From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #545 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, December 5 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 545 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC coon dog ["Lori Fye" ] RE: Will Ashara please stand? njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni ["chuty001" ] RE: NJC coon dog ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: Edgar Allen Poe? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni [dsk ] Re: NJC coon dog ["chuty001" ] Re: Fw: NJC coon dog ["Sybil Skelton" ] RE: NJC coon dog ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: Will Ashara please stand? njc [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni ["Lori Fye" ] RE: new Joni DVD = Diltz? ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC coon dog ["Lori Fye" ] Joni Fest! [Little Bird ] Re: Joni Fest! [Susan Guzzi ] Insensitivity vs. hypersensitivity [Little Bird ] DF's Joni drawing - It's back!! ["Lori Fye" ] Re: DF's Joni drawing - It's back!! ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Covers #35, Santa's got a brand new bag! [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Joni's smoking [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: NJC coon dog ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? ["Adam Mulvey" ] Re: Joni's smoking ["Adam Mulvey" ] jack's tour dates NJC [Yael Harlap ] amelias [Yael Harlap ] RE: the JMDL community ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni [Murphycopy@aol.com] joni in stone, to smoke or not to smoke [Yael Harlap ] LAST CHANCE LOST [] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: new Joni DVD = Diltz? ["kakki" ] Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? [colin ] Joni's statue and smoking [Sarah Gibb ] Re: the JMDL communitynjc [colin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:51:46 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: NJC coon dog > Then of course I realised that coon was short for Raccoon. Whereas is > in this country coon was an offensive word used by racists to > describe black people . Unfortunately, Colin, it's used that way in the U.S., too. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:54:42 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: Will Ashara please stand? njc > But there are photos there from the other Jonifest and get togethers, > including the fabulous Pazfest. True, and they're all great photos (with funny captions)! The reason I mentioned the absence of JF2002 photos was simply because this year's Fest was the first one held at Full Moon, which is where we'll be for JF2003. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:56:28 -0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) Okay I'm also a Koala which can't be bad. Does this mean I should eat leaves? Steve N.P: 'Sire Of Sorrow...'(Trav. vers.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:56:44 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: NJC coon dog Does anyone know why? I know how the "N" word got started but I never got "coon". But then there are may slurs I don't understand. Kasey > Then of course I realised that coon was short for Raccoon. Whereas is > in this country coon was an offensive word used by racists to > describe black people . Unfortunately, Colin, it's used that way in the U.S., too. Lori ~Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:10:03 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni I don't care for Les pauls she should have a Martin. I don't care for Blondes I like brunettes statue should be a brunette. I don't like facial hair Garcia's statue should be shaved with or without a needle. This is how crazy this is sounding to me. I am new around here and read along for awhile before posting. I felt it was an interesting group of people that seemed sensitive and friendly. So far this week I'm beginning to think I was wrong. Now this is not meant to offend anybody so please try to not take it the wrong way but here is a recap of what stands out in my mind. A few posts cracking jokes about a fag in a statues hand which didn't seem to bother anybody(made me uncomfortable) an insensitive review of the audience at an Armatrading concert (once again trying to be funny I don't think he meant any harm. But yes Insensitive and in very poor taste. And requiring several apologies I would hope) It seems ok to question if all Canadians are plain and unambitious or only the ones who are kind enough to share there music with the rest of the world.(all tongue in cheek of course and I don't think any harm was meant) Now It's smokers. I've been told by many I have a good sense of humour but found non of the above funny. I see no humour in jokes at other peoples expense. Especially mine(I do fit into a few of the above categories) I've kept my mouth as closed as I am capable of to this point because I've conversed with some great people from here. But after reading Susan's post and how she's been left feeling I had to say something. Should I have read farther back into the archives. Is it normally this Insensitive around here. DF - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: "Victor Johnson" ; Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 11:11 AM Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > > But does that mean that a statue of Jerry Garcia should have him > > shooting up heroin? > > Good point, Victor. > > > I have no problem imagining Joni without a cigarette and wouldn't > > even ever think about the fact that she smokes except that it is > > brought up here so often. > > I can imagine Joni without a cig, but I have to think back to the LOTC > years to do that, even though I know she smoked back then. When I saw > her at "A Day In The Garden" in Bethel, though, she smoked on stage > almost non-stop. And that's the image that sticks in my mind. > > > Actually, I can't think of anyone I know that I envision with a > > cigarette every time I think about them. > > Oh, I can think of people. Several friends and relatives. In fact, > for some reason people who barely know me often ask me if I want a > cigarette, or if I've just stopped smoking. (Yes, when I was 18.) > Apparently there's something about me that suggests to them that I > should be puffing away ... > > Lori > (now 44) > > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:13:32 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: NJC coon dog Coon also refers to a rustic, country, or undignified person, as to where the raccoons live. That negative connotation unfortunately was attached to African Americans who were, through no fault of their own, rural. Jerry - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of kasey simpson Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:57 PM To: colin; Lori Fye; jmdl Subject: Fw: NJC coon dog Does anyone know why? I know how the "N" word got started but I never got "coon". But then there are may slurs I don't understand. Kasey > Then of course I realised that coon was short for Raccoon. Whereas is > in this country coon was an offensive word used by racists to > describe black people . Unfortunately, Colin, it's used that way in the U.S., too. Lori ~Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:13:56 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Edgar Allen Poe? In a message dated 12/5/2002 1:31:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, messling@enter.net writes: > Does anybody recall any references to the works of Poe in > Joni's lyrics? I thought that was odd as well, Deb...I don't recall any unless you want to stretch "Black Crow" and compare it with "The Raven"... Bob NP: Sam Cooke, "Chain Gang", live at the Harlem Square Club ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:18:23 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni Lori Fye wrote: > > For some reason, I think Joni would be offended if her statue did not > include a cigarette. Maybe I'm wrong, but she does want it to be a > true likeness, and I think that means "warts" and all. I'm thinking of people seeing this statue 100 years or so from now, long after we're all gone. Does Joni really want to be remembered primarily as a smoker? Or as the best singer/songwriter/poet/storyteller of her time? I also imagine it a representation of her as a long-haired 30-year old, which some people, including Joni, may not agree with (what, no jazz? no respect for maturity?). And seated and playing a guitar! So how can she smoke then? There are many pictures of her with a guitar and no cigarette, and that music-making image is what comes to mind first when I think about her. I'd like to see what Joni would come up with. It probably would include a cigarette. It's so odd that she's stuck in a "romantic" image from the 1940s when she seems so forward thinking in other ways. All this goes to show that this will be a challenging project for all concerned, and I'm impressed that anyone would have the gumption to take it on. (You've been truly inspired by the mysterious Joni-fanhood bug, Sarah!) Considering the difficulty with getting a tribute cd released because of Joni's involvement, maybe Joni should not be involved with this tribute to her. (Would that be possible?) Debra Shea, who smoked like a dragon for 15 years, with a habit so demanding I'd go between subway cars to light up if there was a train delay. I know all about cigarettes' hooks and thank god am not ruled by them today! I also know how hard an addiction it is to break, so while I can understand all that and generally try to go easy on smokers, memorializing and glorifying that habit doesn't seem like a good idea no matter what Joni might think. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:20:42 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: NJC coon dog I always thought it was the black face with glowing white eyes and teeth but what do I know - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "'kasey simpson'" ; "'colin'" ; "'Lori Fye'" ; "'jmdl'" Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:13 PM Subject: RE: NJC coon dog > Coon also refers to a rustic, country, or undignified person, as to where > the raccoons live. That negative connotation unfortunately was attached to > African Americans who were, through no fault of their own, rural. > > Jerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of kasey > simpson > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:57 PM > To: colin; Lori Fye; jmdl > Subject: Fw: NJC coon dog > > > Does anyone know why? I know how the "N" word got started > but I never got "coon". But then there are may slurs I don't > understand. > Kasey > > > Then of course I realised that coon was short for Raccoon. Whereas is > > in this country coon was an offensive word used by racists to > > describe black people . > > Unfortunately, Colin, it's used that way in the U.S., too. > > Lori > > ~Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:24:08 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: Fw: NJC coon dog As a native Texan, I have of course heard my share of racial epithets. But growing up I always heard the term "coon ass" used to refer to folks from Louisiana - I think Cajuns specfically. A lot of my family is from Louisiana originally so I guess that's why I heard it, but I was never clear exactly what a "coon ass" was. Don't we have someone here from South Louisiana who can clarify this for me? Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:29:27 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: NJC coon dog Minstrel songs were known as coon songs, but not for that reason. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of chuty001 Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:21 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: NJC coon dog I always thought it was the black face with glowing white eyes and teeth but what do I know - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "'kasey simpson'" ; "'colin'" ; "'Lori Fye'" ; "'jmdl'" Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:13 PM Subject: RE: NJC coon dog > Coon also refers to a rustic, country, or undignified person, as to where > the raccoons live. That negative connotation unfortunately was attached to > African Americans who were, through no fault of their own, rural. > > Jerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of kasey > simpson > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:57 PM > To: colin; Lori Fye; jmdl > Subject: Fw: NJC coon dog > > > Does anyone know why? I know how the "N" word got started > but I never got "coon". But then there are may slurs I don't > understand. > Kasey > > > Then of course I realised that coon was short for Raccoon. Whereas is > > in this country coon was an offensive word used by racists to > > describe black people . > > Unfortunately, Colin, it's used that way in the U.S., too. > > Lori > > ~Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:31:58 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Will Ashara please stand? njc Lovely Lori wrote: > That's a good idea, Jerry, although we don't yet have the photos, et > cetera, from Jonifest 2002 posted to the website. (Soon, though ... > SOON.) > Andrew, you can go to the site Chris Marshall set up to look at LOTS of photos of the Joni fest 2002. It gives you a better idea than just looking at the full moon website. Go to http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/ and click on any of the sub albums on the right hand side. I've been to 4 fests and they are FANTASTIC !!!!! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:37:31 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > It's so odd that she's stuck in a "romantic" image from the > 1940s when she seems so forward thinking in other ways. Life being the "circle game" it tends to be, as people age they often come back around to nostalgic memories of their childhood. Joni was born in 1943. The 40s were all about "romantic" images, especially in the movies, in which many (if not most) of the actors smoked. So perhaps it's not so odd. Debra, I do see your point about the statue being viewed 100 years from now. (Of course, pessimist that I am, I don't expect anything to be here then.) Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:41:00 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: a white-assed deer At 12:22 AM 12/5/2002 -0500, Eric W Taylor wrote: >It's a woman with black hair joyously feeding a white-assed deer. It looks >like Joni wearing a wig! I believe it was Kakki who pointed out that the woman is the late Anna Shorter, wife of Joni collaborator Wayne Shorter. Mrs. Shorter perished aboard TWA Flight 800. The painting depicts a scene from Japan where Joni and her band were about to perform. Before the concert some of the group went out into the countryside and found a small herd of very friendly deer. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:49:54 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: new Joni DVD = Diltz? the beginning of my dvd looks like a screen you'd have on your computer because it says something like enter here...i wonder if it has some of the little exploring places that you mentioned kakki, like the cdr...hmmm does anyone else have this on dvd? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:43:40 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: NJC coon dog > But growing up I always heard the term "coon ass" used to refer to > folks from Louisiana - I think Cajuns specfically. A lot of my family > is from Louisiana originally so I guess that's why I heard it, but I > was never clear exactly what a "coon ass" was. Here's one definition, also from http://www.rsdb.net/: French-Canadian Exiles who migrated to Louisiana. Fur traders. Originated during WW2 when the French soldiers heard the Cajun-French American forces speaking a very old version of the French language peppered with slang, they called them 'conasse', which translates roughly to mean 'cheap whore'. Of course the other non-Cajun members of the American forces heard this as "Coon Ass", and it stuck. Dunno if that's really so, though. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:56:03 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni Fest! Well, I've been to jonimitchell.info and had a peek at the Joni Fest section. It DOES look like fun! I may not make it this year because I'm poor, but I'd love to attend at some point! It's such a great idea! I had a similar experience when a whole group of us from the Eurythmics discussion list got together in New York City in 1999 to attend their concert at Madison Square Garden. It was four days of glorious fun. And you'd be surprised how much people have in common based on their shared admiration for a musical artist! - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:10:51 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Joni Fest! Hey Andrew, Well for those of us who have been to a Jonifest - WE absolutely would not be surprised! Maybe the first time people are but after that it's HOME - baby! There are ways to get there Andrew! I am always poor and will be heading there for the 3rd time in August! I can't imagine NOT going! And this year we should get to see Jimmy's syncronized swimming extravaganza - which should not be missed - from what I hear. But I think Ethel will be vacationing elesewhere this year - like The Betty Ford Clinic! Peace, Susan - --- Little Bird wrote: > Well, I've been to jonimitchell.info and had a peek at the Joni Fest section. It DOES look like > fun! I may not make it this year because I'm poor, but I'd love to attend at some point! It's > such a great idea! > > I had a similar experience when a whole group of us from the Eurythmics discussion list got > together in New York City in 1999 to attend their concert at Madison Square Garden. It was four > days of glorious fun. And you'd be surprised how much people have in common based on their > shared admiration for a musical artist! > > -Andrew > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:14:29 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Insensitivity vs. hypersensitivity DF wrote: "Should I have read farther back into the archives. Is it normally this Insensitive around here." I think the matter may be more about hyper-sensitivity rather than insensitivity. With a list this size, people are going to occasionally step on one another's toes since we are here to DISCUSS, meaning that opinions of all shapes, sizes and colours are flying back and forth. Not all of them will meet with everyone's approval, nor should they. Life's way too short to be PC and homogenous, not meaning to offend people who feel life should be that way! Ahem... We're also dealing with a very grey form of communication. Writing conversationally via e-mail often causes misunderstandings and hurt feelings because tone of voice, facial expression and body language are absent. While I haven't agreed with everything that everyone posts, I think there is a healthy respect for everyone on board. If something offends you, take it with a dose of salt and move on - it's not life or death and it isn't even a matter of personal attack, just differences of opinion about all kinds of topics. Remember this is just a group of people who like the same artist, not a workshop on how to offend people or how best to please every individual. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and while tact and foresight are hopefully components of each post, it is not anyone's duty to please anyone else with their thoughts. In fact, it's often more exciting to incite debate and discussion about controversial matters, like smoking versus non smoking, ambitious or unambitious Canadian voices, fags, homosexuals and cigarettes. Just don't take it so personally. And if someone does get personal with you, take it off list and give them hell. "Throwin' the lightness on these things, laughin' it all the way," - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:20:08 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni Fest, here I come! Well, thanks to EVERYONE who has written to me and to the list about JoniFest! I am certainly intrigued and will try very hard to make it in August! I do have some Air Miles saved up... I'd love to have a JoniFest somewhere in Canada at some point - Ottawa (where I'm from) is a great town for it. Or Toronto - so much to do and see! Or even Saskatoon! I'm excited. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 12:28:26 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: DF's Joni drawing - It's back!! Hey Paz (and everyone else who didn't see it before), here's your chance! http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Drawing-Joni1-1.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 12:33:45 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: DF's Joni drawing - It's back!! Getting lots of hits, isn't it? If you can't access it directly, try this: http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Images.html then scroll down to "Joni Drawing". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:34:35 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Re: Joni Fest, here I come! Quoting Little Bird : > "I'd love to have a JoniFest somewhere in Canada at some point - Ottawa (where > I'm from) is a great town for it. Or Toronto - so much to do and see! Or even > Saskatoon!" Unfortunately I missed the Saskatoon gathering for the opening of Joni's show. But we certainly had fun @ the Harbourfront tribute in Toronto last October! And two winters ago a mini gathering in Vancouver with some SoCal and Argentine members. I think a good time is had by all whenever jmdlers get together. Best Stephen in Vancouver Nominating Vancouver as host city for Jonifest 2004- perhaps somewhere up the Sunshine Coast ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 20:49:57 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > A few posts cracking jokes about a fag in a statues hand which didn't seem >to bother anybody(made me uncomfortable) > why would it? I think all who cracked jokes about fags in hands were 'fags', including me who made the intial comment. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:55:32 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers #35, Santa's got a brand new bag! Thanks so much for another great covers CD. Like you said, it's definitely a mixed bag. I love Jo Collin's "Carey", Leora Cashe's "I Don't Know Where I Stand", the acoustic guitar medley by Mimi Fox, and Laura Canoura's "La Ultima Vez Que Vi A Richard". They're all great covers. Now I thought Jonathon King was trying to mix "Free Man in Paris" with "Safety Dance" lol As for Brad Swanson, that's the absolutely the worse cover of BSN. It didn't sound like a roller rink version. It was more like the little old man that sits at a casio playing at the mall music store :~) I love it!!!! Anyway, thanks again for all your hard work.......and thanks to Whirly Pearl, David Lahm, and Bob's little sis Chris. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 15:55:47 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? I recall Joni saying once that Bob Dylan and her mother shared the same birthday, well you know how much skuffles joni has said that she and her mother has gotten into and that that day is the "Day of the MOralists" so, maybe romantic flames never arised because of that? BLair > > > I was just wondering everyone's opinion about why Joni and Bob Dylan >never > > became romantically involved???? They were obviously knew alot of the >same > > people and traveled to the same places......why no court and spark??? > >A Gemini and a Scorpio? They would kill each other! _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:10:24 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) who who, me toooooo...i take this to mean i'm a wise ass...lol >>Not sure how to take this but apparently I'm an owl. Mark WHOOO?? in Seattle<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:14:15 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) Kate Bennett wrote: > > who who, me toooooo...i take this to mean i'm a wise ass...lol I'm an owl, too. Wise ass sounds good! Much better than me thinking surely I'm not an owl because I'm definitely unwise when it comes to dalliances. Yeah, wise ass. I like it! But then I took the quiz again and was a monkey. Uh oh, I'm confused now... Debra Shea, smoothing my feathers, ruffling my fur, and about to venture out into the beautiful snow in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:30:15 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) Since everyone else was taking Chris' test, I thougth I'd give it a try. Well, I'm an Eastern Nigerian Dwarf Goat !!! I don't even know what the hell that is. I guess nobody better sleep with me :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:36:33 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Joni's smoking Can you please get off the smoking thing? Joni's a smoker. End of story. It's nobody's business if she is "immortalized" as a smoker. Get over it. The woman is a bloody genius, for god's sake. Andrea in NY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:50:59 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) > Well, I'm an Eastern Nigerian Dwarf Goat !!! I don't even know what > the hell that is. I guess nobody better sleep with me :~) Au contrare, Jimmy! My guess is that you do the goat dance very well. ; ) Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 16:53:21 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Joni's smoking > Can you please get off the smoking thing? Joni's a smoker. End of story. > It's nobody's business if she is "immortalized" as a smoker. Actually, it is everyone's business as there was a specific request for input regarding the development of the statue, which is still well in the planning stages. > The woman is a bloody genius, for god's sake. You're suggesting a statue of Joni kneeling down, praying to God, with blood all over her? Yes, that's a much better idea. The gall of these people, suggesting that she hold a cigarette in her hand...:~} Victor in Asheville - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:00:55 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: NJC coon dog > Does anyone know why? I know how the "N" word got started > but I never got "coon". There are various "explanations" on the internet. Some examples: 1) From http://www.rsdb.net/ Probably refers to the Portuguese word for slave pens or barracks "baracoons". Could also have meaning as a shortening of "raccoon", as raccoons have a tendency to steal. 2) From http://parlorsongs.com/insearch/coonsongs/coonsongs.asp The term coon, did not originally appear as a racial slur term for a Black American, though over a short period of time it evolved into that. In early minstrel songs, the "coon" was reference to a raccoon, whose meat was supposedly preferred by plantation slaves. In many cases, for unknowing composers, the term "coon" became entangled with the 'possum, also thought to be a preferred food source. Apparently, many composers were not very familiar with American wildlife and could not tell the difference. As a result, "coon" and "possum" were often used in the same context. 3) From http://www.reporter-news.com/1998/2002/texas/nick0306.html Glenn Linden, a professor at Southern Methodist University, said the term originated in the 1800s and may have been used to compare chasing slaves to hunting raccoons. And you know ... there probably are more. (All ignorant, all offensive.) Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:09:14 -0000 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? > I was just wondering everyone's opinion about why Joni and Bob Dylan > >never > became romantically involved???? They were obviously knew alot of the > >same > people and traveled to the same places......why no court and spark??? Court and Spark might just have been part of the problem. There's an interesting story in one of Dylan's biographies - (possibly Clinton Heylin's 'Behind the Shades', but I may have just made that up to make me look better) - about an evening the two of them spent together with their respective entourages in January 1974, the month both Court and Spark and Planet Waves were released. Dylan's hangers-on set the Master's new LP on the turntable; and, naturally, proceeded to praise it as a work of genius. Unfazed, Joni then put the needle down on her own latest effort.... to widespread indifference, most notably from Dylan himself. Of course, the story may be apocryphal, but the more you read about Dylan, the more sense you get of a mammoth ego that needs constant attention. For a strong-willed woman with an ego of her own, and a talent to match, it can't have been appealing (just look at what happened to Joan Baez - the Rolling Thunder revue was damaging for her in a way that it wasn't for Joni, because she and the Bobmeister had never been involved). Plus, having always been stuck with that patronising 'female Dylan' tag, it would have done Joni's credibility no favours; and it could have only ended in murder, as I think she herself has said. But you get the impression that each of them still has a wary respect for the other. (Even though Court and Spark is to Planet Waves what Blonde on Blonde is to Sunshine Superman.) You tend to hear it said that most people who have Blue in their record collection will have a corresponding Blood on the Tracks somewhere. Are most Joni Mitchell fans at least vague Bob Dylan fans too? Adam (Hello, I'm a fresher here, don't beat me up.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:20:58 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? In a message dated 12/5/2002 5:09:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, adammulvey@blueyonder.co.uk writes: > Are > most Joni Mitchell fans at least vague Bob Dylan fans too? > > Adam (Hello, I'm a fresher here, don't beat me up.) Most...probably. Certainly not all. I've grown to a much deeper appreciation of his body of work. And he put on a helluva show here in Greenville SC earlier this year! Welcome Adam...hope nobody beats you up. :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:22:32 -0500 From: vince Subject: the JMDL community chuty001 wrote: >A few posts cracking jokes about a fag in a statues hand which didn't seem >to bother anybody(made me uncomfortable) > given the significant members of this forum who are gay/lesbian, I think any comments about fags was responded to in a joking manner - I think it was Colin who indicated everyone who did comment on that was gay and he's right, to my recollection. >an insensitive review of the >audience at an Armatrading concert > I saw that whole conversation as a conversation in which people got a chance to have their consciousness raised (as we used to say, anyone remember?). > It seems ok to question if all Canadians are plain and unambitious or only >the ones who are kind enough to share there music with the rest of the >world.(all tongue in cheek of course and I don't think any harm was meant) > And I was perhaps one of the people that you refer to here... > Now It's smokers. Should I have read farther back into the archives. Is it normally this >Insensitive around here. > > > > In my experience this is an incredibly sensitive group of people - this is just about the greatest group of people that I know, very caring. A lot of folks have a long, long history together and sometimes the little banter is based in the absolute trust and confidence and knowledge that we have of one another. This is a most caring group - something happens to someone, there is immense support, on list and off list. As one of the members who happens to be gay, I see some of the joking that goes on amongst us is that which we would only do either in totally gay company or only with others we could trust, whom we knew were good folks. That is the case here, certainly. We have so many Canadians on the list, I think again it is the banter of the affectionate people, not of the insensitive. An example: I am Italian and at a ball game I keep score with total dedication. One of my friends, another Italian, was at a game with me and asked if I wanted something to eat and then said something like, "No I guess you can't eat, you are talking and keeping score and your hands are busy enough as it is." Between Italians, that is funny. From someone else, who is not making the joke about "talking with one's hands" from inside the community, it would be offensive and insensitive. And I think that for many of us here we see each other as "inside the community" so we can make the jokes from within that those within the community can make. And when someone does say something that rubs someone else wrong, the issue usually gets raised, discussed, and people learn. We are not all sweetness and light of course. If you ever saw Bob Ethyl Murphy's post to Bob Muller that said, "after we shake your hand, we wash ours" you'd think how rude. But for those of us who know what good friends they are and their senses of humor, we read it in that context. And we have had some major flame wars here at times, and nasty things were said. But that is also part of life as a community, unfortunate as it is. Whatever happens here, it almost always has the benefit of at least being real. And some of the political threads, as strong as they may be in terms of convictions and attitudes, reflect a strong community that can differ and discuss those differences, we are strong enough to do it, and not a lot of communities are. Most people here would go to great lengths as to avoid being insensitive. And when some insensitive, it does get called out and discussed. That is one of the great strengths of this community. (And when someone really gets out of line, they suddenly lose their ability to post.) I guess I do not experience this community as insensitive. I may be so dull that I miss it. But when something is said that does perhaps offend, as with the concert post, look how fast the conversation happened on that - nothing was allowed to stand. And I think everyone who took part in that conversation got a little more knowledge about the others. On the flip side, anyone who attacks someone in here is going to find that we band together to protect others from hurt. But given it all - I do think this is an incredibly caring and sensitive people, unique in the cyber world, which is why it so often has become not just cyber but real, as in JoniFests, miniJoniFests, the get-togethers that happen when Joni tours, the get togethers that happen when people travel - When I really need to talk, when I really need friends, it is amazing how often I come here first for I know that I will what I need. And I know a lot of others do too. The more time one spends with this community, the more like family it becomes. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:25:06 -0000 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: Re: Joni's smoking > You're suggesting a statue of Joni kneeling down, praying to God, with > blood all over her? Yes, that's a much better idea. The gall of these > people, suggesting that she hold a cigarette in her hand...:~} She's just an unfortunate member of that last generation to whom the little white poison stick still seemed glamorous, romantic and effortlessly cool. (Well, second-to-last generation. Well.... okay, it's still cool. But please God don't tell my mom, okay?) Adam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:27:28 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: jack's tour dates NJC mags wrote: >how about "our llivingroom", Woodbury, NJ? >magsnbrei >;-) actually, i was thinking something along similar lines! i hosted a pretty successful house concert this fall - and it was amazing! the sound of the room is wonderful, there's plenty of space, and getting an audience should be relatively easy since i had 70 satisfied people come last time. and if i can get michael, jack AND christina to come visit me, woohoo! i'm not committed to hosting another house concert - promotion is A LOT of work... but everyone wanted me to do another one and the thought is kinda exciting! so... hmm... - -yael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:33:26 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: amelias mary wrote: >Seriously: if the version of "Amelia" Byan's daughter liked so much was the >one Yael sang at Jonifest, 2002, then take it from one who was there: it was, >indeed, truly superlative. gosh, you guys must have been listening to something different than what i hear when i put on the jonifest cd!! :) but i am really grateful that people liked it - thanks muchly to michael paz for playing fantastic guitar. and thanks to bryan, bryan's amelia, and mary for the appreciation. amelia is one of my three favorite joni songs :) maybe next year i should do one of the other favorites... but there are so many favorites... joni = god. ok, speaking of music... has anyone here heard lynn miles? i don't remember reading about her here but i just got her album 'unravel' and i really like it. she's canadian too :) and she reminds me of a cross between jonatha brooke and shawn colvin. and i'm running the soundboard for her show at the Ark in Ann Arbor on sunday! (this may be my first "lead" experience on soundboard - so far i've been "second" tech person) the other NPs this month are: the great george harrison - all things must pass, and linda thompson's new album hugs to all, yael who is excited because she just got a new car today! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 22:56:19 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: the JMDL community chuty001 wrote: > > >A few posts cracking jokes about a fag in a statues hand > > which didn't seem to bother anybody(made me uncomfortable) Vince: > given the significant members of this forum who are > gay/lesbian, I think > any comments about fags was responded to in a joking manner Remember also that Colin is english, and that to us english folk a fag *is* definitely a cigarette first, and american slang for gay men a very distant second. Personally, I was amused by both interpretations :) - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:55:16 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni << About including a cigarette with Joni's statue, Colin wrote: I undertsand your point. however, i feel it would be dishonest to leaveit out. we cannot 'clean'people up and keep our integrity. like when they make films about real people and elave the bits 'they' don't like out. not good. >> This reminds me of a Jackson Pollack stamp issued by the US Postal Service a couple of years ago. The stamp's image came from a photograph of Pollack splashing paint on a canvas while smoking a cigarette. The cigarette was omitted for the stamp. Also, I think that if a cigarette *is* included in the sculpture of Joni, it should be rigged to emit smoke so the statue -- like Joni -- will always be surrounded by clouds! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:38:52 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: joni in stone, to smoke or not to smoke hey- i have to chime in to say that sure, joni smokes a lot, and she could be smoking as a statue... ...but it is joni as a musician not joni as a smoker who is an important figure in my life. i think its much more intuitive to have her with a guitar... actually i kind of have this image of a young joni playing a lap dulcimer, looking down at it, with her hair hanging down so that from some angles it obscures her face... her delicate fingers playing 'a case of you'... that's how i picture joni. - -yael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:00:08 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: joni tribute in boston hey all- my friend rosie told me there's gonna be a joni tribute concert at club passim on january 6th. if it were only a few days earlier i could have made it!! but i need to be back in ann arbor by then. grr. they asked her to do a song and she might be too late to take them up on it but she asked me if i could recommend a little-covered song that would suit her voice... i recommended marcie, blue motel room, cold blue steel... and electricity. i'm keeping my fingers crossed that she does it!! man, i'm jealous of folks who will get to see that show. why couldn't it be even two days earlier?! - -yael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 18:25:34 -0500 From: Subject: LAST CHANCE LOST Lately, a few of the posts I've sent have gone off into the ether -- and not appeared in the digest. Has this happened to anyone else? As for the statue of La Joni, how about as she appears (so glam) on the cover of DJRD? Cue the birds! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:30:42 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni About the cigarette/statue issue, Colin writes: << i see your point. however, i don't think it is quite the same thing. one didn't see him in public, all the time, with a needle in his hand. >> Reminds me of another story . . . Do you know that famous photograph of that famous cigar smoker, Winston Churchill? The one with NO cigar, in which he seems to be glaring into the camera, his hands perched on the chair's arms while he looks almost as if he's almost about to raise himseld from a sitting position? Legend has it that Karsh, the photographer, grabbed his cigar away just before snapping the photo. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:06:29 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: new Joni DVD = Diltz? Kate wrote: > the beginning of my dvd looks like a screen you'd have on your computer > because it says something like enter here...i wonder if it has some of the > little exploring places that you mentioned kakki, like the cdr...hmmm I'd love to know more about it because I'm DVD player-less (always the last to acquire the new technology ;-) I remember reading some raves about this DVD on another list but can't recall the details. It would be fanastic if it incorporated the aspects of the CD-r. The funny thing is that his old website was much the same - there were collages of photos which you would think were just "static" but if you clicked on the individual ones, it would take you all kinds of wonderful places. Start clicking around with it, Kate, and see where it takes you! ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 23:47:13 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni & Dylan, why didn't it ever happen?? > Are >most Joni Mitchell fans at least vague Bob Dylan fans too? > not this one. his voice is dreadful. to be fair tho, i don't like any male singers except for thre early Bowies and all the pet shop boys stuff bu that is for the music. > >Adam (Hello, I'm a fresher here, don't beat me up.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 23:49:59 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) Lori Fye wrote: >>Well, I'm an Eastern Nigerian Dwarf Goat !!! I don't even know what >>the hell that is. I guess nobody better sleep with me :~) >> >> > >Au contrare, Jimmy! My guess is that you do the goat dance very well. > having seen him with very very little on, i would think he does the goat dance very well too and if not i would teach him..... > >; ) > >Lori > >~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:48:31 -0700 From: Sarah Gibb Subject: Joni's statue and smoking Victor, I agree. Another point is that we want this statue to last a long time - for as long as bronze can last - and smoking may be viewed in the future as equivalent to a heroin addiction. So we'd be dating the statue if we included a cigarette, in such a way that it might be offensive to future generations. I used to work as an online smoking cessation counsellor. I have no idea how Joni Mitchell perceives her smoking. But I came to know many smokers her age who curse themselves daily for doing it, several of whom are on oxygen, all of whom are on medication for respiratory disease. I also knew two who died in their early 50s as a direct result of it. So to stick one in her hand would be almost an assault, in my opinion, a reminder of something she started when she was very young and perhaps wants to, but can't, get rid of. One of the ladies who died of smoking (through emphysema), at age 52, sent an email to her support group 2 days before she died. She knew she was dying. She asked them to write her name on a cigarette, to smoke it, enjoy it, and then to promise that was the last cigarette they would ever smoke. The day after she died, they all did exactly that, so she saved a few lives, though she lost her own. When you've encountered this kind of waste, you can't view smoking lightly. But whether the statue smokes won't be up to me. That'll be up to the artist, maybe in consultation with Joni Mitchell herself, if that can be arranged. Sarah Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:57:41 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > And I -- a non-smoker who regularly rants at my militant-smoker family > and who teaches my nieces (ages 3 and 1) that cigarettes are "YECK" -- > agree with Colin. Joni is Joni, cigarette and all. I also agree with > Les that it's tacky, but Joni without a cig would be less authentic. > But does that mean that a statue of Jerry Garcia should have him shooting up heroin? Both habits are equally "YECK" IMO except one is accepted and driven by society and one is underground and illegal. It reminds me of the Simpsons episode in which Marge Simpson is asked to paint a portrait of Mr.Burns. His despicable behaviour really turns her off on the whole idea until she sees the fragile, vulnerable Mr. Burns in the bathroom accidentally but then finds her inspiration to paint him as she has seen him, underneath his hard and cruel desmeanor. Perhaps this statue could be approached the same way, and attempt to capture the Joni inside. I have no problem imagining Joni without a cigarette and wouldn't even ever think about the fact that she smokes except that it is brought up here so often. Actually, I can't think of anyone I know that I envision with a cigarette every time I think about them. I have never ever smoked a cigarette myself and so I have an easy time imagining a world without them. Victor in Asheville NP: Nick Drake "The Way to Blue" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 23:58:32 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: the JMDL communitynjc >Remember also that Colin is english, and that to us english >folk a fag *is* definitely a cigarette first, > not only that we have a meatball dish called 'faggots'. Birds Eye had a huge billboeard campaign with the slogan 'take home some faggots tonight'. We didn't know about the usa slang then but an american friend visiting thought it was hilarious and stopped to photgraph the billboard. In case anyone is wondering, the reason americans call us faggots is because in the old days gays were put to death by being laid on a metal grill and having bunches of wood laid and burned under them. these bunches of wood are called faggots. nice one, huh? ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #545 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)