From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #13 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, January 8 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 013 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni Tribute Offer [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] prepare, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Prepare, The ongoing Bias, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Happy Music New Year to you All - VLJC ["Happy The Man" ] Re: Radio 2/ BYT cover ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Happy Music New Year to you All - VLJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: "prepare" (njc) pc and rc (religious content) [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: oh Pigs njc [sl.m@shaw.ca] self indulgent art ["J.David Sapp" ] NJC I wish to thank my mother whose bad parenting made this all possible.... [vince ] Re: 'prepare' njc PC [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: bi or vari njc ["Lori Fye" ] pigs (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: bi or vari njc [colin ] Re: 'prepare' njc PC [colin ] more Re: 'prepare' njc PC [colin ] Re: 2003 NAMM (SJC) ?? [Richard Goldman ] Post-traumatic stress disorder [sl.m@shaw.ca] TOP CD's of 2002 - VLJC [Scott Fifield ] Re: pigs (njc) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: TOP CD's of 2002 - VLJC [] Travelogue cover? [Steve Dulson ] Re: TOP CD's of 2002 - VLJC [Chris Marshall ] Re: TOP CD's of 2002 - VLJC [Rusty10113@aol.com] Re: bi or vari njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: pigs (njc) ["RSM" ] Re: pigs (njc) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: rc (religious content) ["Happy The Man" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:13:03 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Tribute Offer In a message dated 1/8/2003 12:24:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, mgmt@rachaelbdavis.com writes: > Remember . . . when prompted for where you heard of Rachael > Davis, you need > to type in: "Joni-List Tribute Offer" OK, I completed the transaction, Patrick...I didn't really get a prompt like the one you describe, there was a window for "Special Instructions" in which I typed the comment. If there's something else I need to do to get my freebie, let me know. Thanks for adding the Joni cover!! Next request: Get Rachael down to Greenville, SC to play The Handlebar. It would be a good venue for her. Enthusiastic Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:00:53 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: prepare, NJC . Since I believe in God and you don't, > > > you have made an incorrect assumption here. > Then I suppose I misinterpret everything you say. > > > > Now where I get irritated is when you pass judgment on things > > which, I reiterate, you know nothing about. > > For example, in response to Sarah's book summary, all you can say > > to the idea that Jews are hated because they don't let themselves > > being victims anymore is "that's bollocks and absurd" . > > > I wrote that because that is how i feel. I know this is how you feel. it is absurd. And the comment > is much less harsh than the suggestion that we who do not agree with > everyhting you and Sarah write about Isreal are jew haters. PLease show me where I ever said or inferred anything like that? > not only do you make rash assumoptions, you also are very good at > avoiding the point. > Like how do you justify the killing for centuries based merely on an > idea? There is no justification for it whatsoever, amen. Seems to me the Christians win the early bird prize on this one (crusades, inquisition, etc) Sorry Vince, anyway it was good to hear from you; although I'd have to read Sarah's post again and the whole context to see whether she meant what you understood. Laurent Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:10:48 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Prepare, The ongoing Bias, NJC Regarding Mike's post: there are too many wrong statements and it would take me hours to correct them all. And I've got to run in a couple of minutes. Funny but just before I read Mike's post, I sent him the following article which I just received, since Mike and I have this off-list discussion. Seems to me the best and fastest way to answer Mike is to post the following article. For some reason, Mike believes the propaganda from the opposite side, and each of us thinks the other one believes the wrong propaganda of course. And no, I have no reason to think Mike is antisemitic. Perhaps the following article explains in part why he feels the way he does. By the way, I hear journalists in Spain do a terrific job since they have access to places that U.S journalists don't. Laurent Stiff Right Jab: Time and Terror Steve Farrell Monday, Jan. 6, 2003 "The propagandist's purpose," wrote Aldous Huxley in "The Olive Tree," "is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human" - - to which we may add, "and to make one set of people remember that other sets of people are humane and motivated by high and noble aims." If this is the propagandist's purpose, it ought to be observed that the propaganda mills are running at full tilt when it comes to "mainstream" media depictions of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The demons are almost always Israeli gunmen, Israeli settlers and an old war-hawk general - the saints are almost always Palestinian men, women and children, suicide bombers who give up their lives for the revolution, and George Washington-like Yasser Arafats who lead the charge. Time magazine is among the best at this ploy - and its Winter 2002 Special Issue, The Best Photos of the Year, ranks as typical. In that colorful volume there were seven award-winning photographs focused on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Not one of them evidenced an ounce of support for Israel. Six of them, rather, cast the Israelis in a demonic dim and the Palestinians in a holy light. The one "neutral" photograph, if that is what it was, refused to mention who 16 out of the 17 victims of a Palestinian suicide bombing were - that is, Israelis - that is, Israeli men, women and children - that is, civilians who were minding their own business riding a bus. No crying Israeli mothers and children were depicted, no coffins hoisted through crowds of mourners, only an anonymously extended blood-stained arm, labeled simply "10," which for all we know might have been the arm of the Palestinian heaven seeker. Consider the list. The Victims Photo 1, titled "Mourning," is a two-page spread of three Palestinian women in the Jenin refugee camp in the West Bank mourning over a dead body. What caused their mourning? "Israeli tanks leveled the area," the text reads. Photo 2, titled "Left Behind" (a subtle allusion to the hypocrisy of George W. Bush's "No child left behind" campaign in America, which, apparently, turns its back on Palestinian children overseas), shows a Palestinian child, who lost his father and grandfather, standing on a bloodstained cement staircase. The bloodthirsty killers? "Israeli soldiers." Photo 3, titled "In the Bedroom," obviously a staged photo op, has Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat leaning over his debris-covered bed with his eyes bugged out in absolute horror, as he "[surveys] the damage to his private quarters on June 6." The words "bedroom" and "private quarters" were carefully inserted for maximum effect, as if to say, that which is most sacred was violated by the invading hordes. And who were they? "Israeli tanks had besieged his compound in the West Bank town of Ramallah." Nothing is said as to why the attack, nothing about the mounds of evidence linking Arafat to the murder and injury of hundreds of Israeli citizens, nothing about Palestinian maps that deny the existence of Israel, nothing about Israel's remarkable restraint in not ending it there and then for Mr. Arafat, which they surely could have. The Villain Photo 4, by contrast, "Old Man Alone," depicts Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon sitting alone, it appears, "at the Knesset in early November after surviving three no-confidence votes and buying more time to repair his tattered coalition." The message: Here is the villain - a stubborn old man, with archaic values - alone against the world. Get the point? The contrasts continue. The next two pictures depict two kinds of soldiers, those who defend the homeland and those who destroy homes. The Defenders Photo 5, "Walking The Beat" - as if these men were New York City cops! - depicts masked "members of al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an offshoot of Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement, patroll[ing] the Jabalya refugee camp to defend against a possible Israeli incursion" - with guns pointing down. The Aggressors "No Safe Havens," photo 6, depicts three Israeli soldiers "stationed inside a former Palestinian home that they had converted into a military stronghold" - - guns pointed up, ready to fire. Not Taking Sides "A Gruesome Tally," photo 7, as already noted, demonstrates perhaps more than any other how slanted Time magazine and the "mainstream" media are. When they finally might have given the Israelis a one out of seven chance for a fair shake, they refuse to mention that the 17 victims are, all but one, Israelis. The word Israeli is, in fact, hauntingly absent from the quote. Lincoln on Deception Abraham Lincoln observed: "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." Time magazine and the left, by making one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human, and by making one set of people remember that other sets of people are by contrast high and holy, have decided to play the propagandist against Israel and in favor of Palestinian terrorists. But guess what - we caught you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:07:43 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: Happy Music New Year to you All - VLJC > So far 2003 is shaping up to be a great year for music. Shawn Colvin is > playing here next month, and my dear, dear, darling Neil Finn (did I > mention supremely talented?) is coming back to town in March. One of my favorite Neil Finn concerts was here in Austin he brought his sixteen year old son to play guitar. The concert was awesome (I loved "Temptation") about half way through none other then a local showed up on stage. Shawn did about three songs with him. I thought this just a one shot deal but she did the same a year later (I was in Chicago at the time). Peace, Craig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:53:59 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: rc (religious content) anne asked >>And I have to ask the Christians on the list (and I'm asking in the most naive way, believe me) - Do you really honestly believe the story of Jesus Christ being God? I ask because I have finally realized that I never in my life thought it was literally true, even though I was raised as a Catholic. I kept waiting for someone to "admit" (to my mind) that it was all a metaphor.<<< my 2 cents even though i am not now a christian...i was raised as a christian but wouldn't define myself as christian now, though i embrace many, not all, of those teachings...as i do those of other religions...i came to interpret that what jesus was teaching was that he knew god within him & that all of us were capable of knowing god in the same way... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:54:07 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Radio 2/ BYT cover love the c crows but when i heard their version (over a store pa) i did not care for it either... >>I feel really embarassed now cause I just found out it's the Counting Crows version<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:54:08 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Happy Music New Year to you All - VLJC i have seen her a few times...check out her website she has her lyrics posted (or did at one time)- i agree she is a talented player singer & songwriter...cool to know she is getting some airplay... >>Maya opened for Jonatha when Kakki, Bob and I saw her in L.A. Where were you anyway Lindsay??? We were impressed enough to buy a short version CD of hers. Bob was especially blown away by her song "Long Way Home". I was flipping channels and saw She was on some morning show recently singing a song from her new CD with Art Garfunkel too. I don't think she'll be a flash in the pan, at least as a songwriter, but who knows, as talent has little to do with it.<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:24:04 -0500 From: "Erica L. Trudelle" Subject: thanks vince Hi Vince, I've also been missing from the list lately.....and your post was the first one I have read in a long time (the post responding to someone named Sarah, I think). I just wanted to say thank you for writing such a great post, I almost always enjoy what you have to say...you, Colin, and Bob M. always seem to hit home the most for me. Isn't the world an amazing, mysterious, scary, and beautiful place to be? There is so much to hate it seems, or at least easy to fall into the patterns of a hateful mind. I am trying to teach my daughter that the world is a joyful place to be...I am thinking that this will at least be a core part of who she is when she sees the not so joyful parts. It's so true that the more you search for answers the more you realize there is to question. Thanks again! Here's how I'll sign my name.... Erica Buddhist wanna-be Earthling Mama to little Nya. ps. Is Eminem really going to get an oscar nomination???? _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 11:57:16 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: "prepare" (njc) pc and rc (religious content) > Yes, I don't have any problem believing that, Anne. > Faith goes where logic fears to tread. Matter of fact, > if a Christian said that they didn't believe that > Christ was God manifested in human form, how can they > be a Christian? Thanks Bob! It's a leap of faith I can't or am unwilling to make, but I respect those who truly believe. Or, actually, I think pretty much all religious allegory is a metaphor. But that's just my own belief. It doesn't make the stories any less valid. In fact, sometimes I think if taken as a metaphor, some stories are actually more powerful! > It's almost a logical extension to believing in a > higher power...if you believe in a power greater than > us, would they not be able to create a manifestion of > themselves in other forms? And here's where we agree, sort of. To me, God is in everything. I am in awe of the power of creation and feel I witness it every day. And (here's where I'm not in agreement with most religions) I think the miracles are here and now, not at a specific moment or even carried out by one or several particular saviors, prophets, saints, etc. If I look at any individual on this list, for example, I am witnessing a miracle that is beyond my comprehension. > When I was a Sunday School teacher I tried to use the > analogy of water-ice-steam to explain how something can > exist in more than one form. That helps ME understand > it anyway. Really nice way of explaining it! I've used water to think about God too, but not quite in the same way. > > Great - now we have political AND religious threads > going! ;~) Yeah. Now we're talking about the two things you're not supposed to talk about in polite conversation :-) (Although, I think that politics is influenced by religion.) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:10:49 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: oh Pigs njc Yes, that white doesn't look quite done. Sarah From: "RSM" I, for one, am more concerned about how to handle the next Sunday brunch at Colin's home: "Um . . . err . . . I will pass on the soft boiled eggs this time Col'. No, its not the cholesterol . . ." | --- sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: And how exactly do you propose to get Kevin to come in an egg cup,Colin? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:28:47 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: self indulgent art One of Rockwell's complaints about T'log was its self indulgence. I don't understand this. Isn't all art self indulgent? Mustn't the artist indulge herself to create something unique? If Joni, or any artist, doesn't bend to commercial considerations or to public demands, then all her work is self indulgent, from Blue to Mingus to TI. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:17:22 -0500 From: vince Subject: NJC I wish to thank my mother whose bad parenting made this all possible.... Erica L. Trudelle wrote: > ps. Is Eminem really going to get an oscar nomination???? Yo, look, if you had one shot, one opportunity to seize everything you ever wanted- one moment Would you capture it or just let it slip? before I go back to lurkdom totally it would be wrong if I didn't make an Eminem comment now would it... if Em isn't nominated for Best Song for Lose Yourself, it will be the biggest non-nomination travesty in that category since Staying Alive by the Bees Gees was not nominated from Saturday Night Fever and there you have a sentence with Eminem and the Bees Gees in it and you don't see that everyday, now do you... Gage and I do that song really well together. I hope every grandparent takes time out of every day to read with your grandchild and then rap with your grandchild, or better yet, combine them both and read rap lyrics together. This opportunity comes once in a lifetime, yo. (The kid is developing an appreciation for Notorious B.I.G., Mobb Depp and Outkast. Parents just don't teach that sort of thing, it is a grandparent's job.) And this gives me a chance to say that yes, I was exalting yesterday with Em's 5 Grammy nominations and I was also surprised with how many albums I already own from the Best rap album category. Thank you Erica for your kind words. And note that Em's nomination for record of the year, White America, features your name prominently... White America! I could be one of your kids White America! Little Eric looks just like this White America! Erica loves my shit I go to TRL; look how many hugs I get! Vince, white rapper and wannabe groupie for Eminem ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:25:05 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "prepare" (njc) pc and rc (religious content) In a message dated 1/8/2003 2:57:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, anne@sandstrom.com writes: > In fact, sometimes I think if taken as a metaphor, some > stories are actually more powerful! This is true...take for example the story of Job, which most Biblical scholars agree is not an historical account but rather an epic poem dealing with the concept of "when bad things happen to good people". If you DO take it literally, then you're not as compelled to apply those lessons to your own life as you can be tempted to see it as a specific happening to one guy. By believing it to be metaphor (like Joni's song "Amelia", for example), it CAN be applied to your own life and has much more depth & power. > And here's where we agree, sort of. To me, God is in > everything. I am in awe of the power of creation and > feel I witness it every day. Truly. To me it's the greatest PROOF of God's existence. India Arie's latest CD has a song called "That's How I Know That God Is Real" that deals with the very topic. In my mind it takes a much greater stretch of the imagination to think that ALL around us just happened at random, like what are the odds of that? (Of course, I respect those who don't feel this way, I'm not a very good evangelist I suppose!) I think the miracles > are here and now, not at a specific moment or even > carried out by one or several particular saviors, > prophets, saints, etc. Again, I agree. Which is not to deny the miracles of Christ or of any other figure in any other faith, but to acknowledge that miracles do happen constantly. That God still talks to us, if we're willing to be prepared to listen. Bob NP: Dire Straits, "Brothers In Arms" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:28:17 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: "prepare" (njc) pc and rc (religious content) SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > Great - now we have political AND religious threads going! ;~) And a sex one, too, with all that hands-on info. I'm overwhelmed. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:50:58 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: "prepare" (njc) pc and rc (religious content) Yes Anne, point taken. When I wrote that, I was thinking that it's powerless as a force compared with Islam which has a very direct effect on people's day to day existence in Muslim countries (being required to wear the veil etc). At least we're not killed when we fail to do something that the bible says we should do. And we're allowed to say we're atheists or agnostics without being jailed or attacked. That's what I meant by powerless. Here in Canada, the Christians weren't allowed this year to have "Merry Christmas" erected all over town as they usually do - it was "Happy Holidays" instead. There was some grumbling, but mostly people accepted it. But sure, I see that it plays a much bigger role in people's lives in America than in the UK or Canada. Sarah From: anne@sandstrom.com Mainstream Christianity still has a stranglehold on politics in the U.S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:16:44 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: self indulgent art/ now with TOP CD's of 2002 question Precisely who is one supposed to indulge, anyway? Though I share Bob's opinion in being underwhelmed by Travelogue, the criticism of self-indulgence has always escaped me when it is leveled at an artist in relation to their art. Okay-I'm throwing this out to the list: What are your top CD's from 2002? They can include older music that you just discovered in 2002, as well. Stuff that you listened to a lot, and maybe still do now! In no particular order, these are my heavy rotation CD's 1 Lost In Space/Aimee Mann 2 Sea Changes/ Beck 3 HEM/Rabbit Songs (Laura Nyro fans should check this out) 4 Patty Griffin/1,000 Kisses 5 Kate Bennett/Over the Moon (thanks, Kate!) 6 Zero -7/Simple Things Honorable Mention (thrilled to hear them, but didn't listen repeatedly) 1 Joni Mitchell/Travelogue (don't hate me everyone) 2 Tori Amos/Scarlett's Walk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:19:50 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: oh Pigs njc sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > Yes, that white doesn't look quite done. > > Sarah > > urk! LOL! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:26:31 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc PC Colin, I've not suggested that anyone who disagrees with me is a Jew hater - nor has Laurent. On the contrary, I wrote that I believe most people in the West who oppose the government of Israel are NOT anti-Semitic. But Israel's Arab enemies are, and they were anti-Semites (or Jew haters, if you prefer) long before Palestine was ever an issue, which is an important point to note. Here is a diary entry from a 19th century Western visitor to the Middle East: "I have seen a little fellow of six years old, with a troop of fat toddlers of only three and four, teaching [them] to throw stones at a Jew, and one little urchin would, with the greatest coolness, waddle up to the man and literally spit upon his Jewish gaberdine. To all this the Jew is obliged to submit; it would be more than his life was worth to offer to strike a Mahommedan." (From The Jews of Islam by Bernard Lewis). Another good book on this subject is Myths and Facts: A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict by Miitchell G. Bard. There's stuff in here I don't agree with as it's written very much from the Israeli point of view, but it's a good starting place for anyone who wants to learn the facts. He cites a number of (what he calls) myths, like "Israel cannot claim that its 1982 invasion of Lebanon was defensive", then he gives "the facts" about that claim. It's surprising how many of the things we all believe turn out to be quite false. And what he says is mostly checkable, so you don't have to take his word for it. Sarah From: colin And the comment is much less harsh than the suggestion that we who do not agree with everyhting you and Sarah write about Isreal are jew haters. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:41:26 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: bi or vari njc Geez Colin, when I first read your subject line, I thought perhaps you were going to try dating women ... ; ) > so, whcih do i get-the varifocals or bifocals? I've worn bifocals for the last 3.5 years, and I've been fairly happy with them, although I often remove them for close reading. However, my friend Paty, formerly an optician, insists that the varifocals are the best. If I don't go through with Lasik (which I'm planning now), my next pair of specs will be varifocal. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:41:36 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: pigs (njc) WallyK wrote: lord! the pigs thread is killing me!!!!!! please please please keep it up. I think that's the whole idea, Wally. I read somewhere that when pigs have an orgasm, it last a half hour. I have no idea if it's true, but it kinda puts a new spin on the notion or reincarnation and what you'd want to come back as, now doesn't it? Smurph, where are you on this one? Waiting with baited breath for one of your pearls (before swine) of humor! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:48:06 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: bi or vari njc > If I don't go through with Lasik (which I'm planning now), > do you mean laser treatment? > my >next pair of specs will be varifocal. > >Lori > >~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:57:45 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc PC sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > Colin, I've not suggested that anyone who disagrees with me is a Jew > hater - nor has Laurent. Sarah you wrote: But because groups of Zionists decided this must never happen again, and they organized themselves and fought for the land Britain had earlier granted them, and became powerful, wealthy and educated in other countries in the West, as well as in Israel, we hate them! We hate them because they won't let themselves be victims again. I write: I am sure you can see why I would think what i thought. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:01:42 +0000 From: colin Subject: more Re: 'prepare' njc PC sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > Colin, I've not suggested that anyone who disagrees with me is a Jew > hater - nor has Laurent. On the contrary, I wrote that I believe most > people in the West who oppose the government of Israel are NOT > anti-Semitic. But Israel's Arab enemies are, and they were > anti-Semites (or Jew haters, if you prefer) long before Palestine was > ever an issue, which is an important point to note. Here is a diary > entry from a 19th century Western visitor to the Middle East: "I have > seen a little fellow of six years old, with a troop of fat toddlers of > only three and four, teaching [them] to throw stones at a Jew, and one > little urchin would, with the greatest coolness, waddle up to the man > and literally spit upon his Jewish gaberdine. To all this the Jew is > obliged to submit; it would be more than his life was worth to offer > to strike a Mahommedan." (From The Jews of Islam by Bernard Lewis). > you could look in the Bible and read how the idea 'ethnic cleansing' got started, how God told his people to 'clean the land', how he told his people to kill men women and children and animals.....to rid the land of those that were different. Assuming one believes it of course, that it is indeed the history of the Jewish people(OT). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:19:55 -0800 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: 2003 NAMM (SJC) ?? NAMM = It's the 2003 NAMM Concert ( http://www.namm.com/elton/ ), honoring Elton John and benefiting music education. Just FYI, however, their website says: "The tax-deductible tickets are available to NAMM Members via the association's Web site, http://www.namm.com. The concert is not open to the public; only participants in the NAMM trade show ( http://www.namm.com/tradeshow/ ) and their guests will be able to attend." Quite a star-studded line-up, I must say. Star-studded = In addition to Elton John, performers slated to appear include Vanessa Carlton, Ray Charles, Amy Grant, Bruce Hornsby, Norah Jones, Diana Krall, Michael McDonald, Rufus Wainwright, Nikka Costa, John Mayer, Jewel, Brian McKnight, Randy Newman, Take 6 and Brian Wilson*. Richard in San Francisco n.p. Rufus Wainwright - "Over The Rainbow" (unrecorded, from "Death in An American Family" documentary on PBS about Lance Loud Monday night) - ------------------------------------------ At 12:44 PM -0500 1/8/03, JMDL Digest wrote: >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 08:19:49 -0500 >From: Jerry Notaro >Subject: Re: 2003 NAMM (SJC) > >Catherine McKay wrote: > >> --- Happy The Man >> wrote: > Anyone attending the NAMM concert? >> > >> >> What is NAMM? > >National Association of Mitchell Maniacs. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:22:51 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Post-traumatic stress disorder A few people on the list have mentioned being depressed or having to battle with bad childhood experiences, so I wondered if this article, from today's London Independent, would be of interest to anyone. Sarah The eyes have it It sounds like a quack remedy -just moving the eyes from side to side to treat emotional suffering. But it works, says Julia Stuart, for anything from childhood abuse to post-traumatic stress disorder 08 January 2003 It sounds too good, and frankly too bizarre, to be true. After just three 90-minute sessions, people suffering emotionally after severe trauma such as rape, a car accident or abuse, can be rid of their debilitating symptoms. Add the fact that the therapy involves moving the eyes rapidly from side to side, and that it was discovered by an American while out for a walk, and one would forgive a sceptical raising of eyebrows. Yet the treatment, Eye Movement Desensitisation and Reprocessing (EMDR), is believed by some to be one of the most effective treatments for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). It has been used to help Britons affected by September 11, survivors of the Paddington and Hatfield rail disasters, and those traumatised by the Hillsborough football tragedy. Further afield, it has offered relief to those caught up in the earthquake in Turkey, the floods in Bangladesh and the wars in Bosnia and Croatia. EMDR was developed by the American psychologist Dr Francine Shapiro, who, struggling to come to terms with a cancer diagnosis in 1987, noticed that her distressing thoughts lessened when she moved her eyes from side to side. Her subsequent research, published in 1989 in the Journal of Traumatic Stress, found in a randomised controlled study of 23 PTSD sufferers, who included victims of rape and abuse and Vietnam veterans, that symptoms were dramatically reduced after one long session of treatment. The therapy was brought to Britain by Dr John Spector, a consultant clinical psychologist at Watford General Hospital. Impressed by a paper in the Journal of Behaviour Therapy and Experimental Psychiatry in 1991, written by the American psychologist Dr Joseph Wolpe (one of the founders of behavioural therapy), Dr Spector started using the treatment on his patients with "astonishingly good" results. Dr Spector, who then trained in the method under Dr Shapiro, has since organised the training of more than 2,000 British mental-health professionals, about half of whom work in the NHS. EMDR is now used almost exclusively at the PTSD clinic at Watford General Hospital, and is commonly used at the Maudsley in south London. PTSD symptoms include nightmares, flashbacks and intrusive and disturbing memories, believed to be the result of trauma too severe to process. The disturbing memories are held in the right hemisphere, the more primitive, non-verbal part of the brain, on which traditional talking therapies are thought to have little effect. Each time a person is reminded of the trauma, perhaps by a sound or image, they experience high anxiety and panic, which rational thought from the left hemisphere does little to quell. EMDR appears to work by stimulating connections between the right and left hemispheres. "It may be related to what happens in REM sleep, which we know is a time when we process information," says Dr Spector. "During that period the eyes are moving quite rapidly and if you have a nightmare and get to a very frightening point you wake up. What we are doing in EMDR is keeping the eye movements going to get the processing through that point to resolution." Clients are asked to concentrate on a visual image that represents the most upsetting aspect of their trauma, a corresponding belief such as "I'm bad" or "It was my fault", and notice what they experience physically. Meanwhile, the therapist moves his or her finger swiftly back and forth about 2ft from the client's face. About 24 movements are performed, watched by the client, who is then asked what they experienced. The process is typically repeated 20 to 40 times per session, which lasts from 60 to 90 minutes. The stimulation can also be achieved by tapping alternative hands, or by audio stimulation in each ear, but research has found the eye movement to be more effective. "The therapist doesn't talk much apart from asking for information such as 'What did you notice?' As long as we are getting new information then we're happy. All we look for is movement of information," says Dr Spector. "At some point in this process, which is often intense and emotional for the person, they get to a point where they begin to notice that it feels less and less disturbing. They begin to notice that their view of themselves in this situation changes in a more positive way. They bring more functional information into the picture which connects with the traumatic material and they start to understand, for example, that it wasn't their fault that they were raped." Interestingly, neurological changes also take place. Scans have shown a normalisation of brain wave-patterns after three sessions, with dormant left-hemisphere functions beginning to become active again and the right hemisphere dulling down. A client suffering from the effects of a one-off trauma, such as a road accident, would typically need between three and five sessions. Complex trauma, such as childhood abuse, can require up to 40. EMDR also appears to be useful for anxiety disorders, pain, panic disorder and body dysmorphia (where people have an irrational belief that some part of their body is disfigured or unpleasant), claims Dr Spector. It has been used to help with gambling, personality disorders and depression, but the evidence base is much less strong than that for trauma. A spokesman for the Department of Health said: "Compared to other treatments in this field, EMDR has been reasonably well evaluated... and the reported outcomes are generally favourable. The DH views any developments in this area with interest." For Tony Knibb, 39, a constable with Hertfordshire Police, the treatment was "miraculous". At one stage, the policeman's PTSD symptoms were so severe that he contemplated suicide. Problems began several weeks after attending a stabbing incident in March 2001. "It was an upsetting scene, but nothing I hadn't experienced before," he says. "There was a large pool of very dark blood outside a fast-food restaurant and the person who had been attacked was in hospital, and later died." Over the next few weeks, he thought of the scene more and more. "I couldn't seem to get the pool of blood out of my mind, and I started to have flashbacks. I then started having flashbacks of when I was in the army and had seen similar scenes in Northern Ireland. I hadn't thought about it for 20 years, but I could smell it and hear it. To all intents and purposes I was there. I wasn't able to focus on my normal life. I was overtaken by fear and a bit of guilt about situations I had been to and maybe could have done more about. "I became very focused on my own personal safety. We were having difficulties getting protective vests, and I train probationers, so I was with quite inexperienced officers. I felt vulnerable. I didn't want to go out. I thought: 'Any time now I'm going to get killed.' I was depressed and it got to the point where I was contemplating suicide. I couldn't see beyond these flashbacks. I was in this world I couldn't get out of." He turned to the force's occupational health department, and was eventually referred to Watford General. His first treatment was in October 2001. "It was traumatic because I had to think very carefully about the incidents, but I went out more relaxed than I had been in six months and more in control of my emotions." After his second session, he felt almost completely recovered. Several weeks later he dreamt that he had been sexually abused as a child. Slowly memories came back and his parents confirmed they had suspected something had occurred. The officer had a third and final session of EMDR in January last year. By March he was back to full operational duties. "I haven't had any flashbacks since. I've got the memories, but I'm not disturbed by them. It's put all the ghosts in the past. It's miraculous as far as I'm concerned. I've been in the police for seven years and I haven't enjoyed it as much as I have in the last six months." EMDR Association UK & Ireland, 020-8752 0429; PTSD clinic at Watford General, 01923 217554 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:46:08 -0500 From: Scott Fifield Subject: TOP CD's of 2002 - VLJC >Okay-I'm throwing this out to the list: > >What are your top CD's from 2002? They can include older music that you just >discovered in 2002, as well. Stuff that you listened to a lot, and maybe >still do now! > I'm going to just include stuff that was released in 2002. I'll even rank 'em tenth favorite to favorite. 10. Chris Connor - I Walk With Music 9. Alanis Morissette - under rug swept 8. Toby Keith - Unleashed 7. Sheryl Crow - C'mon C'mon 6. Rosemary Clooney - The Last Concert 5. Patty Loveless - Blue Grass & White Snow 4. Joe Nichols - A Man With A Memory 3. Pet Shop Boys - Release 2. Carly Simon - Christmas Time Is Almost Here 1. Joni Mitchell - Travelogue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:50:52 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: pigs (njc) In a message dated 1/8/03 5:42:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, anne@sandstrom.com writes: > I think that's the whole idea, Wally. I read somewhere > that when pigs have an orgasm, it last a half hour Anne, you would have been the last person I thought would bring this up, but since you did, I had to go to the pig website to look it up. Here's what I found on their discussion list (yes, they have a PDL) > < phenomenon that yes they sure do Orgasm and hard. As for Cindi looking for > toes to curl for sows it is the tail. When they are fully stimulated there > ears stand straight up even if they have the biggest floppiest > ears(sometimes on those only one ear will go up lol). Sometimes there ears > vibrate like their electricuted, sometimes its there whole body. I put bags > on their back for weight to AI them and some of the older gals will almost > relax so much there backline droops like a U.The 30 minutes is probably > scientific but usually more than 15 minutes standing and the breed will go > bad from lack of stimulation on her part.She will begin to come back to. > This happens hundreds of times a week on large farms ,64 girls today alone > and it never amazes me that they have so many mays of signalling heat. And > as Chad says she should be exhausted at the end a service . And as for the > Boys they are just as comical, have seen them dance and shake and grunt > only till they fill a thermos cup or two for you so they definetly > orgasm.HH >> > So, maybe there's more meaning to Joni's lyric: " I'll even kiss a sunset pig" :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:34:14 -0800 From: Subject: Re: TOP CD's of 2002 - VLJC Last year: hmmmm- Marigold Sky-Hall and Oates DED- Joni Still listening to the latter almost constantly and still cannot get enough. mack np: DED P.S. Have begun to listen to Mingus with almost the exact opposite reaction that I had with DED. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:37:47 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Travelogue cover? Is there a good quality scan of the Travelogue cover out there? I'd like to use the self-portrait as my desktop. The jpg on the Nonesuch site isn't of great quality. Private replies OK! - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:58:32 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: TOP CD's of 2002 - VLJC Tough one - this. Didn't buy many CDs in 2002, so I'd be hard pressed to list 10 full stop, let alone a *top* 10. So, I'll just mention the ones that have stuck in my head. They're not in any order, because by next week, I'd have changed my mind. And mostly I discovered these late in the year. Peter Gabriel - Up Doesn't grab me on an emotional level, but musically I love this album. Sounds very original and modern to my ears, and is probably one that will age rather gracefully too. Gemma Hayes - Night On My Side If you haven't heard Gemma yet, I really recommend that you do. I don't suppose the lyrics are regarded as hugely sophisticated by Joni standards, but what messages there are, are chosen carefully and exquisitely delivered. Tori Amos - Scarlet's Walk Oh my god. This might just actually be top of the pile for me, bought a few days before New Year's Eve. I can't stop listening to this at the moment, it's lovely. I'm so glad that Tori has taken a slightly more accessible direction again. And to provide 18 tracks, with hardly a duffer among them is some piece of work. Joni - Travelogue Didn't expect to like it... did. Everything else has been said, hasn't it? I owe Steve T thanks for introducing me to Gemma Hayes in the first place, and for sitting me down in front of Tori's latest and making me listen. Thanks. Rgds, - --Chris Marshall chris@hatstand.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:46:27 EST From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: TOP CD's of 2002 - VLJC My top ten Norah Jones-- lovely from start to finish, a hint of Joni of course helps a ton... Beck-Moody, consistent stuff I can't stop listening to right now Tori Amos-- gems from start to finish, what a surprise, because I didn't like her recent stuff at all, but this is gorgeous! Joni-- Just the Marlena and Amelia versions alone are worth it to me... Pink-- helps me through a workout, she's got some originality at least! that's all I can think of, but they were worth mentioning, the class of the year for me! Mitch in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:02:16 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: bi or vari njc >> If I don't go through with Lasik (which I'm planning now), > do you mean laser treatment? Yes, Colin. In fact I made an appointment today for a consultation, here: http://theeyecenter.com Dr. Boutros is highly regarded. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:03:53 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: pigs (njc) Regarding our swine-ish friends, I had received the following list of factoids with comments by email from someone (don't remember whom): If you yelled for 8 years, 7 months and 6 days you would have produced enough sound energy to heat one cup of coffee. (Hardly seems worth it.) If you farted consistently for 6 years and 9 months, enough gas is produced to create the energy of an atomic bomb. (Now that's more like it!) The human heart creates enough pressure when it pumps out to the body to squirt blood 30 feet. (O.M.G.!) A pig's orgasm lasts 30 minutes. (In my next life, I want to be a pig.) A cockroach will live nine days without its head before it starves to death. (Creepy.) (I'm still not over the pig.) Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour. (Do not try this at home...... maybe at work.) The male praying mantis cannot copulate while its head is attached to its body. The female initiates sex by ripping the male's head off. ("Honey, I'm home. What the....?!") The flea can jump 350 times its body length. It's like a human jumping the length of a football field. (30 minutes... lucky pig... can you imagine??) The catfish has over 27,000 taste buds. (What could be so tasty on the bottom of a pond?) Some lions mate over 50 times a day. (I still want to be a pig in my next life...quality over quantity) Butterflies taste with their feet. (Something I always wanted to know.) The strongest muscle in the body is the tongue. (Hmmmmmm........) Right-handed people live, on average, nine years longer than left-handed people. (If you're ambidextrous, do you split the difference?) Elephants are the only animals that cannot jump. (OK, so that would be a good thing....) A cat's urine glows under a black light. (I wonder who was paid to figure that out?) An ostrich's eye is bigger than its brain. (I know some people like that.) Starfish have no brains. (I know some people like that too.) Polar bears are left-handed. (If they switch, they'll live a lot longer.) Humans and dolphins are the only species that have sex for pleasure. (What about that pig??) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:35:08 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: pigs (njc) In a message dated 1/8/03 9:19:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, rstm@ayso-l.org writes:> > > Humans and dolphins are the only species that have sex for > pleasure. > > (What about that pig??) > Okay, since you asked, this is also from a pig site (Colin started this thread, so don't blame me.) I found this earlier today: <> Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:40:39 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: rc (religious content) John 1:1-14 Peace, Grace & Mercy, Craig NP: God of Wonders..... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 12:53 PM Subject: rc (religious content) > anne asked >>And I have to ask the Christians on the list (and I'm > asking in the most naive way, believe me) - Do you > really honestly believe the story of Jesus Christ being > God? I ask because I have finally realized that I never > in my life thought it was literally true, even though I > was raised as a Catholic. I kept waiting for someone to > "admit" (to my mind) that it was all a metaphor.<<< > > my 2 cents even though i am not now a christian...i was raised as a > christian but wouldn't define myself as christian now, though i embrace > many, not all, of those teachings...as i do those of other religions...i > came to interpret that what jesus was teaching was that he knew god within > him & that all of us were capable of knowing god in the same way... > > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com > Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs > Over the Moon- > "bringing the melancholy world of twilight > to life almost like magic" All Music Guide > ******************************************** ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #13 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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