From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #12 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, January 8 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 012 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- grammy's njc ["Kate Bennett" ] NJC Hate amd Shoah [vince ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #11 -- Tea Leaf Prophecy [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: oh Pigs njc [colin ] Re: 'prepare' njc [colin ] Re: Radio 2 ["Tamsin Lucas" ] Club 47 [Scott Fifield ] RE: prepare NJC ["mike pritchard" ] RE oh pigs njc [Ron Greer ] Prepare, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] DJRD [Cactustree78@aol.com] Re: RE oh pigs njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: oh Pigs njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: oh Pigs njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: 'prepare' njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Tea Leaf Prophecy [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: 2003 NAMM (SJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Radio 2/ BYT cover [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Club 47 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Tea Leaf Prophecy [Dave Cuneo ] Re: Tea Leaf Prophecy [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: 'prepare' njc [Jerry Notaro ] "prepare" (njc) pc and rc (religious content) [anne@sandstrom.com] NJC Grammy nominations announced ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: "prepare" (njc) pc and rc (religious content) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Radio 2/ BYT cover [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Happy Music New Year to you All - VLJC [Phyliss Ward ] RE: Today in History: January 8 [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: "prepare" (njc) pc and rc (religious content) [colin ] Re: Joni Tribute Offer NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] PS Re: Prepare, NJC [colin ] RE: oh Pigs njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Joni Tribute Offer ["Patrick T. Power" ] Re: oh Pigs njc [colin ] Re: Happy Music New Year to you All - NJC [Susan Guzzi Subject: grammy's njc >Not a bad bunch of nominees overall. But for Pete's sake...more multiple nominations for Sheryl Crow? She's not untalented, but all she has to do is sneeze and she garners multiple nominations.< i've loved all of sheryl's work up until this last record which irritated me so much i only played it once...the writing compared to her previous work was really baaaaaad imho ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 03:11:47 -0500 From: vince Subject: NJC Hate amd Shoah I have not posted since what, very early December, not that anyone has noticed nor cared. That is fine. I bore myself. And I have been overcoming my addiction to posting, as I have away from my computer going back and forth from Michigan to Chicago to tend to my father, who is coming along well, at last, and thanks for the good wishes sent his way. But I have been reading every post in the JMDL from various friends computers and even my own when I have been home. I thought there was nothing that would get me out of my new state of perpetual lurkdom until today. I have thought about this all day from the moment it was posted, all through work, all through aerobics and yoga, all through dinner and time with friends. sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > What's so special about humanity that we're not allowed to condemn > human beings out of hand? > I would consider that one of the most hateful and astounding statements that I have ever read I (and the last place I expected it was in the JMDL) until I got to: > THIS is why I oppose Islam (not Arabs) - What overwhelming arrogance and hate. It recalls nothing so much as Nazi hate literature speaking of "degenerate Judaism." To oppose another's religion, or to attempt to divide persons or a people from their faith and religion. I am not Islamic. I am not Islamic because I know God through Christ. Other people may know God ways that work for them. That is not a matter of my concern. But to "oppose" another religion - astounding in arrogance and hate. Anyone who knows me knows I could say much, much more but I will not. > I don't like Christianity either, that is a slightly more or less fair statement, lot of things I don't like about Christianity, but it is bordering on the same arrogance that judges another religion, another faith - it is at the root of all bigotry and evil to judge the faith of other people - to like or not like the faith that is real to others. The religious faith of some people is not for others to like or dislike. > but at least it's now virtually powerless, at least in the West, with > even many of its priests admitting they don't believe in god. "Many..." And when Colin called the poster on this line, we got the name of one minister in response, someone who I have never heard of, no doubt they exist, but to make such an astounding generalization based on one example - and go ahead, name a few more, it is still a handful - is overpreening disrespect and arrogance for the faith of other people, the height of judgmentalism, hate speech. I suspect that I know more Christian clergy than most people on this forum. Nothing of note; many of you know a lot more musicians than I do, because you are musicians. I am clergy. After the words posted about condemning people out of hand, opposition to a faith and the attempt to divide a people from their faith, this particular type of slam on Christianity, I cannot be shocked to see another slam on clergy. Simply put - and I speak as a bishop within my own church body - this is incredibly off base. But minor compared to the rest of the post. I am going to mention one other poster, for a reason, bear with me. Laurent and I have disagreed on things political. Laurent also knows that I base all of my theology and indeed my entire perspective on life on the Holocaust. Laurent did me the great honor of reading a paper that I wrote on theological perspective, made some very helpful to me comments, and supplied a valuable critique. And Laurent, I am getting to redo the paper and I am incorporating your criticisms in my revision. Laurent and I may yet continue to disagree on particular political matters - although I have no desire to dispute with him because, as much as we differ, I totally respect where he is coming from and know that if I were in his place, I might feel as he does. However, I am in my place, and feel as I do. Yet I trust and pray that Laurent would state that as misguided politically he thinks I am, that he knows that my life, my entire theology, is based on response to Holocaust. I take Shoah more seriously than I take anything else. Frankly, the death of one Jew does not occupy my mind as much as the death of the 6 million. And in my own way - right or wrong as the policies that I espouse stemming from my reaction to the Holocaust - my life is about never, ever letting hate prevail again and doing everything that I can to oppose Holocaust, and the hate the leads to Holocaust. I mention this because those who do not know me do not know how central, how utterly at the center, is the Holocaust in my thinking and theology, not respective of how one may agree or disagree with my politics that stem from that, at least give me credit for taking Holocaust at its ultimate seriousness. And through the years, I have discussed Holocaust in this forum as some may do me the honor of remembering. I have read the German and the English translations of the German where my theological German was weak, of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, of the attacks on the faith of a people as published in the Nazi papers, the hate that was presented as enlightened thinking by learned scholars (unfortunately, Christian) who debased and demeaned the faith and the religion of others. It all led to Holocaust. What paced the way for the actual Holocaust was the attack on the religion of the other, in case, the religion of the Jew. First within the German Church, it was the faith of the Jews that was opposed as a prelude to what was to follow, because if people follow a depraved faith then... you can see what comes next. What comes next is condemning people out of hand. What comes next is condemning people out of hand. And that was what was espoused in this post, incredibly. The condemnation of a people's faith and the defense of condemning people out of hand - and I merely quote the post - is hate. And hate leads to the the single most grievous crime humanity has ever seen - its ability to kill others because "war brings peace" and "we must destroy the village in order to save it" and "they are just Jews-gooks-sand niggers-Moselms" anyway. Condemn people out of hand. Oppose a religion of others. Dislike the religion of others. Condemn the clergy of a faith for not believing something, based on the interpretation of what one person said. Condemning people out of hand. I may want to lurk forever but when I see the precursors of Holocaust, I will speak out. The deaths of the 6 million, and the deaths of the others in the gas chambers and at Babi Yar and the deaths of the all too few Christian clergy who died at the hands of the Nazis for the opposition to Holocaust, for Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer who was hung with piano wire to make his death more painful because Bonhoeffer was involved in the plot to assassinate Hitler to try and stop Holocaust, the deaths of the 6 million will not let me be silent. There are reasons to support the Bush policy. (I think the reasons and the policy are wrong, but that is my value judgment; there are legitimate reasons to support the Bush policy.) There are legitimate reasons to oppose the Bush policy. There are a realm of options that may be chosen for a response to terrorism, and to Saddam Hussein, and there are reasons to suspect a link between Al Queda and Saddam, as well as reasons to say there is no link. These are all equally legitimate. Our task is to select from the myriad of reasons and policy options and choose with rationality and with deliberate concern for what is the reality which we must discern and the most realistic response to that reality. Those things MUST be discussed, and the JMDL is perhaps the best place of all to do so given the various perspectives of this generally erudite and intelligent and reflective community of people with many experiences that all shed light on the whole. But I suggest, with all the passion that is within me that: Condemn people out of hand. Oppose a religion of others. Dislike the religion of others. Condemn the clergy of a faith for not believing something, based on the interpretation of what one person said. Condemning people out of hand. (Never did I think I read these sentiments in the JMDL. I am saddened.) These options are unacceptable and are, in deed, hate, the same hate that led to Shoah. Will this hate lead to a new holocaust of a different people? At this time I would say no, not likely, but it is the first step. The first steps the Nazis and their apologists took in 1932-33 didn't indicate where it would end. Thank you for your time, those who have read this. Long time posters know I am capable of saying much, much more, and it is hard for me to limit my observations to this overly long post. I will not be available for disputation on this because I return to lurkdom, not because I do not relish a debate, which I don't actually, but because the continual posting of things that cause turmoil are not solutions and the reflective discussion that need to take place. Others can do that without me. I pray they do. My continuation in this discussion will polarize the discussion, in reality or in the arrogance of my own mind. I have said what I will say and I close in this way: I claim my faith which is rooted in the faith of Abraham and Sarah and their son Isaac and their descendants forever, and my kinship in faith with Abraham and Hagar and their son Ishmael and their descendants forever. (And might we see the strife in the world as not between peoples who are enemies, but between people who are literally in Abraham brothers and sisters - those are the worst fights after all, and resolved not in hate but in finding a way to return to the kinship.) I embrace all people as God's children out of hand, but not of God's love, and thus, my calling. And I sign my name in this way in an old way that I don't use much anymore, with addendum, but seems ever the way to do it this night: (the Rev) Vince Bishop American Apostolic Catholic Church and a member of the JMDL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 03:18:43 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #11 -- Tea Leaf Prophecy In a message dated 1/8/2003 12:01:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > >I also enjoyed your "20 performances" list. I was surprised to see "Tea > Leaf" there as I for the life of me find nothing of value in that song > whatsoever. So if you feel like it, I'd be interested to know what you > appreciate about it. Not so I can disagree, but rather so maybe I can > listen for what you're hearing. > One critic wrote that he couldn't, for the life of him, figure out what this song is about. Well, it seems pretty obvious to me. It's one of my favorites, with a dreamy arrangement (though not without strong percussion) and a very image-laden story. In fact, I like all of CMIARS, I always have and don't understand why it's not more highly regarded among us Joni-philes. No, it doesn't compare to Blue or Hejira, but it's a very enjoyable listen. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 09:05:47 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: oh Pigs njc sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > And how exactly do you propose to get Kevin to come in an egg cup, > Colin? Or daren't I ask? > > Sarah > Well i know the general gist of it but have not ever done it.My Danish friend Marianne will do it. It seems the Danish are good at this sort of thing. It seems one excites the dog with a hand and then squeeze behind the bulges they get on either side of their penis which makes them come. sounds like fun, not! bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 09:12:25 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc >Hmmm, interesting. Sure, wrong thinking can lead to >pain and suffering but I am not sure it works like >that all the time though. I do not think that if >people are 'good' then they will have only joy, or >that if people are 'bad' they will experience >suffering - like some kind of a thermometer for our >lives. > of course not, we are not perfect. Just ebcause it we are not going to be free of sufferingdoesn't mean we abandon the attept at growth. > > > >That sounds like what the Arabs are doing right now - >killing in the name of Allah. Interesting... > yes. they possibly copying Xtians whohave done this for centuries and still do. > >Joseph. > > >http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies >- What's on at your local cinema? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:14:36 +0000 From: "Tamsin Lucas" Subject: Re: Radio 2 I just heard a cover of Big Yellow Taxi on R2 - it sounds like Ronan Keating - has anyone else heard it??? It is truly terrible imho, especially the "doo wop wop s" towards the end.... eeeiiii!! _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 05:35:56 -0500 From: Scott Fifield Subject: Club 47 In honor of the 35th anniversary of this concert, I decided to dust off my copy and play it as I get ready for work. I'm struck by the song "Vali" - about a red-headed Parisian dancer who may have been "the first flower child." Are the lyrics available anywhere - I did a search on the website to no avail. It's a great song. Set List: Night In The City Gift Of The Magi I Had A King Morning Morgantown Vali Song To A Seagull Both Sides, Now Cactus Tree Conversation Come To The Sunshine Chelsea Morning The Pirate of Penance The Way It Is The Dawntreader Scott NP: Both Sides Now (1/8/68) ljirvin@jmdl.com wrote: >1968: Joni performs at the Club 47 in Cambridge, Massachusetts. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:38:49 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: RE: prepare NJC The 'worthiness' (or 'value' if you prefer) of the 'evidence' flying around this debate has become difficult to believe and I am disposed towards dropping the whole matter. Here are some representative comments: >>the land in question was won when Palestine attacked Isreal way-back-when for no reason at all, and Isreal won against all odds and kept the land (sorry for lack of detail - I never was good at remembering facts and dates in History class......lol).<< I am not 'laughing out loud' and see nothing funny in such a lack of understanding or context to back up the statement about political events. Obviously the writer is not very good at facts and dates, but where's the joke? >> And when the Israelis hear the rest of the world failing to support them, it is not surprising that they see it as anti-Semitism, or Jew-hatred - as more of the same thing they've experienced for centuries.<< It may not be surprising (in Sarah's opinion) for Israelis to see lack of support for them as anti-Semitism or Jew-hatred but that does not mean that they (assuming all Israelis think the same, which I don't believe) have interpreted the lack of support correctly. It is an opinion. It doesn't make their interpretation correct and it does not mean that all people, such as myself, who are totally opposed to the murderous activities of the Israeli army and government are Jew-haters or anti-Semites. Israel has become a pariah state because of its actions in the middle east (and in Latin America) which have been condemned time and time again by International courts and widespread public opinion. >> Israel is a much fairer society than any of the Arab states - more liberal, democratic and governed by the rule of law, and Israelis are generally a fair-minded bunch, willing to discuss and argue (in fact, enjoying discussion and debate). Which is not to say they are always right, and I'm not saying that. But there's a fascism within Arab countries that is scary, and which you don't find in Israel, except perhaps among the extreme right religious groups.<< I am unqualified to compare Arab society to Israeli society but the statement about Israel being governed by rule of law is a joke, unless the writer means the Israeli law as it stands and not any internationally recognised rule of law. Hijacking of ships and planes, torture, illegal detentions, kidnapping, pre-emptive strikes against civilian targets, doing the USA's dirty work in Latin America; all this is democratic and governed by rule of law? Bulldozing villages and destroying houses and stealing land in order to settle Israelis, invading Lebanon in order to fuck up the peace process etc... And as for the fascism in Israel only being on the extreme right, who's in government there? What are Ariel Sharon's political views? Look at his more than 50 years of terrorist activities and tell me he is guided by democratic principles. And to mention that Sabra and Shatila was only investigated because of Israeli demonstrations is laughable. Even the US Government couldn't stomach this atrocity and without them Israel was on its own and then world pressure led to the investigation. I could go on but I feel it would just drag on and on. Talk all you want, I'll watch from the sidelines and do the reading. At least there may be a chance of new information and revelation there; it seems here I'm reading the same old excuses and justifications and myths over and over again. mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:21:06 +0200 From: Ron Greer Subject: RE oh pigs njc colin wrote "Kevin, the new stud, is a bit of a plonker when it comes to plonking. He gets it in but comes right out again istead of ramming home and staying 'stuck'. so next time he will have to come in an egg cup and I will have to use a syringe to squirt it up the girl." you know youre reaching overload when this type of info is a welcome change to political discussions.... :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:27:19 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Prepare, NJC Colin wrote: . My comment has nothing at all to do with whetehr or not I or you are a religiuos scholar. it has to do with the the fact the whole idea of God and a 'chosen people' is just that-an idea. It is NOT the truth.it is merely something written in a book that you and others have chosen to believe and to kill over. It is not a fact. The very idea that people thru the ages have killed because of this ridiculous mistake is astounding. Colin, "God is a concept": this reminds me of the beginning of a John Lennon song. Thanks for clarifying your position which I failed to read right the 1st time. Since I believe in God and you don't, that pretty much ends the discussion with you on this topic. I'm not a philosopher, but I understand that being one and believing in God are not incompatible. By the way, a friend of mine recently recommended to me The History of Modern Philosophy by Bertrand Russell. Now where I get irritated is when you pass judgment on things which, I reiterate, you know nothing about. For example, in response to Sarah's book summary, all you can say to the idea that Jews are hated because they don't let themselves being victims anymore is "that's bollocks and absurd" . Colin, for God's sake (oops) read some books before passing judgments. I have read a wonderful book (Israel, the Crime to Live, unfortunately out of print) by a non-jewish leftist political writer, which is centered on this very idea and brilliantly demonstrates its validity via a thorough political and historical analysis. I am sorry to see you behaving this way. If you said for example: "Gee please elaborate on this, I don't get it" then I or I suppose Sarah would be happy to oblige. But when you adopt your Mister Right attitude I feel the opposite way. You already said that I like my posts accepted and not criticized. That is preposterous, on the contrary, I like them challenged by people who have some arguments and knowledge on the topic at hand. When I don't know something, I listen and I have the decency to keep my mouth shut. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 06:30:47 -0500 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: DJRD Someone mentioned this album and I just had to add my two cents..I heard Morrissesy say that the first time he listened to it he had to put it down,not because he didnt like it, but because it was so intense that he wanted to wait for a day he could devote full attention to it...I had a similar experience..It took me forever to listen to anythig past C & S but obviously once i heard hissing and hejira i was hooked but djrd i was worried about..kept hearing how "weird" it was and how un joni like it was...Once i finally bought it i was so taken by it I had to shut it off(i was driving) and re-listened once i got home...Candles burnin lights out I almost went into a trance..From struttin down cotton ave to being blinded by the silky veils of ardor djrd is not just an album but an experience..Peace and love to you all ***kevin*** p.s. If you really wanna laugh check out the grammys best female rock vocal catagory..Almost as hilarious ad Joni vs Britney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:40:42 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: RE oh pigs njc --- Ron Greer wrote: > colin wrote > > you know youre reaching overload when this type of > info is a welcome change > to political discussions.... :-) LOL! Amen! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:44:24 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: oh Pigs njc --- colin wrote: > It seems one excites the dog with a hand and > then squeeze behind > the bulges they get on either side of their penis > which makes them come. > sounds like fun, not! Wow. And they say romance is dead. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 06:44:24 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: oh Pigs njc --- colin wrote: > It seems one excites the dog with a hand and > then squeeze behind > the bulges they get on either side of their penis > which makes them come. > sounds like fun, not! Wow. And they say romance is dead. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 08:11:30 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc All the top military brass from here in Tampa at Macdill Military base have left for the Middle East. It's getting closer. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 08:18:48 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Tea Leaf Prophecy In a message dated 1/8/2003 1:23:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, spf321@aspi.net writes: > There's nothing I can say that will endear it to you if you > don't like it, as you've probably by now played it a few hundred times. I don't know, Scott...you made a very good case, such that I intend to go back and give it some more spins, listening for the things you mentioned. I very much appreciate your efforts! > it's like a movie I can picture in my mind. I think this may have been an objective of Joni's when she was working on the album, given the proliferation of videos at the time & the fact that several songs were made into films. > From your list, Bob - I love the songs you mentioned in your list - > although I've never heard the medley of Circle Game/Little > Green, which > sounds like it must be something else. I'll see if I can roll it up into an .mp3 and send it to you...ah, the joys of technology! :~) Bob NP: Ani, "School Night" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 08:19:49 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: 2003 NAMM (SJC) Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Happy The Man > wrote: > Anyone attending the NAMM concert? > > > > What is NAMM? National Association of Mitchell Maniacs. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 08:23:58 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Radio 2/ BYT cover In a message dated 1/8/2003 5:14:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, tamsinjanelucas@hotmail.com writes: > I just heard a cover of Big Yellow Taxi on R2 - it sounds like Ronan Keating > - has anyone else heard it??? It is truly terrible imho, > especially the > "doo wop wop s" towards the end.... eeeiiii!! I don't see where Ronan Keating has released this cover, but then again I miss a lot. I CAN say that Ronan Tynan just released a cover of BSN, but that's not really relevant is it? Unless there's a "Ronan Joni Cover" conspiracy of some kind. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 08:28:05 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Club 47 In a message dated 1/8/2003 5:35:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, spf321@aspi.net writes: > Are the lyrics available > anywhere - I did a search on the website to no avail. It's > a great song. Scott, you probably could have found it had you searched with its actual title, "Ballerina Valerie". Vali was the title the bootleggers gave to it since it was unreleased and they didn't have anything to match it up with. (Not that that matters, actually; many Joni boots have incorrect titles like "I Can't Go Back There Anymore", "Too Busy Being Free", etc.) Anyway, the lyrics are on JM.com, here they are for you & for others who may not have seen them: Down in the garden Under a leaf, she was smoking her keef And she was looking at stardom Everything's bright as she draws on the pipe And the bowl glows redder And things look better Mars is a ruby Saturn is sapphire, it burns with a blue fire Colors run through me Loosen my thinking, they're flashing and blinking And always changing, rearranging Ballerina, Valerie now Move me through your crimson dances Terragan, a red bandana Bring me down your silver trances Down in the garden Under an oak, he was drinking his Coke And he was looking at stardom Everything's bright as he draws on the pipe And the bowl glows redder And things go better with Coca-Cola ) 1967 GANDALF PUBLISHING CO. Words and Music by Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:51:00 -0500 From: Dave Cuneo Subject: Tea Leaf Prophecy Ciao joniphiles, Did I not read somewhere that "Tea Leaf Prophecy" was about how Joni's parents met? I like that song a lot too, partly because I have been in the military now for 26 years - 6 years active and the last twenty with the Reserves. "...and he looked so cute in his uniform". :~) Ciao, Dave. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:38:21 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Tea Leaf Prophecy CuneoDM@XYMID.com writes: << Did I not read somewhere that "Tea Leaf Prophecy" was about how Joni's parents met? >> Yes, you did. If anyone else wants to read about this, I suggest you go to the archives and do a search by writer -- Timothy White -- for one of Joni's better interviews. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 09:54:42 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc kakki wrote: > All these topics of war and politics and > anti-Americanism are constantly being discussed in my little group of > friends and acquaintances in L.A. Interestingly, all of them except for one > are on the left and all support regime change in Iraq. They are the ones > shouting me down if I express the slightest reservation! As for the revived > anti-Americanism movement (which is quite apparent and disturbing to > everyone I talk to) the knee-jerk reaction among all is that we would dearly > love to just pull up stakes everywhere and stop getting involved at all, in > any way, with other countries. Interestingly, that is a conservative, not liberal, axiom. One of the loudest voices opposing our involvement in Iraq is Pat Buchanan. He can hardly be considered a "lefty." And the vast majority of the American right thinks we should pull our troops out of South Korea. The traditional Isolationists in American History have been conservative. Even to the point of accusing President Roosevelt of orchestrating the attack on Pearl Harbor to get us into World War Two. That said, there is a difference between being Anti-war and Isolationism. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 07:17:57 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: "prepare" (njc) pc and rc (religious content) Sarah wrote: I don't like Christianity either, but at least it's now virtually powerless, at least in the West, with even many of its priests admitting they don't believe in god. I have to disagree here, Sarah. Mainstream Christianity still has a stranglehold on politics in the U.S. There was a big to-do about Mitt Romney being a Mormon and was it ok to elect a Mormon as governor of Massachusetts. It was a real issue that Joe Lieberman is Jewish and was on the Democratic ticket as VP. But, elect an agnostic, or "worse" an atheist? It seems the country isn't ready for such radical change. (I however would find it refreshing after the current administration's emphasis on right wing Christianity.) And I have to ask the Christians on the list (and I'm asking in the most naive way, believe me) - Do you really honestly believe the story of Jesus Christ being God? I ask because I have finally realized that I never in my life thought it was literally true, even though I was raised as a Catholic. I kept waiting for someone to "admit" (to my mind) that it was all a metaphor. lots of love ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:19:28 -0500 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: NJC Grammy nominations announced Oh my gosh, I had no idea!! Thanks for the heads-up!! Maggie > -----Original Message----- > From: kakki [mailto:kakkib@vzavenue.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 6:11 PM > To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com; waytoblu@mindspring.com > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: NJC Grammy nominations announced > > > I can't believe y'all's eagle eyes for detail missed the most > important > nomination of all (at least in JMDL-land!) ;-) > > Maggie's brother got nominated for Album Notes! > Congratulations, Maggie! > > . The Golden Road (1965-1973) > Dennis McNally, album notes writer (Grateful Dead) > [Warner Bros. WSM/Rhino Entertainment] > > Kakki, very happy about Metheny, Shorter and Mendoza, too ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:25:23 -0500 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Today in History: January 8 This is, of course, the same club we just went to on Monday to hear the 22 artists of today in a Joni tribute concert. Club Passim has quite a history. My best to you all, Maggie > -----Original Message----- > From: ljirvin@jmdl.com [mailto:ljirvin@jmdl.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:17 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Today in History: January 8 > > > 1968: Joni performs at the Club 47 in Cambridge, Massachusetts. > > ---- > For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, > consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: > http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:32:31 +0000 From: "Tamsin Lucas" Subject: Re: Radio 2/ BYT cover I feel really embarassed now cause I just found out it's the Counting Crows version - and it's Radio 2's single of the week. I think I recall some people saying they liked it, I guess I really didn't if I thought it sounded like Ronan Keating . >From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com >To: tamsinjanelucas@hotmail.com ("Tamsin Lucas"), joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Radio 2/ BYT cover >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 08:23:58 -0500 > >In a message dated 1/8/2003 5:14:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, >tamsinjanelucas@hotmail.com writes: > > > I just heard a cover of Big Yellow Taxi on R2 - it sounds like Ronan >Keating > > - has anyone else heard it??? It is truly terrible imho, > > especially the > > "doo wop wop s" towards the end.... eeeiiii!! > >I don't see where Ronan Keating has released this cover, but then again I >miss a lot. I CAN say that Ronan Tynan just released a cover of BSN, but >that's not really relevant is it? Unless there's a "Ronan Joni Cover" >conspiracy of some kind. > >Bob _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:37:59 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "prepare" (njc) pc and rc (religious content) In a message dated 1/8/2003 10:17:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, anne@sandstrom.com writes: > Do you > really honestly believe the story of Jesus Christ being > God? Yes, I don't have any problem believing that, Anne. Faith goes where logic fears to tread. Matter of fact, if a Christian said that they didn't believe that Christ was God manifested in human form, how can they be a Christian? There are lots of things in the Bible that I think ARE metaphorical (Adam & Eve, Noah, Job) but the belief in the miraculous creation of Jesus as well as his life & actions and especially his conquering death through resurrection are fundamental to me in terms of calling myself a Christian. It's almost a logical extension to believing in a higher power...if you believe in a power greater than us, would they not be able to create a manifestion of themselves in other forms? When I was a Sunday School teacher I tried to use the analogy of water-ice-steam to explain how something can exist in more than one form. That helps ME understand it anyway. Great - now we have political AND religious threads going! ;~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:47:02 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Radio 2/ BYT cover In a message dated 1/8/2003 10:32:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, tamsinjanelucas@hotmail.com writes: > . No biggie, Tamsin...we like what we like and no shame or blame for that. Shouldn't be anyway. I think it rocks, I love Duritz' voice anyway. And Joni SURE can't complain, as I'm sure she's raking it in since it's included on the Crows' CD, a single, and another release with Vanessa Carlton that's in Two Week's Notice and will be on the soundtrack. Ka-Ching!! :~) PS - Thanks for not going back to lurkdom! Bob NP: Ani, "The Million You Never Made" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 07:48:51 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Happy Music New Year to you All - VLJC Maya opened for Jonatha when Kakki, Bob and I saw her in L.A. Where were you anyway Lindsay??? We were impressed enough to buy a short version CD of hers. Bob was especially blown away by her song "Long Way Home". I was flipping channels and saw She was on some morning show recently singing a song from her new CD with Art Garfunkel too. I don't think she'll be a flash in the pan, at least as a songwriter, but who knows, as talent has little to do with it. Lindsay Moon wrote: > Then on the radio the other morning while on my way to work, I heard a most > interesting > singer/tune. I was so mesmerized, I called the radio station on my cell > phone. Turns out it was Maya Sharp singing -- uh, now I can't remember the > exact title -- something Witness. I had similar reactions on first hearing > Jonatha Brooke and Rickie Lee Jones. I'll see if I can check out her CD. > Let me know if anyone likes/dislikes her. Sometimes these people are > one-hit wonders, as you well know. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:03:27 +0000 From: "Tamsin Lucas" Subject: Re: Radio 2/ BYT cover - and me NJC Thank you Bob, I guess I am now de-lurked and should introduce myself! I live in London, am 27 and have to appreciate BYT really as that was the song that got me into Joni. When I was a teenager and very environmentally concerned my Dad mentioned a certain song he thought I'd like by someone called Joni Mitchell and bought me LotC on cassette which I loved. Dad then put the boot in by saying she went "all jazz" after that and I never bought anything else until I was at university and bought Blue... As punishment for the wasted years I force my father to listen to Mingus on repeat if I ever give him a lift in my car >From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com >To: tamsinjanelucas@hotmail.com ("Tamsin Lucas"), joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Radio 2/ BYT cover >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:47:02 -0500 > >In a message dated 1/8/2003 10:32:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, >tamsinjanelucas@hotmail.com writes: > > > . > >No biggie, Tamsin...we like what we like and no shame or blame for that. >Shouldn't be anyway. > >I think it rocks, I love Duritz' voice anyway. And Joni SURE can't >complain, as I'm sure she's raking it in since it's included on the Crows' >CD, a single, and another release with Vanessa Carlton that's in Two Week's >Notice and will be on the soundtrack. Ka-Ching!! :~) > >PS - Thanks for not going back to lurkdom! > >Bob > >NP: Ani, "The Million You Never Made" _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:06:19 -0500 From: "Patrick T. Power" Subject: Joni Tribute Offer With regard to the Joni Tribute at Passim the other night, Ashara wrote: >>24) Rachael Davis- My Old Man: When Rachael introduced this song as the song she couldn't get out of her mind when she first heard it 5 years ago when she was a senior in High School, (HIGH SCHOOL, no less!) After Anne (sweet, darling Anne) reminded me that I was the MOTHER of a High School senior 5 years ago, I was ready to *really* dislike this young woman! (kidding) Oh, this version was sweet, sweet, SWEET!! Rachael has the sweetest clear voice and was accompanied by a wonderful guitarist who stuck in a very unexpected chord- to my ears perhaps a Major 7th chord. Whatever it was it worked SO nicely and was SO unexpected! A+ for this version!!<< Rachael is going to be making major ripples in the acoustic/folk circles in years to come . . . in less than a year of living and performing in the Boston area (she moved there a couple of days after September 11, 2001), she won a Boston Music Award for Best New Singer-Songwriter. You can find out more about her at her website at http://rachaelbdavis.com. As a special offer to members of the Joni-List . . . purchase Rachael's CD, "Minor League Deities", via the CDBaby website at http://cdbaby.com/cd/rbdavis today through Wednesday, January 15 and you will receive a free CD-R live recording of Rachael which includes one of Rachael's unreleased songs, her signature 'a cappella' rendition of Bill Withers' "Grandma's Hands" and an amazing Robert Johnson medley. (With the exception of the funky, rockin' "Shady Grove", these tracks are all soundboard recordings.) 1. Grandma's Hands (Bill Withers) 2. Eighth Lit Window 3. Every Little Bit (Patty Griffin) 4. Miss Otis Regrets (Cole Porter) 5. Shady Grove (Trad.) 6. Southern Cross 7. Cupid (Sam Cooke) 8. Cocktail Wieners 9. People Get Ready (Curtis Mayfield) 10. Feather Bed (John McCutcheon) 11. Angel From Montgomery (John Prine) 12. Everyday (Buddy Holly) 13. Medley: Walkin' Blues/Crossroads (Robert Johnson) 14. Dimming Of The Day (Richard Thompson) To take advantage of this offer, simply type in "Joni-List Tribute Offer" when you're asked how you found out about Rachael. The live recording will be mailed out to you separately. Patrick Power Manager, Rachael Davis http://rachaelbdavis.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:08:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: RE: Today in History: January 8 Do you think it was a coincidence they held the tribute concert this week? Or maybe they planned it that way. Ashara and Anne did an excellent job reviewing the concert - I don't even have anything to add except to reiterate how stunningly effortlessly beautiful Rachael Davis' cover of My Old Man was - brought tears to my eyes. Mark Erelli (Carey) and Vance Gilbert (Pork Pie Hat) brought down the house as they usually do. Also loved loved loved Gregory Douglass' Court and Spark. Jenny - --- Maggie McNally wrote: > This is, of course, the same club we just went to on > Monday to hear the > 22 artists of today in a Joni tribute concert. Club > Passim has quite a > history. > > My best to you all, > Maggie > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ljirvin@jmdl.com [mailto:ljirvin@jmdl.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:17 AM > > To: joni@smoe.org > > Subject: Today in History: January 8 > > > > > > 1968: Joni performs at the Club 47 in Cambridge, > Massachusetts. > > > > ---- > > For a comprehensive reference to Joni's > appearances, > > consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of > Appearances: > > http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:16:17 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: "prepare" (njc) pc and rc (religious content) >It's almost a logical extension to believing in a higher power...if you believe in a power greater than us, would they not be able to create a manifestion of themselves in other forms? > many people believe that God did-humans and the rest of physical life. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:23:21 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Prepare, NJC Laurent Olszer wrote: > Colin wrote: > > . My comment has nothing at all to do with whetehr or not I or you > are a religiuos scholar. it has to do with the the fact the whole > idea of God and a 'chosen people' is just that-an idea. It is NOT > the truth.it is merely something written in a book that you and > others have chosen to believe and to kill over. It is not a fact. > The very idea that people thru the ages have killed because of > this ridiculous mistake is astounding. > > Colin, > > "God is a concept": this reminds me of the beginning of a John > Lennon song. > Thanks for clarifying your position which I failed to read right > the 1st time. Since I believe in God and you don't, > you have made an incorrect assumption here. > > Now where I get irritated is when you pass judgment on things > which, I reiterate, you know nothing about. > For example, in response to Sarah's book summary, all you can say > to the idea that Jews are hated because they don't let themselves > being victims anymore is "that's bollocks and absurd" . > I wrote that because that is how i feel. it is absurd. And the comment is much less harsh than the suggestion that we who do not agree with everyhting you and Sarah write about Isreal are jew haters. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 11:27:55 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Tribute Offer NJC In a message dated 1/8/2003 11:06:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, mgmt@rachaelbdavis.com writes: > you > will receive a free CD-R live recording of Rachael which includes one of > Rachael's unreleased songs, her signature 'a cappella' rendition of Bill > Withers' "Grandma's Hands" and an amazing Robert Johnson > medley. Thanks for the offer Patrick...after all I've heard, I'M IN! Love her choice of covers, the Thompson, Cooke & Mayfield ones especially...gee whiz couldn't she have done a Joni tune? ;~) Bob, thinking about singing Grandma's Hands with Julius, Les and all on the deck at the Full Moon... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:29:39 +0000 From: colin Subject: PS Re: Prepare, NJC > Since I believe in God and you don't, > not only do you make rash assumoptions, you also are very good at avoiding the point. Like how do you justify the killing for centuries based merely on an idea? An idea which has no proof? The reason i feel you arguments have validtoty is ebcause you back them up with a story, an idea created by men, and present it as fact. I ahve no problem with people believing whatever gets them thru but to use such a belief to bamboozle people, indeed to kill people, and claim it is the Truth is far from Godly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:49:06 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: oh Pigs njc lord! the pigs thread is killing me!!!!!! please please please keep it up. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Catherine McKay Enviado el: Miercoles, 08 de Enero de 2003 08:44 a.m. Para: colin; sl.m@shaw.ca CC: joni@smoe.org; joni-digest@smoe.org Asunto: Re: oh Pigs njc --- colin wrote: > It seems one excites the dog with a hand and > then squeeze behind > the bulges they get on either side of their penis > which makes them come. > sounds like fun, not! Wow. And they say romance is dead. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:24:52 -0500 From: "Patrick T. Power" Subject: RE: Joni Tribute Offer Bob wrote: >>Thanks for the offer Patrick...after all I've heard, I'M IN! Love her choice of covers, the Thompson, Cooke & Mayfield ones especially...gee whiz couldn't she have done a Joni tune?<< Okay . . . the original offer was for CDs that had already been burned. But, after a few minutes of re-thought, I will add "Big Yellow Taxi" to the mix. Since it's probably one of Joni's most covered songs, I wasn't so sure that it would be all that much of an added attraction, but since Bob was so enthusiastic, Joni *will* be represented on the CD you receive if you order "Minor League Deities". The CDBaby URL again is: http://cdbaby.com/cd/rbdavis Remember . . . when prompted for where you heard of Rachael Davis, you need to type in: "Joni-List Tribute Offer" Patrick Power http://rachaelbdavis.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:24:06 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: oh Pigs njc Wally Kairuz wrote: >lord! the pigs thread is killing me!!!!!! please please please keep it up. >wallyK > > > with your help,I am sure I could....... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:44:45 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Happy Music New Year to you All - NJC Hello, Maya Sharp toured, at least here in Chicago, with Art Garfunkel and appears on his latest cd. I have a friend who saw the show and loved her. She also has the CD, which I've heard a little of - - yeah, she's sounds pretty good. Peace, Susan - --- Phyliss Ward wrote: > Maya opened for Jonatha when Kakki, Bob and I saw her in L.A. Where were you > anyway Lindsay??? We were impressed enough to buy a short version CD of hers. > Bob was especially blown away by her song "Long Way Home". I was flipping > channels and saw She was on some morning show recently singing a song from her > new CD with Art Garfunkel too. I don't think she'll be a flash in the pan, at > least as a songwriter, but who knows, as talent has little to do with it. > > > Lindsay Moon wrote: > > > Then on the radio the other morning while on my way to work, I heard a most > > interesting > > singer/tune. I was so mesmerized, I called the radio station on my cell > > phone. Turns out it was Maya Sharp singing -- uh, now I can't remember the > > exact title -- something Witness. I had similar reactions on first hearing > > Jonatha Brooke and Rickie Lee Jones. I'll see if I can check out her CD. > > Let me know if anyone likes/dislikes her. Sometimes these people are > > one-hit wonders, as you well know. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #12 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)