From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #33 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, January 16 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 033 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The 100 songs that changed the world NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Bush Lies - who lies? (njc) (pc) ["kakki" ] Re: Truly madly deeply njc [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Truly madly deeply njc [colin ] What Dreams May Come NJC [colin ] grief njc [colin ] Re: Bush Lies - who lies? (njc) (pc) [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Bush Lies - who lies? (njc) (pc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni/JT BBC Concert FOUND [Jason Wong ] joni concert, detroit, 1974 [Jkp1953@aol.com] Re: joni concert, detroit, 1974 ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: grief njc ["Arlene T." ] Apologies ["Arlene T." ] SJC Downhill skiing tracks for the piste and Tom Waits ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Joni/JT BBC Concert FOUND/SCJoniguy content [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: Travelogue Opinion [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: grief njc [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni/JT BBC Concert FOUND/SCJoniguy content [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: grief njc [colin ] Re: joni concert, detroit, 1974 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] affirmative action njc pc [colin ] Re: Travelogue Opinion [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] music to ski by, NJC [Deb Messling ] My Epiphany ["Blair Fraipont" ] Duncan & Brady [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: music to ski by, NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: music to ski by, NJC ["hell" ] RE: Bush Lies - who lies? (njc) (pc) ["Heather" ] Re: grief njc [Susan Guzzi ] NAMM (NJC) [Michael Paz ] JoniMitchell.com face lift [Little Bird ] Today's Library Links: January 16 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:04:08 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: The 100 songs that changed the world NJC In a message dated 1/15/2003 3:29:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Lots of those songs that I've never heard. Glad to see that YOUR personal favorite "Me So Horny" made the top 100! ;~)>> Yep! "I'm a freak in heat, a dog without warning My appetite is sex, 'cause me so horny" < > You're right Bob! No.22 on the list, Afrika Bambaataa and the Soul Sonic Force "Planet Rock", reminds me of the first time I ever went to a gay dance club. (and nobody better say anything rude like "I would have thought it was The Shirelles "Soldier Boy" :~) ) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:44:40 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Bush Lies - who lies? (njc) (pc) Sarah, I'veenjoyed your posts and agree with most of what you have written. I know that the situation in Iraq that you have articulated many times concurs with everything I've read and heard going back to the early 90s. I know that the assertions of atrocities and weapons capabilities are not some new propaganda that has been suddenly manufactured as a pretext for war. Many Iraqis who have escaped to the U.S. have been telling these stories for years. However, you have mentioned a few times about the CIA being "anti-democracy" and this assertion is a new and perplexing one for me. I see the CIA as merely a government agency. I can't see that it has its own independent agenda on foreign policy. While they may well be some rogue agents and a competition with the other security agencies such as the FBI and NSA, the CIA is essentially directed by whatever administration is in power in the White House. Are you basing this position on the article in Vanity Fair where the INC contends that the CIA basically abandoned them in their fight to overcome Saddam? Most of the anti-war demonstrations going on in the US have been organized by openly declared Marxist organizations. ANSWER has been the prime mover in organizing the protests since nearly the day after 9/11. Are you familiar with them? If you go to their website, there are several links to organizations such as "Communist Workers of America," "American Communist Party," and the like. ANSWER tried to link more mainstream organizations affiliated with religious groups to their movement and there has been much controversy and objection from some of those organizations which have been unwittingly linked to them. There are certain anti-war church organizations and also a faction in the Libertarian party which is anti-war which have been trying to disassociate themselves from the Marxist anti-war organizations. Are you saying that the CIA has set all this up (the ANSWER affiliated groups) as a ruse behind the scenes? I'm just curious as to what information you may have on this. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:31:28 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Truly madly deeply njc Lucy, I was reading your post, thinking "this woman should be a writer", because your writing is so good, and then you wrote that you were - so I'm glad! I hope you DON'T get rejected. Do you have any of your material published, that we could read? I love that film What Dreams May Come too. Sarah From: "Lucy Hone" Nearer the point (maybe) about how grief affects people is to be found in WHAT DREAMS MAY COME... I write poetry and short stories (am girding myself for rejection time again!!!..any one know an agent? ) and find the best flow of words is when either in love or bereft... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:47:14 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Truly madly deeply njc also thanks to Colin for his message yesterday > about "how to deal with grief". > That was not the intention of what i wrote. I justw rote my thoughts on grief. It certainly is not a recipe for anyone for dealing with grief. It si not my thing to tell people how they shoudl deal with anything. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:49:48 +0000 From: colin Subject: What Dreams May Come NJC This film shows precisely what i eman about our 'minds' creating our place after death. Robin Williams' wife was where she was precisely because of the way she was thinking. She allowed herself to be touched by her husbands love for ehr and she was able to 'grow out' of where she was. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:51:30 +0000 From: colin Subject: grief njc My thoughts about grief were not meant to be solely about grief over the death of a loved one. Grief is experienced over many losses and death is just one of them. Grief is grief tho, no matter what the cause. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:52:01 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Bush Lies - who lies? (njc) (pc) Hi Kakki, No, I'm not saying the CIA has been involved in anti-war protests. Wouldn't surprise me, but no, I have no information on this. I know only that the Arabists in the CIA and its equivalent in the UK - - M16 - have long opposed the idea of installing a democratic government in Iraq, or in any of the other Arab states. They want the status quo to remain. The British in particular are anxious to see that the families THEY installed as rulers are allowed to remain in power. And there is a general fear of what will happen to oil prices if there is instability in the oil-rich states. There's also a sense of "better the devil you know", and the Arabists all know the ruling families, and have great sources, and stay in palaces when they visit etc etc. It's a small, very cliquey world, consisting of Arab ambassadors, Arab princes, Western intelligence officers, politicians, journalists, academics and businessmen. I would guess there are probably no more than 200 serious players who are deciding the future of the Middle East, and they want to be left alone to do it. The CIA controls intelligence in America (not entirely, but almost), and so it controls the flow of information as to who should/should not be funded or otherwise supported. That was the point the Vanity Fair article was making. The CIA doesn't like the Iraqi National Congress, so the INC have had problems getting money, getting to see people etc. So sure, the CIA doesn't control government policy. But they can manipulate who is taken seriously and so they do influence policy enormously. It's only when something like September 11 happens that people in the American government - the Pentagon, for example - say "right, screw the CIA, I want to speak to these sources (groups, whatever it is) directly and judge them for myself". Actually, I think I probably agree with the CIA's assessment of the INC to some extent. The INC does seem to have some "flexible" players as part of its set-up. But this is inevitable in an opposition group like this, and the bottom line is they are a thousand times better than Saddam, so I feel we should give them a chance. I'm not familar with ANSWER. I'll take a look at their website. It doesn't surprise me that the anti-war movement is basically Marxist. I have to say that I don't understand the morality of the Left when it opposes a war like this. The most telling thing I heard is that, in London, anti-war campaigners refuse to allow any Iraqis to speak at their meetings (even though there are hundreds of Iraqi exiles living in London) in case they say the "wrong" thing i.e. appeal for war. That says it all for me. Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:59:21 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Bush Lies - who lies? (njc) (pc) >>Sarah asked: To everyone who thinks we shouldn't go to war against Saddam - please explain how else you would get rid of him<< the same question could be asked of those who favor war... however as ordinary people, i don't think any of us have the real info at our fingertips to be able to solve this problem either way.. war is such a primitive way of achieving the goal of bringing peace to the world...now that we are actually inside this country that our leaders talk of waging war on, i would think that those who have the power to make such decisions could use their intelligence & creativity to find an alternative way of ousting saddam...unfortunately i'm not sure that the bush team wants an alternative to the war machine they are familiar with.... we live in a world where we can travel to other planets, clone living things, communicate via the internet, etc....surely the same intelligence can be applied to solving this type of situation....think of all the money & human power it takes to wage a war...take all that & apply it to the aforementioned ... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:18:32 +0000 From: colin Subject: Focus NJC I just this film, based on an Arthur Miller book (play?). It satrred William H.Macy and Laura Dern, both of them fine actors. It is set in during ww2 in NYC. Macy and Dern paly characters who are mistaken for jews and are persecuted by the O. Crusaders. It is very interesting for the fact that these two are not jews. It is a clever way of bringing points home. In the end they tho they identify themselfves as jews(even tho they are not). Redemption. I haven't seen a movie like this for a while and won't agian for a while. I find them too upsetting. I often wonder who these films are made for. I cannot imagine bigots watching it let alone being moved by it. ( in one scene they watching a film at the cinema and it is obvious that on screen jews are being rounded up and killed. someone calls out somthing like 'not the children',and a man in the audience stands up and yells'why not, they're Jews aren't they?). I know imtimately what this sort of hatred does to people. what it does to the hater and the pain caused to the hated. I witnessed the murder of my best friend, aged 7, in a racist killing. The small town I lived in Aussie beat a boy half to death becasue he was gay. he left town. That made me feel really comfortable to live there! I left that town too but only because my whole family did and it had nothing to do with that incident. My father would not have defended him. He was strange. This illustrates his oddness, for me anyway: I got to know some people, adults, a woman and her gay friends. I was 15 and finally I got to know people like me. Anyway some how or other thislady introduced a very camp man to my parents and we all went on a barbecue. During it, this man told of how he had survived the concentration camps.this moved my father almost to tears. The man went onto with his story. about how he had finally been reunited with what was left of his family and how they had all, bar none, rejected him because he was gay. My father, who had beaten his 'cissy' sons, said that he wasn't surprised they had rejected him as he was such an embarrassment, or words to that effect. No tears now, only contempt. I find that odd. Most of the people I know are racist/homphobic. However, these people are on the outer fringes of my life. you have to deal with people. However, one of my dearest friends is a racist. She knows I feel differently to her. But I love her anyway. She was the ONLY person, who lived near me, that was there for me when the chips were down when i got sick and when the homophic crap that eventually forced us to leave where we lived got out of control. In my younger more idealistic days, I would have said that i would never have a racist as a friend. (she had odd ideas about gays too).She lives bang in the middle of a hot spot for racist trouble. She balmes the wrong people. Would I support her in that? No and she knows it. But we still lvoe eachother. Nothing is ever black and white. Fortunately where I now live is peaceful. it is rife with the same attitudes tho. However, we are left in peace. It is safe to walk the streets. No one puts bricks thru our windwos, no one yells obscenities at us, no one assualts us. But I know exactly where I stand with most of these people, i am not a fool. There is not a place on this earth where it would be different, no haven, no homeland, no home. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:21:59 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Wong Subject: Joni/JT BBC Concert FOUND Hi All, SCJoniguy has helped me out on my search for the Joni/JT concert. Thanks to the group for helping me find a replacement copy. Especially SCJoniguy. Cheers, Jason Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:22:45 EST From: Jkp1953@aol.com Subject: joni concert, detroit, 1974 lurking and lurking. new to the jmdl since this new year, i decided it was time to launch out of lurkdom. joni is a genius, and i'm delighted to find a connection to others who have a similar opinion. my most memorable joni concert was august 8th, 1974. the venue was known as 'pine knob music theatre', about 25 miles north of detroit. this was a very historic evening in america. after much anticipation, joni came on stage to a roaring crowd and sat down to her piano. i think my seats were about tenth row, center, front. the very first thing she said was this: "richard nixon has just resigned." i will never forget it. all of us sensed the 'moment in time', especially joni. she maintained a very celebratory mood the entire performance. she seemed to be having a real good time, almost as if she were hosting a rather large party. the venue being detroit, of course she sang 'the last time i saw richard'. the interesting thing here; her approach to that song was totally playful and comical. the line that begins with ..........richard, you haven't really changed..............well, she started that with "richard...............oh, richard..............i said richard". it was obvious she was not in a mood to be that serious and her tone was close to making fun of her own drama. also, she sang the barmaid's line exactly as she does on travelogue, in that nagging whine, "drink up now, it's gettin' on time to close". quite different than the way it's recorded on blue. that's my story. i hope one or two of you enjoyed it. i've been a joni devotee for 32 years now. many of you are not even that old, but that's fine. last item here. thanks to those of you who dissected rockwell's review. what a subjective bunch of garbage. it seems through the years, many of joni's reviews have been written by people who just don't "get" it. self-indulgent, self-aggrandising,and the like,are merely repetitive tags placed by those who fail to comprehend the originality of her work. sorry for the lengthy debut. love's the greatest beauty. ( jm ) janet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:47:17 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: joni concert, detroit, 1974 Well..you know that at least one enjoyed your post. :-) And..yes..I hate to do it..but you know there maybe more. Welcome and thanks for sharing. I loved the "Oh, Richard....I said Richard." (love that Joni!) Bree >that song was totally playful and comical. the line that begins with >..........richard, you haven't really changed..............well, she >started >that with "richard...............oh, richard..............i said richard". >it was obvious she was not in a mood to be that serious and her tone was >close to making fun of her own drama. also, she sang the barmaid's line >exactly as she does on travelogue, in that nagging whine, "drink up now, >it's >gettin' on time to close". quite different than the way it's recorded on >blue. that's my story. i hope one or two of you enjoyed it. sorry >for the lengthy debut. love's the greatest beauty. ( jm ) >janet _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:22:20 -0500 From: "Arlene T." Subject: Travelogue Opinion : This is my first contribution to this list, so please be kind. : : I've been a rabid Joni fan since childhood, and even when she : went through some experimental phases that I didn't particularly : like, even when she (in my humble opinion) ruined her vocal range : through smoking, I bought the albums to support her efforts. This especially : applied to "Both Sides Now", which I can barely listen to. : : I've now had the opportunity on the Joni website to listen to samples : of her new CD "Travelogue". I may be in the minority here, but man! : Every single song sounded like a dirge to me. Nothing in the slightest : bit upbeat, every song sounded similar. With so many wonderful : songs to choose from in this world, Joni appears to have decided : that only the most morose, plodding tunes are suitable for her. : I can't bring myself to purchase it. : : Again, please be gentle with me. Surely there's someone out there : who agrees with me just a little tiny bit! : : Arlene : ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:25:50 -0500 From: "Arlene T." Subject: Re: grief njc Interesting....I lost my boyfriend to suicide several years ago. At no time did my therapist give me a time frame for grieving (I would have fired her if she had). Grief is an individual thing. Sometimes we never get over these things. Nothing personal, but I think that therapist needs to get some serious education on the grieving process. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 1:23 PM Subject: Re: grief njc : When I was seeing a therapist a couple of years ago, she told me that as a : rule of thumb, for "each" year someone was a part of your life, it takes the : same number of months for the grieving process. i.e. If you and your spouse : or partner were together for 24 years, you could expect to be grieving for 24 : months. This is not to say that 2 years later you would still be crying your : eyes out constantly. It means that 2 years from now, you could see something : that reminded you of that person and it would be perfectly natural for you to : start crying. : : It made sense to me, but it was her rule of thumb, not mine. Like you said : Mags, grief is a personal journey. : : Jimmy : np Puddle of Mudd "Blurry" : ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:29:19 -0500 From: "Arlene T." Subject: Apologies I'm sorry that my messages seem to be being sent multiple times. Initially they weren't being sent at all, now I can't stop 'em! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:27:44 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: SJC Downhill skiing tracks for the piste and Tom Waits Laurent your selection is about as patchwork as mine.... Also seeing Kate's reference to Tom Waits reminded me that he would be wonderful to ski to..... I think "Skipping past the Graveyard".. (Blue Valentines) or Down Town from Heartattack and vine.......would be wonderful to ski to if I could manage even half a snowplough turn.... Hence the torn ligaments.......I cannot do downhill music but I can do sitting on the top of mountains music with no problem....but somehow, I think Tom might jussssssttttt gooooooo for thaaaaaaaaaaaat... Oh what a voice....Saw him in 1981 in London, small venue and it was my first ever encounter with the man...... what a singer.. So Cafe (cos I cannot ski) music would have to include.......... 1 Anything by Joni (naturally) 2 Cafe Bleu .... the Style council 3 Electrif Lycanthope.... Little Feat 4 Dark side of the Moon ...Pink floyd 5 Hell amongst the yearlings....Gillian Welch 6 Fumbling towards Ecstacy..Sarah McLachlan 7 The Mask and the Mirror... Loreena McKennet 8 White Ladders...... David Gray 9 Liege and Leif... Fairport Convention 10 and some sort of compilation including James Taylor, Neil Young, Jackson Browne, Martin Stephenson and Al Stewart... That would keep me happy whilst I sipped a Grande Creme or bottle of beer...... OOOOOOh yes. np Norah Jones come away with me... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:48:54 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue Opinion In a message dated 15/01/2003 23:20:15 GMT Standard Time, hejira57@worldnet.att.net writes: Again, please be gentle with me. Surely there's someone out there : who agrees with me just a little tiny bit! : : Arlene Don't worry Arlene, although you are in a minority, there are a fair few of us who don't rate Travelogue very highly. In fact, the whole gamut of responses have been logged here, from those who think it's her greatest record, to those who love it a lot, to those who have a few reservations, to those who have a lot of reservations, to those who actively dislike it. As for me, I think it's a disaster! I am sure there will be people who suggest that you need to listen to it properly, not through heavily compressed downloads - and that's a fair point, you need a proper system to get the full benefit (if that's the right word!) of the florid arrangements - though personally I don't think anything would make her voice easier to hear. There may be others who suggest that your opinions are worthless as you haven't listened to the whole thing on a decent system. Don't worry about them! Welcome to the list, Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:50:59 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Truly, madly, deeply (NJC) >>Sorry, I did not mean to go into this, again I apologise but I don't have the time to explain or discuss it properly, so I'd better shut up. I just wanted to say: I was disappointed that Truly Madly Deeply did not give us a better way out than the hopping man. But if it works for you, hey that's fine! Lots of love to you all, Lieve. As the instigator of this discussion, I feel I should comment, although I know very little about real grieving, I admit. I love the film and I think it tries to take the viewpoint of the person who has died. If you died suddenly tomorrow of whatever cause, if you loved someone would you want them to be unhappy for the rest of their lives? No, if it were possible you would want to help them through it somehow, but maybe, selfishly would you hope that they settled for something slightly second best like the hopping man? Personally, I really like the caring hopper and would consider myself lucky not to have jumped into a far worse fire. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:57:33 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: grief njc Hi Arlene, Welcome Arlene! Glad you are here! Sorry to welcome you on this particular post, which is kind of sad. I completely agree with your assessment of this therapist. Had I adhered to this, I would have grieved a whopping 6 months over the loss of my lover. It probably took me a little too long but at least I am still here and whole again. Mags said grief is a personal journey and that it is. There are stages and everyone deals with each differently. While there was some major trauma involved with my loss as well, I can not even imagine having to walk in your shoes, Arlene. And this I would imagine be more than clear to a professional therapist. While there are some who wallow and exploit their pain, it is insensitive to rush to judgements and caution would be the better choice. My curiosity here would be not the therapists timeline but her guidelines and support through those stages. Time is a healer to be sure ... and some of us run behind the times ... and others are right on time ... and still others are ahead of the times. My advice is just be sure to deal with each stage, and recognize each step forward - advancement. Know and except, that you will never be the same and that can be a good thing. To every thing turn turn .... Take care ... Peace, Susan NP: Joni/Turbulent Indigo/Borderline Arlene wrote: > Interesting....I lost my boyfriend to suicide several years ago. At no time > did my therapist give me a time frame for grieving (I would have fired her > if she had). Grief is an individual thing. Sometimes we never get over > these things. Nothing personal, but I think that therapist needs to get > some serious education on the grieving process. Jimmy wrote: > : When I was seeing a therapist a couple of years ago, she told me that as a > : rule of thumb, for "each" year someone was a part of your life, it takes the > : same number of months for the grieving process. i.e. If you and your spouse > : or partner were together for 24 years, you could expect to be grieving for 24 > : months. This is not to say that 2 years later you would still be crying your > : eyes out constantly. It means that 2 years from now, you could see something > : that reminded you of that person and it would be perfectly natural for you to > : start crying. > : > : It made sense to me, but it was her rule of thumb, not mine. Like you said > : Mags, grief is a personal journey. > : > : Jimmy Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 19:17:10 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/JT BBC Concert FOUND/SCJoniguy content In a message dated 1/15/2003 5:23:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, jaywong@yahoo.com writes: > SCJoniguy has helped me out on my search for the > Joni/JT concert. Thanks to the group for helping me > find a replacement copy. Especially SCJoniguy. > Not enough can be said in praise of SCJoniguy (Bob). He is a JMDL treasure, isn't he? In fact, when I grow up, I want to be SCJoniguy! Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 19:28:34 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue Opinion In a message dated 1/15/2003 6:20:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, hejira57@worldnet.att.net writes: > I've now had the opportunity on the Joni website to listen to samples > : of her new CD "Travelogue". I may be in the minority here, but man! > : Every single song sounded like a dirge to me. Welcome to the list! I think you'll find that many members agree with you about BSN. I'm a huge fan of Joni's and haven't played BSN in over a year. I had the same reaction as you about Travelogue's dirgelike nature, especially after hearing Amelia. Her vocal deterioration doesn't really bother me so much-I like the huskiness from the smoke-but the diminished capacity to sustain a note or sing a lengthy phrase without breaking it up into smaller chunks is bothersome, and serves to heighten the dirgelike quality. Still, there are standout cuts sprinkled throughout, and I'm always thrilled to hear whatever it is that Joni's been working on. I just don't find myself playing Travelogue very often. Again, welcome! Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 19:46:23 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: grief njc In a message dated 1/15/03 6:58:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, groovchacha@yahoo.com writes: > My advice is just be sure to deal with each stage, and recognize each > step forward - advancement. Know and except, that you will never be the > same and that can be a > good thing. To every thing turn turn .... > > Susan and Arlene, I just want to make it clear my therapist was *very* educated on the grieving process. She had been highly recommended, and I went to her because I wanted to *heal*, and she helped me very much. The grieving process can be less painful if you try to understand that loss and grief is a natural part of life. Learn to accept your loss and believe in yourself. Believe that you can cope with tragic happenings. Let your experience be a psychological growth process that will help you to deal with future stressful events. This process isn't for everyone. As I said before, I agree with Mags that grieving is one's personal journey. My journey (and sessions) finally led to HOPE. I knew that I would eventually reach a point where remembering would be less painful and I could begin to look ahead to the future and more good times. Again, this worked for me. Jimmy, who is so happy now, I have blue jays flying out of my butt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:06:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/JT BBC Concert FOUND/SCJoniguy content In a message dated 1/15/2003 7:18:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, KJHSF@aol.com writes: > In fact, when I grow up, I want to be SCJoniguy! > So what do I get to be when *I* grow up? :~( I know, I'll just skip that part... Bob, growing older but NEVER up! NP: Joni, "That Song About The Midway" (giving your CD a test drive, Jason...sounds great!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 01:09:21 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: grief njc > Susan and Arlene, I just want to make it clear my therapist was *very* > educated on the grieving process. She had been highly recommended, and I > went to her because I wanted to *heal*, and she helped me very much. I am glad you were helped Jimmy and the following is not a criticsim of you. i have heard 'professionals' say some pretty stupid things and this 1 mth per year thing is right up there with the stupidest. The end of a relationship of 22 years by death, and you get 22 mths to grieve? 30 years and you have 30mths, ie 2.5 yrs? Or you lose your 6 year old child and your done in 6mths? Sounds more like wishful thinking than anything else. You, tho, are correct-pain and loss are part of life and we must learn to deal with it-in our own individual ways. what works for one is not going to work for another.And some things are never dealt with but lived with. And that is okay as long as you do LIVE despite the baggage. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:09:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni concert, detroit, 1974 In a message dated 1/15/2003 5:24:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jkp1953@aol.com writes: > i hope one or two of you enjoyed it. i've been a > joni devotee for 32 years now. many of you are not even that old, but > that's > fine. > Hiya Janet, & welcome! Thanks so much for the intro, and what a great experience to have seen that classic show! I'm sure that more than "one or two" will enjoy reading it, and probably MOST of us are over that 32 figure... Anyway, hope to hear lots more from you - fresh voices rock. Bob NP: Joni, The Gallery ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 01:15:55 +0000 From: colin Subject: affirmative action njc pc http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/15/bush.affirmativeaction/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:17:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue Opinion In a message dated 1/15/2003 6:20:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, hejira57@worldnet.att.net writes: > Every single song sounded like a dirge to me. Nothing in the slightest > : bit upbeat, every song sounded similar. Welcome, Arlene...don't worry, you won't get beaten up here. Like Azeem said, opinions for T'log are all over the board . I'd have liked to hear a little more swing myself, it's why "You Dream Flat Tires" is so welcome, and I also love the new outfit she's put on "Dawntreader", but for the most part I find it pretty uninspired. A lot of that is simply because an artist of Joni's stature has set the bar so high that when she's merely treading water and revisiting old songs it's none too exciting by comparison. Nice ear candy, though...good for me to go to sleep by. Bob NP: JT, "Steamroller Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:03:54 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: music to ski by, NJC >Is it common for people to listen to Walkmen while they are skiing? Is it >safe to do so? Won't the Walkman block the sound of the beginning skier >screaming as she's hurtling into you? The reason I ask is that I'm being dragooned into a Colorado ski vacation this February. I do not know how to ski, yet, and I don't really want to go, but if I could have Joni playing in my ear the whole time, maybe it would be tolerable. The song of my choice would be HELP ME. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/03 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:09:01 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: My Epiphany >Epiphanies anyone? I was 16 and I was definitely out of the grunge-self-depracating phase of my adolescence. I was getting into different music. I had this really cheesy book on Rock n' Roll and one day asked my mother about Joni Mitchell. She mentioned to me that she was always amazed by her range on the song, "HelP mE". Well, I had never even heard anything by Joni Mitchell. Later that year, I took a chance and bought my first Joni album, Turbulent INdigo and my first Tom Waits album (also having never heard a sole note that he had sung). I was totally entranced by the sound of this artist, I loved the strong smokey voice that had an assertive tug on my musical palate. I wondered at that point where was that 'impressive' range that my mother raved about. The smokey voice didn't turn me off, it lured in further. The music was fresh and new to my ears as well, despite my first impression being that I thought most of the instrumentation was more of the "light-jazz" quality, the more I listened, the more I noticed how it didn't serve that label, and infact, like the Tom Waits album I picked up was the same, uncategorizeable. WEll, from there I was hooked and the next Joni album I bought was Dog Eat Dog and I was equally excited about the familiar 80's synth sounds that I had been raised on, weened off (during my grunge phase) and then began to appreciate as I matured. So, I have to say that Turbulent Indigo was my ephipany, and I didn't purchase Blue until 2 and a half years later, which makes me think why did I hold off for so long? Blair :) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:20:44 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: Duncan & Brady Bob wrote: "NP: Dylan, "Duncan & Brady" 2/13/02" Bob -- I'm not familiar with this song. Is this a previously unrecorded Dylan piece? Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:20:16 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: music to ski by, NJC In a message dated 1/15/03 10:03:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, messling@enter.net writes: > Is it common for people to listen to Walkmen while they are skiing? Is it > >safe to do so? Won't the Walkman block the sound of the beginning skier > >screaming as she's hurtling into you? > > The reason I ask is that I'm being dragooned into a Colorado ski vacation > this February. I do not know how to ski, yet, and I don't really want to > go, Deb, as an average skier who ski's about once a year, I'll tell you DEFINITELY DON'T TAKE A WALKMAN!!!! It's extremely dangerous. You have so many people that are coming up from behind that will say "to your left" or "to your right". It's like driving with a Walkman. Enjoy the sounds of nature (and approaching skiers behind you). When you get back to your cabin or lodge........light a fire, drink some wine, and listen to anything by Joni (then make passionate love) :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 16:51:34 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: music to ski by, NJC My ex-fiance Jimmy wrote: > Deb, as an average skier who ski's about once a year, I'll tell you > DEFINITELY DON'T TAKE A WALKMAN!!!! It's extremely dangerous. You have so > many people that are coming up from behind that will say "to your left" or > "to your right". It's like driving with a Walkman. Enjoy the sounds of > nature (and approaching skiers behind you). > When you get back to your cabin or lodge........light a fire, drink some > wine, and listen to anything by Joni (then make passionate love) :~) Another piece of important advice: When you're putting your skis on for the very first time, make sure you're standing on a flat area of snow. On no account put them on if you're standing on a slope, especially if you're facing UP the hill. It can be VERY embarassing - not that I know from person experience, or anything..... I've been in snow twice in my entire life (the second earlier this year, in fact), and only once have I attempted skiing - on my first encounter with the white cold stuff on a University hostel trip many years ago. It was fun, but to be perfectly honest, I had a lot more fun once my friend and I had put our skis to one side. We made a snowman, pelted little kids with snowballs (and got more than our fair share back) and had a lovely hot chocolate while watching other people make fools of themselves! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:23:50 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Bush Lies - who lies? (njc) (pc) <> Now will someone please tell me why we're not stomping our feet harder about North Korea's recent actions?? Are we afraid of North Korea, or of China, or is it because they don't have anything we want? Lori I was wondering the same thing this evening while watching the news. Seems like North Korea has these concentration camps that they have long denied having but new satellite photos reveal differently. Then the testimony of survivors of this atrocity was very difficult to hear. So I, like you Lori, wonder if it is because they don't have anything that we want. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:45:02 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: grief njc Hey Jimmy, First of all I am very happy you were able to heal and that you got what you needed to out of therapy. Thankfully I had been in therapy for years with a superb woman. Of course once I had to support the heroin addiction of my lover's, I had to stop my own therapy due to finances. NEVER again, but once upon a time.... But still I retained enough, to work through it, slow as it was. And you are correct, finding hope or having it as unfounded as it may be many days, is what kept me alive. But I NEVER could have achieved that in 6 months. We were soulmates, as over used as that term is these days. And I wet through a living hell, financially, emotionally and physically. We were together 6 years almost to the day she died. I still object to her timetable, but I understand that whatever gets you through your grief is all good. I can say that after that first year of living on the edge, and then finding all of you, may have been the best therapy for me. I know I have been kind of reborn here and yet Robin is still a big of who I am. Not to mention the part of me that died with her. It's all good now, it's all a part of my fabric. As a reverend said Sunday at a service for a friend who passed last week, "death IS a part of life." It gets easier and easier to deal with. Turn turn ... And by the way Jimmy, I wondered why the hell all those blue feathers were hanging off your ass at fest! I figured Smurphy planted them as a prank! ;-D Peace, Susan NPIMH: If happy little bluebirds fly above the rainbow, why oh why ... > Susan and Arlene, I just want to make it clear my therapist was *very* > educated on the grieving process. She had been highly recommended, and I > went to her because I wanted to *heal*, and she helped me very much. > > The grieving process can be less painful if you try to understand that loss and grief is a natural part of life. Learn to accept your loss and believe in yourself. > This process isn't for everyone. As I said before, I agree with Mags that > grieving is one's personal journey. My journey (and sessions) finally led to HOPE. I knew that I would eventually reach a point where remembering would be less painful and I could begin to look ahead to the future and more good times. > > Jimmy, who is so happy now, I have blue jays flying out of my butt Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:56:30 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: NAMM (NJC) Hello All I am off to warm sunny So. Cal. To see the wizards and attend Winter NAMM. Hope you guys have a great weekend. Can't wait to see all my So. Cal. Buddies starting with Dulson picking me up taking me out... I will access michaelpaz@aol.com if you need to get me a message and also will be in constant touch with Kakki and I will have my cell phone. Best to all! Love Paz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:20:07 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: JoniMitchell.com face lift I was having a browse through jonimitchell.com this evening and was overwhelmed by the wealth of information contained on the site! I've done a bit of transcribing for Wally, as well as Jim Johanson, (Hi Jim, if you're here!) and have contributed some content, but never really explored, in depth, all that there is to explore on that site. It's astounding to me! Having said that, I personally think that the site needs a facelift, or some sort of image change. I know that Jim feels the same way since he mentioned it to me once. I think the site would be wonderful if it was modeled after something like Meryl Streep's website, which is also designed by a fan: http://www.merylstreeponline.net I think it's so beautiful and so classy, streamlined and clear. I wonder if something can be done to improve the look of JM.com and give it the understated glamour and class of the artist it honours. Have a peek at Meryl Streep Online, even if you dislike the actress, and see if you can visualize a similar site dedicated to Joni. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 02:17:36 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 16 On January 16 the following items were published: 1975: "Joni Mitchell - a star with staying power" - Christian Science Monitor (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=954 1986: "Dog Eat Dog" - Rolling Stone (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=304 1997: "Woke Up - It Was a Hall Of Fame Morning" - Associated Press (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=41 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #33 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)