. >Well I was wondering, and this is a question for musicians: what is the type >of mode/chords/harmonies/??? >that is the common link between, say, Joni, David Crosby, Jack Bruce, Mingus, >to name a few? > >Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 02:07:18 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: RT in Paris NJC now copying CDs I copy all the cd's I buy for backup. Maybe the ones I ahev bought are considered crap and the companies dont' car if i copy them becase thay have all copied fine. >> >> > >When I do this, everything is fine, except for the >first track which is always distorted (with a few >exceptions, those usually being older CDs where I >guess they weren't using the security feature.) > >===== >Catherine >Toronto > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 02:20:15 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: A sideways look at oil njc so all this time thbnere has been an alternative to oil from underground? All along we could be using vegetable oil? Fucking evil bastards. AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: >In the light of the current debate about to what extent oil plays a part in >the current preparations to bomb Iraq to buggery, here's an alternative way >of fuelling cars... > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,878122,00.html > >Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:40:11 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: The 100 songs that changed the world NJC In a message dated 1/17/03 2:17:16 AM, ink08@hotmail.com writes: >Many congratulations on the commission; can we buy it? Where and how? Thanks, Mike. If you mean where can you buy a recording [of "The Song at the Red Sea"], there isn't one ... yet. If you mean where can you buy a score and parts for performance, feel free to e-mail me off-list. And much thanks for your interest. All best, Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:46:05 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord --- Dan Olson wrote: > Does anyone know what the quote is? Was "that > 'weird minor chord'" in the > quote? It's in one of the raps on Mingus. They (whoever "they" are) are singing Happy Birthday to Mingus. There's an argument about how old he really is. Someone's playing it on the piano. In the midst of the playing and singing, someone (most people think it's his wife Sue and it sounds like the same person who's arguing with him about his real age, so it's gotta be her) says, "Play that weird minor chord". I presume she's talking about playing a minor chord within their singing of Happy Birthday. (The chord you mention is very cool, by the way, and fits the description of weird.) >One chord that stands out would be the F7#9 > (the opening chord of > Goodbye Porkpie Hat, perhaps Mingus' most famous > chart), with both a major > third (in the F7) and a minor third (an octave > higher, the #9). For those > with an instrument, play the notes F A C Eb G#. > ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:48:33 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Anti-war in SF njc Randy Remote writes: >Witnesses of the anti-war protest in San Francisco estimate that >300,000-400,000 people are in attendance. Happening right now, >There is live coverage from KPFA (Real Audio) at: >http://www.kmud.org/ My uncle and aunt were there, and they were also there 30 + years ago. They said the weather was beautiful, everyone was very friendly and peaceful, and Joan Baez sang. The more things don't change ... - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:56:13 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord, now =?ISO-8859-1?Q?declass=E9?= Why I am a personality mis-fit within the JMDL and will surely get voted of the island: I saw the tread title and the two words, "Play that..." were enough to get me singing "Play that funky music, white boy..." And then you all be talking Mingus and I all be all thinking Wild Cherry... the cultural gap widens with me in the philistine corner. Oh well, I am low class and it shows. I am even watching MTV right now, Real World and Road Rules teams competing against each other, and rather interested in who gets voted off next, that bitch Michelle did Kelly in so bad... Vince the low life NPIMH: Yeah, There was a funky singer, playin' in a rock & roll band And never had no problems, yeah, burnin' down one night stands And everything around me, yeah, got to stop to feelin' so low And I decided quickly (yes I did), to disco down and check out the show Yeah they was dancin' and singin' and movin' to the groovin' And just when it hit me somebody turned around and shouted Play that funky music white boy Play that funky music right Play that funky music white boy Lay down that boogie and play that funky music till you die, Till you die, oh till you die Hey wait a minute Now first it wasn't easy changin' rock & roll and minds And things were getting shaky, I thought I'd have to leave it behind But now its so much better (its so much better), I'm funking out in every way But I'll never lose that feelin' (no I won't) of how I learned my lesson that day When they were dancin' and singin' and movin' to the groovin' And just when it hit me somebody turned around and shouted Play that funky music white boy Play that funky music right Play that funky music white boy Lay down that boogie and play that funky music till you die, Till you die, oh till you die ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:02:55 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Joni Epiphanies Mine was less Epiphany than one of those quietish Christmases where there's not a lot of money around, so you're not expecting much. It was after Clouds and before Ladies of the Canyon and it was summertime (Hey, I thought you said Christmas? Never mind, figure of speech. Move on.) That makes it 1969 according to the album release dates. That makes me 16 at the time. My family had moved from small-town Ontario to big-city Toronto (not really. Burbs. So what.) A friend of mine was visiting from the old home town. She mentioned Joni and how good she was. Being Canadian and afflicted with the then-prevalent (but not so much now) attitude that anything Canadian was inferior and somehow sucked, I was reluctant to take her word for it, and figured I'd probably hate it, and it would be too country or something, but nonetheless sprung for Clouds at the local cheapy department store (Zellers, or K-mart, or one of those. I think it cost me $3.99, which, in those days, was probably quite a few babysitting hours' worth of money.) The things that happen when you're expecting not much at all. From the opening notes of "Tin Angel", this was the voice (the singing voice and the poet's voice) I had been waiting for. Bonus - there was another record I could buy and not have to wait, since I didn't have and had never heard Song to a Seagull either. Double bonus - when Ladies of the Canyon came out, my older sister bought it, but I kind of took it over and played it all the time. Mysteriously it ended up in my record collection when we all grew up and moved away from home. Mugsie, if you're wondering what happened to your LOTC album, wonder no more. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:09:05 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Anti-Americanism NJC > Lori, you were saying you took exception to the WSJ article equating > being anti-war with being anti-American. It didn't say that. Sarah, I am getting older and my memory is beginning to slip, but I don't recall writing anything about a WSJ article ... Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:12:10 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Just War NJC >> BTW, why do we often hear of 'lapsed catholics' but almost never >> 'lapsed anglicans' or >> 'lapsed anythingelses'? > Hmmm? Good question. I guess that is just a term we use for > ourselves? I've always enjoyed comedian Kate Clinton's term for herself: "recovering Catholic." : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:15:28 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord Great jazz composers? Please don't forget George Russell, as represented on THE JAZZ WORKSHOP (RCA VICTOR) and NEW YORK, NEW YORK (DECCA). He also contributed significantly to Hal McKusick's JAZZ WORKSHOP (RCA VICTOR) and CROSS SECTION SAXES (DECCA) as well as THE TEDDY CHARLES TENTET (ATLANTIC.) His "best known" (now there's a laugh!) works are "Stratusphunk" and "Ezz-thetic." Saving the best for last: his masterwork, "All About Rosie" is on MODERN JAZZ CONCERT (COLUMBIA). IMO, this is the single greatest orchestral setting of the jazz language brought to maturity by Bird & Dizzy. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:24:42 -0500 From: vince Subject: Apology Should have been marked NJC and I apologize for fucking up, I am really sorry, really sorry. vince wrote: > Why I am a personality mis-fit within the JMDL and will surely get > voted of the island: > etc. et etc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:38:58 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Play that Weird Minor Chord I didn't mean for my list to be all inclusive. I guess I was thinking of composers that may have had a particular influence on Joni (I seem to recall reading her refer specifically to Monk and Miles; and she collaborated extensively with Wayne, and Herbie for that matter). All I really wanted to say was that Wayne Shorter has been Joni's solid side-man for twenty five years. Perhaps I should have changed the subject to "Wayne Shorter". Dan Olson wrote: "I would add to your list other great jazz composers: Thelonious Monk, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, and especially, Wayne Shorter, ..." At 10:15 PM 1/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Great jazz composers? Please don't forget George Russell, as represented >on THE JAZZ WORKSHOP (RCA VICTOR) and NEW YORK, NEW YORK (DECCA). >He also contributed significantly to Hal McKusick's JAZZ WORKSHOP (RCA >VICTOR) and CROSS SECTION SAXES (DECCA) as well as THE TEDDY CHARLES >TENTET (ATLANTIC.) His "best known" (now there's a laugh!) works are >"Stratusphunk" and "Ezz-thetic." > >Saving the best for last: his masterwork, "All About Rosie" is on MODERN >JAZZ CONCERT (COLUMBIA). IMO, this is the single greatest orchestral >setting of the jazz language brought to maturity by Bird & Dizzy. > > DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:52:14 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Antiwar groups NJC, PC Kakki wrote, of ANSWER: > It just seemed ironic that the CIA would be in league with Marxists Ironic, perhaps. But, to me, not particularly surprising. In fact I can't imagine a collusion between any branch of the U.S. government and another country, party, or group that would surprise me in the least. and of Capitalism: > Guess I just see it as the lesser of the evils. To me one system > represents slavery, stagnation and deprivation while I see more > opportunity for freedom, growth and prosperity in the other. And I often perceive the Capitalist system as one that pretends to be so moral and fair but takes absolute - if indirect - advantage of child/slave labor in other countries, just to name one example. > One system demands that everyone think the same and defer to a state- > run, one party ideaology. IMO, the party now in power in the United States may not (yet) be able to demand, but it would sure as hell prefer that we defer to its "wisdom" ... and shall we discuss how they continue to attempt to blur the line between church and state? (Has anyone noticed the recent new commercial from NARAL (http://www.naral.org/cfa/index.html)? There is a reason for this.) > The other system offers more opportunity for everyone, regardless of > their beliefs or idealogy, to contribute and participate. More opportunity ... yes, I guess I would agree. Otoh, others might not. (See the pending cases against the University of Michigan's affirmative action policies, or visit http://www.bamn.com) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:53:24 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Fw: Peace NJC hello all, with all this talk about the possibility of war and today being dr. martin luther king's holiday, i thought i would share something that one of our listers, sharon buffington , sent. boy! i miss that man. take care gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon L. Buffington" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 5:30 PM Subject: Peace > Dear Friends and Family: > > Today I am reminded once again of how precious life is. I am thinking > of words spoken long ago by one of my hero's. > > "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot > drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence > multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending > spiral of destruction....The chain reaction of evil -- hate begetting > hate, wars producing more wars -- must be broken, or we shall be plunged > into the dark abyss of annihilation." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. > (1929-1968) > > Love and Peace....Sharon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:55:17 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Re: Joni EpiphaniesNJC Quoting Catherine McKay : nonetheless > sprung for Clouds at the local cheapy department store > (Zellers, or K-mart, or one of those. I think it cost > me $3.99, which, in those days, was probably quite a > few babysitting hours' worth of money.) Catherine, Growing up in Burlington, Ontario- not too too far from the burbs of Toronto, my hunch is that your record store of choice may have been Towers Dept. Store??!! That was the closest for me, and I still remember when albums were $3.17 CDN of course! and then jumped to $3.21. LOL! Best, Stephen in Vancouver NP: Gabin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:04:13 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: The Times, They Are Not Changin' (NJC, PC) From The Washington Post, Wednesday, January 15, 2003; 7:00 AM: "Indications are that the administration will come out today or Thursday in support of white students opposing the University of Michigan's affirmative action plan, even as he tries to emphasize his commitment to providing opportunity to all. The stand comes on the heels of Bush's decision to renominate Mississippian Charles Pickering to the federal appellate court just hours after the new Congress was sworn in last Tuesday." Entire article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55743-2003Jan14.html Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:07:51 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Joni's TNT Tribute Show: Free Don't buy it on ebay. Get it in Stereo, free. Write to me off list and send me a blank VHS tape and cut out those who would profit from Joni's work. (And the work of Sweet Honey & the Rock, & Wynonna's work, and shawn colvin's work, etc. etc.) Better yet, include a blank cassette and get Simon's audience recording of the whole thing! It puts you right *IN* the room. Lama PS, I just received blank CD-Rs from the UAE for JoniFest 2002, vol 1 - 8. Thanks to Les for mastering this and to John for being my branch. Rockin' on a Sunday afternoon. Reelin'. Couldn't get away too soon. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #45 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)