From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #34 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, January 16 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 034 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #33 --- jm.com "facelift" ????? [BRYAN8847@aol.c] re. grief NJC ["mike pritchard" ] re: Funniest movie lines (NJC) ["mike pritchard" ] Re: jm.com "facelift" ????? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Bush Lies - who lies? (njc) (pc) ["Arlene T." ] Re: Duncan & Brady NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Music to SKi by, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Pickle Slicer, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Focus NJC [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Travelogue Opinion [Seulbzzaj@aol.com] Re: Focus NJC [colin ] Film about Middle East FYI (njc, pc) [sl.m@shaw.ca] re: music to ski by, NJC [anne@sandstrom.com] facelift for jonimitchell.com? [anne@sandstrom.com] DJRD cover ["Raffaele Malanga" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #33 [MARBOLI79@aol.com] Re: JoniMitchell.com face lift ["Raffaele Malanga" ] Re: facelift for jonimitchell.com? ["Moni Kellermann" ] RE: Bush lies--who lies? NJC, PC [] Re: DJRD cover ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: music to ski by, NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Bush lies--who lies? NJC, PC [sl.m@shaw.ca] Just war (NJC) [] Re: Smoking gun? njc [sl.m@shaw.ca] NAMM (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Smoking gun? [sl.m@shaw.ca] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 03:21:25 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #33 --- jm.com "facelift" ????? Subject: JoniMitchell.com face lift ????? Absolutely. Happiness is the Best Web Site Facelift. Sorry, I'm trying to make a pun and am way too tired to do it successfully. I mentioned the idea of a site re-do a few days ago and several people have contacted me off-list to agree. The idea brings up many questions and ideas, some of which perhaps only Jim can answer (Jim, you have our eternal gratitude for taking over the site, and if you are reading can you answer two questions): 1. Is the site going to remain a fan-volunteer project? 2. Do you plan to continue operating it? (OK, three questions) 3. Are you planning upgrades and will you accept assistance? Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:47:58 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: re. grief NJC >>Jimmy, who is so happy now, I have blue jays flying out of my butt<< Hey Jimmy, contact me off-list for the name of a therapist who can help you with this condition. mike in bcn NPIMH Blue Jay Way ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:10:59 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: re: Funniest movie lines (NJC) Please hear my confession. I have never seen any episodes of 'The Simpsons'; hard to believe, I suppose, but true all the same. Nevertheless I did see in the Guardian yesterday in their 'Notes and Queries' section the following Q and A. Q. Does the human memory have a limit? Could I eventually reach a point that if I read another book I will forget something else? A. You certainly could. Homer (Simpson) once complained: "Every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home wine-making course and I forgot how to drive?" I think that's one of the funniest lines that I have never heard. mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:10:53 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: jm.com "facelift" ????? --- BRYAN8847@aol.com wrote: > Subject: JoniMitchell.com face lift ????? > > Absolutely. Happiness is the Best Web Site Facelift. > The idea brings up many questions and > ideas, some of which perhaps > only Jim can answer (Jim, you have our eternal > gratitude for taking over the > site, and if you are reading can you answer two > questions): > > 1. Is the site going to remain a fan-volunteer > project? > 2. Do you plan to continue operating it? > (OK, three questions) > 3. Are you planning upgrades and will you accept > assistance? I didn't respond because I know nothing about websites and don't feel it's my place to comment if I'm not able to help out. I do know it's a heckuva lot of work though and if Jim is doing it all on his own, then he probably doesn't need the extra burden. However, if there are plans to do this, I'd like to offer my 2 cents. It's probably strictly a selfish request, because I've never met another person whose eyesight was worse than mine that wasn't carrying a white cane or walking with a gorgeous dog, but my eyes have a really hard time dealing with some of the high-contrast colours (such as red type on a black background, or any light type on a black backgroun). My preference would be for some softer colours that are easier on my poor old eyes, blind as I am. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:37:30 -0500 From: "Arlene T." Subject: Re: Bush Lies - who lies? (njc) (pc) LOL - Because we have an incredible a**hole for a president. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather" To: "Lori Fye" ; ; Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:23 PM Subject: RE: Bush Lies - who lies? (njc) (pc) : <> : : Now will someone please tell me why we're not stomping our feet harder : about North Korea's recent actions?? Are we afraid of North Korea, or : of China, or is it because they don't have anything we want? : : Lori : : I was wondering the same thing this evening while watching the news. Seems : like North Korea has these concentration camps that they have long denied : having but new satellite photos reveal differently. Then the testimony of : survivors of this atrocity was very difficult to hear. So I, like you Lori, : wonder if it is because they don't have anything that we want. : : Heather : ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:40:09 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Bush Lies - who lies? (njc) (pc) Kate, I take your point. But just as we're ordinary people grappling with this, so is the American administration. They have access to more information than we do, that's all. War IS primitive, but so is this situation. You have a madman holed up in a country who won't leave and who's supported by a few hundred people around him who may cause massive bloodshed if he's attacked. Seems to me you can do one of two things: 1) leave him in power or 2) use even more force than he's got and use it fast. It's a hostage situation, except that it's a whole country he's holding, and he's not going to call down for pizza. I'm still not convinced there will be a war as such. I hope and believe American forces will invade and the Iraqi people will surrender. There will be a shooting match between Saddam's guards and the Americans, and what happens then will depend on who has access to the weapons of mass destruction and whether they'll use them -- and I would guess not because the Iraqi opposition groups have their contacts there and I'm hoping assurances will be given to these people, that they'll get safe passage out of Iraq so long as they don't resort to those weapons. Sarah From: "Kate Bennett" . . . as ordinary people, i don't think any of us have the real info at our fingertips to be able to solve this problem either way.. war is such a primitive way of achieving the goal of bringing peace to the world... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:43:26 -0500 From: "Arlene T." Subject: Re: grief njc Firstly, thanks to all for your welcoming responses. As for my personal experience with my boyfriend's suicide, which was particularly gruesome, took place in my bathroom where I had the "pleasure" of finding him, I would never have survived had it not been for my therapist at the time. And believe me, aside from this situation, she was a terrible therapist. When they took Phil out of the building in a body bag I was ready to leap out the window to join him. I continue to be traumatized. And then when 9/11 happened (I was at work 2 blocks away), all the work I thought I'd accomplished went right down with those towers. In any event, it's true that one needs to make a concerted effort to live, and to sustain hope, no matter how difficult it may seem. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Guzzi" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:45 PM Subject: Re: grief njc : Hey Jimmy, : : First of all I am very happy you were able to heal and that you got what you needed to out of : therapy. : : Thankfully I had been in therapy for years with a superb woman. Of course once I had to support : the heroin addiction of my lover's, I had to stop my own therapy due to finances. NEVER again, but : once upon a time.... : : But still I retained enough, to work through it, slow as it was. And you are correct, finding : hope or having it as unfounded as it may be many days, is what kept me alive. : : But I NEVER could have achieved that in 6 months. We were soulmates, as over used as that term is : these days. And I wet through a living hell, financially, emotionally and physically. We were : together 6 years almost to the day she died. : : I still object to her timetable, but I understand that whatever gets you through your grief is all : good. I can say that after that first year of living on the edge, and then finding all of you, : may have been the best therapy for me. I know I have been kind of reborn here and yet Robin is : still a big of who I am. Not to mention the part of me that died with her. : : It's all good now, it's all a part of my fabric. As a reverend said Sunday at a service for a : friend who passed last week, "death IS a part of life." It gets easier and easier to deal with. : Turn turn ... : : And by the way Jimmy, I wondered why the hell all those blue feathers were hanging off your ass at : fest! I figured Smurphy planted them as a prank! ;-D : : Peace, : Susan : : NPIMH: If happy little bluebirds fly above the rainbow, why oh why ... : : > Susan and Arlene, I just want to make it clear my therapist was *very* : > educated on the grieving process. She had been highly recommended, and I > went to her because : I wanted to *heal*, and she helped me very much. : > : > The grieving process can be less painful if you try to understand that loss and grief is a : natural part of life. Learn to accept your loss and believe in yourself. : : > This process isn't for everyone. As I said before, I agree with Mags that : > grieving is one's personal journey. My journey (and sessions) finally led to HOPE. I knew that I : would eventually reach a point where remembering would be less painful and I could begin to look : ahead to the future and more good times. : > : > Jimmy, who is so happy now, I have blue jays flying out of my butt : Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. : http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:53:13 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Duncan & Brady NJC In a message dated 1/15/2003 10:20:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, kimerer@taconic.net writes: > Bob -- I'm not familiar with this song. Is this a > previously unrecorded > Dylan piece? It's a traditional song...Dylan recorded it, but never released it. Read more at: http://hem.passagen.se/obrecht/backpages/chords/misc/duncan_and_brady.htm And thanks for the question, as I didn't know the answer myself and you helped me to learn! ;~) Bob NP: Dylan, "Peggy Day" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:38:00 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Music to SKi by, njc From: Deb Messling > Subject: music to ski by, NJC > > >Is it common for people to listen to Walkmen while they are skiing? Is it > >safe to do so? Won't the Walkman block the sound of the beginning skier > >screaming as she's hurtling into you? > > The reason I ask is that I'm being dragooned into a Colorado ski vacation > this February. I do not know how to ski, yet, and I don't really want to > go, but if I could have Joni playing in my ear the whole time, maybe it > would be tolerable. > > The song of my choice would be HELP ME. > Hi Deb, I suppose if it's the 1st time ever you'll probably be safe to plug the walkman only during the long ski lift rides. As far as listening while skiing, there are some 'open' headphones which don't block the outside sounds, and of course you don't have to be blasting music. Screaming beginners? No they proceed with caution. I personally wait until the hill is relatively clear so I don't get run over by the crazy young surfers. You could also take along HELP by the Beatles to complement HELP ME. Have fun Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:52:57 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Pickle Slicer, njc > Too good not to pass along... Laurent > > > Yossel Zelkovitz worked in a pickle factory. For many years he had a > > powerful desire to put his penis in the pickle slicer. Unable to stand it any longer, he sought professional help. > > > > After six months, his therapist gave up. He advised Yossel to go ahead and do it or he would probably never have any peace of mind. > > > > The next day he came home from work very early. His wife, Sarah, became > > alarmed and wanted to know what had happened. Yossel tearfully confessed his tormenting desire to put his penis in the pickle slicer. He went on to > > explain that today he finally went ahead and did it and was immediately > > fired from his job. > > > > Sarah gasped and ran over to her husband. She quickly yanked down his pants > > and boxer shorts only to find a normal, completely intact penis. > > > > She looked up and said, "I don't understand. What about the pickle slicer?" > > > > Yossel replied, "I think she got fired, too ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:59:07 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Focus NJC Colin, I love this film. It is incredibly scary. But I think they ARE Jews, but have been denying it, to each other and to everyone else. That's my memory of it anyway. I think in the end they do admit they are Jews to the police. Or else, what it may be, is that they decide they are Jews in the sense of outcasts. Maybe it's just that the characters decide to identify with the oppressed. . . decide to be THEM rather than US, because being one of US is such a vulnerable position - people can turn on you in an instant if you're not quite "right" in some way. I'm sorry about your friend, and that's very sad about your father, and about how you feel there's no 'homeland' for gays. My sense is that Canada is quite good. They're currently contemplating allowing gay marriage -- it's going to the Supreme Court because a lower court ruled recently that denying gays the right to marry was unconstitutional: most people think the Supreme Court will uphold that. I haven't heard of or read about any violence, but that may be because it's not reported. I think the point of that film is the speed with which we judge others, and how easy it is, even in a supposedly respectable community, for the bullies to start ganging up on people who are different. This can be the typical straight versus gay, gentile versus Jew, white versus black problem. But it can also be more subtle. "Normal" people versus anyone who has a different lifestyle. I used to notice it in England because I always rented houses or flats rather than buying one. This isn't a problem in London as lots of people rent, but outside London, most people own their homes, and tenants can be frowned upon in some communities (regarded as necessarily feckless, noisy etc). Many times, my new neighbours would - - during their very first conversation with me - try to sniff out whether I was a "tenant" (and therefore had to be kept an eye on), or whether I was a property owner i.e. one of them. In one street I lived, parking was very scarce, and the people opposite me (both school teachers, both liberal, who owned their house) would always park right in front of my gates, so that I couldn't use my driveway for my car, and also couldn't part outside my house. I never said anything as I didn't want the hassle. But the first time I spoke to them, they asked whether I had bought the house, and I said "yes", wondering if it would make a difference. Sure enough, the next morning, they parked their car elsewhere. So, because I had signed on the dotted mortgage line (they thought), I was entitled to park. If I was only paying an extortionate rent each month - almost certainly more than they paid for their mortgage - I could go to hell. Sarah From: colin Subject: Focus NJC I just this film, based on an Arthur Miller book (play?). It satrred William H.Macy and Laura Dern, both of them fine actors. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:22:16 EST From: Seulbzzaj@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue Opinion In a message dated 1/16/2003 3:01:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > : Every single song sounded like a dirge to me. Nothing in the slightest > : bit upbeat, every song sounded similar. >> People have been saying that about Joni for 34 years. :) Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:28:05 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Focus NJC sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > Colin, I love this film. It is incredibly scary. But I think they ARE > Jews, but have been denying it, to each other and to everyone else. no they were definately not. Or else, what it may be, is that they decide > they are Jews in the sense of outcasts. Maybe it's just that the > characters decide to identify with the oppressed. . . decide to be THEM > rather than US, yes i think that was the point My sense is that > Canada is quite good. I certainly liked Canada when iw as htere(briefly). The amosphere wa sveyr different to over the border. I loved the space too. They're currently contemplating allowing gay > marriage -- it's going to the Supreme Court because a lower court ruled > recently that denying gays the right to marry was unconstitutional: most > people think the Supreme Court will uphold that. I haven't heard of or > read about any violence, but that may be because it's not reported. mmm...they are supposed to be doing so here-or at elats giving us the same next of kin and pension rights. However it won't really make much difference to the genral attitude and the feeling of not belonging. Everything from tv to the media to novels and everything tends to leave us out-unless we are included for tragedy or comdy pruposes. > > I think the point of that film is the speed with which we judge others, > and how easy it is, even in a supposedly respectable community, for the > bullies to start ganging up on people who are different. This can be > the typical straight versus gay, gentile versus Jew, white versus black > problem. But it can also be more subtle. and jews vs , and blacks vs, and gays vs--- people will always find somoen to feel superior too until they find their wholeness within them. if that day comes, people won;t need someone to hate. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:32:56 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Film about Middle East FYI (njc, pc) Laughing in the face of terror (Filed: 16/01/2003) The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the unlikely subject of one of the funniest films of the moment. SF Said talks to its director, Elia Suleiman Divine Intervention is like no other film you've ever seen. One part silent comedy, one part art movie, one part political dynamite, it has earned its writer-director-star, Elia Suleiman, comparisons with the great comedians of cinema, giants such as Buster Keaton and Jacques Tati. But, while it's one of the funniest films around, it's also a lot more than that. Elia Suleiman: has faced misunderstanding and trouble from all sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict Released here tomorrow, it won two prizes at Cannes last summer, establishing Suleiman as one of the world's leading film-makers. A 42-year-old Palestinian, he is self-taught, and this is only his second film. Yet already he shows a fully formed, wholly original cinematic sensibility. "I never studied film," he says. "I hadn't seen Tati or Keaton until after I made my first feature. I left school when I was 17; I was a street kid, doing nothing. But then I went to New York, and for a year I did nothing but read books and see films, three films a day sometimes." Perhaps this is why Divine Intervention looks and feels like nothing else . It is a mosaic of beautifully composed tableaux about Palestinian life under Israeli rule. Suleiman is not interested in the speech-making and slogans that dominate Middle East politics. He is fascinated, instead, by the absurd and surreal; by the little and not-so-little bits of human business that never make it on to the news about the Middle East. The very first scene of the film shows Santa Claus being mugged by some children on a Nazareth hill-top. It's ridiculous, and hilarious - - until you ask yourself what it might mean. "I think it works because it announces from the beginning the inner violence of Nazareth," says Suleiman. "Something must be really wrong in this place. After that, you can understand why nobody speaks, why there's this total disintegration of all social communication." All the characters in Divine Intervention move around in a precise, poker-faced choreography in which things are forever going wrong. People wait for buses that never come. Grumpy old men stab children's footballs. Characters nurse spectacular fantasies of revenge and violence that only highlight their impotence in real life. These scenes found their way from Suleiman's notebooks into his film. "I carry notebooks everywhere I go," he explains. "I write all sorts of things in them - all the realities I pass through. If I see some sort of potential choreography in a daily banality, it tickles me, so I note it because it's funny." What makes Divine Intervention not just comic but genuinely important is the resonance such scenes have when you put them all together. They raise searching questions about the Palestine situation, not in any kind of hectoring way, but through their humour and open-ended texture. Suleiman was born and grew up in Nazareth, which has been part of the state of Israel since 1948. Although he has lived abroad, and has strong connections with the film-making worlds of Paris and New York, his work is firmly rooted in Palestinian experience. Divine Intervention's central preoccupation is peace and how the lack of it poisons people's lives, their relationships, even their dreams. But, as a maker of art not propaganda, Suleiman has faced misunderstanding and trouble from all sides. It started with his first film, Chronicle of a Disappearance, which won the prize for best debut at Venice in 1996, yet was tabooed in the Arab world. "Even now," he says, "I read an article in the Arab press, criticising Divine Intervention for being ironic and not respecting the Palestinians." Equally, he has run into repeated obstruction from the Israeli authorities. After endless difficulties making Chronicle of a Disappearance, he delegated the job of obtaining the necessary permissions for Divine Intervention to an Israeli friend. "He set up a sort of front company and got the permissions," says Suleiman. "They wouldn't have given it to me." The cast and crew of Divine Intervention included both Arabs and Israelis. Ironically, however, neither Arab nor Israeli money went into it. The film was financed mainly from France, and it was made even as bloody conflict was raging between Israelis and Palestinians. "We had a very insecure time," he says. "We couldn't start shooting because the Israelis were shooting. They were occupying our decor, and putting their own decor. We didn't always manage. The Israeli police came and broke the set a couple of times. They were disturbed by the humour." The last scene in the film is perhaps the most eloquent. It's a simple, static shot of a pressure cooker sitting atop an oven, accompanied by the words: "That's enough: stop it now." Does he think there is any hope for peace between Israelis and Palestinians? "The only way I can see it working is if Israel becomes just another normal secular democratic state," he says. "Similarly, when people ask me what it means to have a Palestinian state, I think it means the end of occupation. I'm uninterested in anything called national, but I think there is an absolute need for a Palestinian state, simply because it means the soldier and the tank are no longer at the doorstep, and the children can go to school." Despite all the difficulties, Suleiman got his film made and is now winning over audiences around the world. There have been no screenings yet in Palestinian or Israeli cities, because of the conflict. "At the New York Film Festival," he says, "I was worried after September 11 that a Palestinian film might be booed before it's seen. Some of the audience were Jewish, and some had affiliation to the state of Israel. But my preconceptions were proved utterly wrong: it was a great response. I know it sound presumptuous, but I think the film criss-crossed boundaries. That's what cinema can do; maybe that's what laughter can achieve." 16 November 2002: The human face of Islam [Islamic film makers] 23 May 2002: About an old boy [Divine Intervention at the Cannes Festival] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:33:37 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: re: music to ski by, NJC I agree with Jimmy. Especially since it will be your first time, don't even think about bringing a walkman to the slopes. You'll be using all your concentration to get down the slope! BUT, before you strap on the ol' planks, have you considred snowboarding??? ;-) Are there any other boarders out there in Joniland besides me? > The song of my choice would be HELP ME. This cracked me up! "Help me, I think I'm falling..." I hope you have a great time! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:42:20 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: facelift for jonimitchell.com? Could the JMDLer who mentioned the Meryl Streep site please share the URL. I've done a search and have come up with a bunch of different site. Not sure which one you mean. And to Les (Hi Les!), if Jim wants to update/revamp the JM site, what do you think about using includes and templates in ColdFusion? (which I still call "ConFusion" but oh well...) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:01:12 +0000 From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: DJRD cover There's been a discussion recently about the DJRD cover. That reminded me that some time ago in a book about Alex Steinweiss's design body of work for album covers from the '40 to the '60, I found a picture of an album cover for Stravinsky's Le sacre du Printemps. Now, if you look at that cover you might recognize perhaps the source of inspiration for Joni's cover. I have uploaded the picture on the following address: http://www.raffaelemalanga.com/img/le_sacre_du_printemps.jpg I'd love to hear what you think about it. Raffaele - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:09:18 EST From: MARBOLI79@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #33 I'd like to give a response to Arlene T. I'm 22 and am French and, here in France, Joni Mitchell remains mostly unknown, above all amongst the young generation. However, everyone here knows that song by Janet Jackson using a sample from Big Yellow Taxi (the chorus of the song, actually), but no-one could say who sings it. Well, it is easy to find her albums in record stores, but there's no diffusion at all. I first got my attention to her when I watched the Isle of Wight concert, broadcast on TV a few years go, and where Joni, dressed in yellow, cried before singing. Then, I borrowed in a library the Blue album, then the Court & Spark album. And that was it : I loved both. Then, I borrowed Both Sides Now (2000) and did not liked it very much (like you, Arlene, that voice!). Then I bought Hejira, Mingus, The Hissing of the Summer Lawns, Clouds, etc. She had such an influence !! I bought "Travelogue" and the least that I can say is that it is one of the best albums I have ever listened to. The rearrangements of the three Hejira songs (Amelia, Hejira, Refuge of the Roads) are so beautiful ! And The Sire of Sorrow, Chinese Cafe, Woodstock, etc. !!! No upbeat tempo here, but 22 great songs I can tell ! At nearly sixty, she cannot swing like she used to do before. She turns to philarmonic jazz, and that's all natural considering her career. Yours faithfully, Laurent. (marboli79@aol.com) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:11:23 +0000 From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: Re: JoniMitchell.com face lift Well, I'd love to give a little help if at some point Jim decides to revamp the JoniMitchell.com site. I work in web design and although things get a bit hectic at times, I could put some time aside. Raffaele >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:20:07 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: JoniMitchell.com face lift I was having a browse through jonimitchell.com this evening and was overwhelmed by the wealth of information contained on the site! I've done a bit of transcribing for Wally, as well as Jim Johanson, (Hi Jim, if you're here!) and have contributed some content, but never really explored, in depth, all that there is to explore on that site. It's astounding to me! Having said that, I personally think that the site needs a facelift, or some sort of image change. I know that Jim feels the same way since he mentioned it to me once. I think the site would be wonderful if it was modeled after something like Meryl Streep's website, which is also designed by a fan: http://www.merylstreeponline.net I think it's so beautiful and so classy, streamlined and clear. I wonder if something can be done to improve the look of JM.com and give it the understated glamour and class of the artist it honours. Have a peek at Meryl Streep Online, even if you dislike the actress, and see if you can visualize a similar site dedicated to Joni. - - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ get 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:43:47 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Re: Pickle Slicer, njc LOL!!!!! I will never be able to buy pickles again without laughing. Thanks a lot:) Kasey > Too good not to pass along... Laurent > > > Yossel Zelkovitz worked in a pickle factory. For many years he had a > > powerful desire to put his penis in the pickle slicer. Unable to stand it any longer, he sought professional help. > > > > After six months, his therapist gave up. He advised Yossel to go ahead and do it or he would probably never have any peace of mind. > > > > The next day he came home from work very early. His wife, Sarah, became > > alarmed and wanted to know what had happened. Yossel tearfully confessed his tormenting desire to put his penis in the pickle slicer. He went on to > > explain that today he finally went ahead and did it and was immediately > > fired from his job. > > > > Sarah gasped and ran over to her husband. She quickly yanked down his pants > > and boxer shorts only to find a normal, completely intact penis. > > > > She looked up and said, "I don't understand. What about the pickle slicer?" > > > > Yossel replied, "I think she got fired, tooGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:37:23 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: Re: facelift for jonimitchell.com? - ----- Original Message ----- From: > Could the JMDLer who mentioned the Meryl Streep site that was Andrew. > please share the URL. I've done a search and have come > up with a bunch of different site. Not sure which one > you mean. He DID share the URL. It is: http://www.merylstreeponline.net moni ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:43:30 -0600 From: Subject: RE: Bush lies--who lies? NJC, PC Sarah wrote: "I'm not familar with ANSWER. I'll take a look at their website. It doesn't surprise me that the anti-war movement is basically Marxist." Sarah, I've learned a lot from much that you've written, but to call the anti-war movement (if there is such a thing) "basically Marxist" seems like a HUGE leap to me. I am much more familiar with individuals, churches, and other community organizations simply deciding, on their own, that for various reasons, they can't support this war. They don't need prodding from a deep, dark conspiracy. Why is that so difficult for some to accept? Sarah also wrote: "I have to say that I don't understand the morality of the Left when it opposes a war like this." Well. . . 1) Some of us have problems with the U.S., or a small group of nations, serving as the "world's policeman." Who appointed this group, under what legal or moral authority? 2) The West preaches democracy, and them interferes consistently in the internal affairs of others. Yes, here we're talking about the internal affairs of a dictatorship, but at what point does the means taint whatever good end may be accomplished? 3) The further loss of innocent life. 4) The timing and location: why Iraq? Why now? To some of us, this seems to be more about politics-as-usual than about solving a problem. 5) The hypocrisy of the "weapons of mass destruction" argument (slippery phrase, by the way. What exactly does it mean?). Which nations have the most "weapons of mass destruction"? What if some othe nation, or cadre of nations, decided to regulate THEM (us)? Who decides, and based on what? And, by no means least, 6) The slippery slope that's being created by the U.S., perhaps aided by some allies, launching a preemptive first strike against a nation that *it believes* has weapons that it *may* use irresponsibly. First strikes have never been official U.S. policy: at least, not for major actions. Why start now? Is this threat that much removed, categorically, from all others that the U.S. and other Western nations have faced? And it is, where's the proof? Is there ANYTHING that Iraq could do to convince the U.S. and its allies that it doesn't have what it's thought to have? I think not. I hear a lot of bluster from our leaders and administration, but not a lot of (current) FACTS. I'm sure that that doesn't exhaust the list, but I'd start there. Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:22:49 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: DJRD cover I think if you took a giant leap..like from the south rim to the north rim of the Grand Canyon..maybe? In all seriousness..could you tell us what you see in this cover to think maybe what inspired Joni for DJRD? I'm not artsy..but I will eventually get something. Splain? Bree.. now staring at DJRD cover ... >here's been a discussion recently about the DJRD cover. Now, if you look at >that cover you might recognize perhaps the source of >inspiration for Joni's cover. > >I have uploaded the picture on the following address: >http://www.raffaelemalanga.com/img/le_sacre_du_printemps.jpg > >I'd love to hear what you think about it. > >Raffaele > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:32:13 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: music to ski by, NJC i agree 100%...its important to hear who is behind you...& where they in relation to you & how skilled they are...you definately need all your senses concentrating on what you are doing... >>Deb, as an average skier who ski's about once a year, I'll tell you DEFINITELY DON'T TAKE A WALKMAN!!!! It's extremely dangerous. << ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:42:46 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: RE: Bush lies--who lies? NJC, PC Hi Mary, Regarding the Marxist quote from me: I was answering a point about the ANSWER website, which I still haven't looked at. I should have said: it wouldn't surprise me if there was a lot of Marxist/Socialist Worker organization behind some anti-war actions. I didn't mean to imply that all anti-war campaigners are Marxists. To address your points: Mary wrote: >1) Some of us have problems with the U.S., or a small group of >nations, serving as the "world's policeman." Who appointed this >group, under what legal or moral authority? When America was attacked on September 11, it earned the right to defend itself, and defence can be pre-emptive. It makes no sense to say that America was attacked by al-Qaeda and therefore can't defend itself by attacking Iraq. Al-Qaeda is not a terrorist group or a nation-state. It's an umbrella term for a number of related activist groups loosely associated with Islamic fundamentalism. These and other terrorist groups are financed by a number of governments. Iraq is one of them. No "smoking gun" evidence has been revealed of, say, a meeting between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, but there are hundreds of intelligence reports of a relationship between Iraq and fundamentalist groups, prior to and since September 11. Iraq is also a major supporter of the Palestinian rejectionist groups, including Abu Nidal, PFLP, PFLP-GC, PLF, Hamas and others. All this gives America, in my view, the moral authority to act as "world policeman" when it comes to terrorism. Many would argue -- not only the moral right, but a duty. >Mary wrote: >2) The West preaches democracy, and them interferes consistently in >the internal affairs of others. Yes, here we're talking about the >internal affairs of a dictatorship, but at what point does the means >taint whatever good end may be accomplished? Yes, the means can taint the end, and I take that point and agree with it. But in this limited case of Iraq - we can't tell a man who is hanging upside down in an acid bath, or a woman who is being gang-raped by prison wardens in front of her husband and children, or a prisoner who is being kept in a morgue container for months on end with only 30 minutes daylight each 24 hours - that - yes, sorry, we could rescue you, but it would mean INTERFERING and that would "taint the end" i.e. would make your rescue somehow not worth it. The situation in Iraq is so appalling that there is very little America could do that would taint the end. And anyway, to talk of ends is to be a moral consequentialist, and I would say that's problematic in itself. Mary wrote: >3) The further loss of innocent life. Yes, point taken again. All we can do is hope that the Iraqis surrender quickly and I think they will. There would have been a loss of innocent life had the Allies bombed the concentration camps during WW2. Yet Jewish groups were begging them to do this, for obvious reasons. I believe this is a similar situation. Mary wrote: >4) The timing and location: why Iraq? Why now? To some of us, >this seems to be more about politics-as-usual than about solving a >problem. Why Iraq and why now? Because Saddam supports terrorism. Because he has weapons of mass destruction. Because Iraq is (potentially, I believe) the second largest oil supplier in the world. Because he is torturing his people. Because he has destroyed Iraq's economy. Because there is now, for the first time, a halfway credible opposition and they are begging for war. Because there is evidence of financial complicity in September 11. Because the last thing the world needs is a devil's pact between Saddam and the Islamic extremists. Saddam was only ever kept in power by the West as a bulwark against the Islamists: if he's no longer offering that, he's put himself out of business. And because, with Tony Blair and George Bush supporting each other, there is the will to do something. For all these reasons, now is the time. >Mary wrote: >5) The hypocrisy of the "weapons of mass destruction" argument >(slippery phrase, by the way. What exactly does it mean?). Which >nations have the most "weapons of mass destruction"? What if some >othe nation, or cadre of nations, decided to regulate THEM (us)? >Who decides, and based on what? Based on who is abiding by the rule of law. Based on who can be trusted not to use them, or to use them only defensively. Based on which countries are democracies. You seem to be saying there's no choosing between America, UK, Europe on the one hand, and Iraq, N. Korea, Libya, Iran on the other. But there's a huge moral difference between these countries. Weapons of mass destruction is not, as I see it, a slippery phrase. These are weapons which can cause massive casualties: nuclear, chemical and biological. Take the germ warfare program as an example. This has been developed by Rihab Taha, an Iraqi woman with a British PhD. She has ADMITTED to producing 19,000 litres of botulism toxin and 8,500 litres of anthrax. One tiny drop of either would kill a healthy adult. This is only what she has admitted to making. In 1988 alone, Iraq imported 39 tons of growth media -- 17 tons of which remain unaccounted for. Growth media is a mixture of sugar, proteins and minerals that allows microscopic life to grow. It has a legitimate use in hospitals where swabs are placed in the mixture for diagnostic purposes. Iraq's consumption of growth media in hospitals was just 200 kg a year according to UNSCOM. So what has it done with the missing 17 tons? Taha has also admitted making aflatoxin, which causes liver failure; ricin, a castor bean derivative which impedes circulation and causes lung damage; and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene, a flesh-rotting disease. She also led research on foot and mouth disease, cholera, salmonella and the Plague, as well as a virus that kills children by causing diahorrea, another virus that causes the eyes to bleed and - most worryingly - camel pox, believed by intelligence agencies to have been used as a model for smallpox, as camel pox is safer for the scientists to work with, but uses the same growth medium as smallpox. Three million smallpox particles would fit onto the period at the end of this sentence, yet just one is enough to infect someone. In 1990, just after the invasion of Kuwait, Saddam ordered Taha to find a way to load these viruses onto rockets and bombs. She did this, producing around 155 biological bombs within the following few months. Again, this is only the number she has admitted to producing. That is what is meant by "weapons of mass destruction". Mary wrote: >6) The slippery slope that's being created by the U.S., perhaps >aided by some allies, launching a preemptive first strike against a >nation that *it believes* has weapons that it *may* use >irresponsibly. First strikes have never been official U.S. policy: >at least, not for major actions. Why start now? Is this threat >that much removed, categorically, from all others that the U.S. and >other Western nations have faced? And it is, where's the proof? Is >there ANYTHING that Iraq could do to convince the U.S. and its >allies that it doesn't have what it's thought to have? I think not. The U.S. and UK have the proof, but they're not making it public because they would endanger their sources. This isn't bluster. They have some good human sources in Iraq who are invaluable and who are risking their lives, and they don't want them to die. The US is helping Blix, has just started to, and is going to do it slowly, to see whether he can be trusted. But it isn't hard to work out what some of the proof is, Mary. Most of the parts, equipment, viruses, growth media etc have been supplied by the West, most notably Germany. So it's just a question of asking these companies what they supplied. How do you disarm Saddam, if not by a first strike? Wait until he's sent a nuclear bomb to Tel Aviv? A question for you: what facts would convince you that this is a just war? Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:11:36 -0600 From: Subject: Just war (NJC) Sarah wrote, in her very comprehensive and thought-provoking response: "A question for you: what facts would convince you that this is a just war?" It's very simple: a clear, undisputed link between Iraq and the terrorist attacks against the U.S. on September 11, 2001, or a much more foreful statement than any I have heard from those in the know that such a link exists, but that sources can't be revealed for obvious reasons. I can accept that, even though it's asking ordinary citizens to take quite a lot on faith. But I'm looking for a nexis. I just don't see one. The attack against our country was a horrific thing, and it goes without saying that it gives the U.S. the right to defend itself. What it does not give us is the right (I would say, the excuse) to launch attacks against *other* enemies we have had in the past, or who we may regret not finishing off years ago, when we had the chance. And it does not give the U.S. carte blanche to attack another nation, whose link to the September 11 attacks is unclear at best, in order to further its own domestic and international agenda. To me, such action cheapens the memories and lives of all those who lost their lives that day, and is a travesty. There. I've felt that for a long time. Now I've finally said it. Mary. P.S. If you have additional information that might make such a link clearer, I'd certainly be happy to read it. If you've already posted this information to the list (I haven't kept up much in the past week), no need to re-post: just refer me to the date of the post in question. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:53:51 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Smoking gun? njc Sorry, everyone, forgot to put njc on that last post. Sarah sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: U.N. Experts Report Chemical Warheads Find in Iraq Reuters Thursday, January 16, 2003; 12:56 PM BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.N. weapons inspectors found empty chemical warheads during an inspection of a storage area in Iraq on Thursday, a U.N. spokesman said in Baghdad. The spokesman, Hiro Ueki, did not give any estimate of the significance of the find during an inspection of the Ukhaider Ammunition Storage Area. He said an inspection team had gone there to inspect a large group of bunkers constructed in the late 1990s. "During the course of their inspection, the team discovered 11 empty 122 mm chemical warheads and one warhead that requires further evaluation," Ueki said in a statement. "The warheads were in excellent condition and were similar to ones imported by Iraq during the late 1980s. The team used portable X-Ray equipment to conduct preliminary analysis of one of the warheads and collected samples for chemical testing," the statement said. There was no immediate comment from the Iraqi side. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:53:50 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: NAMM (NJC) Paz wrote: > Can't wait to see all my So. Cal. > Buddies starting with Dulson picking me up taking me out... I'm on my way to the airport! I took the whole day off work...I just hope I can keep up with the Paz Man - it seems we never stopped RUNNING around the convention center last NAMM. :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:52:56 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Smoking gun? U.N. Experts Report Chemical Warheads Find in Iraq Reuters Thursday, January 16, 2003; 12:56 PM BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.N. weapons inspectors found empty chemical warheads during an inspection of a storage area in Iraq on Thursday, a U.N. spokesman said in Baghdad. The spokesman, Hiro Ueki, did not give any estimate of the significance of the find during an inspection of the Ukhaider Ammunition Storage Area. He said an inspection team had gone there to inspect a large group of bunkers constructed in the late 1990s. "During the course of their inspection, the team discovered 11 empty 122 mm chemical warheads and one warhead that requires further evaluation," Ueki said in a statement. "The warheads were in excellent condition and were similar to ones imported by Iraq during the late 1980s. The team used portable X-Ray equipment to conduct preliminary analysis of one of the warheads and collected samples for chemical testing," the statement said. There was no immediate comment from the Iraqi side. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #34 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)