From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #575 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, December 18 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 575 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Shut your eyes, what do you see? ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: Joni's voice [colin ] Prints of Joni's Artwork [ATaublib@aol.com] Re: Prints of Joni's Artwork ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Parody-Joni Xmas lp lyrics NJC [Steve Polifka ] Re: Parody-Joni Xmas lp lyrics NJC [colin ] decisions, decisions NJC [Tyler Hewitt ] "shine on your witness" [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Parody-Joni Xmas lp lyrics NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Judy Collins/Laura Nyro [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Judy Collins/Laura Nyro ["Reuben Bell" ] CRITICS of all expression... [] BJORK [] Re: Karen Carpenter [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC [Susan Guzzi ] Joni review-Bravo!! ["Kate Bennett" ] Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: 2nd try: Shut your eyes, what do you see? ["Erica L. Trudelle" ] Re: Joni's X-mas album njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC [Les Irvin ] Travelogue criticism [hell ] RE: Karen Carpenter ["Wally Kairuz" ] It's a Festivus miracle! [Randy Remote ] Re: Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC [Randy Remote ] RE: Joni review-Bravo!! ["Kate Bennett" ] * Joni Offer (& Tolkein) ["Music Is Special" ] Re: Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC ["chuty001" ] Re: Karen Carpenter ["Adam Mulvey" ] RE: Travelogue criticism ["Heather" ] RE: Karen Carpenter ["Heather" ] Re: Karen Carpenter njc [colin ] Discussion List? ["Eryl B Davies" ] Re: Travelogue criticism [colin ] Re: Discussion List? [colin ] Re: Discussion List? [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Discussion List? ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Meryl ["William Chavez" ] Re: Now playing (njc) [Les Irvin ] Fang and poisoning NJC ["William Chavez" ] Re: Discussion List? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Discussion List? [Catherine McKay ] Joni at gunpoint? NJC ["William Chavez" ] Re: Joni at gunpoint? NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Free Joni cover...and just in time for Christmas! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Kawrong.ren Carpenter njc ["Adam Mulvey" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:01:33 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: Shut your eyes, what do you see? Joni's music, more that anyone else's, paints wonderfully vivid mental pictures for me. I was chatting to Steve T last night and we hit on this point, and specifically that a lot of songs, and sometimes whole albums, evoke not not just images, but colours, times of day, almost a particular cinematic style. And the same ones for both of us, at that. So, I'm wondering, do we all share a Joni subconscious - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:11:33 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: 2nd try: Shut your eyes, what do you see? [Sorry about the first one of these: cut off in its prime as I fumbled and accidentally sent it before I was done] Joni's music, more that anyone else's, paints wonderfully vivid mental pictures for me. I was chatting to Steve T last night and we hit on this point, and specifically that a lot of songs, and sometimes whole albums, evoke not not just images, but colours, times of day, almost a particular cinematic style. And the same ones for both of us, at that. So, I'm wondering, do we all share a Joni subconscious when we put on a record, dim the lights, and shut our eyes? A few examples: The whole of the daytime songs on Hissing become green-tinged, at the very least, and I keep returning to the mental image of lawns and sprinklers. Most of Hejira is shot in monochrome... Coyote is joyous and sunlit; Refuge is at dusk; Furry is old film: grainy and documentary-style; Sharon just evokes images of Manhatten from the ferry: it's misty, with the sky-scrapers looming in the grey distance; the only one I see in colour is A Strange Boy. Most of DJRD is kinda yellowy, desert-coloured, probably influenced by the title track. All the imagery from Blue is blue-tinged... Now, sure, some of these are influenced by the album colour, which forms the basis for some of the other mental imagery. So, get out your boxes of mental 8mm film, and tell us what you see. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:15:37 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: 2nd try: Shut your eyes, what do you see? >So, I'm wondering, do we all share a Joni subconscious >when we put on a record, dim the lights, and shut >our eyes? > > > Hissing to me is hot and steamy and sordid and unhappy. i imagine sweaty men in their suits, anry and harrassed and unahppy, sweaty women, unhappy, angry and harrassed and thug type men, sweaty, taking advantage and using people and beautiful, but sweaty, young women, glazed eyes, desperate. the whole thing is rather dark. Happy ,little album..... All of TI is dark blue, all takes place at night, among the 'sad and lonely'. STAS-windswept and wild LOTC - sunny and bright with a storm on the horizon and then the storm. C&S-hot , dusty, high school times. Hejira-blizzards, cold, and dark and drunk and lonely. DJRD- steamy and hot and south american in feel-like being at Mardi Gras. again, drunk and lonely and sweaty and hot. Mingus-bar full of boring drunks. WTRF-dis jointed, not particular images. DED-electrical storm-powerful and scary and exciting ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:17:14 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Glenn Close NJC William Chavez wrote: >> .... a man please Mags. Must love dogs. Must have his own home to go >> back to on weekends and holidays. Must be good at house work. Must be >> good at cooking(low carb). Must know how to groom dogs well. Must >> >even tempered.Must NOT nag. > > > Glenn Close has something similar to what you might be looking for. I > read once that she has this young guy that lives in some little home > next to hers and she only allows him over when she needs him. I > thought that was pretty funny. I like her. I don't think she has him > do any cooking or cleaning though:) > Will roll on the day they can really make human like robots. Keep them in the cupbaord and take them out when one wants to play. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:20:46 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni's voice It is ridiculous to attack someone for liking Joni's present voice. It is equally stupid to attack those who don't. The only person whose opinion matters is that of the listener. what goes around comes around as they say. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:44:22 EST From: ATaublib@aol.com Subject: Prints of Joni's Artwork Hello All, Does anybody know if it is possible to purchase prints of any of Joni's paintings? Albert Taublib New York ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 06:16:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Prints of Joni's Artwork Yes and no. There's a poster (lithograph) available from the Mendel Art Gallery in Saskatoon Saskatchewan of the 'voices' celebration of her visual art. If you watch ebay, nearly every week you'll see posters of the artwork for the "BOTH SIDES NOW" or "TAMING THE TIGER" albums. Lama - --- ATaublib@aol.com wrote: > Hello All, > Does anybody know if it is possible to purchase > prints of any of Joni's > paintings? > Albert Taublib > New York Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:32:26 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Parody-Joni Xmas lp lyrics NJC Well, Thanks to Walt's post on the Joni Xmas lp, I dug up the lyrics behind the song: 'That Bitch Carly Simon Stole My Man', or The Last Time I Saw Carly Last time I saw Carly was with James in '72 and she told me All blonde singer/songwriters meet the same fate someday Cynical and drunk and smoking in some dark cafi You laugh, she says to me, you think you're so cute Go paint your eyes, and have a toot Go smell your roses, get some kisses from horny guy who tells you All those clichi lines Horny guys When you gonna realize they're only horny guys? Just horny guys Horny guys I pushed her head into the Wurlitzer Then I pushed her again and the thing began to whir Then a barmaid came by and looked at Carly on the floor and told me, "Clean that mess up now, it's getting' on time to close" Carly, you haven't really changed, I said It's just that now you've got some pain that's in your head You've got tears in your eyes but the songs you punched are dreamy, honey. Listen, you don't sing that sweet Sing that sweet When you gonna get yourself back on your feet? Just clench those teeth, (you raccoon-eyed fright-wigged mama) Just clench those teeth James and Carly got married; I hate her Then he bought her a dishwasher and eventually left her And I sit at home now most nights playing pool With all the houselights left on all night I'm gonna tune that damn bitch out I've got nothing to talk to those Taylors about All good singers pass this way someday Hiding behind pool sticks in dark cafis This pool craze Only a phase before I get my gorgeous wings and fly away Only a phase These dark pool cue days Joni, I love you; Carly, I love you too... It's just a parody... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:01:35 -0500 From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: She is More than Three! Foot in mouth disease continues unabated amongst the speakers and defenders of the free Joni from the bastard company produceers - the Travelogue album is undoubtedly the most complex peice of music and I retract all earlier statements as premature!!!! Listening yesterday I realized once again how many different planes of being she is aware of within herself - I have this awareness - dulled unfortunately by shit luck - she keeps me from going under so - after having a dream where my down comforters were ensconsed in ice upon the floor - ingenuity had it that I conveniently found one that was not - could this mean, dare I say, could it be the beginning of the appearance of love to me scene?!?!???? Alas one indeed can only hope! Thank you to all who replied to my previous missive I have sent a copy of the painting - show on smoe.org for failing to realize email does not have to be boring!!! Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:18:38 -0800 From: Mary Casey Subject: Re: Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC >"Ever since I was a baby girl the one thing I wanted most in >this >world >was to keep my love alive..." ~ Heart >>>>>>I LOVE this line, I LOVE this song and I LOVE the guitar work on this song. This is one of my all time favorite Heart songs and album. And "Dream of the Archer"... why doesn't anybody do songs centered around a mandolin anymore??? Even in Bluegrass(which I can listen to only in small doses) always uses them in the background or minor leads. This is a bunch of crap. Someone needs to bring this instrument (and the lute) back into rock/pop and most definitely back into classical! Have any of you noticed that their is a lute playing a tiny part in T'log? >>>>>>Will I agree Will. (And Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart are big Joni fans.) They have a lot of very nice music, but it is not what they are known for to the general public (more their 80's pop hits penned by the folks who churn out formula songs.) Nancy Wilson is an excellent guitar and mandolin player. They don't get the respect they deserve IMHO Hey, have you seen Grateful Dawg, the documentary with Jerry Garcia and Dave Grisman (sp?). Lots of mando on that. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 15:41:37 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Parody-Joni Xmas lp lyrics NJC This was brilliant, Steve! i just received an autgraphed copy (to Colin, Love Carly Simon) of Anthology a 2 disc set. Amazingly she can still sing!!! ;-) I was also sent a tee shirt of her 95 tour. It fits! how she knew I was a fat bastard I don't know. Bet some b**** from here told her..... the autograph is along the bottom of one of the sexies pics I have seen of her(she is wasting her time). From the look of it, it is from PP era. If you look at her eyes, you can see she thinks it is a hoot-not serious at all. And poor Joni.i know how you must feel. Carly got the voice, the talent, the looks, the success, the money AND your man. Must be a bitter pill to swallow. (however, she also got cancer and lost her breasts). And you got nicer fans. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:05:47 -0800 (PST) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: decisions, decisions NJC How does one 'decide' that someone else has had a boob job? Wouldent it be fun if you could just walk up to someone, say "you've had a boob job" and voila! Bodacious ta-tas! Of course, it would be much MORE fun for me to be able to 'decide' some big packages on random guys... >Plus, I decided the other night that she's had a boob job. Not recently, >they've been fake all along. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:10:56 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: "shine on your witness" I love the way Joni sings this line in "Refuge of the roads".There is a real note of weariness or longing in her voice. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:38:59 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Parody-Joni Xmas lp lyrics NJC LOL Steve, good job! Where was Chrissie Hynde in the midst of this? She could have jumped in and made it a pretty good brawl. Maybe even pick up Tonya Harding and get some good tag team going! :~D Bob NP: Counting Crows, "St. Robinson In His Cadillac Dream" 1.29.00 PS to Randy Remote: Randy, I preordered that Counting Crows/Vanessa Carlton cd single of BYT...will get it in mid-January. Anybody going to see the new Lord of the Rings today? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:41:16 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy Collins/Laura Nyro In a message dated 12/18/2002 1:40:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, willchavez@hotmail.com writes: > > >yes i agree reuben, "judith" marked a change in judy where she >started > to > >sing more flatly and a little passsionless. > >but the albums up till then are what i'm talking about. assured, >fearless > >and groundbreaking. stong guitair strumming and a fierce >altro. there is > a > >lot of good work there in those 10 or 12 lps. > > I agree that Judy's vocal approach on "Judith" starts to change. There are > Don't forget this was the period when Judy was drinking very heavily. I'm sure that seriously affected her singing ability. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:43:31 -0500 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Judy Collins/Laura Nyro True, but I believe that she got sober for "Hard Times For Lovers", which was (I think) released in 1977 or '79. This album (one of my favorites, by the way) still has her using this flat voice. She perked up a bit with "Running For My Life" and the superb "Times of Our Lives", though. I love the 80's Judy albums... Reuben >>> 12/18/02 10:41AM >>> In a message dated 12/18/2002 1:40:30 AM Eastern Don't forget this was the period when Judy was drinking very heavily. I'm sure that seriously affected her singing ability. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:40:44 -0500 From: Subject: CRITICS of all expression... ERIC wrote: > I've been getting some nasty e-mail about my outspoken love for T'log. > Today some guy accidentally sent me a copy of an e-mail to his friends on > the JMDL responding to my post last night "Joni's Voice": > "see what i mean? this guy needs a good thrashing! my comment on him > bravoing joni's bathroom sounds did not, apparently, do the trick. i > think it may become my mission in life now to mock him, publicly. what a > buffoon! the king of the joni pod people... " Unfuckingbelievable. If this person really is no longer a fan of the Mitch, then why bother being part of JMDL? I mean, there's criticism and there's criticism. "Bathroom sounds" is just plain mean-spirited and ludicrous and uncalled-for. You don't like her voice? Then don't listen to it. I don't like each and every minute of T'LOG (so a "pod person" I ain't), but I have great respect for Joni at all times. Her performances here are as passionate and poignant as anything she's ever done. Whatever happened to: if you don't have anything nice to say, then why say anything at all? We're not sycophants here; but nor should we be hatemongers. Some of the reactions from supposed fans of Joni -- or ex-fans, if they really feel so betrayed or something -- have been pretty fucking ugly. MICHAEL in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:49:39 -0500 From: Subject: BJORK And, while I'm all steamed up ;-) let me say this about that: I think Bjork is one of the great ones. Odd? Sure. But talented? You bet. M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:58:57 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Karen Carpenter In a message dated 12/18/2002 12:41:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, RPBell@newchurch.edu writes: > > True, but I believe that she got sober for "Hard Times > For Lovers", which was (I think) released in 1977 or > '79. This album (one of my favorites, by the way) > still has her using this flat voice. She perked up a > bit with "Running For My Life" and the superb "Times of > Our Lives", though. > Reuben > I used to think Judy had the sweetest voice in the world. Now I think her voice can't compare with "Karen Carenter".Karen's singing voice was just gorgeous... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:00:04 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC Speaking of "Heart" and the Wilson sisiters - I think "Dreamboat Annie" is one of the prettiest songs I have ever heard ... what a warm laid back feeling compared to most of their work. And much too short for my liking, but soo sweet nonetheless. Peace, Susan - --- Mary Casey wrote: > >"Ever since I was a baby girl the one thing I wanted most in >this >world > >was to keep my love alive..." ~ Heart > > >(And Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart are big Joni fans.) They have a lot of very > nice music, but it is not what they are known for to the general public (more their 80's pop > hits penned by the folks who churn out formula songs.) Nancy Wilson is an excellent guitar and > mandolin player. They don't get the respect they deserve IMHO Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:54:37 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni review-Bravo!! thanks, i was only allowed 90 words! that was so hard! but i found it was very similar to songwriting where you have to distill....i conciously felt i needed to moderate my praise knowing that there would be some who would not like this cd... will >>Loved your review of T'log...It's a shame it wasn't a wee bit longer<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:54:36 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC >> why doesn't anybody do songs centered around a mandolin anymore???<< have you listened to nickel creek? a great young mandolin player & its not the old typical bluegrass at all! they are fantastic!!!! newgrass i think they call it... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:34:45 -0500 From: "Erica L. Trudelle" Subject: Re: 2nd try: Shut your eyes, what do you see? Chris wrote: So, I'm wondering, do we all share a Joni subconscious when we put on a record, dim the lights, and shut our eyes? Hejira: is a mixed bag for me, flowing in and out of light and dark..."Coyote" is very bright to me, a winter road trip with sunlight causing snowblindness. "Hejira" always reminds me of the opening scene from "Fiddler on the Roof", the camera sweeping over the night rooftops of a small cold town, reflective, distant. But "Refuge" is actaully light for me, greens, grays and whites swirl in this song when I close my eyes. HOSL: reminds me of really nice silver rings and bracelets, if I ever get my bench set up I am cranking this album and sitting down to create! DJRD: warm and dreamy, which is what it seems she was going for, vibrant C&S: everytime I hear this album I want to bust out really good wine and cheese, or indulge in what ever is around :)) It triggers something making me always feel stronger. TTT: smooth purple velvet, scotch on the rocks, laughter mixed with reflective silence. LOTC: Dusty afternoon sunlight on worn wooden floors, innocence, I just see Joni's beautiful face in my mind when I hear this album. thanks for asking such a creative question!!! Erica _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:38:31 -0800 From: Mary Casey Subject: Re: Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC Actually, about half of their songs are mellow. They are just not the ones that get played (or did) on the radio. Are you familiar with their side project called the Lovemongers? They formed a group with friends and played mostly benefit shows around Seattle. They released 2 cds one of which is a lovely Xmas project (and I am usually not "into" Xmas music. I agree with you that Dreamboat Annie is a great song. I love Ann's flute playing on that one. Mary Susan Guzzi wrote: >Speaking of "Heart" and the Wilson sisiters - I think "Dreamboat Annie" is one of the prettiest >songs I have ever heard ... what a warm laid back feeling compared to most of their work. And >much too short for my liking, but soo sweet nonetheless. > >Peace, >Susan > >--- Mary Casey wrote: > >>>"Ever since I was a baby girl the one thing I wanted most in >this >world >>>was to keep my love alive..." ~ Heart >>> >> >>(And Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart are big Joni fans.) They have a lot of very >>nice music, but it is not what they are known for to the general public (more their 80's pop >>hits penned by the folks who churn out formula songs.) Nancy Wilson is an excellent guitar and >>mandolin player. They don't get the respect they deserve IMHO >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:07:17 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni's X-mas album njc that was great! you had me fooled up until the cher duet...lol ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:43:44 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC At 12/18/2002 10:54 AM, Kate Bennett wrote: >have you listened to nickel creek? a great young mandolin player & its not >the old typical bluegrass at all! they are fantastic!!!! His name is Chris Thile and he is recognized in the mandolin community as the greatest virtuoso ever. And he's only 22. Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:35:40 -0800 (PST) From: hell Subject: Travelogue criticism You know what makes me laugh? Imagining what this list would have been like, had it been in existence when Mingus, or DED were released - imagine the flame wars we could have had! There are some Joni albums that people like, and there are some that people don't like, so why all the fuss about Travelogue? Personally, I like it a lot (and I like her voice), and I LOVE the packaging. I also like Mingus and DED, but I'm not so fond of Clouds or LOTC. That's my opinion, and it's probably different from a lot of other people, but it's never been a hanging offense before! Hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:36:54 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Karen Carpenter so TRUE! lately i've been listening to karen's xmas album, and not even the notoriously kitsch hand of brother-cum-pimp richard carpenter can spoil the uncanny, somber beauty of karen's voice. to think that she led such a sad life, stifled by her mediocre family and pushed to aim only at top 40-dom! what a waste of a life and of a career! she should've done the standards (the few she did SO amply evince her brilliance as an interpreter). she should have done the songbooks. she was literally given shit and she turned it into solid gold. even her solo album -- the most dreadful thing you could ever imagine -- has moments of glory. karen's case depresses me enormously. wallyK, np: the Christmas song, karen carpenter. - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Relayer211@aol.com Enviado el: Miercoles, 18 de Diciembre de 2002 02:59 p.m. Para: RPBell@newchurch.edu; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Karen Carpenter I used to think Judy had the sweetest voice in the world. Now I think her voice can't compare with "Karen Carenter".Karen's singing voice was just gorgeous... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:17:13 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: It's a Festivus miracle! Last night, I was looking for a CD to play, and latched onto Shadows and Light. To my horror, disc 1 of my remastered-and only-played-once set was visably cracked. I suspect fowl play... anyway, I put it on and it played all the way through! It's a Festivus miracle! I was getting off on the the pliant quality of Joni's voice, showing just the first hints of cig damage, such a wonderful instrument. And "Dry Cleaner" always knocks me out, the intro with her and Alias, then Jaco kicks in...yum. Hippy Hoolidaze RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:22:14 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC "Love Alive" is also one of my faves. I hung with Howard Leese (who plays mando for Heart) not long after "The Road Home" came out, asked him how he could squeeze into those tiny frets. "I have little fingers". "The Dream of the Archer" from the "Road Home" video is very cool. Mandolin lovers may want to check out the new "Old and In the Gray" CD by Grisman with Peter Rowan, Vasser Clements and a couple other guys. Grisman's Acoustic Disc label has been putting out David Grisman projects regularly for years now. RR William Chavez wrote: > >"Ever since I was a baby girl the one thing I wanted most in this >world > >was to keep my love alive..." ~ Heart > > I LOVE this line, I LOVE this song and I LOVE the guitar work on this song. > This is one of my all time favorite Heart songs and album. And "Dream of the > Archer"... why doesn't anybody do songs centered around a mandolin > anymore??? Even in Bluegrass(which I can listen to only in small doses) > always uses them in the background or minor leads. This is a bunch of crap. > Someone needs to bring this instrument (and the lute) back into rock/pop and > most definitely back into classical! > Have any of you noticed that their is a lute playing a tiny part in T'log? > Will > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:19:30 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Joni review-Bravo!! for those who asked, here is the review online (it may change tomorrow as that is when the new edition comes out: http://www.independent.com/a&e/criticspiks.html ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:03:07 -0600 From: "Music Is Special" Subject: * Joni Offer (& Tolkein) In honor of the release of Two Towers, I'll make some copies of the DAT>CDR transfer I did of Joni's Nov 30, 1969 appearance on PBS (audio only). During the show, she talks for about 1-2 minutes while tuning of her guitar of her enjoyment of Tolkein and how Galadrial is her favorite character. Send your trade list and mailing address if interested. cheers, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:06:38 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC I saw John Paul Jones a few months ago he did a couple of tunes without the band, just him and the mandolin. Sounded very good. Susan mentioned Dream boat Annie earlier great album myself I put Dog and butterfly right up there with it. Chuck - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 12:54 PM Subject: Heart-mandolins and lutes NJC > >> why doesn't anybody do songs centered around a mandolin > anymore???<< > > have you listened to nickel creek? a great young mandolin player & its not > the old typical bluegrass at all! they are fantastic!!!! newgrass i think > they call it... > > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com > Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs > Over the Moon- > "bringing the melancholy world of twilight > to life almost like magic" All Music Guide > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:09:27 -0000 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: Re: Karen Carpenter > so TRUE! lately i've been listening to karen's xmas album, and not even the > notoriously kitsch hand of brother-cum-pimp richard carpenter can spoil the > uncanny, somber beauty of karen's voice. 'Brother-cum-pimp'? Sorry to be horribly self-righteous n'all, and as I'm British I know it's letting the side down not to be horribly snide at every available opportunity, but what the fuck justification do you have for that? Adam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:49:03 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Travelogue criticism Well, Hell, I guess we when all get bored we can pretend Mingus or DED just came out and really go at it ;-) Simply put, opinions are opinions ...or are they? Let's see what the dictionary says about the word 'opinion' ... Hmmm ... there are 5 inflected forms of opinion in my American Heritage dictionary which is too much for me to type here. One has to do with personal opinion; one public opinion; one legal opinion .... The thing I found interesting is under synonyms for the word 'opinion'. They state the word 'view' as a synonym and it reads "differs principally in that it stresses individuality of outlook as a determinant of the conclusion". There are others also ... sentiment, impression, feeling, conviction, persuasion, judgment .... All of these synonyms come out on this list in some form or another. What's my point? None really. Just fascinated by the word 'opinion' all of a sudden. As far as Joni's music is concerned, I don't entirely dislike any of her albums/cds (my little jury is still out on Travelogue). I think there is only one cut on Mingus that I like! Who cares! This list has its ins and outs and that's what it's all about. Kinda like the hokey pokey :-) Best always, Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of hell Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 3:36 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Travelogue criticism You know what makes me laugh? Imagining what this list would have been like, had it been in existence when Mingus, or DED were released - imagine the flame wars we could have had! There are some Joni albums that people like, and there are some that people don't like, so why all the fuss about Travelogue? Personally, I like it a lot (and I like her voice), and I LOVE the packaging. I also like Mingus and DED, but I'm not so fond of Clouds or LOTC. That's my opinion, and it's probably different from a lot of other people, but it's never been a hanging offense before! Hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:58:01 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Karen Carpenter Wally! I was listening to the Carpenters Christmas songs on the radio today and thinking the same thing!! Talk about the same wavelength! :-) I was thinking how she might have felt ... how her family made her feel ... always made to stand in her brother's shadow. I always feel sad at the end of her songs. She had a beautifully smooth voice. Speaking of smooth voices, I just picked up a Jo Stafford collectors series cd. I love her voice. Some may think that it's not a dynamo voice but .... she is soooo smooth! best- Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Wally Kairuz Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 3:37 PM To: Relayer211@aol.com; RPBell@newchurch.edu; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Karen Carpenter so TRUE! lately i've been listening to karen's xmas album, and not even the notoriously kitsch hand of brother-cum-pimp richard carpenter can spoil the uncanny, somber beauty of karen's voice. to think that she led such a sad life, stifled by her mediocre family and pushed to aim only at top 40-dom! what a waste of a life and of a career! she should've done the standards (the few she did SO amply evince her brilliance as an interpreter). she should have done the songbooks. she was literally given shit and she turned it into solid gold. even her solo album -- the most dreadful thing you could ever imagine -- has moments of glory. karen's case depresses me enormously. wallyK, np: the Christmas song, karen carpenter. - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Relayer211@aol.com Enviado el: Miercoles, 18 de Diciembre de 2002 02:59 p.m. Para: RPBell@newchurch.edu; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Karen Carpenter I used to think Judy had the sweetest voice in the world. Now I think her voice can't compare with "Karen Carenter".Karen's singing voice was just gorgeous... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:03:40 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Karen Carpenter njc > but what the fuck justification do you have for that? > I am not Wally but i have my own idea of what he meant. he will correct me if I am wrong. It would seem that karen was not able to be herself. she was controlled by her parents and her brother-who prostituted her gift for his own ends rather than leaving her to devleop herself as a person and an artist. Her voice was wonderful, her life too short. > >Adam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:05:36 -0000 From: "Eryl B Davies" Subject: Discussion List? I Joined the list on Sunday hoping to find some like minded people but all i find is closed minded anoraks who can't see further than the ends of thier noses and can't accept any thing different to whhat they're used to. The only comment that I have read in the past few days which seemed to make any sense was Eric Taylor's. I have fallen in love with travelogue. The orchestral arrangement is beautiful. The textures and colours created are wonderful. It is only to be expected that a recording of singing with a large orchestra is going to be different to a studio album where everything is arranged around the voice. The impact which the orchestra brings to the music is trully moving. I find listening to the record quite an emotional experience. I am alternately elated and brought almost to tears. It is obvious to me that a lot of people have put a lot of their soul into this record and if anyone who worked on this recording were to read some of the comments aired they would surely feel as bad as anyone going through a divorce. This is my first posting and will probably be my last. I find the comments in these discussions(?) totally at odds with the sentiments of Joni's lyrics. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:09:38 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Travelogue criticism >. Kinda like the hokey pokey :-) > >Best always, >Heather > > > hokey pokey? what sort of dance do you do, miss? I always thought it was the hokey cokey but just realised that could have a whole other conotation-snort! you are right of course, oipinons are only opinions. i fiind it somewhat amusing to see people getting their knickers in a twist over other people's opinions. reminds me of when as a child i would think that if my likes were not agreed upon, they were dissing me! Thank god that piece of narcissism was rooted out last week. Joni won't please all of us all of the time. Hopefully, she doesn't give a toss and just pleases herself. Sometimes one thinks that is what she is like. then other times one reads soemthing and one feels she isn't quite that secure after alll..... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:14:43 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Discussion List? Eryl B Davies wrote: >I Joined the list on Sunday hoping to find some like minded people but all i >find is closed minded anoraks who can't see further than the ends of thier >noses and can't accept any thing different to whhat they're used to. The only >comment that I have read in the past few days which seemed to make any sense >was Eric Taylor's. I have fallen in love with travelogue. > > Hi eryl and welcome to the list. You have a kindred spirit in Eric and I am sure the rest of us love you already. Can't wait to get to know you better. thank you for sharing. sincerely colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 15:23:40 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Discussion List? Eryl B Davies wrote: I Joined the list on Sunday hoping to find some like minded people but all i find is closed minded anoraks who can't see further than the ends of thier noses and can't accept any thing different to whhat they're used to. Welcome to the list, Eryl. I have to say though, to form such a negative generalization about the list after reading messages for the past four days would be uh..closed minded. There a lots of folks here, myself included who are enjoying Travelogue. There are lots of folks who aren't. But frankly, that does not characterize the wonderful nature of this community. So I hope you stick around a little longer because I enjoyed your post. There are a few people who have been intolerant of negative T'log reviews and there are a few people that have been ridiculing of positive reviews, but remember the VAST majority of us are playing hokey pokey...or something like that, right Heather? Jenny Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:54:43 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Discussion List? Eryl..please at least stick around long enough for my trivia question tonight that involves prizes..9PM. (EST) Oh...I'm in the love T'log camp... but it just does not do it for some on the list. This is okay! Of course those musicians did their best!! It's all about musical tastes..likes and dislikes... Bree >recording were to read some of the comments aired they would surely feel as >bad as anyone going through a divorce. >This is my first posting and will probably be my last. I find the comments >in >these discussions(?) totally at odds with the sentiments of _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:17:10 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: Meryl >Why would she audition as Evita Peron for EVITA if she can't? I never knew that she auditioned for EVITA! How come Madonna got the part. I never saw it since I'm not into television and I rarely go to the movies (although I like the movies, I really hate television except for Discovery, Animal Planet and one or 2 others). I was under the impression that Madonna did well in this movie but I can't see her outdoing Meryl. That one I don't comprehend. So do you know if there is a soundtrack or collection of Meryl singing tunes? I think I would be pretty interested in getting it. Thanks!! Will _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:32:35 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Now playing (njc) At 12/12/2002 10:36 PM, FMYFL@aol.com wrote: >Thanks for the reminder Kakki !!! My screen is too small to see them, but >I'm listening to Jack and Christina right now, and they're doing a great job. > It's like a virtual Jonifest. Is Les really backing them up? Nope, I left my mandolin in Paz's car! Les, cleaning up any misconceptions. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:50:36 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: Fang and poisoning NJC Two days later (this morning) the vet had to do the same thing, as Fang still had a temp of 103. (100 is normal for a cat.) Actually a cats normal temp range can go up to 102.5. Most vets will regard a 103 temp normal in the clinic setting due to stress. Cats easily stressed out in strange surroundings and will have an elevated temp. 103 is often considered normal because of the stress factor. Cats can also have a falsely elevated WBC cell count due to stress called a "Stress Leukogram". Why are you so sure your neighbor is putting out poison. Did your vet tell you your cat's clinical signs were consistent with a specific type of poisoning. At this time of the year if you live anywhere other than South Florida ,then you are probably in an area where antifreeze is commonly used. Cats will often drink antifreeze that leaks from radiators because it tastes sweet. There are supposedly some newer formulations that do not cause problems but I'm sure there are people still out there using the same old stuff. Cats or anything else that decides to drink that stuff are in high risk of Acute Kidney Failure. Did your vet do any blood work? Treatment for antifreeze poisoning needs to be instituted immediately and specific drugs need to be used. Regular supportive therapy will probably not cut it. Don't be afraid of seeking a second opinion if "Fang" continues to deteriorate. A good Doctor will respect your need for a second opinion if you so desire to seek it. Good luck to you and "Fang" Peace always, Will _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:57:54 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Discussion List? In a message dated 12/18/2002 6:07:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, eryl.bryn@lineone.net writes: > This is my first posting and will probably be my last. I find the comments > in > these discussions(?) totally at odds with the sentiments of Joni's lyrics. > I hope it's not...new voices are always enjoyable! And thanks for taking the time to express your thoughts. I'm not sure tough that I understand your second statement. Joni's work is all about duality, about looking at things from Both Sides Now, about things being Borderlines...which specific lyrics do you have in mind that we are totally at odds with? Bob NP: Refuge Of The Roads, T'Log ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:10:09 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Discussion List? --- Eryl B Davies wrote: > I Joined the list on Sunday hoping to find some like > minded people but all i > find is closed minded anoraks who can't see further > than the ends of thier > noses and can't accept any thing different to whhat > they're used to. Welcome to the list. I think. What is a close-minded anorak? I thought an anorak was a jacket of some kind. I didn't realize they could have minds, closed or otherwise. (Just trying to figure out whether to react with righteous indignation or go back to sleep...) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:35:21 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: Joni at gunpoint? NJC Yes, a lot of this is due to a declining voice for whatever reason, >but do you really think Joni didn't listen to her vocals before she put out >this project. Absolutely she did!!!!!!!!! I listen to this project knowing one thing, >that her vocal delivery is ALL intentional. >>I certainly hope so...I would hate to think that someone held her at >>gunpoint and forced her to sing in a way not to her liking...:~} >>Victor in Asheville No gun needed, just I little bit of persuasion is all it takes to get many singer to do something that they don't like. My comment is a reflection on that I don't think Joni is easily persuaded to do anything she doesn't want to do. Some here have mentioned how Joni has probably given in at times just to keep peace(maybe a form of understanding). Maybe so, at times, while she was married with Klein but I doubt much of that takes place now. Vocally I think she is to blame or praise for all of it. Musically, who knows, there might have been a gun involved:~} Many here seem to think that T is not really "Joni" (musically). Will _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:48:03 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni at gunpoint? NJC In a message dated 12/18/2002 8:36:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, willchavez@hotmail.com writes: > Many here seem to think that T is not > really "Joni" (musically). > Well, this may not be my favorite Joni, but i DO think it's 100% Joni's vision, which I would not say is the case with all of her work. On a similar note...I'm beginning to think that I judged T'log too much on Disc 1 only. I've been listening to Disc 2 all week and am really digging it. So there may be hope for me yet! ;~) Bob NP: Circle Game from T'log (speaking of circle games and car wheels, my son is just a couple of days away from getting his driver's license! Yikes! Luckily he has picked up his driving skills from the Jedi driving master...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:56:49 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Free Joni cover...and just in time for Christmas! If you don't win Bree's trivia game, you can still get a Weds. nite freebie...I'd like to let Joni fans know that there is a fine cover version of River by Joe Milsom available for downloading this week at Steam Powered Studio- www.somewhereoutwest.com Bob NP: Just Like This Train ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 01:59:52 -0000 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: Re: Kawrong.ren Carpenter njc > I am not Wally but i have my own idea of what he meant. he will correct > me if I am > It would seem that karen was not able to be herself. she was controlled > by her parents and her brother-who prostituted her gift for his own ends > rather than leaving her to devleop herself as a person and an artist. > Her voice was wonderful, her life too short. Well, how beautifiul. How astonishing it really is, to realise that Richard Carpenter was actually a disgusting pervert who liked to have anal intercourse with his own sister!! That is the be-all and end-all of what you're saying, isn't it? Or could it be that you're so swayed by the force of urban myth that you reckon that Richard Carpenter spent most of 1982 with his penis inserted deep into his sister's amaciated anus? Or are you (perish the thought!) so brain-dead through years of National Enquirer-lead bullshit that you cannot sort the vomitously disgusting idea that (a) Karen Carpenter had one of the most painfully introspective voices in contemporary music *without* resorting to either (a) the idea that she had fellatio with close blood relatives or (b) she just happened to rely on him so much that when then the crunch came, his bid for independence was more than she could bear? Don't want to spoil the party, or anything!!! God Bless! Adam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:03:37 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Trivia question!! Send answers to me OFF list! Who am I madly in love with on the JMDL? Just Kidding! Question: What is the very first thing a person will do when entering a department store? (over 90% of the population does this. Men..women and children) _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #575 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)