From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #585 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, December 24 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 585 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: 'prepare' njc [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #584 -- River in TV commercial [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Photo of Joni, Henry Lewy and Joan Armatrading [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Islam versus the West njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Islam versus the West njc [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Today in History: December 23 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: river [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: river [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Sire of Sorrow [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Corry Hanna Remote Radio Report [Michael Paz ] travelogue LONG(ish) ["Geronimo" ] Kratzmann, Australia & Exams [John Low ] Re: Today in History: December 23 ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Beck (njc) ["kakki" ] Re: Islam versus the West njc [colin ] NJC [colin ] Re: 'prepare' njc [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Corry Hanna Remote Radio Report [Randy Remote ] blushing njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] for steve polifka njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] merry everything!!!!! ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Of Interest to Old Hippies (NJC) [Randy Remote ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 16:52:53 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc Colin, how do you know that only some Moslems feel they're at war with the West? I can't give a percentage, but from talking to people in Arab countries, I know that a substantial proportion (I would say most) feel that a state of war exists between Islam and the West, and they welcome it. They don't necessarily hate Westerners, but they feel we're corrupt and misguided, that Islam must prevail, is the world's only hope, its time is now etc. I agree that the Arab world has legitimate reason to resent the West, and increasingly the West has legitimate reason to resent the Arab world, although perhaps in less compelling ways. I don't agree that populations are responsible for their own fate - that all people have to do is refuse to be treated badly. The population is not an autonomous mass. One individual or group might stand up and try to fight back, but for the majority to do that at the same time requires organization, and that's lethal in Iraq, or any of the other Arab countries, where the secret police are everywhere watching and listening for the tiniest sign of dissent. Please believe this, Colin, there is NO freedom in countries like Iraq, not for anyone, not even for Saddam's friends (especially not for them, in fact). As an individual, you can't stop this war. Similarly, one Iraqi (or group of Iraqis) can't stop what's happening there. Sarah colin wrote: > It is very sad that a few people can always rule a whole country with > terror. People allow this to happen, If people REFUSED to be treated > this way, they wouldn't be. Common sense tells us that if the > population stood to be counted, and took their power back, much > trouble would be ended. > Unfortunately, the majority of people won;'t do this thus they give > their power away. > So the populations of such countries are responsible for their fate. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 17:54:24 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #584 -- River in TV commercial In a message dated 12/23/2002 2:03:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > There's a TV commercial playing now that features a guy singing Joni's > "River". It appears to be an ad paid for by the government in support of > our troops. Has anyone seen this or know who is singing this? .....and why > would Joni allow her music for propaganda purposes? I suppose it's really > not support for war, just support for our friends and family who fight in > the wars. > > Mia > It's not a government commercial, it's presented by Circuit City, the electronics retailer (or perhaps another retailer, but it's definitely a private interest). I don't know who sings it, but I think the redording is two to three years old. The same commercial ran last year during the holidays. So, it's not exactly propaganda -- just a way to send a greeting to military people far away -- I don't see how anyone could object to that. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 17:57:56 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Photo of Joni, Henry Lewy and Joan Armatrading Somone at work gave me a little holiday gift - a photo clipped from Billboard magazine years ago. It shows Joni and Henry Lewy meeting with Joan Armatrading backstage at one of Joan's shows, probably in the late 70s. I scanned it, so if any of you Joni archivists or mega-fans want a copy, I'd be happy to send it. Just e-me. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 18:21:13 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Islam versus the West njc In a message dated 23/12/2002 19:09:35 GMT Standard Time, sl.m@shaw.ca writes: << How has the USA participated in the genocide of its native peoples within recent living memory? What are you thinking of exactly? >> I don't have time now to continue this debate (packing for Xmas away), although there is much to say, especially about the "rightness" of The West's way. However, just one specific point which I wish to correct: read my post again and you'll see that I did not make the accusation you claim above. Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:44:41 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Islam versus the West njc Sorry Azeem, my misreading. Have a great holiday wherever you're going. Maybe we can continue this when you get back. ;-) Sarah At 6:21 PM -0500 12/23/2002, AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 23/12/2002 19:09:35 GMT Standard Time, sl.m@shaw.ca writes: > ><< How has the USA participated in the genocide of its native >peoples within recent living memory? What are you thinking of >exactly? >> > >I don't have time now to continue this debate (packing for Xmas >away), although there is much to say, especially about the >"rightness" of The West's way. However, just one specific point >which I wish to correct: read my post again and you'll see that I >did not make the accusation you claim above. > >Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 19:30:01 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today in History: December 23 In a message dated 12/23/2002 2:16:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, ljirvin@jmdl.com writes: > 1976: Hejira was certified Gold by the RIAA > To hell with the RIAA! Hejira was solid gold the day it was released! :~) Bob NP: Wally Whyton, "Urge For Going" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 19:31:36 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: river In a message dated 12/23/02 3:10:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, hvnphun16@hotmail.com writes: > There's a TV commercial playing now that features a guy singing Joni's > "River". It appears to be an ad paid for by the government in support of > our troops. Has anyone seen this or know who is singing this? Hi Mia, Yes, as Bryan mentioned, this is a Circuit City ad that was aired last year too before the holidays. It was an ad called "Message from America" for people to send holiday greetings to soldiers on active duty. The singer is Robert Downing Jr. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 19:40:10 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: river In a message dated 12/23/2002 7:32:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: > The singer is > Robert Downing Jr. > It's actually Robert Downey Jr, but Jimmy was darn close! ;~) The track is available on the Ally McBeal "A Very Ally Christmas" CD. About half of it is good. Downey's recording is tremendous. Bob NP: Will Taylor, "Black Crow" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 19:43:03 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow In a message dated 12/22/2002 8:47:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, culheath@telus.net writes: > I just empathized the emotions and it carried me along. What a treat! > Anyone else ever have Joni's music possess them like that. Just curious. > What a cool thing, Cul! I don't play anything, so it would truly be a "virgin-birth" type of miracle for me to sit at the keyboard and have anything come out. BUT I have had a Joni song just come over me at times and I have to sing it from start to finish. Sometimes I pick up on something about the song I'd not thought of before. Bob NP: Mark Murphy, "Barangrill" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 18:47:31 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Corry Hanna Remote Radio Report It was so cool to tune into the radio on the internet and hear Randy Remote talking about his new record and hearing some great tunes (except that it was not really Randy it was his alter ego Corry Hanna). I was blown away by the sound of the record. It took me back to the Quicksilver Messenger Service days. I can't wait to order this CD. I was not able to listen 100% of the time cause I was taking calls and trying to pretend to work. I did manage to get thru on the phone to wish Randy I mean Corry congratulations. Best of luck With the project! Best Paz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 19:46:06 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #584/in response to Mia's question about River The TV commercial you asked about is Robert Downey Jr.'s version of "River'" which Joni said she loved in the recent "W" magazine article. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 19:49:07 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Top ten from LA Times (njc) In a message dated 12/23/2002 1:32:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: > (hi Bob on 1,7,8 and 10 ;-) > Hi back atcha gal! :~) Thanks for sharing that list...I'll say this about Beck, he's a big Joni fan as we all know and as he openly professes. I never had been a fan but this is one superb record. It blends some of the raw emotion of "Blue" with the audio landscaping/textures of "Hejira". I also would put Coldplay on that list..."Rush Of Blood To the Head" is exquisite! And Paul Westerberg's "Stereo/Mono" deserves a nod too. I've been listening to that new Roots but frankly I don't like it as well as I do "Things Fall Apart". Hey, here's hoping 2003 is as good as 2002 was for new tunes! Bob NP: Luka Bloom, "Urge For Going" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 19:50:55 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Corry Hanna Remote Radio Report NJC In a message dated 12/23/2002 7:46:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, michaelpazz@directvinternet.com writes: > Best of luck With the project! > Yes indeed, Randy/Corry! Please keep us posted, I'm poised and ready to buy! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 18:56:20 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Of Interest to Old Hippies (NJC) Zal Yanovsky of the 60s group Lovin' Spoonful dies of heart attack at 57 at 0:07 on December 16, 2002, EST. KINGSTON, Ont. (CP) - Zal Yanovsky went from singing for change in coffee houses to being a member of the '60s supergroup the Lovin' Spoonful - to relative anonymity in a few short years. Just days after his death, his wife Rose Richardson says her guitarist husband would want people to listen to the music they love and travel to the places they hold dear in their hearts. "Let's not miss a beat for him. That's a good one, it's musical," she said. Born in Toronto, Yanovsky went on to tour the world before leaving the band in 1967 and settling in Kingston, Ont., where he died suddenly on Friday of a suspected heart attack. He would have been 58 on Thursday. The band scored hits with Do You Believe in Magic, Daydream, Did You Ever Have To Make Up Your Mind, Summer in the City, and You Didn't Have to be So Nice, and at one point was second only to the Beatles in record sales. In the mid-1960s, Time magazine called the Lovin' Spoonful and the Mamas and the Papas the top two bands in America. In 2000, the Spoonful was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland. But Yanovsky didn't seem overly impressed. "It's a big media event that's over in two seconds," he told the Kingston Whig-Standard in 1999. Denny Doherty, of the Mamas and the Papas, told the Whig on Sunday that sometimes he and Yanovsky couldn't believe they'd gone from small-time Canadians to big-time music stars in just a few short years. In the late 1950s, the two had been hanging out in Toronto singing their songs for change. By the early 1960s and Doherty and Yanovsky were hanging out in the basement of New York's Albert Hotel "mining for gold." Doherty said the place was a dump but it was a dump where dreams came true. "I remember Zalman came in one day and sang Do You Believe in Magic and I thought it was nice. I didn't see him again until the song was a hit," he said with a laugh from his home in Toronto. Doherty said there was no way he could have known that the Lovin' Spoonful's first single would hit No. 9 on the Hot 100. He just thought it was a catchy little song. "You can't tell if something is going to be a hit, but you can tell if something is a good song," he said. Do You Believe in Magic was just one of the hit tunes created in the hotel in the city's lower east side. "Here we were, in a hotel, in a basement with the ceiling caving in and what was coming out of there was gold. They were mining for gold down there," Doherty said. It was at Mama Cass Elliott's house that Yanovsky met John Sebastian - a man and musician who would become one of his bandmates and good friends. When Sebastian started the Lovin' Spoonful - a name borrowed from a song by Mississippi bluesman John Hurt - he also recruited drummer Joe Butler and bassist Steve Boone to round out the foursome. Yanovsky was also once named one of the top 100 guitarists of all time by Total Guitar magazine. "Yanovsky had an unorthodox style of playing, to say the least," said Doherty who was inducted into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame with Yanovsky in 1996. "There was not any book anywhere that he followed," Doherty. "And he is gone too soon." His career with the Spoonful was also cut short. The story goes that Yanovsky was forced to leave the band and the United States after a run-in with police in the spring of 1966 in Berkeley, Calif. In a rare interview, Yanovsky talked to writer Ken Cuthbertson three years ago for a Kingston Life Magazine article. Yanovsky said he was kicked out of the band. He said it was painful in 1967 and still painful 32 years later in 1999. "The band was like a marriage with four people in it," he told Cuthbertson. "As I look back, I opened the door and they kicked me out." Yanovsky will also be remembered for his impact on his community, said Kingston Mayor Isabel Turner. Yanovsky was "a part of the very fabric of our community" she said, and was largely responsible for revitalizing the city. "He took a very old building, went in and not only cleaned it all up, but brought it back to its former glory," Turner said of an 1880s stable that Yanovsky and Richardson turned into a restaurant, Chez Piggy. "He was one of the first to do that, and because of it, others looked at what he had done and followed suit, with the result being that quite a renovation has taken place in downtown Kingston." Richardson said her husband was just as much a businessman as he was the eclectic artist type. "People always saw his jokey outside but they didn't realize how incredibly reliable he was. He was someone you could always count on," she said. "I guess it's hard to believe that a person who was so much fun was also reliable. It's probably not a word people would use to describe him." A private family service will be held Monday in Kingston. Yanovsky is also survived by his daughter Zoe and son-in-law Garth, his grandson Max, sisters Dvoira and Kaethe and stepmother Anna. He is also survived by his first wife, actor Jackie Burroughs. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 20:15:32 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #584 Sarah, your e mails are very annoying, I feel like you are preaching to people. Maureen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 01:19:02 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: Photo of Joni, Henry Lewy and Joan Armatrading On Monday, Dec 23, 2002, at 22:57 Europe/London, BRYAN8847@aol.com wrote: > Somone at work gave me a little holiday gift - a photo clipped from > Billboard magazine years ago. It shows Joni and Henry Lewy meeting > with > Joan Armatrading backstage at one of Joan's shows, probably in the > late 70s. Actually, sorry for not asking this before, but it would be useful if you could send me a copy after all - I have a printer, Steve doesn't. Thanks, and merry Christmas (*) - --Chris Marshall chris@hatstand.org (* If appropriate :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 20:21:16 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #584 Isn't it Bruce Springsteen? Maureen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 01:26:59 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Apologies: Re: Photo of Joni, Henry Lewy and Joan Armatrading Apologies, especially to NJC folk, but that last message was meant to go to Bryan direct. Currently just getting used to a Mac, and I fumbled, copying the list in too. More haste, less speed, and all that. - --Chris Marshall chris@hatstand.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 17:38:08 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #584/in response to Mia's question about River Andrea wrote: <<>> and in my humble opinion...it is one of the best covers of this gorgeous song. i love it so. mags.... You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 17:44:41 -0800 (PST) From: John Low Subject: Thank You! NJC This grizzly old Aussie wombat, who usually lurks deep in his burrow and whose rare posts generally sink without trace in the swiftly flowing Jmdl stream, is most grateful for the birthday wishes he received. Thank you one and all! John (in Sydney) Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 12:44:14 +1100 From: "Geronimo" Subject: travelogue LONG(ish) First of all, a happy christmas and new year to all from this down under lurker. Like many I suspect, I have been dropping in and out of the Travelogue commentary. Wow, its really created an impact, hasn't it? Joni being Joni - she must or would be pleased. Well she should be. Since the record (they'll always be records to me) didn't seem to be released in Australia the discussion has all been a bit remote but I must admit that the diversity of opinion was shifting me away from such a major purchase, especially with all the other christmas distractions. But there, yesterday, on my weekly visit to Borders, there it was. Just the one copy staring up at me for the amazing price of $30! Only about $16 US! What was the deal? Were they dumping copies I asked myself. but did it really matter. It was a sign. BUY!!! I did and then rushed across to HMV on the other side of the Pitt St Mall. And there amidst the blitzkreig lights and Norah Jones being played was Travelogue, several copies, for a whopping $45 (the expected price). My bargain was a christmas gift from JM. Ok, so I fiinish the rest of my shopping, rush across Hyde Park to the car. Rip open the packgaging (and by the way, yes the packgaging is just gorgeous. Absolutely no problem that it is the same theme as the previous records. The colour of the cover is perfect), slide in disc one (thank God for the car CD player) and then I was on my way. The streets of Sydney began to glisten. Industrial landscapes began to turn into verdant green forests. A marvellous transformation had begun. While I could hear, and even understand, all the negative comments people had made, they turned to irrelevancies because, here, the divine JM had turned her glorious past into a new and just as glorious, present. Indeed, perhaps a car is the perfect place for such a record. No neighbours and surround sound. It has to be LOUD. You have to pretend to be in the best concert hall, perhaps the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam with its perfect acoustics. The whole thing quickly dragged me into its spell. I was expecting slow, and I guess it is, but then Brian Blade is always there pushing it along so that to my ears, it never becomes lubrigious. And its fun! It sounds like everyone is having a great time creating this most unusual and probably the most successfully orchestrated pop record, at least of the last couple of decades. It feels live. As every new song comes on, I begin to wonder what Joni will do with her voice. She turns the limitations of her range into a hot rod of emotion. Despite the panting, she is not running to catch up because, after all, this is HER music. These are HER songs and that is so clear in every note, every lunge and peak of the orchestra. And the songs are paintings. It seems as if finally JM has really painted herself into the music and the visuals almost take over. We have always known Joni the romantic in terms of her words, but here the romance is in the orchestration. It has to be lush and huge and it is. Yes, there are elements of the arrangements that could be seen as annoying, especially if heard as a series of flippant brush strokes. But that's not how I hear it and Wayne Shorter in particular turns the usual into the particular. Throwing in themes and working them up to just the right depth of colour. Oh its GLORIOUS. And of course some songs seeeeeem to work better than others. But there is so much to choose from, one doesn't quite know what to go back to, where to begin. And this is just my first listen! Yes there is something fine here and I urge those doubters to undoubt yourself. You must have it! Its not the same old songs its the songs of our lives transformed. The originals exist forever. Some (think everything from Hejira) exist in their perfection with Jaco etc. But this, Travelogue, is another story. Not imitation, so to my mind, all the changes, the shifts in rhythm etc are not about diminishing what's gone before, its about finding out what the orchestra can do. Anyway enough you all say. But I had to say it. Even if you buy it and hate it, you have to have it, cause one day, its going to sneak up on you. Prediction! from the first time listener. Will I live to regret my comments? I don't think so. This is the right record for JM to have made now. BSN was/is superb. It grows and grows. Taming the tiger - well it has its moments, but the songwriting pen seemed to be running out of ink for the moment. Travelogue doesn't need new ink. Its about paint, paint and more paint!!!!!Don't be timid, throw yourself into and see what happens. Nicholas Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 17:54:06 -0800 (PST) From: John Low Subject: Kratzmann, Australia & Exams A rare post from the wombat burrow! Like many others on the JMDL, I really enjoyed reading Warwick McFadyens interview with Arthur Kratzmann. I was always aware that he was an Australian but knew little else about his background and his serendipitous connection with young Joan. As an Australian who often feels somewhat marginalized from everything Joni Mitchell, it was really great to discover more about the significant Australian influence on her creative development. I wish she had spent more time down under. I would have liked to have seen a few rosellas (remember these Catherine!) flying through her lyrics! Anyway, what a great teacher Mr K. must have been and I wonder how many other children benefited from his encouragement. While on the subject of education, some of you might be interested to learn that Joni Mitchell made an appearance in one of the English papers in this years Higher School Certificate, the senior school exam here in New South Wales. The chorus and several verses of Big Yellow Taxi were set as one of several environmentally related texts on which students were required to answer a number of analytical questions. In the second section of the paper they could then choose to write a letter to Joni Mitchell responding to some aspect of the lyrics and describing a related experience in which they had to reflect upon a change that had taken place in a person, place or time. The most general comment from adults hearing about her appearance in the exam was  but the kids wouldnt know who Joni Mitchell is! I think they might have been surprised. Anyway, if youngsters didnt recognize the name, they probably would have recognized the song!! Perhaps Bob M. will have to open an Examination category along with Fiction, Poetry etc. in his Joni in Literature project. :-) Best wishes to all for a happy, peaceful and relaxing Christmas & New Year. John (in Sydney) Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 21:23:44 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Today in History: December 23 If there is a God in heaven.. isn't this the truth!! I literally get chills when I think about this masterpiece. I don't know where in this world this life will lead me...but I know Hejira will always be by my side. Thank you Joni!! Feeling very thankful tonight. Safe holiday to everyone...Merry Christmas!!!! (always remember to spike that eggnog. Fear it nog!) Bree > > 1976: Hejira was certified Gold by the RIAA > > >To hell with the RIAA! Hejira was solid gold the day it was released! :~) > >Bob > >NP: Wally Whyton, "Urge For Going" _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_stopmorespam_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 21:25:49 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #584 njc --- Kardinel@aol.com wrote: > Sarah, your e mails are very annoying, I feel like > you are preaching to > people. Maureen I don't think they're any more annoying or preachy than any number of other people's. It always gets like this when people get political. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 18:03:36 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Beck (njc) Bob wrote: >I'll say this about Beck, he's a big Joni fan as we all know and as he openly professes. I vaguely remember somewhere Joni giving him a thumbs up, too. I'll try to find the reference. >I never had been a fan but this is one superb record. I've had an open ear on him for awhile and thought there was some real good potential there. He's a "local boy" here so I was rooting for him. > It blends some of the raw emotion of "Blue" with the audio landscaping/textures of "Hejira". This is amazing, Bob - have you been corresponding with Robert Hilburn?! ;-) Here is what Hilburn wrote in the L.A. Times "an album so poignant and naked that it may eventually rank with such haunting exorcisms as Joni Mitchell's "Blue" and Neil Young's "Tonight's the Night." (When I read this I kind of felt Hilburn was giving a little nod to Joni to make up for not putting her on his list this year ;-) It is going on my shopping list. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 02:35:38 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Islam versus the West njc > We respect other people's rights, > no we do not. we respect some people's rights. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 02:47:10 +0000 From: colin Subject: NJC I hope you all have a frolicsome Christmas(or whatever you are celebrating at this time). bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 21:32:18 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc According to this report in tomorrow's Guardian in the UK, there are no Western human shields. Iraq is claiming there are, but peace campaigners deny this. There may be Iraqi human shields, but they doubtless won't be volunteers. Sarah Iraq turns to human shields President boasts of volunteers in war of words with Washington Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington Tuesday December 24, 2002 The Guardian The psychological war games between America and Iraq moved up a notch yesterday when Baghdad announced it was to welcome its first batch of volunteer human shields, ready to fling themselves in front of US bombers in the event of a war. "We are in the process of receiving the first group of volunteers who like to act as human shields," said Saad Qasim Hammoudi, an official of the ruling Ba'ath party. "These people will be distributed to vital and strategic installations in all Iraqi regions." The introduction of an element of choice for human shields is a departure for Iraq from the last Gulf war when hundreds of Iraqis were deployed at Saddam Hussein's palaces in Baghdad and throughout the countryside. Iraq also used civilians as human shields four years ago when the US and Britain launched an extensive air campaign in response to Baghdad's failure to cooperate with the last round of weapons inspections. Mr Hammoudi claimed yesterday that he was expecting volunteers from the US and Europe to risk their lives for President Saddam. However, Mr Hammoudi's news was greeted with distaste yesterday by America's tiny anti-war movement, which has spent months deflecting charges that its activists are prepared to die for the Iraqi leader. Three peace organisations which have been active in humanitarian relief and in organising visits to Iraq in defiance of US law denounced the report as propaganda. The Institute for Public Accuracy, which organised the visit to Baghdad of the actor Sean Penn, as well as a tour by US congressmen, said the stories about foreign human shields were untrue. "I know of groups going over to witness and to educate themselves, but I don't know of anybody going over and saying I am a human shield," a spokesman said yesterday. Members of a US delegation which returned from Baghdad at the weekend said there are about two dozen Western peace activists in Iraq at any one time. "Nobody is naive enough to believe that a superpower like the US is not going to bomb Iraq because there are peace people there," said Mary Trotochaud, who returned on Saturday. The increased sparring between Baghdad and Washington comes at a time when the US is doubling its military forces in the Gulf. On Sunday, an adviser to President Saddam, General Amir al-Saadi, challenged Washington to send in the CIA to investigate Baghdad's claims that it has no secret weapons. Washington dismissed the offer as a "stunt". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 20:25:36 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Corry Hanna Remote Radio Report Michael, and everyone who has wished me well- thanks so much for the encouragement. It was so cool to get off the air and recieve a phone call from Mr. Paz all the way from New Orleans. I told the radio audience about my friends from all over the world on the Joni Mitchell Discussion List. Happy Crimble to all RR in N Cali Michael Paz wrote: > It was so cool to tune into the radio on the internet and hear Randy Remote > talking about his new record and hearing some great tunes (except that it > was not really Randy it was his alter ego Corry Hanna). I was blown away by > the sound of the record. It took me back to the Quicksilver Messenger > Service days. I can't wait to order this CD. I was not able to listen 100% > of the time cause I was taking calls and trying to pretend to work. I did > manage to get thru on the phone to wish Randy I mean Corry congratulations. > Best of luck With the project! > > Best > > Paz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 02:06:30 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: blushing njc thank you, john... yes, they were legion. wally *K* - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de John Low Enviado el: Lunes, 23 de Diciembre de 2002 10:54 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Kratzmann, Australia & Exams Anyway, what a great teacher Mr K. must have been and I wonder how many other children benefited from his encouragement. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 02:09:48 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: for steve polifka njc (sorry, folks, but really MUST use the list for this) steve, my messages to you ALWAYS bounce. sista says: thank you, king of bears! now you be naughty AND nice, ok? wallista ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 02:15:52 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: merry everything!!!!! no long messages this year -- not much imagination available. just wanted to say I L O V E Y O U jmdle family!!! have a merry and peaceful time! i know a million aol-ers won't get this message (jimmy, bob murphy [so beloved, so unattainable]). aol-can't read me. please somebody copy and send this back to the list at large (yes, joni onlies too!) so that everyone will know how much i love and miss you all. thinking of my dear friends all over the world, wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 22:57:38 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Of Interest to Old Hippies (NJC) Michael Paz wrote: > Zal Yanovsky of the 60s group Lovin' Spoonful dies of heart attack at 57 > at 0:07 on December 16, 2002, EST. > Joe Strummer of the Clash died yesterday too. Zal (as Zol) and the early days of the Spoonful/Byrds/Mamas&Papas are chronicled in John Phillip's tune "Creque Alley" CREEQUE ALLEY (Phillips-Gilliam) John and Mitchy were gettin' kind of itchy Just to leave the folk music behind Zol and Denny workin' for a penny Tryin' to get a fish on the line In a coffee house Sebastian sat And after every number they'd pass the hat McGuinn and McGuire just a-gettin' higher In L.A., you know where that's at And no one's gettin' fat except Mama Cass Zolly said "Denny, you know there aren't many" "Who can sing a song the way that you do, let's go south" Denny said "Zolly, golly, don't you think that I wish" "I could play guitar like you" Zol, Denny and Sebastian sat (at the Night Owl) And after every number they'd pass the hat McGuinn and McGuire still a-gettin higher In L.A., you know where that's at And no one's gettin' fat except Mama Cass When Cass was a sophomore, planned to go to Swarthmore But she changed her mind one day Standin' on the turnpike, thumb out to hitchhike "Take me to New York right away" When Denny met Cass he gave her love bumps Called John and Zol and that was the Mugwumps McGuinn and McGuire couldn't get no higher But that's what they were aimin' at And no one's gettin' fat except Mama Cass Mugwumps, high jumps, low slumps, big bumps Don't you work as hard as you play Make up, break up, everything is shake up Guess it had to be that way Sebastian and Zol formed the Spoonful Michelle, John, and Denny gettin' very tuneful McGuinn and McGuire just a-catchin' fire In L.A., you know where that's at And everybody's gettin' fat except Mama Cass Di-di-di-dit dit dit di-di-di-dit, who-o-oa ------ flute ------ Broke, busted, disgusted, agents can't be trusted And Mitchy wants to go to the sea Cass can't make it, she says we'll have to fake it We knew she'd come eventually Greasin' on American Express cards It's low rent, but keeping out the heat's hard Duffy's good vibrations and our imaginations Can't go on indefinitely And California dreamin' is becomin' a reality ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 02:09:17 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: December 24 1974: Joni joined Linda Ronstadt, Carly Simon and James Taylor singing Christmas carols and "songs of joy and peace" on the streets of Los Angeles. 1996: The New York Post was one of the first to break the story of Joni's search for her daughter, saying "...so far her search is fruitless. 'I've been blocked so far by the people who have the (adoption) papers'" More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=93 - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 02:09:17 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: December 24 On December 24 the following items were published: 1977: "Joni's Enigmatic Innervisions" - Sounds (Review - Album, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=355 1996: "Joni Mitchell Looks for Lost Daughter" - E! Online (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=93 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 22:39:35 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc Kate, I don't want to come off like I am PRO war by any means because I truly dread it. I offer the following only to give a few different aspects on the subject and also from a personal motivation of broadening the outlook, for what it's worth. What I have seen from many quarters seems to always want to impute all blame to the U.S. and that is just not a reasonable or truthful stance. You wrote: >though this time it appears we are not going to the defense of a country but are on the attack...the reasons that those >who support the war give are several: > > 1) to free the citizens from a madman In previous US incursions into war, we have also sought to free people from tyranny, at great personal sacrifice and expense of US citizens and sometimes US interests. I'm sure you have heard of the Iraqi opposition group who have been trying for years to get the international community to help them overthrow Saddam. They have been all over the news now for months. I have heard personally from Iraqis back in the mid-90s, about how horrible the country is under Saddam and how frustrated they are that Americans in general have no idea just how bad it is. > 2) because there are links to the terrorist attacks of 9/11 (so where is > this evidence?) I agree we haven't seen the government officials get up on TV and present diagrams and maps and flowcharts of every single bit of evidence and connection. On the other hand, for years now there has been numerous releases of information from not only the US government, but other foreign governments, from widely disparate newspapers and magazines, from books, from personal accounts given on mainstream TV and print media. I could fill several digests with links to all of these sources but I think it is up to everyone to honestly seek the truth for themselves. It's out there if you want to find it. I will give one link that I found particularly interesting. This is the lawsuit filed in Federal Court in New York on behalf of the families and estates of over 300 of the people killed in the 9/11 airline hijackings, the WTC and the Pentagon. It is 79 pages long. Key defendants in addition to Al Queda are Iraq, Saddam and his family and other Iraqi entities. If you can page through it, there are some eye-opening facts alleged. If this link does not work, go to findlaw.com and do a search on the Ashton case. http://news.corporate.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/ashtonalq90302cmp.pdf Also, the January 2003 issue of Vanity Fair has an article on Iraq that many are talking about. Here is an excerpt quoting a CIA official: "In the Cold War...often you'd draw from conclusions on the basis of just four or five reports. Here there are almost 100 separate CIA reports of Iraq-al Qaida cooperation going back to 1992. The CIA grades intelligence reports' credibility. All of the reports examined by the special Pentagon unit, says the official, came from the highest category - defined as a report from a source whose information had proved reliable in the past." > 3) because the country has weapons of mass destruction... And because from Saddam's track record he is most likely to use them at whim against anyone. > there are those who believe that the solution must address the fact that the > usa is the worlds' largest arms dealer & i whole heartedly agree...war is > big business & our government has blood on its hands... If all the US wanted to do was to make money off war they would be waging it constantly. The US has not done that. It has moved reluctantly into every war it has ever entered. As for the edited Iraq dossier, it was widely reported, from official sources including the UN, that the five permanent members of the UN Security Council - US, UK, Russia, China and France - would all have complete, unedited versions. The five permanent members have certain rights and privileges above and beyond the other "non-permanent" members. The UN was set up this way and remains so. Part of the reasoning for this as presented by official sources is that the dossier contained sensitive information regarding making bio/chem/nuke weapons that the five permanent members already have, but that they would not want widely disseminated to other countries. The US edited the dossier to remove that information before the other non-permanent member countries could review it. It was interesting to read the translation Sarah provided from the link you sent, which detailed the long list of German- supplied weapons to Iraq. I have read for months that Germany, France and Russia have been the biggest suppliers and it was speculated that may be why they were initially the biggest opponents to taking any action against Iraq. They did not want to disrupt their business relationships and also might be embarrassed by what might be revealed once the US started poking around. If the US is also so complicit, then why is it willing to have this information exposed about itself? The stance that the US's main motivation was to edit out evidence of supplying weapons to Iraq doesn't hold water. Saddam has that information, the five permanent members of the Security Council have that information, Hans Blix has that information, etc. That is something that is not a secret. A thought to consider when reading about weaponry that has US or other countries' "name" on it is to remember that there have been many rogue international arms dealers, such as the infamous Marc Rich among others, who have been doing business with countries such as Iraq for decades. In other words, a perfectly legitimate shipment to France of for example, a weapon part made by Honeywell, can easily get diverted along the route to Iraq instead. Just because it ends up there doesn't mean that the US or even France or Germany, etc., officially, knowingly and unlawfully shipped it there directly. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #585 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)