From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #42 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, January 18 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 042 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Greatest Hits [] NJC Re Article on American-Saudi relations Aerchaks response to Lori ["Lu] SJC SLOUCHING ["Lucy Hone" ] re: My Epiphany [cul heath ] Re: Just War NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: NJC truth [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] NJC Re: Travelogue / Sharon / Wisconsin / Cesspool / Sofa / Epiphany / Moon [SCJoniGuy@ao] Re: ACOY Covers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Gillian Anderson njc [colin ] Re: The True Bush Agenda In Iraq NJC PC [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: mlk NJC [Susan Guzzi ] Re: joni's guitar goes electric [Jkp1953@aol.com] Re: Hits, et al [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Article on American-Saudi relations NJC PC [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Just war (NJC) [Susan Guzzi ] SLOUCHING ..boy do I feel stupid ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Hits, et al [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #18 regarding Michael's comments on cost of T'logue [Aerchak@a] vince the movie critic (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] RT in Paris NJC [dsk ] Anti-Americanism NJC [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: vince the movie critic (njc) [vince ] NJC death to the white meat haters [vince ] Marta Sebestyen NJC ["Mark Connely" ] Re: Just War NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] NY Times letters dispute Rockwell 'review' ["PAUL PETERSON" ] Re: thud (njc) ["hell" ] Ex-First Ladies Fete Betty Ford Center [relayer211@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:04:54 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Greatest Hits Prolonging this "Greatest Hits" thread a bit more... For artists whose specific albums I am not too familiar with but whose musical oeuvre and reputation are known through magazines, word-of-mouth, interview, I buy their "greatest hits" albums to sample their artistry. And sometimes I buy their earlier stuff if their "Greatest Hits" and "Best of" compilations are particularly good. Like, before I got immersed with Manhattan Transfer's vocalese albums, their "Best of" compilation was particularly good (though there are 4 current "best ofs" in the market), so I started collecting all their more than 20 albums. But there compilations that are not that good, like Everything But The Girl's "best of". You wonder why they ever put up with this compilation since the songs chosen were not those that demonstrate their creativity (later I found out the duo was against this compilation... they even came up with a statement to fans not to support this album that was made without consulting them). There are compilations that are so haphazardly done. As a big fan of Ella Fitzgerald and Miles Davis, there are probably 30 different versions of "best of" albums depending on the record label. Charlotte Church's latest "best of" called PRELUDE was an embarrassment. Like millions of people who first heard her in VOICE OF AN ANGEL, I thought she was phenomenal. After three albums, PRELUDE came out and it seems intent on showcasing songs not suited to her style/age. Joseph in Manila PS. I was in a record store last night and saw a Greatest Hits of Joan Sutherland and Monserrat Caballe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:49:44 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: NJC Re Article on American-Saudi relations Aerchaks response to Lori I have just read your answer to Lori on digest No 40 and I think you have encapsulated the WHY this is all happening better than any other of the articles I have engaged with on the list. It is succinct, stays away from any form of jingoist fervour and just sticks to the available facts and articles you have obviously read, marked and inwardly digested.... This is a nasty twisty time of Spin and machination, with own agendas on all sides and no-one seems to see that this is not actually about 11th September at all...... it has been coming for years. Maybe the superpowers need to extend their research into alternative ways to fuel their power plants and vehicles rather than base it all on oil... I loved the Bond analagy...... excellent... My own private cinematic view of it can be gleaned from any movie where the baddies embrace (think of any of the godfather type films) and, as the camera pans round the embracing baddies each one is looking to his henchmen and winking....... Thank you for your clarity........ but I remain opposed to any war and stick by my feelings that aid, not bombs should have gone to Afghanistan. Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:20:09 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: SJC SLOUCHING I have not yet bought TLOG, nor actually listenened to it but I will buy it blind if only for the reference to SLOUCHING TOWARDS BETHLEHEM as this is taken from W B YEATS poem "The SECOND COMING" I have always felt that Joni read and admired Yeats as there are some wonderful lyric moments in her songs that remind me of some of his work..... and the work of TS Elliot too. I would not be the slightest bit surprised if James Joyce was not a big influence either... For those of you who are not familiar with The Second Coming I am including it below with all acknowledgements to copyright and all the legal stuff that may end up with some sort of "hey that's mine" law suit....So Publlishers be reminded here that if I get anyone interested in Yeats by copying this poem, and they buy some of your books I won't come after you for commission.....OK and you won't sue the JMDL either..... Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot see the falconer; Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. Surely some revelation is at hand; Surely the Second Coming is at hand: The Scond Coming! Hardly are those words out When a vast image our of Spiritus Mundi Troubles my sight: somewhere in the dands of the desert A shape with lion body and the head of a man, A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun, Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds. The darkness drops again; but now I know That twenty centuries of stony sleep Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born? Written in 1921 is has such relevance today........ Anyway I will buy TLOG today and get back to you on it.I expect you will all say "but of course we knew" but maybe you have not read the poem in recent years and perhaps it will just be a pleasant thing regardless........ have a happy day Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 02:39:20 -0800 From: cul heath Subject: re: My Epiphany hey there fellow traveler :) cul sez: "to remedy the seperation you speak of, I suggest the following concoction..." Daily Dose: - - All I want (4 times per day for 1 week) - - Cary (4 times every windy day for 1 week) - - Chinese Cafe (every other day in the morning) - - Sponge Bob (min twice a week) - - Do something really cool for someone else (every other day for a week) - - Be your self( every day) luv cul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:50:30 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Just War NJC >>Bree wrote: I feel I must defend the CHURCH. The Catholic church is like any other club..organization.. in that that have tenets..rules to follow. When you join anything one usually agrees with the rules... if not, get out. The Catholic church on morals and faith will not change with the whims of man.<< With the greatest respect Bree, the Catholic church is not like a club or an organisation. If, for example, the Augusta Golf Club want to keep out women or black people, or whoever, they have that right, as long as it doesn't break any laws. If the restaurant Chez Mike refuses entry to people who contravene its dress codes, hey, no problem. When Ashara bans illegal drugs in her house she has all the right in the world. But Ashara's house, a restaurant and a golf club can not be compared in any way with the power and influence exercised by the Catholic church. We don't *join* the Catholic (or any other) church; we are born into it and baptised, christened, confirmed, educated and indoctrinated all before we are old enough to make decisions for ourselves. There is no question of refusing to join if you don't like the rules. By the time one is old enough to disagree with the rules one has spent many years under its influence (for better or worse). That many people do choose to leave the church when they become thinking adults shows their discontent. BTW, why do we often hear of 'lapsed catholics' but almost never 'lapsed anglicans' or 'lapsed anythingelses'? mike NP Donna Summer. She works hard for the money. (Thinking of you Mack, why in Wisconsin?) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:12:48 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC truth So let's see...no Kangaroo Jack, no midnight bowling...damn that shoots down my plans for Saturday night! :~) (TRUTH be told, I'm going to see Dave Alvin at The Handlebar with my Italian friends) Bob NP: Joni, "Love" from T'log (this one is gorgeous, but then again how could it NOT be?) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:15:19 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Travelogue / Sharon / Wisconsin / Cesspool / Sofa / Epiphany / Moon In a message dated 1/18/2003 2:07:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, spf321@aspi.net writes: > the first side was called "I Came To The Cesspool" > and side 2 (vinyl, in my dreams) was entitled "Out Of The Cesspool And > Down To The Seaside." LOL! What a great piece to read this morning! Thanks for burning the midnight oil (oops, shouldn't mention THAT word) to write it. Enjoyable on every level. You Dream Flat Vinyl! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:18:09 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: ACOY Covers In a message dated 1/18/2003 2:46:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, jpalis@kssp.upd.edu.ph writes: > I like Brian Kennedy's version best. It was unpretentious. There's surely a lot of good ones out there. The most effective ones are like you say, quiet, emotional, understated. Tori's is so powerful you get the feeling that she can't finish it! And I may be the only one who dig's Sloan's rocked-up version of it. Bob NP: Joni, "God Must Be A Boogie Man" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:35:35 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Gillian Anderson njc she has twice been on Grahma Norton. Veyr English sounding and a lovely woman. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 05:58:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: The True Bush Agenda In Iraq NJC PC That's so funny - the interview was in support of his new book and I can't remember for the life of me where I read it. oy. One thing I did get wrong is - David said he wrote "Axis of Hate", not axis of terror. Boy my memory is going. Also in the interview he said his wife's email did not get him in trouble but that he left because he was an economic oriented speechwriter, not a war-time one and the truth lies somewhere in between... Jenny Lori Fye wrote:> Even his "axis of evil" comment - which you could almost > believe Bush might've coined - wasn't his own; it was David Frum's. Jenny replied: > I just read an interview with Bush's ex-speechwriter this week - I > can't remember where. He actually wrote "axis of terror" and there > was debate over whether North Korea should be included or not. And > by the time the speech left Bush's lips it had been changed to Axis > of EVIL (and included N. Korea) - the idea was to make the phrase > more biblical sounding, since Bush has had success w7th biblical > rhetoric in the past . Interesting ... I wonder if the change was really to make it sound more biblical, or to make it sound more like something Reagan would've said? (Remember the "evil empire"?) Also interesting is that David Frum - who is the speechwriter in question - was just on the Today Show this week. David did not dispute Matt Lauer's suggestion that David coined "axis of evil." And, when asked, David did not deny that his wife (Danielle Crittenden Frum) more or less got him into trouble by writing an email to one of her friends in which she exclaimed how proud she was of her husband. The email was of course forwarded all over the place, and the subsequent embarrassment to the Administration apparently contributed to David's departure, although David claims to have already handed in his resignation prior to the speech. I'm not disputing the interview you read though, Jenny. I have no doubt there is more than one version of the story, even from David himself -- who, btw, I used to work for directly. He left the Manhattan Institute (where we both worked at its DC satellite office) just after Bush was elected, to become one of Bush's three speechwriters. David was supposed to be writing speeches about economic policy ... but ... well, he is rather verbose, to say the least. Lori, who never should have worked for the Manhattan Institute (http://www.manhattan-institute.org) and the Thomas B. Fordham Foundation (http://www.edexcellence.net) - it was a package deal - but who is glad she did for the opportunity to experience how the "other side" thinks ... although god knows those 14 months drove me damn near CRAZY!! Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:39:48 -0500 From: "Arlene T." Subject: The Statue & Travelogue (was: I'm a bitch about political content in JMDL postings) Oh lord, I wouldn't want Joni to do a different version of "Ethiopia". That song as it stands is so gloriously moving, I'd hate to hear it any other way. Arlene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: ; Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 12:08 AM : > And, if you had to choose the songs that were going to be on that : > album, done in that manner, would you not have chosen some other : > songs. : : Hmm ... how about "Ethiopia"? ; ) : ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:42:39 -0500 From: "Arlene T." Subject: Re: Helen Thomas njc Helen Thomas is SUCH a thorn in Fleischer's side, man. When I watch the press conferences on TV you can almost see Fleischer's flesh crawl when he calls on her. You go, Helen! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "vince" To: "Joni" Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 12:22 AM Subject: Helen Thomas njc : Helen Thomas, the most senior member of the White House press corps, : and Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer on Monday over the issue of : Iraq. Check out the dialogue: : : January 6, 2003 - 12:35 P.M. EST : : MR. FLEISCHER: Good afternoon and happy New Year to everybody. The : President began his day with an intelligence briefing, followed by an : FBI briefing. Then he had a series of policy briefings. And this : afternoon, the President will look forward to a Cabinet meeting where : the President will discuss with members of his Cabinet his agenda for : the year. The President is going to focus on economic growth, making : America a more compassionate country, and providing for the security of : our nation abroad and on the homefront. : : And with that, I'm more than happy to take your questions. Helen. : : HELEN THOMAS: At the earlier briefing, Ari, you said that the President : deplored the taking of innocent lives. Does that apply to all innocent : lives in the world? And I have a follow-up. : : MR. FLEISCHER: I refer specifically to a horrible terrorist attack on : Tel Aviv that killed scores and wounded hundreds. And the President, as : he said in his statement yesterday, deplores in the strongest terms the : taking of those lives and the wounding of those people, innocents in : Israel. : : MS. THOMAS: My follow-up is, why does he want to drop bombs on innocent : Iraqis? : : MR. FLEISCHER: Helen, the question is how to protect Americans, and our : allies and friends -- : : MS. THOMAS: They're not attacking you. : : MR. FLEISCHER: -- from a country -- : : MS. THOMAS: Have they laid the glove on you or on the United States, the : Iraqis, in 11 years? : : MR. FLEISCHER: I guess you have forgotten about the Americans who were : killed in the first Gulf War as a result of Saddam Hussein's aggression : then. : : MS. THOMAS: Is this revenge, 11 years of revenge? : : MR. FLEISCHER: Helen, I think you know very well that the President's : position is that he wants to avert war, and that the President has asked : the United Nations to go into Iraq to help with the purpose of averting : war. : : MS. THOMAS: Would the President attack innocent Iraqi lives? : : MR. FLEISCHER: The President wants to make certain that he can defend : our country, defend our interests, defend the region, and make certain : that American lives are not lost. : : MS. THOMAS: And he thinks they are a threat to us? : : MR. FLEISCHER: There is no question that the President thinks that Iraq : is a threat to the United States. : : MS. THOMAS: The Iraqi people? : : MR. FLEISCHER: The Iraqi people are represented by their government. If : there was regime change, the Iraqi -- : : MS. THOMAS: So they will be vulnerable? : : MR. FLEISCHER: Actually, the President has made it very clear that he : has not dispute with the people of Iraq. That's why the American policy : remains a policy of regime change. There is no question the people of : Iraq -- : : MS. THOMAS: That's a decision for them to make, isn't it? It's their : country. : : MR. FLEISCHER: Helen, if you think that the people of Iraq are in a : position to dictate who their dictator is, I don't think that has been : what history has shown. : : MS. THOMAS: I think many countries don't have -- people don't have the : decision -- including us. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:05:46 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: mlk NJC Thanks Kate, for these simple but true words. Especially this time of year as we celebrate Dr. King's birthday, we see how invisible love is in the world today. I see how invisible leaders like Dr. King are. Oh some can name names here and there. But none that stretches the breadth that a King or Ghandi did. Where HAVE all the flowers gone? What fools we humanists must be! I urge all to find a little of Dr. King in their hearts and put it out there this week. Spread just a little around in some way - who knows it may catch fire in the same ways as hate - aggression and violence have ..... as I have repeated many times before ...... You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm NOT the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world can live as one. (John Lennon) It would be nice to hear memories good and bad about the times of Dr. King. I was pretty surprised it went almost unmentioned last year, as Cindy and I and maybe one other lister were the only ones to note the day and mentioned our surprise at this to each other. Help keep the dream alive. Peace, Susan "... though his dreams have lost some grandeur coming true, there'll be new dreams, maybe better dreams and plenty, before the last revolving year is through. - --- Kate wrote: Sooner or later all the people of the world will have to discover a way to > live together in peaceif this is to be achieved, man must evolve for all > human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. > The foundation of such a method is love. > Martin Luther King, Jr, Nobel Prize Acceptance Speech Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:14:24 EST From: Jkp1953@aol.com Subject: Re: joni's guitar goes electric while acoustic will never go out of style, i loved joni's guitar on Taming the Tiger. there isn't another soul on earth who would approach going electric quite like that. LOVE 'only joy in town' from that work. i will listen to it again and again and again...............i have to admit doing the same with DJRD.........hit the back button three times on the way to my place of gainful employment. t'log comments; i was ecstatic that joni included slouching. she creates some works that are just thematic giants. i find t'log's woodstock hauntingly beautiful. and maybe the way it's meant to be heard ( dirge-like ) now. flat tires and be cool really stand out as the upbeats, .........finger snappin'. it appears we all agree that new material from joni would be heavenly. i miss her guitar quite severely. my wish is that some really wealthy person with good taste and an appreciation for joni's work would back a new recording just for the sake of the art and never mind the $$$$. of course that would happen maybe on another planet. joni herself did mention perhaps finding a way to sell new stuff on the net, without lining the company coffers. i think it's very cool that i've never witnessed difference of opinion handled so kindly. but this lengthy political stuff's gotta go where it belongs. and i won't say where. kindly, janet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:31:55 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Hits, et al Bob (SC) M wrote: Matter of fact, I haven't gotten around to picking up Hits or Misses myself. > > : No sense in it, except for UFG which I already have on another cd anyway. > : > : Bob > Interesting - once upon a time, you suggested to me (when I was considering completing my collection) that having Hits was probably worth it for that reason, and also for UFG (which I did not have in any form until you later sent a live version to me on one of the CD's you prepared for me - remember ?). Anyway, I did end up bying Hits and Misses. A few (oops -several) thoughts: 1. I'm glad Joni did not call it "Greatist Hits", aren't you ? (If she called it that, she would have had to have switched album covers, IMHO, to reinforce the element of farce - that would transcend satire, right ?) 2. I will be sending a care package to Paris for my daughter, who has been getting a "JM song of the day - lyrics" e-mail from me for the past month. The care package will definitely include "Hits". Of course, she has been exposed to (inflicted with ?) a lot of JM music over the years, but has steadfastly pushed it away or evaded it. Now, though, I think she is ready for JM - she never appreciated the lyrics before. We'll see. 3. Seems she also ordered Bob Dylan's greatest hits for herself. That will be an interesting side by side comparison, I think. 4. I think that Joni could fill up at least a half-dozen albums of Misses. The consistently high level of her work is nearly unique, IMO. I mean, if an album has 2 A+ songs, 3 A's, 3 A-'s and 2 B+'s, doesn't the album get an A+ as an overall grade, on a curve ? For example, JT (one of my personal favorites, especially as a performer and especially when he sticks close to his best work, which he usually does in concert) has seldom put out an album with that kind of consistency. Joni has done it many times - never a real clunker. 5. I am also sending along Judy Collins's Wildflowers (which includes BSN and MFM, as well as covers of 3 Leonard Cohen songs and a Jacques Brel and 3 of Judy's own songs - a fine record, for those of you who do not have it). I sense that Leah (who loved the BSN lyrics) was disappointed when she heard a downloaded JM version of BSN. I think Wildflowers is a special record, and am betting that she loves it. 6. I have sent Leah the lyrics to all of STAS and scattered others (mostly from JM's early work). I will also send her STAS and one other JM record - which one would you-all recommend ? (I am thinking it will have to be from C&S or earlier - we still need to set the hook.) She will have at least until May to absorb this, and perhaps until August if her grant is extended. Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:45:46 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Article on American-Saudi relations NJC PC I didn't have links to the two articles I posted yesterday. The WSJ one was emailed to me, and the Saudi one was already on my computer. Apologies to anyone this annoyed. Sarah From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Article on American-Saudi relations NJC PC 3rd request- PLEASE Sarah, do not paste whole articles...post the link instead, thanks ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:00:04 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Just war (NJC) Hi Lucy! Have I told you yet how happy I am that you are here? Well I am! I have really enjoyed your posts and love your writing in general. And here I go trying to throw the lightness on these things and laughing it all away! Lulu wrote: > George Bush, Saddam Hussein, Tony Blair, Putin, you name any of the > heads of state in this planet, they are only human and only men... Well we can't all be fortunate enough to be women. just as > powerful women are only women. Luuuu you just blew my previous point! Oh yes there was Margaret Thatcher. I stand corrected. Lucy wrote: > I think it was Plato who said (and forgive me if I am wrong) that the very > people who seek public office are exactly the people who should not have it. I don't care who said it, its true and unfortnate. So that said I would like to announce my campaign to run for the office of -oops! Guess that kind of bursts my own bubble! Lucy: ... Reading the > amazing viewpoints on the list has made me think about it so much more > deeply than I have ever thought about world conflict before. > > And however much the points are argued, however much the cases are cogently > put, do any of us truly feel that this is a JUST WAR? > I too must add how pleased I am with the tone of this debate. Kudos to both side for keeping it clean and friendly. And thanks for all the efforts and research. BUT I haven't changed my mind one iota! LOL! > I apologise for not quoting endlessly from everyone's mails but I am not > equal to the task of arguing point for point. this mail is my gut feel. As it is for me Lucy. It still all somes down to my gut and my humanist beliefs. Lucy shared: > If night should come sooner than we thought it might > remember that I loved you. > Not, I grant, a love that sacrifices truth or light > but still a love that leant the world a heart > on some warm secret hillside in the night. > Thanks for sharing this, it is simply beautiful. > We all of us have so much humanity to lose. > Lucy Exactly. Thanks again. And now back to our regularly scheduled discussion ...... Is it "notches or not just liberation doll?" Speaking of beating a dead horse.LOL! Peace To All! Susan Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:25:40 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: SLOUCHING ..boy do I feel stupid UMMM hello all. Well had I ever seen to cover of TLOG (playing as I type) Iwould not have told you all what you already knew... so far feel that TLOG is an amazing enterprise on Joni's part and I feel I am sitting in a cinema with the lights down waiting for a show...... If I had some huge velvet curtains with gold tassels I would sit in front of them and wait for the programme to start... What a stage show it could make with pyrotechnics, film backdrops and a huge orchestra...I would go to see it..... I saw the Eagles on the Hotel California tour in London (royal Albert Hall I think) and when they played Wasted Time I was wondering how the hell they would do the Reprise of it....... It was a brilliant show and then when they got to the Reprise the voilins came in and I thought "they have taped it" and then the curtains went up and this HUGE orchestra was there.. it think it may have been the London Symphony orchestra or the Philharmonic but either way it blew my head away and I get goose bumps when I remember it....... That is what TLOG feels like to me.. and if I had not been idly fiddling about on the computer at Christmas, very fed up and lonely, looking for Joni tunings and tabs I would not have found the list....... So thank whoever for that happy accident and I would not be listening to TLOG now. Dog and kids want feeding see you all later. Lucy Now I know there has been some discussion of her voice ...well it is Joni... she has THAT voice and that is fine by me... I liked Both Sides Now so TLOG was going to be OK.... I like buying things with absolutely no idea what they will be like but based on previous happines ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:34:08 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hits, et al In a message dated 1/18/2003 10:31:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bobsart48 writes: > Interesting - once upon a time, you suggested to me (when I was considering > completing my collection) that having Hits was probably worth it for that > reason, and also for UFG (which I did not have in any form until you later > sent a live version to me on one of the CD's you prepared for me - remember > ?). I'm sure I'll pick up Hits & Misses one of these days. I'll throw in a bid every now & again on Ebay, but I always get sniped. I ain't sweating it, as the studio version of UFG is on the "Alternate Blue" that I have, and I have enough live versions too! :~) > > 1. I'm glad Joni did not call it "Greatist Hits", aren't you ? Yes, because it would be SO embarrassing to have that misspelled word on the cover! ;~) It would also indicate that she had LOTS of hits to choose from, and just picked the 'greatest' ones for this collection. As we know, the reality is that she only had 1 major hit in the US ("Help Me") & a couple of minor ones. She DID have good exposure on FM radio in the 70's, which was more free-form, so many of her minor hits are known, and of course there are the songs she wrote that were hits for others. Of course, the lack of real hits hasn't stopped bazillions of artists from issuing Greatest Hits collections...I remember getting "Trini Lopez' greatest hits" free with a 6-pack of Pepsi. It was a 45!! :~) > 4. I think that Joni could fill up at least a half-dozen albums of > Misses. But of course, by definition! "Misses" would indicate a great song that was not a commercial success as a single, right? Joni has a TON of those - she really only has a small handful of songs that are out-and-out turkeys, certainly a smaller percentage than anyone I can think of with her volume of work. > > 6. I have sent Leah the lyrics to all of STAS and scattered others > (mostly from JM's early work). I will also send her STAS and one other JM > record - which one would you-all recommend ? (I am thinking it will have to > be from C&S or earlier - we still need to set the hook.) She will have at > least until May to absorb this, and perhaps until August if her grant is > extended. C&S gets my vote. Great hooks, great ear appeal, and lyrically stunning. Bob NP: Los Lobos, "What In The World" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:17:45 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #18 regarding Michael's comments on cost of T'logue I agree with Michael. Actually, I was thinking just last evening that as much as Joni hates the music industry, her label certainly has a great deal of respect for her. It must have cost a lot of money to make Travelogue and I doubt if it is going to be much of a money maker, sales wise. Say what you will, but I think Joni has a lot of power with the record folks. Why else would they support such a project? Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:51:30 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: vince the movie critic (njc) OK, well I guess we know what movie won't make Vince's top ten list for the year :-) Based on the trailer, this one looked like a real bomb. So, just how DO you know all those 90 dance tunes, Vince? (AND the steps to go with them!) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:05:18 -0500 From: dsk Subject: RT in Paris NJC It's so rare that the amazing Richard Thompson is performing in Paris that I thought I'd pass this along for anyone there (Laurent, Bobsart's daughter) who may be interested. He is one person that needs to be seen live to be truly appreciated. (Really! one man sounding like three guitarists! How can that be?) And it's in a 200-seat theater. That would be great! In my extremely biased opinion, I'd call that a not-to-be-missed experience. Date: 17 February 2003 Paris Les Etoiles 01 53 19 98 88 http://www.anythingmatters.com Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:29:14 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Anti-Americanism NJC Lori, you were saying you took exception to the WSJ article equating being anti-war with being anti-American. It didn't say that. It was trying to get at the roots of anti-Americanism, and why some Americans seem to support it unwittingly. I think it's hard for Americans to understand how much they are disliked around the world. Not just in the Middle East - Europe too. I don't think going to war in Iraq, or not going, will make any difference to this because it runs so deep. To me, it just seems like any other form of racism - irrational and unjustifiable. Interviews with an al-Qaeda member published in today's newspapers in Canada reveal that the al-Qaeda name for Americans is "White Meat". Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:34:39 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: vince the movie critic (njc) anne@sandstrom.com wrote: >OK, well I guess we know what movie won't make Vince's >top ten list for the year :-) Based on the trailer, >this one looked like a real bomb. > If we were to drop copies of Kangaroo Jack on Iran, the world would rise up and smite us for human rights abuses. However, after seeing the movie, the Iranian people would undoubtedly reject any further contact with Western civilization. > >So, just how DO you know all those 90 dance tunes, >Vince? (AND the steps to go with them!) > Aerobics classes, actually. After one has done aerobics to Get Ready For This (by 2 Unlimited), etc., the same songs 3-5 times a week, 52 weeks a year, year in and year out, these songs are so engraved in the brain and the muscle memory is so locked in... I keep suggesting the other instructors play some music recorded in the current millennium but we always end up back with the same 90s Dance Hits as if we haven't heard Rhythm of a Dance (by Snap!) enough times. I actually got Darrin's Dance Moves (advertised a lot on cable tv) so I could incorporate a few new moves and music in my routines. Am working on my home study courses to get my aerobics instructor certificate renewed, and trying to work some rap into it; got edited Eminem cds and it actually may work if I can get the mix right. Vince NPIMH: grapevine kick-ball-chain-snap pause 1-2-3 count hustle lock 4 count spin turn... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:38:29 -0500 From: vince Subject: NJC death to the white meat haters sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > > Interviews with an al-Qaeda member published in today's newspapers in > Canada reveal that the al-Qaeda name for Americans is "White Meat". Grounds enough to kill every one of them, those fucking turban heads, imagine them calling us names, they are nothing but a bunch of fucking sand niggers anyway, I say we kill them all for insulting us. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:32:35 -0800 From: "Mark Connely" Subject: Marta Sebestyen NJC Marta Sebestyen RRRRROCKSSS! "Hindi Lullabye" is one one the best peices of music ever recorded. Her band, MUZIKAS, is sublime! mmmmmmmm....... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:50:10 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Just War NJC > >>Bree wrote: I feel I must defend the CHURCH. The Catholic church is >like >any other club..organization.. in that that have tenets..rules to follow. >When you join anything one usually agrees with the rules... if not, get >out. >The Catholic church on morals and faith will not change with the whims of >man.<< >With the greatest respect Bree, the Catholic church is not like a club or >an >organisation. If, for example, the Augusta Golf Club want to keep out women >or >black people, or whoever, they have that right, as long as it doesn't break >any laws. BTW, why do we often hear of 'lapsed catholics' but almost never >'lapsed anglicans' or >'lapsed anythingelses'? Hmmm? Good question. I guess that is just a term we use for ourselves? (Being born into it..it is so ingrained...and even if we don't attend it is still very much a part of us. Just a temporary hiatus?) Yes..as always, you make some very good points. You are right about the being born into it..I know I was. But I still say the Catholic church the fundamentals will never change; Sanctity of life thus no to abortion..euthanasia. Holy Matrimony..between a man and a woman..no to gay marriages...no to women priests. (reasoning: All the apostles were male) So if one can not abide by these rules/laws ...then one should leave. The Church is not going to change with the times..suddenly become liberal..humanist..it ain't going to happen. SO really that was my point. Thanks for your input! AND yeah, Mack..what in the heck are you doing in Wisconsin of all places!? ;-) Bree....brrrrrrr >mike >NP Donna Summer. She works hard for the money. (Thinking of you Mack, why >in >Wisconsin?) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:26:20 -0500 From: "PAUL PETERSON" Subject: NY Times letters dispute Rockwell 'review' This Sunday's Times publishes 4 letters in the Arts and Leisure section disputing the Rockwell piece. The fact that they published four means they got an awful lot of mail about it. Here's the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/19/arts/19MAIL.html oh hell, here are the letters: (NY Times requires registration bull****. Let'em sue!) January 19, 2003 Joni Mitchell; Simon Russell Beale; 'Oz' head of Her TimeTo the Editor: Re "Joni Mitchell's Long and Restless Journey" by John Rockwell [Jan. 5]: Like Mr. Rockwell, I was taken aback at first by Ms. Mitchell's new album, "Travelogue." Her voice is indeed ragged, and the orchestral arrangements are admittedly slick. On repeated listening, however, the experience is transformed: the raggedness becomes musical, raspy, accompaniment to a completely brilliant and as-yet-unheard kind of mega-hip muzak. The work is ahead of its time and difficult to take in quickly; I will not hold Mr. Rockwell to his comments five or ten years hence. LISA CUNNINGHAM Manhattan Moving On To the Editor: John Rockwell is right that Joni Mitchell shows a new side in "Travelogue," though it is a side we at least glimpsed in her album "Both Sides Now" and in her performances on Herbie Hancock's 1998 "Gershwin's World." As president of the board of Dance Theater Workshop, I also agree that the side of Ms. Mitchell that Mr. Rockwell admires is lovingly captured by John Kelly in the performance piece-homage he has performed there and at other venues. It's probably also true that "Travelogue" ultimately won't stand up against, say, "Court and Spark" or "Hejira" in the greatest-Joni-Mitchell-album-of-all-time competition. It is, after all, a revisitation of places she has taken us before, this time with full orchestral accompaniment. But I have to take issue with Mr. Rockwell's characterization of the record as "pretty terrible." I think it is pretty terrific, and the more you listen to these two CD's, the better they get. Joni Mitchell has moved on. John Rockwell doesn't like where she's gone, but I hope that he doesn't discourage too many of her other fans from joining her. MICHAEL J. CONNELLY Manhattan A Painter of Note To the Editor: I agree that Joni Mitchell's "Travelogue" poses problems for the listener, the biggest being that, lovely as the music is, there is not one song that is preferable to Ms. Mitchell's original versions. But I would strongly disagree with John Rockwell when he categorizes her paintings as "really naove." It seems to me that for the last decade or so, Ms. Mitchell's musical output has been overpraised and her painting has not been given the recognition it deserves. SANDY FERBER Rego Park, N.Y. Truly `Longtime' To the Editor: I was angered by John Rockwell's mean-spirited assessment of Joni Mitchell's "Travelogue." He calls himself a "longtime admirer," but seems to be like all the other people who were fans of the Joni Mitchell of the early 70's and then ditched her when she began to become something else. In my mind, Joni Mitchell did not change much at all: her music and lyrics continued to be personal and poetic, insightful and moving. Joni Mitchell's "imagined public" exists, and if Mr. Rockwell is no longer a fan, it is his loss. RICK KAYE Manhattan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:28:25 -0500 From: vince Subject: essential church NJC Bree Mcdonough wrote: > But I still say the Catholic church the fundamentals will never > change; Sanctity of life thus no to abortion..euthanasia. Holy > Matrimony..between a man and a woman..no to gay marriages...no to > women priests. (reasoning: All the apostles were male) So if one > can not abide by these rules/laws ...then one should leave. The > Church is not going to change with the times..suddenly become > liberal..humanist..it ain't going to happen. SO really that was my > point. None of those doctrines were a part of the early church, they developed later, much later in some cases, and have not been timeless in the Roman Church let alone in Christendom prior to the split between the west and east, what later became the Catholic (western) tradition and the eastern (Orthodox) tradition. I wouldn't consider any of those doctrines fundamental to the Roman church. They are outgrowths of other things which have become doctrine, but not fundamental to the Roman church. In a sense this is nit-picking because some of these doctrines are deep rooted in the psyche, but not fundamental to the church. And I am making an academic distinction, but it is an essential theological assertion. What would be fundamental would be the creeds, understanding of ministry, etc. The difference is, there could be woman clergy in the Roman Church and it would not change the Roman Church - ok it would be a shock to some, but it changes nothing essential to Roman Catholicism. John Paul II told the former Archbishop of Canterbury - and I got this straight from the archbishop - that women Roman priests may come with the next pope, but not with him. The primacy of the bishop of Rome is a fundamental teaching of the Roman Church - that would never change without changing the essence of Roman Catholicism. None of the encyclicals, for example, makes the point at all about male only clergy being foundational, fundamental, essential. It is the way that Roman theology considers the way it ought to be, but it is not essential to the very essence of the ministry as is the primacy of the bishop of Rome and those under the authority of the same. Teachings, doctrines, that are deep rooted are not necessarily fundamental. The development of the catholic tradition is covered in a lot of written material, Crossan, Pelikan, and Williston Walker among the best out there. Jesus did not deliver a set of doctrine or dogma to anyone. That took centuries to develop. The question remains that Bree raises - who is the church, who makes the final decisions, who should stay and who should go, etc. And I am not going to get into that area because I am not Roman Catholic and I have strong views as an evangelical catholic (i.e., a certain type of protestant) but it is not my battle and I will not get in what ends up being a very intramural argument. in which in the end I have no stake. And I realize that a lot of people have a sense of what is "Roman" and what is not and that so depends on time and place in a person's life. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:37:33 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: thud (njc) Anne wrote: > OMG! Russ actually DOES watch reruns of old golf > tournaments! (But I love him anyway.) > Yup, watching sailing has been compared to watching > paint dry. But this time around, I'm really into it! > So, to Steve D (and Michele) wasn't Oracle's win the > other night just AWESOME? I loved it when Alinghi > sailed into the hole. When you get your own private > breeze like Oracle did, it's just the best feeling in > the world! I think sailing and golf are like a lot of sports - they're no fun if you don't understand them. People say the same thing about watching cricket, but if you understand the game it becomes a lot more interesting. And having been out on the course a few times, watching the sailing close up (by close up I mean when these huge boats pass by only 20-30m away), it IS very exciting! And surprisingly noisy as well. > So, if Alinghi wins the whole thing, where would they > sail next time - Lake Geneva?? There have been rumours that they would defend the cup right here in NZ. Since they don't have anywhere at home close by, and they've got their "camp" set up here as challengers it does make some sense. Having a Kiwi skipper probably helps as well! Of course they have to win it first, and obviously I'm hoping Team NZ retains the America's cup for a record third challenge! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:48:15 -0800 (PST) From: relayer211@aol.com Subject: Ex-First Ladies Fete Betty Ford Center From: relayer - -------------------- Ex-First Ladies Fete Betty Ford Center - -------------------- By JEFF WILSON Associated Press Writer January 18, 2003, 10:03 AM EST INDIAN WELLS, Calif. -- Former first ladies Betty Ford, Rosalynn Carter, Nancy Reagan, Barbara Bush and Hillary Clinton celebrated the 20th anniversary of the Betty Ford Center for substance abuse in elegant style. "When we admitted our first patients over 20 years ago, I had no idea that the Betty Ford Center was destined to become the nation's leading treatment facility for persons addicted to alcohol and/or other drugs," said Mrs. Ford, 84. The rare gathering brought the women and about 600 others who paid up to $5,000 per dinner to benefit the nonprofit center in Rancho Mirage. "It's a real sisterhood. We love getting together," Mrs. Carter said after posing for pictures with the other first ladies Friday night. They later mingled with a small group of friends in a VIP room adjacent to a ballroom. Mrs. Bush, wearing her trademark polka-dot dress and white pearls, chatted with talk-show host Larry King, while Mrs. Reagan, in a red gown, talked with Mrs. Carter and actor Kirk Douglas. Also in attendance were former Presidents Bush and Ford. The audience erupted in wild applause as the first ladies entered the room one-by-one to strains of "God Bless America." Mrs. Ford checked herself into a treatment facility in 1978 and her candor about her drug dependence is largely credited with helping break the silence for many alcoholics and drug addicts. The center named for her has since treated more than 56,000 people for various addictions. The black-tie gala, which was set to raise $1.6 million, featured a who's-who of Hollywood, business and political heavyweights and included videotaped messages from President Bush and first lady Laura Bush. Douglas and King were joined at the festivities by other luminaries, including Merv Griffin and Republican Rep. Mary Bono. New York's Democratic Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton arrived late, and Ford Center officials said she had remained in Washington for the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee vote to name Tom Ridge as the nation's first Homeland Security Department chief. Former first lady Lady Bird Johnson, who turned 90 on Dec. 22, is still recovering from a stroke in May and was unable to attend, her spokeswoman, Betty Tilson, said Friday in Austin, Texas. "She wanted very much to be there. She loves Betty Ford very much and admires her," Tilson said. Money raised during the gala will help pay the bills of poor patients. Treatment at the 14-acre Betty Ford Center costs $16,500 for an average stay of 28 days. The center, which boasts nine buildings, dozens of medical professionals and 100 volunteers, treats nearly 160 patients at a time and has 100 beds on campus. Copyright (c) 2003, The Associated Press - -------------------- This article originally appeared at: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-first-ladies0118jan18,0,2374401.story Visit Newsday online at http://www.newsday.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #42 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)