From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #558 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, December 9 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 558 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Hammerskins? njc [Catherine McKay ] false alarms ["Kate Bennett" ] ebay ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: false alarms [Catherine McKay ] Re: false alarms [Catherine McKay ] Re: false alarms ["Lori Fye" ] Does anyone love the CLC books? [Relayer211@aol.com] RE: false alarms ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: flase alarms [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: "in a bell jar" [Jenny Goodspeed ] ebay ["Kate Bennett" ] false alarms ["Kate Bennett" ] False alarms [Steve Dulson ] Re:Peter Gabriel - Joni content [Patti Witten ] Re: Does anyone love the CLC books? [Catherine McKay ] Re: Of All Time [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Of All Time ["hell" ] Re: False alarms ["hell" ] Re: False alarms (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Fave/least lave [John Sprackland ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #557/joni's lithograph [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: Fave/least lave ["hell" ] Re: Fave/least lave ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Fave/least lave [Catherine McKay ] Re: False alarms [Little Bird ] Re: Fave/least lave ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: False alarms [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #548 [Kardinel@aol.com] Joni's pronunciation of Hejira [Merk54@aol.com] Re: Joni's pronunciation of Hejira ["RSM" ] Travelogue (those of a nervous disposition please avert your eyes ;-) [Az] Re: flase alarms ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: false alarms [colin ] Re: Joni's pronunciation of Hejira ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Hejira pronunciation [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: weird njc [Catherine McKay ] Song for Sharon and False Alarms [Merk54@aol.com] RE: Hejira pronunciation ["Heather" ] Re: Does anyone love the CLC books? [Deb Messling ] Re: Fave/least lave [Deb Messling ] Re: False alarms ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: weird njc [colin ] Refuge of the Roads ["PAUL PETERSON" ] false alarms ["PAUL PETERSON" ] Re: ebay ["kakki" ] Odd Joni news [Little Bird ] No longer want to be on mailing list ["Hattie" ] Re: False alarms [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: False alarms and mondegreens? - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Sunshine NJC [Tyler Hewitt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:59:43 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Hammerskins? njc --- Sybil Skelton wrote: > Just when you start to feel like we haven't made any > progress at all as a > civilization, something happens to slap you right in > the face. > > This weekend, my 13 year old daughter and I were > watching a movie - the > setting is 1930s Alabama. During a courtroom scene, > as the camera pans the > room showing the "colored" section in the balcony, > my daughter pipes up - > "well, if they hated black people so much, why did > they give them the best > seats?" Yes! Excellent! Don't you love kids? Give that girl and extra hug for me! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:14:42 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: false alarms but the myth is also about this- first he ascended & (foolishly) got too close (to the sun) & was burned & fell into the sea...a perfect love affair analogy... >>I just noticed that "Icarus *ascending* on beautiful foolish arms" defies the myth of Icarus actually *descending* with wings burnt by the sun.<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:14:41 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: ebay to answer part b)- i'm working with a very respected, legit nonprofit right now that plans to auction items on ebay... jim asked: >>The ad implies that Joni signed it for the purpose of raising funds for a charity or political movement. I don't think it's a charity though because a.) they don't offer their non-profit # and b.) what kind of charity runs auctions on ebay?<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:12:16 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: false alarms --- Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > > There have been scores of books written about Bob > Dylan. Many of them have been dreadful scholarly > tomes that made money and more importantly, found an > audience that needed to hear the drum beat. > [...] no one has yet written a dreadful > scholarly > tome about Joni's lyrics. There's a market. It's > just too bad that Joni's lyrics don't stand up to > repeated examination, like say, constant > contemplation > over 20 years. NOT!! > > Do we need credentials to get a book published or > just > enough chuzpah to knock on doors? I can just see > the > cover letter: "Here's my manuscript. I'm an IT guy > who's a Joni fan but this isn't a fan book. I have > no > credentials as an author or as a scholar but I've > written a scholarly book." > I wasn't sure at this point whether to call this jc or njc so forgive me for opting in favour of keeping it jc. There are scholarly tomes and scholary tomes. I get distracted by constant footnotes (I have a short attention span and I can never figure out where my eyes are supposed to go next.) And the ones I'm referring to are the ones that overanalyze to the point where you get so sick of the original work you never want to see/hear it again. I think a serious study of Joni's work would fly, as a matter of fact, so go for it. Don't tell them you're an IT guy, don't knock on doors and don't send them the whole manuscript. Tell them you've been studying Joni's music for however-many years and don't mention your day job. Send them an outline of what the book is about in clear, concise language and send them a sample chapter only. Send it through the mail. Oh yeah, call them first and ask them how they want their manuscripts sent; then follow it to the letter. Make it neat and easy to read. Choose an easy-to-read typeface and try not to spill coffee on it. Affix sufficient postage and a stamped self-addressed return envelope. If they tell you they're not taking any unsolicited manuscripts, send it anyway, but choose publishers that you think would be best suited to it. Be prepared to be rejected many times, but keep going anyway. The odds are in your favour. Ultimately someone will take it (probably?); if not, there are people here who would buy it. That way may not make you rich, but you will know your work is appreciated and will be read and you might make a few (not a lot of) bucks at the same time. Have fun. Always good at providing advice to others; rarely good at accepting it myself... ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:15:53 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: false alarms --- Kate Bennett wrote: > but the myth is also about this- first he ascended & > (foolishly) got too > close (to the sun) & was burned & fell into the > sea...a perfect love affair > analogy... > Very true, and the thing is, if you don't try, you don't even get warm. You don't get to come in from the cold. Better to have loved and lost and all that. Waaaahhh - why can't it be easier??? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 10:16:55 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: false alarms > but the myth is also about this- first he ascended & (foolishly) got > too close (to the sun) & was burned & fell into the sea...a perfect > love affair analogy... Also a perfect companion to the belief that Amelia fell into the sea ... Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:19:48 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Does anyone love the CLC books? In many libraries they have in the referance section,the "clc" books series-contemporary literary critisism.there are about 55 or so volumes in this series I think.personally,i find the books very interesting.each book contains a collection of reviews of novelists,poets,songwriters,playwrights and non fiction writers...Joni is reviewd in volume 12. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 14:58:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: false alarms actually, icarus didn't crash into the sun and burn. daedalus and his son icarus were imprisoned in the cretan labyrinth, which daedalus himself had created. so daedalus made wax wings for himself and his son in order to escape. daedalus warned icarus that they should never fly too close to the sun but icarus, tempted by the beauty of the sun and the exhilaration of flying higher and higher, disobeyed his father. in the end, his wax wings melted and he fell and perished. it is one of my favorite greek myths. maybe joni means every time you fall in love you think it's the real thing but it's just a matter of time before your wax wings melt and you land on our ass. if that's what she meant, i agree with mitchell. wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 14:41:14 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: Re: flase alarms Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. I know I'm trying to be a little too analytical about this. Joni's meanings (in her best songs) are conveyed implicitly, not obviously. That's part of the beauty of them. I get caught up on the word IT though -- so specific, so particular, yet with no clear corresponding subject (maybe that's part of the point). I guess the song's about the sadness (tragedy) of noble failure. So why title her latest work TRAVELOGUE, with the clear reference to Amelia and a life filled with picture postcard charms. The regret in that verse stems from the realization that the inspired urgency of exploration has resulted in nothing more than a collection of sweet little snapshots. I wouldn't think she would view her life's work that way. Or does she see the title to simply mean a tour of her work? But then she prints the postcard line in the booklet. I read 'picture postcard charms' as a dismissive phrase, signifying something of little lasting value. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:53:55 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: "in a bell jar" Because Joni has often commented on her guitar tuning and technique - how she uses the guitar to create more orchestral sounds -- I think Travelogue is a natural progression, having an actual orchestra at her disposal. I'm so curious if Mendoza's arrangements are his entirely (based on her original songs) or if they collaborated some. I found this quote in the jmdl library from a 1990 interview, but I think it can be applied to Travelogue: FROM: Diary of a Decade with Trevor Dunn for Greater London Radio. Taped 6/9/90. Broadcast 7/9/90. JM: Well, I think each record -- it's all experimental work. You can't -- you can't just go "this works" and stay there. It would be terribly dull, you know. Like I mean my patron saints, Miles Davis and Picasso, are restless people. I'm a restless artist. I try different things, and they succeed or fail depending on who you talk to. We mixed those albums for what we thought was appropriate for the music at the time, you know. To me, the orchestration is as important as the words, but not to a lot of people. It depends who you're listening to. People who like instrumental music, they like that, you know, they like that attention to detail. Some people would rather that I just did everything with the guitar and nothing else. Had I done that, I wouldn't be alive in this business today, you know? Jenny (digesting Travelogue a little more before commenting, too) - --- Emily Gray Tedrowe wrote: > hi all. i haven't written anything about > "travelogue" because i'm still > trying to give it a full, fair chance--i really > would like to find more things > about it that i like. having listened a number of > times, my biggest > obstacle with this project is that i just don't see > the thematic or artistic > need these songs have for such over-the-top > arrangements. maybe > "sire of sorrow" etc. do have the larger themes that > call for bombast, > but so many of these songs i feel are intimate, > gemlike stories of life > (rendered exquisitely by joni's lyrics and original > music), and to hear them > awash in huge arrangements of dozens of > instruments...why? is > what i keep coming back to. i just keep thinking, > ick. > > what a bummer! there's not much in this album that > challenges me > the way the originals do... > possibly the problem is that joni loves this "kind" > of music (big, > dramatic, theatrical, etc.) and i just happen > to...not. a personal thing? > possibly. still, i would love to ask her why she > believes these songs > need (or could benefit from) this kind of > treatment--the form and the > content don't seem to jibe, in my opinion. > > and the WORST of it all, is that i can hardly stand > to listen to one > of my favorites as it is done > here..."judgment"--because i find that > the vocal performance is so grating and awful. in > particular, i cringe > every time she sings "in a bell jar"--she YELPS it, > to my mind. > the "hey hey heeeeyyyyyy"s that come soon after are > also so > icky. i don't feel this is a voice deterioration > issue as much as it > is a stylistic choice that i find a real clunker. > > and i remember swooning when she sang this in the > BSN concert! > huh. > > i'm sorry to have so much negativity here--there are > songs on "travelogue" > that i do like to listen to--"flat tires," "love," > and one or two others i can't > remember ("be cool"?) off the top of my head. oh > and "otis and marlena." > > so i'm not giving up--yet. if joni finds worth in > this project, then i'll > work pretty hard to give it a fair shake. the > booklet is so lush and > pretty--silver lining? cold comfort at this stage! > > -- emily, in chicago Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:00:08 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: ebay when something is purchased from a nonprofit, the value of the item is not tax deductible but the amount above that value usually is... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:00:09 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: false alarms >>The whole thing seems to be very stream-of-consciousness type of writing and yet its construction is so tight that it couldn't be.<< that is the way i see it too...the tight construction may be due to a bit of fine tuning on joni's part but some special songs do just come out perfectly formed...amelia has that feeling about it ... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:23:47 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: False alarms Nuriel wrote: >i think that the false alarm moto refers to the 6 plains she saw. >the plains >were probably called on a mission a drill maybe an atack >that turned out to be >a false alarm. makes sense, eh? If you've ever driven across "the burning desert" from LA to say Albuquerque you can see six, or a dozen, commercial jetliners at any one time flying from LA to the east coast, leaving vapor trails. As for false alarms...I always think of the radio messages from Amelia, and the sightings of her and her plane over the years... they all turned out to be false alarms... - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 14:34:06 -0400 From: Patti Witten Subject: Re:Peter Gabriel - Joni content > Rachel Z. The program notes say that she has an > album out called "Moon at the Window Google turned this up: http://www.allaboutjazz.com/reviews/r1102_147.htm Moon at the Window Rachel Z Trio - Tone Center Rachel Z's tribute to Joni Mitchell has perhaps arrived at just the right time, hot on the heels of Mitchell's decision to never record again. No doubt her die-hard fans will be clamoring for as much original and tribute material as possible, and a good many will find joy in this comfortable instrumental release. It's impossible not to like the buoyant, loving arrangements that Rachel Z has collected here. However, for as many popular tunes as Joni Mitchell has created over the past three decades, this homage clarifies the fact that she a stronger lyricist than a composer. The jaunty theme of "Big Yellow Taxi" jumps right out, but like many of the selections here, the melody becomes a bit repetitive without the witty, socially conscious lyrics to fill things out. The three musicians perform exquisitely as a unit, often with a sense of David Benoit's lighter piano works. There are a number of charming twists and turns in the charts. Of particular note are Patricia Des Lauriers' resonant double-stops on the closing "Lakota", and Bobbie Rae's subtly effective rhyhmic matrices throughout the disc. The lush piano ripplings on "Chinese Cafe" and taut interaction on "Free Man in Paris" are attention-grabbers, and "From Both Sides Now" receives what is perhaps its most introspective interpretation yet. This music is obviously close to Rachel Z's heart. The only real beef remains a major one: Joni Mitchell's musical universe is so centered upon her words that it's hard for anyone to do her justice in an instrumental setting. No harm, no foul, then. The trio has made an admirable attempt at honoring a legend, resulting in a truly uplifting album. ~ Todd S. Jenkins Patti - -- http://pattiwitten.com New CD "Sycamore Tryst" http://sycamoretryst.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:01:27 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Does anyone love the CLC books? --- Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > In many libraries they have in the referance > section,the "clc" books > series-contemporary literary critisism.there are > about 55 or so volumes in > this series I think.personally,i find the books very > interesting.each book > contains a collection of reviews of > novelists,poets,songwriters,playwrights > and non fiction writers...Joni is reviewd in volume > 12. I've never seen these. Is the Joni section very long? I wonder if it's in the articles database? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:32:53 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: False alarms I too have revisited this song, in part, because of its use of travelogue. I love the song, but never really understood the false alarm line either. Just recently, however, I have had some half-baked thoughts. I think the song is about choosing aspirations -- art/career/travel -- over love/family/a more mundane life which might be more meaningful. This is a theme that runs throughout Hejira (esp. Song for Sharon) and her other albums. Some pedestrian logic: Flight = aspirations of success or career. An alarm during flight would be sign that there would be a crash -- find a different path or life. A false alarm would be that she thinks she might have found a new life/love but it proved wrong -- she really didn't fall out of her career path. She chooses Amelia Earhart as an archtype of this choice of fame over family. My impressions of her was that she was a highly driven and independent woman who choose career/fame over all things and ended with just that -- fame. JM is, I think, comparing her life choices to Amelia's. When she assures Amelia its was just a false alarm, she is saying that nothing has really changed -- she is still on the same Earhart path. She may not be happy about it -- it just is what it is. She speaks of getting seduced by the roaring engines (by a career), you end up with your travelogue of snippets of memories (picture post card charms) but nothing of substance (no family, long term love). JM's use of Travelogue for her latest offering is boldly ironic -- she is offering those fruits of her journey. JM also compares herself to Icarus who aspired to the sun -- too high, too foolish, too proud (hubris in an earlier post) just as Joni aspired to her career. Looking back on it, she may be questioning some of her choices. Where they foolish, the product of youthful exhuberance. [Spell check!!] The key to me is the following: Maybe I've never really loved I guess that is the truth I've spent my whole life in clouds at icy altitude And looking down on everything I crashed into his arms Amelia it was just a false alarm She questions whether she has really loved (rather than having been loved). Comparing her circumstance to flying in icy altitudes and observing rather than crashing/committing. She crashes for a guy, but it fails -- he orders her away. She ends up back on the road in the last stanza. Man, is this a depressing song now that I think about it. In any event, I don't know if this is what she really meant to convey, but works for me at least. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:46:12 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Of All Time - --- KLCass21@aol.com wrote: > >>> Favorite live performance? > 3 way tie: In France They Kiss and Amelia (both from S&L) and Cactus Tree > (MOA) I love Cactus Tree here as well, but I thought I would throw out two performances I remember as my favorite Joni moments, "first hand" ... January 1972 - This Flight Tonight - That moment I heard her sing out live for the very first time, strumming that big 12 string she used to carry around - stop I'm getting teary - mostly cause I was soooo young then! - about 5 I think :-P Opening song again - Ravinia 1974 MOA tour, my own lost tape of Joni doing "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio." Really loved her improvising and "yodeling" as some of you refer to it even more so than on MOA the finished product! Funny these two are great songs, no doubt - although not my favorites as Joni songs, well I really do love TFT. Great memories nonetheless. Peace, Susan Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:02:18 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Of All Time Hmmmm.... tough question! My favourite is harder to pick than my least favourite, but I'm going to have to go with The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, or For The Roses, no wait...... Hejira. OK, finally choice..... Song For Sharon. With the others I've mentioned a VERY close second! I've just realised that three out of those four are title tracks.... interesting! Least favourite would be Tin Angel, or possibly Taming The Tiger (another title track!) - although Tiger Bones is up there with my favourites - if only she hadn't added that stupid "Nice kitty, kitty" line! Favourite live performance is Black Crow from S&L, followed closely by Love Or Money (MOA) Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:06:05 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: False alarms All this talk about Amelia and Icarus has got me wondering how many contemporary artists have written about or referred to Greek (or Roman) mythology in a song? Amelia is the first obvious choice, and I can think of one other: Stephen Stills wrote a song called "Myth Of Sisyphus" on his 1975 album "Stills". Any others out there? Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 16:13:17 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: False alarms (njc) > All this talk about Amelia and Icarus has got me wondering how many > contemporary artists have written about or referred to Greek (or Roman) > mythology in a song? David Sylvian "Orpheus" from Secrets of the Beehive Iron Maiden "Flight of Icarus" from Piece of Mind Victor in Asheville - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 21:31:33 +0000 From: John Sprackland Subject: Fave/least lave Favourite thing about this discussion list: When someone points you back in the direction of a great recording that you had previously overlooked (recent example, Cactus Tree on MoA - thanks!) Least favourite thing: When someone posts a 'me too' reply, followed by a two page quote of the original message! Seriously though folks, just joined the list a week ago and loving it. To give my twopenn'orth on recent themes.... Travelogue: Just fascinating! I haven't even got round to thinking whether its good yet. Hope she doesn't bring out another album too soon - - going to take be a couple of years of listening 'cos I put on Otis and Marlena then get DJRD out to listen to the original, end up listening to whole album, etc. etc. (Hope she DOES bring out another album though!) Wish List: Yeah, I agree with Moon at the Window, and, sorry to whoever said it was their least fave but, Three Great Stimulants, which I think is a great song. Fave song performance: I guess everyone's trying to avoid the obvious or surely someone else would have said 'A Case of You' (original version over the BSN version, but only just). For the less obvious, the song that I seem to love more than most (going by the poll list) is 'The Wolf That Lives in Lindsay' - have to play it whenever I feel ' the stab and glare and buckshot of the heavy, heavy snow'. And the wolves thrill me (so much better that 'Kitty,Kitty'!) Least Faves: One of those 80's songs that I'd forgotten about until people here reminded me (e.g. Dancing Clown...). I think 'You're so Square' is TOTALLY square for the same reason someone said that 'Twisted' was ie not Joni (though I disagee - I love Twisted but I love Lambert, Hendricks and Ross) Whoa! Getting too long - I'll save the rest. But just one question that I've waited a long time to get answered... just how DO you pronounce Hejira? Phonetic spellings please! John - -- John Sprackland ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 16:37:57 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #557/joni's lithograph Roland at People for American Way has informed me that 100% of the proceeds of the auction from the sale of the lithograph (ebay item# 928798681) will go th their organization/charity. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:41:58 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Fave/least lave > Whoa! Getting too long - I'll save the rest. But just one question that > I've waited a long time to get answered... just how DO you pronounce > Hejira? Phonetic spellings please! Well, I'm from NZ so my accent might not be the same as those from the US ;o), but "I" pronounce it (following Joni) as Heh-GEE-ra (with a soft "g", as in genius). I think..... Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 16:50:51 -0500 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Fave/least lave I think thats how Joni says, it too. I have always tended to say it the other way (heh-geye-raa), but I'm originally from Oklahoma, so that may explain that. Reuben Hell wrote: Well, I'm from NZ so my accent might not be the same as those from the US ;o), but "I" pronounce it (following Joni) as Heh-GEE-ra (with a soft "g", as in genius). I think..... Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 16:48:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Fave/least lave --- John Sprackland wrote: > Favourite thing about this discussion list: > When someone points you back in the direction of a > great recording that > you had previously overlooked (recent example, > Cactus Tree on MoA - > thanks!) > > Least favourite thing: > When someone posts a 'me too' reply, followed by a > two page quote of the > original message! Well, I WAS going to say "Me too", but on second thought... good point though, your first one. That's one of the things I love about this list - being reminded of wonderful things that might have been on the back burner. I feel renewed. I usually don't go for the "what's your favourite Joni song? album? desert island pick?" thing because I could never pick just one; besides, it's unlikely there'd be a decent stereo on the island in any case, and it would be ultimately too frustrating. > just one question that > I've waited a long time to get answered... just how > DO you pronounce > Hejira? Phonetic spellings please! Hey, Jeera! Welcome to the list. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:58:51 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: False alarms Annie Lennox has an album called "Medusa" - does that count? hell wrote:All this talk about Amelia and Icarus has got me wondering how many contemporary artists have written about or referred to Greek (or Roman) mythology in a song? Amelia is the first obvious choice, and I can think of one other: Stephen Stills wrote a song called "Myth Of Sisyphus" on his 1975 album "Stills". Any others out there? Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:52:49 -0600 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Fave/least lave <> according to webster's, two proper pronunciations - first, huh - 'ji - ruh the e pronounced like the i in 'hit,' the i pronounced like the i in 'ice' and the a pronounced like the a in 'abut,' and with the accent on the second syllable second, 'hej - uh - ruh the e pronounced like e in 'bet,' the i and the a like the a in 'abut,' with the accent on the first syllable. but yeah, i'm pretty sure that joni pronounces it like hell does. and accent aside, i do, too. and by the way, welcome to you, john. we're glad you're here. post often. we're always glad to have new insights and new opinions. cindy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:13:34 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: False alarms In a message dated 12/9/2002 3:33:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, rstm@ayso-l.org writes: > I've spent my whole life in clouds at icy altitude > And looking down on everything > I crashed into his arms > Amelia it was just a false alarm > > She questions whether she has really loved (rather than having been loved). > Comparing her circumstance to flying in icy altitudes and observing rather > than crashing/committing. I've thought that she was making reference to the album "Clouds" and to the naive outlook from Both Sides Now--"I've looked at clouds that way." It's as if she's looking back on her cloud ruminations and realized that her old theories about the subject aren't nearly as important as the fact that she remained distanced throughout all of it. She was trying to figure out the nature of love in Both Sides Now with the metaphors of clouds, and in Amelia she's realized that what she thought she knew was not really truth, but false alarms. Her reference in the next verse to Cactus Tree seals the deal on how the tables have turned. It is simply brilliant songwriting and becomes even richer when you're in on her self-reference. Has anyone else heard the background voicing she does as she sings "His sad request of me to kindly stay away..." I love the way she's kind of humming and making a little kid airplane sound at the last little bit of the line. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:14:09 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #548 She was in her prime in Hejira, The statute should reflect that. A more mature woman rather than a girlish one. Maureen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 17:29:18 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Joni's pronunciation of Hejira If I'm not mistaken, Joni pronounces Hejira on PWWAM, in case you want to know for sure how she says it. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 14:42:02 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: Joni's pronunciation of Hejira I am not sure if I want to know how it is suppose to sound, I know how it sounds in my head and I like it that way. Reminds me of when I was in middle school and my friends and I debated how to pronounce the last syllable in "Gandalf" from the Rings Trilogy. I heard it with the L pronounce; one of my friends pronounced it like half or calf, without the L. The movie proved me correct, 34 years later. With Hejira, I hear Heh+J[eye]+rah -- the i is long like the word "eye." At least one on-line dictionary agrees with me: see http://www.bartleby.com/61/84/H0128400.html and click on the speaker next to the word pronunciation to hear it pronounced by Lurch from the only Adams family show. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 2:29 PM Subject: Joni's pronunciation of Hejira > If I'm not mistaken, Joni pronounces Hejira on PWWAM, in case you want to know for sure how she says it. > > Jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:02:31 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Travelogue (those of a nervous disposition please avert your eyes ;-) Well, I've slaved through the whole damn thing, and my overriding response is a wish that Mr Mendoza had been shown the red card before the project got the green light. As I've heard more and listened at higher volume, the arrangements have seemed, increasingly, to be meretricious in the extreme, flattering to deceive. Sadly, my experience of his labours with BSN was that I liked them LESS every time I heard them! My gut feeling is that Travelogue will not reverse this process. As TLTISW ground to a halt, I thought to myself that Joni's piano and vocal version of this song on Blue was infinitely more eloquent than this elephantine plod. Someone (one of the other Doubting Thomases) also flagged Wayne Shorter's contributions as a major irritant, and I have to agree wholeheartedly: to these ears they add nothing whatsoever. And I admit it, I couldn't bring myself to listen to this version of Hejira to the end. The greatest song on the greatest album of all time, desecrated by the arrangement and rendered pitiful by the weakness of the singing. Obviously, some of you will be thinking "jeez, has he been listening to the same record I've heard?" just as I've read some of the glowing reviews thinking exactly the same thing. Vive la difference. Joni's still the greatest; this album, for this listener, is a disaster. Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:19:24 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: flase alarms For me the title works because at the conclusion of a listen I feel as if I have taken a very personal journey over landscapes of the mind, body, heart, and soul. I am left pensive and reflective. Its a good thing. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 23:27:53 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: false alarms >maybe joni means every time you fall in love you think it's the real thing >but it's just a matter of time before your wax wings melt and you land on >our ass. if that's what she meant, i agree with mitchell. > was she being that cyncical? not all love fails. If , and only if, one can take any credence in what has been written about Joni or what she hereself has said, I imagine relationships with her would be veyr difficult. she appears demanding and controlling and not very tolerant. I wonder if even Joni falls in love with her idea of someone instead of the reality of someone? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 15:32:32 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Joni's pronunciation of Hejira I've always pronounced it "heh-zheer-ah" with the accent on the second syllable. And that's the way I'm going to continue to pronounce it, regardless. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 23:48:40 +0000 From: colin Subject: weird njc When i opened my mails, evry single one, regardless of who it is from or what the subjct line was, was a post from catherine to Jim which began: I wasn't sure at this point whether to call this jc or njc so forgive me for opting in favour of keeping it jc. I have a virus protector. no warning was given nor did i see attcahments. i closed and restarted my mail prgram to no avial. i restarted the oc to no avail. eventually i just delted all my mail. I have never experienced anythign like this before. what did I do Catherine? your power scares me. ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:57:06 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira pronunciation Hell wrote: <> I'd have to go along with Hell on this one (and she does have a great NZ accent). There are other correct ways to pronounce Hejira, but this is the way I think Joni says it. I'm just glad my Mom doesn't try to pronounce it. I don't know if it's a southern thing, but she'd pronounce it Heh GEE Rer, like when she says Hawaiier and a million other things she puts a "R" at the end :) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:29:03 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: weird njc --- colin wrote: > When i opened my mails, evry single one, regardless > of who it is from or > what the subjct line was, was a post from catherine > to Jim > I have a virus protector. no warning was given nor > did i see > attcahments. i closed and restarted my mail prgram > to no avial. i > restarted the oc to no avail. eventually i just > delted all my mail. > > I have never experienced anythign like this before. > > what did I do Catherine? your power scares me. ;-) What did *I* do? This doesn't make sense to me. I've got virus protection too and I update it regularly. It doesn't sound like a virus to me (what do I know?) There was some darn thing we were warned about at work that is one of those worms that replicates itself and sends itself to everyone on a person's list. All you have to do to activate it is to open the e-mail of whoever sent it to you (usually they don't realize they sent it.) I don't remember what it's called & it probably doesn't matter but I'm sure it had one of those subject lines that didn't make a lot of sense. I haven't actually received one. I wish I did have the kind of power you suggest, but alas, I'm just a regular mortal. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 19:52:13 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Song for Sharon and False Alarms Return-Path: Received: from aol.com (mow-m30.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v90.10) with ESMTP id MAILINID71-1209195030; Mon, 09 Dec 2002 19:50:30 -0500 Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 19:50:30 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com To: colin@tantra-apso.com (colin) Subject: Song for Sharon and False Alarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1D6B3EBD.0B0AEE63.0004E5E0@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In a message dated 12/9/2002 6:27:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > I wonder if even Joni falls in love with her idea of > someone instead of > the reality of someone? Hmmm... Sounds familiar.... And when I went skating after Golden Reggie, you know it was white lace I was chasing. Chasing Dreams... and later in that same song: But the ceremony of the bells and lace Still veils this reckless fool here. I could talk for days about SFS, but I think it definitely supports Colin's question. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:02:46 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Hejira pronunciation I always thought it was HEY! JURA! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of FMYFL@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 6:57 PM To: hell@ihug.co.nz; john@sprackland.demon.co.uk; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Hejira pronunciation Hell wrote: <> I'd have to go along with Hell on this one (and she does have a great NZ accent). There are other correct ways to pronounce Hejira, but this is the way I think Joni says it. I'm just glad my Mom doesn't try to pronounce it. I don't know if it's a southern thing, but she'd pronounce it Heh GEE Rer, like when she says Hawaiier and a million other things she puts a "R" at the end :) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:02:17 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Does anyone love the CLC books? Hey, thanks for pointing this out! I work in a library and I'll look in volume 12 tomorrow. Never occurred to me to search for Joni in those books. At 01:19 PM 12/9/02 -0500, you wrote: > In many libraries they have in the referance section,the "clc" books >series-contemporary literary critisism. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/02 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:07:41 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Fave/least lave Dare I say "me too?" A lot of people detest TWTLIL, but I find the melody compelling, the guitar eerie and intriguing, and Joni's singing right on target. I don't quite understand how it fit with the Mingus album, but as a song, I love it. At 09:31 PM 12/9/02 +0000, you wrote: >For the less obvious, the song >that I seem to love more than most (going by the poll list) is 'The Wolf >That Lives in Lindsay' - have to play it whenever I feel ' the stab and >glare and buckshot of the heavy, heavy snow'. And the wolves thrill me >(so much better that 'Kitty,Kitty'!) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/02 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:11:23 -0500 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: False alarms > All this talk about Amelia and Icarus has got me wondering how many > contemporary artists have written about or referred to Greek (or Roman) > mythology in a song? And Venus was her name She's got it, Yeah baby she's got it I'm your Venus, I'm your fire At your desire... Cupid pull back your bow And let your arrow flow.. Patty Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 02:12:21 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: weird njc >What did *I* do? This doesn't make sense to me. > yet another failed joke Catherine! I know yu didn't send a virus-can't get them thru the list anyway. No idea what ahppened. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 21:31:31 -0500 From: "PAUL PETERSON" Subject: Refuge of the Roads I agree. Refuge has it all: Beautiful melody, great arrangement, great poetry, and the quintessential Joni-states, loneliness, longing for love, introspection, and hope. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 21:45:04 -0500 From: "PAUL PETERSON" Subject: false alarms I always associated this refrain with what I always felt was the key confessional element of the song: "Maybe I've never really loved, I guess that is the truth". The false alarm of every sexual relationship that felt like love but wasn't. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:48:59 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: ebay Kate wrote: > when something is purchased from a nonprofit, the value of the item is not > tax deductible but the amount above that value usually is... I didn't know this and have always just taken the entire amount for a tax deduction in cases of charity auctions, etc. How does one ascertain the value of this Joni litho? Joni gave it away for free, I assume, and I wonder if then she can take some tax deduction for her own donation. Is that the reasoning behind the tax code in this case - because Joni is already taking a deduction for part of it (a value I suppose she would determine absent a formal appraisal) the buyer can only take a deduction for the balance over and above what Joni takes? Kakki, wishing Joni would donate an original painting somewhere! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:26:03 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Odd Joni news There are two illustrations of Joni in a new book out by Rolling Stone called "The Illustrated Portraits," though neither is particularly striking or even that good. Chuck's recently posted drawing puts these ones to shame. There are five portraits of Bob Dylan, by the way. Also, Meryl Streep quotes Joni in the latest issue of Good Housekeeping: "Joni Mitchell once said that happiness is the best face-lift, and I believe that." I've always felt that Meryl is Hollywood's equivalent of Joni Mitchell - prolific, wise, elegant, award-winning, brilliant. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:13:41 -0500 From: "Hattie" Subject: No longer want to be on mailing list I would like to be deleated from the joni@smoe. org my email is hattie17@bellsouth.net. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 22:38:50 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: False alarms Heavenly Hell asks: << All this talk about Amelia and Icarus has got me wondering how many contemporary artists have written about or referred to Greek (or Roman) mythology in a song? >> Well, Hell, just off the top of my head I can think of quite a few Greek references in Joni's songs: Hera and the Kingpin Let the Wind Carry Hermes The Last Time I Saw Pegasus The Crazy Cries of Prometheus Taming the Mortals Heracles Louise The Silky Veils of Artemis Don't Interupt the Cyclops The Hissing of Medusa's Hair Shades of Hades Conquering Telemachus's Dad's Battle Axe That Song about the Minotaur Zeus Must Be a Boogie Man Goodbye Winged Hat Little Greek Hope this helps! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 22:52:44 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: False alarms and mondegreens? - njc Patty wrote: << And Venus was her name She's got it, Yeah baby she's got it >> I always thought it was, "She's goddess, yeah, baby, she's goddess." I honestly don't know who's right. On the subject of mondegreens, someone told me a new Beatles one yesterday: "She's got a chicken to ride, and she's okay!" --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:02:22 -0800 (PST) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: Sunshine NJC Hi Got the following e-mail from my sister today and immediately thought of this list as a good resource. Send your ideas, etc. to me, and thanks a lot! Tyler I'm working on a project and need some help. I'm trying to think of songs, poems, quotes, anything recognizable that has the word "sun", "sunny", "sunshine", etc. in it. If you can think of any, please send them to me. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #558 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)