From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #582 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, December 22 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 582 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Another cover of "River" [Deb Messling ] Just a few random thoughts on recent threads SJC ["mike pritchard" ] "Both Sides Now" illustrated book on E-Bay Canada [Catherine McKay ] The Boss & Welcome back Rosie! NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: "Both Sides Now" illustrated book on E-Bay Canada NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.] Re: "Both Sides Now" illustrated book on E-Bay Canada NJC [Catherine McKa] Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff [colin ] Re: The Boss & Welcome back Rosie! NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: was hey rosie!!!, now Merry Christmas njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] (Kept On) By Her Own Devices LP ["Roman Wynnycky" ] Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff ["RSM" ] Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff [Mags N Brei ] the CRONE [] Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff ["RSM" ] end of the innocence njc ["Kate Bennett" ] john gorka njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: john gorka njc [Mags N Brei ] Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff [Mags N Brei ] Re: 'prepare' njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: (Kept On) By Her Own Devices LP [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: 'prepare' njc [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff [Mags N Brei ] Re: Just a few random thoughts on recent threads NJC [Randy Remote ] Shameless self promotion, Part 1 njc [Randy Remote ] Re: 'prepare' njc [colin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 06:30:49 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Another cover of "River" Here's a newspaper article about yet another cover of "River," this time by pianist Jim Wilson: http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/122002/ent_behomefor.shtml The relevant portion: "The album's first single is an arrangement of Joni Mitchell's River, featuring jazz saxophonist Everette Harp. Wilson said he took some liberties with the song, which he said he loves for its sense of melancholy and poignancy. 'I worship Joni Mitchell and I felt a bit of trepidation about taking a knife to the tune, until I heard James Taylor's version, where he leaves off the tag, 'made my baby cry.' So I did my own little spin on it,' Wilson said." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.427 / Virus Database: 240 - Release Date: 12/6/02 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 13:24:01 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Just a few random thoughts on recent threads SJC Just a few random thoughts on recent threads. On Travelogue. I have not bought 'Travelogue' because I am a little afraid of what it would be like. I heard a couple of things on the Nonesuch website but didn't like them. I have read very harsh criticism of the 'new' (re-treaded?) work and also some gushing positive comments. I have read both types of reviews/opinions here on the list and these are from people whose opinions I respect (i.e. people who think like me) and from other people who I also respect (although they don't think like me). It is my decision and my right not to buy this CD (yet) and it may well be my loss too. Time will tell. There are people here who like her 'soprano' stuff; there are others who like here 80s stuff and who don't like her 90s stuff. There are people who like the CAS to Mingus streak as her finest work. I would put myself in this last group. I like Night Ride Home very much and like For the Roses very much too. They just seem, in my opinion, not as 'good' as the four mentioned above. In my opinion, 'Wild Things Run Fast' is a very minor work, and it's one thing I never play. I have been updating my LPs and Cassettes to CDs as I find them in the shops but WTRF will not be one of them. I think it's cool that people like this one and hate Mingus. So what? If that's what they think, great. Personally I love Mingus and feel that joni's vocal on 'Sweet Sucker Dance' is the finest thing she ever did. If other people hate Mingus but love 'Dancing Clown', something I feel is really weird, then, hey, tremendous, go for it. You like what you like. Get over it. I agree with Victor and his thoughts on this matter. All of the above is my personal opinion and I realise that others have other opinions which are different. I have never disagreed publicly with someone's opinion on a particular point of joni music. It's a pointless exercise. This is a discussion list and we should all feel free to discuss things here without name calling and flaming. On sweet voices. I'm not really clear what this is, except to say that if I understand it correctly, two of the sweetest voices I know belong to Portuguese singers Dulce Pontes and Teresa Salgueiro. On Bush's war, I'd like to hear more from Randy about where he read about the censored pages. As Colin has said, It is very clear and has been all along that Bush would go to war anyway, and the excuses would be found to justify it. Blair is in the pocket and now Spanish Prime Minister Aznar is on the front pages shaking Bush's hand, happy to be a 'trusted ally' or 'special friend' or whatever category you earn when you agree to help Bush's war efforts. I hope Aznar remembers that 61% of the Spanish public totally oppose the war (rechazo absoluto) and only 2% give unconditional support. I hope too that the Spanish public remembers this when the next general election comes around. Enough rambling, enjoy your weekend, mike in barcelona NP Suite da Terra - Dulce Pontes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 13:09:14 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Mr Kratzman on Joni re: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1038 Mags wrote: >They were both beaming! So sweet to see that connection and Mr Kratzman said in the interview > The real highlight of the night was when I > was saying goodbye to her and she hugged > me and said this is the highlight of her career, > which is a pretty nice compliment." And in his speech >our home, alive always with your music, your poetry, >your singing and your painting, has glowed with >appreciative warmth in the knowledge of your >continuous assertions that I somehow helped in >a small way to release your latent talent. >Thank you for all your most generous bylines. >No teacher could ever ask more." Thanks for the link, Les - what a great 'highlight' - and so pleased for all those who witnessed it. Without knowing it at the time, a while back I met another of his students (I imagine) - now a children's book publisher in London. She's a couple of years older than Joni so was not in the same class (but did tell me that she once gave her a lift in the back of her car). PaulC NP The End of the Innocence (live) - Bruce Hornsby, Bonnie Raitt, Shawn Colvin, Jackson Browne and David Lindley. (oh me oh my!!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 09:46:28 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: "Both Sides Now" illustrated book on E-Bay Canada Has anyone ever heard of or seen this? It looks like it may be a book with the words to Joni's song, illustatrated by someone named Alan Baker, published in 1992 by Scholastic. Has anyone outside the U.S. bought things through the U.S. E-Bay? Most of what I've seen, they say they won't ship outside the U.S. Is there any way to get around that? http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2901289970 ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:14:22 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Another cover of "River" In a message dated 12/22/2002 6:30:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, messling@enter.net writes: > Wilson said he > took some liberties with the song, which he said he loves > for its sense of > melancholy and poignancy. Liberties! Awesome! Thanks as always Deb for the many "heads-up's" you give me regarding the covers, you are truly one-in-a-million. I figured there would be some more new River's besides Manilow & Maggie Anderson/Gregg Cagno. Bob NP: Chris Stamey, "Always Will Have Christmas" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 15:22:03 -0000 From: "Eryl B Davies" Subject: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff Colin.- Wallasey is the other side of the Mersey by ferry as well! But I quite agree that a singer and someone who has a 'good' voice are not neccererilly always the same. For instance I have been listening recently to Willie Nelson's 'Great Divide' album and whilst I don't think anyone in their right mind could say that he has a 'good' voice, he certainly knows how to sing. His timing, inflection interpretation and general feel for the music and words make up for any deficiencies in the vocal department. On the other hand Eva Cassidy was someone who had both. The fact that her musical preferences weren't the commercially popular ones and her personality were the only things which stopped her from being recognised as one of the greatest singers of her generation in her breif life. I find all this carping on about Joni's voice on Travelogue a bit narrow minded. After all at her age it's an achievement to be able to sing at all. After all if great voices made great singing wouldn't opera be the most popular style? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:25:54 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: The Boss & Welcome back Rosie! NJC Hey there Rosalita - feels like home to see you back! :~) Thanks for the link-up to "Kitty's Back" on Conan, my fave Boss tune and they did it justice that night. My favorite concerts in 2002: - -Little Feat at The Handlebar - -Tuck & Patti at The Handlebar (I was pudding for 2 hours) - -Springsteen in Columbia SC (OMG we were in "the pit" right in front of the E-Streeters, it was un-fecking-believable for 3 solid hours!!!!) Bob NP: Aimee Mann/Michael Penn, "All Alone at Chrismastime" (?) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:37:01 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Both Sides Now" illustrated book on E-Bay Canada NJC In a message dated 12/22/2002 9:46:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: > Has anyone ever heard of or seen this? Yes, it's a book that details the BSN lyrics with illustrations. I haven't seen it but I think it's marketed as a kid's book. Has anyone outside the U.S. > bought things through the U.S. E-Bay? Most of what > I've seen, they say they won't ship outside the U.S. > Is there any way to get around that? Catherine, don't forget your network of JMDL pals around the globe! I have bought a couple of things on E-Bay for JMDL pals outside the US from sellers who won't ship outside the US. All you would do is reimburse the US buyer for what they paid, and then add shipping costs for them to get the item to you in Canada. Voila! btw, why a seller would take this approach is beyond me. I sell music on E-Bay, and about half of my sales are to buyers outside the US. Don't know why someone would automatically eliminate 90% or so of their potential customers! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:47:47 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "Both Sides Now" illustrated book on E-Bay Canada NJC --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated > > Catherine, don't forget your network of JMDL pals > around the globe! I have bought a couple of things > on E-Bay for JMDL pals outside the US from sellers > who won't ship outside the US. All you would do is > reimburse the US buyer for what they paid, and then > add shipping costs for them to get the item to you > in Canada. Voila! > > btw, why a seller would take this approach is beyond > me. I sell music on E-Bay, and about half of my > sales are to buyers outside the US. Don't know why > someone would automatically eliminate 90% or so of > their potential customers! I don't get it either. I'd pay the shipping costs anyway - isn't that what people usually do? There are a couple of Joni music books I wouldn't mind getting my paws on and thanks for the offer of having it sent to you (maybe not necessarily you, but y'know) etc. One of my aunts, who lived in Quebec, used to have expensive items shipped to our place in Ontario so she could avoid paying sales tax - I think that's kind of extreme, but I also hate paying sales tax on anything, so I kind of get it. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 15:57:40 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff >After all if great voices made great singing wouldn't opera be the most >popular style? > I am glad not. I hate it! Fortunately thre people I was peaking with are not the sort tjat think opera or great voices are the only way to go. They ahev a respect for Joni. I found there views interesting and they made sense to me. i further discussed this wiht John and we he mentinoned that people who make good singers but cannot 'sing' have good acting abilities.Not that they pretend to sing but that they know how to use their voice for feeling etc. Nelson being one of them I should think. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 11:39:01 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Boss & Welcome back Rosie! NJC In a message dated 12/22/02 10:25:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy writes: > Thanks for the link-up to "Kitty's Back" on Conan, my fave Boss tune and > they did it justice that night. > > You're very welcome Bob. There's a great interview I found on the Greasy Lake site from September's Uncut magazine titled Into The Fire that I think you'll enjoy. http://www.greasylake.org/talktome/uncut2002.htm Some great pics too of Bruce on his horse farm in Colt's Neck. Hey the Atlantic City & Jacksonville concerts have been removed from the March itinerary. I wonder what's up with that ??:0( ~rosie NP: Lonesome Day ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 11:40:27 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: was hey rosie!!!, now Merry Christmas njc In a message dated 12/22/02 2:13:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, jlamadoo@fuse.net writes: > . He seems like he's not gonna > burn out, doesn't it? heh heh Bruce has more energy than the Duracel Bunny...he just keeps on going! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 11:44:54 -0500 From: "Roman Wynnycky" Subject: (Kept On) By Her Own Devices LP Hi Folks. Roman from Montreal here. Joined the list in order to get an answer to one question: I have the (Kept On) By Her Own Devices LP boot but can't find any mention of it via a Google search. As it claims to feature James Taylor on some tracks, I suspect that parts or all of it is taken from the Oct. 29/70 Royal Albert Hall show. The paper insert, however, has my boot as being from 1972. Anyways, here's the track list (I transfered the LP to CD-R): 1. This Flight Tonight 2. Electricity 3. Big Yellow Taxi 4. See You Sometime 5. That Song About The Midway * 6. The Gallery * 7. The Priest * 8. California * 9. Carey Introduction 10. Carey 11. You Turn Me On (I'm A Radio) 12. For The Roses * w/ James Taylor on guitar My question, then, is: What is(are) the source of the tracks on my LP? Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 09:06:38 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff I do recall either a post or an linked article here recently where Joni said that she had difficulty with one song on T'log because she couldn't find the character. She finally chose Jimmy Stewart because (fading memory) of his calm earnestness. Perhaps there is some truth in John's comments about non-singers and JM. Ron el Lay | I further discussed this with John and he mentinoned that people who | make good singers but cannot 'sing' have good acting abilities.Not that | they pretend to sing but that they know how to use their voice for | feeling etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 09:16:44 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff RSM wrote: <<>> and now me: wowour very own Jimmy Stewart!!!!!, I had NO idea Joni wrote thought of you Jimmy,while she was working on Travelogue...you've been holding out on us again..first Lily now Joni.. tres cool ;) Mags xo You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 13:15:35 -0500 From: Subject: the CRONE KATE wrote: "The Crone is the ancient holy one. She is grandmother, witch and hag. She has been ignored, trivialized, blamed and feared, for she holds powers that others deny." Yes! The crone is especially reviled in our "youth is all" North American culture. Bring on the Botox; get thee to a plastic surgeon; Cher and Cher alike. Utter rot. Our Joni has always acted her age, and continues to do so. She writes songs for adults. As I movea through middle age (I just turned 46), I find great solace in her later work. Dylan is more powerful in our culture than ever. He is "allowed" to be an elder statesman; in fact, he's applauded for his wealth of experience, his wisdom, his expertise. But Joni? Oh, she can't sing anymore; she's crabby; she's looking rather haggard. In other words, she's a CRONE. Run for cover! I'm not articulating this very well, I know. Never mind! ;-) MICHAEL in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:13:47 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff Oy! Just remembered -- it was the Rolling Stone Article this month. Found at http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1033. Here is what she said: Q: You're such a distinctive vocalist. Are you still influenced by other people? A: Rerecording "Chinese Cafe" for Travelogue, I just couldn't find the pocket in the performance, the character. The character was almost right, but there was something missing for me to deliver that particular song with sincerity, and I tried to think of a role model. I tried to imagine an actress delivering those lines spoken, and I couldn't think of a female. You know who I ended up thinking of? Jimmy Stewart. Because no matter how impassioned or angry Jimmy got, he always seemed to be on his center. He never was melodramatic. He was always light, even when he was heavy. Ron P.S. I think this Jimmy S. has passed away! ;) | and now me: | | wowour very own Jimmy Stewart!!!!!, I had NO idea Joni wrote thought of you Jimmy,while she was working on Travelogue...you've been holding out on us again..first Lily now Joni.. | | tres cool ;) | | Mags ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:31:08 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: end of the innocence njc paul >>NP The End of the Innocence (live) - Bruce Hornsby, Bonnie Raitt, Shawn Colvin, Jackson Browne and David Lindley. (oh me oh my!!)>> a great tour! did anyone else see it? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 11:02:14 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: john gorka njc just one gorka cd? that is so hard! at his website you can temporarily download one of his albums Temporary Road http://www.johngorka.com/ i've been listening a lot to his latest (The Company You Keep) which has a KILLER song he has done in his concerts called Let Them In...my first cd of his was Land of the Bottom Line which i still love to play a lot & has 2 of his most beautiful songs on it (I Saw a Stranger With Your Hair & Love is Our Cross to Bear) & many more as well ... whatever you do, DON'T miss his live show! i think he plays in your area quite a bit as that is where he was orginallly from (nj & pa) ...& i agree that jack sounds a lot like john gorka, jack even covers one of his songs...gregg cagno does a gorka song too ... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 11:44:54 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: john gorka njc thanks for the web site kate! i see that john gorka is going to play at hugh's room in toronto on the third of january...catherine go see him!!!! i understand that john and gregg are friends too. and maybe jack is too, who knows. i meant that as the highest compliment to jack, just to clarify. heart melting. kate, he's not in our part of the world until june! argh. well..perhaps we will just have to travel up to the northeastern states and try there... so much music. mags. Kate Bennett wrote:just one gorka cd? that is so hard! at his website you can temporarily download one of his albums Temporary Road http://www.johngorka.com/ i've been listening a lot to his latest (The Company You Keep) which has a KILLER song he has done in his concerts called Let Them In...my first cd of his was Land of the Bottom Line which i still love to play a lot & has 2 of his most beautiful songs on it (I Saw a Stranger With Your Hair & Love is Our Cross to Bear) & many more as well ... whatever you do, DON'T miss his live show! i think he plays in your area quite a bit as that is where he was orginallly from (nj & pa) ...& i agree that jack sounds a lot like john gorka, jack even covers one of his songs...gregg cagno does a gorka song too ... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 11:51:34 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff err Jimmy Stewart's alive and well and living in Florida...he must be away or he'd be jumping in on this one for sure ;-) magsnbrei RSM wrote:Oy! Just remembered -- it was the Rolling Stone Article this month. Found at http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1033. Here is what she said: Q: You're such a distinctive vocalist. Are you still influenced by other people? A: Rerecording "Chinese Cafe" for Travelogue, I just couldn't find the pocket in the performance, the character. The character was almost right, but there was something missing for me to deliver that particular song with sincerity, and I tried to think of a role model. I tried to imagine an actress delivering those lines spoken, and I couldn't think of a female. You know who I ended up thinking of? Jimmy Stewart. Because no matter how impassioned or angry Jimmy got, he always seemed to be on his center. He never was melodramatic. He was always light, even when he was heavy. Ron P.S. I think this Jimmy S. has passed away! ;) | and now me: | | wowour very own Jimmy Stewart!!!!!, I had NO idea Joni wrote thought of you Jimmy,while she was working on Travelogue...you've been holding out on us again..first Lily now Joni.. | | tres cool ;) | | Mags You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 11:42:56 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc there is a group called www.becomethechange.org that is organizing a human shield to go to iraq in january to try & prevent an attack by the usa....they need 5,000 people...very courageous ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 15:34:57 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff Mags wrote: > err Jimmy Stewart's alive and well and living in Florida...he must be away > or he'd be jumping in on this one for sure ;-) > Yes, "Magsie the cat is alive" said in my best Liz Taylor voice :~) Muller told me that Joni had mentioned my namesake in the Rolling Stone article, and even if she was talking about THE Jimmy Stewart, it still made me happy. He was a wonderful man, and to have Joni mention him just confirms what a wonderful woman she is. Sorry I didn't mark this post NJC, but I just didn't feel like it :-PPPP Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 16:10:27 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: (Kept On) By Her Own Devices LP In a message dated 12/22/2002 11:44:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, rwynnycky@hotmail.com writes: > Joined the list in order to get an answer to one question: Well, I'm afraid to tell you Roman in fear that you'll go away! This LP, like several other Joni bootlegs, is a mis-identified issue of the 1970 recordings of James & Joni on the BBC. Generally agreed upon as recorded in October '70 & broadcast in December '70. This famous concert (along with the soundcheck) is available from many JMDLer's on a single CD, it's a real gem. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 15:21:38 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc Colin, I used to work in journalism specializing in mid-east issues and I worked on the 1991 Gulf War. What you say about the West having supplied Saddam with weapons is right, although in fairness, it was largely the mainstream American media that revealed that. But is it so wrong to attack Saddam now? He is a despicable despot. The Iraqi people live in terror of him. Any tiny thing can set off a chain of events that will lead to you or your loved ones being tortured and killed. Saddam and his family have devised the most horrific tortures: you can be hanged naked from the ceiling and slowly dipped into acid baths; kept in a mortuary container until you die or 'confess'; forced to watch your wife be gang-raped. These stories are not just Western propaganda. Many journalists have spoken directly to people who've had things like this happen to them or their loved ones. We shouldn't see Iraq as a country about to be beaten in war, but rather as a country about to be liberated, like France from the Nazis. That's my opinion anyway. Sarah Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 02:36:37 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc Randy Remote wrote: >colin, you pretty much nailed it. Bush has been planning this >attack and he is not about to let facts or anything else get in >his way. Iraq's 'dossier' was given to the US before anyone >got to see it. Our mainstream media is not reporting that it was >censored to remove pages in which US (and foreign, particularly >German) weapons makers were named who contributed deadly >products to Sadam right up until the month before Bush Sr's >Gulf "war". (As Bill Hicks said a war is when TWO nations >fight). In their campaign to sell this folly to the US people, the >big media here (now owned by 5 megacorporations) does >not want this kind of uncomfortable information widely known. >The only ones carrying it are the alternative media. The irony >(also never mentioned) is that this is only going to create more >hatred for the US, more terrorists, and we will be less safe >than ever. Thanks George. Guess all that schoolin' paid off. >RR > > > I wonder if he is about to attack NK? or is China a bit too close? One of our newspapers yesterday had a whole frontpage warning the world about a mad man with weapons of mass destruction-accomanpied by a pic of Bush. I said on the list years ago that a ,lot of us non Americans felt that WW3 would be started by the USA. It is not just non whites who fear the USA. And it has othing to do with hatred of the uSA. It has to do with genuine, fact based, fear. It seems the uDSA is answerable to no one and expects eveyone else to answer to it. As for Blair-how shameful.One opion here is that the reason he is behaving as he is is ebcause he wants to Pres be of the USE. Seems daft to me as I have nasty feeling there won't a USE to be pres of-or a USA or anywhere. I hate to be so pessimistic, and I truly hope I am wrong, but it gets increasingly diffiuclt to believe we are not all fucked. For years I kidded myself that no one was as mad as this, that no one would dare start a game. But then i didn't undertadn how far fundametalism had spread and that the worlds greatest power(after China) would be so influenced by it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 13:32:34 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Re.Joni's voice and other stuff FMYFL@aol.com wrote: Yes, "Magsie the cat is alive" said in my best Liz Taylor voice :~) Muller told me that Joni had mentioned my namesake in the Rolling Stone article, and even if she was talking about THE Jimmy Stewart, it still made me happy. He was a wonderful man, and to have Joni mention him just confirms what a wonderful woman she is. Sorry I didn't mark this post NJC, but I just didn't feel like it :-PPPP miss magsie cat purrs in with: Jimmy darling, Im sure we will both be forgiven for it is alas, the season of forgiving and overlooking faux pas like not adding the njc to a post which really doesnt have much to do with La Joan. so let's live on the wild side a little and duck if we have to...I'll share my asbestos suit with you. btw, I really liked Mike Pritchard's post earlier today...it made so much sense to me. (of course, Im in one of his camps). Initially, I was ratherperplexed at how drastic the reactions were with respect toTravelogue and Joan's voice...and yet, tis true, this IS a discussion list and Ive actually been learning a lot from the various reviews/reactions . Ive not heard it enough times to really say much . I would advise Mike to at least listen to a real copy of the Cd rather than going by the Nonesuch clips which did not do the work justice. And then he can dislike it or not, as he pleases. And that's just fine too. I was speaking with another Canadian lister about the reviews of Travelogue which have been on the chilly side and I think it's a Canadian thing to take these things a little personally. Im no longer worried about it, I just like seeing all the discussion. magsie xo You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:00:08 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Just a few random thoughts on recent threads NJC mike pritchard wrote: Nice to hear your rambling on T'Log and the Spanish perspective on the US war > On Bush's war, I'd like to hear more from Randy about where he read about the > censored pages. I heard about it on Amy Goodman's radio show "Democracy Now" Here's the headline and link to the story, which gives a synopsis, and if you click on the headline, you can hear the whole interview with the German reporter in Real Audio. TOP SECRET IRAQ WEAPONS REPORT SAYS THE U.S. GOVERNMENT & CORPORATIONS HELPED TO ILLEGALLY ARM IRAQ WE TALK WITH THE GERMAN REPORTER WHO OBTAINED LEAKED PORTIONS OF THE UNEDITED REPORT THAT NAMES HEWLETT PACKARD, DUPONT AND BECHTEL & 20 OTHER U.S. COMPANIES AS WELL AS LOS ALAMOS AND LAWRENCE LIVERMORE NATIONAL LABORATORIES AND THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY http://www.webactive.com/pacifica/demnow/dn20021218.html > As Colin has said, It is very clear and has been all along > that Bush would go to war anyway, and the excuses would be found to justify > it. Blair is in the pocket and now Spanish Prime Minister Aznar is on the > front pages shaking Bush's hand, happy to be a 'trusted ally' or 'special > friend' or whatever category you earn when you agree to help Bush's war > efforts. I hope Aznar remembers that 61% of the Spanish public totally oppose > the war (rechazo absoluto) and only 2% give unconditional support. I hope too > that the Spanish public remembers this when the next general election comes > around. > Enough rambling, enjoy your weekend, > mike in barcelona > NP Suite da Terra - Dulce Pontes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:10:08 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: How do you plan on living through the end? What I know about art you could put in a thimble..but I know what I like. If the piece invites me in..then that particular artist has been successful with me. Many of Joni works do just this for me! Technically I don't care if she is good as Van Gogh or Monet. If it evokes emotion from me..this is all that matters. *Some* of the masters works leaves me uninvited,flat..and wanting. Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder! On another note: I saw Manilow on The Today Show today and he spoke of Joni. He said he recorded Joni Mitchell's River...."such a fantastic song"..you could tell that he was rather in awe. Bree >joni has the potential of surpassing van gogh and/or o'keefe? > >oh for chrissakes. this is just embarassing. even joni, in her most >egotistical megolamanical moments would probably not say something quite so >obtuse. if this is something you sincerely believe) all you are REALLY >doing is revealing how little you know and understand about art. > >(you realize of course, i am only sacrificing myself for YOU, by presenting >a bigger, more tantalizing target for the flamers.) > >enter the multitudes... > >ric _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_advancedjmf_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:10:54 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc colin wrote: > > I wonder if he is about to attack NK? or is China a bit too close? > > One of our newspapers yesterday had a whole frontpage warning the world > about a mad man with weapons of mass destruction-accomanpied by a pic of > Bush. I said on the list years ago that a ,lot of us non Americans felt > that WW3 would be started by the USA. It is not just non whites who fear > the USA. And it has othing to do with hatred of the uSA. It has to do > with genuine, fact based, fear. It seems the uDSA is answerable to no > one and expects eveyone else to answer to it. > As for Blair-how shameful.One opion here is that the reason he is > behaving as he is is ebcause he wants to Pres be of the USE. Seems daft > to me as I have nasty feeling there won't a USE to be pres of-or a USA > or anywhere. I hate to be so pessimistic, and I truly hope I am wrong, > but it gets increasingly diffiuclt to believe we are not all fucked. For > years I kidded myself that no one was as mad as this, that no one would > dare start a game. But then i didn't undertadn how far fundametalism had > spread and that the worlds greatest power(after China) would be so > influenced by it. Not just fundamentalism (though it always helps to have God on your side)--money and control of the world's resources. There are plenty of evil despots around. Some of them are our allies like Turkey. Some of them supply terrorists who blow up skyscrapers in New York (Saudi Arabia). Iraq sits on the second largest oil reserves in the world. But you just never know how history is going to play out. Who could have predicted the fall of the Berlin Wall, Nixon's resignation, withdrawl from Vietnam...there is certainly reason to fear the nuclear sword being waved. Maybe there is still hope that the American public will wake up and oust the scoundrels, though the last election wasn't encouraging. Probably the only thing that will really get their attention is the falling economy and a 200 billion dollar pricetag for the "war" against Iraq. While people suffer in Iraq due to a horrible excuse for a human (Sadam), somehow, killing them with bombs will probably not help their plight. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:17:23 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Shameless self promotion, Part 1 njc My CD, "Old Road Gone" is finally finished under my (ahem) stage name, Corry Hanna. Tomorrow, Monday Dec. 23, between 10AM and 12:00 PST, I will be guest on KMUD FM, and will be playing cuts from the CD, talking about it, and singing a song or two live with my guitar. KMUD streams Real Audio at http://www.kmud.org/ Official release and unveiling of my website will be Jan. 8. I'll let you know. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:27:46 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Shameless self promotion, Part 1 njc You mean Randy Remote is your real name? Well I did not that you are a singer songwriter. I will be sure and listen. Bree >My CD, "Old Road Gone" is finally finished under my (ahem) >stage name, Corry Hanna. >Tomorrow, Monday Dec. 23, between 10AM and 12:00 PST, >I will be guest on KMUD FM, and will be playing cuts from the >CD, talking about it, and singing a song or two live with my guitar. >KMUD streams Real Audio at http://www.kmud.org/ >Official release and unveiling of my website will be Jan. 8. I'll >let you know. >RR _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:40:54 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Shameless self promotion, Part 1 njc Bree Mcdonough wrote: > You mean Randy Remote is your real name? uh, yeah! btw anyone in the Laytonville CA area on New Years Eve: I will be hosting a CD release party/New Years Eve dance at the Laytonville Firehall. Besides my electric band, playing the whole CD live and more, also appearing will be Ray and the Reveleers featuring Indiana Slim, and Humboldt singer Anna Banana. Show starts at 8 PM, tickets $10 at the door. > Well I did not that you are a > singer songwriter. I will be sure and listen. > > Bree > > >My CD, "Old Road Gone" is finally finished under my (ahem) > >stage name, Corry Hanna. > >Tomorrow, Monday Dec. 23, between 10AM and 12:00 PST, > >I will be guest on KMUD FM, and will be playing cuts from the > >CD, talking about it, and singing a song or two live with my guitar. > >KMUD streams Real Audio at http://www.kmud.org/ > >Official release and unveiling of my website will be Jan. 8. I'll > >let you know. > >RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:01:00 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: The New Orleans Report (VLJC) Hello gang- Nice to know you guys are always still here. Welcome back Rosalita (altho you never really left me!!!!) Happy Birthday to Ric and Colin and Garrett and everyone else I have missed by being absent lately. New Orleans has been crazy the past few weeks and we have had our share of JMDL Folk sightings. It was great to see Les, who came down for Jack's CD release party and hung for a few days. The CD release party was a gas and thanks to everyone who tuned in and wrote us about the performance. Jack sold over 135 CD's that night and the numbers keep growing. He has started putting together a short tour starting at Tips New Orleans on the 3 of Jan and then up to Illinois and he is working on getting some more dates right in that area. Giselle positively killed again opening at the CD release party. People just love this woman! And why not she is so fecking good. We are threatening to work together on her CD so she too can get out there and get it on. The party continued thru the weekend at my friend Kurt's house on Saturday Night and Les and Gisele and Christina came although Jack was sorely absent. Nevertheless we played music from around 8pm till 5am alternating between acoustic music outside by the fire and electric music inside in his sound stage/studio. Once again Gisele kicked everyone's ass as did Christina who continues to WOW New Orleans all on her own. She has participated in 2 Christmas concerts with Theresa Andersson, David Doucet (of Beausoliel), and John Fohl (current lead guitarist for Dr. John). The first one was at the Norwegian Seaman's Church and the second in none other than St. Louis Cathedral in Jackson Square of the French Quarter in front of about 1000 people. The supportive applause for these magnificent artists was strong, but went thru the roof after our girl sang her 2 songs. She continues to meet with various songwriters accumulating material for her project and has been writing some amazing songs BY HER OWN PEN AND IN HER OWN BLOOD!!!!!!! I have waited for a post from her and Jack on these issues but they have been too busy being creative I guess so I am banging the drum for them. Did I mention the night that we went to hear Dave Easley's (pedal steel player with Brian Blade Fellowship) band Heartifacts??? She went up to Dave during a break and taught him Michael From Mountains and then Dave wrote a chart for the keyboard player and bass player and the fecking nailed it. I was so moved by this version and it was kinda rockin' and the pedal steel was so cool. Mary Pitassi is in the Big Easy (where the Saints SUCK!!!) but we have not managed to hook up yet I am hoping to see her tomorrow. I did a radio show last week on WWOZ (which you can hear online and request songs from PazFest, Jack Neilson's "Here I Go Again" and Christina's "Big Yellow Taxi" if you are so inclined. It was a lot of fun and ended up selling quite a few more copies of Pazfest from people who were listening in. Which just goes to show you that all you have to do is get DJ's to play the music so people can hear it (but I digress). Anyways I hope this gets everyone caught up with all of us. Count me in on the LOVE T'Log group. I love it more everyday and listen to it a lot esp. at work. There is so much to love about this recording, these versions, and her voice (which I don't hear this whole deterioration conspiracy thing). Nothing can compare with the way those songs sounded to me on the original records and they will probably always be my faves, BUT they have new life in this format and I love them too. If I don't get back before Christmas I want to wish everyone a very Happy Christmas and may you blessed with the comfort of family, song, and spirit. And If you have noone with you in the flesh during this holiday, be comforted to know that you have people from this community that will be lighting candles, saying prayers, singing songs, breaking bread, and sending light out to you in the spirit that IS the JMDL. To all of you who are ailing from physical pain I send you healing beams and pray that it will soon pass. And to all of you who have lost someone special, may their spirit fill you with that happiness you once had with them and you not dwell on the loss that you may feel now and know that someday we will ALL be together again. Many hugs and kisses to you all (even you baldys) Love Paz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:05:22 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Shameless self promotion, Part 1 njc OMG Randy. Congrats on your new CD. I will try to listen in tomorrow from work and be sending you cyber support. Best of luck! I guess Randy Remote sounded to much like a stage name that your management felt they need to soften you up???? LOL Can't wait to hear the stuff. Paz on 12/22/02 2:17 PM, Randy Remote at guitarzan@direcpc.com wrote: > My CD, "Old Road Gone" is finally finished under my (ahem) > stage name, Corry Hanna. > Tomorrow, Monday Dec. 23, between 10AM and 12:00 PST, > I will be guest on KMUD FM, and will be playing cuts from the > CD, talking about it, and singing a song or two live with my guitar. > KMUD streams Real Audio at http://www.kmud.org/ > Official release and unveiling of my website will be Jan. 8. I'll > let you know. > RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:06:15 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Critiques and stuff Hey Jack I remember this moment well and actually have it on VHS from the original broadcast. While I loved seeing her in there it was tragic the way the placed here at the end of a very long day and in between two rock acts. People were pitching stuff (tennis shoes and bottles etc.) at her and it was really quite sad. I remember sobbing about it during and after thinking "how the feck could people treat our queen in this manner?". I am going to have to pull this tape out again and watch it. Thanks for the reminder. Paz on 12/21/02 11:22 AM, jacka1z at jacka1z@insightbb.com wrote: > Well, I've been enjoying the continual pros and cons for Travelogue and > Joni's life's works. Very good points by all. The same thing is going on > at YesTalk.org. When artists stick around this long and have devoted fans > who love to speak their minds, it's wonderful. Sure occasionally people > react to their own projections of what the other says, that's because we > live in our own dreamtime. > > Anyway, I'm switching gears because rarely do I get to speak about my > favorite Joni moment, and that was the concert for Amnesty International > about 12 years ago. It was put on for 3 days by MTV, but the last evening > was switched to network primetime. At 7 or 8 whenever it started, Bryan > Adams came on and rocked the house, I guess. I really didn't understand why > he was there at all, I figured someone paid for that time slot. So he > "rocked" then they cut away to commercial. When they came back the crowd > was in a pop frenzy, chanting "We're number one, we're number one". Joni > comes out and starts a solo slow acoustic version of The Three Great > Stimulants. Through at least the first half of the song, people were > screaming and just partying, loud and proud. But by the end of the song the > majority had finally remembered what the concert for Amnesty International > was about, that people were being tortured and dying everyday by brutal > tyrants, some of which (not all) were supported by western civilization "Oh > these times, oh these brutal times". Then she brought an impromptu > four-piece band, Larry Klein, Manu Katche (who plays with Peter Gabriel) and > Dolette McDonald (who backed up vocals for Sting) and they played Number One > which grooved, further redefining the concert from chanting "We're number > one" to "honey, did you win or lose?". Then Larry and Joni finished with > Hejira, "Then I looked at myself here, chicken-scratching for my > immortality." That's when I became an absolute fanatic of Joni's > expression. > > Jack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 23:26:32 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > Colin, I used to work in journalism specializing in mid-east issues > and I worked on the 1991 Gulf War. What you say about the West having > supplied Saddam with weapons is right, although in fairness, it was > largely the mainstream American media that revealed that. hello sarah-I didn't say that, tho we have known it here for years. > But is it so wrong to attack Saddam now? He is a despicable > despot. The Iraqi people live in terror of him. Any tiny thing can > set off a chain of events that will lead to you or your loved ones > being tortured and killed. Saddam and his family have devised the > most horrific tortures: you can be hanged naked from the ceiling and > slowly dipped into acid baths; kept in a mortuary container until you > die or 'confess'; forced to watch your wife be gang-raped. These > stories are not just Western propaganda. Many journalists have spoken > directly to people who've had things like this happen to them or their > loved ones. > > We shouldn't see Iraq as a country about to be beaten in war, but > rather as a country about to be liberated, like France from the > Nazis. That's my opinion anyway. I ahev no objection to Saddam himself being killed. i think it is okay to kill a person if by doing so one saves the lives of many others. HOWEVER< i don't think that is what is going to haopen here. i think many people will be killed and that this war will spread all over the world. I think we are in deep shit in other words. > > > Sarah > > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 02:36:37 +0000 > From: colin > Subject: Re: 'prepare' njc > > Randy Remote wrote: > >> colin, you pretty much nailed it. Bush has been planning this >> attack and he is not about to let facts or anything else get in >> his way. Iraq's 'dossier' was given to the US before anyone >> got to see it. Our mainstream media is not reporting that it was >> censored to remove pages in which US (and foreign, particularly >> German) weapons makers were named who contributed deadly >> products to Sadam right up until the month before Bush Sr's >> Gulf "war". (As Bill Hicks said a war is when TWO nations >> fight). In their campaign to sell this folly to the US people, the >> big media here (now owned by 5 megacorporations) does >> not want this kind of uncomfortable information widely known. >> The only ones carrying it are the alternative media. The irony >> (also never mentioned) is that this is only going to create more >> hatred for the US, more terrorists, and we will be less safe >> than ever. Thanks George. Guess all that schoolin' paid off. >> RR >> >> >> > I wonder if he is about to attack NK? or is China a bit too close? > > One of our newspapers yesterday had a whole frontpage warning the world > about a mad man with weapons of mass destruction-accomanpied by a pic of > Bush. I said on the list years ago that a ,lot of us non Americans felt > that WW3 would be started by the USA. It is not just non whites who fear > the USA. And it has othing to do with hatred of the uSA. It has to do > with genuine, fact based, fear. It seems the uDSA is answerable to no > one and expects eveyone else to answer to it. > As for Blair-how shameful.One opion here is that the reason he is > behaving as he is is ebcause he wants to Pres be of the USE. Seems daft > to me as I have nasty feeling there won't a USE to be pres of-or a USA > or anywhere. I hate to be so pessimistic, and I truly hope I am wrong, > but it gets increasingly diffiuclt to believe we are not all fucked. For > years I kidded myself that no one was as mad as this, that no one would > dare start a game. But then i didn't undertadn how far fundametalism had > spread and that the worlds greatest power(after China) would be so > influenced by it. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #582 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)