From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #19 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, January 10 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 019 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- njc lapse of Greek and Aramaic ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] last gasp on religion (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: prepare - njc - rc ["Victor Johnson" ] last gasp on religion (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] Bible, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Misunderstandings, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Hijacking of ships by Israel, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Senator John Edwards/U.S. Politics NJC [Relayer211@aol.com] RE: prepare - njc rc ["Heather" ] NJC Satan music ["kasey simpson" ] hell, jesus - njc - rc - well - actually a little joni content... .. [Ron] Re: last gasp on religion (njc) [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: NY Times review of Travelogue [Relayer211@aol.com] defending your life NJC [Emily Gray Tedrowe ] Re: Misunderstandings, njc [colin ] kate & anna mcgarrigle - njc [Ron Greer ] MARY GAUTHIER (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Bible, njc ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] NJC Lucifer the music man ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: Rufus Wainwright [David Sadowski ] Re: NJC Lucifer the music man ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: NJC Lucifer the music man ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] joni covers dylan question ["Ross, Les" ] NJC Music Mans Top 10 ["kasey simpson" ] Joni covers [ReckersL@ebrd.com] Joni's old venue [] RE: Joni covers ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Prepare, NJC PC [TerryM2222@aol.com] Re: prepare - njc - rc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: NJC Lucifer the music man [FMYFL@aol.com] Oh yeah.... ["Mark Connely" ] NY Times Review dissection ["PAUL PETERSON" ] Re: Joni covers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni covers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: joni covers dylan question [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Joni covers [ReckersL@ebrd.com] Re: joni covers dylan question ["Bill Dollinger" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:47:52 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: njc lapse of Greek and Aramaic Yo, in the post I did on the Biblical (Christian Covenant akak New Testament only) name for hell, I think I was transliterating too much from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. "Gehenna" is the word that I transliterated improperly, Gehenna was the burning fire dump outside Jerusalem of which Jesus is attributed to have spoken of allegorically. That's what I get for trying to transliterate in the morning. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:47:50 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Re: prepare - njc - rc Joseph wrote: Church and Bible teaching says that angels have free will and that Satan was once Luficer, an angel of light - also in charge of music in heaven. He was God's "second in command", but he became proud and thought he was as good as God thinking, "why should I not be worshipped as God is worshipped?". So, there was a battle in heaven, and lucifer lost, taking a third of the angels from heaven with him, who became demons. Joseph, If this is true, how do we humans stand a chance? We are such an arrogant lot. Even if we do all that is ask of us here on earth once we go to heaven we still take with us pride, we still could be kicked out of heaven, still be tempted by Satan? They were angles, they knew God, and still turned against him. This above all else makes no sense to me. If we (humans) knew for a fact, not on faith, that God was real, if we could see him, talk with him, how very different our lives, and world would be. But then you are saying it wouldn't be any different. That people would still rise up against him. One more thing, if today Satan ask God to forgive him could he get back into heaven? What would become of Hell? Maybe we should ALL pray for Satan to accept the love and forgiveness of God. If that happens then hell would be gone, blame for our actions would be on us instead of this insane chess match between God, and Satan for our souls. Maybe we would have global peace. Kasey Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:04:01 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: last gasp on religion (njc) Well, it looks like a bunch or people are packing their tents and leaving this discussion. I agree that it may be time to take a break from this topic. Before I end my participation, I'll add one last thought. I think there are supposed to be different religions, different ways of interpreting God (or not believing in God at all). Otherwise, God and spirituality would be ho-hum. For example, if I said "I think the world is round" everyone would say "Yup." End of discussion. Instead, the differences make for lively discussion and hopefully a continual re-evaluating of our own beliefs - strengthening, changing, and even discarding our own tenets of spirituality. Thank you to everyone who answered my honest question about literal belief in Jesus Christ. I don't want to adopt the belief, just understand it so that I can accept the difference from my own belief system. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:3:50 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: prepare - njc - rc > Joseph wrote: > Church and Bible teaching says that angels have free > will and that Satan was once Luficer, an angel of > light - also in charge of music in heaven. Satan was in charge of music? I didn't even know he could sing. Maybe someone should write a musical about the fall of Lucifer. I have this picture of Satan handing out harps to all the angels. I wonder if he went electric before or after the fall. Victor in Ashelanta - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:04:39 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: last gasp on religion (njc) Well, it looks like a bunch or people are packing their tents and leaving this discussion. I agree that it may be time to take a break from this topic. Before I end my participation, I'll add one last thought. I think there are supposed to be different religions, different ways of interpreting God (or not believing in God at all). Otherwise, God and spirituality would be ho-hum. For example, if I said "I think the world is round" everyone would say "Yup." End of discussion. Instead, the differences make for lively discussion and hopefully a continual re-evaluating of our own beliefs - strengthening, changing, and even discarding our own tenets of spirituality. Thank you to everyone who answered my honest question about literal belief in Jesus Christ. I don't want to adopt the belief, just understand it so that I can accept the difference from my own belief system. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:50:46 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Bible, njc Do you believe in the Bible? The Bible > teaches that there is a Hell. Do you only believe in > some of it? How can you do that? You either have to > believe all that Jesus said, or none of it. You can't > pick and choose. Either everything Jesus said in the > Bible is true, or it isn't. > > Joseph I love Bob's approach to the whole thing and his reply to this post. FYI, lots of jews, myself included, do the same thing i.e pick and choose. The standard joke is that there are as many forms of judaism as there are jews. Or another one: put 2 jews together in a room and you have 3 arguments. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:45:53 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Misunderstandings, njc > >Colin, we seem to live on 2 different planets. Everything you say I (and > >others) misread, I have to watch every word I say because you often > >misinterpret them. What seems logical and obvious to you makes no sense to > >me, and vice versa. Sorry but I don't have the time and patience to argue > >with you anymore. > > > what a shame. I don't call it arguing. Still, it saves you having to > answer my question doesn't it? > Believe what you want. Like you cornered me with a question so deep that I cannot answer it. > good luck and I am sorry you feel the way you do. I am sure we would > have got on really well if I thought the same as you do. > This is a good example of how things in the world work-two sides with > opposing views and one or other or both can;t handle that and then > demonise the other. And this is a perfect example of why I don't want to communicate (not argue) with you: I never demonized you in any way, shape or form. I even said you're a nice fellow but I don't have time to correct all the MUTUAL misunderstandings that arise every day between us. Stick around, you'll see me exchange many posts with people who have different opinions from mine. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:53:56 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Hijacking of ships by Israel, njc >>Hello Mike,Mike wrote: ... Even terrorism against Americans is tolerable. The Israeli terrorist attacks against U.S. installations (also, public places) in Egypt in 1954 in an attempt to exacerbate U.SbEgyptian relations and abort secret peace negotiations then in progress were ignored at the time and are barely remembered, much as in the case of the attempt to sink the U.S. spy ship Liberty in international waters in 1967 by Israeli bombers and torpedo boats that even shot lifeboats out of the water in an effort to ensure that no one would escape, with 34 crewmen killed and 171 injured, the worst peacetime U.S. naval disaster of the century, but dismissed as an "error" b a transparent absurdity b and barely known. (See James Ennes' 'The USS Liberty: Back in the News', American-Arab Affairs, also A Journey Through the Cold War Brookings Institute 2001). The bombing of the USS Liberty was not bdismissedb as an error. It was thoroughly investigated by a US military high tribunal and not bdismissedb until more than twenty years later, when the two governments formally signed an agreement (after twenty years of research) that the bombing was accidental, closing the issue. The USS Liberty had no colours struck at the time of the incident, and was not included in the listing of US naval positions given to Israel at the outbreak of the 6 Day War. Israeli pilots concluded that the ship was one of the Egyptian ships which had illegally blocked the Straits of Tiran triggering the war (by UN resolutions passed at the end of the Suez Campaign considered an bact of warb). That Israelis shot sailors in their lifeboats is a lie. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:08:38 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: last gasp on religion (njc) I'll admit that I have not been following this thread, but this stands out: > I think there are supposed to be different > religions, different ways of interpreting God (or not > believing in God at all). Otherwise, God and > spirituality would be ho-hum. Thanks, Anne. That's some real food for thought. Lori, agnostic (reserving my right to believe in whatever I want at the last minute) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:14:34 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Senator John Edwards/U.S. Politics NJC I'm hoping Edwards will be the Next Bill Clinton.I'm a liberal,but maybe a moderate,charismatic,southern politican is who we need to stop that asshole Bush from being reelected. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:16:50 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: prepare - njc rc In some Latin translations Lucifer just means dark. No evil connotations. It is very interesting how different societies over the millenniums have used the contrast of good / evil and light / dark. Also the fervent need for a mother figure and pairs (twins) such as Peter and Paul, Romulus and Remus, etc. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of chuty001 Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:40 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: prepare - njc rc I believe in the theory of balance here good and bad etc... but I'm thinking Purgatory would need an opposite of over stimulation or something. Also wasn't Lucifer an angel gone bad? Was there an opposite before him? Or was it just the presence of evil? Chuck - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Francis" To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:48 PM Subject: re: prepare - njc rc > > The assertion that God is Love on one hand and the > assertion on the hand > > that people who dipelase God will go to hell, is yet > another example of > > bamboozling. > > OK, well this is hard to try to explain, but I suppose > I will try. > > It all comes from the assumption (which I believe to > be true), that there is good and there is evil. Now, > if you believe (as you have said) that there is some > kind of higher good or power (which I call God), then > you have to believe that there is also some kind of a > greater evil (which I call Satan, or the devil). > One cannot exist without the other. The devil would > love you to believe that he doesn't exist, but where > there is a black, there is a white - where there is > day there is night. Even Satanists believe in God! > They steal the blessed bread and wine from our > Catholic churches and mistreat it - mixing the wine > with urine, offering up the bread on the "alter" of a > naked woman for their black masses. > > If you believe we have a spirit, then it must come > from somewhere and go somewhere when we die. God is > good. There is no evil in him, no blackness, nor can > there ever be. The opposite is true of Satan. God does > not want anyone to go to hell, but anything that is > not pure and "good" cannot exist with Him. > After Adam and Eve seperated us from God by their sin, > there was no way that we could really be good enough > to come to God. > > In the old Jewish law, they used to place all their > sins on a perfect lamb with no spots - it had to be > pure white, then they would slaughter the lamb as a > sacrifice in order to be purified. As you can see, > this is probably not very practical today....lol > So God sent his only son Jesus to earth. He was > perfect and without sin (He was God). He was to be the > last sacrifice for us - the Lamb of God. > God placed ALL the sins ever commited and that ever > will be committed onto Jesus, your sins and my sins - > like Jesus had done them - and Jesus took our place - > and for a short time at Calvary, God punished him, his > only son for those sins. And boy did he take a lot of > punishment at the cross. > > All we have to do is believe in Him. When God looks at > us, he see through the blood of his son - and sees us > as blameless. BUT...Even though we are forgiven > through CHrist's blood, if a person is genuinely evil > and rejects God - God is pure love and cannot recieve > evil into himself (heaven). There is only Hell left > (although, I, as a Catholic, believe in a purgatory > where souls go who are not intrinsically evil, but > they are not pure enough for Heaven. Here they must > stay until they are purified through time and people > praying for them etc. On the walls of the catacombes > of the early Christians are inscribed things like > "pray for so-and-so who died at such-a-date". If they > are in Heaven, they do not need our prayers anyway, > and if they are in Hell, prayers will do no good - so > the early church did believe in this purgatory, or > place of waiting). > > Sure, there are people who do not even know about God > or Christianity, but live good lives, and I don't > believe people like that would go to Hell. > Jesus did say, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. > No one can come to the Father, except through me." (by > the way - I read somewhere that in the Jewish > tradition, the temple or "holy of holies" where the > tabernacle was, was seperated by 3 curtains. These 3 > curtains were called "the Way", "the Truth", "the > Life" - so the Jews knew *exactly* what Jesus meant > when he said that). > > I know I am not perfect - as do all Christians. The > church is not "a hotel for saints, but a hospital for > sinners" (as I think Chesterton said). > > Sorry, for the long post, but you asked :) > Joseph > > > > > http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies > - What's on at your local cinema? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:16:58 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: NJC Satan music Where do you think rap came from? Yo! It ain't my fault big Daddy got mad Playing my tunes wasn't so bad! I did a hip and he wanted a hop Big D said I'd have to stop. I said no dice big Man, I'm making a stand! I'll play my shit to a big ol bell Now yo know why I'm in hell!!!!! Sorry Vince, had to do it:) Kasey Satan was in charge of music? I didn't even know he could sing. Maybe someone should write a musical about the fall of Lucifer. I have this picture of Satan handing out harps to all the angels. I wonder if he went electric before or after the fall. Victor in AshelantaGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:25:14 +0200 From: Ron Greer Subject: hell, jesus - njc - rc - well - actually a little joni content... .. hi >>>>joseph wrote >>>>WHy do you think Jesus came to earth to die for us if there was no hell, and we would all go to heaven anyway? Do you know why He died for us at Easter? I am sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense otherwise.<<<< hey joseph - you go boy!!! i think a lot of people just dont understand the nature of god. i dont either but i have experienced a little of it. god is real - no doubt about that. god is love - oh yes - the experience of gods love is an incredible, life changing experience. god is also just. its a part of his being that he cannot tolerate sin. god is holy. sin cannot abide in his presence. around twenty years ago i was suffering from intense depression, totally withdrawn, never spoke to anyone, suicidal. joni's music was a large part of keeping me going through this stage of my life. then a christian girl i knew hugged me one day. thats all it took for god to touch me with his love. things changed instantly. there were times in prayer meetings when the love of god was just so strong and so real we'd just sit and weep. sometimes we'd laugh. sometimes his holiness would be so real, we'd just lie there flat out on the floor - too scared to even move a finger. sometimes hed show me my own heart - the true motivation for doing things. perhaps not so bad by human standards but hopelessly short of godly standards. god met with me - spent time with me - was real to me. way, way more than just words in a book or some guy preaching (never got that "preaching" thing - - why cant they just talk like a normal human being!!!!!! so theres somethings (actually theres a lot, a whole lot) in the bible i dont get? does that suddenly make god not real?? well theres a *lot* i dont get in joni's music - doesnt make sense to me so she cant exist - newsflash - shes still around. my failure to grasp god doesnt mean that i must deny his existence. hes real, hes true, hes love, hes goodness, and i for one am really really scared to look at his face one day to have to explain myself. does that make him bad and cruel and nasty. not by any means. somewhere in the bible theres a passage (any ideas joseph??) where it refers to mercy and truth being met together - and there in lies a whole subject which could fill up books. god is mercy yes - hes also truth. think about that for a while. there are an awful lot of particularly shitty people out there calling themselves christians - magdalene laundries is a stunningly beautiful song about just that. some of them are genuinely trying - theyll probably be ok - some arent trying - they'll have to answer for their actions and motivations. aint nobody going to bullshit god - aint nobody even going to try when they come into his presence. so i cant reconcile things in the bible with what i do understand. well the parts which i do get convince me that it is all true - so i guess im just going to have to hang in there till i do start to get it. btw (ok so this is one of those friend of a friend type stories which can get *so* out of hand). i had a good friend in durban (he was my best man). he met someone who had a most amazing experience with joni's music. this guy was on acid and was listening to wtrf & when "love" came up the room was flooded with a beautiful warmth and gentle light (so he said). ron np joan baez - all my trials ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:24:24 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: last gasp on religion (njc) And what a discussion it was - and it seemed to me some folks packed up their bags feeling misunderstood and angry - a microcosm of the conflict, anger, and disagreement that can occur in the world at large - even among Christians, even among Catholics - let alone between members of different faiths. phew Jenny - --- anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > Well, it looks like a bunch or people are packing > their > tents and leaving this discussion. I agree that it > may > be time to take a break from this topic. > > Before I end my participation, I'll add one last > thought. I think there are supposed to be different > religions, different ways of interpreting God (or > not > believing in God at all). Otherwise, God and > spirituality would be ho-hum. For example, if I said > "I > think the world is round" everyone would say "Yup." > End > of discussion. Instead, the differences make for > lively > discussion and hopefully a continual re-evaluating > of > our own beliefs - strengthening, changing, and even > discarding our own tenets of spirituality. > > Thank you to everyone who answered my honest > question > about literal belief in Jesus Christ. I don't want > to > adopt the belief, just understand it so that I can > accept the difference from my own belief system. > > lots of love > Anne Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:26:57 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: NY Times review of Travelogue In a message dated 1/6/2003 7:58:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, chuty001@hotmail.com writes: > I think my 15 year old son who can't stand Joni > Chuck > > I hope you punish him! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:34:35 -0500 From: Emily Gray Tedrowe Subject: defending your life NJC hi all! i have to admit to not reading much of the list these days...i scroll through pretty quickly. BUT i did see that someone (bob?) mentioned "defending your life" by albert brooks--and i had to jump in to say that this movie is amazing. i truly count it as one of my favorite films ever-- it's one of those works of art (like woody allen's stuff, or louis armstrong's) that reaches the realm of serious thinking via joy, laughter and comedy. too often we (in my opinion) value tragedy/drama/etc over comedy/funniness/joy in terms of what is "serious" or "worthy" or "gets at the important issues." but "defending your life" gets right to the important "issues" (gross word), like love, fear, change, death, relationships...and does it by being hilarious and tender and joking. i love love love this movie. i am inspired every time i see it! written using only 5 % or so of my brain (as per "defending your life"), but now with a completed and defended (yay!) dissertation, and a daughter due to arrive in less than 3 months (!!), emily in chicago ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:37:03 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Misunderstandings, njc >Believe what you want. Like you cornered me with a question so deep that I >cannot answer it. > what esle am i supposed to think? You made a comment about 'god's chosen people' , mentioned something about 613 whatever of the Torah (forgive me I would quote properly but don't feel like trawling thru the archives to find it) that God has chosen the Jews to fulfil etc. This in response to the situation in Israel. I asked you how you justify using a story to back your claims to rightness. I see nothing wrong in asking that. Instead of answering, your mails have got hotter and hotter. (a friend of mine who is a keen debator warned me it would if I challenged a belief.) I also note that you have been cc'ing some our list mails to a non list member, Marcel. Do give him my regards. Oh and I do read your posts to others . Good to see you are even handed. It is such a pity you don't want to continue this enjoyable excahnge although something tells me you only wish that was so since I keep seeing replies form you. I know what is like.I am forever doing things I say i won't! Just think one day none of this will matter one jot. And you never know, you may be right in everything and I completely wrong. deos it matter? I think not. with best wishes colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:40:49 +0200 From: Ron Greer Subject: kate & anna mcgarrigle - njc hi well "matapedia" is a wonderful album & i would recomend it to any jonifan. but what the heck does "matapedia" mean - i cant even find it at dictionary.com ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:56:30 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: MARY GAUTHIER (NJC) Jerry wrote: >excited about seeing MARY GAUTHIER tonight. Pazman, do you know her? I don't know if Paz does, but I do! Michele and I have seen her at two Folk Alliances - she is terrific! A real original. I wish she would play down here. - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:03:10 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Bible, njc Laurent, Jesus also said that if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off, and if your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. I refuse to believe anyone who says they believe *everything* in the Bible unless they are missing their right eye and right hand. Vince > How can you do that? You either have to > believe all that Jesus said, or none of it. You can't > pick and choose. Either everything Jesus said in the > Bible is true, or it isn't. > > Joseph Laurent answered: I love Bob's approach to the whole thing and his reply to this post. FYI, lots of jews, myself included, do the same thing i.e pick and choose. The standard joke is that there are as many forms of judaism as there are jews. Or another one: put 2 jews together in a room and you have 3 arguments. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:10:09 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: NJC Lucifer the music man > Joseph wrote: > Church and Bible teaching says that angels have free > will and that Satan was once Luficer, an angel of > light - also in charge of music in heaven. Victor in Ashelanta Satan was in charge of music? I didn't even know he could sing. Maybe someone should write a musical about the fall of Lucifer. I have this picture of Satan handing out harps to all the angels. I wonder if he went electric before or after the fall. Victor, no where in the Bible does it mention the name "Lucifer" let alone that Lucifer was in charge of music. That is a new one for me, and I thought that I had heard them all. A lot of nonBiblical legends abound that involve Lucifer and this one must stem from those, but as far as being a being a teaching of the church, hardly. But Lucifer being in charge of music could explain John Tesh and ABBA. Vince - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:15:0 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: NJC Lucifer the music man > But Lucifer being in charge of music could explain John > Tesh and ABBA. > Now now...I have to confess I can't put ABBA in the same category with John Tesh(I need an ABBA Gold fix every now and then) but if you were to say John Tesh and Kenny G I could agree with you... on another note I had an opportunity recently to hear the 8 Mile soundtrack and enjoyed the cuts from Emimem. When I am no longer broke, I'll have to add him to my list of albums to purchase, along with Tori Amos, Peter Gabriel, George Harrison, Cold Play etc.... Victor in Ashelanta NP: Bob Marley "Babylon by Bus" - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:23:12 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: Rufus Wainwright A couple of the McGarrigles records were mainstays of cutout bins in the late 70s. They got the most attention when Linda Ronstadt covered Heart Like a Wheel. My favorites are French Record and Love Over and Over. I wasn't as crazy about Heartbeats Accelerating. I too saw them play in the late 70s/early 80s and was simply blown away. AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 09/01/2003 15:29:48 GMT Standard Time, >Harry83house@aol.com writes: > > > > >>Plus, can anyone recommend any of The >>McGarrigle sisters' albums. I see their names pop up in some Top 100 >>Album >>lists and wonder about them, but can't find them in the record shops. Were >> >>they ever "big" in the states? >> >> > >A couple of albums have already been mentioned - a particularly love the >debut, while the McGarrigle Hour has the bonus of having the whole extended >family on it, in various different combinations, and having a mesmerising >debut (as far as I know) from Martha Wainwright called Year Of The Dragon, >which is just wonderful, and makes me wonder when we'll here more from her. > >I'd like to put in a personal shout for Heartbeats Accelerating, which is in >some ways my favourite Kate & Anna album. The voices are older and wiser and >still sound lovely, the harmonies are as delectable as ever, and the songs >are terrific, ending with a spine-tingling rendition of the old cowboy >standard St James Hospital. > >Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:37:29 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: NJC Lucifer the music man Ok, we can debate ABBA but I would certainly agree to add Kenny G to the list. Vince (and glad you enjoyed the Em cuts from 8 Mile!) me: > But Lucifer being in charge of music could explain John > Tesh and ABBA. > Victor: Now now...I have to confess I can't put ABBA in the same category with John Tesh(I need an ABBA Gold fix every now and then) but if you were to say John Tesh and Kenny G I could agree with you... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:37:33 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: RE: prepare NJC First of all: I have here on my desk a list of about 30 names of JMDLers to whom I was going to send a personal message, wishing them all the best for 2003 and saying how good it is to know you, but I have to admit defeat and do it now all in one go. I hope you all know who you are (if you think you are, then you definitely ARE!) unless some are Joni-onlies, for whom I fail miserably. This debate (starting with the Middle East and ending up with religion) has, to my mind, again been demonstrating the quality of our list, our JMDL family. People have been sharp and intelligent, yes, but mainly staying interested in opposing views, taking arguments not at a personal level but at the level of furthering our own understanding. At many times I have felt like jumping in, but knowing I would not have time to do it properly, I have sat on my burning fingers to stop them from rushing to the keyboard. Now I'm posting, not so much to throw myself into the debate, as to make some comments from the sidelines - and with my apologies for remaining in that boring position - maybe the day will come when I have more time and can become another fiery debater right in the ring! Sara, I have admired you for your honest postings. By honest, I mean you come out for what you believe to be the truth, and because you keep looking for the truth without ever closing your mind. I like having you on the list. And yes, you have fellow humanist atheists/agnostics here! Susan, thank you for your beautiful piece on being a humanist - you saved me so many words! Colin, I just LOVE your logical analysis, your refusal to accept any "bamboozling" as you call it, and even though here and there I think you jump a step too fast (and my own fault and responsibility for not having the time to take up these points with you and see where we end up) I do agree with the majority of what you say. Laurent and Barcelone Mike, I admire you too for keeping the debate open, respectful and intelligent at all times. Bob and Vince and WallyK, thank you for all of you being, in your very own different ways, such good examples of "good" christians. I have grown out of my catholic upbringing into a resigned acceptance that even if there is a god, it (he/she) does not care, does not communicate and does not interfere. A bit sad, I would have been much happier with an eternal conscious afterlife, but hey I know the distinction between WANTING and BELIEVING... Seems to me god is only what people project, what they fear or what they hope and want. But god or no god, we cannot escape the duty of being good people. And so my only criterion for any religion is: does it make for good people, or does it make them bigots? Does it provide the incentive to be caring and loving, or the excuse to be hateful and judgmental? Well you are all wonderful examples of "good" people (I don't want to say this in a patronising way, I'm not sitting in judgment, I just feel inspired by you!), so thank you for that! I'm very much looking forward to sharing this new year with my JMDL family! Lots of love, Lieve. _____________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:40:52 +0000 From: "Tamsin Lucas" Subject: Re: Top CDs of 2002 - let's try this again Hi Mitch, I love Tori and Beck too. Not sure if you have these already, excuse me if you already do. A few people have mentioned Beth Orton's Daybreaker album as a top album of 2002, I'd highly recommend all her albums to Joni/Tori fans - particularly this latest one and Central Reservation. Amazing throaty, slightly drunk sounding voice and such a depth of feeling in her voice it sends shivers down my spine. Kathryn Williams - Old Low light, this is her latest and IMO best album to date. Beautiful music, slightly girlish voice I think but really unpretentious and straightforward lovely songs. Are you a Ryan Adams fan? tamsin >>>>Hi--i love this top 10 list, but wanted some advice from such a >>>>muscially evolved commu ity... if I'm totally into Beck and Tori Amos, can anyone suggest a few artists out there who have similar little gems out there waiting to be discovered? I've seen many artists popping up on lists but as I've never heard of them, a little wary of buying anything yet.. thanks everyone! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:48:02 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: NJC Lucifer the music man My dear Vince, I think this explains Eminem! So very sorry! Peace, Susan > But Lucifer being in charge of music could explain John > Tesh and ABBA. > > Vince Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:55:49 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: NJC Lucifer the music man My dear Vince, I think this explains Eminem! So very sorry! Peace, Susan God, forgive her for she knows not what she says. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:58:39 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: NJC Satan music Where do you think rap came from? Yo! It ain't my fault big Daddy got mad Playing my tunes wasn't so bad! I did a hip and he wanted a hop Big D said I'd have to stop. I said no dice big Man, I'm making a stand! I'll play my shit to a big ol bell Now yo know why I'm in hell!!!!! Sorry Vince, had to do it:) Kasey Kasey, did you write that? I like it - now we need to find a beat for it and release it - Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:12:15 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: joni covers dylan question with apologies if this has already been on this list.. there was some discussion (somewhere in the press, i think) some time ago about joni having covered some dylan songs during studio sessions for her records. are there any details on what songs were covered? i mentioned to my boss (a dylan fan and currently being introduced to the wonders of DJRD - "but only because pastorius is on it") that she'd done some unofficial and unreleased 'covers' of bobby's tunes and he's been nagging at me to establish which ones. any info would be appreciated. cheers les (london) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:11:21 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: NJC Music Mans Top 10 Lucifer's top 10 songs: 10) I Saw The Light-Hank Williams 9) Teen Angle-Dicky Lee 8) Heaven is Just a Sin Away-The Kendalls 7) Hellashish Acers-Kris Kristopherson 6) Devil in Blue Jeans-? 5) Momma Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be (Demons) Cowboys-Waylen Jennings 4) I'll Be Watching You-The Police 3) Shadow Dancing-Bee Gees 2) I'm Sorry-Brenda Lee 1) Father and Son-Cat StevensGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:13:43 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: Joni covers I've just come across this site: http://www.coversproject.com/artist.php/216 It aims to list all covers by artist, i.e. covers the artist has done of others' songs, and own songs this artist has had covered by others. The link above takes you straight to the Joni page, but you can look up countless other artists that way if you go through the home page. Bob, I'm sure they don't have all you've got, but maybe you find something there that escaped one of our beady eyes? Now that I'm posting a ligit Joni message, let me just quickly send my very best wishes for this new year to any of you Joni-onlies who haven't seen my ditto message in an NJC post. If we've spoken in the last year (in person or electronically) then consider this meant for you! And a profound apology to the Joni-onlies for the couple of postings I've sent where I forgot to put the NJC tag on. I always realised just after pressing the sent button and felt awful. Thanks for not telling me off! Lots of love, Lieve. _____________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:18:14 -0600 From: Subject: Joni's old venue I just received this card and thought some of you might like to see it, so put it up at http://xoetc.antville.org. While I was writing my extensive cutline, I called my friend in Saskatoon to find out exactly which building is which, and she said, "My daughter and I sat right beside Joni in the Saskatoon airport. She was on her way to L.A. I didn't talk to her -- didn't want to intrude. She is gorgeous -- dressed sharp, wore her little hat, smelled good -- a real lady." and "Once when we were having dinner at the Granary we saw her having a meal there with her parents. It looked like they were having some sort of family squabble. Basically she was telling them to "Lay off" about something or other." There's some Joni gossip for the day. Kate du Nord ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:19:57 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Joni covers > I've just come across this site: http://www.coversproject.com/artist.php/216 > > It aims to list all covers by artist, i.e. covers the artist has done of > others' songs, and own songs this artist has had covered by others. The > link above takes you straight to the Joni page, but you can look up > countless other artists that way if you go through the home page. This site claims Joni covered "After the Goldrush"? Has anyone ever heard of this or are they mistaking her for someone else? Victor in Ashelanta NP: Joey Calderazzo "the traveller" - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:32:27 EST From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: Prepare, NJC PC FWIW, I identify as a Jewish Humanist Atheist. You have no idea what kind of flack I get from some Jewish friends and relatives who say- "How can one be Jewish *and* Atheist"? Letting go of the idea of a god/God years ago, has been the most liberating, wonderful thing that has happened to me. I call it my religious experience in reverse... At my temple, our rabbi is gay. The Torah is kept in the library, as we view it as an important piece of literature, and Bar/Bat Mitzvah's are a time when a child, coming to age, give speeches on a chosen Jewish hero whom they identify with. This, according to our rabbi Sherwin Wine, who was one of the founders of Humanistic Judaisam, is a more meaningful experience than reading Hebrew from the Torah on a topic that a 13 year old would probably not relate to nor remember. I'm not a religious scholar by any means, and have only skimmed the posts on this topic. But to the atheists out there, you aren't alone. To the believers out there, Mazol Tov- believe in what works for you. My best friend is Lebanese, American born, who lives in the largest Arab-populated city outside of the Middle East (Dearborn, Michigan). I know her neighbors, her relatives and have been taken in with kindness and love. Anyway, I won't be entering in many of these discussions mainly because my feelings, my "take" on all of this has little backing because of my lack of knowledge of religious history. I can only speak from my own reality and 49 years on this earth. Terry www.addconsults.com In a message dated 1/9/2003 7:33:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, sl.m@shaw.ca writes: > I'm beginning to get worried here: am I really the only atheist on > the list?? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:42:22 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: prepare - njc - rc > Satan was in charge of music? I didn't even know he could sing. I'm not sure he can sing, but he sure can play guitar. Satan, aka Jimmy Page. ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:43:07 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Lucifer the music man In a message dated 1/10/2003 11:11:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, revrvl@chartermi.net writes: > But Lucifer being in charge of music could explain John > Tesh and ABBA. > Vince, how could you use Lucifer and ABBA in the same sentence???? I love ABBA!!!!! "Mamma mia, here I go again My my, how can I resist you? Mamma mia, does it show again? My my, just how much I've missed you" Of course in Adventures of Priscilla Queen of the Desert, I think it was Terrance Stamp who said "No more fucking ABBA" :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:48:14 -0800 From: "Mark Connely" Subject: Oh yeah.... NP: Burt Bacharch: South American Getaway bum pa da bum baby! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:56:24 -0500 From: "PAUL PETERSON" Subject: NY Times Review dissection Thanks for the thoughtful, meticulous dissection of Rockwell's idiot 'review'. I couldn't agree with you more. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:08:00 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni covers In a message dated 1/10/2003 12:15:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, ReckersL@ebrd.com writes: > Bob, I'm sure they don't have all you've got, but maybe you find something > there that escaped one of our beady eyes? > Yes Lieve, most of the Joni covers that are on that site are there thanks to me. When I first found it there were about 10, so I helped it grow substantially! And I would have added them ALL (I am obsessive that way in case you haven't figured that out) but they have to already have the artist in their database for you to enter a new entry. Thanks though for mentioning it. Bob, still amazed that there are more covers of Paul's "Yesterday" than there are of ALL of Joni's songs (2,000 to 1,200). NP: The Roots, Phrenology ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:12:12 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni covers In a message dated 1/10/2003 12:21:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > This site claims Joni covered "After the Goldrush"? Has anyone ever heard > of this or are they mistaking her for someone else? > Yes, this is an error. Either they're thinking of Joni singing backup vocals to Neil's "Helpless" in The Last Waltz or Ronstadt's version of After The Goldrush or something else entirely. Joni's never done it. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:13:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni covers dylan question In a message dated 1/10/2003 12:13:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk writes: > are there any details on what songs were covered? Les, the only ones I'm aware of are "Mr. Tambourine Man", and the one she just did at the Walden benefit. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 18:15:41 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: RE: Joni covers I should have known, nothing escapes you! Bob, I think your obsession is one of the very best I've ever come across! I guess that even if I hummed Amelia in the bath and the tape recorder was accidentially on, you'd know about it before I did! Have a great weekend - I'm just leaving the office now to start mine! Lieve. Bob wrote: Yes Lieve, most of the Joni covers that are on that site are there thanks to me. When I first found it there were about 10, so I helped it grow substantially! And I would have added them ALL (I am obsessive that way in case you haven't figured that out) but they have to already have the artist in their database for you to enter a new entry. ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:17:05 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: joni covers dylan question It's All Over Now Baby Blue - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 1:13 PM Subject: Re: joni covers dylan question In a message dated 1/10/2003 12:13:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk writes: > are there any details on what songs were covered? Les, the only ones I'm aware of are "Mr. Tambourine Man", and the one she just did at the Walden benefit. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:23:10 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: DJRD cover photo trying one more time because I cannot seem to find the answer anywhere Ive looked thus far..... does anyone know who the kid in the tux is on the cover of DJRD? and if you dont know..can you tell me where I might find out?? thanks ever so mags. sorry bro Bob..it's not Brei ;~P You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #19 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)