From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #8 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, January 7 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 008 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- mack njc ["Brenda" ] Re: The first to make "world music"? ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Club Passim [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #7 - write the Times? [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: NYT review of T'Log [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #7 - still alive..... [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: 'prepare' njc [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: prepare NJC ["kakki" ] Re: 'prepare' njc [sl.m@shaw.ca] Joni tribute night at Passim [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: 'prepare' njc [Randy Remote ] I won?!!! [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: NYT review of T'Log [Randy Remote ] Re: 'prepare' njc [sl.m@shaw.ca] Joni Mitchell Tribute night at Club Passim [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: 'prepare' njc [Randy Remote ] Today's Library Links: January 7 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Travelogue thoughts [Scott Fifield ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:42:07 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: mack njc Is mack still on the list? Happy New Year, all! Brenda - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:02:58 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: The first to make "world music"? I have to admit I haven't read all of Karen's book. I think she nicked that bit about Joni predating Paul Simon's "invention" of world music. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:38:48 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: NYT review of T'Log I've always been slightly jealous of critics. They get paid to listen to music, go to movies, read books and see plays. They are also afforded a certain amount of social prestige, as if their opinion counts for just a little more than a mere mortal because they are paid to give it. On the other hand, I've never had much use for them. A lot of people use critics as gages for their own tastes: "If Roger Ebert likes this movie, I'll hate it.," Etc. I don't use critics at all and rarely read a movie review or music review unless I am interested in the movie or the musician being criticized or reviewed. We wouldn't have read it (at least I wouldn't have) if it hadn't been about Joni Mitchell, and we definitely wouldn't be discussing it. The New York Times review of Travelogue was well-written and everything that a critique should be: long-winded, slightly pompous, critical (ahem!) and trying, earnestly, to be interesting. I've never read a critic's work that wasn't in some way trying to sound worthy of being read. There's nothing wrong with that - it's the nature of the artform. If the writer had said: "Travelogue is bad. Don't listen to it," would he be a critic? No - just a regular joe saying he thinks this record sucks, which is really what every critic is behind their white-collars, good vocabulary and rhythmic syntax. Just some thoughts on criticism. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:48:47 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Club Passim Hope y'all are listening to this web broadcast...the audio quality from RealPlayer sucks, but I can tell that the show and the music are great! Wish I was there. Bob NP: Urge For Going ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:54:16 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #7 - write the Times? In a message dated 1/6/2003 5:41:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > I find this an odd article. How is the fact that the writer lived near Joni > in the 70s relevant when evaluating the recent project? Hmmm, so Joni was a > 20th century American Schubert, but with the release of a single album is > now a self-absorbed hack? How can one admit a prejudice against the very > concept of the album, then go on to use words like "terrible" and > "abomination"? > > Bottom line, he liked the old Joni. I agree in part with his assesment of > the new lp, but this article is ridiculous. What's happened to the Times? > It's the only daily that I can stand to read, but its "pop" reviews suck, > vascillating between pretentiousness and idiocy. You articulate your views well. Why not write a letter to the Times: letters@nytimes.com. 150 words or less, indclude name, phone and address Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:00:37 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NYT review of T'Log In a message dated 1/6/2003 9:40:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > I don't use critics at all and rarely read a movie review or music review > unless I am interested in the movie or the musician being criticized or > reviewed. We wouldn't have read it (at least I wouldn't have) if it hadn't > been about Joni Mitchell, and we definitely wouldn't be discussing it. > I typically use reviews collectively; that is, if something is getting raves across the board (as was the case with Beck's "Sea Change") I'll go ahead and pick it up. And vice versa if I read a lot of bad reviews. BUT I do love a bunch of stuff that was not reviewed favorably and loathed some stuff that was highly praised. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm somewhat of a sucker for the things. I used to subscribe to Record Review magazine Bob NP: Joni, "Two Grey Rooms", playing at Club Passim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 22:06:21 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #7 - still alive..... I've had three experiences in the last couple of months with people asking me if Joni Mitchell was dead. From the arse cashier at Borders..then my brother-in-law..and a niece. The inquiry from my brother-in-rile..was *probably* legitimate. The other two.. was to get my reaction..knowing damn well she is very much alive. Yes..this upsets..really upsets me..but I try to not let it show. Well, that would make me somewhat uneasy, too. It makes me conclude that Joni is just not in the public eye very much -- though we think she is because we're all focused on her so much. I remember a number of years ago, while at a party, someone insisted that Phoebe Snow was quite dead (not true then or now). All I could do was insist she wasn't/isn't. By the way, with the recent discussions of Phoebe's work here -- in my book, the hands-down winner among her albums is Second Childhood -- exquisite pop/jazz with dreamy arrangments. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 21:25:39 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc Colin, if you think anti-Semitism is vague, I will use Jew-hating instead. You said that the propaganda from all sides is sick and disgusting. Do you include your own views in that description? Or do the rest of us only THINK we are right, whereas you ARE right? Yes, there is slander from Jews, Arabs and Christians against homosexuals, but no-one surpasses Muslims and Arabs for anti-homosexual opinions and laws. Try going to Damascus, Baghdad or Tripoli to exercise your right to be gay. I don't accept that Jewish children are taught to hate Arabs in the same way that Arabs are taught to hate Jews. On the contrary, in my experience Jewish teachers go out of their way to teach their children NOT to hate, and Jewish society generally contains many people who support the Palestinians and who try to understand them. (Or it did until the suicide bombing started.) For example, it was because of demonstrations in Israel that an inquiry was set up to establish what happened in Sabra and Shatila. You would NEVER, NEVER find Arabs demonstrating in defence of their Jewish brothers and sisters. Please take that distinction seriously, Colin, because it has moral significance. Israel is a much fairer society than any of the Arab states - more liberal, democratic and governed by the rule of law, and Israelis are generally a fair-minded bunch, willing to discuss and argue (in fact, enjoying discussion and debate). Which is not to say they are always right, and I'm not saying that. But there's a fascism within Arab countries that is scary, and which you don't find in Israel, except perhaps among the extreme right religious groups. You wrote an odd thing - that "[i]deas are NOT and NEVER will be truth". What do you take "truth" to be, if not an idea? The proposition "two plus two equals four" is true. It is also an idea. There is no truth in the world. Truth is a quality that attaches to ideas, or more accurately, to propositions. It is a quality that is given to certain propositions by human beings. Truth has no existence that is independent of propositions, and propositions are creations of the human mind. Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:04:34 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: prepare NJC Sarah wrote: > There's also an excellent piece in the latest issue of Vanity Fair on > how the CIA opposes the spread of democracy in Iraq and the Middle > East generally (as does the British intelligence community). The > article also claims that it's the CIA that is suppressing information > on the pre-September 11 links between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin > Laden - because the intelligence is coming from the Iraqi National > Congress (INC) in London, which the CIA doesn't like because the INC > is a pro-democracy group. I quoted part of the article here last week. I've lent the magazine out and don't have it handy, but my interpretation was that the INC alleged it was treated duplicitiously by the CIA in the 90s - sometimes supported and sometimes hung out to dry. The article stressed that the current CIA is now re-evaluating and re-analyzing the 100 + reports going back to 1992 which documented cooperation between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida. I am as clueless as most as to why the CIA suppressed so much intelligence in the 90s - though there is speculation that the Clinton administration did not want to get embroiled in a war while everything was going along relatively rosy during the 90s. It was also alleged in the article that first Bush administration gave the impression it would help the INC and then left them hanging when they tried to overthrow Hussein after the Gulf War. I had an interesting chat recently with a friend who used to be in Naval intelligence. He has a very interesting perspective having served all over the mid-east and mediterranean for several years in the 80s and early 90s. I told him that I had always assumed my entire life that the U.S. was completely protected from attacks such as those of 9/11. If an airplane is going erratically off course, then it would be immediately intercepted in some way. If terrorist cells were plotting an attack, it would be known and thwarted behind the scenes. He told me that I was right to assume that prior to the end of the Cold War. He said that after the Cold War ended, the U.S. cut back enormously on military support and personnel around the world because it was thought to no longer be needed once the Soviet Union and its satellites fell. The catch is that all of those military personnel were involved in collecting intelligence on a daily basis all over the world and feeding it to the CIA and other agencies. When the military was cut back, the CIA lost a huge part of its intelligence arm. As for U.S. support of Israel, someone should hunt down the information on the billions in money, aid and military support the U.S. gives to other/Muslim countries in the middle east. I've seen this data, but am too lazy to put it together right now. I think it should be part of the discussion, however. Also, I've read that the European Union has given hundreds of millions to the PLO over the years to ostensibly help the Palestinian people. Unfortunately, most of it has allegedly (apparently) gone into weapons, funding terrorism and Arafat's Swiss bank accounts. All of these aspects need to be part of the equation, too. I want peace, love and understanding, too, but I think before we can get there, we need to really learn a whole lot more about the situation that we've sort of ignored for many years, thinking it was not our problem or business. Part of me would still like to think that way, but I feel now that many are being forced to look at it and find some real solutions. With knowledge comes understanding. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 22:06:39 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc Fred, take a look at this month's Vanity Fair. It sets out some of the evidence of Iraqi complicity in September 11, and explains why the CIA has tried to play it down. Sarah Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 01:57:15 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc "kakki" writes: >In the case of Iraq there is at least a >growing compilation of evidence that they have assisted terrorists who >have directly attacked the U.S. Actually, there is no definitive credible evidence of this, and, in fact, the US has been spreading disinformation (e.g., the recent lie about Iraq providing nerve gas to Al-Qaeda) claiming such a link. Daniel Ellsberg points out that disinformation has historically been used by the US government; certainly in the Vietnam War, and now, too. He fears that if the UN inspectors come up empty the US will manufacture a pretext to invade anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:16:00 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Joni tribute night at Passim I should be going to bed, but instead I thought I'd report in on the Joni tribute evening. We were well represented, with Ashara, Maggie McNally, ChuckE, Jenny Goodspeed and her husband Eric, Bob (Smurph) Murphy, and Eric (whose last name I won't butcher here in public). The venue for the evening was Passim, formerly known as Club 47. Joan Baez got her start there. There were 22 acts, each one doing one Joni song. As you might guess, the selection was pretty predictable, with only Vance Gilbert being particularly brave, doing a wonderful and distinct version of Goodbye Pork Pie Hat. Otherwise, it was like the roster of songs from "Hits." Speaking of which, the hits of the evening were: the aforementioned Vance Gilbert's GPPH. Jazzy, inventive, true to the spirit of the original, although not the letter of it. Rachael Davis's angelic "My Old Man." The notes just melted in her mouth. Very sweet! Gregory Douglass doing a faithful, but energetic version of Court and Spark. He first described a dream he had about Joni. In it, he met her in the 60s and said she was going to be really huge. She just smiled, but he insisted, "No, really! You have no idea!" Hanneke Cassel playing a fiddle (or should I say violin in this case?) version of Morning Morgantown, with guitar and mandolin accompaniment. Oen Kennedy's Black Crow, complete with realistic sounding crow sounds at the end. Chris Obrien's guitar of Come in from the Cold gave new dimension to the song, even if he ran out of words before the end of the song. I'd have to include Mark Erelli for doing a hilarious rockabilly version of Carey. As we clapped in time, he quipped that Joni wouldn't allow us to do that. (Maybe you had to be there.) There were some misses as well. Dave Dersham offered a lukewarm version of Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire. Bridget Matros did what can only be described as a schizophrenic version of Cactus Tree, first whispering, then painfully wailing through the verses. An artist who bills herself as "Ari" did an unusual version of Blue that made it sound like it was written by Vanessa Carlton. Rob Siegel performed Both Sides Now, but might have been better off doing something more uptempo, since that's how he did BSN. And, we were mentioned a couple of times. I told the announcer that we had a contingent there from the JMDL. The reaction from everyone within earshot was priceless (kind of like "wow! really?") So he announced that we were there. Rose Polenzani performed Willy, but first made a point of thanking our own Yael for helping her out in practicing. Kudos to Yael! There were also two look alikes. Marc Herman was a dead ringer for Les Ross. Merrie Amsterberg could play our own Kate Bennet in the JMDL movie. (Movie? What movie?) I thought of how I wished you were all there with us. I thought of the wonderful community we have here, and how somehow a gathering of a few of us is like reaching across the world to everyone. Thanks to our Mama Lion, Ashara for arranging this mini-fest. Ashes, you're the best! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:18:39 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > Colin, if you think anti-Semitism is vague, I will use Jew-hating instead. > > You said that the propaganda from all sides is sick and disgusting. > Do you include your own views in that description? Or do the rest of > us only THINK we are right, whereas you ARE right? > > Yes, there is slander from Jews, Arabs and Christians against > homosexuals, but no-one surpasses Muslims and Arabs for > anti-homosexual opinions and laws. Try going to Damascus, Baghdad or > Tripoli to exercise your right to be gay. > > I don't accept that Jewish children are taught to hate Arabs in the > same way that Arabs are taught to hate Jews. On the contrary, in my > experience Jewish teachers go out of their way to teach their > children NOT to hate, and Jewish society generally contains many > people who support the Palestinians and who try to understand them. > (Or it did until the suicide bombing started.) For example, it was > because of demonstrations in Israel that an inquiry was set up to > establish what happened in Sabra and Shatila. You would NEVER, NEVER > find Arabs demonstrating in defence of their Jewish brothers and > sisters. Please take that distinction seriously, Colin, because it > has moral significance. Israel is a much fairer society than any of > the Arab states - more liberal, democratic and governed by the rule > of law, and Israelis are generally a fair-minded bunch, willing to > discuss and argue (in fact, enjoying discussion and debate). Which > is not to say they are always right, and I'm not saying that. But > there's a fascism within Arab countries that is scary, and which you > don't find in Israel, except perhaps among the extreme right > religious groups. > Just because a society has democracy and is more or less free doesn't mean it is not brutal. If you look into British or US foreign policy over the last 200 years you can see this plainly. Afterall, the "free" democracies were the slave traders who attacked other countries, which still goes on in nefarious ways. You are mixing up social customs with governmental aggression. > > You wrote an odd thing - that "[i]deas are NOT and NEVER will be truth". > > What do you take "truth" to be, if not an idea? The proposition "two > plus two equals four" is true. It is also an idea. > > There is no truth in the world. Sit by a waterfall for an hour and tell me there is no truth. If idea = truth as you say, what about a lie? That is an idea, but it is not truth. Idea is an image in the memory banks of the brain. The idea of a tree is not a tree. > Truth is a quality that attaches to > ideas, or more accurately, to propositions. It is a quality that is > given to certain propositions by human beings. Truth has no > existence that is independent of propositions, and propositions are > creations of the human mind. > > Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:23:44 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: I won?!!! Aw shucks, Bob. Miss Congeniality? And I get a CD??? OK, so now I'm at least mentally doing the dog dance that JR (the little white dog) did when he won the Westminster Dog Show a couple of years ago. If you didn't see it, you missed the "sports" highlight of the year. Damn, that dog just knew he'd won. (Someone back me up here...) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 20:24:20 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: NYT review of T'Log I have picked up a few things that I really liked after reading a descriptive review. As a Joni fan, the NYT review would not have detered me from buying it. I guess for the casual and curious, it might. I generally like to read reviews, taking them with the appropriate grain of salt. At least the music is being discussed, and I would rather read about music than cooking or football or.... RR SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > I typically use reviews collectively; that is, if something is getting raves > across the board (as was the case with Beck's "Sea Change") I'll go ahead and > pick it up. And vice versa if I read a lot of bad reviews. BUT I do love a > bunch of stuff that was not reviewed favorably and loathed some stuff that > was highly praised. > > I guess what I'm saying is that I'm somewhat of a sucker for the things. I > used to subscribe to Record Review magazine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 22:53:02 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc I didn't say idea = truth. Not all ideas are true. I said truth is a quality that attaches to propositions, not to the world. In other words, truth is about LANGUAGE and perhaps thought. It is about us. It is correct to say that the idea of a tree is not a tree. But there is nothing about a tree (or a waterfall) that is connected to truth. It would be meaningless to say "this tree is true". Things in the world cannot be true or false. Only propositions can be true or false. The world as we know it (as we think and talk about it) is a series of facts and ideas, which we express as propositions. So "this tree is green" may be true. But that is a sentence (a proposition), which is a human construct. It is not the world. It is not the tree. We do not have any direct knowledge of the world. I would also say that an idea is not an image in the memory banks of the brain. The idea of "the Good" is not an image in the memory banks of anyone's brain. It may be something that people think about, but it is not the same thing as their thought processes. Sarah At 8:18 PM -0800 01/06/2003, Randy Remote wrote: Sit by a waterfall for an hour and tell me there is no truth. If idea = truth as you say, what about a lie? That is an idea, but it is not truth. Idea is an image in the memory banks of the brain. The idea of a tree is not a tree. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:00:02 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Joni Mitchell Tribute night at Club Passim How can you not love a club that has this on their regular menu? "Painted Pony"- This selection is captive on the carousel of time, using only seasonal, local produce. We (Ashara, Smurf, Chris Treacy, Maggie, Anne, ChuckE, Jenny and her husband Eric) started off the evening with a great vegetarian dinner. The show started about 35 minutes late, but we didn't care too much- we were enjoying the company! The manager of Club Passim started with "The good news is there are 25 people playing tonight. The bad news is they are all playing Big Yellow Taxi!" Hmmm.....sounds a bit like the covers project! Actually, the whole evening was very much like a compilation of Bob's cover project- some performances were GREAT, some were good, some underwhelming, and some we were rolling our eyes at. Without further a do........... 1) Carl Cacho- Help Me: He was just OK. Kind of Bob Dylanish sounding to me. 2) Rob Seigel- Both Sides Now: "There are so many reasons to love Joni, the melody, chord texture, but the thing that struck me most at 12 years old were the lyrics." This versioon was very fast, almost "rock-like". Not for my taste. 3) Flora Reed- River: "I was reading an interview of Joni recently and read that she liked Nora Jones because she sang in an unambitious way. So, I will try to sing in an unambitious way for Joni." Flora has sort of a husky voice and had a bit of trouble reaching the high notes. Otherwise, not too bad. 4) Chris and Meredith Thompson- Big Yellow Taxi: "25 people are not going to do Big Yellow Taxi, but we are going to do it 25 times!" I've got to say that I am a little prejudiced on this one. I have seen this sister-duo several times and the band I am in has played at the same festival as them for several years. These two rock!! Their harmonies are split on, and they really have the rhythm. One sister plays guitar, and the other plays the djembe (hand drum). The picked this song because they felt it was topical, and sang "put away those pesticides please" instead of DDT. They passed out homemade shakers and let those that received them keep them after helping them out with the rhythm section. The crowd went wild, and they justly deserved it. 5) Joel Ninesling- Little Green: "When I think of Joni, the only word that comes to mind is 'rabid'." Joel drew out the notes to this song as well as the guitar, sometimes holding each note for 2 measures instead of one. A bit gravelly voice, but a pleasant cover nonetheless. 6) Stephanie Corby: Steph is a great singer/songwriter from Newburyport, and I've gotten to know her through singing at a Memorial for a woman killed in the 9-11 attacks. Unfortunately, she wasn't feeling well and wasn't able to make it. 7) Oen Kennedy- Black Crow: Oen started with explaining to us the scientific name for the crow, not to be confused with the raven. He was wondering if Joni knew about the 10,000 crow roost in neighboring Framingham, or if she was just using the crow as a metaphor. He did a very nice rendition of this song, complete with crow calls at the very end, which was a pretty cool touch. 8) Marc Herman- Boderline: "I'm a little nervous, but I think my guitar is more nervous with this alternate tuning stuff. This is a song that unfortunately will always be topical." This guy was a Les Ross look-alike, and had a very similar quiet sounding voice. *Very* nice!!! 9) Hanneke Cassel- Morning Morgantown: She is a wonderful fiddle player, and was joined by a guitarist and a mandolin player. Really nice redition of this song. It was instrumental except for the mandolin player singing one middle verse, and then doing some scat singing as well. A+ for this one! 10) Rose Polanski- Willy: "I actually have a friend on the JMDL. When I was trying to figure out what to play, Yael came to my house and played a bunch of stuff for me. She played Willy, a song I had never heard before, and she helped me find the tabs on the website." She played this one the piano, after saying that she doesn't have a piano at home, and had been playing it on the guitar all week. It was a nice interpretation of the song, and her piano playing wasn't bad, but I found her voice to be underwhelming and breathy. It really bothered me also that she took a breath in the middle of the word ancient. (An *breath* cient.) 11)Chris O'Brien- Come in From the Cold: "To recap, I'm just going to do a verse from each song that was played tonight. Actually, I started listening to my Joni albums, trying to decide which song to play. Two verses into this song, I called Matt to tell him I wanted to do this song. Then I went out to get a drink of water, and about 6 minutes later came back into the room and it was *still* playing!" Chris did a *great* job with this song, really one of my favorites of the evening. I thought his guitar work was great- got the "Joni guitar slap" down, and had a nice voice. Lots of great energy. Even though he forgot a verse at the end, he kept playing, said, "there's more" but than couldn't remember, so said he was going to end it, and did. Another A+ in my book. 12) Diane Zeigler: One of my favorite performers, but unfortunately with all the snow we had, wasn't able to make it down from VT. 13) Merrie Armstrong- Woodstock: "I must confess this is not my favorite song, but I thought it was appropriate considering the times." Merrie is a Kate Bennett look-alike, and even has a similar voice. She played an electric guitar, and used a lot of bass notes, which made it a very "dark" version. Interesting take on it, and felt like she captured the feeling of what is going on now. Part 2 tomorrow as it is past midnight, and I am going to turn into a pumpkin. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 22:33:02 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc At the risk of boring everyone with philosophical dissection: sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > I didn't say idea = truth. Not all ideas are true. > > I said truth is a quality that attaches to propositions, not to the world. You also said "What do you take "truth" to be, if not an idea?" > > > In other words, truth is about LANGUAGE and perhaps thought. It is about us. > > It is correct to say that the idea of a tree is not a tree. But > there is nothing about a tree (or a waterfall) that is connected to > truth. There are more meanings to the word "truth" than the meaning you are giving it, as in 'something is true or false' (within the confines of logical thought). The truth is that which is. That which exists. > It would be meaningless to say "this tree is true". I bumped my head on one once (which explains alot). The tree was the truth. > > > Things in the world cannot be true or false. Only propositions can > be true or false. The world as we know it (as we think and talk > about it) is a series of facts and ideas, the world as we know, or concieve of it, is our image of it filtered through thought. It is not the world. > which we express as > propositions. So "this tree is green" may be true. But that is a > sentence (a proposition), which is a human construct. It is not the > world. It is not the tree. > > We do not have any direct knowledge of the world. When I bumped into the tree I did! The reason we are removed from the truth of the world is because our brains conceptualize it. We live in a false world of mentation which we separate and call reality, or ourselves, ego, etc. > > I would also say that an idea is not an image in the memory banks of > the brain. The brain, keeper of ideas, is a memory bank. > The idea of "the Good" is not an image in the memory banks > of anyone's brain. You are saying an idea is not an idea? I would have to completely disagree with that. The idea of the 'good' is an idea, based on past programming about what we have been taught is good, or an image used to simplify, like the guy in the white hat. That's not to say that there is not real good (an orange, a samaritan) or real bad (violence, cruelty). > It may be something that people think about, but > it is not the same thing as their thought processes. > > Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:01:39 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: January 7 On January 7 the following item was published: 1999: "Asner, Mitchell in anti-DreamWorks Documentary" - Reuters/Variety (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=318 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:10:52 -0500 From: Scott Fifield Subject: Travelogue thoughts Hello everyone - I've been lurking for about a week or two. I've enjoyed reading all the enthusiastic posts about Joni. I've been checking out the reviews on Travelogue and am baffled. I guess my tastes are well off the beaten path because I'm not hearing the same music these reviewers are hearing. I thought it was interesting that someone brought up Billie Holiday. Her "Lady In Satin" (her penultimate release - and one that found her more ravaged sounding that her final album) is a masterpiece and yes, it's not easy listening - she sounds like a woman who lived a rough life...who was just barely able to eke out a vocal on the tracks. That is NOT the voice I hear on Travelogue. I am completely won over by this release. I think it's great that Joni took the time to revisit some favorites from her catalogue and show them off in a new setting. I think she succeeds remarkably well. Most of my music collection is jazz vocals, so perhaps I'm more accustomed to the seasoned singer (read: aging) and I find that there's a certain "lived through it" quality that isn't capable of being achieved by a young voice. The believability factor is so much higher. This is more apparent in songs such as Both Sides Now, Love, and The Last Time I Saw Richard - and less apparent in something like Otis & Marlena or Sex Kills. I think the orchestral background really fits well - - I especially like the grandiloquence in Sex Kills, Ludwig's Tune, Trouble Child, and Amelia. Her delivery is always interesting and to compare the slight lyric changes, the different way she stresses certain words - these things are a joy for this fan. When I read these (and they're mostly wickedly negative) reviews, I can't help but wonder if they've given it the attention it might require to grow on them. With every Joni release, it's always taken me a few listens before I can appreciate it - and almost always I get there...(although it's hard with Dog Eat Dog)...I wonder if these reviewers played it through once and said, "she's lost her voice" and because she's made some angry remarks to the media about the state of the music business, they decide it's her swan song and so they write a terse review in which they point out that she's not a young woman anymore (she hasn't sounded like that folksy songbird in over a quarter of a century!) and how it's overproduced, and they give it a couple stars out of five. And for the review, she's probably spent the better part of a year or more putting together a very satisfying project for many of her fans. Again - I've enjoyed the posts. Particulary the ones that don't have NJC in the subject heading. Here are my 20 favorite Joni performances (what else does one do on a Tuesday morning at 2 a.m., but compile one's 20 favorite Joni performances???) Moon At The Window(1982) Song For Sharon (1976) Rainy Night House (Live, 1974) Be Cool (1982) You Dream Flat Tires (2002) A Case Of You (2000) Come In From The Cold (1991) The Last Time I Saw Richard (Live, 1974) Peoples Parties (1974) Refuge Of The Roads (1976) All I Want (1971) Man To Man (1982) River (1971) Trouble Child (1974) Harrys House/Centerpiece (1975) Cherokee Louise (1991) Two Grey Rooms (1991) Face Lift (1998) The Tea Leaf Prophecy (1988) Conversation (1970) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #8 *************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)