From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #41 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, January 18 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 041 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Re: My Epiphany, sjc [courtandspark@earthlink.net] Re: The True Bush Agenda In Iraq NJC PC ["Lori Fye" ] The Statue & Travelogue (was: I'm a bitch about political content in JMDL postings) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Re: My Epiphany, sjc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Helen Thomas njc [vince ] Glaspie and Dole and good buddy Saddam njc [vince ] NJC time to invade, bomb, and destroy [vince ] Article on American-Saudi relations NJC PC ["Kate Bennett" ] Today in History: January 18 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: January 18 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Travelogue / Sharon / Wisconsin / Cesspool / Sofa / Epiphany / Moon [Sco] Re: ACOY Covers [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:40:38 -0600 (CST) From: courtandspark@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Re: My Epiphany, sjc Hello all. I have missed you more than I can possibly write here. Just watched a biography on the Bee Gees. Saddened by the loss of Maurice more than I could express. Personal sadness has me in its clutches as well. Far from home with no one to turn to, personally; no one to touch. The only solace I could think of, the only place to which I could run was my home here. Here, I know you understand. I know that, here, you will hold me tight and not let me go, not let me down, not when I need you most. Have read all the posts, of late, with interest. And no, as someone wrote again, they don't understand. They don't understand Joni, they don't understand us, and they don't understand the basic truths of what makes life, love, and the need to feel what we do so integral to our survival. If I could, on this night, I would crawl inside all of you and there I know it would be okay, for here I don't know that. I am afraid and fear is something that has not visited me in such a long, long time that I don't know what to do. I will let your arms hold me tight on this cold, lonely, sad Wisconsin night. mack - -------Original Message------- From: Stephen Toogood Sent: 01/17/03 06:32 PM To: Joni List , Jim L'Hommedieu Subject: Re: My Epiphany, sjc > > Yep thats right. Sometimes I wish I had more years behind me so I could have experienced Joni first hand or even seen her play live! That's whats so great about the list though I can share all your experiences. Stephen Toogood NP: Wedding Bell Blues ~ Laura Nyro "God goes up the cimney Like childhood Santa Claus The good slaves love the good book A rebel loves a cause" Jim L'Hommedieu wrote:- > Your first Joni album was 'hits'? Did I read this > correctly? That's amazing to me because it was so > recent. > > Your whole history with Joni, then, is completely > within the life of the JMDL! I was an isolated fan > for decades before Les finally got off his duff. > Funny. > > Lama > > > > --- Stephen Toogood wrote: > > We I got HITS first of all after being intrigued by > > her art work and the > > fact she had so many albums and I'd never heard of > > her! > > I refused to believe that 'Harry's House...' was the > > only good track on > > THOSL so I went back to it and bit by bit it got > > through to me and since > > then the album has only ever sounded divine. After > > that I eventually got > > every Joni album! > > > > So I guess it was THOSL that made me realise that > > her music grows and is > > timeless. > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:32:37 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: The True Bush Agenda In Iraq NJC PC > Even his "axis of evil" comment - which you could almost > believe Bush might've coined - wasn't his own; it was David Frum's. Jenny replied: > I just read an interview with Bush's ex-speechwriter this week - I > can't remember where. He actually wrote "axis of terror" and there > was debate over whether North Korea should be included or not. And > by the time the speech left Bush's lips it had been changed to Axis > of EVIL (and included N. Korea) - the idea was to make the phrase > more biblical sounding, since Bush has had success w7th biblical > rhetoric in the past . Interesting ... I wonder if the change was really to make it sound more biblical, or to make it sound more like something Reagan would've said? (Remember the "evil empire"?) Also interesting is that David Frum - who is the speechwriter in question - was just on the Today Show this week. David did not dispute Matt Lauer's suggestion that David coined "axis of evil." And, when asked, David did not deny that his wife (Danielle Crittenden Frum) more or less got him into trouble by writing an email to one of her friends in which she exclaimed how proud she was of her husband. The email was of course forwarded all over the place, and the subsequent embarrassment to the Administration apparently contributed to David's departure, although David claims to have already handed in his resignation prior to the speech. I'm not disputing the interview you read though, Jenny. I have no doubt there is more than one version of the story, even from David himself -- who, btw, I used to work for directly. He left the Manhattan Institute (where we both worked at its DC satellite office) just after Bush was elected, to become one of Bush's three speechwriters. David was supposed to be writing speeches about economic policy ... but ... well, he is rather verbose, to say the least. Lori, who never should have worked for the Manhattan Institute (http://www.manhattan-institute.org) and the Thomas B. Fordham Foundation (http://www.edexcellence.net) - it was a package deal - but who is glad she did for the opportunity to experience how the "other side" thinks ... although god knows those 14 months drove me damn near CRAZY!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 20:37:20 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Just war (NJC) Lucy wrote, of children: > the pressure they feel to take part in drug taking and alcohol abuse > and the spiral or degradation that can lead from those things... I can > rattle on for hours if required. I wouldn't mind one bit if you would "rattle on" about such things. I'm very interested to hear from someone who is working in those trenches. > It should have been Aid to Afghanistan, not bombs.......... Yes, absolutely. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:08:25 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: The Statue & Travelogue (was: I'm a bitch about political content in JMDL postings) > I'm serious. Whatever happened to the statue? As far as I know, Andrea, the statue fund exists and is still accepting contributions - Sarah? That's correct, yes? Any updates? > And I don't want to annoy you, but do YOU really like Travelogue? I do. Like probably everyone else here, I would prefer some new material from Joni, but that doesn't diminish my enjoyment of Travelogue. > But, if you had to choose, would you really prefer them to the > original versions? I like "Sex Kills" a whole lot better this time around. Although I have to admit that it wasn't a favorite of mine on TI, and still isn't. I know Joni had something important to say with that song, but it just never "did it" for me. In any case, I do like the new version better. As for the rest of the cuts: for me, the new arrangements stand on their own. I try to avoid comparing them to the original recordings. I enjoy them for what they are. They sound "fresh" to me. > And, if you had to choose the songs that were going to be on that > album, done in that manner, would you not have chosen some other > songs. Hmm ... how about "Ethiopia"? ; ) Have we done a poll about this yet? What songs would you have chosen? (Everyone, please feel free to participate.) Regarding the comment I made to you about being so tired of the T'log discussion that I could puke ... hey, that was for your eyes only! : ) But now that it's out there, yes, I've skipped most of the posts about T'log because: a) I quickly tired of all the complaints about Joni's voice and the product itself, b) I quickly became bored (annoyed, really) with all the "technical" analysis of the production and musicianship - that sort of thing usually strikes me as SO arrogant and pretentious, and c) I stand by my heartfelt opinion that I'm just happy that Joni chooses (chose?) to continue to share her music with us, whatever form it takes. Hurling aside, here I am resurrecting the T'log discussion yet again, and I'm sure I've just raised a few eyebrows if not hackles ... so ... Fire away! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:14:28 -0500 From: vince Subject: NJC truth Various truths: I shall tell you the truth, and you can rely on this fact above all things posted in the JMDL tonight (except the fact that I am going to get a T-shirt that says "Bush = War Criminal" because I think he is dangerously close to that in part, and partly to piss off the apologists for this administration): 1) Truth One: if your child or grandchild asks to see the movie Kangaroo Jack do not take said child. Maybe send the child because the movie does not traumatize children but it surely traumatizes adults. If you can take the premise of a kangaroo wearing a playas jacket being pursued by various assorted Brooklyn and Australian hit squads, you are a better person than I. The only good thing about going to the movie was that I had one grandson with me and we ran into my other grandson, and two of my grandsons' cousins. However, this was about the most dreadful movie that I have ever seen. 2) Truth Two: when you have taught a child it is fun to sit through a movie twice, it costs an arm and a leg to avoid sitting through Kangaroo Jack twice. We ended up doing midnight bowling which is not cheap. However, if you are pissed off about seeing Kangaroo Jack once and having to pay for midnight bowling to avoid seeing Kangaroo Jack twice, it is possible to bowl very good scores. 3) Truth Three: If you ever do midnight bowling, be aware that they play every Dance Hits of 90s tune ever recorded, and you must be careful not to sing along and find yourself in the middle of the bowling alley surrounded by people 1/3 your age while you are singing "I know what I want, and I want it now, cuz I'm Mr. Vain." Now every teen agree in this damn county knows I know all the words to every song that Culture Beat ever did. It's every worse that I knew all the words to every Ace of Base song played too. 4) Truth Four: If you are at midnight bowling and a child, possibly related to you, asks in front of others, what is the intro dance step to I Like To Move It, Move It (by Reel to Real featuring The Man Stuntman) think before you do it, because actually doing it causes other people to stare. 5) Truth Five: They do not play Joni Mitchell music at midnight bowling. That is enough truth for one night. Vince NPIMH: Be My Lov-a by La Bouche (how the hell do I know all these 90s dance songs...) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:19:22 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Re: My Epiphany, sjc >Hello all. I have missed you more than I can possibly write here. Just >watched a biography on the Bee Gees. Saddened by the loss of Maurice more >than I could express. Personal sadness has me in its clutches as well. >Far from home with no one to turn to, personally; no one to touch. The >only solace I could think of, the only place to which I could run was my >home here. Here, I know you understand. arms >hold me tight on this cold, >lonely, sad Wisconsin night. Holding you in front of the hearth tonight..Mack. You trust us enough to share. I love you! Bree Mack >---- _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:22:26 -0500 From: vince Subject: Helen Thomas njc Helen Thomas, the most senior member of the White House press corps, and Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer on Monday over the issue of Iraq. Check out the dialogue: January 6, 2003 - 12:35 P.M. EST MR. FLEISCHER: Good afternoon and happy New Year to everybody. The President began his day with an intelligence briefing, followed by an FBI briefing. Then he had a series of policy briefings. And this afternoon, the President will look forward to a Cabinet meeting where the President will discuss with members of his Cabinet his agenda for the year. The President is going to focus on economic growth, making America a more compassionate country, and providing for the security of our nation abroad and on the homefront. And with that, I'm more than happy to take your questions. Helen. HELEN THOMAS: At the earlier briefing, Ari, you said that the President deplored the taking of innocent lives. Does that apply to all innocent lives in the world? And I have a follow-up. MR. FLEISCHER: I refer specifically to a horrible terrorist attack on Tel Aviv that killed scores and wounded hundreds. And the President, as he said in his statement yesterday, deplores in the strongest terms the taking of those lives and the wounding of those people, innocents in Israel. MS. THOMAS: My follow-up is, why does he want to drop bombs on innocent Iraqis? MR. FLEISCHER: Helen, the question is how to protect Americans, and our allies and friends -- MS. THOMAS: They're not attacking you. MR. FLEISCHER: -- from a country -- MS. THOMAS: Have they laid the glove on you or on the United States, the Iraqis, in 11 years? MR. FLEISCHER: I guess you have forgotten about the Americans who were killed in the first Gulf War as a result of Saddam Hussein's aggression then. MS. THOMAS: Is this revenge, 11 years of revenge? MR. FLEISCHER: Helen, I think you know very well that the President's position is that he wants to avert war, and that the President has asked the United Nations to go into Iraq to help with the purpose of averting war. MS. THOMAS: Would the President attack innocent Iraqi lives? MR. FLEISCHER: The President wants to make certain that he can defend our country, defend our interests, defend the region, and make certain that American lives are not lost. MS. THOMAS: And he thinks they are a threat to us? MR. FLEISCHER: There is no question that the President thinks that Iraq is a threat to the United States. MS. THOMAS: The Iraqi people? MR. FLEISCHER: The Iraqi people are represented by their government. If there was regime change, the Iraqi -- MS. THOMAS: So they will be vulnerable? MR. FLEISCHER: Actually, the President has made it very clear that he has not dispute with the people of Iraq. That's why the American policy remains a policy of regime change. There is no question the people of Iraq -- MS. THOMAS: That's a decision for them to make, isn't it? It's their country. MR. FLEISCHER: Helen, if you think that the people of Iraq are in a position to dictate who their dictator is, I don't think that has been what history has shown. MS. THOMAS: I think many countries don't have -- people don't have the decision -- including us. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:34:23 -0500 From: vince Subject: Glaspie and Dole and good buddy Saddam njc Kent Southard wrote: > When Hussein sought to invade Kuwait because they were drilling slantwise under the border, he sought our permission, and our ambassador, April Glaspie, gave it. Hussein's a thug, but he was 'our' thug, and he's never been stupid enough to threaten us. > And Bush's first response to Kuwait was he didn't care. Then Margaret Thatcher got on the phone to him and the policy shifted 180 degrees. Frankly I am tired of British prime ministers putting up our presidents to fight wars that the British Empire lost and can't fight again. I think we need a little more Spirit of 1776 and reject the authority of colonialism again. The best part of the 1996 campaign was knowing the Clinton people had the videotape of Sen. Bob Dole acting on behalf of the Bush administration toasting Saddam Hussein at a dinner a few months before the invasion of Kuwait. I knew as long as the Clinton campaign never ran the tape, that the race wasn't close. Now of course will come the denials that Dole did such a thing or the spin on why he did. I am ever thankful that I don't have to live my life as an apologist for anyone but me. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 01:00:41 -0500 From: vince Subject: NJC time to invade, bomb, and destroy I found the link for the place that ought to be bombed, then invaded, then burned and leveled to the ground before it ever commits another act of evil as heinous as the one I witnessed today: http://kangaroojack.warnerbros.com/ It is best for US forces to act before the Australian government sees this movie and takes pre-emptory military moves. In the meantime, every one who had anything to do with this should be detained as enemy combatants and held without counsel, or any basic human rights, at Gitmo and kept in cages. If Warner Brothers and Castle Rock aren't being tried at the Hague within the week, I will be damn angry. Gage disagrees with me, but as I explained to him, there are some things simply unacceptable in human society. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:02:42 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Article on American-Saudi relations NJC PC 3rd request- PLEASE Sarah, do not paste whole articles...post the link instead, thanks ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:02:52 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: thanks lucy njc thank you lucy for your compassionate thoughts, & beautiful way of expressing them ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 02:03:18 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: January 18 1974: Joni performed at the Kiel Opera House in St. Louis on the first date of her tour with the LA Express. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=297 http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=817 - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 02:03:18 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 18 On January 18 the following items were published: 1988: "California Weather" - CBS Evening News (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=910 1998: "Rock's Fab Fiftysomethings" - New York Daily News (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=219 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 02:06:03 -0500 From: Scott Fifield Subject: Travelogue / Sharon / Wisconsin / Cesspool / Sofa / Epiphany / Moon I've been thinking of posting all week. Busy with one thing or another, I failed to share my thoughts even though I've been sparked to think about Joni, having been courted by some great post-ers. Someone mentioned "Song For Sharon" being their favorite Joni song. And it's my second favorite, which out of all these stacks and stacks of words that rhyme, that's pretty coincidental that someone else here has that as one of their two favorite songs. (My favorite Joni Mitchell song, by the way, is "Moon At The Window.") Then somebody posted about a "cold, lonely, sad Wisconsin night" and it brought back a flood of memories for me, as I lived in Wisconsin in 1991 and there was A LOT of cold, lonely, and sad there. And "Come In From The Cold" was my favorite song in 1991 - and I realized that in order to come in from the cold, I had to leave Wisconsin. Of course, like a fool, I ended up here in New Hampshire - where it's not a heck of a lot warmer. Then all the Travelogue talk. I've been listening to it progressively more each day since the 19th of November. I haven't gone a whole day without playing it and perhaps as a result, it's seeping into my soul with equal gusto to every other Joni release I ever anticipated. I am thrilled by this cd and although I fully admit that if I'm not in the mood, I do hit the "FF" button when it comes to "The Sire of Sorrow," "Slouching Towards Bethlehem," and "Borderline." Those are the only 3 - and it has everything to do with the songs and not the vocals or the musicianship. They're just my 3 least favorite songs on the two cd set. If I had been asked, here's how I would have handled the song selection: REMOVE: The Sire Of Sorrow / Slouching Towards Bethlehem / Borderline / Chinese Cafe / Otis and Marlena REPLACE: Moon At The Window / Song For Sharon / Rainy Night House / Jericho / The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines / Two Grey Rooms I love "Sex Kills" on Travelogue...I think it's 'just o.k.' on "Turbulent Indigo." I think it's exciting and bombastic and wild with angry traces. Such wonderful phrasing on these swingers. My favorites from Travelogue: You Dream Flat Tires (absolute favorite) / The Dawntreader / Refuge Of The Roads / Love / Cherokee Louise. Which songs on Travelogue I like BETTER than the original versions: You Dream Flat Tires / Woodstock / God Must Be A Boogie Man / Sex Kills / The Dawntreader. I think "Ethiopa" is perhaps the most unlistenable Joni song ever (to my ears.) And "Dog Eat Dog" the least satisfying album to me. I do like "Lucky Girl" "Impossible Dreamer" and "Good Friends" - but those three shouldn't be the three strongest cuts on an album. Placed on just about any other album, they wouldn't be deemed 'the best.' I, too, don't think that Joni's days of creativity are a thing of the past. What if the muse visits her and she wakes up with a lyric in her head or a melody in her mind? I'll bet she'll commit to the paper and the guitar strings. She won't be able to not create, that's my guess. One night this week - after reading one of the reviews, I went to bed and had a dream. I dreamt that Joni was putting out a new album called "Cesspool" and that the first side was called "I Came To The Cesspool" and side 2 (vinyl, in my dreams) was entitled "Out Of The Cesspool And Down To The Seaside." I remember the lead-off single from this project was a song called, "Screwed From The Beginning" which I'm fairly certain is a quote from one of her recent interviews. Or else I imagined it like so much in dreamspace. Then there was all this talk of "The Hissing Of Summer Lawns" and I was shocked that someone immediately liked "The Jungle Line" but nothing else! My first impulse was, "no way." But music taste is like that I suppose. For me, I immediately took to "In France They Kiss On Main Street" and "Harry's House / Centerpiece"...everything else crept s-l-o-w-l-y into my subconscious. And "The Jungle Line" was the very last one to endear itself to my psyche. That album is a masterpiece, to be sure. My favorite moment of the entire album though is when Joni speaks, "get down off of that sofa...nothin's any good...nothin's any good..." I've enjoyed the epiphany posts too. Mine began when I was 13 or 14. My sister (named Joni, as a matter of fact) made a mixed tape with her favorite Joni songs on it. I immediately took to "The Last Time I Saw Richard" "Morning Morgantown" "Carey" "The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" and "People's Parties." I played that mixed cassette for months before I finally bought a cassette. I got "Court & Spark" of course. And I had an instant connection with Joni. Or she with me. And then I remember thinking (this was 1984) how strange that she hadn't released an album in two years. Years seemed longer back then. Between 1984 and 1985 I had bought ALL of albums (or cassettes) and then when my first "new" Joni album arrived, I was initially thrilled by the single "Good Friends." The artwork was cool and I had such hopes. But it was harder for me to like "Dog Eat Dog" than all but "Mingus" (which my 15 year old ears couldn't quite embrace.) I never warmed up to "Ethiopia." I was so relieved when "Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm" arrived because I fell in love with many of those cuts, most notably "Tea Leaf Prophecy," "Number One," "Cool Water," and "My Secret Place." So the exact epiphany moment would have been in the summer of 1984 when I heard the live version of "Rainy Night House" and got chills. It was so moody and atmospheric...it was the last song on my sister's mixed tape and it became my favorite for a long time. Until I fell in love in 1989 and "Moon At The Window" was the soundtrack to my passion at that time. I still have a charcoal drawing of a moon at the window that he sketched for me. But that's a story for another time and place. It's after 2 a.m. now and I should hit send. NP: "Waiting For Conrad" by Shooglenifty ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:45:42 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: ACOY Covers > --- frasere@intergate.ca wrote: > Quoting > SCJoniGuy@aol.com: >> excellent, but these >> > artists also turn in great ACOY's: >> > >> > Tori Amos >> > Betty Buckley >> > Michael Holland >> > Brian Kennedy >> > Prince >> > Phoebe Snow >> > Susan Webb >> >> I like Brian Kennedy's version best. It was unpretentious. It was like an unafraid man who lovingly if painfully tells his doomed love affair. Diana Krall's slow-burning version brought out the happy-kind-of-sad, wistful quality of the song. Joseph in Manila ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #41 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)