From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #549 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 6 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 549 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Travelogue-thumbs down ["Lori Fye" ] Re: puppy mills NJC ["kasey simpson" ] Re: Stephen Epstein Rises Above Himself Fund - NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni Beside Herself ["Kate Bennett" ] Travelogue-thumbs down ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: puppy mills NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? ["blonde in the bleachers" ] Re: confused (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: rolling thunder (NJC) [David Sadowski ] FTR RIAA gold record on eBay ["Lori Fye" ] RE: (NJC)Hammerfest 20002 ["Heather" ] give diplomacy a chance NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] the absurdity of existence- NJC ["Mark Connely" ] Re: (NJC)Hammerfest 20002 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: animal game njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: ciggies are yummy njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Reviews of Joni - In General - Travelogue specifically [ATaublib@aol.com] Dylan Fans( NJC) ["Erica L. Trudelle" ] Re: animal game njc ["Erica L. Trudelle" ] Re: the absurdity of existence- NJC [Mags N Brei ] Re: Reviews of Joni - In General - Travelogue specifically [SCJoniGuy@aol] Re: (NJC)Hammerfest 20002 [FMYFL@aol.com] Note to Smurph, and everybody at jmdl (njc worth mentioning) [BigWaltinS] Re: Usama's Beard & the Big Boobed Blonde [FredNow@aol.com] blue's clues ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: blue's clues [Jerry Notaro ] (NJC)Re: Note to Smurph, and everybody at jmdl (njc worth mentioning) [F] Re: blue's clues [Mags N Brei ] Re: blue's clues ["Bill Dollinger" ] Re: MISSING ["Christopher Treacy" ] Re: animal game njc [colin ] Re: the absurdity of existence- NJC [colin ] Re: confused (njc) [colin ] RE: blue's clues ["Kate Bennett" ] NJC The 12 days of Kitschmas [FMYFL@aol.com] My ideas on Joni's statue [Merk54@aol.com] RE: My ideas on Joni's statue ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: the absurdity of existence- NJC [Mags N Brei ] Spin Magazine ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: rolling thunder (NJC) [Fauchja@aol.com] Re: blue's clues ["hell" ] Travelogue - Wow! ["Stephen Toogood" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:34:37 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Travelogue-thumbs down Laurent wrote: > Allow me to congratulate you for your courage to express your > feelings. I also posted some negative reactions (although not as > drastic as yours) and based on the off-list mails I've received we're > not alone, except that many are afraid to go on-list for fear of > alienating JMDLers. I really like T'log, but you know, it really is okay not to like a Joni album. Joni is a bloody genius (thanks for that, Andrea), but she's not a goddess!! Dissenting opinions should always be accepted here. Lori, in the minority as a DED-head ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:36:24 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Re: puppy mills NJC Colin wrote A bitch only does when she feels like it. they are also more difficult to train and to show. they are not so interested in pleasing. This explains why I get called that so often:) KaseyGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 12:50:28 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Stephen Epstein Rises Above Himself Fund - NJC In a message dated 12/6/2002 11:31:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, Murphycopy writes: > And no, the statue will not be smoking a cigarette. But it WILL have them red shoes! And it should probably be holding a Corona :~) Bob NP: Cornelius, "Smoke" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:04:11 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni Beside Herself well as much as joni's cig is part of her 'image' i agree that leaving out the cig is best...having her play an instrument would be much more appropriate & this is why we are honoring her- for her music/lyrics...i like the idea of the young joni since the statue is in saskatoon...& really like the dulcimer idea as it would make a nice visual impression & she played it lots in her early days...debra the arc is such a lovely idea... >>My favorite picture of her is an early one playing the dulcimer - with a little girl with that wide wide open stare gazing up at her. I vote for that one - no need to design a new one. Design the seat in an arc, and leave some room on the other side for me to sit and stare too :-) Bob S. >> ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:14:22 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Travelogue-thumbs down i am one of those who posted about loving t'log & i felt many critics weren't listening carefully but i don't apply that same criticism to jmdlrs who don't like it because well, i know you all really listen! lol ... we just can't all agree about the music we like & even which of joni's music we like or dislike...so i hope i haven't fed into the feeling that makes people here afraid to say they don't like t'log...i find it so interesting at not alienating at all! i may disagree with you & want to make points as to why this is, but i won't feel alienated ever!!!! hope this helps to encourages those who may feel intimidated... laurent >>Allow me to congratulate you for your courage to express your feelings. I also posted some negative reactions (although not as drastic as yours) and based on the off-list mails I've received we're not alone, except that many are afraid to go on-list for fear of alienating JMDLers. ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:24:29 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: puppy mills NJC >>A bitch only does when she feels like it.<< guess that is why they call her a bitch...lol ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 13:16:59 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? I have Blood on the Tracks, and think it is a great album but I am not a huge fan of Bob Dylan, I could never really relate to him like I can to Joni...I also had this really apathetic friend in college who is a genius but does nothing now except take money from his parents, drink coffee and smoke ciggarettes and he lives and dies by Dylan and everytime I hear any Dylan I think of his wasted potential and he refuses to even consider Joni in the same league which pisses me off to no end... If you look at the men Joni did date....JT, David Crosby, and Graham Nash (to name a few) they were all bohemian style men as opposed to the scraggly look of Bob Dylan (although JT did have a scraggly look about him, he is pretty tall)...if I were to take a guess I would say that the reason they didn't ever go out is because Joni is just way to good for him at least that is what she would say...ha ha >From: "Adam Mulvey" >Reply-To: "Adam Mulvey" >To: >Subject: Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? >Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:09:14 -0000 > > > I was just wondering everyone's opinion about why Joni and Bob Dylan > > >never > > became romantically involved???? They were obviously knew alot of the > > >same > > people and traveled to the same places......why no court and spark??? > >Court and Spark might just have been part of the problem. There's an >interesting story in one of Dylan's biographies - (possibly Clinton Heylin's >'Behind the Shades', but I may have just made that up to make me look >better) - about an evening the two of them spent together with their >respective entourages in January 1974, the month both Court and Spark and >Planet Waves were released. Dylan's hangers-on set the Master's new LP on >the turntable; and, naturally, proceeded to praise it as a work of genius. >Unfazed, Joni then put the needle down on her own latest effort.... to >widespread indifference, most notably from Dylan himself. Of course, the >story may be apocryphal, but the more you read about Dylan, the more sense >you get of a mammoth ego that needs constant attention. For a strong-willed >woman with an ego of her own, and a talent to match, it can't have been >appealing (just look at what happened to Joan Baez - the Rolling Thunder >revue was damaging for her in a way that it wasn't for Joni, because she and >the Bobmeister had never been involved). Plus, having always been stuck >with that patronising 'female Dylan' tag, it would have done Joni's >credibility no favours; and it could have only ended in murder, as I think >she herself has said. But you get the impression that each of them still >has a wary respect for the other. > >(Even though Court and Spark is to Planet Waves what Blonde on Blonde is to >Sunshine Superman.) > >You tend to hear it said that most people who have Blue in their record >collection will have a corresponding Blood on the Tracks somewhere. Are >most Joni Mitchell fans at least vague Bob Dylan fans too? > >Adam (Hello, I'm a fresher here, don't beat me up.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:24:30 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: confused (njc) exactly, the stuff they put in regular cigs is terrible & more harmful & most addicting (& criminal), IMO lori>>At least switch, Andrea. American Spirits are said to be additive-free.<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 12:17:59 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: rolling thunder (NJC) It's a pretty good buy... two discs plus a fat booklet and (for now) a two-track DVD for something like $19.95. It's just Bob with a few duets with Joan Baez and (I think) Scarlet Rivera. Sound quality is excellent, the performances are great... this comes right at the end of Bob's very creative mid-70s period. Good stuff. Bruce Kimerer wrote: >Has anyone heard the newly released Dylan Rolling Thunder recordings? What >are they like? What's included? And are they just him, or are other >performers on the tour (like Joni) included? > >PS. Have been listening to T for 2 weeks straight in my car (and I'm in my >car a lot). Haven't even turned on the radio. Must be because I find a >richness in these new versions that makes me want to hear them again and >again. I don't think I would be doing this if it was a compilation of the >original recordings. Current favorites (these keep changing) Chinese Cafe >and Otis & Marlena. > >Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:25:21 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: FTR RIAA gold record on eBay How do people get these things??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=926483681 Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:41:55 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: (NJC)Hammerfest 20002 Simply appalling. I fear of people protesting this because I think that is just what this type of group wants so they can lash out physically. I wonder why Florida and not Idaho? Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of FMYFL@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:56 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: (NJC)Hammerfest 20002 I must be living under a rock, cause I've never heard of Hammerfest or of the Hammerskin Nation, until today. The Hammerskins are holding their concert in Florida this year. It was planned for Daytona, but do to opposition will be moved to Jacksonville (home of IVPaul, hmmmm). If you're like me and never heard of Hammerskins, they are a violent white supremacist group which use confederate flags and swastikas as their emblems. I thought the skinhead days were long gone, but apparently not. This "Hammerfest 2002" will be a concert featuring bands with names like Attack, Definite Hate, White Wash, and Intimidation One. They use lyrics that promote beating and killing nonwhites. I believe in free speech, but this is ridiculous. I can't believe such hate still exists. I just hope the city of Jacksonville can put a stop to this. Jimmy (who will only attend a Jonifest) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:50:10 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: give diplomacy a chance NJC if you'd like to contribute your name to a petition going to the UN & an ad in the NY Times (need by today) ... >We need to get the final draft of the ad to the Times by the end of the day TODAY. Let's tip it over the top. If you haven't already signed the "Let the Inspections Work" petition, please take a moment to do so right now at: http://www.moveon.org/winwithoutwar/< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:49:47 -0800 From: "Mark Connely" Subject: the absurdity of existence- NJC I'm afraid it's all so far gone that nobody's gonna get it, but I'll chime in anyway. The anti-smoking agenda is attractive and contagious. It gives anyone the potential to a sanctioned position of moral superiority, from which they may, with society's full blessing, look down on others from their perceived elevated domain. This is a very handy red herring, taking the focus off the legitimate problem of self-destruction and planetary murder we are engaged in every day. Every time we drive our cars, every time we buy petroleum-containing products from lotions to toys to tennis shoes, we contribute mightily to not only the environmental destruction of the planet which sustains our lives, but also to the direct destruction of lives through the wars and poverty that such dependencies engender. Our lifestyles support literal murder every day, 24-7. To pretend to such syrupy concern for the well-being of others is psychopathically confused. We care for no one so much as ourselves. Am I different? No. Am I better? NOT! Let's jointly bear the absurdity of our existence. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 13:55:33 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC)Hammerfest 20002 In a message dated 12/6/2002 1:41:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, chiaroscuro@snet.net writes: > I wonder why Florida and not Idaho? Maybe they've planned a sidetrip to Disney World? Can't you just see them in the "It's A Small World" ride smashing the crap out of all the various ethnic figures? All kidding aside, this kind of sh*t makes me ashamed to live in a country built on things like freedom of speech. Not what the founding fathers & mothers had in mind... Bob NP: The Allan Sisters, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:02:35 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: animal game njc dogs, because they're silly yet smart lions, because they're sexy and have fabulous faces black panthers, because they're powerful and they can kill in an instant wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:04:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: ciggies are yummy njc i stopped smoking for 8 years and i started smoking again 5 months ago. only a packet a day, so far. wallyK, puffing away and losing all his high notes. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:07:45 EST From: ATaublib@aol.com Subject: Reviews of Joni - In General - Travelogue specifically Firstly, I'm new member to this list, so if I'm not following protocol please be gentle, I will learn quickly. Secondly, and most importantly, I have found after listening to Joni's works for these past 30+ years: never judge her work before listening multiple times. Like all fine works of art, it takes time to truly appreciate, and like fine wine only gets better with age. Travelogue is another jewel in Joni's crown. While not perfect (what ever is?), the music is gorgeous and brings new shades and textures to old gems. While difficult to hear such songs as "For the Roses" in any other way then the original, after listening to the Travelogue version five or six times, I'm getting more and more out of it. Finally, I don't think there is anything Joni could do that I would not wind up loving -- even if it takes a little time. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 14:07:58 -0500 From: "Erica L. Trudelle" Subject: Dylan Fans( NJC) Are most Joni Mitchell fans at least vague Bob Dylan fans too? Adam (Hello, I'm a fresher here, don't beat me up.) My guess is it's less likely for Dylan die hards to own a couple Joni albums than it is for Joni die hards to own some Dylan albums..... Aren't we more open minded?? just kidding, seriously, the die hard Dylan fans that I have met seem to be under some cooky spell, I've tried to talk Neil Young or Joni with some of them but it just doesn't sink in.....if you play "idiot wind" backwards I think it messes you up something good :) But then again who knows what happens if you do that with "Paprika Plains" :) Welcome to the list, good to have you here! Erica _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 14:22:54 -0500 From: "Erica L. Trudelle" Subject: Re: animal game njc Black panther- ultimate female symbol to me, mysterious, beautiful, dangerous if you cross her the wrong way. sloth: they are a total mystery too me, the way they look, the way they move, it just seems to be a miracle that these animals ever evolved and have survived! snakes: They seem to be on a totally different plain than humans, they have their own agenda. The ancient statue of the Snake Goddess is one of my favorites. is to ask an uninitiate to name a favorite animal, then why. a 2nd favorite, then why. a 3rd, and why. answer these briefly and I'll tell you the interpretation. TR Tom Ross Mijazi Music (518) 372-2611 http://www.tom.rossweb.com _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:32:34 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: the absurdity of existence- NJC Mark Connely wrote: <<<. We care for no one so much as ourselves.>> while i respect your right to voice your feelings/opinions/thoughts, I feel the need to disagree with this statement. It is in my most humble opionion that it *is* possible. Personally speaking of course, I know this to be true, for me. I *do* care very much for others as much as, and in some cases, more than I do for myself. No question. Mags. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 14:33:40 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Reviews of Joni - In General - Travelogue specifically In a message dated 12/6/2002 2:07:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, ATaublib writes: > Firstly, I'm new member to this list, so if I'm not > following protocol please > be gentle, I will learn quickly. Welcome to the Jonilist! Feel free to use your name if you wish, we're all friendly folks and it helps to match at least a name with an address. The only real "protocol" is to make sure to put NJC in your subject line if your post has no Joni content. Of course, in THIS case, it was ALL Joni content! :~) I agree with you about playing any CD more than once before passing judgement, but by the same token I've fallen in love with a record on first listen, and also known the first time around that I didn't care for a record no matter how many spins I'd give it. Ironically, I liked T'log more the first time I heard it than I did when I played it over & over. Not sure why that is, maybe the newness/freshness factor peeled away to reveal more of the unrealized potential of the project for me. Whenever I hear "Flat Tires", I want to hear something else that good and I just don't, and it only eats at me more with each listen. But I'm holding out hope that someday I can grow to better enjoy it. Bob NP: Mimi Fox, "Joni Mitchell Medley" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:34:39 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC)Hammerfest 20002 In a message dated 12/6/2002 1:55:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy writes: > Maybe they've planned a sidetrip to Disney World? > > Can't you just see them in the "It's A Small World" ride smashing the crap > out of all the various ethnic figures? > Hey Bob, you might have something there. Let them in "It's A Small World", lock the doors, and force them to hear that horrible song for 48 hours until their ears fall off !!! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:34:45 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Note to Smurph, and everybody at jmdl (njc worth mentioning) Hey, Smurph, First of all, before i forget, I have a pop lit Joni reference for you. It originally appeared in satirewire.dom, which parodied business magazines during the rise and fall of dotcoms. The fictional magazine was called "BusinessMonth Weekly"; the best of it is now in book form, called "Economy of Errors". In the December 1997 issue, there's a picture of Alan Greenspan with his typical dull, vacant, glum gaze. At the top of the picture, the cation is "What's on Alan Greenspan's mind?" Among his thoughts are: (1) Boy, if they knew I tie interest rates to my cholesterol level... (2) Does "fundamentally antidisinflationary" mean anything? Think not. Must use in next speech... (3) What I could make on Wall Street: $250 million. What I make at Fed: $141,300. Stupid, stupid, stupid. and (drum roll, please) (4) First wife: Joan Mitchell Now wife: Andrea Mitchell Next wife: Joni Mitchell? (btw, he really was married to someone named Joan Mitchell, and he is currently married to Andrea Mitchell, a senior correspondent on NBC.) Hope you're okay, Bob. I'm having a rough spot, and haven't been able to get on the computer for weeks -- too weak to sit up for long, and too shaky to type. As you probably know, sweet Ashara called me from Stephen's in Vancouver on TG Day to make sure i was okay -- she said she'd tell everybody on the list as much. Turns out part, or most, of the reason I was so tired and slightly zomboid at the fest was that I was vastly poisoned with lactic acid -- a side effect of at least one of the antivirals I was on. I've been off the drugs for two months now, and *I'm still fecking toxic, and they don't know why*. Of course, having gone off all my antivirals, I now have a viral load the size of Rhode Island (>500,000, if anyone's curious), and am feverish half the time. And the *really* good news is that they want to investigate the possibility that I may have a new lymphoma! Just in time for Christmas, which is also when i got diagnosed 7 years ago! Ho ho ho! At the moment I'm more pissed than terrified. At least, if (God forbid) it turns out to be the case, I'll know what to expect. Anyway, yesterday I had another test to see if the lactic acidosis is going away, I see the doctor on Monday, and then (yay!!) more tests. Oh, I was alerted to the release date of Travelogue by a local jmdl lurker who lives near me, and I forced myself up, into the shower, and all the way to Virgin Records to get it -- my longest trip on my own in weeks. I was shaking by the time i got home, but BOY WAS IT WORTH IT!!!!! I wept through the whole thing on the first listen. (Robert sort of shook his head: "Why are you *crying*??") Laughing and crying, it's the same release, or so i hear. Joni lets me cry, at the moment. Most of the time I put up a good, cheerful front. I'm sure the list has been crawling with opinions and reviews, and when I next have the energy, I'll see what everybody else thinks, and add my own 20000 cents then. Okay, a few comments now: I can live without Circle Game - -- nice version, but just not her best song; ditto for Borderline (coincidentally, the last two songs on the second disk); I would've picked something else from her first album rather than Dawntreader, maybe Nathan La Franeer or Pirates of Penance; what, *nothing* from HoSL?????; and oh, I'm sure someone else must have already brought up the predominance of "lasties" on Travelogue. I've frequently liked the last songs on so many Joni albums - -- sometimes it caps the album, sometimes it's a contrast -- but almost always good -- so I'm happy. And, of course, I'm working on the song list for Joni's 5- or 6-disk release in '04 or '05, unless she actually does a Christmas album or a disk of new self-penned songs in the meantime, in which case "Gallery" (the name of the 6-disk set) can wait a little longer. Hugs to you, Bob, and to all my buds on the list. love, walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:36:15 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Usama's Beard & the Big Boobed Blonde Eric W Taylor writes: >Laurel flipped over the packaging, particularly the paintings of 9/11, >George W vs the evil witch Really? You think that's an evil witch? I thought she was a member of the downtrodden masses giving Bush the evil eye. Or she might represent Death watching over her henchman Bush. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:49:48 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: blue's clues out of the blue, this thought appeared while looking at an old photo of joni & james (joni is soooo happy & smiling in the photo).. something about the sadness of the song blue has always made me assume that it was about james taylor... because of the drug references & his addictions & the sea references (james is a pisces) & i've always imagined james was capable of causing incredible (though unintentional) heartache...his looks, his talents, his addictions- unable in his youth to really love & yet so easy to fall in love with... blue has all of that kind of deep, sad longing love in it... one of his most famous lines is 'deep greens & blues are the colors i choose' which may have caused joni to call him 'blue' singing, 'hey blue here is a song for you' maybe this has already been discussed but for me this was a new blues clue! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 14:44:19 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: blue's clues I have always felt this way, also. But I have been corrected on the list to say that FTR was the album Joni wrote about her relationship with James. No matter. I always picture him in Blue. Maybe we are both just "hopeless romantics" Kate. Kate Bennett wrote: > out of the blue, this thought appeared while looking at an old photo of joni > & james (joni is soooo happy & smiling in the photo).. > > something about the sadness of the song blue has always made me assume that > it was about james taylor... because of the drug references & his addictions > & the sea references (james is a pisces) & i've always imagined james was > capable of causing incredible (though unintentional) heartache...his looks, > his talents, his addictions- unable in his youth to really love & yet so > easy to fall in love with... > > blue has all of that kind of deep, sad longing love in it... > > one of his most famous lines is 'deep greens & blues are the colors i > choose' which may have caused joni to call him 'blue' singing, 'hey blue > here is a song for you' > > maybe this has already been discussed but for me this was a new blues clue! > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com > Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs > Over the Moon- > "bringing the melancholy world of twilight > to life almost like magic" All Music Guide > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:48:51 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: (NJC)Re: Note to Smurph, and everybody at jmdl (njc worth mentioning) Walt wrote: > Turns out part, or most, of the reason I was so tired and slightly zomboid > at > the fest was that I was vastly poisoned with lactic acid Well you could have fooled me Walt. I thought you did real well at Jonifest2002. You were always making me laugh, you did a fantastic job with your performance, and you put up with a roomie (Murphy) who woke you up at all hours. I'll be sending lots of good vibes your way Walt. You have a heart of gold, and we look forward to seeing you at Jonifest2003. Thanks so much for checking in with the JMDL. lots of love, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:55:04 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: blue's clues count me in....i always thought sweet baby james was her boy o' blue. mags...also a hopeless romantic. :-) Jerry Notaro wrote:I have always felt this way, also. But I have been corrected on the list to say that FTR was the album Joni wrote about her relationship with James. No matter. I always picture him in Blue. Maybe we are both just "hopeless romantics" Kate. Kate Bennett wrote: > out of the blue, this thought appeared while looking at an old photo of joni > & james (joni is soooo happy & smiling in the photo).. > > something about the sadness of the song blue has always made me assume that > it was about james taylor... because of the drug references & his addictions > & the sea references (james is a pisces) & i've always imagined james was > capable of causing incredible (though unintentional) heartache...his looks, > his talents, his addictions- unable in his youth to really love & yet so > easy to fall in love with... > > blue has all of that kind of deep, sad longing love in it... > > one of his most famous lines is 'deep greens & blues are the colors i > choose' which may have caused joni to call him 'blue' singing, 'hey blue > here is a song for you' > > maybe this has already been discussed but for me this was a new blues clue! > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com > Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs > Over the Moon- > "bringing the melancholy world of twilight > to life almost like magic" All Music Guide > ******************************************** You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:00:14 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: blue's clues I always figured it to be David Blue. Bill - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mags N Brei" To: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Kate Bennett" Cc: "Joni@Smoe. Org" Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 2:55 PM Subject: Re: blue's clues count me in....i always thought sweet baby james was her boy o' blue. mags...also a hopeless romantic. :-) Jerry Notaro wrote:I have always felt this way, also. But I have been corrected on the list to say that FTR was the album Joni wrote about her relationship with James. No matter. I always picture him in Blue. Maybe we are both just "hopeless romantics" Kate. Kate Bennett wrote: > out of the blue, this thought appeared while looking at an old photo of joni > & james (joni is soooo happy & smiling in the photo).. > > something about the sadness of the song blue has always made me assume that > it was about james taylor... because of the drug references & his addictions > & the sea references (james is a pisces) & i've always imagined james was > capable of causing incredible (though unintentional) heartache...his looks, > his talents, his addictions- unable in his youth to really love & yet so > easy to fall in love with... > > blue has all of that kind of deep, sad longing love in it... > > one of his most famous lines is 'deep greens & blues are the colors i > choose' which may have caused joni to call him 'blue' singing, 'hey blue > here is a song for you' > > maybe this has already been discussed but for me this was a new blues clue! > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com > Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs > Over the Moon- > "bringing the melancholy world of twilight > to life almost like magic" All Music Guide > ******************************************** You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:14:37 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Re: MISSING It's a great list, and I wish this was more along the lines of what we got in the end. At the time, Joni said the choices were sort of 'on the fly' and a reflection of how she had been feeling on that particular day. As you can imagine, Joni had some issues with the whole 'Hits & Misses' concept, as she was expected to put together SOME sort of collection in order to appease the reocord company, which is not her forte. - -Chris - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:29 AM Subject: MISSING > The selection of songs on T'LOG ( a > fine representation of La J's work over > the years) got me thinking about > MISSES again. Anyone other than me think > the choices are odd? According to Joni > herself, this was meant to be a > collection of songs that could've/should've > been HITS. > > We're talking pre-TTT and BSN here. > > Here are my own personal choices. It drives > me crazy that none of them were hits. > > A Case of You > Car on a Hill > In France... > Edith... > Coyote > Cotton Avenue > Jericho > The Dry Cleaner... > Wild Things... > Impossible Dreamer > Lucky Girl > My Secret Place > Night Ride Home > Cherokee Louise > Nothing Can be Done > Sex Kills > > What do you good folks think > of this list? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 20:21:51 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: animal game njc > snakes: They seem to be on a totally different plain than humans, they > have their own agenda. The ancient statue of the Snake Goddess is one > of my favorites. > > > > > i cannot abide them not even pictures of them. if i see one on tv my feet come off the ground. vile horrid things. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 20:27:10 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: the absurdity of existence- NJC > and in some cases, more than I do for myself. No question. > iif you don't care for yourself first, you aren't much use to others. there are cases where a person will lay down their life for another. genrally tho, our survival instinct is very strong. It is good to care for others, where would we be without people who do, but it is never a good idea to care more about them than oneself. not healthy and destructive to all concerned. (an juts my thoughts not a criticism of you mags) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 20:28:47 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: confused (njc) i roll my own from loose tobacco. don't know what it has added. 50gms in about 10 days. Kate Bennett wrote: >exactly, the stuff they put in regular cigs is terrible & more harmful & >most addicting (& criminal), IMO > >lori>>At least switch, Andrea. American Spirits are said to be >additive-free.<< > >******************************************** >Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com >Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs >Over the Moon- >"bringing the melancholy world of twilight >to life almost like magic" All Music Guide >******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:49:53 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: blue's clues i know this is futile, but i just can't help myself...lol... i agree FTR has james all over it but that doesn't exclude blue from being about him too, ...blue is a song about being IN a relationship as opposed to being written in the wake of one (like FTR)... i bet she wrote blue during her recording of blue or just before ..we know she was incredibly emotionally fragile at this time which i can imagine her relationship with james played a part in... i don't know anything about david blue or his relationship with joni but it sure doesn't seem to be joni's style to be so obvious...(she wrote her song to graham using his nickname willy, i see blue as her sad nickname for james...whoever it is for, its a deeply hurting in the middle or heading towards the end of a relationship love song.... jerry >>I have always felt this way, also. But I have been corrected on the list to say that FTR was the album Joni wrote about her relationship with James.<< bill >>I always figured it to be David Blue.<< mags >>....i always thought sweet baby james was her boy o' blue<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:01:48 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: NJC The 12 days of Kitschmas Jan Gyn hasn't sent us anything in awhile, so here: http://shipoffools.com/Gadgets/Kitschmas02/index.html This is not intended to offend anyone who is extremely religious, so don't look. Rev. Vince, you might be recieving some of these as gifts :~) I do like the black bear nativity scene. Jimmy (I'm ready for the weekend) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 16:06:18 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: My ideas on Joni's statue In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:54:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, walterphil@excite.com writes: > they should somehow do a collage sculpture of some sort, illustrating her songs. or just make a plaque with the lyrics of "song for sharon" or "hejira," citing them as the best > lyrics ever written, and leave it at that. Walt, I was thinking along the same lines. I don't know how practical glass would be, but I thought about having a large glass screen, maybe with a bronze in front of it. Etched on the glass would be the lyrics to Hejira, or some other song of choice. They could ask Joni what song to use, conduct a fan poll, or allow people making donations to vote on their choice of songs. If it was practical, you could even have several lyric panels, erected in a circle, kind of a Joni Stonehenge, with lyrics from some of her various eras. In addition to the lyrics, the panels could have artistic etchings, encorporating Joni themes (possibly even a hint or two of smoke to appease the smoking crowd). In the center of this could be a bronze of Joni, or preferrably a bronze collage of Joni related items - paint brushs, dobro, a guitar, an ash tray, an Eagle and a Serpent,a pair of Forceps and a Stone, a beret, etc. The collage bronze could then be set in the center of a circular bench, where you could sit, and view the various panels. If glass isn't practical, than the panels could be made of stone, or metal - hey this way, you could even put lyrics on both sides of the panels. Anyway, this was just what came to my mind when I thought of a Joni tribute. I prefer the collage idea because the likeness would be hard to capture, and then we would all be bitching that it doesn't look like her, plus then there's the whole issue of what era Joni do you portray, etc. Just my two cents worth. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:09:20 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: My ideas on Joni's statue Too bad sculptor George Segal is no longer alive. I'm sure he would have loved to tackle this project. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:14:28 -0600 From: Subject: smokin > "Lori Fye" >wasn't there > an interview in which Joni mentioned that an Indian or shaman told her > that her smoking keeps her "grounded" or keeps her "from > disappearing"? (Does anyone else remember this?) This makes sense to me. I was taught something similar by my own spiritual teacher, only she said it's a reason many very spiritual people eat meat (when you'd think they would be the ones with the most compassion for living creatures). It lowers the vibration of energy in your body so that you literally stay more grounded, less "out there." When we did a course in psychic/spiritual development, there was a live-in weekend when we ate only vegetarian fare. That was specifically so we could more easily perceive spirit, spirit beings (guides, etc.) whose "bodies" vibrate so fast that they are not consciously perceived by most of us, whose bodies are vibrating more slowly... which makes us solid, as we are. If indeed we are squelching some of our personal power by eating meat or smoking or drinking, one can only imagine what genius our Joan is repressing/ dampering down (woodstove heaven in my house) in order to stay "in her body." I know this will sound like gobbledygook to some, while to others it is simple and understood. To me, it makes perfect sense. > For some reason, I think Joni would be offended if her statue did not > include a cigarette. Maybe I'm wrong, but she does want it to be a > true likeness, and I think that means "warts" and all. What if Joni gives up smoking one day? I would not be surprised if there is a part of her that wishes she could, regardless of any belligerence she expresses at the idea of being preached at, or if one day she simply said "I've smoked enough, I'm done with it." People do. Would she then be glad to see her statue immortalizing her as a smoker? Maybe she'd prefer the focus be on the soul-stirring music she has created, which will be sung for centuries after she's gone. That is what she is famous, admired, and loved for in the first place, outside of her personal relationships. Not her smoking, not her voice, not her beauty, not her brilliant conversation. Her music. It's true a statue of Jimi Hendrix probably would show him with a guitar, not a needle stuck in his arm to remind future generations of his addiction. Kate du Nord ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:20:08 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: the absurdity of existence- NJC not taken as a criticism Colin..i know where you are coming from. As soon as I hit send, I knew this might be interpreted as such. Im not able to articulate what I mean...I meant I do care as much for others...not that I dont care for myself :-) hugs and love, Mags colin wrote:> > > and in some cases, more than I do for myself. No question. > iif you don't care for yourself first, you aren't much use to others. there are cases where a person will lay down their life for another. genrally tho, our survival instinct is very strong. It is good to care for others, where would we be without people who do, but it is never a good idea to care more about them than oneself. not healthy and destructive to all concerned. (an juts my thoughts not a criticism of you mags) You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:22:43 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Spin Magazine From their Albums of the Year list: #15 Tori Amos - Scarlett's Walk. Not since Joni Mitchell drew a map of Canada on a cocktail napkin has a singer/songwriter found this much poetry in geography. Eagle Eye Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:26:13 EST From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: rolling thunder (NJC) I've heard the Rolling Thunder CD and, while Joni is not sonically represented, there is a wonderful photo of one of the concerts and there she is in all her joni-ness next to McGuinn. Fauchja NP: Brainwashed by Jairaj Harisein ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:29:29 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: blue's clues Kate wrote: > i agree FTR has james all over it but that doesn't exclude blue from being > about him too, ...blue is a song about being IN a relationship as opposed to > being written in the wake of one (like FTR)... i bet she wrote blue during > her recording of blue or just before ..we know she was incredibly > emotionally fragile at this time which i can imagine her relationship with > james played a part in... > > i don't know anything about david blue or his relationship with joni but it > sure doesn't seem to be joni's style to be so obvious...(she wrote her song > to graham using his nickname willy, i see blue as her sad nickname for > james...whoever it is for, its a deeply hurting in the middle or heading > towards the end of a relationship love song.... I agree Kate - I've always thought Blue was about James too, despite the "facts" that FTR is the JT album, and that this song is really about David Blue. JT was a heavy drug user in those days (and for a long time afterwards) which I'm sure Joni found hard to deal with. I'd quote from his biography, but I've lent it to someone in Milwaukee ;o) - which is only fair, since she gave it to me in the first place! And there's the song he wrote which (to me) corroborates this theory: from Love Has Brought Me Around: When my sky was full of gray And my day was full of blue There was nothing I could do To see myself through Now my head is full of springtime And my heart is full of you Good-bye lonely blue It shall all come true Miss November I detect a frown Close your eyes and turn it upside down Remembering that Joni was born in November.... Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 21:11:03 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Travelogue - Wow! Okay I've had Travelougue for over a week now so I thought I'd give a little review! On first listening I wasn't quite sure what to think but I knew it wasn't bad which surprised me because I was really expecting the worst after BSN which I still don't like (not her best moment). Her voice seems to have improved which was a shock because like Azeem I was expecting some kind of croak. So I think BSN is good in the way which it has prepared her for this album.She may have lost some high notes and some power but she still has so much style. This really does improve with more listens. When I first heard THOSL I dismissed it as a contrived failure. It is now probably my favourate album of all time and it took about 6 months to realise Hejira isn't rubbish at all but pure genious. Okay so Trav isn't new material but Joni can do this because her music doesn't date like most peoples. There is not a bad track here and I even prefer some of these versions than the originals (please don't shoot me)! Her delivery on 'The Dawntreader' is amazing and I never even used to like 'God Must Be A Boogie Man' but the real surprises are the songs from WTRF (still I do prefer the original of 'Chinese Cafe'). They always sounded dated to me but here they have been brought to life. I think this is how Joni itended them to be. 'You Dream Flat Tires' is sexy, 'Love' seems to hold greater meaning and Herbie's piano playing (I'm sure it's him) on 'Be Cool' is superb. Her more 'hushed' version of ' Woodstock' is really growing on me and the more I listen to 'For The Roses' the more I can here the melody coming through and the ending really is worth waiting for. The music really is used to express words which sounds odd at parts but I think it will sound more at ease with more listens. The tapping of nails sound really goes well on 'For The Roses'. Oh and lets not forget her art-work. Those paintings really send out thoughts. The real dissapointment apart from no new material is the fact she doesn't play an intrument on the album. On a whole though I think this could be one of her best recordings. Best listened to in the evening with the lights down low. Joni you've done it again. Steve N.P: 'Amelia' (Trav vers) - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 12:11 AM Subject: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid > Oh dear! I was kind of dreading this. I finally bought it today and am > playing disc one as I type this. Her voice isn't in as bad shape as I'd > feared (then again I'd imagined a deathly croak, perhaps as an insurance > policy, knowing that it couldn't be quite that shot) - but I still find it > painful to listen to. Joni's voice sounds parched and exhausted, and I'm not > hearing this marvellously expressive instrument that others have been > hearing. It's like watching an old and frail person staggering along a > cliff, I'm almost holding my breath. And her variations on the melodies > remind me of Bowie's David Live album, where he sounded as if he was just > doodling around, singing any note that fit except the note used in the > original recording - but not, to my ears, in such a way as to add anything to > my understanding or experience of the songs. > > And the arrangements? Sorry dear friends, but I can't stand them! Slouching > Towards Bethlehem is playing now, and I find the arrangement pompous and > over-emphatic, almost too literal in places. Mr Mendoza is a master of > over-egging the pudding, something I'd clocked with BSN, but there things > were relatively restrained (I now realise!). He's really excelled himself > here, laying it all on with a trowel, filling all the gaps, everything > sounding too busy. Oh lordy, after this I will get out Don Juan's Reckless > Daughter and marvel at the exquisite orchestration on Paprika Plains... > > [Sire of Sorrow - never liked this anyway; arrangement not bad - until the > chorus - yuck!] > > I also have a problem with the collision of voice and arrangements: the > frailty of the former juxtaposed with the bombast of the latter results in > sheer bathos. I can only add my voice to those who have yearned for a > stripped-down Joni offering. I acknowledge that this is only a first > listening and all that (I wouldn't bet against it being my last either), but > my overwhelming sense is that this album will come to be seen as a folie de > grandeur of epic proportions. > > [For The Roses is excruciating - oh Joni!] > > If I could wave a Joni-only magic wand and make three wishes for the next > album, they would be: > > 1. Thank Mr Mendoza for his undoubted hard work, care and attention and > send him on his way, replacing him with a VERY small band. (And ask him if > he'd like to take the VG8 with him :-) > > 2. Get some help with those poor, ravaged vocal chords of yours - whether > or not that means (whisper it) g*ving *p sm*king. As someone on the list > very sensibly said, any singer, good or bad, old or young, trained or > untrained, can benefit from a singing coach. I would be so delighted to hear > evidence of the decline in her voice being arrested, perhaps even some > clawing back of ground lost in terms of power and flexibility. > > 3. Write some songs! > > Azeem in London, dismayed to find that my main reaction at the end of disc > one was relief that it was over. > > PS I just discovered, when I tried to send this without properly filling in > the addressee bit, that there doesn't appear to be anyone on AOL with the > username joni@aol.com - what are you waiting for?? ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #549 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)