From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #546 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 6 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 546 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid [AzeemAK@aol.com] faggots and how njc is that? [vince ] Re: the JMDL community (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] hi everybody!!!(with dr. nicks inflections {from the simpsons}) ["walterp] joni's smoking [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: joni's smoking [hell ] Re: a white-assed deer ["kakki" ] Re: Will Ashara please stand? njc [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Smokin... [vince ] Diplomatic smokers offerings of peace ["chuty001" ] Re: Diplomatic smokers offerings of peace [Susan Guzzi ] Washington Post review ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni Fest, here I come! ["Kate Bennett" ] we be in da chat room [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Diplomatic smokers offerings of peace [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Will Ashara please stand? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Will Ashara please stand? [Little Bird ] Re: Covers #35, Santa's got a brand new bag! njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #543 [Thomas Ross ] Re: NJC don't smoke the statue [Catherine McKay ] ciggies are yummy ["Mark Connely" ] Re: Washington Post review ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Judy/"Both Sides Now" [Catherine McKay ] Re: Will Ashara please stand?, njc really ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Joni Fest! ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: NJC coon dog [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni tribute in boston ["Christopher Treacy" ] re: Joni's smoking statue ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: Insensitivity vs. hypersensitivity njc njc njfreakinc [Catherine McKa] Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni's smoking [Catherine McKay ] Joni's statue ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Diplomatic smokers offerings of peace [Catherine McKay Subject: RE: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) gee, i'm a rhino! will they ever stop making fun of my dimensions! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:09:24 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's statue and smoking In a message dated 12/5/02 6:53:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, sl.m@shaw.ca writes: > But whether the statue smokes won't be up to me. That'll be up to > the artist, maybe in consultation with Joni Mitchell herself, if that > can be arranged. > > Sarah, *this* is exactly what I wanted to say, but you beat me to it. Since Joni wants to "sit beside herself"....................let's see how she wants her statue to be. Let her decide and let's get off this never ending smoking debate. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 00:11:05 +0000 From: colin Subject: re joni's staute and smoking Sarah Gibb wrote: > Victor, I agree. Another point is that we want this statue to last a > long time - for as long as bronze can last - and smoking may be viewed > in the future as equivalent to a heroin addiction. So we'd be dating > the statue if we included a cigarette, in such a way that it might be > offensive to future generations. > > I used to work as an online smoking cessation counsellor. I have no > idea how Joni Mitchell perceives her smoking. But I came to know many > smokers her age who curse themselves daily for doing it, several of > whom are on oxygen, all of whom are on medication for respiratory > disease. very sad and very unlucky people. smoking does not casue disease in all people who smoke, not even in most of them. My partner's sister is 60 and she is dying from lung cancer and emphysema. she has never smoked. One would be a fool to pretend that smoking is good for one, but there is so much scare mongering and exaggeration surrounding the smoking issue. Both sides of my faimly are very long lived-80's and 90's and most smoke. Those that have died young, an aunt from cancer, and uncle from pneumonia, another form a stroke, did not ever smoke. Of course this does not eman that the long lived ones are kept alive by smoking. it does imply that our diseases are much more controlled by genes than anything else. on tv tonight they were showing filters used to measure the air in London, the filters were covered in black soot-as are thelungs of those who live and breathe there. The air we breathe, the chemicals/poisons in our foods and water are all ignored and smoking is made the scapegoat. Howver, smoking is not a good thing to do, butit really is time people minded their own business and live and let live. the pullution angle is really crap. these same people do not rant about the car they drive or the plane they catch etc. In this modern world, people are just too plain nosey! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:11:37 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Travelogue - thumbs down I'm afraid Oh dear! I was kind of dreading this. I finally bought it today and am playing disc one as I type this. Her voice isn't in as bad shape as I'd feared (then again I'd imagined a deathly croak, perhaps as an insurance policy, knowing that it couldn't be quite that shot) - but I still find it painful to listen to. Joni's voice sounds parched and exhausted, and I'm not hearing this marvellously expressive instrument that others have been hearing. It's like watching an old and frail person staggering along a cliff, I'm almost holding my breath. And her variations on the melodies remind me of Bowie's David Live album, where he sounded as if he was just doodling around, singing any note that fit except the note used in the original recording - but not, to my ears, in such a way as to add anything to my understanding or experience of the songs. And the arrangements? Sorry dear friends, but I can't stand them! Slouching Towards Bethlehem is playing now, and I find the arrangement pompous and over-emphatic, almost too literal in places. Mr Mendoza is a master of over-egging the pudding, something I'd clocked with BSN, but there things were relatively restrained (I now realise!). He's really excelled himself here, laying it all on with a trowel, filling all the gaps, everything sounding too busy. Oh lordy, after this I will get out Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and marvel at the exquisite orchestration on Paprika Plains... [Sire of Sorrow - never liked this anyway; arrangement not bad - until the chorus - yuck!] I also have a problem with the collision of voice and arrangements: the frailty of the former juxtaposed with the bombast of the latter results in sheer bathos. I can only add my voice to those who have yearned for a stripped-down Joni offering. I acknowledge that this is only a first listening and all that (I wouldn't bet against it being my last either), but my overwhelming sense is that this album will come to be seen as a folie de grandeur of epic proportions. [For The Roses is excruciating - oh Joni!] If I could wave a Joni-only magic wand and make three wishes for the next album, they would be: 1. Thank Mr Mendoza for his undoubted hard work, care and attention and send him on his way, replacing him with a VERY small band. (And ask him if he'd like to take the VG8 with him :-) 2. Get some help with those poor, ravaged vocal chords of yours - whether or not that means (whisper it) g*ving *p sm*king. As someone on the list very sensibly said, any singer, good or bad, old or young, trained or untrained, can benefit from a singing coach. I would be so delighted to hear evidence of the decline in her voice being arrested, perhaps even some clawing back of ground lost in terms of power and flexibility. 3. Write some songs! Azeem in London, dismayed to find that my main reaction at the end of disc one was relief that it was over. PS I just discovered, when I tried to send this without properly filling in the addressee bit, that there doesn't appear to be anyone on AOL with the username joni@aol.com - what are you waiting for?? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 19:13:58 -0500 From: vince Subject: faggots and how njc is that? colin wrote: >>Remember also that Colin is english, and that to us english >>folk a fag *is* definitely a cigarette first, >> >> >> >not only that we have a meatball dish called 'faggots'. > Faggots are also small pieces of wood you ask as kindling for a fire and when I was a kid they used to have faggot services - no shit - where you would get up and tell how you got saved and then toss your faggot into the fire. Really! There was something very primal about telling a personal around a camp fire at night and throw the stick in the fire when you were done and see the sparks fly -- but we always could tell they city kids (such as me) from the rural kids because we kept laughing at the word "faggot service." Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:35:45 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: the JMDL community (NJC) Chris wrote >to us english folk a fag *is* definitely a cigarette first and to further complicate the slang differential, to bum something off someone also has a very different connotation, as confirmed by this quote from 17 Watts > Dougie Boyle, guitarist with Robert Plant's band, > was about to go on stage at Atlantic Records' 40th > anniversary concert at Madison Square Gardens. > It was his first ever experience of New York City. > During a rehearsal he became desperate for a > cigarette and employing his best Essex dialect, > innocently enquired of a local stage-hand: > "Can I bum a fag off you?" > There was a short pause while the American > crew member assessed this novel question. > He then uttered the immortal observation: > "You're new here, aren't you?" [from 17 Watts? The Birth of British Rock Guitar by Mo Foster] PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:54:17 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: hi everybody!!!(with dr. nicks inflections {from the simpsons}) boy i sure enjoy reading these lists everyday my 2 cents about a few things: became a big judy collins fan in 1968 because of the top 10 hit version of "both sides now". bought the album "wildflowers" and also loved "michael from mountains." i thought who is this joni chick? so immediately ran out and purchased "clouds," "ladies" and "song to a seagull." I thought it was interesting how different joni's version of michal was, but i liked it just as well. but the joni version of "bsn" i thought was slow and plodding. almost purposly trying to be as different from judy's as possible. i still think judys version is packed with wonder amd magic, and i belive when joni first wrote it it was supposed to be more uptempo and fluid. this was proved to me when i finally heard joni sing it a couple of times on those bbc radio shows. these versions are much nicer than the "clouds" version. i assume joni was singing them here before she had recorded the "clouds" version, tho i'm not sure. i'll leave it to you experts. but by the way, joni did originally sing it for judy on the phone you know. or so judy says. now of course joni's career moved in leaps and bounds, dwarfing judys every (in comparison) meander. but when i think of "both sides now", i'll think of judy's version. (and she did a great version of it on pbs the other night). and thanks for correcting that ridiculous "rip off" comment concerning judy's interpretations. and judy has written a few decent songs of her own, ya know. as far as the "plain" singers debate, neil young, elvis costello and bob dylan are 3 of my favorite singers. as is joan baez, john lennon and ray davies. I think the way you sing it, and the enthusiasm and joy you put into the song, are more important than the quality of the voice. you can keep celine dion. have you ever heard annie lennox' studio version of "ladies?" it is faboo. "Es ter ail i a..." and those personality statues in parks are ALWAYS HIDEOUS. they should somehow do a collage sculpture of some sort, illustrating her songs. or just make a plaque with the lyrics of "song for sharon" or "hejira," citing them as the best lyrics ever written, and leave it at that. xxxx walt The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:01:49 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: joni's smoking I do no think such emphasis should be placed on the whole to smoke or not to smoke thing. We all know that Joni is a hard core, dedicated smoker. And I'm sure no one is really happy about that but it simply is the way it is. However, the statue is not going to be erected because she is a great smoker but because she is a great artist. So I think the emphasis should be on that. Joni cannot smoke while she's playing guitar. At least she never did when I saw her in concert. So if the statue includes playing the guitar, problem solved. She can have a pack in her pocket, if need be. I definitely don't think the statue should actually be SMOKING. That's just hilariously absurd. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:21:13 -0800 (PST) From: hell Subject: Re: joni's smoking Aerchak@aol.com wrote: > I do no think such emphasis should be placed on the whole to smoke > or not to smoke thing. We all know that Joni is a hard core, > dedicated smoker. And I'm sure no one is really happy about that but > it simply is the way it is. > However, the statue is not going to be erected because she is a great > smoker but because she is a great artist. So I think the emphasis > should be on that. Joni cannot smoke while she's playing guitar. At > least she never did when I saw her in concert. So if the statue > includes playing the guitar, problem solved. She can have a pack in > her pocket, if need be. I definitely don't think the statue should > actually be SMOKING. That's just hilariously absurd. I have to agree that the whole "smoking or not smoking" thing with Joni's statue is pretty absurd. Joni also drinks cappucino - should she be holding a coffee cup in her hand? She probably eats on a pretty regular basis too - maybe she should hold a knife and fork ;o)?! Hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 17:28:52 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: a white-assed deer Eric, I seem to recall that the Joni with deer painting from the TTT packaging was your fave - (mine, too). I loved finally getting to see the "companion" painting with Travelogue. Here's the background from Joni's KCSN interview at http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=426 RI: Does this come, by the way, from your imagination, or was this actually a chance encounter with a deer -- or not so chance? JM: This is in Japan an hour before I had to go on stage, and standing behind me are Wayne Shorter and Miles Davis' last girlfriend, who was a French girl, who is a philosophy teacher, and Wayne and a herd of little deer that bowed to you. We were so intrigued you'd walk up to deer and they'd bow to you and the people actually were the crowd that was lining upfor our concert all along the edge of the lake and they were thick. I eliminated a lot of figures. So this was a composite of several different things and then there's a lot of the magic -- you throw away your source materialat a certain point anyway. It's only used as a preliminary sketch and then you're going for a painting, you know, like otherwise, it's just anexercise. It's got to do something to compel you to look at it that a snapshot doesn't. You can get a certain amount from a snapshot, but a painting's got to be more than a snapshot, you know. But,for me, because it's personal it reminds me -- over across the lake is this enormous Golden Buddha, and they hadn't had a festival of music on these grounds -- this was a Buddhist garden for over a thousand years. At that time they invited their enemy, the Chinese, to perform at the foot of the Golden Buddha. This was an international show with Japanese artists, and British artists, Bob Dylan, and myself, and Wayne Shorter, and their "Miles Davis" and, you know, the far-out pink horn, electric-horn guy, that only knew one English word, the F-word (laughs), you know, so it's -- I did two paintings from this, one of Ana Shorter, who is really behind me with deer all around her all dressed inwhite. Ana was, unfortunately, lost -- RI: In that airplane accident -- JM: -- in that airplane accident, so that's the last day that I spent with her and Ana's is quite a beautiful -- to me -- I have that one in my dining room so this is a documentary. It's another piece of memorabilia for me. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:34:25 EST From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Re: Will Ashara please stand? njc Ashara here, standing tall with many thanks to the Jonifest ambassadors that came to Andrew's aid for more information about Jonifest. Most people know how VERY far behind I always am with Joni mail, thanks to bicoastal commuting. So....thanks to those that gave me a "heads up" on this as well. Andrew, it would be a tremendous pleasure to have you join us this year. And all the rest of you that have been on the fence for years...please consider this year to be *your* year to come to Jonifest 2003!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 20:38:34 -0500 From: vince Subject: Smokin... Look at the cover of T'log. Is that cigarette smoke? Look at the pics in BSN. Smoke play a role there? Joni has herself made that a part of her persona just as much as Michael Jordan's tongue hanging out when he went for a shot was a part of his. So Jordan's statue in Chicago has his tongue hanging out. No one is suggesting that Joni's statue have a cigarette dangling from her mouth, but an artist can work it in, the presence of an object that is essential to Joni's self image and persona. We need to stop looking at this is a moral or aesthetics issue. The woman has made smoking such a part of her life, it is in very interview, every comment, everything about her. And I sincerely doubt that when a child sees the statue they are going to say, aha, I will smoke too! I think other factors will be far more important there - And has anyone gone to American Spirits and asked for them to underwrite a part of the cost???? Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:20:13 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Diplomatic smokers offerings of peace ok I may be megaultrahypersensative lately. I do smoke Boy do I smoke but her was what I had in mind.(keep in mind it's a work in progress and help is appreciated what do I know about dresses) http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/JoniBenchSketch.jpg and here's another drawing http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/JoniMitchell.jpg DF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:50:17 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Diplomatic smokers offerings of peace WOW! I really love THIS close up sketch of Joni. Excellent - I think Joni would REALLY love this! Also, I like your work in progress. For me I keep seeing her in the bronze, and with much more detail, as she appears on the cover of LOTC. Of course with some embellishment and additional dimensions, such as instruments and I was thinking of birds or geese. As for the cigarette - I could take or leave that aspect. With her leg crossed so flat across the other - it may provide the opportunity for Joniphiles to sit right on her lap, when we make our pilgrimages to the statue. Imagine the photo opps! ... And the one I keep picturing running and jumping in her lap is our own Smurph! Can't get that image out of my head. Wish I could get it down on paper, I used to draw and sketch - but that was practically another lifetime ago now. Thanks for sharing these David. They are great! Peace, Susan Heading out into the cold for a little singing - Karaoke style! - --- chuty001 wrote: > ok I may be megaultrahypersensative lately. > I do smoke Boy do I smoke but her was what I had in mind.(keep in mind it's a > work in progress and help is appreciated what do I know about dresses) > > http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/JoniBenchSketch.jpg > > and here's another drawing > > http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/JoniMitchell.jpg > > DF Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:58:21 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: A request (NJC) >>And the request is: does anyone have a tape of Warren Zevon's 10/30/02 appearance on the David Letterman show? Zevon was the only guest, as has been discussed here before, and the show was basically a farewell.<< i saw the show & zevon amazed me with his spirit & humor...but i didn't tape it...if i hear of anyone who did i will let you know... we're doing a tribute to warren zevon ...for anyone interested who lives in the socal area (it will be similar to the joni tribute last month)...the date is dec 17 & email me if you need more details... (major digression- at one time he was a local resident & i still laugh about how many moons ago i bought a diaper pail & other baby gear from his (ex?) wife at a yard sale...at the time i didn't know who zevon was really but when i saw the big stack of records for sale & spoke to her a bit it clued me in) a lot of zevon's titles are sadly prophetic & i think it was on the letterman show when he mentioned that after he was given his diagnosis he then showed the doctor all the titles to his albums as if to say, see i knew somehow... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:58:24 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Washington Post review exactly fred, additionally i feel that the dirge like new version is in a sense a funeral for all those hopeful ideals so many of us had back then...not that there still isn't room for hope but in the wake of woodstock there was a tremendous surge of inspired hope that 'we' could change the world & now all these years later, at this particular point in time, it sure doesn't look as hopeful... >>But isn't that exactly the point being made in the new version? The fragile celebration of our youth that was embodied by Woodstock *has* been replaced by the weary melancholy of life in these days of "high late capitalism" as James Taylor calls them. Seems to me like she nails it.- -Fred<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:58:26 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni Fest, here I come! yes yes yes!!!!! my vote goes to vancouver, bc we west coasters need something closer.... andrew >>I'd love to have a JoniFest somewhere in Canada at some point - Ottawa (where I'm from) is a great town for it. Or Toronto - so much to do and see! Or even Saskatoon!<< stephen >>Nominating Vancouver as host city for Jonifest 2004- perhaps somewhere up the Sunshine Coast ;-)<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:57:57 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: we be in da chat room Come join Nikki, Chuck and I! Jenny Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:17:17 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Diplomatic smokers offerings of peace Wonderful sketches Fred! I'm sure Joni would love both of them. You are truly a talented man! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:19:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Will Ashara please stand? Son, you need to look around your new home: www.jmdl.com Scan down the left-hand column and find "The Library". That's where you'll find many scores of interviews and review (curiously though you won't find Leonard Feather's ecstatic review of MINGUS for downbeat magazine, which he rated 5 stars out of 5.) Scan further down the left-hand column and you'll find "JoniFests". As you hover over the word, you'll see it change color. You'll thank me in a few days when you wake up from spending 20 straight hours reading up on JoniFests. Lama Now class, let's review. Did downbeat magazine trash MINGUS? How many stars did Leonard Feather of downbeat magazine give MINGUS? Anyone? Goodspeed? > I'd love to know more, and I'm sure others would > too. Where is it going to be in 2003? What happens > at JoniFest? Is there singing? Dancing? Eating? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:25:32 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Will Ashara please stand? - --- Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Son, you need to look around your new home: > www.jmdl.com Oh, I've been exploring little by little. You're right about the 20-day haze, though. It may just take that long for my mind to process all this information... - -A- Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:27:09 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Covers #35, Santa's got a brand new bag! njc --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > > > > Caterina Valente - ..interesting bit o' Joni cover > trivia, Caterina's son is none other than Eric van > Aro, the singer of track # 9. > > Speaking of trivia, her brother is Sergio Franchi. > I remember them both well from the Ed Sullivan Show. And for some reason, one of my brothers-in-law likes to call me Caterina Valente. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:27:44 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Ross Subject: animal game njc is to ask an uninitiate to name a favorite animal, then why. a 2nd favorite, then why. a 3rd, and why. answer these briefly and I'll tell you the interpretation. TR Tom Ross Mijazi Music (518) 372-2611 http://www.tom.rossweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:30:48 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #543 the Nielson sounds interesting! keep me posted. Tom Ross Mijazi Music (518) 372-2611 http://www.tom.rossweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:35:29 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC don't smoke the statue I wish I remembered about the award thing. But I don't. I do remember the stink being made at the time - - the mayor at the time was Barbara Hall, I think (could've been June Rowlands) (probably Hall because the whole thing is SO NDP). I just remember thinking, "Oh, brother" about the whole thing. One thing about Toronto - our mayors may be flakes and weirdos but they are colourful in their own strange way. We've had several clowns run for mayor, but the only one that made it to office was Lastman. In fact, one of the "clowns" that ran for mayor (this is going back quite a number of years) was Vicki Gabereau, who did a TV interview with Joni a few years ago (I don't remember her clown name but I'm pretty sure the word "Sunshine" figured in it.) --- Mags N Brei wrote: > i remember that fiasco around the Ladies...the good > news in that is they received a lot of great > press/attention as a result.. I think the city of > Toronto apologized and if Im not mistaken, they > received some kind of award ? Torontonians, help me > out. > Mags, watching the snow come down ... looks like a > snow globe out there only the snow keeps coming down > ... > > chuty001 wrote:I live in a > city where an evergreen decorated in tinsel is > referred to as a > holiday tree as to not offend anyone who doesn't do > the Christmas thing. A > city that cancelled the Barenaked ladies New years > eve show because they > thought their name was politically incorrect. In > their own home town no less. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:36:18 -0800 From: "Mark Connely" Subject: ciggies are yummy In all the talk about cigs and smoking here, there is a conspicuously absent view. That is the view that cigarettes are good! I have smoked for twenty years, off and on. The longest I quit was for 4 years. 4 years, and not a puff, and then, back on 'em. After 4 years, I was no longer jonesing for a smoke, but I missed them. Why? Because I LIKE THEM. I LOVE to smoke cigarettes. I love the taste, the rush, the smoke, the heat. Too much is made of the power of addiction. Did Jerry do smack because he hated it? He loved it! Is it OK to love a particular drug, a certain high? I say YEESSSS! Now, if I could only get the doc to loosen up with the Vicodin.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:39:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Washington Post review About Joni's song "Woodstock"---- In the Jazz world, the finest songs of many generations are kept alive through a never-ending tradition of new interpretation. Just because the CSNY version is the ONLY one I want to hear when I'm accelerating downhill onto the freeway at 1PM on a Saturday, doesn't mean that no one should ever attempt to give it a different "spin" (both puns intended). TRAVELOGUE doesn't have to present the definitive "Amelia" either. I know where that one can be found and it's completely safe and sound, thank you very much. (2nd place goes to Paz'es version on the PazFest set- I like it better than the one on TRAVELOGUE..... But Paz doesn't have the same chick singer on his!) Anyway, this lecturing-old-coot (me) is still banging away at the same point he made a fortnight ago- that this collection is completely worthy of sitting on the same shelf as S&L and MOA. It's not overpriced to me. If the TRAVELOGUE that we all have right now had been marketed as a "Limited Edition" it would have cost 50% more and we all would have bought it anyway; we all would have felt very smug about being true fans while others might be happy with the 'lesser' version with the simpler artwork. Finally, does anyone really want to go back to philosophy of "throwing up the art" like they did on 'hits' and 'misses'? "No further questions, your honor. Your witness." Lama - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > exactly fred, additionally i feel that the dirge > like new version is in a > sense a funeral for all those hopeful ideals so many > of us had back > then...not that there still isn't room for hope but > in the wake of woodstock > there was a tremendous surge of inspired hope that > 'we' could change the > world & now all these years later, at this > particular point in time, it sure > doesn't look as hopeful... Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:39:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Judy/"Both Sides Now" --- "Mary E. Pitassi" wrote: > > I remain discouraged that Judy's version of > "BSN" is the only one > that many people are familiar with, and the one many > others regard as the > "original" to judge other covers by. My own mother > dutifully listened to a > tape of a mature Joni singing "BSN" a couple of > years back, but basically > thought that Joni was mutilating her own song, > because all my mother knew was > Judy's sing-songy version. SIGH. I remember when Judy's version came out & became so popular being sort of torn because I like Judy and I was glad a Joni song was up there in the public eye, but I was pissed off because it wasn't Joni's own version that was being promoted, and Judy's was just too tame compared to Joni's. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:42:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Will Ashara please stand?, njc really Old Ben Kenobe to Luke: "Congratulations! You've taken your first step into a LARGER world." - --- Little Bird wrote: > Oh, I've been exploring little by little. You're > right > about the 20-day haze, though. It may just take that > long for my mind to process all this information... Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:48:02 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Will Ashara please stand?, njc really >> "Congratulations! You've taken your first step into a LARGER world.">> I'll let you get away with that one but I draw the line at being called your "young apprentice." - -A- Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:51:51 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni --- Lori Fye wrote: > > wasn't there > an interview in which Joni mentioned that an Indian > or shaman told her > that her smoking keeps her "grounded" or keeps her > "from > disappearing"? (Does anyone else remember this?) When Joni comes out with statements like this (if indeed she did, but I wouldn't be surprised), I have to wonder if she hasn't crossed completely over into Flake City. (But I still love her.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:56:53 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Edgar Allen Poe? --- Deb Messling wrote: > According to the W article: > > First off, she accuses Reprise executives of > ignorance. Since they have > never heard of, for example, Edgar Allan Poe or Job, > they don't get the > references in her lyrics. "And they think if they > don't, nobody else will," > she says. > > Does anybody recall any references to the works of > Poe in Joni's lyrics? > Thank you for asking - I wondered about that myself but forgot to ask. I don't recall any Poe references in Joni's work. If she were talking about the Alan Parsons Project, that would be a different story. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 19:57:57 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni Fest! And you'd be surprised how much people have in common based on their shared admiration for a musical artist! No we wouldn't. ;-) Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:07:40 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC coon dog --- colin wrote: I realised > this when the Maine Coon Cat became popular here. > (still cannot > undertsand why people would pay a lot of money for a > pedigree cat that > looks like a moggy) Pedigree/schmedigree. They are glorified moggies. Most of the so-called pedigree cats or "breeds" of cat are just accidents that became trendy for some sick reason and people make a fortune off them. The cat business is even more bizarre than the dog business. Think of the Munchkin, which isn't a breed of cat at all as such, but a mutant cat with short legs, that some people thought were cute for some sick reason, so they kept breeding them to produce more short-legged cats that can't jump up on the kitchen counter and eat your food (Ya gotta love that! And how about those bald cats for people with allergies?). I have a cat that I got at the Human Society and she fits all the description of the Maine Coon except that they're supposed to be larger than most cats, and mine is pretty small. So, she's a runt; and I just paid a token amount for her to the Humane Society (she is the sweetest cat you could ever hope to meet.) I call her my Maine Coonette. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:26:30 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Re: joni tribute in boston I will be making my reservation for this tommorrow morning! Thanks for the heads up, Yael! - -Chris - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yael Harlap" To: Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 6:00 PM Subject: joni tribute in boston > hey all- > > my friend rosie told me there's gonna be a joni tribute concert at club > passim on january 6th. > if it were only a few days earlier i could have made it!! but i need to be > back in ann arbor by then. grr. > > they asked her to do a song and she might be too late to take them up on it > but she asked me if > i could recommend a little-covered song that would suit her voice... > i recommended marcie, blue motel room, cold blue steel... and electricity. > > i'm keeping my fingers crossed that she does it!! > > man, i'm jealous of folks who will get to see that show. > why couldn't it be even two days earlier?! > > -yael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 22:27:05 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Joni's smoking statue As much as Joni would have us believe that cigarettes have helped her writing abilities, I think its more likely that every time she tried to quit, her inability to write was hampered by the symptoms of withdrawl. Sure - - Joni with a cigarette in hand is classic Joni. However, a permanent statue will be viewed by many impressionable youngsters as well. Most cigarette addicts begin smoking in their childhood. I'm against most censorship. However, parents have choices in the library and music stores. There isn't much a parent can do to keep their child from looking at a smoking statue in a public park. I don't recall seeing any statues of Elvis with a box of Dunkin Donuts on his lap or a bottle of prescription drugs in hand. (sorry if I've offended anyone) Because Joni grew up in Saskatoon, I feel that her statue should reflect upon those years. Perhaps Joni could be playing the baritone ukelele she started out with, or ice-skating, or painting.......or maybe she could be playing the piano with her knuckles being rapped by the teacher! Mia _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:28:13 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Insensitivity vs. hypersensitivity njc njc njfreakinc --- Little Bird wrote: > DF wrote: "Should I have read farther back into the > archives. Is it normally this > Insensitive around here." > > > I think the matter may be more about > hyper-sensitivity rather than insensitivity. With a > list this size, people are going to occasionally > step on one another's toes since we are here to > DISCUSS, meaning that opinions of all shapes, sizes > and colours are flying back and forth. I do remember the first time I joined this list, there was some kind of flame-war/discussion/disagreement (call it what you will because it's mostly a matter of perspective) going on at the time. I don't remember what it was about. Maybe (likely) there were several different, erm, discussions going on at the same time. Between that and the masses of posts that arrive some days (there were about 150 when I signed in tonight and I still have about 50 left to read but I think I'll have to save that for tomorrow) I ended up unsubscribing within a day or two, because it scared me right off. I signed on again about a year after that and for some reason, it didn't bother me this time. I think the list goes through these periods when people argue back and forth about things. If it gets too much (esp. the political stuff) I usually just delete a bunch without reading them. In fact, usually if I see 150 posts in my inbox, I just sort them by subject and delete anything with subject headers that appear to be political or something I'm not terribly interested in (like sports); perhaps deleting a few treasures in the process, but what canya do? Sometimes I don't even understand what the hell people are talking about, so I just let those slide. Sometimes I learn things about other people and about myself by reading people's views on things I might not even have thought of before. On the other hand, sometimes I just don't give a rat's ass! All in all, this is a good bunch of people but it's like family - sometimes there are fights, but deep down, you gotta love 'em. P.S. If you really want to piss someone on this list off, tell them they're too sensitive ;) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:41:38 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) --- FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > Since everyone else was taking Chris' test, I > thougth I'd give it a try. > > Well, I'm an Eastern Nigerian Dwarf Goat !!! I > don't even know what the hell > that is. > I guess nobody better sleep with me :~) LMAO, Jimmy! I'm sure you do the Eastern Nigerian Dwarf Goat Dance very well. P.S. These tests are so dumb. I'm a swan. Swannee, how I love ya, how I love ya! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 22:54:06 -0700 From: Sarah Gibb Subject: Re: Joni's statue and smoking Hey Colin, I'm not having a go at you here, and I don't want to prolong the smoking thread unnecessarily, but I can't not respond to your comment that smoking doesn't cause disease in most smokers. Long term smokers who don't become ill are the lucky ones, and you're right that it's probably a genetic issue that protects them. Scientists, supported (of course) by the tobacco companies, and experimenting (of course) on animals who would otherwise never smoke, are currently trying to find out what that is. That aside, smoking causes serious illness in almost all long term smokers, and some short term smokers. Lung damage is not reversible. But smokers rationalize the damage away. They can't do sport easily/can't climb stairs easily, so they tell themselves they must lose weight/go to the gym. When they develop the cough, they call it "smokers' cough", when they should be calling it lung damage. Smoking and obesity are two of the major causes of death in North America. We don't think it's cool when people eat themselves to death, and we wouldn't think it respectful to build a statue of Elvis Presley holding burgers and pies in his hands, even though eating was as much his trademark at the end of his life as smoking is Joni Mitchell's. COPD (smokers' disease - bronchitis and emphysema) is the fourth leading cause of death in America. In 2000, 10 million people were listed as having been diagnosed with COPD, 1.5 million visited an emergency room because of it, 726,000 were hospitalized with it, and 119,000 died from it. Another 14 million Americans are believed to suffer from COPD undiagnosed. Death rates are an underestimate because many death certificates will say "heart attack" or "old age", and won't bother to mention the lung damage that caused the heart to stop. I don't buy the choice thing, because most people start smoking when they're teenagers, and by the time they realize the damage they're doing, they're addicted and their choice is massively reduced. I agree with what you say about other types of air pollution. Okay, I'm off my soapbox now. As I said earlier, when you've worked as a smoking cessation counselor and have seen the terrible things people have done to themselves, and how they long not to have done them, you can't let myths about smoking just pass on by. No offence intended to you personally. Best, Sarah At 12:09 AM +0000 12/06/2002, colin wrote: > >very sad and very unlucky people. smoking does not casue disease in >all people who smoke, not even in most of them. >My partner's sister is 60 and she is dying from lung cancer and >emphysema. she has never smoked. >One would be a fool to pretend that smoking is good for one, but >there is so much scare mongering and exaggeration surrounding the >smoking issue. >Both sides of my faimly are very long lived-80's and 90's and most >smoke. Those that have died young, an aunt from cancer, and uncle >from pneumonia, another form a stroke, did not ever smoke. Of course >this does not eman that the long lived ones are kept alive by >smoking. it does imply that our diseases are much more controlled by >genes than anything else. > >on tv tonight they were showing filters used to measure the air in >London, the filters were covered in black soot-as are thelungs of >those who live and breathe there. The air we breathe, the >chemicals/poisons in our foods and water are all ignored and smoking >is made the scapegoat. > >Howver, smoking is not a good thing to do, butit really is time >people minded their own business and live and let live. the >pullution angle is really crap. these same people do not rant about >the car they drive or the plane they catch etc. In this modern >world, people are just too plain nosey! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:02:56 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni's smoking --- hell wrote: > I have to agree that the whole "smoking or not > smoking" thing with Joni's > statue is pretty absurd. Joni also drinks cappucino > - should she be holding > a coffee cup in her hand? She probably eats on a > pretty regular basis too - > maybe she should hold a knife and fork ;o)?! > Then again, she also needs her dulcimer, guitars (acoustic, electric, VG8, whatever), her piano, preferably a grand; that'd be nice. She has cats too, so maybe there should be cats all around her (maybe one on her shoulder?). And then again there's her new little doggie. She needs to have her paints and her easel, and some paper to write down the lyrics of new songs. What should she be wearing? Something by Issey? (maybe he can donate something to the cause, like a dress made out of bronze). My goodness, this is getting kind of busy. Hmm, how about a desk to put the paper on that she's writing the lyrics on so she doesn't have to hold it? how about a couple of extra hands to hold all that stuff? how about a marble bowling ball over the month of June? Saskatoon gets cold in winter. She's going to need a coat and a good pair of winter boots, maybe with an extra pair of heavy socks to keep her feet warm. Don't forget the hat, she needs one of those. Is she still drinking that German wine? Get her a bottle of that. And a glass to drink it out of; we can't have Joni slugging it back from the bottle. Aw, jeez, get her a whole case; she's going to be there a while. (How big is this park or wherever the statue's going to be? Is there room for a Lexus?) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:04:11 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Joni's statue Travis thinks it should be a virtual statue on view at www.fonijoni.com Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 00:06:05 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Diplomatic smokers offerings of peace --- chuty001 wrote: > ok I may be megaultrahypersensative lately. > I do smoke Boy do I smoke but her was what I had in > mind.(keep in mind it's a > work in progress and help is appreciated what do I > know about dresses) > > http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/JoniBenchSketch.jpg > > and here's another drawing > > http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/JoniMitchell.jpg I'm shocked and amazed, esp. at item 2. Mister, you draw REAL GOOD! (In item 1, is that a raven on the bench? Is that a Poe reference?) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:33:55 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: joni's smoking statue and other shiny toys LOLOL - that is hilarious, Catherine, LOL As for the statue, I think it's a beautiful idea (kudos to the organizing committee and artists) and now want one in L.A., too! ;-) Though I'm an incorrigible smoker, I wouldn't want to see the rendition include a cig - even though it is kind of a trademark of hers. There's just too much negativity associated with smoking and I wouldn't want to hear years on of various people and groups griping and protesting against the statue (or possibly even vandalizing it) because she holds a cigarette. It's just not worth it. When I think of Joni, I don't think of her smoking at all. Then again, maybe we could put a smokin' Joni statue on a bench out here along the Venice, CA boardwalk where it may be more acceptable ;-) But for the hometown, it should invoke beauty and not controversy. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #546 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)