From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #544 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, December 5 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 544 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni Mitchell's Beside Herself [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Washington Post review [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni [dsk ] Joan Armatrading (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] porridge NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Joan Armatrading/Barry White NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: porridge NJC [colin ] "Rippin Off" [Cactustree78@aol.com] new Joni DVD = Diltz? ["Laurent Olszer" ] Jonifest 2003 deposits [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: Covers #35, Santa's got a brand new bag! [Jerry Notaro ] Re: NJC white sox fans [vince ] Re: Jack Neilson News [Mags N Brei ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #542 [Kardinel@aol.com] When It Rains, It Pours Joni (a tape of Amelias) ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] NJC letter from Santa ["kasey simpson" ] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni [sl.m@shaw.ca] A request (NJC) ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni [Jerry Notaro ] Re: new Joni DVD = Diltz? ["kakki" ] Re: Will Ashara please stand? njc [colin ] Edgar Allen Poe? [Deb Messling ] Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) [colin ] RE: Will Ashara please stand? njc ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: Will Ashara please stand? njc ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: NJC coon dog [colin ] RE: Will Ashara please stand? njc ["Lori Fye" several [songs] are >clumsily re-imagined. Case in point: "Woodstock" is slowed to a funereal >pace that subverts the original meaning and spirit of the song, replacing >fragile celebration with weary melancholy. Mitchell seems to distance >herself from the past, now singing, "I know we're stardust / I think we're >golden." Thirty-three years ago, she was more confident in her generation's >humanity. But isn't that exactly the point being made in the new version? The fragile celebration of our youth that was embodied by Woodstock *has* been replaced by the weary melancholy of life in these days of "high late capitalism" as James Taylor calls them. Seems to me like she nails it. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 04:23:16 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: > > Joni said she'd like to see a park bench with a figure of herself at one > end of it, so that people can sit next to her. I think a statue of Joni in her home town is a great idea! I imagine a realistic life-size figure of Joni playing guitar and sitting in the middle of a spiral shaped bench that wraps around her a few times, so that people can sit not only next to the Joni-figure but all around her, as though she's performing/telling a story. A hundred years from now that will show not only what she looked like but how her music flowed out and became an intimate part of people's lives, literally encircling some of us. Joni and her music are very straightforward so I think a life-like representation of her makes sense. I picture, and will sketch out ASAP: 1. Bronze figure facing west (so from midday to night the sun will shine directly on the figure's face -- seems fitting considering what a nightowl Joni is) or maybe southwest, facing LA 2. NO cigarette (Joni's addiction and romance with cigarettes isn't something to immortalize IMO) 3. Spiral bench of golden marble, maybe, with her name and chorus to Circle Game etched on the inside of spiral, starting from figure and working outward so it can be read as people walk out of the circle, and maybe music itself etched into top of bench (Circle Game because children are being taught that and it's sure to be sung 100 years from now; Hejira might work, too, not because it will ever be taught as a "folk" song but just because I like some of the lyrics so much.) 4. All in a big field of grass so it can be seen from afar, with a row of pine trees in a half circle in the back as shelter and contrast. Les, what's the big rush with getting sketches done? And, in your earlier message, were you referring to a poster design or sketches for the statue itself? Or a sketch that someone else would use on a poster? In general, what are the plans and projected timing for this project? It seems like it would take a long time to raise the thousands needed for an outdoor statue. In addition to the address to email sketches to, is there an address for general info? Or, not yet? Debra Shea NPIMH: we all come and go unknown each so deep and superficial... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:34:57 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Joan Armatrading (NJC) Pleased to hear Joan is popular on this list. Back in 1970something I was given a copy of her first album by a cousin-in-law who worked for Essex Music, her publishers, who said, "I think you'll like this". I did, very much. Not long after a friend Mo Foster, who played in UK band Affinity (who were signed to Ronnie Scott's Management, as was Joan), played a series of gigs at Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club on Frith Street playing bass in her band, followed by a UK tour. At the time Mo would regularly pop in to where I worked, over on Rathbone Place off Oxford Street, with wild tales of the road. I only found out in recent years that, before this, Joan had been in the London production of 'Hair' ( along with the likes of Elaine Paige, Sonja Kristina, and Beverly Baxter (Bev was in a vocal trio with Joan for a few months after 'Hair' and before her first album). I read somewhere that on a recent US tour, Joan started playing 'Willow' but stopped a few bars in when she noticed a guy in the front row on a cell phone. She stopped her band and asked the guy what he was doing!! The red-faced man said that his wife was ill in bed and couldn't make it to the concert but had asked him to phone her when Joan sang 'Willow'. She got a dedication and a phone performance of the song lying in bed [surrounded by tissues, I imagine]. PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:37:40 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: porridge NJC Muller wrote: >>Jonathon King - Free Man In Paris: Most famous for his hit "Everyone's Gone to the Moon", sounds like Davey Jones from The Monkees.<< Errr, now perhaps more famous in the UK for abusing young boys. He's currently in prison. Any covers by Gary Glitter, who's also doing porridge for similar offences? mike in bcn NP - Brad Meldhau Art of Trio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:11:40 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Joan Armatrading/Barry White NJC >>The poor guys, who probably bought both their ticket and their girlfriend's ticket,<< and what do you know about these guys and their girlfriends and their respective incomes which would allow you to make this absurd generalisation? mike in barcelona NPIMH 'Barefoot and Pregnant' by Joan Armatrading ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:45:58 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni >2. NO cigarette (Joni's addiction and romance with cigarettes isn't >something to immortalize IMO) > I undertsand your point. however, i feel it would be dishonest to leaveit out. we cannot 'clean'people up and keep our integrity. like when they make films about real people and elave the bits 'they' don't like out. not good. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:01:26 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: porridge NJC mike pritchard wrote: >Muller wrote: > > >>>Jonathon King - Free Man In Paris: Most famous for his hit "Everyone's Gone >>> >>> >to the Moon", sounds like Davey Jones from The Monkees.<< > >Errr, now perhaps more famous in the UK for abusing young boys. > not quite. he abused teenagers, 15 to 18. the age of consent is now 16. I am NOT suggesting the man is not a creep and that he did not abuse these youngsters. I just felt it was important to clarify. >He's currently >in prison. Any covers by Gary Glitter, who's also doing porridge for similar >offences? > Glitter is not in prison now. He was imprisoned for having indecent pictures of children his pc. He was not convicted of abusing a child. O fcourse tho his consumption of the pics means he was ivolved in the abuse whether he likes to think so or not. >mike in bcn >NP - Brad Meldhau Art of Trio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 06:09:11 -0500 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: "Rippin Off" Maybe that was a lil harsh didnt mean to offend I got a lil carried away for the record Joni didnt mention anything about her songs bein ripped off in the article..That was just my opinion...Sorry if i wasnt clear enough..I still think her BSN is cheesy...But my friend made me listen to Michael From Mountains and I like that so im just a wind bag dont mind me and excuse my negativity...***kevin**** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:53:31 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: new Joni DVD = Diltz? Hello and thanks for the replies regarding this Under the Covers DVD. I'm still a little confused: 1) you refer to a CD-rom or CD-R and the item I saw at the store is a DVD. 2) Kate said she saw it over a year ago, yet the jacket says it's a 2002 release. Also the price sticker at the store indicates this is a relatively recent item. So are you sure we're talking about the same DILTZ video? Thanks again. PS: Yes Leslie Olsher in Bob's new covers CD is my cousin, yet I agree with Bob's comments about her voice. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:34:06 EST From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2003 deposits Hi all you potential 2003 Festers! Surprisingly, I have very few deposits in so far for Jonifest 2003. I need to send in a rather sizeable deposit to Full Moon to hold our date for next year. If you are planning on attending, it would be great if I could have your $100.00 deposit in soon. (I'm hoping there are more than 5 people planning on attending next year!) :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:32:07 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Covers #35, Santa's got a brand new bag! SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > Caterina Valente - ..interesting bit o' Joni cover trivia, Caterina's son is none other than Eric van Aro, the singer of track # 9. Speaking of trivia, her brother is Sergio Franchi. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:05:14 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: NJC don't smoke the statue i remember that fiasco around the Ladies...the good news in that is they received a lot of great press/attention as a result.. I think the city of Toronto apologized and if Im not mistaken, they received some kind of award ? Torontonians, help me out. Mags, watching the snow come down ... looks like a snow globe out there only the snow keeps coming down ... chuty001 wrote:I live in a city where an evergreen decorated in tinsel is referred to as a holiday tree as to not offend anyone who doesn't do the Christmas thing. A city that cancelled the Barenaked ladies New years eve show because they thought their name was politically incorrect. In their own home town no less. It was to be at NPS where there is a statue of Winnie No cigar Politically in correct they made the artist get rid of it. The cigar not the statue. The city that paved paradise. DF You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:15:24 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: NJC white sox fans chuty001 wrote: >Here you got Billy Koch I've been following him since the minors. Real live >arm just about matured. I was at his first MLB game that he clocked 104 mph >incredible. > >DF > > > A baseball post in the JMDL, makes my day! Yes, we traded Foulke, Mark Johnson, and Joe Valentine for Billy Koch and 2 players to be named later, evidently they are not on the As 40-player roster. I am excited that Koch will be pitching for us, and what you say makes me feel even better. Are you a baseball fan, an As fan, or how it it you've been following him from the minors? What else can you tell me about him? In the MLB cyber world Sox and As fans get along very well because As fans are very classy. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:30:10 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Jack Neilson News how about "our llivingroom", Woodbury, NJ? magsnbrei ;-) Michael Paz wrote:Jack Neilson 3Here I Go Again2 CD Release Party Tipitina9s 501 Napoleon Av December 12, 2002 9pm Featuring: David Torkanowsky Beth Patterson Dave Easley Jay Dronge9 Christina Friis-Nielsen Michael Paz With Special Guests from Houma, Louisiana by way of Birmingham, Alabama Singer-Songwriter (and major pain in my ass) Gisele Hawkins The CD will begin shipping on Tuesday December 10. It will be check or money order only till we can get it set up with CD Baby etc. Advance orders can be ordered directly through me. CD's are $15 U.S> + $3 shipping and handling. Checks should be made out to Jack Neilson. Orders can be sent to: Michael Paz 17 Waverly Place Destrehan, La. 70047 They will ship starting Tuesday. Thanks to everyone for their support on this project over the last 16 months. Jack is eager to start touring so if anyone has any ideas about places in your area we are gonna start booking real soon. We got a cold call for a booking today to open for Big Daddy O on Jan 3 at Tipitina's. Should be interesting. I know of a few of you who will be here for the CD release, but the more the merrier. Peace Michael Paz Web site is planned and under construction. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:33:27 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #542 There is nothing in Iraq but oil. N. Korea has weapons but no oil so we are not interested.It's like we are willing to sacrifice our young people so we can drive SUV's. The whole thing is casting a darkness on the world. Maureen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:35:41 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: When It Rains, It Pours Joni (a tape of Amelias) Bryan Symes wrote: "Amelia my daughters birth date is 1-1-1999 the tradition of starting out each > (FunFriday a grand day of visiting Book Stores Milk Shakes for lunch Toy > Stores Disney movies Etc.Etc.Etc.) is listening to my Collection of 4 > Amelia's in the Trucks cassette player First up is Amelia sung by Harlap, > then Joni off of Hejira, Amelia sung by Victor Johnson and the Joni off S&L, > today she asked me to play Yael's version twice and told me its her favorite." Wow, Yael--you beat out Joni herself! And TWICE! ;-) Seriously: if the version of "Amelia" Byan's daughter liked so much was the one Yael sang at Jonifest, 2002, then take it from one who was there: it was, indeed, truly superlative. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:51:37 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: Judy/"Both Sides Now" Bryan wrote: "Having just read the W interview in full...please let's clarify: Joni didn't swipe at Judy, she swiped at Judy's too-sweet, sing-songy arrangement of BSN. As for "ripping off"...please! Joni's career was in large part launched by the covers that Judy and others did. That's certainly not a rip-off." Me now: I agree with Bryan that Joni's career got a huge jump-start thanks to the covers done by Judy Collins, Tom Rush, the late Dave Van Ronk and others in the mid-sixties. Judy, as the most commercially successful of this initial group, perhaps deserves the most heartfelt "thank you" from Joni fans. However, I remain discouraged that Judy's version of "BSN" is the only one that many people are familiar with, and the one many others regard as the "original" to judge other covers by. My own mother dutifully listened to a tape of a mature Joni singing "BSN" a couple of years back, but basically thought that Joni was mutilating her own song, because all my mother knew was Judy's sing-songy version. SIGH. But she did listen. Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:55:37 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: NJC letter from Santa I just wanted to share the news Kasey I regret to inform you that, effective immediately, I will no longer serve the States of Georgia, Florida, Virginia, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, Mississippi, Texas, and Arkansas on Christmas Eve. Due to the overwhelming current population of the earth, my contract was renegotiated by North American Fairies and Elves Local 209. As part of the new and better contract I also get longer breaks for milk and cookies so keep that in mind. However, I'm certain that your children will be in good hands with your local replacement, who happens to be my third cousin, Bubba Claus. His side of the family is from the South Pole. He shares my goal of delivering toys to all the good boys and girls; however, there are a few differences between us. Differences such as: 1. There is no danger of the Grinch stealing your presents from Bubba Claus. He has a gun rack on his sleigh and a bumper sticker that reads: "These toys insured by Smith and Wesson." 2. Instead of milk and cookies, Bubba Claus prefers that children leave an RC cola and pork rinds [or a moon pie] on the fireplace. And Bubba doesn't smoke a pipe. He dips a little snuff though, so please have an empty spit can handy. 3. Bubba Claus' sleigh is pulled by floppy-eared, flyin' coon dogs instead of reindeer. I made the mistake of loaning him a couple of my reindeer one time, and Blitzen's head now overlooks Bubba's fireplace. 4. You won't hear "On Comet, on Cupid, on Donner and Blitzen.." when Bubba Claus arrives. Instead, you'll hear, "On Earnhardt, on Andretti, on Elliott and Petty." 5. " Ho, Ho, Ho!" has been replaced by "Yee Haw!" And you also are likely to hear Bubba's elves respond, "I her'd dat!" 6. As required by Southern highway laws, Bubba Claus' sleigh does have a Yosemite Sam safety triangle on the back with the words "Back Off." 7. The usual Christmas movie classics such as "Miracle on 34th Street" and "It's a Wonderful Life" will not be shown in your negotiated viewing area. Instead, you'll see "Boss Hogg Saves Christmas" and "Smokey and the Bandit IV" featuring Burt Reynolds as Bubba Claus and dozens of state patrol cars crashing into each other. And Finally, 8. Bubba Claus doesn't wear a belt. If I were you, I'd make sure you, the wife, and the kids turn the other way when he bends over to put presents under the tree. Sincerely Yours, Santa ClausGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:58:18 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni Debra, I like your ideas a lot, especially the spiral staircase/bench. And I agree about the smoking. it is her trademark but that's not a good thing IMO either. I'm going to pass your email to a couple of the artists who've written in, if that's okay with you. The general address for information is BesideHerself@shaw.ca. We envisage having to raise at least $50,000. We have no time plan at present as it's too early in the project to say how it'll take us to raise that. The rush for a sketch is that we're looking for an artist to design a campaign poster for us, and we'd like to include a sketch of the statue, or at least an early idea of it, so people can see what they're donating to. Best, Sarah At 4:23 AM -0500 12/05/2002, dsk wrote: >sl.m@shaw.ca wrote: >> >> Joni said she'd like to see a park bench with a figure of herself at one >> end of it, so that people can sit next to her. > >I think a statue of Joni in her home town is a great idea! > >I imagine a realistic life-size figure of Joni playing guitar and >sitting in the middle of a spiral shaped bench that wraps around her a >few times, so that people can sit not only next to the Joni-figure but >all around her, as though she's performing/telling a story. A hundred >years from now that will show not only what she looked like but how her >music flowed out and became an intimate part of people's lives, >literally encircling some of us. > >Joni and her music are very straightforward so I think a life-like >representation of her makes sense. I picture, and will sketch out ASAP: >1. Bronze figure facing west (so from midday to night the sun will shine >directly on the figure's face -- seems fitting considering what a >nightowl Joni is) or maybe southwest, facing LA >2. NO cigarette (Joni's addiction and romance with cigarettes isn't >something to immortalize IMO) >3. Spiral bench of golden marble, maybe, with her name and chorus to >Circle Game etched on the inside of spiral, starting from figure and >working outward so it can be read as people walk out of the circle, and >maybe music itself etched into top of bench (Circle Game because >children are being taught that and it's sure to be sung 100 years from >now; Hejira might work, too, not because it will ever be taught as a >"folk" song but just because I like some of the lyrics so much.) >4. All in a big field of grass so it can be seen from afar, with a row >of pine trees in a half circle in the back as shelter and contrast. > >Les, what's the big rush with getting sketches done? And, in your >earlier message, were you referring to a poster design or sketches for >the statue itself? Or a sketch that someone else would use on a poster? > >In general, what are the plans and projected timing for this project? It >seems like it would take a long time to raise the thousands needed for >an outdoor statue. In addition to the address to email sketches to, is >there an address for general info? Or, not yet? > >Debra Shea > >NPIMH: we all come and go unknown each so deep and superficial... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:02:21 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: A request (NJC) If anyone I know might be able to meet this particular request, it's probably someone on this list. And the request is: does anyone have a tape of Warren Zevon's 10/30/02 appearance on the David Letterman show? Zevon was the only guest, as has been discussed here before, and the show was basically a farewell. I watched that night, but couldn't get my VCR set up with a blank quickly enough to tape it. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I've got nothing to trade, but I'll owe you one! Will send or reimburse for tape, and cover postage. Thanks, Mary P. P.S. What was it that I wrote yesterday about technically imperfect voices? There's another one. But 2000's "Life'll Kill Ya" is one of the best CD's I've heard for a while, if rendered incredibly poignant now due to WZ's current circumstances. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 07:14:52 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) I'm a monkey. This is absolutely not a surprise, especially since kids in grade school used to call me "the missing link." Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:16:11 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) I'm a camel. That's one hump, not two! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:24:56 -0600 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) a tiger! and as the site says.... <> be warned! ;o) cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 07:39:13 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni Debra wrote: > 2. NO cigarette (Joni's addiction and romance with cigarettes isn't > something to immortalize IMO) Colin replied: > I undertsand your point. however, i feel it would be dishonest to > leaveit out. we cannot 'clean'people up and keep our integrity. like > when they make films about real people and elave the bits 'they > don't like out. not good. And I -- a non-smoker who regularly rants at my militant-smoker family and who teaches my nieces (ages 3 and 1) that cigarettes are "YECK" -- agree with Colin. Joni is Joni, cigarette and all. I also agree with Les that it's tacky, but Joni without a cig would be less authentic. I do foresee the thing being broken off, though. Perhaps it should reside in an ashtray, with only the filter protruding slightly. I also like Kate's idea of being able to put a lit cigarette in Joni's hand. Then it's simply an option and not a permanent endorsement of smoking. Debra, I LOVE all the rest of your ideas!! Especially the facing west/southwest concept. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:41:47 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) a koala... Victor, a hopeless romantic NP: Nick Drake "Time Has Told Me"...the perfect music for wintertime - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:54:21 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) I'm a night owl baby ;-) You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:57:41 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > And I -- a non-smoker who regularly rants at my militant-smoker family > and who teaches my nieces (ages 3 and 1) that cigarettes are "YECK" -- > agree with Colin. Joni is Joni, cigarette and all. I also agree with > Les that it's tacky, but Joni without a cig would be less authentic. > But does that mean that a statue of Jerry Garcia should have him shooting up heroin? Both habits are equally "YECK" IMO except one is accepted and driven by society and one is underground and illegal. It reminds me of the Simpsons episode in which Marge Simpson is asked to paint a portrait of Mr.Burns. His despicable behaviour really turns her off on the whole idea until she sees the fragile, vulnerable Mr. Burns in the bathroom accidentally but then finds her inspiration to paint him as she has seen him, underneath his hard and cruel desmeanor. Perhaps this statue could be approached the same way, and attempt to capture the Joni inside. I have no problem imagining Joni without a cigarette and wouldn't even ever think about the fact that she smokes except that it is brought up here so often. Actually, I can't think of anyone I know that I envision with a cigarette every time I think about them. I have never ever smoked a cigarette myself and so I have an easy time imagining a world without them. Victor in Asheville NP: Nick Drake "The Way to Blue" - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:03:47 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: porridge NJC In a message dated 12/5/2002 4:37:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, ink08@hotmail.com writes: > Errr, now perhaps more famous in the UK for abusing young > boys. He's currently in prison. Thanks for the crime blotter update, Mike. I guess NOW he wishes he truly was a Free Man in Paris! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:57:53 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: a white-assed deer In a message dated 12/5/2002 12:22:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, ewwt@juno.com writes: > I picture Wally Breeze weeping for joy in heaven listening > to this one. Hey, maybe that's HIM playing the harp in "Refuge"! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:10:48 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: A request (NJC) In a message dated 12/5/2002 10:02:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, blckcrow@chorus.net writes: > But 2000's "Life'll Kill Ya" is one of the best CD's > I've heard for a while, if rendered incredibly poignant now > due to WZ's > current circumstances. Really? No disrespect to Warren, I admire him greatly, but this CD was one of the WORST I'd heard in a long time. Not so much his voice, as I'm a Waits fan and can deal with rasps. I thought the songs were weak as a whole. And to this day I don't understand why "My Sh*t's F*cked Up" wasn't a hit! ;~) Different strokes I guess... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:11:57 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > But does that mean that a statue of Jerry Garcia should have him > shooting up heroin? Good point, Victor. > I have no problem imagining Joni without a cigarette and wouldn't > even ever think about the fact that she smokes except that it is > brought up here so often. I can imagine Joni without a cig, but I have to think back to the LOTC years to do that, even though I know she smoked back then. When I saw her at "A Day In The Garden" in Bethel, though, she smoked on stage almost non-stop. And that's the image that sticks in my mind. > Actually, I can't think of anyone I know that I envision with a > cigarette every time I think about them. Oh, I can think of people. Several friends and relatives. In fact, for some reason people who barely know me often ask me if I want a cigarette, or if I've just stopped smoking. (Yes, when I was 18.) Apparently there's something about me that suggests to them that I should be puffing away ... Lori (now 44) ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:12:54 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Jack Neilson News(njc) Congratulations! God willing, I'll be making a similiar announcement in March! I would love to be there but will have to experience this evening vicariously. I'd ask you to keep Cindy and Giselle out of trouble but then I'm probably asking the wrong person. Victor in Asheville > > > The CD will begin shipping on Tuesday December 10. It will be > check or money order only till we can get it set up with CD Baby etc. - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:20:25 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni Sorry. I'm not with you on this one. After she goes, should we edit all references to smoking from her lyrics? Art is art. It is not a recommendation of behavior or lifestyle. Since so many of Joni's images of herself refer to her smoking, to outright reject that image is too PC for me. Thank God for the American Library Association, or our libraries would look like a Golden Book outlet. Jerry np: Joni - Empty Try Another Lori Fye wrote: > > But does that mean that a statue of Jerry Garcia should have him > > shooting up heroin? > > Good point, Victor. > > > I have no problem imagining Joni without a cigarette and wouldn't > > even ever think about the fact that she smokes except that it is > > brought up here so often. > > I can imagine Joni without a cig, but I have to think back to the LOTC > years to do that, even though I know she smoked back then. When I saw > her at "A Day In The Garden" in Bethel, though, she smoked on stage > almost non-stop. And that's the image that sticks in my mind. > > > Actually, I can't think of anyone I know that I envision with a > > cigarette every time I think about them. > > Oh, I can think of people. Several friends and relatives. In fact, > for some reason people who barely know me often ask me if I want a > cigarette, or if I've just stopped smoking. (Yes, when I was 18.) > Apparently there's something about me that suggests to them that I > should be puffing away ... > > Lori > (now 44) > > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:23:2 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni(njc) In fact, > for some reason people who barely know me often ask me if I want a > cigarette, or if I've just stopped smoking. (Yes, when I was 18.) > Apparently there's something about me that suggests to them that I > should be puffing away ... Maybe they have a romantized image of you puffing away...like James Dean in an old black and white movie. I do sense that there is somewhat of an allure to lighting up and smoking. Even the hobbits in Tolkien have a love for smoking tobacco(speaking of which I wonder if they'll allude to that at all in the next movie coming up.) I wonder if that was always true of cigarette smoking...how was it thought of in the very beginning when the first cigarette was smoked. Was it always fashionable or was that something that has slowly developed over the years? And I wonder if as anti smoking sentiments grow stronger and more widespread, if the romantic image of smoking will just grow stronger as well? Victor in Asheville(who actually spends half of his time in Atlanta these days) NP: Nick Drake "Saturday Sun" - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:31:22 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni (njc) > Maybe they have a romantized image of you puffing away...like James > Dean in an old black and white movie. If I wore a leather jacket and my hair short, maybe I could see that. ; ) > And I wonder if as anti smoking sentiments grow stronger and more > widespread, if the romantic image of smoking will just grow stronger > as well? god, I hope not. This is how it works for me: I see a good looking person and think to myself, "Hmm ..." Then I see said person with a cig and I think, "Damn. Too bad." It's a TOTAL turn-off. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:32:38 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) Ah hem ... Tiger?! Role play, bondage, it's time to get kinky. You're passionate, energetic, raunchy and sometimes noisy! Now that just doesn't sound like me at all! ;-P Peace, Susan Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:37:16 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni Since so many of Joni's images > of herself refer to her smoking, to outright reject that image is too PC > for me. Thank God for the American Library Association, or our libraries > would look like a Golden Book outlet. Actually, I envisioned a statue of her skating away on a river though that is only one image of several gazzillion possibilities. Or how about a naked statue looking out onto the ocean? Now that would be kind of silly. But in the same way, I see her smoking as just one facet of her personality, despite all her references, and it wasn't even clear to me that she was such a constant smoker until recently in the past few years. In my mind its not an issue of PC (if it was just that I would say go right ahead) but just that I have several different images of Joni, from the 18 year old just starting out to the woman she is now and I simply don't see her smoking habit as an inherent part of herself, the being that is Joni Mitchell. Victor in Asheville - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:39:34 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) "I'm a tiger when I want love, But I'm a snake when we disagree" Ian Anderson "Bungle in the Jungle" > > Ah hem ... Tiger?! > Role play, bondage, it's time to get kinky. You're passionate, energetic, raunchy and sometimes > noisy! > - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 11:43:22 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni In that Joni herself has painted so many pictures that are on and contained in her albums that show her with a cigarette, I think a cigarette is a required part of the statute. She herself has made such a statement about it - - as opposed to Jerry Garica, who never put himself on an album cover or had inside album art showing him with a needle. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:45:06 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni >>> Or how about a naked statue looking out onto the ocean?>>> Considering the ocean is about 3000 to 4000 kilometers away in any direction from Saskatoon, maybe her "prop" should be binocculars? :-) I like the idea of a cigarette. It's just so Joni. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 08:52:39 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni > I simply don't see her smoking habit as an inherent part of > herself, the being that is Joni Mitchell. I think JONI sees smoking as an inherent part of her being, though. Afterall, this is a woman who manages to break the usual "no smoking" rules at various venues (ex., the TNT Tribute). And although I can't locate it in the JMDL Library (I'm not sure it's there), wasn't there an interview in which Joni mentioned that an Indian or shaman told her that her smoking keeps her "grounded" or keeps her "from disappearing"? (Does anyone else remember this?) For some reason, I think Joni would be offended if her statue did not include a cigarette. Maybe I'm wrong, but she does want it to be a true likeness, and I think that means "warts" and all. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:22:06 EST From: MEedits@aol.com Subject: Mermaid Cafe postings I am a writer researching life in the Matala caves during the late 1960s and early 70s and would like to contact Yvonne Whiteman, Richard Titlebaum and Jack Bechtold for more information on their experiences. I hope to hear from you! Many thanks for your helpful postings, Melissa Eskridge Slaymaker -- MEedits@aol.com Knoxville, TN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 12:22:21 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni Covers real good for free! As per usual, I've got a couple copies of Covers #35 to give away to some lucky JMDL'er! Since we have so many newbies, I'll explain how this works: Send me an e-mail with a guess of a song on one of Joni's albums, be sure and tell me the song AND album title, especially now with T'log there are several songs that appear on more than one! Example: "All I Want - Blue" If you need some ideas: http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/index.cfm Whoever comes closest to the one that I've already picked will win a copy of "Covers, #35 AND a copy of The Steve Klink Trio's "Places to Come From, Places to Go" Jazz tribute to Joni released this year. I'll also give a 2nd place Covers 35 CD away, so your chances to be a winner are doubled!! Remember too...just send your mail to me & not the list. I'll stop the contest Sunday night at midnight, and announce winners on Monday morning. Might make a great stocking stuffer or a gift to that someone who has everything...they DON'T have one of these! :~) Bob NP: Shawn, "Everybody Wants To Paint My Picture" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:32:00 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) Oh Gee, and I'm a Kolha.......a tiger would kill me. Ah hem ... Tiger?! Role play, bondage, it's time to get kinky. You're passionate, energetic, raunchy and sometimes noisy! Now that just doesn't sound like me at all! ;-P Peace, Susan Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.comGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:14:13 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Will Ashara please stand? I think for some of the new people on the list (myself included) it would be great to read a synopsis of what a JoniFest is all about, having never been to one myself. It sounds fabulous, but I'd love to know more, and I'm sure others would too. Where is it going to be in 2003? What happens at JoniFest? Is there singing? Dancing? Eating? Inquiring Joni fans want to know! - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:18:16 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: new Joni DVD = Diltz? Laurent, I can see that it would sound confusing. There have been three different incarnations of "Under The Covers" - the first was the CD-r which came out in around '96. Based on interest in the CD-r, Diltz and Gary Burden were encouraged to create an Under The Covers kind of rock documentary for PBS. That was later available as a video. The DVD is the next generation of UTC, so to speak ;-) Kakki > Hello and thanks for the replies regarding this Under the Covers DVD. I'm > still a little confused: 1) you refer to a CD-rom or CD-R and the item I saw > at the store is a DVD. 2) Kate said she saw it over a year ago, yet the jacket > says it's a 2002 release. Also the price sticker at the store indicates this > is a relatively recent item. > So are you sure we're talking about the same DILTZ video? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:27:13 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Will Ashara please stand? njc > What happens at JoniFest? Is there singing? Dancing? Eating? > lots of goat dancing, from what I have heard..... not a fest for the innocent or squeamish.... > >Inquiring Joni fans want to know! > >-Andrew >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:31:00 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Edgar Allen Poe? According to the W article: First off, she accuses Reprise executives of ignorance. Since they have never heard of, for example, Edgar Allan Poe or Job, they don't get the references in her lyrics. "And they think if they don't, nobody else will," she says. Does anybody recall any references to the works of Poe in Joni's lyrics? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/02 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:30:24 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: What kind of animal are you (very NJC) they said i was an owl...which i think is bollocks! maybe i didn't answr honestly! Mind you the questions didn't always haev an appropriate answer and were st8 oriented. Susan Guzzi wrote: >Ah hem ... Tiger?! >Role play, bondage, it's time to get kinky. You're passionate, energetic, raunchy and sometimes >noisy! > >Now that just doesn't sound like me at all! ;-P > >Peace, >Susan >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:32:26 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: Will Ashara please stand? njc Go to http://www.jmdl.com/jonifest/index.cfm for full descriptions and photos. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of colin Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 1:27 PM To: Little Bird Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Will Ashara please stand? njc > What happens at JoniFest? Is there singing? Dancing? Eating? > lots of goat dancing, from what I have heard..... not a fest for the innocent or squeamish.... > >Inquiring Joni fans want to know! > >-Andrew >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:32:32 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni >Debra, I LOVE all the rest of your ideas!! Especially the facing >west/southwest concept. > me too. I thought as I read it that it was a very creative idea. > >Lori > >~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:32:31 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Will Ashara please stand? njc > lots of goat dancing, from what I have heard..... > not a fest for the innocent or squeamish.... yes...but the goat dancing doesn't start till about 3 am down by the pool hall. Victor, co chairperson of the "HAHAHAHAHA" Jonifest Without Any Sleep training workshop - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:34:05 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Beside Herself - statue of Joni Victor Johnson wrote: >>And I -- a non-smoker who regularly rants at my militant-smoker family >>and who teaches my nieces (ages 3 and 1) that cigarettes are "YECK" -- >>agree with Colin. Joni is Joni, cigarette and all. I also agree with >>Les that it's tacky, but Joni without a cig would be less authentic. >> >> >> > >But does that mean that a statue of Jerry Garcia should have him shooting >up heroin? > i see your point. however, i don't think it is quite the same thing. one didn't see him in public, all the time, with a needle in his hand. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:41:17 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC coon dog >3. Bubba Claus' sleigh is pulled by floppy-eared, flyin' coon dogs instead >of reindeer. > for many years I could not believe that Americans still had a hunting dog called a Coon Dog. I thought 'how could they have a breed of dog specifically to hunt down black people'. Then of course I realised that coon was short for Raccoon. Whereas is in this country coon was an offensive word used by racists to describe black people . I realised this when the Maine Coon Cat became popular here. (still cannot undertsand why people would pay a lot of money for a pedigree cat that looks like a moggy) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 10:45:59 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: Will Ashara please stand? njc > Go to http://www.jmdl.com/jonifest/index.cfm for full descriptions and > photos. That's a good idea, Jerry, although we don't yet have the photos, et cetera, from Jonifest 2002 posted to the website. (Soon, though ... SOON.) Andrew, you might want to check out these links, if you haven't already: http://www.jmdl.com/jonifest/register/info.cfm http://www.fullmooncentral.com/ Hope to see you there! Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 13:49:30 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: Will Ashara please stand? njc But there are photos there from the other Jonifest and get togethers, including the fabulous Pazfest. Jerry - -----Original Message----- From: Lori Fye [mailto:lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 1:46 PM To: Jerry Notaro; 'Little Bird'; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Will Ashara please stand? njc > Go to http://www.jmdl.com/jonifest/index.cfm for full descriptions and > photos. That's a good idea, Jerry, although we don't yet have the photos, et cetera, from Jonifest 2002 posted to the website. (Soon, though ... SOON.) Andrew, you might want to check out these links, if you haven't already: http://www.jmdl.com/jonifest/register/info.cfm http://www.fullmooncentral.com/ Hope to see you there! Lori ~ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #544 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)