From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #536 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, December 2 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 536 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: three rings in the sun [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: A nice love song [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The three great sycophants [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: three rings in the sun [Little Bird ] Published Travelogue review [Little Bird ] A nice love song ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: critisism of joni & sexism? NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Beside herself [Murphycopy@aol.com] some thoughts on repeated listenings [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: three rings in the sun [Catherine McKay ] Travelogue packaging [Catherine McKay ] Re: some thoughts on repeated listenings [Little Bird ] Re: some thoughts on repeated listenings ["kakki" ] Joni's Interview in W ["kakki" ] Trouble Man [Little Bird ] Re: Before the Cock Crows, the Jock "Dunno's" [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Joni's Interview in W [Les Irvin ] Today in History: December 2 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: December 2 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: A nice love song [Randy Remote ] Re: travelogue due anticipation overload ! [Eric W Taylor ] T'log Billboard review [Randy Remote ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:42:54 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: three rings in the sun In a message dated 12/1/2002 7:04:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > As Ken said to me, watching what may as well be a three-ring circus of > retired beach junkies flaking, diving, jiggling in the sun. This is what has always worked for me, given the preceeding lines: Like it's her opera box All those Pagliacci summer frocks Otis is fiddling with the TV dial All he gets are cartoons and reruns She taps her glass with an emery file Watching three rings in the sun The "Pagliacci" (the opera clown) reference setting the circus scene, and the "three ring" lyric continuing the thought. But like you say, there ain't no right or wrong... Bob NP: The Yale Spizzwinks, "The Circle Game" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:46:57 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: A nice love song In a message dated 12/1/2002 5:50:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > and that is part of being in love and of loving someone over time. it > isn't ll roses. it gorws and matures. you learn to accpe the > imperfections-in both of you! > That's why Jericho gets my vote as one of the best love songs ever...but it's probably not appropriate for what this dude is looking for, so I'll say "Love" as well. After all, if it is indeed for a wedding, this passage of scripture gets used a lot, and what is Joni's song other than a paraphrase of the scripture? Bob NP: Madeline McaNeil, "Michael From Mountains" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:48:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The three great sycophants In a message dated 12/1/2002 3:00:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > Joni's fans are people who like great art and are patient enough to reflect > upon it, regardless of gender, sexual orientation or race. > > Don't you think? > > That's an excellent way of putting it, Andrew...wouldn't it be cool if JONI realized it! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:14:40 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: three rings in the sun The reason I brought up the astronomical explanation is because one of the listers told me he once heard a weather report for Miami stating that the three rings in the sun would be clearly visible that day, which made him think of O&M immediately. Maybe it's a southern Florida thing? - -Andrew SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 12/1/2002 7:04:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > As Ken said to me, watching what may as well be a three-ring circus of > retired beach junkies flaking, diving, jiggling in the sun. This is what has always worked for me, given the preceeding lines: Like it's her opera box All those Pagliacci summer frocks Otis is fiddling with the TV dial All he gets are cartoons and reruns She taps her glass with an emery file Watching three rings in the sun The "Pagliacci" (the opera clown) reference setting the circus scene, and the "three ring" lyric continuing the thought. But like you say, there ain't no right or wrong... Bob NP: The Yale Spizzwinks, "The Circle Game" Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 17:19:18 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Published Travelogue review Another favourable one from a Canadian site: www.canoe.ca/jam I can't imagine why ANYONE would want an orchestral version of Big Yellow Taxi or Raised on Robbery! If anyone could do it, though, it's Joni. Some artists know how to make an entrance. Joni Mitchell knows how to make an exit. The famously prickly singer-songwriter claims her latest album Travelogue is her swan song from the odious swamp that the music business has become. Well, we don't know about all that. But we can tell you that the mercurial Ms. Mitchell sure does throw herself a swank going-away soiree. This beautifully packaged two-CD set follows Joni as she relives some of the highlights of her career, delivering 22 of her personal favourites with the help of crack players like sax legend Wayne Shorter, pianist Herbie Hancock and an orchestra conducted by Vince Mendoza (whose baton also graced her 2000 covers album Both Sides Now). Naturally, Joni's favourites might not be the same as yours -- while Woodstock and The Circle Game make appearances, Travelogue ignores seemingly obvious picks like Big Yellow Taxi, Raised on Robbery, Help Me and Both Sides Now in favour of relative obscurities such as Otis and Marlena. Still, Mitchell's exquisite voice (which has descended over the decades from a brash soprano to a smoky alto) and Mendoza's rich arrangements (which run the gamut from the lush orchestral landscape of Wild Things Run Fast's Love to the moody jazz silhouettes of Mingus's God Must be a Boogie Man) just might convince you to add some of these to your own personal Mitchell best-of. Ultimately, whether you're glad to see Joni go or not, Travelogue sends her off in style. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:05:14 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: A nice love song night ride home >Hi--hoping you can help me.....I am not familiar with Joni Mitchell's >music--and I'm trying to find a nice, positive love song from Joni Mitchell. >Can you help suggest something?? It's a gift for a wedding present.....need >to get the lyrics.>> ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:05:15 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: critisism of joni & sexism? NJC >>Yes I'm sure the sexism exists in the industry and it's bull but a radio stations on air policy is hardly proof.<< i wrote that this policy was one example of sexism in the industry (of which radio is an important element), but i never said it was proof of anything... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:01:57 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: critisism of joni & sexism? NJC Sorry Kate poor choice of words on my part. > DF > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Bennett" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 9:05 PM > Subject: Re: critisism of joni & sexism? NJC > > > > >>Yes I'm sure the sexism exists in the industry and it's bull but a > > radio stations on air policy is hardly proof.<< > > > > i wrote that this policy was one example of sexism in the industry (of > which > > radio is an important element), but i never said it was proof of > anything... > > > > ******************************************** > > Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com > > Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs > > Over the Moon- > > "bringing the melancholy world of twilight > > to life almost like magic" All Music Guide > > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:03:18 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Beside herself Les writes: << I know there are many talented artists on this list and we've heard from none of you yet. >> I don't know if you received my suggestion that Joni be seated at a grand piano with room for someone to sit on the piano bench next to her. I also suggested (if the sculpture needs to be less "grand") that a sculptor create a piece which featured Joni sitting on the ground with a guitar or dulcimer (a back-to-the garden kinda thing). As for drawing my ideas, I do not have that talent. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 23:07:26 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: some thoughts on repeated listenings After an initial few listenings, putting it aside, and then going back to it, I find T to be a tremendous pleasure. In fact, I find it more enjoyable each time I hear it. I admire its audaciousness, its ambition and its generosity. And I'm very glad and grateful Joni decided to do it. I find the arrangements and orchestrations to be interesting, somewhat surprising and quite sympathetic to the individual worlds of each song. In some cases, Sex Kills and Sire of Sorrow in particular, the new settings bring the pieces to more exuberant life than the original recordings. And the vocal performances, to my ears, are superb. Has the voice changed? Sure. Have the changes impaired her emotional delivery? Not at all. (Although it does seem that at certain moments the orchestra surges to support the voice that in earlier times could achieve the power on its own.) In full disclosure, there are gaps in my Joni knowledge. The first record I listened to was LOTC, so I missed the first 2 albums. I followed her through the seventies. Missed the eighties. Resumed with NRH. So some of the songs on T are new to me, with no awareness of the original recordings to compare the new versions to. The presence of, to my ears, 'new' material is nice. But I still ask myself why she chose to do this. And I'm reminded of Dylan's two albums from the early nineties where he covered old blues and folk tunes, not including any new songs of his own. It seems those records were a means of getting back in touch with the traditions that truly inspired him. It worked. The next record, Time Out of Mind, was a masterpiece. I wonder if these most recent records of Joni's are a similar exercise. The traditions she returns to are not, of course, blues or folk, but the classic American popular songs of Porter, the Gershwins, Arlen, etc. And I think the purpose of the 'recontextualization' that the liner notes of T speak of is to place Mitchell firmly among the pantheon of great American songwriters mentioned above. The orchestrations remove the songs from the pop cultural crosscurrents of the 60s, 70s and 80s, and make us look at them in a new way. And the new way is as theater -- T has made me realize that as a composer and, especially, lyricist Joni is, with her best work, on a par with Sondheim. I'm surprised that no one has constructed a Broadway show around her work. Of course, no one can say whether this process of rediscovery on her part will ultimately result in remarkable new compositions. I hope so. If not, I'm glad she gave us this. PS. Why is there nothing from HOSL on T? This is a major puzzlement to me. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:45:13 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: three rings in the sun > Little Bird wrote: > > > From "Otis and Marlena" - "She taps her glass with > an emory file, > > watching three rings in the sun..." > > --- hell wrote: > > Or Marlena was sitting in the sun wearing three > rings on her hand, or she > was watching someone with three rings. Or someone > was juggling three rings > on the beach, or..... > > There are any number of interpretations of Joni's > lyrics, and any one of > them might be "right". Only Joni knows for sure, > but as she has said in the > past "Forget about what it means to me, what does it > mean to YOU?" ...or the three rings of a circus. Include those Pagliacci summer frocks, and you've got your clown. The Grand Parade (of cellulite jiggling to her golden pools.) Jiggling/juggling. Marlena watches from her balcony "like it's an opera box." Circus, opera, whatever, there's lots going on in the circus/opera of life. And lots of meaning in so many of Joni's songs. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 23:02:26 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Travelogue packaging I think the packaging for Travelogue has to be the best CD package design I've ever seen. There may be others out there, but I haven't seen them. The box itself that holds everything is sturdy but there's no plastic involved. The texture of the stock (whether it's the cardboard/paper or the ink used to print it) is smooth and silky. Then inside you've got a book of lyrics and, best of all, the hard-cover little book inside with a CD on each side and the wonderful pictures of Joni's paintings. I love the look of it and the feel of it. I guess I'm a bit of a packaging freak. My Dad worked in the corrugated paper industry where there's not a lot of artistic license (how many ways can you reinvent the beer carton?) but I remember how he had the plant's artists come up with a design for a bed for our dog and, when I was in Grade 1, a "TV" that I brought to school that the kid could sit inside and do a show for the class (singing, reciting, a puppet show, or whatever), so the kid could be "on TV." Since then, I have to say I admire a well-thought-out package, one that makes sense for what it contains, but that also has a sort of beauty on its own. Like, for example, those tetrahedron juice containers. There's a product you can buy in Canada, at least in the Toronto area, called "Lola". It's a fruit drink that you can either drink, or freeze and eat like a popsicle. The container is a tetrahedon and it's brilliant. The other kind of thing I love is boxes that open up and there's another inside, and another inside that. Like the Russian Matrushka dolls. Last Christmas, I gave my daughter a pair of earings but I wrapped the first box, inside another box, wrapped; then again, inside another box. It was just for fun and so she wouldn't guess (right away, that is) what it was. I just think the package for Travelogue, the design and the artwork and everything, are so amazing, that Joni (if it's her design and I think it's at least partly hers) should win some kind of award for that. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:06:00 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: some thoughts on repeated listenings I enjoyed your comments a lot, Bruce. See below for some additional thoughts: >>>I wonder if these most recent records of Joni's are a similar exercise. The traditions she returns to are not, of course, blues or folk, but the classic American popular songs of Porter, the Gershwins, Arlen, etc. And I think the purpose of the 'recontextualization' that the liner notes of T speak of is to place Mitchell firmly among the pantheon of great American songwriters mentioned above.>>> I think this is quite accurate. Joni grew up listening to classical music and a lot of jazz, so re-outfitting her songs in this new sound is probably to prove to herself and to others that she never really was "just a folk artist" and that her ideas and songs have always been more theatrical and cinematic in nature. Maybe next we'll get original songs with a mix of orchestrated tunes and stripped-down jazz numbers. I'm still waiting for a studio recording by Joni of "Trouble Man." >>>I'm surprised that no one has constructed a Broadway show around her work.>>> In Canada there have been two stage musicals based on the music of Joni Mitchell. The Prarie Theatre Exchange in Winnipeg did a show called "Joni Mitchell: River" and The Great Canadian Theatre Company in Ottawa did a musical called "Passion Play." Both plays were based on Joni's songs, thematically and musically. It's a matter of time before Broadway catches on, I'm sure... - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 23:08:00 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue packaging - njc Catherine writes: << I admire a well-thought-out package >> Me too! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 23:30:58 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Unbelievable In response to the approximate quote " She said if a white, straight man did get her music it's because he had been somehow screwed by the system, cheated of happiness and love, or probably suffers from consistent depression". Muller complains: > Yes, that was her 2000 interview on the CBC...pissed me off pretty good. I > thought I got her music just because I appreciated good talent. Then again, > > who among us hasn't been cheated by the system of lost in love? > > Bob > But once again, a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest, which included.... "She said that she had trouble believing that a powerful, white heterosexual male would truly understand her music, but I'm sure there are a few out there" Here she calls him unbelievable, and one of a few out there, and it's still not good enough for him ...... Well, I have no trouble thinking of myself as unbelievable ...:~) Bob S ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:33:41 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: JM website Is anyone else having difficulty accessing www.jonimitchell.com? I've been trying for months, both here at home, and using my work PC (networked, so much faster) with no success. It keeps telling me the server is down, or the connection has timed out :o( Any ideas? Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:35:18 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: some thoughts on repeated listenings Andrew, Joni recorded a wonderful "Trouble Man" for Kyle Eastwood's 1998 album "From There to Here." The album is mostly instrumental jazz but also includes Julia Fordham singing "In the Wee Small Hours" and Diana King on "Why Can't We Live Together." It's an excellent album and also features Peter Erskine, Billy Childs and Mark Isham. Kakki > I'm still waiting for a studio recording by Joni of > "Trouble Man." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:37:32 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Joni's Interview in W I finally got around to reading Joni's interview in W magazine this weekend and thought it was one of her most wonderful from both the interviewer and interviewee perspective. Is anyone currently transcribing this article? I may put up a few choice excerpts later when I have time. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:36:16 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Trouble Man Oh my god! I must have this! Tomorrow's after-work excursion solved in one click of the Inbox... THANKS! > Joni recorded a wonderful "Trouble Man" for Kyle > Eastwood's 1998 album > "From There to Here." Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 23:51:27 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Before the Cock Crows, the Jock "Dunno's" Kakki wrote "I remember e> ven a jock in college in whose collection I spotted Ladies of > The Canyon. > Of course, when I dug it out in front of a bunch of his friends, he claimed > it was his sister's album and that he didn't know how it got in his stuff > and promptly told me to take it away - haha. Still have it ;-) > Naughty girl - obviously, you never auditioned for the part of Elaine on Seinfeld (or you would have gotten it) :-) Bob S ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 23:59:32 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Joni's Interview in W At 12/1/2002 09:37 PM, kakki wrote: >I finally got around to reading Joni's interview in W magazine this weekend >and thought it was one of her most wonderful from both the interviewer and >interviewee perspective. Is anyone currently transcribing this article? I >may put up a few choice excerpts later when I have time. It's here for all to read in PDF format. http://www.jmdl.com/typing/0212w.pdf (Catherine McKay is currently typing it for the Library) Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 02:01:18 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: December 2 1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and others, performed today at the Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. 1980: Joni's "Shadows And Light" concert special aired on Showtime TV. 1987: Rolling Stone had a 20th anniversary TV special which aired on ABC and Joni talked at a few points during the program. Also shown was a bit of rare footage of Joni singing "Woodstock" on the Tom Jones Show in 1969. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 02:01:18 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: December 2 On December 2 the following item was published: 2001: "A Trip to the Past" - Los Angeles Times (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=697 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 23:27:47 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: A nice love song "All I Want" Les Irvin wrote: > Here's a question from an non-member that I thought I'd throw out to the > list. > Thanks, > Les > > >From: NyEv@aol.com > >Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 12:29:00 EST > > > >Hi--hoping you can help me.....I am not familiar with Joni Mitchell's > >music--and I'm trying to find a nice, positive love song from Joni Mitchell. > >Can you help suggest something?? It's a gift for a wedding present.....need > >to get the lyrics. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 02:37:28 -0500 From: Eric W Taylor Subject: Re: travelogue due anticipation overload ! Paul Headon wrote: << I am expecting Travelogue to arrive tomorrow I have already listened to the MP3 files. I think they are great but the backing musicians are a little muffled, but that will be sorted with the higher quality yes? >> Omygod Paul are YOU in for a total surprise (even if you don't have a good stereo, which helps)! The MP3 files played on my good PC speakers didn't prepare me for the overwhelming beauty of Travelogue. This could well be the finest album Joni has yet released. I've been listening to it every day for two weeks now and love it more every time I hear it. Slouching Toward Bethlehem is just AWESOME!!! Love & The Sire of Sorrow frame it in platinum. She should do a Gospel album sometime, hopefully including Passion Play. Disk 1 seems to me a commentary on the current world situation, appropriately beginning with Otis & Marlena (always among my fave Joni tunes) & ending with God Must be a Boogie Man (how appropriate). Woodstock is the weakest song on the CD IMHO & For The Roses takes several listens to begin to grasp. Disk 2 is flawless! Be Cool finally gets the orchestration it deserves; Wally would weep uncontrollably over Refuge of the Roads; Joni's voice has never sounded better on Chineese Cafe & I finally LOVE The Last Time I Saw Richard (a song that has bored me for decades). WHY aren't more people talking about the stunning packaging??? I have never seen anything like it! & the Quicktime video tour of Joni's latest paintings on disk 1 is the coolest thing I have ever seen!!! As I've long maintained, Joni Mitchell is the greatest artist of the 20th Century (& now the 21st Century). SIQUOMB~~~~~~~~ ET NP: Travelogue ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 23:36:49 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: T'log Billboard review Billboard Nov 30,2002 "Noteworthy" section The basic concept for this two-disc set is compelling. 1995 Billboard Century Award Honoree Joni Mitchell revisits 22 songs from her rich catalog, rerecording them with a 70-piece orchestra, a 13 person choir, and a backing band that includes keyboardist Herbie Hancock and saxophonist Wayne Shorter. In this light, songs like "For The Roses" (from the 1972 album of the same name) and "Sex Kills" (from the 10-year old Turbulent Indigo) become even more epic and dramatic. At the same time, a somberness prevails throughout much of Travelouge. And while this isn't a bad thing, it requires active-not passive-listening. Of course, hardcore Mitchell fans wouldn't have it any other way. Other noteworthy gems include "Hejira," "God Must Be A Boogie Man," and "Otis and Marlena." ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #536 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)