From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #44 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, January 20 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 044 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Deniability NJC PC ["mike pritchard" ] Betty Ford and Joni Mitchell [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: Betty Ford and Joni Mitchell NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Need help identifying JONI show [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #38 -- CD sales [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Brei sings? NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Brei sings? NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Brei sings? NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Joni blurb ["chuty001" ] Rolling Stones Live from MSG last night NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] RE: Rolling Stones Live from MSG last night NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Brei sings? NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Brei sings? NJC [Mags N Brei ] Re: Brei sings? NJC [Mags N Brei ] Re: Joni blurb ["Arlene T." ] Re: Anti-war in SF [NJC] [Randy Remote ] Re: Rolling Stones Live from MSG last night NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Deniability NJC PC [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Iraq and Time - NJC - PC [vince ] ISO JONI MITCHELL artwork for BBC-TV October 1970 (NOT with James Taylor) [CDTraderJohn@aol.c] Re: mlk NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Deniability NJC PC ["Kate Bennett" ] ABC poll NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) [FMYFL@aol.com] epiphanies ["courtandspark@earthlink.net" ] Re: Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #38 -- CD sales [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) ["Scott and Jody" ] Fwd: Re: Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) [Susan Guzzi ] Today's Library Links: January 20 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] jan 20!!!!!! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Dirges, Paprika colors and other tidbits. [johnirving Subject: Re: Deniability NJC PC >>During the last Gulf War, the British journalist Robert Fisk declined to be part of the reporting pool in the Middle East, which was being controlled in every way by the American military (where to stay, where to go, what to look at, which tanks to get rides on etc - and of course the journalists loved it, because it made them feel like soldiers). Fisk decided to wander off to check out some of the things they were being told - wanting to see them for himself. He was "caught" and told to re-join the pool, and when he did, the people who rounded on him the most were the other journalists! Said he was "risking spoiling things for everyone else." So in this case even the journalists were accepting that the notion of truth was secondary to whether they got "the story" i.e. whether they got a version of events from a source who would be considered reliable (the military) by their news organizations. Whether it was true or not, could be left to the Fisks of this world to explore, but AFTER the war please, so as to not screw things up for the network correspondents. And then of course when journalists like Fisk do investigate events after the fact, they're the only ones to reach their conclusions, and so are not believed because of that - but they're the only ones to say these things because they're the only ones who went looking for the truth, rather than just accepting "the story" that was dished out to everyone else. Sarah<< Hi Sarah, A clarification and a (friendly) warning. My paper is not (only) about deniability. It is called 'Economical with the Truth? How language is the first casualty in the British governments' propaganda war in Northern Ireland', and the title is self-explanatory. I have it as a Word document if you want a copy. As to the warning, I see that above you mention Robert Fisk, who is, along with John Pilger, the journalist I most respect and believe. Unfortunately, mention of Fisk's name on this list is likely to cause extreme reactions among some people here. In the aftermath of September 11 there was a long, sometimes bitter debate about 'anti-American' feelings, comments and journalism. Fisk was one of the most savaged in this regard and although I find his writing wonderfully clear and definitely 'against the grain', I am in the minority here. Your post (above) perhaps explains why. If you intend to refer to Fisk as a 'good guy', put your helmet on NOW. mike in bcn NP Disposable Heroes of Hiphopcrisy - (If ever I would stop thinking about) Music and Politics ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:34:35 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Betty Ford and Joni Mitchell What in hell does a fundraiser at the Betty Ford Center have to do with Joni Mitchell? Was Joni there? Did she perform? Is she a supporter of the Betty Ford Center? Is she in treatment? What's the deal? I don't get it. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:46:46 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Betty Ford and Joni Mitchell NJC In a message dated 1/19/2003 8:35:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, Aerchak@aol.com writes: > What in hell does a fundraiser at the Betty Ford Center have to do with Joni > > Mitchell? > Was Joni there? Did she perform? Is she a supporter of the Betty Ford > Center? Is she in treatment? What's the deal? I don't get it. > Maybe it's in reference to the line: Mama & Betty Ford says "Find Yourself a charity"! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:56:39 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Need help identifying JONI show In a message dated 1/19/2003 1:01:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, CDTraderJohn@aol.com writes: > Can anyone help me identify this Joni show I recently received. Hi John- What you have is the audio taken from a BBC-TV broadcast. The Title of the show was "Joni Mitchell Sings Joni Mitchell". Date: October 9, 1970 Location: BBC2; London England The correct setlist is: 1. Chelsea Morning 2. Hunter 3. The Gallery 4. Cactus Tree 5. My Old Man 6. For Free 7. Woodstock 8. All I Want 9. California 10. Big Yellow Taxi 11. Both Sides Now Some trivia: - - This is also available on video and is known as the "Pink Dress Concert" - - Hunter was a song she wrote for Blue but to this date has never released - - My Old Man & All I Want were works in progress at the time of this performance and feature some alternate lyrics. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:07:52 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #38 -- CD sales In a message dated 1/19/2003 2:59:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, BRYAN8847@aol.com writes: > No matter how > controversial or odd, T'log would be selling well, if it were only on the > radio. > Well, I don't totally buy this. On the one hand there have been some great stories about unplayed & unheralded records that posted monumental sales without radio's help. "O Brother Where Art Thou" soundtrack was STILL one of the top 20 sellers THIS YEAR, and radio (especially country stations) pretty much turned their back on it. Like I've said here before, I don't see that T'log has a very big market anyway. And I don't think radio did much for Norah Jones either (initially)- the quality of the CD, and the word of mouth caused it's rapid rise in sales. Radio & the media were late to the game. I agree that radio is a HUGE problem. Clear Communications & narrow-casting has eliminated any kind of varieties in radio programming. Hopefully with the disastrous year 2002 was in the music business for the majors, there'll be some changes made, other than just firing people and trading CEO's. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:24:48 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Brei sings? NJC I had to do a double take when I saw this new release! Especially when I saw the picture - it looks SO MUCH like our Brei! LOL (This guy actually looks like every guy in SC except me) :~) I suppose eventually we'll ALL have CD's for sale on CD Baby... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:31:03 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Brei sings? NJC Oops, forgot the link: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/briangoss ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:35:25 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Brei sings? NJC In a message dated 1/19/03 9:26:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > Especially when I saw the picture - it looks SO MUCH like our Brei! LOL > > If that's Brian, it looks like he ate Mags :~) Jimmy, in chilly Florida ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 10:15:23 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Joni blurb http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/JoniMojo.jpg Joni blurb in the new Mojo. Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 10:22:41 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Rolling Stones Live from MSG last night NJC Did anyone besides me happen to catch the Stones on HBO last night. What did you think? Keith looked like he was really enjoying himself, and what about Sheryl Crow in those leather chaps....Gentleman...start your engines?? Did anyone go to MSG and if so, how was Ryan Adams? What did he play? Also (this is selfish) but if anyone has an extra Atlantic City ticket to see Springsteen March 7th, PLEASE email me privately =) I'll gladly reimburse you. rosie in a frigid NJ Better ask questions before you shoot Deceit and betrayal's bitter fruit It's hard to swallow, come time to pay. That taste on your tongue don't easily slip away Let Kingdom come. I'm gonna find my way Through this lonesome day ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 10:35:35 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Rolling Stones Live from MSG last night NJC > Did anyone besides me happen to catch the Stones on HBO last night. What did > you think? Keith looked like he was really enjoying himself, and what about > Sheryl Crow in those leather chaps....Gentleman...start your engines?? I saw about the first 45 minutes. They sound great and they seem to have an eternal youthfulness about them. They definately deserve to be called the greatest rock and roll band on earth. Victor in Ashelanta - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:20:01 EST From: ZUMABM@aol.com Subject: hello newbie looking for some joni shows hello and good morning am trying to get a few joni shows on cd? awhile back on the tape tree #7 i have this on cass and now i would love to have it on cd. plus a few other shows . any help would be great. thanks -you brian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:39:56 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Rolling Stones Live from MSG last night NJC In a message dated 1/19/03 10:37:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > I saw about the first 45 minutes. They sound great and they seem to have > an eternal youthfulness about them. They definately deserve to be called > the greatest rock and roll band on earth. > Hi Victor! They are extremely talented, energetic, dark and decadent, and high above their audience in a strange lofty sort of way. I know it's only Rock n Roll, but I like it. PS: I loved the pic of you on the rocks btw, thank you! rosie Better ask questions before you shoot Deceit and betrayal's bitter fruit It's hard to swallow, come time to pay. That taste on your tongue don't easily slip away Let Kingdom come. I'm gonna find my way Through this lonesome day ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:42:46 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: Anti-war in SF [NJC] The newspapers are reporting 'Tens of thousands in SF'. I would guestimate more like 100,000 or more, just based on being here for SFPride which has been about 300,000-ish the past few years. It was note quite as big as Pride, but almost and it was huge, much bigger than 'tens of thousands'. Joan Baez spoke and sang 4 songs, ending with Christmas in Washington. Bonnie Raitt did one song accompanying herself on guitar. Many many speakers, including Martin Sheen who roused the crowd immensely. And of course Representative Barbara Lee. It was a very high-energy, and COMMITTED feeling with as diverse a crowd as I've ever seen. Articles in today's SF Chronicle: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/01/19/MN196663.DTL Richard - ------- > >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:26:53 -0800 >From: Randy Remote >Subject: Anti-war in SF > >Witnesses of the anti-war protest in San Francisco estimate that >300,000-400,000 people are in attendance. Happening right now, >There is live coverage from KPFA (Real Audio) at: >http://www.kmud.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:35:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Brei sings? NJC In a message dated 1/19/2003 9:36:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: > If that's Brian, it looks like he ate Mags :~) > I wouldn't touch this line with a ten-foot pole! ;~) Hopefully Mags' blushing will help to heat their chilly home... Bob NP: That "other Bruce": "Born In The USA", Columbia SC 12/09/02 (Whoo-Hoo!!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:04:05 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Brei sings? NJC honey methinks you need your bifocals checked LOL..I really dont see the similarity at all... I think the guy in the link looks more like Paz in fact. ;-P sis SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote:Oops, forgot the link: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/briangoss You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:05:23 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Brei sings? NJC JIMMY really!!! and on the open list too LOL you crack me right up sweetie Moogs.. FMYFL@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 1/19/03 9:26:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > Especially when I saw the picture - it looks SO MUCH like our Brei! LOL > > If that's Brian, it looks like he ate Mags :~) Jimmy, in chilly Florida You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:21:29 -0500 From: "Arlene T." Subject: Re: Joni blurb The full content of the article that the blurb was lifted from was, I thought, printed somewhere on the JM site, but now I can't find it. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "chuty001" To: Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 10:15 AM Subject: Joni blurb : http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/JoniMojo.jpg : : Joni blurb in the new Mojo. : : Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:32:56 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Anti-war in SF [NJC] Richard Goldman wrote: > The newspapers are reporting 'Tens of thousands in SF'. > I would guestimate more like 100,000 or more, just based on being > here for SFPride which has been about 300,000-ish the past few years. > It was note quite as big as Pride, but almost and it was huge, much > bigger than 'tens of thousands'. > Joan Baez spoke and sang 4 songs, ending with Christmas in > Washington. Bonnie Raitt did one song accompanying herself on > guitar. Many many speakers, including Martin Sheen who roused the > crowd immensely. And of course Representative Barbara Lee. It was a > very high-energy, and COMMITTED feeling with as diverse a crowd as > I've ever seen. > Articles in today's SF Chronicle: > http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/01/19/MN196663.DTL Thanks for the report, Richard. I wish I could have been there. Here's the start of the SF Chronicle front page headline "Nation rallies for peace" From San Francisco to Washington, D.C., from Paris to Tokyo, hundreds of thousands of demonstrators took to the world's streets Saturday to protest potential military action against Iraq by the Bush administration and its allies. In Washington, where temperatures hovered in the mid-20s, as many as 500, 000 protesters rallied outside the Capitol, while in San Francisco tens of thousands of peace activists marched up Market Street from the Ferry Building to City Hall. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:39:06 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Rolling Stones Live from MSG last night NJC RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > Did anyone besides me happen to catch the Stones on HBO last night. What did > you think? I thought it was one of the best concert broadcasts I've ever seen.. Mick's voice was in excellent shape, both guitarists were playing incredibly, Watts was amazing....I was so blown away that I forgot to watch Saturday Night Live afterwards....a weekly ritual for me.... > Keith looked like he was really enjoying himself, and what about > Sheryl Crow in those leather chaps....Gentleman...start your engines?? Yowza! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 15:07:38 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Iraq and Time - NJC - PC Time magazine's lead story this week reveals that 1 out of 3 Senior U.S. Military officials question the U.S. making a pre-emptive strike against Iraq. Who would have thought such a group contained such a vast number of Marxists, Socialists, lefties, liberals, and Communists? Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:57:28 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Deniability NJC PC Mike, ok, I've got my helmet on. ;-) I DO like Robert Fisk. He's been living in the Middle East for 25 years and knows it like the back of his hand, and I trust his reporting enormously. Stress on reporting, because I'm not sure I trust his analysis much. His blind spots (as I see them) come from the fact that he loves the Arabs and Arab culture, and he hates to see them and others attack it. He's just as critical of the Arabs for the way they often screw things up for themselves. These blind spots can lead him to play with the facts when he's writing analysis pieces. But you have to know your stuff to be able to spot it, and who can be bothered to look up every reference he makes to check he's quoting accurately? As we're talking about the manipulation of facts, you might be interested in these three examples from just one of Fisk's articles of the way he has a tendency to slip and slide around (the whole article can be read at http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=362545 Fisk writes: ". . . "Izzy" Asper [owner of the Canadian National Post] has written a gutless and repulsive editorial in the Post. . . falsely accusing reporters of "lazy, sloppy or stupid" journalism and being "biased or anti-Semitic". These vile slanders are familiar to any reporter trying to do his work on the ground in the Middle East. They are made even more revolting by inaccuracies." "Mr Asper, for example, claims that my colleague Phil Reeves compared the Israeli killings in Jenin earlier this year - which included a goodly few war crimes (the crushing to death of a man in a wheelchair, for example) - to the "killing fields of Pol Pot". Now Mr Reeves has never mentioned Pol Pot. But Mr Asper wrongly claims that he did." My objection: 1. Phil Reeves DID compare Jenin to "the killing fields" in his article, which you can read at http://www.marxists.de/middleast/jenin/jenin1604.htm. It's true that he didn't actually use the words "Pol Pot". Asper inserted those words into the article (which was actually the reporting of a speech he made, not an editorial as Fisk claims) probably to make sure everyone in his audience understood what the "killing fields" reference was about. And Phil Reeves almost certainly DID mean it that way. Furthermore, Reeves had to write another article backtracking on his reporting on Jenin, when it turned out not to have been the slaughter the Palestinians claimed it was. Fisk does not mention that. But I think any journalist who really wanted to tell the whole story would have included that information (or would have left the Phil Reeves reference out entirely). But the reference fits Fisk's thesis, and so he leaves it in, but only in part, and therefore inaccurate. Fisk writes: "It gets worse. Mr Asper, whose "lazy, sloppy or stupid" allegations against journalists in reality apply to himself, states. . . that "in 1917, Britain and the League of Nations declared, with world approval, that a Jewish state would be established in Palestine". Now hold on a moment. The Balfour Declaration of 1917 did not say that a Jewish state would be established. It said that the British government would "view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people." The British refused to use the words "Jewish state". My objection: 2. It's true that the Balfour Declaration does not use the words "Jewish state". But it's very clear, if you read the history of the declaration, that this is what the British meant. There was no Palestinian state in that area and Jewish people had bought a lot of the land there and already had a significant presence. It was assumed by everyone that, once the Jews became the majority population, there would be a Jewish state. Representatives of Jews living in Palestine, at their first post-Balfour meeting, voted in favour of calling the aim of the Zionist movement the establishment of a "medina ivrit" (Jewish state), not a "national home". The British government knew what the Zionists wanted, and the so-called Balfour Declaration -- actually just a letter from the foreign secretary to the head of the British Zionist Federation -- was typical British fudge, sending a signal to the Zionists that they could have a "state" while at the same time trying to appease the Arabs by using the word "homeland", although the Arabs, like everyone else, knew where that was headed. (It was a typical British example of "deniability" in fact.) Anyway, my point here is that Robert Fisk knows this background very well, but pretends not to, to make his point. Fisk writes: "This may not matter much to lazy writers like Mr Aspen [sic]. But when it comes to the League of Nations being involved, we really are into mythology. The League of Nations was created after the First World War - had it existed in 1917, it might have stopped the whole war - and Mr Asper is simply wrong (or, as he might have put it, "lazy, sloppy or stupid") to suggest it existed in 1917. My objection: 3. This is a cheap point. The so-called Mandate for Palestine (the purpose of which was to put into effect the Balfour Declaration) was formalized by 52 governments at the League of Nations in July 1922. So Asper, summarizing all this in a speech, was out by 5 years. So what? Fisk knows what he meant. But he wants to make him look stupid, so he pretends not to. These three points are typical of Fisk's writing when he's analysing a situation, in my opinion. He gets some impressive looking punches in, but when you look closely, you see they're often based on the careful omission of anything that would contradict his argument. However, as a straightforward reporter (meaning observer-in-the-field), Fisk is brilliant. He knows how to swing his gaze away from the angle everyone else is taking; he knows how to look for what is NOT being said, rather than what is; and he doesn't trust ANY government (not Arab, not Israeli, not American or British). I think he's honest, notwithstanding what I said about his playing with facts when he's analysing. I think he just gets so pissed off, he stops being as careful as when he's actually out reporting. Mike, I'd love to see your paper if you don't mind sending it. Sarah At 11:11 AM +0100 01/19/2003, mike pritchard wrote: >A clarification and a (friendly) warning. My paper is not (only) >about deniability. It is called 'Economical with the Truth? How >language is the first casualty in the British governments' >propaganda war in Northern Ireland', and the title is >self-explanatory. I have it as a Word document if you want a copy. > >As to the warning, I see that above you mention Robert Fisk, who is, >along with John Pilger, the journalist I most respect and believe. >Unfortunately, mention of Fisk's name on this list is likely to >cause extreme reactions among some people here. In the aftermath of >September 11 there was a long, sometimes bitter debate about >'anti-American' feelings, comments and journalism. Fisk was one of >the most savaged in this regard and although I find his writing >wonderfully clear and definitely 'against the grain', I am in the >minority here. Your post (above) perhaps explains why. If you intend >to refer to Fisk as a 'good guy', put your helmet on NOW. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 15:09:34 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Iraq and Time - NJC - PC keep track of how long it takes to get posts saying: 1) all Clinton's fault 2) we need a new Joe McCarthy to rid the Defense Department of the pinkos 3) its all Clinton's fault 4) it is the cumulated effect of antiAmerican defeatist Marxist antiwar people, who caused us to "lose" Vietnam and crushed the spirit of the military 5) its all Bill Clinton's fault 6) what do they know, the shrub knows better anyway 7) its all Hillary Clinton's fault Jerry Notaro wrote: >Time magazine's lead story this week reveals that 1 out of 3 Senior U.S. >Military officials question the U.S. making a pre-emptive strike against >Iraq. Who would have thought such a group contained such a vast number >of Marxists, Socialists, lefties, liberals, and Communists? > >Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 15:32:42 EST From: CDTraderJohn@aol.com Subject: ISO JONI MITCHELL artwork for BBC-TV October 1970 (NOT with James Taylor) With thanks to Bob, I've been able to identify the following Joni Mitchell show and wanted to share this information with others, as I was unable to locate it elsewhere. I am, however, still searching for ARTWORK. If anyone has it and would be kind enough to share it with me, I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks, John in Massachusetts Here's Bob's response below: Hi John- What you have is the audio taken from a BBC-TV broadcast. The Title of the show was "Joni Mitchell Sings Joni Mitchell". Date: October 9, 1970 Location: BBC2; London England The correct setlist is: 1. Chelsea Morning 2. Hunter 3. The Gallery 4. Cactus Tree 5. My Old Man 6. For Free 7. Woodstock 8. All I Want 9. California 10. Big Yellow Taxi 11. Both Sides Now Some trivia: - - This is also available on video and is known as the "Pink Dress Concert" - - Hunter was a song she wrote for Blue but to this date has never released - - My Old Man & All I Want were works in progress at the time of this performance and feature some alternate lyrics. Bob In a message dated 1/18/03 3:14:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, CDTraderJohn@aol.com writes: > Can anyone please help me identify this Joni show I recently received. It > runs about 48:45 and was identified only as BBC (sounds like 1969-1970 or > 71). Also, if anyone has a corrected setlist, venue and/or ARTWORK (!), > I'd > sure appreciate it. It's a great set, whatever it is. > > Thanks, > John in Massachusetts > > 1) Chelsea Morning (begins abruptly) > 2) The Good Samaritan > 3) The Gallery > 4) Being Free (?) > 5) My Old Man > 6) For Free > 7) Woodstock > 8) All I Really Want (?) > 9) California > 10) Big Yellow Taxi > 11) Both Sides Now > > > Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 15:23:57 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: mlk NJC susan wrote> But none that stretches the breadth that a King or Ghandi did. Where HAVE all the flowers gone?< i am feeling overwhelming grateful for these two men these days...for their beautiful ideas, words & for showing us just how much can be accomplished that is alternative to the status quo of violence...truly we must evolve to a better way of solving conflict...truly we have the intelligence & creativity to do so...as far as i can remember that has also been one of my core beliefs & now more than ever, it is my guiding light through these dark times... btw, i printed that quote (posted again below) & put it on a (small) sign to carry in the peace march yesterday (or as jeff calls it the peace shuffle as there were so many people packed together that at first we were hardly moving...lol)... some friends lovingly made fun of my sign as indeed you had to get right up close to read it as opposed to many of the other signs people carried with only a few big words which you could see from far away.... however at the end of the march a woman (who i recognized as our state congresswoman hannah beth jackson) came up to me & introduced herself & asked if she could use the sing for her speech which followed the march...i was thrilled to have it used that way & although we couldn't stay for the speech i heard from many who stayed that it was absolutely riveting & that the mlk quote was a key point...sweet (apparently our mayor was in dc as part of a meeting of mayors protesting the war...our city is one of 40 that has passed a resolution in opposition to this war...) it was very encouraging to see how many folks showed up for this day...our main downtown street was closed to traffic & for blocks as far as you could see in both directions the street was packed with marchers...they were hoping to keep the march within a few blocks but there were far too many there to contain it to that... here is the martin luther king jr quote again: "Sooner or later all the people of the world will have to discover a way to live together in peace...if this is to be achieved, man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love." Martin Luther King, Jr, Nobel Prize Acceptance Speech ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 15:24:07 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Deniability NJC PC >>And then of course when journalists like Fisk do investigate events after the fact, they're the only ones to reach their conclusions, and so are not believed because of that - but they're the only ones to say these things because they're the only ones who went looking for the truth, rather than just accepting "the story" that was dished out to everyone else.<< thanks for this info sarah it certainly helps explain (to me at any rate) why i feel so frustrated by so much of what i read/hear/see about in the media... btw, you may have mentioned this but if so i missed it...did you say you were once a journalist in the gulf war? which media did you work for & are any of your pieces online? i'd be interested in reading some of what you reported... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 15:35:50 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: ABC poll NJC this is easy, no sign ups involved, just click & vote... Do you believe there is a case for war against Iraq? http://www.abc.net.au/news/poll1/vote/ ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 18:49:54 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) Tampa Bay Buccaneers are going to their first superbowl ever!!! Final score: Tampa Bay 27 Philadelphia 10 This is the year of the Bucs! Victor, heading to the studio after watching the NFC championship game - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:04:24 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) In a message dated 1/19/2003 6:51:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > Tampa Bay Buccaneers are going to their first superbowl ever!!! > Wouldn't it be great if Joni was the QB in the Super Bowl? Let her take a couple of hits from those defenders, and then she'll be talking about how GREAT the music business is! LOL! Does Miyake design football uniforms? Sorry, I've been in a goofy mood all day... Bob NP: Tori Amos, "Pancake" from the OUTSTANDING 'Scarlet's Walk'...WOW I'm so glad she decided to stop making records that suck. I've been waiting for this one for a LONG time! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:09:55 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) In a message dated 1/19/03 6:51:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > Tampa Bay Buccaneers are going to their first superbowl ever!!! > > All right Victor! I never post about sports (except for figure skating, bowling, synchronized swimming, and various other water sports), but I have to say GO BUCS !!!! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:37:57 -0500 From: "courtandspark@earthlink.net" Subject: epiphanies First of all, let me write that I am now in a new place. Physically, emotionally, spiritually, etc. Places I should write. My computer is lost somewhere in that postal world. Remember-I want my MTV. Well, I want my Outlook Express. Epiphanies--With Joni I suppose one could have one of these often, each different. With the words and music of the albums I have been taken many places, introspective treks throughout the realms of my mind and soul. Yet, at those times I was awakened to things that I had already known, in some way or another, she made some of them clearer, solidified others. DED, as I wrote at the time, was the album that opened my mind to avenues, thoughts that I had not traveled, known before. It was then, as my eyes welled up, that I realized that I was no better than anyone else and that my ideas of my own superiority were not only dangerous but pitiful and made me even less than those that I had labeled as of a defective nature, standing, importance than my own. It was 'Good Friends' that will forevermore, in my mind, be a tune that reminds me of that incomparable one from Ohio. It was there that I realized that I not only did not have all the answers, I didn't have most of them. It was there that I knew that I had not worked hard enough for others, had not done enough to make the world a better place. It was there that I finally knew that Joni Mitchell is a genius, in more ways than this mind can explain in words. It was there that it came to me that I had not been generous, not forgiving enough, not a man that I was proud to be. Despite what is said about this album, I found it to be one that told me to try harder, to examine further, and to give others more than the benefit of the doubt. mack - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:44:48 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) In a message dated 1/19/03 7:05:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > Wouldn't it be great if Joni was the QB in the Super Bowl? Let her take a > couple of hits from those defenders, and then she'll be talking about how > GREAT the music business is! LOL! Does Miyake design football uniforms? > > Yes Miyake has come out with the new fall football line of uniforms. He calls it "Cleats and Pleats" :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:46:27 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #38 -- CD sales Yes....a CD can sell without radio play. But my point was if T'log were on the radio it would be selling, even though it's so "different." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:50:58 -0500 From: "Scott and Jody" Subject: Re: Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) If Oakland wins tonight, it could be a very interesting superbowl. The present coach for Tampa was Oakland's coach last year...hmmmm.... jody wondering why there isn't a superbowl dedicated to synchronized swimmers :~) Hi Jimmy:~) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Johnson" To: Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 9:49 PM Subject: Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) > Tampa Bay Buccaneers are going to their first superbowl ever!!! > > Final score: Tampa Bay 27 Philadelphia 10 > > This is the year of the Bucs! > > Victor, heading to the studio after watching the NFC championship game > > > > > > > > > --- Victor Johnson > --- waytoblu@mindspring.com > Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson > > Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 > Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 18:51:20 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Fwd: Re: Whoooohoooo!!!(njc) Oh Jimmy, I just love it when you talk butch! BUT this game cost me about 600 freakin' BUCS! It knocked me out of first in the football pool. Come on Oakland, I still have a shot at 2nd or 3rd! Only mumbling Peace right now, Susan P.S. Sorry Cindy, flirting with Jimmy now, since Smurph has abandon me and our love child! All right Victor! I never post about sports (except for figure skating, bowling, synchronized swimming, and various other water sports), but I have to say GO BUCS !!!! Jimmy Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 02:15:15 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 20 On January 20 the following items were published: 1974: "Court and Spark" - Melody Maker (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=182 2000: "At guitar-maker's shop, the sweet sound of success" - AP Worldstream (Mention) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=884 2002: "Joni gives me a warm glow in this chilly land" - Daily Mail (Opinion) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=974 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 04:20:05 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: jan 20!!!!!! njc hey... alison! HpPybIrThDaY you terribly naughty woman! how i missed you when i didn't go to jonifest last year! i just need my alison fix every year, child. take care, utah's pride and joy! love, wally ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:55:20 -0600 From: johnirving Subject: Dirges, Paprika colors and other tidbits. Back for more in the 'respectfully we agree to disagree" catagory... I find it a tad humorous and ironic that long standing Joni fans would criticize Tlog for being a dirge. As it's been perceptively mentioned recently, that's been the public's complaint for 30 plus years running. Where we hear beauty, most americans hear that depressing woman shlogging along with weary voice overwhelming their ears with words. -I would have expected this crowd would be immune to the idea Joni as a slug... being so familiar with her tempo. I wonder how you guys can listen to the old stuff not wishing she'd pick up a little... I don't recall my snapping fingers to Song to a Seagull. For the vast majority of America, Joni selecting 22 songs from her catalogue and coming up with something dirgeful is like shooting ducks in a barrel. She could close her eyes and 19 of the 22 wouldn't 'swing.' Hell, she never 'swung' anyway. The woman is too quirky to rock in the manner of others. When she has... let's see, hmmmmmm... Lead Balloon, Ray Dad's Cadillac, and the much, much loved Dancing Clown. -Joni, swing? As a matter of fact, where the pace has picked up in the last few years, it's largely out of collaboration with other musicians to give the thing some tempo, or it's been a cover. If anything Tlog is a triumph of Joni finally getting it right and actually learning to. Every jazz number here pops and sparkles as her internal rhythms and voice instrument have finally made the complete journey into the realm of Jazz. Imagine what we would have in our hands if Charlie Mingus handed those six melodies to her last year as opposed to handing them to the youthful, experimenting singer back when. With the present musicianship, and her refined skills.... WOOOOOW. Can you imagine pork pie hat in present voice? Or the delicious play of rhythmic pause and melodic drops she'd throw into Dry Cleaners now? As to the hits and misses on Tlog, we're certainly into personal tastes here. Some of you love the present Hejira. The best I can bring myself to is 'it's ok.' One thing I wanted the songs to do was have enough difference in arrangement from the originals that the songs take on new colors, new meanings and different emotional, visual spins. That's what is so compelling about Case of You and BSN on the last cd. There's enough coloration and difference of approach that the songs come alive in a whole new context. The maturity of the woman colors the song and Mendoza's arrangements allow that to happen. Perhaps I should underline that last part... By comparison to those two, on Tlog Hejira simply rolls in as a cover. None of her post Hejira Hejira covers shine anywhere near the sparkle of the original recording. Those that come close are when she delivers it as straight to the original as possible. There's an insular sound to the original recording. It's that rolling figure she's strumming with the chord changes that is the heart of it. Snowflakes falling in a surreal landscape of self reflection and movement. -All the salsa dressings and other add ons since then work against the heart of this lanquid melody. It defies all catagory of music and is nothing BUT Joni. The new recording offers nothing new to the emotional perspective of the original. It's simply a cover. And where many of you went gaga over Hejira and I didn't, many of you dislike Just Like this Train and I did like it. I love it, in fact. I don't find the emotional colors are any different from the original. Just heightened. In the original, the song is of a woman weary from the ordeal of relationships who manages to 'let her hair down' and enjoy a moment of simple pleasures found on a long train ride. (Home? Up to Canada for retreat?) The 'ease' of the moment is conveyed more by the freely dispersed chords of the song than it is by Joni's voice. This song was definitely a favorite for , "Ooooohh, listen to the way those chords come in!!! -So relaxed and easy. On CandS, Joni is too busy setting up the story to let her hair down vocally. On tlog, not only has the music found it's ease, but Joni has as well. The new slur of the melodic line upwards on "just like this train" says, "Look folks, I'm enjoying myself here." And Brian Blade and company, especially Brian Blade gives it just the right polish of upbeat, easy listening ease. This song is like a french apperitif. I don't think it's fussy at all. It is Joni's version of champagne ease, all gilded and plush and with lightness of heart. That's what I hear anyway. As for Sex Kills, I tepidly like the original. I always found it lacking for a more personal context to convey the kind of emotional statement the song was trying for. To put the song into the context of someone being "angry", the words are too impersonal for the character of the singer to be upfront. I mean geez, the most important health threat to mankind in a thousand years and it's reduced to a brief "and sex kills?" I've watched too many friends die horrible deaths to see the subject come up only on the clip end of a line. In the new setting on Tlog, I enjoy the song more because it ISN'T an individual angry, upfront and defiant. The lumbering bombast of the new version has the feeling of an old Cecil B. Demille (sp.) film. I get the feeling and image that behind the particulars of the voice that is all complaints, there is the backdrop of a wave of 'illness' in many forms sweeping across the plains of the nation like a marching army decending on the peoples of western civillization. Like the fall of Rome. And when she ends with the long "Sex Keeeeeeeeeeeilllls" that panorama converges forward and meets with her voice in an extended wail for all the suffering that is. It conveys a more respectful feeling of hurt, and sense loss for the fate of Wally and so many, many good people. The sex kills part is no longer a glib clip to my ears. -so I have to respectfully diagree with you on this one Bobbo. (And that's not easy for me, as you are lord god among the masses.) I think this effort, as startlingly clunky as using Demille might be, lends itself to a more effective deliverance of the song. Many of the songs on the second disk fail in comparison to the first because they aren't removed enough from their original context. -Not because they are slow. You want slow, go back and listen to Fiddle and the Drum. That's slow. Btw, on the Don Juan's cover, didn't we read somewhere that Joni's Art Director on that album picked the colors and not her? I will answer that with a yes. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #44 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)