From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #548 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 6 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 548 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid [Eric W Taylor ] Re: J. Armatrading/Barry White NJC [Susan Guzzi ] Re: J. Armatrading/Barry White NJC [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Joni's statue and smoking [colin ] Re: NJC coon dog [colin ] Re: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid [colin ] Travelogue - no mention of smoking or statues ["Mickey Morose" ] Re: NJC coon dog [colin ] confused [Aerchak@aol.com] so long Tommy(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Joni Beside Herself [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #376 [StDoherty@aol.com] Re: Joni's statue and smoking NJC [AsharaJM@aol.com] RE: Joni's statue and smoking NJC [LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk] fave animals NJC [Yael Harlap ] Re: Joni Beside Herself [Bobsart48@aol.com] Travelogue-thumbs down ["Laurent Olszer" ] RE: fave animals NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] puppy mills NJC ["kasey simpson" ] RE: Travelogue-thumbs down ["Chris Marshall" ] RE: Travelogue-thumbs down [LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk] Re: Joni's statue and smoking ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Joni's statue and smoking ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: LAST CHANCE LOST njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: hi everybody!!!(with dr. nicks inflections {from the simpsons}) [SCJo] RE: joni's smoking ["Heather" ] Joni's Bronze in Saskatoon Project, 100% JC I suppose..... ["Jim L'Homme] joni's statue [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: puppy mills NJC [colin ] RE: joni's statue ["Heather" ] Re: confused ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: fave animals NJC [colin ] Re: the JMDL community njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: confused njc [colin ] RE: Judy/"Both Sides Now" ... 2002 model now njc ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: confused (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] JM's Beside Herself statue - please note email address [Sarah Gibb ] Re: faggots and now njc is that? [Sarah Gibb ] Re: joni's smoking ["Lori Fye" ] rolling thunder (NJC) [Bruce Kimerer ] re:Edgar Allen Poe ["mia ortlieb" ] RE: Edgar Allen Poe ["Jerry Notaro" ] MISSING [] Stephen Epstein Rises Above Himself Fund - NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Variety ["Jerry Notaro" ] THE "H" WORD [] THE MAGDALENE SISTERS ["Jerry Notaro" ] (NJC)Hammerfest 20002 [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: THE "H" WORD [FMYFL@aol.com] Fw: NJC coon dog ["kasey simpson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 03:11:08 -0500 From: Eric W Taylor Subject: Re: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: << Oh dear! I was kind of dreading this. I finally bought it today and am playing disc one as I type this. Her voice isn't in as bad shape as I'd feared (then again I'd imagined a deathly croak, perhaps as an insurance policy, knowing that it couldn't be quite that shot) - but I still find it painful to listen to. Joni's voice sounds parched and exhausted, and I'm not hearing this marvellously expressive instrument that others have been hearing. It's like watching an old and frail person staggering along a cliff, I'm almost holding my breath. >> I always love it when a critical reviewer pans an album admittedly before listening to the first half of it. Congratulations Azeem! I hereby present you with the short-attention span award for reviewer bias. ET PS Perhaps your 'pain' stems from a deep fear of getting older? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:18:30 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: J. Armatrading/Barry White NJC Dear Will, I believe you. Everything is very cool. And I think we have come to an understanding. Thank you & much Love and Peace to you. Let's start again. And apologies to all those who found me a bit high strung about this or took offense to Will - all is forgotten and we will go forward. Peace, Susan And what's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding? - --- William Chavez wrote: > > Hopefully you will accept a "sorry" from me. Bottom line- I wrote something > you found offensive. I'm sorry and hopefully you will believe that it was > NOT intentional. > Peace, > Will Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 01:18:30 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: J. Armatrading/Barry White NJC Dear Will, I believe you. Everything is very cool. And I think we have come to an understanding. Thank you & much Love and Peace to you. Let's start again. And apologies to all those who found me a bit high strung about this or took offense to Will - all is forgotten and we will go forward. Peace, Susan And what's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding? - --- William Chavez wrote: > > Hopefully you will accept a "sorry" from me. Bottom line- I wrote something > you found offensive. I'm sorry and hopefully you will believe that it was > NOT intentional. > Peace, > Will Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:27:39 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni's statue and smoking > No offence intended to you personally. > > Best, > > Sarah > > and none taken bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:41:32 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC coon dog Catherine McKay wrote: > --- colin wrote: > >I realised > > >>this when the Maine Coon Cat became popular here. >>(still cannot >>undertsand why people would pay a lot of money for a >>pedigree cat that >>looks like a moggy) >> >> > >Pedigree/schmedigree. They are glorified moggies. Most >of the so-called pedigree cats or "breeds" of cat are >just accidents that became trendy for some sick reason >and people make a fortune off them. > wow! that is not true. whilst some breeds of cat are 'man made', many are not. Abbysinians, Angoras,Turkish Van, Siamese, Burmese and more were not man made. Even the Persian was not man made although it has been altered by selective breeding. I agree with you about the Munchkin and other breeds of cat that are based on a deformity.Hairless cats-like the Sphynx, are a mutaion however, those I know, are not handicapped by. they feel wonderful to touch and are gregarious active cats. There are also breeds of dog that are 'unantural' and some of them should not exist, imo. However, to say 'most' of either dog or cat breeds are accidents and 'sick' is not fair nor true. The only people who make money from dog or cat breeding are the puppy or kitten mills who don't care for their stock well and sell to anyone with the money. The govt and the registering bodies and the genral public support these horrendous busineses the first two by their facilties and the latter by buying form them. As a foremr Persian breeder and 30 Lhasa Apso breeder, can assure you that 1. i spend far more money on my dogs than I ever get back form puppy sales, 2. I won't sell to just anybody, no matter who you are(i refuse a puppy to a friend all the time-not a suitable home)3. and most importnat, i nebver breed from a nervous or bad tempered dog nor one with any abnormality. The majority of people who breed and show have this attitude. Unfortunately, as with most things, their are a few bad apples in the barrell and they are theones known about and as a result we all get tarred with the same brush! an aside: Martha nd Dayna sleep in the bed with me at night.Martha has taken to barking at me and running to the foot of the stairs when she thinks it is time for me to go to bed-at about 11.30!!! Cheeky miss! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:57:35 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid > I always love it when a critical reviewer pans an album >admittedly before listening to the first half of it. > Congratulations Azeem! I hereby present you with the >short-attention span award for reviewer bias. > ET > PS Perhaps your 'pain' stems from a deep fear of getting older? > > it pisses me off to see people being slammed for having a different opinion. Not everyone is going to like Traveloague or everything Joni has done. h=Get over it. there is no excuse for this sort of petty and nasty response. I remember well that you left the list in a huff when BSN came out because some people wrote negatively about it. I note you have of grown out of this attitude. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 11:03:54 +0000 From: "Mickey Morose" Subject: Travelogue - no mention of smoking or statues So far I've only listened to the second c.d., prompted by wanting to hear Refuge properly after loving it on my tinny computer speakers and really really loving it on the hifi. wow! IMHO this is fantastic and while to me it is still the highlight it is surrounded by great stuff on that disc - some of the best songs ever written (surely no argument there) in different interpretations that often shed fresh light and new meanings. I am disappointed by the beginning and ending of the disc - I've never particularly liked Be Cool, that's probably just me so ignore it and I can skip that one if I want and still have an hour of potentially great stuff. But then ... at the end ... Circle Game - doesn't do it for me. I know it is a lovely song and it would be sacrilege to criticise it unduly, but I've yet to hear a version of it that I can really get into. Even on Clouds, I don't like the chorus - and yes, I do know who it is but I don't care. An I doomed never to get this song, which I know to many is one of their favorites? But I love the rest, and over the weekend will be turning my attention to cd1. Can't wait. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 06:41:03 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni(njc) --- Randy Remote wrote: > Oh well...every sports stadium is named after a > corporate > sponsor these days. It could be called the American > Spirit Memorial Statue or something. Everything has a corporate sponsor these days. There's a rock in the park down the road from my house donated by the Saturn Corporation. Apparently there aren't enough rocks in the park already, so they had to bring one in. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 06:44:09 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Judy/"Both Sides Now" ... 2002 model now njc --- FredNow@aol.com wrote: > > It's safe to say that without Judy's version paving > the way, the history of > Joni Mitchell would be very different, very possibly > not as sweet. My own > entry to Joni was through Judy's beautiful > Wildflowers album, with "Both > Sides Now" and, especially, "Michael From > Mountains." Not to mention (but I > will) Judy's own equally beautiful "Since I've > Asked," plus wonderful > versions of Leonard Cohen's "Sisters Of Mercy" and > "Hey, That's No Way To Say > Good-bye" (Judy was also my entry to Cohen). In my > view, this is still one of > the essential core albums of all time. I agree. I love this album. I hadn't listened to it for quite a while but it has been playing non-stop in my car on the way to and from work for the last two weeks, singing along with it. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 06:59:43 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC coon dog I wrote (of Maine coon cats, and then cats in general): >Pedigree/schmedigree. They are glorified moggies. > Most > >of the so-called pedigree cats or "breeds" of cat > are > >just accidents that became trendy for some sick > reason > >and people make a fortune off them. --- colin wrote: > > wow! that is not true. whilst some breeds of cat are > 'man made', many > are not. Abbysinians, Angoras,Turkish Van, Siamese, > Burmese and more > were not man made. Even the Persian was not man made > although it has > been altered by selective breeding. > > I agree with you about the Munchkin and other breeds > of cat that are > based on a deformity.Hairless cats-like the Sphynx, > are a mutaion > however, those I know, are not handicapped by. they > feel wonderful to > touch and are gregarious active cats. > > There are also breeds of dog that are 'unantural' > and some of them > should not exist, imo. > > However, to say 'most' of either dog or cat breeds > are accidents and > 'sick' is not fair nor true. Colin, you're right. I was wired last night so I went off on a rant (I'm not sure if you can call it a rant, as I was being silly, rather than angry). I did put something in when I first wrote that post about Siameses and *real* breeds of cat, but I ended up taking it out when I went back and edited my post. I know there are many breeders of dogs - and cats - that take great care in looking after their animals and do all they can to ensure their good health and good breeding. I've seen this myself when I first looked into getting a dog. I realize the costs of looking after animals and I've already figured it out that the good breeders can't make much of a profit (if they make any at all.) I've seen full-bred dogs like Labs and Lhasas for sale in pet stores that cost a lot more than the respectable breeders would ever charge. I've seen mutts (lhasa poos, schnoodles and all those cute doggies with silly names, but *mutts*) selling for as much or more than purebred dogs. It makes me wonder why anyone would buy one from a pet store rather than a good breeder - most likely they're impulse buyers, which is another scary thing. I've never met a sphinx cat and I'm sure they're lovely - but they are definitely weird-looking! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 12:09:47 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC coon dog > I've seen full-bred dogs like Labs >and Lhasas for sale in pet stores that cost a lot more >than the respectable breeders would ever charge. I've >seen mutts (lhasa poos, schnoodles and all those cute >doggies with silly names, but *mutts*) selling for as >much or more than purebred dogs. It makes me wonder >why anyone would buy one from a pet store rather than >a good breeder - most likely they're impulse buyers, >which is another scary thing. > i also think it is becasue people are ignorant. I frequently get all day workers asking for puppies.i always say no. I recentyl siad no to a woamn who was about to drop her first baby! A bay and a puppy at the same time? No way! > >I've never met a sphinx cat and I'm sure they're >lovely - but they are definitely weird-looking! > they certainly are-sexy ugly! > >===== >Catherine >Toronto > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:12:58 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: confused Now I don't know whether to stop smoking or switch to American Spirits Andrea in NY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 8:5:56 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: so long Tommy(njc) After playing for the Braves for 15 years, Tom Glavine signed a deal with the NY Mets yesterday. The Braves did not make much of an effort to sign him so it's only expected that he would move on. Just a bit surreal though...the days of the power pitching trio, Maddox, Smoltz, and Glavine have come to an end. The Braves will truly have a new face next year. But then it kind of mirrors the game of baseball...you never know what's going to happen. Victor in Asheville. http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1205/1472001.html - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:12:34 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Beside Herself I think that if the purpose were to capture every aspect of Joni, then there would have to be a cigarette involved. However, that sounds like trying to do too much. She will be remembered for her songwriting, her singing, her piano, guitar and dulcimer playing, her poetry, her painting (and her painful honesty). Can we leave one of them out ? Except for us fans, she will not be remembered at all for her smoking. Of her cover art, most does not depict her smoking - with Hejira a notable exception. Still, if she is smoking, she cannot be playing or singing very easily. My favorite picture of her is an early one playing the dulcimer - with a little girl with that wide wide open stare gazing up at her. I vote for that one - no need to design a new one. Design the seat in an arc, and leave some room on the other side for me to sit and stare too :-) Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:26:33 EST From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #376 In a message dated 12/6/2002 2:02:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Then again, she also needs her dulcimer, guitars > (acoustic, electric, VG8, whatever), her piano, > preferably a grand; that'd be nice. She has cats too, > so maybe there should be cats all around her (maybe > one on her shoulder?). And then again there's her new > little doggie. She needs to have her paints and her > easel, and some paper to write down the lyrics of new > songs. What should she be wearing? Something by Issey? > (maybe he can donate something to the cause, like a > dress made out of bronze). My goodness, this is > getting kind of busy. Hmm, how about a desk to put the > paper on that she's writing the lyrics on so she > doesn't have to hold it? how about a couple of extra > hands to hold all that stuff? how about a marble > bowling ball over the month of June? Saskatoon gets > cold in winter. She's going to need a coat and a good > pair of winter boots, maybe with an extra pair of > heavy socks to keep her feet warm. Don't forget the > hat, she needs one of those. Is she still drinking > that German wine? Get her a bottle of that. And a > glass to drink it out of; we can't have Joni slugging > it back from the bottle. Aw, jeez, get her a whole > case; she's going to be there a while. (How big is > this park or wherever the statue's going to be? Is > there room for a Lexus?) > > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > > Very funny! You've nailed just some of what should be included - I say you have a mean old daddy looking over her shoulder. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:30:38 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's statue and smoking NJC Stephen, unfortunately in Vancouver, said: <> YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:38:17 -0000 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: RE: Joni's statue and smoking NJC well done, keep it up steve....it gets easier.....eventually! and don't forget to take a good vitamin B complex....chills out the nerves. les (nine months free) - -----Original Message----- From: AsharaJM@aol.com [mailto:AsharaJM@aol.com] Stephen, unfortunately in Vancouver, said: <> YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 08:26:01 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: fave animals NJC >is to ask an uninitiate to name a favorite animal, then why. >a 2nd favorite, then why. >a 3rd, and why. 1. penguins - because they are so absurd - little waddling amiable-looking creatures in tuxes 2. polar bears - because they also have an absurd-looking grin on their faces (even though they aren't all that amiable, really), and i like how they move 3. stegosaurus - because my housemate just sculpted one out of snow yesterday and it was adorable. and they look so improbable. i also like turtles :) so does this mean i like absurd and improbable but friendly-looking things? - -yael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:00:34 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Beside Herself Earlier I posted: > My favorite picture of her is an early one playing the dulcimer - with a > little girl with that wide wide open stare gazing up at her. I vote for > that one - no need to design a new one. Design the seat in an arc, and > leave some room on the other side for me to sit and stare too :-) > Further to that post, I would add 1. the photo is on page 65 of Stacy Luftig's JM Companion 2. I envision a circular pond, with the statue somewhere on the perimiter (facing southwest, perhaps ?) 3. For props, I can see Joni in a beret to protect her eyes from the sun a bit, and the little girl holding a jar with a dragonfly in it (surely some sculptor can think of a way to make that happen). 4. Title - Joni Mitchell and Little Girl in the Park (note - the photo is copyrighted Corbis/Henry Diltz if that is a minor issue) 5. Can I see the opening two lines of The Circle Game inscribed under the title ? 6. The scene has motion, too, which I like. Really, this has to be the one :-) Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:51:17 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Travelogue-thumbs down Azeem wrote: > Subject: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid > > Oh dear! I was kind of dreading this. I finally bought it today and am > playing disc one as I type this. Her voice isn't in as bad shape as I'd > feared (then again I'd imagined a deathly croak, perhaps as an insurance > policy, knowing that it couldn't be quite that shot) - but I still find it > painful to listen to. Joni's voice sounds parched and exhausted, and I'm not > hearing this marvellously expressive instrument that others have been > hearing. ........ > Azeem in London, dismayed to find that my main reaction at the end of disc > one was relief that it was over. > Hello Azeem, Allow me to congratulate you for your courage to express your feelings. I also posted some negative reactions (although not as drastic as yours) and based on the off-list mails I've received we're not alone, except that many are afraid to go on-list for fear of alienating JMDLers. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 9:2:55 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: fave animals NJC > so does this mean i like absurd and improbable but friendly-looking things? > > -yael Like ducks! Victor in Asheville - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:09:26 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: puppy mills NJC Collin, I didn't know you breed dogs. I've seen a few puppy mills, and I've reported them. I had always owned mutts, and always loved them. However, I got smitten by the West Highland White Terrier. Mine is now 15yrs. old. I have been looking for another one, but must admit there is absolutely no way to replace her. She was named after Katharine Hepburn, but my southern family turned Katharine Dianne into Katie Jo:) I look for breeders like you, selective. I know they care about the animals. I bought my parents a Westie several years ago from a breeder in Mo., and I think I'll go back to them if I get another one. My partner owed a Dalmatian, but the 14lb Westie ruled the 110lb Dalmatian. It was something to see. Sorry for the long post, but I could talk about my animals forever. I also owe two mongrel cats. If I ever became rich I'd own a farm. KaseyGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:15:04 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: Travelogue-thumbs down Egads. This is bad news indeed when people can't express a negative opinion about Joni's work without fear of reprisals. We can't all like everything, Joni's music covers too many musical styles for that. Flame me if ya like, but I dislike most of her material from the 80s. If we're all expected to unconditionally like everything, we also look, to the outside world, like a bunch of sad obsessives. That'd be Bad [tm]. So, anyway. Rolling back around to Travelogue, as I listen to it more, I start to mentally imagine it as more of a stage show than a mere record. The arrangements of some songs are very much like an opera or musical. It's curious, but not unpleasant. And I'm really getting into this version of "Slouching", which left no impression in its original form. All I want now is for her to come and play the Royal Albert Hall in London, with the LSO. That'd be nice :) - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:29:25 -0000 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: RE: Travelogue-thumbs down All I want now is for her to come and play the Royal Albert Hall in London, with the LSO. That'd be nice :) - --Chris meanwhile back on planet earth, les is warming to travelogue. i concur with azeem's impression that mr mendoza attempts too much with some arrangements thereby burying beatuful work - including his own. the wtrf cuts are particular beneficiaries of the mendoza touch as is god must be a boogie man. flame war or not, i think hejira in this form is a travesty and have said so elsewhere. but for me it's still a brilliant collection of work that will become a favourite of mine. and it's such a pleasure to listen to joni sing. she sings beautifully. les (rushing off to a meeting) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 06:30:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Joni's statue and smoking It's hard to watch someone with lung damage. My mother smoked for about 50 years and has copd. She can only get meds so often or she will "develop a resistance", which of course means she'll become temporarily be unable to breath for an hour or so and could die from any one of those episodes. After trying to get her to stop for about 20 years, there's no satisfaction in seeing that I was right. Lama - --- Sarah Gibb wrote: > When they develop the cough, they call it > "smokers' cough", > when they should be calling it lung damage. Smoking > and obesity are > two of the major causes of death in North America. > We don't think > it's cool when people eat themselves to death, and > we wouldn't think > it respectful to build a statue of Elvis Presley > holding burgers and > pies in his hands, even though eating was as much > his trademark at > the end of his life as smoking is Joni Mitchell's. > > COPD (smokers' disease - bronchitis and emphysema) > is the fourth > leading cause of death in America. In 2000, 10 > million people were > listed as having been diagnosed with COPD, 1.5 > million visited an > emergency room because of it, 726,000 were > hospitalized with it, and > 119,000 died from it. Another 14 million Americans > are believed to > suffer from COPD undiagnosed. Death rates are an > underestimate > because many death certificates will say "heart > attack" or "old age", > and won't bother to mention the lung damage that > caused the heart to > stop. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 06:30:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Joni's statue and smoking It's hard to watch someone with lung damage. My mother smoked for about 50 years and has copd. She can only get meds so often or she will "develop a resistance", which of course means she'll become temporarily be unable to breath for an hour or so and could die from any one of those episodes. After trying to get her to stop for about 20 years, there's no satisfaction in seeing that I was right. Lama - --- Sarah Gibb wrote: > When they develop the cough, they call it > "smokers' cough", > when they should be calling it lung damage. Smoking > and obesity are > two of the major causes of death in North America. > We don't think > it's cool when people eat themselves to death, and > we wouldn't think > it respectful to build a statue of Elvis Presley > holding burgers and > pies in his hands, even though eating was as much > his trademark at > the end of his life as smoking is Joni Mitchell's. > > COPD (smokers' disease - bronchitis and emphysema) > is the fourth > leading cause of death in America. In 2000, 10 > million people were > listed as having been diagnosed with COPD, 1.5 > million visited an > emergency room because of it, 726,000 were > hospitalized with it, and > 119,000 died from it. Another 14 million Americans > are believed to > suffer from COPD undiagnosed. Death rates are an > underestimate > because many death certificates will say "heart > attack" or "old age", > and won't bother to mention the lung damage that > caused the heart to > stop. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:35:38 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: LAST CHANCE LOST njc In a message dated 12/5/2002 6:25:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, mtotzke@gosympatico.ca writes: > Has this > happened to anyone else? Yes..it happens to me from time to time. I sent a post about a week ago, and it went out into orbit and never showed up. It'll probably appear in about a month, be totally out of context and people will just say "Wha...?" I guess I'll blame it on AOL, or on Joni's smoking! :~) Bob NP: Cool For August, "Don'T Wanna Be Here" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:45:13 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: hi everybody!!!(with dr. nicks inflections {from the simpsons}) In a message dated 12/5/2002 7:54:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, walterphil@excite.com writes: > have you ever heard annie lennox' studio version of > "ladies?" it is faboo. Yes indeed it is, Walt...it's one that'll appear on the tribute cd (assuming it ever sees the light of day), in the meantime I'm glad it's already out there! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:57:13 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: joni's smoking I would think that Joni would want to be remembered for her music ... not her smoking. Then again, I could be wrong. Portraying Joni playing a guitar, piano would reflect on her talents as a musician as stated below. Hmmm... I agree ... that statue would look ridiculous and tacky if it were actually smoking. Maybe it could be letting off a little steam instead to reflect her past interviews ;-) Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Aerchak@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:02 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: joni's smoking I do no think such emphasis should be placed on the whole to smoke or not to smoke thing. We all know that Joni is a hard core, dedicated smoker. And I'm sure no one is really happy about that but it simply is the way it is. However, the statue is not going to be erected because she is a great smoker but because she is a great artist. So I think the emphasis should be on that. Joni cannot smoke while she's playing guitar. At least she never did when I saw her in concert. So if the statue includes playing the guitar, problem solved. She can have a pack in her pocket, if need be. I definitely don't think the statue should actually be SMOKING. That's just hilariously absurd. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:05:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni's Bronze in Saskatoon Project, 100% JC I suppose..... And an appreciative Llama, at a respectful distance beaming with pride.... I'm building my own idea in private. Lama - --- StDoherty@aol.com wrote: she also needs her dulcimer, guitars > > (acoustic, electric, VG8, whatever), her piano, > > preferably a grand; that'd be nice. She has cats > too, > > so maybe there should be cats all around her > (maybe > > one on her shoulder?). And................. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:08:59 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: joni's statue Does anyone know if the sculptor Claes Oldenburg is still on this side of the grass? If so, he could create the perfect statue of Joni -- an enormous cigarette butt sticking out of the ground! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:08:40 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: puppy mills NJC small dogs usually do rule the roost.large dogs tend to be frightened of little dogs. greta Danes always try to get away from a Chihuahua! also in a house of males and females, the male will appear to be the Alpha but it is usually the quietest bitch. if there is more than one male, the older male is the one who thinks he is the Alpha. however, the males, at least in Apsos(but am told it is so in many breeds) are the more loving and affectionate. They will come when called. A bitch only does when she feels like it. they are also more difficult to train and to show. they are not so interested in pleasing. > My partner owed a Dalmatian, > but the 14lb Westie ruled the 110lb Dalmatian. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:13:49 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: joni's statue and the smoke coming out is in the image of joni? ;-) did you look oldenburg up on the web? best, heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Murphycopy@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 10:09 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: joni's statue Does anyone know if the sculptor Claes Oldenburg is still on this side of the grass? If so, he could create the perfect statue of Joni -- an enormous cigarette butt sticking out of the ground! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 07:13:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: confused You forgot the smiley face, right? If not, "confused" is the perfect subject line. As a non-smoker, I can lend some clarity. Try asking yourself this in front of a mirror: "Should I cut off a whole hand or maybe just one finger?" Please stop. And this goes for everyone else too: Kakki, Alison, & Claud9. "May you stayeee-eee for-evahh-young." Lama > Now I don't know whether to stop smoking or switch > to American Spirits > > Andrea in NY Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:17:57 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: fave animals NJC >> is to ask an uninitiate to name a favorite animal, then why. >> a 2nd favorite, then why. >> a 3rd, and why. > > dogs-because they have characterand are fun to live with cats-becasue they beautiful to look at and graceful even if temperamental monkeys-becasue they too are gorgeous and fun. i would have loved to have a monkey as a pet but they are better off wild. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 07:19:59 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: the JMDL community njc > not only that we have a meatball dish called 'faggots'. Birds Eye had > a huge billboeard campaign with the slogan 'take home some faggots > tonight'. We didn't know about the usa slang then but an american > friend visiting thought it was hilarious and stopped to photgraph the > billboard. That IS hilarious! Reminds me of when I lived in Galveston, Texas. My brother Billy came to visit and I took him to my favorite, not-great but passable, Mexican restaurant ("Marcos"). Billy was impressed (remember, we grew up in Ohio; people there think Taco Bell is Mexican food), and he was raving to the waiter about the food. The waiter asked if there aren't Mexican restaurants in Ohio, and my brother said, "Well yeah. 'Chi-Chi's.'" The waiter got a real funny look on his face and walked promptly into the kitchen. Seconds later we heard a bunch of people laughing loudly. Billy was bewildered, but I knew why ... "Chi-chi's" is Mexican slang for breasts. : D Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:26:29 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: confused njc >Please stop. And this goes for everyone else too: >Kakki, Alison, & Claud9. "May you stayeee-eee >for-evahh-young." > > of course. right now. will never smoke again and am sure kakki and Alison and Claud and everyone will do the same. As a non smoker, I am certain you know exactly how easy it is for us to just do as you say.(assuming we would want to of course) On a more seroious note, i understand the pain casued to people who have to watch people they love be very ill and or die. Like I said, john's sister has lung cancer and emphysema. She has never smoked. Who do we blame? there has to be someone or something at fault. Her 28 yr old son, is in remission for the 2nd time from stomach cancer. doesn't smoke. but something or someone must be to blame. after all we cannot just accept that bad things happen everyday. there must always be blame even if we end up blaming the victim, just so long as our fear is assauged for while. and if we can apportion blame, we prevent future disease, yes? Blame life and stop living. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:27:17 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: Judy/"Both Sides Now" ... 2002 model now njc Wildflowers was THE cool album of my senior year in high school. We had a record player on stage and as we built sets for our stage productions in the aud it played Wildflowers continually. There is no doubt Judy played a significant part in advancing Joni's music and career. Judy was way more popular than George Hamilton IV! Jerry --- FredNow@aol.com wrote: > > It's safe to say that without Judy's version paving > the way, the history of > Joni Mitchell would be very different, very possibly > not as sweet. My own > entry to Joni was through Judy's beautiful > Wildflowers album, with "Both > Sides Now" and, especially, "Michael From > Mountains." Not to mention (but I > will) Judy's own equally beautiful "Since I've > Asked," plus wonderful > versions of Leonard Cohen's "Sisters Of Mercy" and > "Hey, That's No Way To Say > Good-bye" (Judy was also my entry to Cohen). In my > view, this is still one of > the essential core albums of all time. I agree. I love this album. I hadn't listened to it for quite a while but it has been playing non-stop in my car on the way to and from work for the last two weeks, singing along with it. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 07:39:46 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: joni's smoking > Saskatoon gets cold in winter. You know, this has already crossed my mind. How warm does it get in summer? Will Joni be overdressed, or underdressed? And about the depiction of her age ... someone suggested young, as she was in Saskatoon. Or (Sharon), should she be depicted as middle-aged? I personally like her look on the cover of Hejira, beret and all. Although I'm also LOVING DF's sketch of JM on the bench. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 07:42:13 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: confused (njc) > Now I don't know whether to stop smoking or switch to American Spirits At least switch, Andrea. American Spirits are said to be additive-free. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:43:25 -0700 From: Sarah Gibb Subject: JM's Beside Herself statue - please note email address Could I ask anyone who has messages for the Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself committee to send emails either to the individual email addresses if you know them, or to BesideHerself@shaw.ca. Please don't send anything to the general committee email address. Many thanks. Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:47:22 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: joni's smoking how about the inside of For the Roses... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: "Catherine McKay" ; Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 10:39 AM Subject: Re: joni's smoking > Saskatoon gets cold in winter. You know, this has already crossed my mind. How warm does it get in summer? Will Joni be overdressed, or underdressed? And about the depiction of her age ... someone suggested young, as she was in Saskatoon. Or (Sharon), should she be depicted as middle-aged? I personally like her look on the cover of Hejira, beret and all. Although I'm also LOVING DF's sketch of JM on the bench. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:50:05 -0700 From: Sarah Gibb Subject: Re: faggots and now njc is that? In England, a "fag" is also a public school (what North Americans call a private school) term for a younger pupil who acts as a sort of servant for the boys in their final year. Each older boy will have a young boy who runs around after them, polishes their shoes, etc. You'll often hear older politicians say, "ah yes, young Blair. He was my fag at Eton." :-) Sarah Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 19:13:58 -0500 From: vince Subject: faggots and how njc is that? colin wrote: >>Remember also that Colin is english, and that to us english >>folk a fag *is* definitely a cigarette first, >> not only that we have a meatball dish called 'faggots'. > Faggots are also small pieces of wood you ask as kindling for a fire and when I was a kid they used to have faggot services - no shit - where you would get up and tell how you got saved and then toss your faggot into the fire. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 07:55:05 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: joni's smoking > how about the inside of For the Roses... Works for me, but can she still wear the beret? L. ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 11:58:45 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: rolling thunder (NJC) Has anyone heard the newly released Dylan Rolling Thunder recordings? What are they like? What's included? And are they just him, or are other performers on the tour (like Joni) included? PS. Have been listening to T for 2 weeks straight in my car (and I'm in my car a lot). Haven't even turned on the radio. Must be because I find a richness in these new versions that makes me want to hear them again and again. I don't think I would be doing this if it was a compilation of the original recordings. Current favorites (these keep changing) Chinese Cafe and Otis & Marlena. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:05:01 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re:Edgar Allen Poe What about the "raven" curls from Harry's House? Okay, this may be a stretch........but HOSL is such a wonderful album, filled with so many literary references. Mia NP: Joni - "Mr Blue" (from 2nd fret sessions) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:28:41 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: Edgar Allen Poe Most interpret this as Raveen, a hair straightening product used by Black women. After using the product, the hair could be rolled up into curls which was quite popular at the time. Jerry - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of mia ortlieb Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:05 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: re:Edgar Allen Poe What about the "raven" curls from Harry's House? Okay, this may be a stretch........but HOSL is such a wonderful album, filled with so many literary references. Mia NP: Joni - "Mr Blue" (from 2nd fret sessions) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:29:43 -0500 From: Subject: MISSING The selection of songs on T'LOG ( a fine representation of La J's work over the years) got me thinking about MISSES again. Anyone other than me think the choices are odd? According to Joni herself, this was meant to be a collection of songs that could've/should've been HITS. We're talking pre-TTT and BSN here. Here are my own personal choices. It drives me crazy that none of them were hits. A Case of You Car on a Hill In France... Edith... Coyote Cotton Avenue Jericho The Dry Cleaner... Wild Things... Impossible Dreamer Lucky Girl My Secret Place Night Ride Home Cherokee Louise Nothing Can be Done Sex Kills What do you good folks think of this list? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 11:31:15 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Stephen Epstein Rises Above Himself Fund - NJC Stephen writes: << smoke free for over 2 weeks after 30 years! >> I will be accepting donations for the Stephen Epstein Rises Above Himself Fund. Your donations will help us create a statue of Stephen for the Topsfield, Massachusetts village green. And no, the statue will not be smoking a cigarette. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:40:18 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Variety Huge story on Joni and Nonesuch records with a color photo of the cover of Travelogue in the December 2 issue of Variety. Eagle Eye Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:47:11 -0500 From: Subject: THE "H" WORD To all: Bob Muller cleared up the mystery -- as to why two of my posts disappeared into the ether. Both were about the song HELP ME; and I was putting HELP in the subject line, which means the messages were bounced. How d'ya like that?! Michael (in Toronto) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:53:17 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: THE MAGDALENE SISTERS THE MAGDALENE SISTERS Certificate: 15 Running time: 120 mins Starring: Geraldine McEwan, Anne-Marie Duff, Nora-Jane Noone, Dorothy Duffy, Eileen Walsh, Mary Murray Produced in the U.K. and just nominated for best film by the Eoropean Film Awards Committee. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:56:13 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: (NJC)Hammerfest 20002 I must be living under a rock, cause I've never heard of Hammerfest or of the Hammerskin Nation, until today. The Hammerskins are holding their concert in Florida this year. It was planned for Daytona, but do to opposition will be moved to Jacksonville (home of IVPaul, hmmmm). If you're like me and never heard of Hammerskins, they are a violent white supremacist group which use confederate flags and swastikas as their emblems. I thought the skinhead days were long gone, but apparently not. This "Hammerfest 2002" will be a concert featuring bands with names like Attack, Definite Hate, White Wash, and Intimidation One. They use lyrics that promote beating and killing nonwhites. I believe in free speech, but this is ridiculous. I can't believe such hate still exists. I just hope the city of Jacksonville can put a stop to this. Jimmy (who will only attend a Jonifest) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:04:42 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: THE "H" WORD Michael wrote: > Bob Muller cleared up the mystery -- as to why two of > my posts disappeared into the ether. Both were about > the song HELP ME; and I was putting HELP in the > subject line, which means the messages were > bounced. How d'ya like that?! > A message sent with any of the following words in the subject or the first five lines of the message will bounce: get help subscribe unsubscribe Hope that helps anyone else who's post don't show up. Happy Friday Everyone! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:32:20 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: NJC coon dog Lori, Thank you. This was very interesting. If you know roots to other words, or euphemisms I really would be interested. Kasey > Does anyone know why? I know how the "N" word got started > but I never got "coon". There are various "explanations" on the internet. Some examples: 1) From http://www.rsdb.net/ Probably refers to the Portuguese word for slave pens or barracks "baracoons". Could also have meaning as a shortening of "raccoon", as raccoons have a tendency to steal. 2) From http://parlorsongs.com/insearch/coonsongs/coonsongs.asp The term coon, did not originally appear as a racial slur term for a Black American, though over a short period of time it evolved into that. In early minstrel songs, the "coon" was reference to a raccoon, whose meat was supposedly preferred by plantation slaves. In many cases, for unknowing composers, the term "coon" became entangled with the 'possum, also thought to be a preferred food source. Apparently, many composers were not very familiar with American wildlife and could not tell the difference. As a result, "coon" and "possum" were often used in the same context. 3) From http://www.reporter-news.com/1998/2002/texas/nick0306.html Glenn Linden, a professor at Southern Methodist University, said the term originated in the 1800s and may have been used to compare chasing slaves to hunting raccoons. And you know ... there probably are more. (All ignorant, all offensive.) Lori ~Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #548 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)