From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #35 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, January 16 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 035 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Smoking gun? [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Smoking gun?njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: JoniMitchell.com face lift ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Bush lies--who lies? NJC, PC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Smoking gun? NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Antiwar groups NJC, PC ["kakki" ] war protests pc njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: The 100 songs that changed the world NJC [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Just war (NJC) [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Travelogue Opinion ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: My Epiphany ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: Funniest movie lines (NJC) ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: Smoking gun?, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: My Epiphany [David Sadowski ] NJC Re: Smoking gun?, njc NJC NJC njc NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: My Epiphany - HOSL [Merk54@aol.com] Jackson says he's not to blame (NJC) ["Deb Messling" ] Re: My Epiphany, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: My Epiphany - HOSL ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: My Epiphany [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: My Epiphany ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: war protests pc njc ["kakki" ] Re: JoniMitchell.com face lift [Catherine McKay ] Re: My Epiphany jc now ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: war protests pc njc [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Just war (NJC) (PC) [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: DJRD cover ["Raffaele Malanga" ] Re: war protests pc njc ["kakki" ] Re: My Epiphany njc ["RSM" ] Re: Travelogue Opinion [Catherine McKay ] Re: war protests pc njc [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #33 ["Arlene T." ] Re: Does Joni swing? And Diana Krall [Catherine McKay ] Re: war protests njc [vince ] quick jokes and other persiflage!!! NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:08:50 -0500 From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Smoking gun? U.N. Experts Report Chemical Warheads Find in Iraq Reuters Thursday, January 16, 2003; 12:56 PM PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT START SENDING THIS GARBAGE TO JONI-ONLY SUBSCRIBERS. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:29:10 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Smoking gun?njc You just got IV paul pissed. LOL!! >BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.N. weapons inspectors found empty chemical warheads >during an inspection of a storage area in Iraq on Thursday, a U.N. >spokesman >said in Baghdad. > >There was no immediate comment from the Iraqi side. Hmmm? I wonder why? Well..if you want use these as a deterrent you declare. Like don't mess with me. But if you are planning a secret attack..would you declare? (like China...India has made it known..leave us alone...WE GOT EM'!) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:41:35 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: JoniMitchell.com face lift the meryl streep site is nice however one thing i do not like is that you have to do that enter thing TWICE...totally uneccessary to do that at all imo...i agree with catherine that some colors on others are impossible to read...go with the elegant rather than trendy look...i don't mind the site as it is now ... it is rather amazing with sooo much great info (i think we are talking about jonimitchell.com not jmdl right?) however if jim wants to change it then i say go for it!!! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:41:46 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Bush lies--who lies? NJC, PC >>The U.S. and UK have the proof, but they're not making it public because they would endanger their sources.<< please explain... if it is not public information, how would you know this... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:45:16 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Smoking gun? NJC In a message dated 1/16/2003 2:09:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: > PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT START SENDING THIS GARBAGE TO JONI-ONLY > SUBSCRIBERS. > Paul, you're back!!!! Good to see you posting again. How was the Celine Dion Discussion List??? :~) (just kidding) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:11:14 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Antiwar groups NJC, PC Sara wrote > Regarding the Marxist quote from me: I was answering a point about > the ANSWER website, which I still haven't looked at. I should have > said: it wouldn't surprise me if there was a lot of Marxist/Socialist > Worker organization behind some anti-war actions. I didn't mean to > imply that all anti-war campaigners are Marxists. And as the one who mentioned ANSWER I did not mean to imply that ALL antiwar groups were Marxist/Socialist. Bit ANSWER and it's main affiliates ARE the prime organizers and activists in the movement. Here is a link to an another antiwar group "ZNet | A Community of People Committed to Social Change" http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=45&ItemID=2527 Some interesting excerpts from them on ANSWER, IAC and NION here: "One extremely energetic antiwar group is the International Action Center (IAC). It is the leading force in the coalition ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism) which is calling the October 26 demonstrations in Washington, DC and elsewhere. (IAC and ANSWER share a New York City phone number and the latter's website features many materials from IAC.) IAC is officially led by Ramsey Clark and is largely the creation of the Workers World Party; and many key IAC figures are prominent writers for WWP. WWP holds many views that we find abhorrent. It considers North Korea "socialist Korea" where the "land, factories, homes, hotels, parks, schools, hospitals, offices, museums, buses, subways, everything in the DPRK belongs to the people as a whole" (Workers World, May 9, 2002), a fantastic distortion of the reality of one of the most rigid dictatorships in the world. IAC expresses its solidarity with Slobodan Milosevic (http://www.iacenter.org/yugo_milosdeligation.htm). There's of course much to criticize in the one-sided Hague war crimes tribunal, but to champion Milosevic is grotesque. The ANSWER website provides an IAC backgrounder on Afghanistan that refers to the dictatorial government that took power in that country in 1978 as "socialist" and says of the Soviet invasion the next year: the "USSR intervened militarily at the behest of the Afghani revolutionary government" (http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/resources/index.html) -- neglecting to mention that Moscow first had to engineer the execution of the Afghan leader to get themselves the invitation to intervene. In none of IAC's considerable resources on the current Iraq crisis is there a single negative word about Saddam Hussein. There is no mention that he is a ruthless dictator. (This omission is not surprising, given their inability to detect any problem of dictatorship with the Soviet-backed regime in Afghanistan.) There is no mention that Hussein is responsible for the deaths of many tens of thousands of Iraqi Kurds and Shi'ites. IAC's position is that any opponent of U.S. imperialism must be championed and never criticized. Another significant antiwar organization is Not In Our Names. NION has issued a very eloquent and forceful Pledge of Resistance opposing Bush's war on terrorism, signed by prominent individuals and thousands of others. NION organized important demonstrations around the U.S. on October 6 and on June 6. Significant impetus behind NION comes from the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP). RCP identifies itself as followers of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism. Their website (http://rwor.org/) expresses support for Shining Path in Peru (which they say should properly be called the Maoist Communist Party of Peru), an organization with a gruesome record of violently targeting other progressive groups. For the RCP, freedom doesn't include the right of a minority to dissent (this is a bourgeois formulation, they say, pushed by John Stuart Mill and Rosa Luxembourg); the correct view, they say, is that of Mao (the "greatest revolutionary of our time"): "If Marxist Leninists are in control, the rights of the vast majority will be guaranteed." Despite these views, however, RCP does not push its specific positions on NION to the degree that IAC does on ANSWER. For example, while the ANSWER website offers such things as the IAC backgrounder on Afghanistan cited above, the NION website and its public positions have no connection to the sometimes bizarre views of the RCP. The case for participating in NION events is stronger than for ANSWER events. It still makes overwhelming sense to build better antiwar coalitions, but in the meantime supporting NION activities promotes an antiwar message that we support, with relatively little compromise of our views." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:00:37 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: war protests pc njc there is a misconception that those who oppose this war are 'left' or that marxists are responsible for the protests... (Excerpt from today's Boston Globe) FOES OF A WAR IN IRAQ SPREAD THEIR MESSAGE January 16, 2003 By Robert Schlesinger, Globe Staff 'The Win Without War group, announced last month as a group of "patriotic Americans who share the belief that Saddam Hussein cannot be allowed to possess weapons of mass destruction" but which also opposes a military solution, was the result. The coalition includes groups ranging from the National Organization of Women to the National Council of Churches. "It's an attempt to recognize that it's not just the liberal left or the theological left or the political left that is organizing," said Dr. Bob Edgar, a former House Democrat from Pennsylvania who is now the general secretary for the National Council on Churches. "It's just average, ordinary, common people who don't normally get excited about issues of war and peace, but on this issue they believe that the administration has not made its case."' ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:22:48 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: The 100 songs that changed the world NJC "1. Thats All Right  Elvis Presley - Rock 'n' roll history begins here." Really? I think Little Richard, Chuck Berry, and many others would be very surprised to know this. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:44:26 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Just war (NJC) Just a quick dip-in to agree and question our right to arbitrarily police the counrty of our choice. Mary, I couldn't agree more with your much calmer and intellectual response, than I could ever muster. I am a pacifist, at least till all avenues have been exhausted. And if a cause be precise, clear and a matter of survial, I can on occasion get behind the right to defend with force. However, I have to ask - why are we not attacking Saudia Arabia? Why not? They don't have a democracy, they treat women like shit, 8 of the 9 terrorist from 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia? Why not them? We could got to probably 3 or 4 other Arab countries and find more evidence that Iraq, So lets just drop the big one on all of them. In another 5 or ten years, it'll be someone else we were once in bed with that we'll be turning on. Let's just take care of all business now. And while I agree with your intentions Sarah. It is just not our right to decide what form of government is in place in other countries. In rare instances we have been involved and rightly so. But this idealism that we are what everyone wants to be is the very reason we have so many enemies. And many of these differences are religious based. Being an atheist and a feminist I have huge problems with these religions and their treatment of women. Funny how women's rights surfaces as a part of the reasoning now, in a more moderate Muslim country than most, which Iraq is. Why do we demonize everyone who isn't just like us. I understand that in this instance we have been attacked and if you think my first instinct even as a pacifist isn't one of anger and rage, let me tell you it is and was. But in a civilized society and world you have to look beyond the instant "gratification" of revenge. If we are a world leader than let us lead! And Sarah and Mary, we can continue to collect articles from both sides, we all have evidence for our slants. Personally I review a bit of both sides and then see what fits in with my own morality and sense of what is right or wrong AND what do I believe about what was written in a particular article. So I am not impressed by throngs of text and articles, not that you two have done this, but we do have a culprit or two here who believe this is the end all, it's not - I have my own mind, something I get to have here in America. And hitting on Iraq or not hitting on Iraq, I would bet isn't gonna change my right to think freely one iota. But violence usually begets violence, wars have different names, but they are all threads of a rope/noose we are hanging around humanity's neck, till we finally put an end to civilization all together. Thanks for listening to my ranting - again. Peace, Susan > Sarah wrote, in her very comprehensive and thought-provoking response: > > "A question for you: what facts would convince you that this is a just war?" > > It's very simple: a clear, undisputed link between Iraq and the terrorist attacks against the > U.S. on September 11, 2001, or a much more foreful statement than any I have heard from those in > the know that such a link exists, but that sources can't be revealed for obvious reasons. And it does not give the U.S. carte blanche to attack another nation, whose link to the September 11 attacks is unclear at best, in order to further its own domestic and international agenda. To me, such action cheapens the memories and lives of all those who lost their lives that day, and is a travesty. There. I've felt that for a long time. Now I've finally said it. > > Mary. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:47:18 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: Travelogue Opinion First of all Arlene welcome to the list and don't be afraid to say what you feel. Everyone has different opinions but one thing we all agree on is that we love Joni of course. Me, I love TLOG and it keeps growing and growing on me. It has been recorded so well and her voice is not lost like on BSN (that one really is painful to listen to). Sure I would have liked it if she played a lead instrument (acoustic guitar or/and piano) with the orchestra still there like on 'Down To You' maybe, but I'm sure Joni has her reasons for not doing so like I'm sure she has her reasons for not writing new songs. The fact is if most other people did this project it would have fallen down flat. Her songwriting is so strong. This is all just what I think and I'm not trying to force you to like it. It's just that I like it so much. Some of these versions I like slightly better than the originals ('The Dawntreader', 'You Dream Flat Tyres', 'Borderline', 'Be Cool', 'God Must Be A Boogie Man') and some perhaps could have been replaced ('Sex kills', 'Slouching...', 'Luwigs Tune', 'Just Like This Train') by a different choice. The other songs I like as much as the originals but in a different way. The songs need to be treated as new songs or else they can't take form. Her voice may not be like it once was but she still expresses so much emotion from it. Also after more listens new sounds you haven't heard before come out like with THOSL I guess. If this is her last album she's going out in style. Stephen Toogood NP: 'See If They Applaud' Thea Gilmore (forgot how good it sounds) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arlene T." To: "Joni List" Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:22 PM Subject: Travelogue Opinion > : This is my first contribution to this list, so please be kind. > : > : I've been a rabid Joni fan since childhood, and even when she > : went through some experimental phases that I didn't particularly > : like, even when she (in my humble opinion) ruined her vocal range > : through smoking, I bought the albums to support her efforts. This especially > : applied to "Both Sides Now", which I can barely listen to. > : > : I've now had the opportunity on the Joni website to listen to samples > : of her new CD "Travelogue". I may be in the minority here, but man! > : Every single song sounded like a dirge to me. Nothing in the slightest > : bit upbeat, every song sounded similar. With so many wonderful > : songs to choose from in this world, Joni appears to have decided > : that only the most morose, plodding tunes are suitable for her. > : I can't bring myself to purchase it. > : > : Again, please be gentle with me. Surely there's someone out there > : who agrees with me just a little tiny bit! > : > : Arlene > : ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:48:19 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: My Epiphany >Epiphanies anyone? We I got HITS first of all after being intrigued by her art work and the fact she had so many albums and I'd never heard of her! I was captivated from the moment 'Urge for Going' started and loved all the tracks apart from 'Come In From The Cold' which I now love btw. 'Big Yellow Taxi' sounded farmiliar but on a whole all her music was new to me. I then rushed out and got MISSES which was like jumping into the deep end!. Out of the songs I liked straight away were 'For The Roses' and 'Harry's House...' (still 2 of my faves). I then got THOSL which I played and wrote-off straight away thinking she went mad or something! Then I got 'Blue' which I love(d) all the way through. I refused to believe that 'Harry's House...' was the only good track on THOSL so I went back to it and bit by bit it got through to me and since then the album has only ever sounded divine. After that I eventually got every Joni album! So I guess it was THOSL that made me realise that her music grows and is timeless. Stephen Toogood NP: 'My Own Private Riot' Thea Gilmore ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:49:15 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: Funniest movie lines (NJC) LOL. Couldn't agree more. I sometimes relate that's why I have the t-shirt! Stephen Toogood NP: 'Land Of The Free' Thea Gilmore - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike pritchard" To: "list" Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 10:10 AM Subject: re: Funniest movie lines (NJC) > Please hear my confession. I have never seen any episodes of 'The Simpsons'; > hard to believe, I suppose, but true all the same. Nevertheless I did see in > the Guardian yesterday in their 'Notes and Queries' section the following Q > and A. > Q. Does the human memory have a limit? Could I eventually reach a point that > if I read another book I will forget something else? > A. You certainly could. Homer (Simpson) once complained: "Every time I learn > something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took > that home wine-making course and I forgot how to drive?" > > I think that's one of the funniest lines that I have never heard. > mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:05:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Smoking gun?, njc Paul! You're back! I thought you were unsu**ed. Anyway, you forgot the njc tag on your rant. :) Thought you should know. Lama > PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT START SENDING THIS > GARBAGE TO JONI-ONLY SUBSCRIBERS. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:08:24 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: My Epiphany Back when I was in high school a girl I knew played Ladies of the Canyon for me and I was captivated. I think that the song Conversation kinda summed up our relationship... two people who maybe should've become involved, but didn't. Since then I have been hooked. Blue is still my favorite although I love most of the others too and especially like Hejira. For some reason I have trouble getting onto For the Roses. The same friend also played me Friends by the Beach Boys which turned me on to them and they have also been among my favorites ever since.... and that record is also one of their best. I always wondered what would've happened had Brian Wilson and Joni Mitchell recorded together. I've heard stories of him listening to Blue repeatedly at top volume back in the 70s. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:11:39 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Smoking gun?, njc NJC NJC njc NJC >Anyway, you forgot the njc tag on your rant. Rant??? He said "please" 3 times, and not once did he tell her to "eat sh*t and die"! It's a kindler, gentler Paul! :~) Bob NP: Dylan, "Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:25:19 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: My Epiphany - HOSL Stephen, It took me over two years to appreciate HOSL. For some reason I just couldn't get it. Loved Hejira immediately, but for the life of me I couldn't get HOSL - accept for Jungle Line - loved that immediately. Only through the persistance of a good friend did I finally come to appreciate this album, and then it was "Damn, why didn't I like this all along?" Jack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:42:57 -0500 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Jackson says he's not to blame (NJC) This from CNN: LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Jackson Browne is demanding that the TBS Superstation not rebroadcast "America's Prince: The John F. Kennedy Jr. Story" until scenes are deleted that the rock star says defame him. The movie, which premiered on the cable station Sunday, shows Kennedy rescuing Daryl Hannah after Browne allegedly beat her up. The actress is the former girlfriend of both Browne, 54, and Kennedy, who died in a plane crash in 1999 at 38. "Mr. Browne has never assaulted Daryl Hannah," the singer-songwriter's publicist, Michael Jensen, said Wednesday. "Ms. Hannah never filed a police report claiming such an assault and Mr. Browne was never arrested for or charged with such an assault." Browne's attorney, Lawrence Iser, demanded Tuesday that TBS halt future broadcasts of the movie until "false and defamatory" scenes are removed. A spokeswoman with Atlanta-based TBS Superstation did not immediately return a message for comment. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:07:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: My Epiphany, njc Stephen, Your first Joni album was 'hits'? Did I read this correctly? That's amazing to me because it was so recent. Your whole history with Joni, then, is completely within the life of the JMDL! I was an isolated fan for decades before Les finally got off his duff. Funny. Lama - --- Stephen Toogood wrote: > We I got HITS first of all after being intrigued by > her art work and the > fact she had so many albums and I'd never heard of > her! > I refused to believe that 'Harry's House...' was the > only good track on > THOSL so I went back to it and bit by bit it got > through to me and since > then the album has only ever sounded divine. After > that I eventually got > every Joni album! > > So I guess it was THOSL that made me realise that > her music grows and is > timeless. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:23:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: My Epiphany - HOSL I love "The Hissing Of Summer Lawns" (THOSL). For me, it's amazing on many, many levels. Eclecticism is blowing all through it at gale force. (One might say, Eclecticism "runs all through [its] circuits like a heartbeat".) The level of songwriting is very, very high and consistent. Her singing was never better or more interesting and the musicians are also varied and excellent. Some pieces flow into each other and some stand starkly in contrast to the previous track. As others have already mentioned, some of the stories are very cinematic. Other songs, like "Sweet Bird" are so anti-cinematic, so internal, so cerebral, and metaphorical, that the listener is forced to invent their own "film" on the spot. In spite of the eclecticism on so many levels, it hangs together as a whole, like a perfect, favorite, Christmas ornament. Like the Bible, it doesn't give up all of its secrets on the first "reading". Yah, I'd say THOSL is an okay album. Lama - --- Merk54@aol.com wrote: > Stephen, > > It took me over two years to appreciate HOSL. For > some reason I just couldn't get it. Loved Hejira > immediately, but for the life of me I couldn't get > HOSL - accept for Jungle Line - loved that > immediately. Only through the persistance of a good > friend did I finally come to appreciate this album, > and then it was "Damn, why didn't I like this all > along?" > > Jack Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:22:50 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: My Epiphany <> What was more amazing to me was that he came to her MUSIC by way of her PAINTING. Can anyone else here make that claim? I would imagine that quite a few people (especially young people wanting an introduction) would pick up "Hits" first. Bob NP: Dylan, "Isis" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:27:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: My Epiphany That's easy: "God only knows what I'd be with all the houselights left up, bright." Chocolate and garlic don't mix well. Next question? I have time for one more question here, before I fall. I'm the world's most opinionated man. (With apologies to Brian, Joan, and David in that order.) Lama - --- David Sadowski wrote: > I always wondered what would've happened had Brian > Wilson and Joni > Mitchell recorded together. I've heard stories of > him listening to Blue > repeatedly at top volume back in the 70s. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:51:46 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: war protests pc njc But Kate, is it a misconception to say that ANSWER and the IAC, who have been the principal organizers of the large antiwar rallies in several cities are left and/or Marxist/Socialist? They declare themselves to be, as do most of their affiliates. It's all there on their websites and links. They are also the ones getting most all of the coverage in the media. And I've said many times there are other antiwar groups, including some on the right, who oppose the war. However, I clearly recall that here on the list on a number of occasions in the past ANSWER and its affiliates have been the endorsed groups. Those who have promoted ANSWER here invite the reader to participate in their rallies and support them. I am willing to believe, however, that the people who asked support of ANSWER perhaps did not know its affiliations. What gets me is that I don't recall hearing a peep out of these groups when the U.S. military was warring and killing people in Bosnia/Kosovo. There was a war that didn't not threaten the U.S. as opposed to Iraq. There were certainly no large antiwar protests in the streets of major U.S. cities back then, or if there were, I never saw them covered in the media. If anyone has evidence that there were large opposition protests back then, please let me know. Until then, it makes the sincerity of these particular groups questionable to me because they seem to be selective as to when they oppose wars. Cynically, it makes me think that if a different person was in the White House pursuing regime change in Iraq, the voices would be a lot more subdued, if not silent. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:40:55 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JoniMitchell.com face lift --- Kate Bennett wrote: > the meryl streep site is nice however one thing i do > not like is that you > have to do that enter thing TWICE...totally > uneccessary to do that at all > imo... That drives me nuts too. I think they call it a "splash" page, but I agree - it's unnecessary and in some it's even hard to find the spot where you're supposed to enter the site itself (like, maybe the word "enter" would be nice?) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:51:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: My Epiphany jc now We should print out his email and send it to her management..... :) With a note saying, "Hey Joni, maybe the 'hits' package wasn't such a bad deal after all. Here's a guy who 'found your door' and BOUGHT YOUR ENTIRE FECKING CATALOG! You can relax now. Love, JMDL. PS, Leonard Feather of downbeat *LOVED* Mingus. Get over it, baby. The water's fine and we love you." Newbies. Gotta LOVE IT! Lama PS, Translation for those new to Joni: For decades Joni flatly refused to put out a "Greatest Hits" collection even though the record company executives said they wanted one. Loosely translated, and in part, this means that the general public wanted one. (HINT! People who haven't bought anything from you will buy your hits collection. HINT!) Her take, and she probably has some experience, is that a hits package would "kill off the catalog". That means that she feared that people would buy the hits collection and never buy anything else. That's probably very true of some bands. [A new thread?] But the point is that Joni's quality is so impossibly high that I will bet that lots of people are going, "Wowser- maybe I'll spring for "Court & Spark" next." Once they "get" (and I mean "appreciate") THOSL, forget it. They have to have the whole catalog. Is there anyone who loves THOSL and decided to stop buying her albums with just that one? "He says [Impossible] as he hands you a bone and something is happening and ya don't know what it is; do you, Mister Joan--s." I guess every hits package has a shadow and it has some source of light. - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > < correctly? That's amazing to me because it was so > recent. >> > > What was more amazing to me was that he came to her > MUSIC by way of her PAINTING. Can anyone else here > make that claim? > > I would imagine that quite a few people (especially > young people wanting an introduction) would pick up > "Hits" first. > > Bob > > NP: Dylan, "Isis" Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:54:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: war protests pc njc Kakki - I don't know about ANSWER, but IAC had a campaign against bombing in Kosovo/Bosnia. And there were lots of other rallies and protests organized in towns and cities across the U.S. - including at least one major rally in D.C. that I recall hearing about. And you're correct, the mainstream media did not cover them, that's for sure. Jenny kakki wrote:But Kate, is it a misconception to say that ANSWER and the IAC, who have been the principal organizers of the large antiwar rallies in several cities are left and/or Marxist/Socialist? They declare themselves to be, as do most of their affiliates. It's all there on their websites and links. They are also the ones getting most all of the coverage in the media. And I've said many times there are other antiwar groups, including some on the right, who oppose the war. However, I clearly recall that here on the list on a number of occasions in the past ANSWER and its affiliates have been the endorsed groups. Those who have promoted ANSWER here invite the reader to participate in their rallies and support them. I am willing to believe, however, that the people who asked support of ANSWER perhaps did not know its affiliations. What gets me is that I don't recall hearing a peep out of these groups when the U.S. military was warring and killing people in Bosnia/Kosovo. There was a war that didn't not threaten the U.S. as opposed to Iraq. There were certainly no large antiwar protests in the streets of major U.S. cities back then, or if there were, I never saw them covered in the media. If anyone has evidence that there were large opposition protests back then, please let me know. Until then, it makes the sincerity of these particular groups questionable to me because they seem to be selective as to when they oppose wars. Cynically, it makes me think that if a different person was in the White House pursuing regime change in Iraq, the voices would be a lot more subdued, if not silent. Kakki Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:56:54 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Just war (NJC) (PC) Susan, I agree with a lot of what you say, especially the part about women's rights suddenly being on the agenda. Hear, hear. And I respect pacifism, when it's consistent. But you make the point that " it is just not our right to decide what form of government is in place in other countries". Following that argument, you would have respected Germany's right to elect Adolf Hitler, with all the consequences thereof, and you would have condemned any other nation that tried to interfere with what the Germans (let's face it, the Germans, not just Hitler) were doing to the Jews, the gays, the mentally ill, the physically disabled, the dissenters, the academics? Nationhood cannot be a curtain behind which people may act as they please. One of the very great advances of the last century was the advancement of human rights as a universal concept. No group of people can now arbitrarily decide to destroy any other group with impunity. If they do, regardless of whether they're an independent nation-state, or a gang of thugs on a street corner, they risk being hunted down and tried internationally, or attacked militarily if a trial is not possible. Their claim to statehood and the right to be self-determining is no longer respected, just as a man attacking his wife behind closed doors is no longer regarded as a private matter. As a pacifist, you have a moral right to refuse to take part in violence. But others equally have a moral right to go to war, provided the conditions of "just war" (jus ad bellum) apply. These are: having just cause, being declared by a proper authority, possessing right intention, having a reasonable chance of success, and the end being proportional to the means. "Being declared by a proper authority" does not mean the United Nations by the way (although it might). It refers to a government that does not rule arbitrarily and which is accountable to the people and the law. Whether some of these conditions apply are arguable. But the first and most important - "having just cause" does apply. The people of Iraq are being destroyed. There is NO doubt about that. You can doubt the weapons of mass destruction. You can doubt the oil interests. But the humanitarian aspect stands in stark undoubted contrast to all the other murkiness. It was exactly the same during WW2. There was a lot of doubt about the rightness of acting against Hitler from many different perspectives, especially for Britain, which stood to lose an empire, and whether you think the empire was a good or a bad thing, it was a lot for a country to lose and so suddenly. And there were arguments about whether Hitler had an atom bomb, and should we act/not act/act faster because of that. But after all the analysis, one thing stood out, and that was that Hitler was a monster, that he was doing terrible things to his people and the people of neighbouring countries, and that he would continue doing them unless stopped by force. It was this moral clarity that made that war just. A similar moral clarity applies to Iraq too. Don't let the murk blind you to that. Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:01:06 +0000 From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: Re: DJRD cover Colours, first of all. The sienna of the land and turquoise blu for the sky remind me of the colours used on the DJRD cover. Then the predominance of the main figure on the foreground and the superimpression of a naked body on it. But what really made me think this cover could have been an ispiration for Joni is the fact that Stravinsky is one of her favourite composers - she might have had the original album or seen it at least. I know... sometimes my imagination goes far, but I truly believe there are a few links here. Raf >From: "Bree Mcdonough" >To: r_malanga@hotmail.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: DJRD cover >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:22:49 -0500 > >I think if you took a giant leap..like from the south rim to the >north rim of the Grand Canyon..maybe? In all seriousness..could you >tell us what you see in this cover to think maybe what inspired Joni >for DJRD? I'm not artsy..but I will eventually get something. >Splain? > >Bree.. >now staring at DJRD cover ... > > >>here's been a discussion recently about the DJRD cover. Now, if you >>look at that cover you might recognize perhaps the source of >>inspiration for Joni's cover. >> >>I have uploaded the picture on the following address: >>http://www.raffaelemalanga.com/img/le_sacre_du_printemps.jpg >> >>I'd love to hear what you think about it. >> >>Raffaele >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ get 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:18:35 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: war protests pc njc Jenny wrote: >IAC had a campaign against bombing in Kosovo/Bosnia. And there were lots of other rallies and protests organized >in towns and cities across the U.S. - including at least one major rally in D.C. that I recall hearing about. Thanks for the info - I''ve been trying to find this evidence on the net and this may help in my search. Interestingly, I did find opposition (only stated, not organized) expressed on the Conservative right. Ironically, the opinions expressed were that the war in Kosovo was "all about getting an oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea" and "access to a valuable mining operation in Trepca." Hmmm, funny how the arguments switch sides sometimes depending on who is in the White House ;-) > And you're correct, the mainstream media did not cover them, that's for sure. I wonder why? Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:12:42 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: My Epiphany njc Not to quibble with your critique of a Mitchell/Wilson collaboration, but a good Mexican chicken mole will blend chocolate and garlic in a heavenly fashion. | Chocolate and garlic don't mix well. Next question? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:13:58 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Travelogue Opinion --- Seulbzzaj@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/16/2003 3:01:40 AM Eastern > Standard Time, les@jmdl.com > writes: > > > : Every single song sounded like a dirge to me. > Nothing in the slightest > > : bit upbeat, every song sounded similar. >> > > People have been saying that about Joni for 34 > years. :) > That's sure as heck what my Mum used to say when I was down in the basement listening to Joni - "What's that dirge?" ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:14:12 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: war protests pc njc Hmmm, funny how the arguments switch sides sometimes depending on who is in the White House ;-) ah, yes indeed. And you're correct, the mainstream media did not cover them, that's for sure. I wonder why? Must be the vast conservative right-wing media conspiracy. ; ) I simply think the rallies weren't deemed newsworthy - i.e., wouldn't sell papers. Oh yeah and Columbine happened right around then (I lived in Colorado at the time). People were consumed with that. It was a dark time. So is it warm where you are? Jenny Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:44:42 -0500 From: "Arlene T." Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #33 I suppose that because I was introduced to Joni at the very beginning of her career I fell in love not only with her poetic prowess, but with the incredible range of her voice as well as her tunings and beautiful melodies. I do realize that her tastes have changed over the years and I have incredible respect for her bravery in the face of the obnoxious music industry. However, as far as I'm concerned she really did ruin her voice through smoking (and naturally through no fault of her own just by the aging process). And I guess my own tastes have changed as well so that I've lost patience with what I consider the sameness tempos of the new album and the general downbeat feeling. And hey, she can swing with the best of 'em! To me, Diana Krall's version of "A Case of You" on the JM Tribute that was broadcast here in the States in April of 2000 just blows any other version away. Including Joni's original, even. Anyway, all in my humble opinion. Cheers, Arlene - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 10:09 AM Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #33 : I'd like to give a response to Arlene T. : : I'm 22 and am French and, here in France, Joni Mitchell remains mostly : unknown, above all amongst the young generation. However, everyone here knows : that song by Janet Jackson using a sample from Big Yellow Taxi (the chorus of : the song, actually), but no-one could say who sings it. Well, it is easy to : find her albums in record stores, but there's no diffusion at all. I first : got my attention to her when I watched the Isle of Wight concert, broadcast : on TV a few years go, and where Joni, dressed in yellow, cried before : singing. Then, I borrowed in a library the Blue album, then the Court & Spark : album. And that was it : I loved both. Then, I borrowed Both Sides Now (2000) : and did not liked it very much (like you, Arlene, that voice!). Then I bought : Hejira, Mingus, The Hissing of the Summer Lawns, Clouds, etc. She had such an : influence !! : I bought "Travelogue" and the least that I can say is that it is one of the : best albums I have ever listened to. The rearrangements of the three Hejira : songs (Amelia, Hejira, Refuge of the Roads) are so beautiful ! And The Sire : of Sorrow, Chinese Cafe, Woodstock, etc. !!! No upbeat tempo here, but 22 : great songs I can tell ! : At nearly sixty, she cannot swing like she used to do before. She turns to : philarmonic jazz, and that's all natural considering her career. : : Yours faithfully, : : Laurent. : : (marboli79@aol.com) : ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:49:24 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Does Joni swing? And Diana Krall --- "Arlene T." wrote: > >And > hey, she can swing with the best of 'em! > > To me, Diana Krall's version of "A Case of You" on > the JM Tribute that was > broadcast here in the States in April of 2000 just > blows any other version away. > Including Joni's original, even. I prefer the songs on T where Joni DOES swing. I wish she'd do more of it - she's quite good at it. I made a comment a while back about not being that thrilled with Diana Krall's singing style. However, I now take it back. I've been listening to a lot of her stuff lately and I want to hear even more. And her piano playing isn't bad either. ;) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:55:02 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: war protests njc kakki wrote: >What gets me is that I don't recall hearing a peep out of these groups when >the U.S. military was warring and killing people in Bosnia/Kosovo. There was >a war that didn't not threaten the U.S. as opposed to Iraq. Cynically, it makes me think that if a different person was in the White House pursuing regime change in Iraq, the voices would be a lot more >subdued, if not silent. > Then, Kakki, I respectfully submit that you go back and re-read the JMDL posts from that time period, for beginners. There was much anguish expressed in the JMDL over military force being used to counter the genocide in Kosovo. There was much, and severe criticism, of the Clinton administration's policies in Kosovo from many who were otherwise favorably disposed towards Clinton. Those discussions lasted for many, many months, and were very passionate. And as a long standing member of what may be termed the peace and justice community, I can tell you there was much dissension over the bombing of Serbia, and there continues to be. I will not be responsible for what you do not remember. It makes me very cynical about your viewpoints, given how convenient your memory is, and how limited your knowledge is of communities that lay outside of your circles of friends. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:57:00 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: war protests njc kakki wrote: > > >Hmmm, funny how the arguments switch sides sometimes depending on >who is in the White House ;-) > > Yes, Kakki, yes it is. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:57:24 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: quick jokes and other persiflage!!! NJC Loved the pickle slicer joke.... here is my current favourite... A woman walks in to a cocktail bar and says to the barman "Hey, give me a Double Entendre" ........so he gave her one....... Other current chuckle is a Polar bear walks into a pub and says " I will have a gin........................long silence.............and tonic" the bar man looks at the bear and says "Um why the big pause?" the bear replies......"well I am a polar bear".... Has anyone used the Parking God yet and got a result? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:00:11 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Krall's ACOY Arlene, I will certainly agree with you on your point about Diana Krall's version of ACOY. I remember watching it with a friend, and the two of us were struck speechless by the performance. Thank goodness for VCR's - we ended up watching that performance about 5 times that night. And thanks to Napster, I downloaded a digit version of the song, which I enjoy listening to quite often. Now if Diana could only match that level of artistry over the course of a whole album! Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Diana a great deal, but she showed what she was capable on that track, and everything else she's done pales in comparison - at least in my book. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 00:16:15 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Bush lies--who lies? NJC, PC > Yes, the means can taint the end, and I take that point and agree > with it. But in this limited case of Iraq - we can't tell a man who > is hanging upside down in an acid bath, or a woman who is being > gang-raped by prison wardens in front of her husband and children, or > a prisoner who is being kept in a morgue container for months on end > with only 30 minutes daylight each 24 hours - that - yes, sorry, we > could rescue you, but it would mean INTERFERING and that would "taint > the end" i.e. would make your rescue somehow not worth it. Do you really think a war will rescue these people? I sincerely doubt it. Why are we not going to attack Zimbabwe? Mugabe is every bit as sick as Saddam and his people are suffering and dyeing because of him. Why are we not bombing NK? They have concentration camps. Oh, that can also fight back, perhaps that is it. Why are we not attacking all countries we disappprove of? What about our own weapons of mass destruction? we have far more and we have alraedy used them. If this war was going to affect us directly-ie like in WW2 when our people and cities were bombed would we be so keen to go to war? I imagine it easier to support war when it is not on our doorstep. I believe Saddam and his 'family' should be got rid of. Bombing the hell out of his people, killing them, and pretedning we can resuce those held in torture chambers is fanciful to say the least. bw colin ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #35 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)