From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #567 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 13 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 567 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Travelogue, touring and "painting" A Starry Night Again [FredNow@aol.] RE: Joni never inhaled [Eric Taylor ] Re: signing off [colin ] Re: Joni, the musical! [colin ] Re: Now playing (njc) [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Joni & Nash trivia/news [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: muller looks like... njc [AsharaJM@aol.com] sorry, JUDY [] headphones for Joni (NJC) [Jennymac48@aol.com] RE: headphones for Joni (NJC) ["Jerry Notaro" ] hi everybody!!! ["walterphil" ] For Free - Ick??? [Merk54@aol.com] Billy Joel [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Billy Joel ["Adam Mulvey" ] Re: Billy Joel (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Billy Joel njc [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: signing off [Susan Guzzi ] Re: headphones for Joni (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: Travelogue, touring and "painting" A Starry Night Again [Randy Remote] Re: Billy Joel njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: signing off [Randy Remote ] Re: Billy Joel njc ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: thoughts for the statue njc [Randy Remote ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #566 [Thomas Ross ] Billy Joel/also a Joni question [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #566 [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Billy Joel/also a Joni question [Jerry Notaro ] T'log review- Santa Barbara Independent ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: sorry, JUDY ["Reuben Bell" ] RE: Usama & the big boobed blonde ["Heather" ] RE: Joni, the musical! ["Heather" ] RE: Joni never inhaled [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Billy Joel njc [colin ] Re: headphones for Joni (NJC) [colin ] Detroit in '68 [Wtking59@cs.com] Red or White Billy or Mariah ["chuty001" ] My best music of the year SJC! ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: Detroit in '68 ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: Detroit in '68 ["chuty001" ] Re: Red or White & why I'm tired of Ms. Mitchell ["Reuben Bell" ] Chat room, anyone (NJC) ["Chris Marshall" ] Azeem review. [johnirving ] stevie wonder song njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Azeem review. [AzeemAK@aol.com] RE: signing off ["patrick leader" ] RE: RE: Joni, the musical! njc - now, billy joel! the musical! ["patrick] Re: Billy Joel njc ["kakki" ] Re: Travelogue, touring and "painting" A Starry Night Again ["kakki" > But............ does anybody remember her off-stage quote in MOI, "Hey >>man, would you ask Van Gogh to paint A Starry Night again?". One of my recurring pet peeves, and one I've tried in vain to stem, is this ill-considered remark of Joni's. She was responding to someone's request to sing an old hit, and she didn't want to, so she said something like: "Hey, man, would you ask Van Gogh to paint A Starry Night again?" Painting is to art as *songwriting,* not singing, is to music. Songs are *meant* to be sung again and again. No one was asking Joni to *write* "A Starry Night" again, just to sing it (whatever song it was) again. It was a perfectly fair request, and I've always thought it kind of snotty of Joni to have responded thus. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 04:08:41 -0500 From: Eric Taylor Subject: RE: Joni never inhaled Victor in Asheville wrote: > Bob, I couldn't disagree more. When I listened to it Friday night - > start to finish, both discs - I listened not only in the dark > (candlelight, Kate), but with headphones on. I was struck by the sound > of her breathing in, found it painful to listen to. Holley had the same reaction...she found it painful to listen to though she also loves her voice. This reminds me of how Barbra Streisand got her reputation of being such a b*tch. After recording Barbra Joan Streisand (containing perhaps my fave ballad of all time "Since I Fell For You") babs objected to their removing her *noisy* inhalations. It probably cost Columbia million$ to restore Barbra's breathing to this great record. This only proves how very out of touch most record producers are! Re: Joni's statue. If she doesn't have a cigarette in her hand, the so-called "artist" will fail to capture the full spirit of Joni's true personality. Is this not crystal clear by now, despite all of the California crusaders overreacting to personal pollution? Where do you draw the line, SUV hogs of the world? ET ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:35:46 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: signing off You will be very mcuh missed Mark and I am sure I am not the only one whohopes this is just temporary. love colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:42:10 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni, the musical! Ricw1217@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/12/02 7:05:35 PM, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > >damn. that's me. joni come lately. let's see. i want something >creative! how about i lay down in the middle of the road and a car full of >joni pod people run over me time and time again, > in an SUV of course.... > >i DO like SOME of travelogue. > no special pleading allowed. > i keep expecting to hear bette davis >breathing her last as the room goes dark! > now that evil smoker lived a long life....... > >and to think if i had JUST KEPT MY BIG MOUTH SHUT, i could have probably >infiltrated this list's inner circle! (i know, i know...pipe dream...) > are you prepared to debase yourself, drink the blood of Joni bashers, and wear a blonde wig? > >love, ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 04:21:54 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Now playing (njc) Hey Kakki, For some unknown reason I thought the whole show started earlier, so when I got nothing earlier in the evening, I figured they had technical problems. But you posted just in time Kakki - Yea Thanks! Sorry I missed Gisele's set though, so I put her on first thing this morning. And I must admit to a little nodding out during Christinsa's set but I did hear most of it - I think. Oh well it's to be expected from an "Old Hippy" of my age! Congrats to Jack! All the best to you with the CD. Great to hear you Paz, love your version of "Come Pick Me Up." And Christina you sounded great. So cool to be with all of you. Hey To Gisele and Cindy too! Peace, Susan - --- kakki wrote: > It is Jack playing on the Tipitina's stream (someone just mentioned his name > and CD) and I think I even hear a bit of Les Irvin backing him up on yet > another Karla song. Check it out! > > Kakki Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 08:22:56 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Nash trivia/news In a message dated 12/12/2002 6:02:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, guitarzan@direcpc.com writes: > Hey Bob-do you have this one already? > I've seen it advertised, but haven't heard it. Is Vanessa doing the backup vocal or the lead vocal, does anyone know? I have the "Hard Candy" version and a live version as well. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 08:31:50 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: muller looks like... njc About two weeks ago (yeah, yeah, I know, I am *really* behind in e-mail, don't rub it in!) Wally said: << ashara looks a bit like goldie hawn. >> I find this SO amamazing, because this has been said to me many, many times over the years, and as incredibly comlimentary as it is (she is thin, blonde, and GORGEOUS!!!) I have to say I don't get it. However, I will bask in that little sentence that made my day today! Thanks, Wally!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:12:57 -0500 From: Subject: sorry, JUDY I shouldn't have called Judy Collins' versions of BSN and SEND IN THE CLOWNS passionless. Sorry. That was uncalled for. M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:27:45 EST From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: headphones for Joni (NJC) Hey all you audio experts, could somebody recomend he best 3 sets of headphones for listening to music? They don't have to be tiny, in fact I'm interested in outside noise reduction and then getting great sound out of the CD that's playing. Do I really hve to spend 150 on Bose? I will, if they are the best. Thanks Lve JennyMac ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:33:14 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: headphones for Joni (NJC) You can't go wrong with Sennheiser. They cost more and are worth it. But no matter what the brand, don't go small. You can't get true fidelity unless they are full size. Just my opinion. Jerry - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Jennymac48@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 10:28 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: headphones for Joni (NJC) Hey all you audio experts, could somebody recomend he best 3 sets of headphones for listening to music? They don't have to be tiny, in fact I'm interested in outside noise reduction and then getting great sound out of the CD that's playing. Do I really hve to spend 150 on Bose? I will, if they are the best. Thanks Lve JennyMac ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:42:48 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: muller looks like... njc it's the eyes and mouth, ashara AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: >About two weeks ago (yeah, yeah, I know, I am *really* behind in e-mail, >don't rub it in!) Wally said: > ><< ashara looks a bit like goldie hawn. >> > >I find this SO amamazing, because this has been said to me many, many times >over the years, and as incredibly comlimentary as it is (she is thin, blonde, >and GORGEOUS!!!) I have to say I don't get it. However, I will bask in that >little sentence that made my day today! Thanks, Wally!! > >Hugs, >Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:07:32 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: hi everybody!!! i just bought the dr nick simpsons toy he comes in a doctors office and one of the things he say is "you need booze!" too funny dear will thanks for your intelligent response to my box set "conversation" is a major admission on part always one of my favorites. and i'll concede to the arrangent (especially after your amazing analisis i like it, but always prefer a more tuneful joni "radio" is a good tune but just cause it was a single i didn't think it had to be included because there are so many better songs on "roses" and i was also trying to limit myself to a certain number from each lp ditto for "edith." "tin angel" you can keep. and i agree with you about "for free". ick on other matters. it seems like i'm always defending judy collins on these lists but anyone who calls her music passionless certainly has NEVER listened to her early folk albums. stirring full of passion and feeling i mean have you HEARD "someday soon?" ("who knows..." lp) "tomorrow is a long time????" (j c fifth album) "the great silkie?" (second album-"golden apples...") give these albums a chance. dear adam: i so agree with you on which version of "who knows" is better ain't sandy denny just the greatest? i can't tell you how much i love her. there is a double cd best of that is SO AMAZING. not a bad song on it. i still feel like crying that she died so early. (ALL the faiport albums with her on them are INDESPENSIBLE) (and what a killer version they do of joni's "eastern rain") also the notion that joni would ever do "clowns" is ludicrous. it is just so WRONG for her. she wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. (hilarious comment on joan doing it adam) and you are correct---but don't get me started i love joan. none of these singing gals would be here without her. NONE, thank goodness there isn't a songbook of "dog eat dog" for one thing there are no "songs" on it! billy joel is the most gaggingly earnest and falsly sincere hack i've ever heard. and quit his mariah trashing you watch-- i'll bet she does some good songs eventually. love walt The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:40:40 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: For Free - Ick??? In a message dated 12/13/2002 11:07:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, walterphil@excite.com writes: > "for free". ick Wow. For Free (off of MOA!) is one of favorites. Have you listened to this version lately. I think its stunning. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:06:40 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Billy Joel Okay, Walt, I won't dog Mariah, if you stop calling Billy Joel a hack. ;) Afterall, are all the organizations who bestowed the following honors on him somehow deceived or perhaps hypnotized by his gag-inducing earnestness? Grammy Legend Award Johnny Mercer Award - Songwriters Hall Of Fame James Smithson Bicentennial Medal of Honor Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction RIAA Diamond Award American Music Awards - Award of Merit ASCAP Founders Award BMI Career Achievement Award Billboard Century Award Honorary Doctorate - Berklee College of Music Inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame It's all right with me if you don't like his music, but a hack he is not. Jenny - --- walterphil wrote: > i just bought the dr nick simpsons toy > he comes in a doctors office > and one of the things he say is "you need booze!" > too funny > > dear will > thanks for your intelligent response to my box set > "conversation" is a major admission on part > always one of my favorites. > and i'll concede to the arrangent > (especially after your amazing analisis > i like it, but always prefer a more tuneful joni > > "radio" is a good tune > but just cause it was a single i didn't think it had > to be included because > there are so many better songs on "roses" > and i was also trying to limit myself > to a certain number from each lp > ditto for "edith." > > "tin angel" you can keep. > and i agree with you about "for free". ick > > on other matters. > it seems like i'm always defending judy collins on > these lists > but anyone who calls her music passionless > certainly has NEVER listened to her > early folk albums. > stirring full of passion and feeling > i mean have you HEARD "someday soon?" ("who > knows..." lp) > "tomorrow is a long time????" (j c fifth album) > "the great silkie?" (second album-"golden > apples...") > give these albums a chance. > > dear adam: > i so agree with you on which version of "who knows" > is better > ain't sandy denny just the greatest? > i can't tell you how much i love her. > there is a double cd best of > that is SO AMAZING. > not a bad song on it. > i still feel like crying that she died so early. > (ALL the faiport albums with her on them are > INDESPENSIBLE) > (and what a killer version they do of joni's > "eastern rain") > > also the notion that joni would ever do "clowns" > is ludicrous. it is just so WRONG for her. > she wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. > (hilarious comment on joan doing it adam) > and you are correct---but don't get me started > i love joan. none of these singing gals > would be here without her. NONE, > > thank goodness there isn't a songbook of "dog eat > dog" > for one thing there are no "songs" on it! > > billy joel is the most gaggingly earnest > and falsly sincere hack i've ever heard. > > and quit his mariah trashing > you watch-- i'll bet she does some good songs > eventually. > > love > walt > The most personalized portal on the Web! Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:48:28 -0000 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: Re: Billy Joel > Okay, Walt, I won't dog Mariah, if you stop calling > Billy Joel a hack. ;) > > Afterall, are all the organizations who bestowed the > following honors on him somehow deceived or perhaps > hypnotized by his gag-inducing earnestness? Okay, seeing as I started it: He's not that bad. I like 'Uptown Girl'. It's that awful and fatuous 'She's Always A Woman To Me' that grates on my nerves. However, I am not at all convinced by that list of awards. They are all awards for being famous and/or not being dead. And I'm sorry Walt, but Mariah Carey is absolutely and utterly indefensible. If she did to 'I'm A Dreamer' or 'Big Yellow Taxi' what she did to Harry Nilsson's 'Without You' then she would qualify for the 'three strikes and you're out' policy and be taken off the streets for the good of us all. Staple her to Celine Dion and post them both to Antarctica. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:56:4 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Billy Joel (njc) > Okay, seeing as I started it: He's not that bad. I like 'Uptown Girl'. > It's that awful and fatuous 'She's Always A Woman To Me' that grates on my > nerves. Billy Joel- Songs from the Attic Now there's a great album! Victor in Asheville - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:15:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Billy Joel njc The irony...Uptown Girl is my least favorite Billy Joel song. >However, I am not at all convinced by that list of >awards. They are all awards for being famous and/or >not being dead. I guess it depends on what your definition of famous is - many of these awards recognize songwriters who have made an outstanding contribution to american popular music. Joel keeps rather impressive company. Jenny - --- Adam Mulvey wrote: > > Okay, Walt, I won't dog Mariah, if you stop > calling > > Billy Joel a hack. ;) > > > > Afterall, are all the organizations who bestowed > the > > following honors on him somehow deceived or > perhaps > > hypnotized by his gag-inducing earnestness? > > Okay, seeing as I started it: He's not that bad. I > like 'Uptown Girl'. > It's that awful and fatuous 'She's Always A Woman To > Me' that grates on my > nerves. However, I am not at all convinced by that > list of awards. They > are all awards for being famous and/or not being > dead. And I'm sorry Walt, > but Mariah Carey is absolutely and utterly > indefensible. If she did to 'I'm > A Dreamer' or 'Big Yellow Taxi' what she did to > Harry Nilsson's 'Without > You' then she would qualify for the 'three strikes > and you're out' policy > and be taken off the streets for the good of us all. > Staple her to Celine > Dion and post them both to Antarctica. > > Adam Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:17:06 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: signing off I echo Colins sentiment here Mark. I thank you for your insight and input here. You were one of the first few people I had off line contact with here, and we shared some thoughts and personal history. Actually, it was funny cause then I wrote you a bit later and you responded with "Who are YOU?" Of course i reminded you but I do think about that and laugh now. Be well and hurry home! Peace, Susan ... GUZZI! - --- colin wrote: > You will be very mcuh missed Mark and I am sure I am not the only one > whohopes this is just temporary. > love > colin Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:15:06 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: headphones for Joni (NJC) The best would be an electrostatic pair like the Koss, which go for about $600. If you are talking about the Bose with the noise cancellation technology (they actually intercept outside noises with a tiny microphone and produce an opposite signal that nulls the noise) they are supposedly very effective for noisy environs and sound good too. I have a higher end Sony set, a new set of Sennheisers, but for all around listening pleasure and just down right 'naturalness' I keep going back to my AKG 240's. They are a staple in every recording studio, and run $150 or maybe less. The only drawback, maybe, is that they are not a closed cup design, so they may not be the best for noisy environs. My all time faves are my Audio Technica ATH-7 electrostatics-they are amazing, but they don't make them anymore. RR Jennymac48@aol.com wrote: > Hey all you audio experts, could somebody recomend he best 3 sets of > headphones for listening to music? They don't have to be tiny, in fact I'm > interested in outside noise reduction and then getting great sound out of the > CD that's playing. Do I really hve to spend 150 on Bose? I will, if they are > the best. > Thanks > Lve > JennyMac ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:18:32 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Travelogue, touring and "painting" A Starry Night Again FredNow@aol.com wrote: > someone wrote: > > >> But............ does anybody remember her off-stage quote in MOI, "Hey > >>man, would you ask Van Gogh to paint A Starry Night again?". > > One of my recurring pet peeves, and one I've tried in vain to stem, is this > ill-considered remark of Joni's. She was responding to someone's request to > sing an old hit, and she didn't want to, so she said something like: "Hey, > man, would you ask Van Gogh to paint A Starry Night again?" Good point, Fred, although she said (paraphrasing) "that's the main difference between music and painting, (blah, blah) with painting, when it's done, it's done" Seemed more like an observation than a complaint. From the Miles of Aisles album. > > Painting is to art as *songwriting,* not singing, is to music. Songs are > *meant* to be sung again and again. No one was asking Joni to *write* "A > Starry Night" again, just to sing it (whatever song it was) again. It was a > perfectly fair request, and I've always thought it kind of snotty of Joni to > have responded thus. > > -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:23:04 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Billy Joel njc Why bother focusing on Joel's 80's output...mostly jumping shark after shark, like a lot of 70's artists did. To fully appreciate his talent, give a spin to his 70's hat trick: Turnstiles - The Stranger - 52nd Street or his major label debut, Piano Man (for which he made a grand total of $3,000 due to bad management & contract). Bob NP: Stan Ridgway, "Beyond Tomorrow" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:19:51 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: signing off Mark, I hope you will return to the list when you can. All the best healing energy to you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:29:25 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Billy Joel njc > The irony...Uptown Girl is my least favorite Billy > Joel song. Reminds me of when you mention Joni Mitchell to someone and they tell you how much they love "Big Yellow Taxi" but seem to not be aware that she has a plethora of other material that you don't hear on all the "Clear Channel" radio stations or see videos for. Most of my favorite songs by Billy Joel are the more obscure ones. Funniest Billy Joel moment? When Hillary Clinton planned to announce that she was going to run for senate with "New York State of Mind" playing in the background...only there was a delay and it ended up being "Captain Jack" instead. Victor in Asheville NPIMH: Billy Joel "Summer Highland Falls" - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:28:00 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: thoughts for the statue njc > > "No great art was ever created by committee." -- Jerry Notaro This is Joni's statement, of course. Great art by committee includes every great movie (writers, director, actors, cinematographers, etc) and every great popular album (writer, performer, producer, engineer, art director, etc), every great classical piece (composer, musicians, conductor, etc) every great play (writer, actors, director, lighting, props, promoter, etc). Another statement I heard lately I would challenge "those who can't create become critics" Joni does both!! She is supremely creative, yet able to sweep away all current music admittedly without even being familiar with it. Wouldn't you like to sit her down and play her something and say 'what about this'? What would you play for her? RR > > > > > I tend to agree with Jerry on this one. For unrelated reasons I've > actually had to think about it this week. I tend to shy away from committees > myself but have had to deal with one lately at work ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:48:03 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #566 anybody know of J's knowledge/use of modern poets besides Yeats? D Thomas, Emily Dickinson, Lorca, neruda, Marianne Moore, w s merwin . . ? Tom Ross Mijazi Music (518) 372-2611 http://www.tom.rossweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:48:56 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Billy Joel/also a Joni question Well, I'm not a fan of Mr. Joel even though I see that there is talent there--it just usually doesn't appeal to me for some reason with one exception: his song AND SO IT GOES is a stunning little construction of sadness and heartache. It's Joel's DOWN TO YOU. Anyone else out there love this tune? Now, my question: I have a hardbound book of sheet music for C&S, Blue, and FTR. I bought it at a library book sale-what a find! But I've heard that there is a softcover folio of FTR that has artwork in it. Is this true? If so, does anyone have any ideas or know of a resource where this may be purchased? Thanks Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:50:08 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #566 Tennessee Williams, though known mostly for his plays, was also a great poet. Joni alludes to Blanche Dubois. Thomas Ross wrote: > anybody know of J's knowledge/use of modern poets besides Yeats? D Thomas, > Emily Dickinson, Lorca, neruda, Marianne Moore, w s merwin . . ? > > Tom Ross > > Mijazi Music > (518) 372-2611 > http://www.tom.rossweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:01:45 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Billy Joel/also a Joni question KJHSF@aol.com wrote: > Well, I'm not a fan of Mr. Joel even though I see that there is talent > there--it just usually doesn't appeal to me for some reason with one > exception: his song AND SO IT GOES is a stunning little construction of > sadness and heartache. It's Joel's DOWN TO YOU. Anyone else out there love > this tune? Absolutely gorgeous music. Flowing, sad lyrics. Betty Buckley sings a wonderful version on her Live at Carnegie Hall cd. And so it goes And so it goes And so will you soon I suppose. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:12:34 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: JMDLers Live from New Orleans (njc) i hope this was a raging success! we soooo wanted to be there for jack's cd release...alas, we were out at a christmas event & even missed the webcast...will it be archived? i'd love to check it out if so... congrats to jack & paz! i can't wait to hear the cd...will it be available on cdbaby? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:19:04 -0500 From: "Erica L. Trudelle" Subject: Re: Billy Joel Jenny wrote: It's all right with me if you don't like his music, but a hack he is not. I still get chills when I hear him sing: "They say that these are not the best of times, but there the only times I'll ever know.....and I believe there is a time for meditation in cathedrals of our own......" With the piano intro!!! I love it, it's not Neil Diamond that defines the divide in the world of music lovers, but rather Billy Joel (or as my dear husband calls him Jilly Bowl), In my years of musical travels it seems people either LOVE him or hate him...... I saw him give a lecture about 7 years ago (very small audience), he was great, he doesn't try to be anything he isn't. Erica Ps, Mariah has her place somewhere in the whole puzzle, you can't say she doesn't have a good voice.....I will never own an CD but I have to give her credit for her vocal talent. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:14:29 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: T'log review- Santa Barbara Independent Joni Mitchell Travelogue-Nonesuch Once she was lonely and lived in a box of paints. Now Jonis canvas and palette are huge and her smoky alto radiates serenity and wisdom. Recorded in a world-class studio with 70-piece orchestra, choir, and top jazzmen, Travelogues meticulous arrangements echo familiar riffs while summoning new emotional landscapes. Many of the 22 songs (selected from her early to more recent works), are astonishingly prophetic and relevant. The double CD also includes her paintings, lyrics and enhanced CD art gallery. Travelogue is a lush cinematic journey best savored by candlelight. Kate Bennett ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:30:40 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: painting with drums blade is painting with drums. he realy adds colours with his gentle special touch. sometimes his beat is even telling the story of the lyrics, as in "the boards and the nails" (Ludwig's tune). he's amazing. love, nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:00:44 -0500 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: sorry, JUDY Actually, as a huge Judy fan, I think you might be right. I found the whole "Judith" album to have a kind of passionless voice. She didn't sound very "on" on this one. "Clowns" is one of the standouts, though. Reuben >>> 12/13/02 10:12AM >>> I shouldn't have called Judy Collins' versions of BSN and SEND IN THE CLOWNS passionless. Sorry. That was uncalled for. M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:12:13 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Usama & the big boobed blonde Well the 'W' very well could mean that since the movie version of the Wizard of Oz has been known to have a lot of political undercurrents to it. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Eric Taylor Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 2:26 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Usama & the big boobed blonde Someone recently questioned my interpretation of the woman scowling at W Bush, depicted in the T'log paintings, as a "bad witch." While this is the first impression Joni seems to be trying to convey, I now see it from an entirely different perspective. Tonight I saw it as yet another self portrait, depicting the way Joni feels about W Bush embroiling the world in Armageddon politics. In this case she is definitely Glinda. This would make W the Wizard of Oz. The JMDL really needs a Joni Paintings Discussion List (JPDL) now that our SIQUOMB is returning to her first love & might even prove to be a better painter than she unquestionably is a musician. Why is this thought so troubling to Joni fans??? ET ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:13:33 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Joni, the musical! LOL!!! Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of colin Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 4:42 AM To: Ricw1217@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni, the musical! Ricw1217@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/12/02 7:05:35 PM, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > >damn. that's me. joni come lately. let's see. i want something >creative! how about i lay down in the middle of the road and a car full of >joni pod people run over me time and time again, > in an SUV of course.... > >i DO like SOME of travelogue. > no special pleading allowed. > i keep expecting to hear bette davis >breathing her last as the room goes dark! > now that evil smoker lived a long life....... > >and to think if i had JUST KEPT MY BIG MOUTH SHUT, i could have probably >infiltrated this list's inner circle! (i know, i know...pipe dream...) > are you prepared to debase yourself, drink the blood of Joni bashers, and wear a blonde wig? > >love, ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:21:01 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: RE: Joni never inhaled so in what way, like joni said, smoking makes her sound better? i think it's her secret wish to sound like a man. an old man. love, nuriel - --- "Victor Johnson" wrote: >> Bob, I couldn't disagree more. When I listened to it Friday night - >> start to finish, both discs - I listened not only in the dark >> (candlelight, Kate), but with headphones on. I was struck by the sound >> of her breathing in, found it painful to listen to. > >Holley had the same reaction...she found it painful to listen to though she >also loves her voice. > >Victor in Asheville > > > > > >--- Victor Johnson >--- waytoblu@mindspring.com >Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson > >Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 >Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:26:16 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Billy Joel njc Victor Johnson wrote: >>The irony...Uptown Girl is my least favorite Billy >>Joel song. >> >> > > >Reminds me of when you mention Joni Mitchell to someone and they tell you >how much they love "Big Yellow Taxi" but seem to not be aware that she has >a plethora of other material that you don't hear on all the "Clear Channel" >radio stations or see videos for. Most of my favorite songs by Billy Joel >are the more obscure ones. > > > same goes for Carly. You're So Vain and that is it. A while ago the phone person at my bank said her name was Carly. Oh, I said, my favourite singer. mmm... she said...my father likes her. ouch! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:31:48 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: headphones for Joni (NJC) If I got headphones, it would be to use in bed. I have a small unit in there. the sound is fine. I was wondering if it is worth getting expensive headphones that are likely to cost more than the unit I am playing on. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:40:13 EST From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Detroit in '68 This is just an afterthought, but I'm wondering why Joni didn't choose to change this line ("the last time I saw Richard was Detroit in '68 and he told me...") from T'Log to a more recent date (i.e., "Detroit in '88" or maybe "Detroit in '98." However, "Detroit in '78" certainly wouldn't/doesn't scan right). I mean, back when the song was originally released (in '71), the "Detroit in '68" line would have been only 2 or 3 years earlier, rather than almost 35 years ago. I think with the update, younger fans could have related to the immediate sentiments a bit more, rather than what must seem like ancient history to many. The only legitimate reason I can think she might argue against this change would be due to the factual dishonesty it would express (especially since it's such a direct and specific personal reference). After all, she made several other changes in lyrics---apparently without blinking an eye. Any thoughts and/or opinions on this? BTW, I'm finally beginning to really did T'Log---particularly STBethlehem, YDFlat Tires, BCool, TDawntreader, TCGame, WStock, GMBABoogieM, and O&Marlena (among others). Personally, I still think it's a bit bombastic and over-blown at times---and I could also do without the relentless input of Wayne Shorter---but over-all I feel it's a very successful, impressive and ambitious project (at least on it's own terms), and I would never seriously presume to second-guess the great Joni Mitchell. ;-) XXXOOO, Billy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 18:03:28 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Red or White Billy or Mariah A bottle of red a bottle of white Each to there own I guess. I'll have a soda please. Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:56:52 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: My best music of the year SJC! Okay apart from TLOG which I truly love I've been listening to these albums constantly this year:- COME AWAY WITH ME ~ NORAH JONES Lovely voice. Reminds me of my time in New York where I got it in the summer. Nice evening music. ELI & THE THIRTEENTH CONFESSION (remaster) ~ LAURA NYRO Such a revealation. I can't believe she's so unknown. What a voice and I love those tempo changes. She can do really happy songs and then extremly sad songs. Can't wait to get New York Tandenberry. LAND (1975-2002) PATTI SMITH Okay so I still haven't given it as much of a listen as I think it deserves but from what I have listened to is verry good. Free money really stands out so far. NIGHT ON MY SIDE ~ GEMMA HAYES She has only just begun! Slow burning but timeless. Plays in altered tunings too! I've seen her live twice (is there anybody better live). The second time in Brighton her support act was Sondre Lerche who really wowed me. I've heard the albums production (FACES DOWN) is bad though. Anybody got it? SCARLET'S WALK ~ TORI AMOS Wow! What a return to form. I love this album all the way through to the 18th track. 'I Can't See New York' is very touching. One of her best or maybe even just her best album yet! STEVE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:15:14 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: Detroit in '68 Billy wrote:- > This is just an afterthought, but I'm wondering why Joni didn't choose to > change this line ("the last time I saw Richard was Detroit in '68 and he told > me...") from T'Log to a more recent date (i.e., "Detroit in '88" or maybe > "Detroit in '98." The other lyric changes she made were factual which I think is important. Saying that I wonder if '68 was the last time she saw Richard (Chuck)? STEVE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 18:27:19 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: Detroit in '68 I know you meant Chuck Mitchell whom I've always assumed Richard was but the last time I saw her was Toronto thurs Oct 29 1998 and she told me...:-) Chuck - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Toogood" To: "Joni List" Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 6:15 PM Subject: Re: Detroit in '68 > Billy wrote:- > > This is just an afterthought, but I'm wondering why Joni didn't choose to > > change this line ("the last time I saw Richard was Detroit in '68 and he > told > me...") from T'Log to a more recent date (i.e., "Detroit in '88" or > maybe > > "Detroit in '98." > > The other lyric changes she made were factual which I think is important. > Saying that I wonder if '68 was the last time she saw Richard (Chuck)? > > STEVE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 18:49:32 -0500 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Red or White & why I'm tired of Ms. Mitchell Soda for me, too. Dr. Pepper okay? I've been enjoying the Travelogue reviews, good and bad. I like the album in general. There are some absolute gems ("Dawntreader" "Hejira", ALL of the WTRF trax), and some drek - I won't name names, its all just my opinion, anyway. I've been having trouble with Joni in general lately, to be honest. She is, I think, coming across as insincere in her rehash of why she hates the biz, and this whole latest round of public bitching smacks of the shameless self-promotion that she keeps talking about hating. I don't buy it. In the immortal words of Dolly Parton: "Tinkle or get off the potty." I've recently rediscovered Rickie Lee Jones, who I have not paid much attention to in the past. I'm not going to make any comparisons between the two, but I have to say that at this point, Rickie Lee has Joni beat in the creativity department. "Ghostyhead" and "Its Like This" have been in heavy rotation for the last couple of months, and I'm overly impressed with Jones' recent work. Its edgy and interesting, and bears repeated listenings, much like Joni's albums up until Turbulent Indigo, which I think was the last great Mitchell album. Not since TI (and the excellent Painting With Words and Music project) has Joni done anything that pushed her limits as she has always done in the past. I don't find TTT, BSN, or T'Log particularly grabbing listens. Why has she been treading water for the last 10 years? I miss the edge, and I miss the passion. I hope it returns, or I hope she goes to painting full time. I guess I'm with Azeem (or whoever it was...), and am officially not longer worshiping at the Mitchell shrine. I'm tired of the posing. It used to be okay when the artistic colors balanced it all out. Joni is all one mean red, now, and this fan is not clapping. That said, I do like Travelogue. The overwhelming sadness and weariness is stunning, and wish that this album had been released before BSN. This is the one that should have gotten the accolades. Who are you and what have you done with Joni Mitchell? Reuben in Philly >>> "chuty001" 12/13/02 06:03PM >>> A bottle of red a bottle of white Each to there own I guess. I'll have a soda please. Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:46:05 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: stevie wonder njc was at a holiday party last night with piped in music playing in the background (thank gawd no christmas music) i heard one of my favorite stevie wonder songs (love's in need of love today) being sung by someone who sounded familiar but i couldn't place the singer in all the chatter of the room- it was a female with sort of a husky & interesting voice...has anyone heard this? it sounded great from the little i could hear of it...(i'm betting coverbob is the first to know the answer to this!) ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 00:08:53 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: Chat room, anyone (NJC) So I'm sitting here bored at home, I'm fed up with rattling around the house, and while it's midnight UK time, I'm still wide awake. So I'm in the chat room in case anyone cares to drift by. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:39:58 -0600 From: johnirving Subject: Azeem review. - -Don't hurt your ears man... Azeem, can I have your copy?!?!?!?! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 16:11:04 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: stevie wonder song njc answering my own question! it's joan osborne...a new album called how sweet it is...check it out... http://home.promosquad.com/joanosborne/joan.html ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 20:16:19 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Azeem review. In a message dated 14/12/2002 00:17:49 GMT Standard Time, johnirving@tbcnet.com writes: - -Don't hurt your ears man... Azeem, can I have your copy?!?!?!?! It's already gone! I swapped it for new albums by Robert Plant (50-something who knows his strengths and limitations and who's still trying new things) and Kathryn Williams (superb young songwriter with a distinctive voice, bursting with talent and vitality). Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:07:26 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: signing off dear mark: i know what you mean about computer at work, computer at home, why? but your symptoms sound more like phone pain. do you have a headset at work? it's a real neck-saver. that said, you know how important you are to this list. take some time off, if you need, but please, please do come back, if only to tell us about your burgeoning appreciation for rickie lee jones... with much love and affection. patrick np - siberry, maria ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:07:24 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: RE: Joni, the musical! njc - now, billy joel! the musical! yep, it did make your point. and it's great to see you posting so regularly... patrick np - jane siberry - oh shenandoah >My point is still that this sort of thing has been done before, >and it could be done with Joni's music. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 18:46:54 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Billy Joel njc SCBob wrote: > To fully appreciate his talent, give a spin to his 70's hat trick: > > The Stranger - 52nd Street Billy can sound a little hammy in retrospect but, at the time, his music was a bright standout. For these two albums alone I'm in. For "Rosalinda's Eyes" alone, I will always love him. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 18:55:51 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Travelogue, touring and "painting" A Starry Night Again As an ear and eye witness to the event, she was actually being very gracious in light of the disruptors who stood out like sore thumbs in an otherwise mellow concert. At the time, I only heard part of the heckling. A few months ago I listened more intently to the "chatter" version of MOA and could heard much more which I transcribed here for the list. Sounded like a bunch of people near the front row in full party mode (i.e. boisterously inebriated) who were yelling "play [this and that] damn it!" After a long time of this, Joni made her Starry Night remark and even the partiers were cool with it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:10:26 EST From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: signing off Mark, I echo Patrick's sentiments. I may only be a lurker, but there will be a huge gap in this list when you go. Please consider returning when you feel better. xoxox Terry www.addconsults.com > you know how important you are to this list. take some time off, > if you need, but please, please do come back, if only to tell us about your > burgeoning appreciation for rickie lee jones... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:08:36 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Billy Joel njc In a message dated 12/13/2002 9:46:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: > For "Rosalinda's > Eyes" alone, I will always love him. > And for "Prelude to Angry Young Man" from Turnstiles (that whole record, actually) that gave us Ben Folds 20 years later, I'm grateful too! I saw Joel twice on the 52nd St. tour (Greensboro/Raleigh) - both were great shows. Bob NP: Trapt, "Headstrong" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:10:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: stevie wonder njc In a message dated 12/13/2002 6:53:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > ...(i'm > betting coverbob is the first to know the answer to this!) > Well, like you said, you beat me to it Kate! That new Joan Osborne is currently at the top of my want list. She can take a really familiar song and make it her own. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:14:36 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Hey Joni, listen to this! njc In a message dated 12/13/2002 1:33:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, guitarzan@direcpc.com writes: > Wouldn't you like to sit her > down and play her something and say 'what about this'? What > would you play for her? > Well, after a couple of covers CD's.....:~) I hope that she's heard Beck's "Sea Change". Bob NP: Gang Of Four, "Outside The Trains Don't Run On Time" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #567 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)