From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #534 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, December 1 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 534 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Today in Joni Smoking History: November 27 ["Heather" ] Re: calling mr. kratzman... ["mack watson-bush" ] Joni's 80s music [Little Bird ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #367 [StDoherty@aol.com] Re: Criticism - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: CRITICISM - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Goldie's "Carey" [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Goldie's "Carey" [Murphycopy@aol.com] Today in History: December 1 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: December 1 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:31:51 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Today in Joni Smoking History: November 27 PRICELESS!! Thank you Bob! Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Murphycopy@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 11:34 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Today in Joni Smoking History: November 27 1952: Nine-year-old Roberta Joan Anderson buys her first pack of Pell Mell cigarettes and notices that the smoke looks like angel hair 1962: Becomes first Canadian woman ever unanimously voted Miss Winston/Salem 1967: Confused and unable to afford cigarettes, Joni accidentally marries Chuck Mitchell 1979: Presents Georgia O'Keefe with two cartons of Virginia Slims Menthol and a lovely cow skull ashtray 1983: Meets Lakota chief, extends thanks to all Native Americans for tobacco 1992: Accidentally puts out three cigarettes on greedy Guatemalan maid 1998: Tough California smoking ban takes effect, Joni blames record companies and all younger performers 2000: Booed off stage during finale of the Stop Smoking Now or Die/2000 benefit concert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:52:41 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Drawing --- chuty001 wrote: > For anyone interested here's a link to one of my > drawings let me know what > you think. I'll leave it up for the week end. Thanks > DF > > http://www.geocities.com/thatstrangesite/Drawing-Joni1-1.jpg You *drew* that? I'm impressed! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:12:24 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: calling mr. kratzman... I can't possibly pass this one up. mtotzke wrote: she has written some lyrics unworthy of her great talent? First of all, how could that be, since she wrote them? MAN makes me shudder: > "I was scared / I thought / Oh--I hope he can care-- / > I sure hope I can care / I hope we can really care / And > share woman to man." > This from a woman who wrote: "Now I am surf rising / > Now parched ribs of sand at his side" ??? Sometimes the subtlety of words can be just as powerful as the convoluted ones, so to write. And if I know Joan, she meant them exactly the way that she wrote them. And remember--she thought "Oh, I hope he can care." Sounds pretty darn logical to me. I can almost feel the lack of breath in her voice (her mind) as she gasps. Now, if this woman or anyone else is having spontaneous thoughts such as the more complicated lyric, then I have to worry about that. > > DED > Though I think the THREE GREAT is a flawed > masterpiece (again, the production), this drives > me mad: "Artifice, brutality and innocence / > Artifice and innocence." Huh? What happened to > "brutality"? Yes, a masterpiece. From start to finish and flawed, I think not! I love the production. I love it!!!!!!!!!!!! > FICTION and TAX FREE: Cliche after cliche after cliche. Unbelievable. Is life not a cliche'? Are the daily events in which we live cliche'? Of course they are. Masterpieces? Oh, yes. How one mind could put those emotions on paper and then into music is astounding, incredible, fascinating, and unbelievable. I am simply awed each time I listen to them. They both evoke as much emotion in me as she has put there for me. Understanding, light, anger, fear, love?, hate, darkness, etc. It goes on and on and on. Driving into the soul, waking me up, letting me see. Damnit, Joan. I love you. > > ETHIOPIA: Unfortunately marred by "Famine > phantoms at the garden gate." > This piece is pure perfection. > My problem with DED overall is that Joni is > often writing GENERALLY -- when her > great strength is writing SPECIFICS. You > know? And I want to yell: "Get off the couch, > Joni, turn off the boob tube and get out there > in the world. You're not OBSERVING." Plus, > I really miss her descriptions of the natural > world--always so beautiful. This is absolutely absurd. Off of the boob tube? I must ascertain that it is you that is not observing. This album is visionary. Amazed at how it could be applied to now and it was written years ago, and it still fits. As for observation, I do believe you should do this, not Joni. 'fiction of the boob tube', she wrote. This album has even surpassed the big three, for me, from beginning to end. > > Thank God for IMPOSSIBLE (but lose > the synth, please) and LUCKY GIRL. Again, perfection. (impossible dreamer) and Lucky Girl is a fine tune, finely done. > > CMIARS The only problem I have with this album is that I simply cannot hear Joni. > NRH > WINDFALL: Beneath you, Joni. I thought you > didn't want to bore us with songs about > "rich people's problems." Could you do one ounce as well? This woman is a genius, musically, lyrically. Study would suit the issue as there is obviously great misunderstanding here. BORDERLINE > (which I find a bit of a bore, I'm > afraid): "You snipe so steady / You > snub so snide-- / So ripe and ready / > To diminish and deride!" A little > illiteration goes a long way. Again, are you kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!A lyric for the ages. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:57:55 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Drawing In a message dated 11/30/2002 4:42:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, chuty001@hotmail.com writes: > let me know what > you think. Yo DF, that drawing is THE BOMB! No wonder you posted the link, I'd be proud of that one too. Very nice work. Now get a design for Joni on the piano bench to that committee! Bob NP: Annika Fehling, "Twisted" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:05:01 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Goldie's "Carey" In a message dated 11/30/2002 6:15:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, christi@dsr.kvl.dk writes: > But she does chose to vary them once in a while like in some of the > reinterpretations on T'log. Oh to be sure...I was talking specifically about "Matala Moon"...matter of fact I think the ONLY time she's sung 'he drank & womanized' on ROTR was on the record. Every live version I have has her singing 'a drunk with sages' eyes'. Anyway, she has a great history of revising her lyrics, which is cool thing #4,765 about her. > ..I promise you, this guy I know looks > excactly like George Clooney!). Lucky guy! I've been told I look like DeNiro, which I take as a compliment...:~) Bob NP: Dane van Nater, "Night Ride Home" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:12:36 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: calling mr. kratzman... Mack writes: > Sometimes the subtlety of words can be just as powerful as the convoluted > ones, so to write. And > if I know Joan, she meant them exactly the way that she wrote them. That's a good point, Mack...I mean, how about: "I made my baby cry, I made my baby say goodbye" That could be a Brill building lyric on some throwaway pop ditty, but we all know where it comes from & it's brilliant and heartbreaking. Sometimes there's an honesty in the simplicity that doesn't require a lot of verbal dressing. And I'm the first to admit that with HOSL/Hejira/DJRD she raised the bar so high that not even she can come near it, let alone anyone else. By the same token, the original post definitely had some "right on" comments regarding the songs from WTRF onward. Joni ain't flawless, and even she admits that she had a difficult time putting words on the Klein melodies because they were much more choppy than she was used to. Bob NP: Tom Rush, "Urge For Going" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:39:11 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #533 - the 'late' Etta? And isn't the late, divine Etta J represented? Did I miss something? Did Etta die? Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:40:33 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: talk to me! NJC hi all you lovelies! bored at 11:45 pm EST on saturday night? come talk to me in the jmdl chat room and help me decide which car i should buy. :) www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm - -yael ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:14:30 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni's 80s music I'm sure this has been talked to death on this list, but I just wanted to interject a few thoughts on Joni's much-maligned work in the '80s. First of all, I'll say that I'm thankful for any and all material by Joni Mitchell. Even if I don't love it all, I'm glad it exists. Her work in the '80s is controversial to most. Critics either ignored it or tore it to shreds - only a handful actually gave favourable reviews of Dog Eat Dog, for instance. Wild Things Run Fast and Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm fared much better. Even Joni has some misgivings about her 80s work: her difficulty with Thomas Dolby, some trouble with Klein's melodies, as Bob mentioned, and a general bitterness about "the decade of greed" that tainted much of her poetry. I've always said that Joni Mitchell and the 80s just didn't mix - at least thematically. But I think she proved herself to be an ingenius chameleon in the 80s. Contrast Dog Eat Dog with Blue and you will understand Joni's fearlessness in all artistic matters. She was never afraid to change. Wild Things Run Fast is my least favourite Joni Mitchell album, but not because it's an 80s album, only because I don't relate to it, personally. Nothing will ever change that fact - I just don't "feel" that album, and that's okay. Having said that, I can appreciate it from afar and see what she was going for. I'm not sure she achieved it, but it yielded some great individual tracks, the most wonderful being Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody. Thank god for that song! Dog Eat Dog is growing on me. I hated it at first and thought it was a really shoddy album, overtly technological with lyrics that were slack, at best. But there is enormous subtlety and magic in some of those songs, in the music, in the voice, in the lyrics. Good Friends, Fiction, Dog Eat Dog and Ethiopia are brilliant, in my opinion. No one in the 80s examined the 80s quite so literally or so harshly. Most bands were too concerned with what hair colour to use and which method was best in shrinking their already skintight acid-washed jeans. So, in some ways, Dog Eat Dog was ahead of its time, albeit a little earnest in its drive to sound like a product of the 80s. Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm is a little difficult for me to grasp, rather like the actuality of the album title - - it fades away before I can really take it all in and process it. It's a little scattered, I think, but no less inspiring in parts. I love My Secret Place, Lakota, Cool Water, The Beat of Black Wings and A Bird That Whistles. She over did it a bit with the guest artists but if anything it goes to show she has the kind of clout to lure such diverse musicians as Peter Gabriel, Billy Idol and Willie Nelson her way. And, why not? The results were okay in most instances, excellent in others. Joni is no more perfect than you or I and she will produce, and has produced, some misfires. But the fact that she so courageously explores any genre with total devotion and abandon is the key to her greatness - or one of the keys, at least. She threw herself into her 80s work with as much focus as she did with Blue or Hejira or Court & Spark, it's just the end result may not have been what her fans expected or wanted. Too bad for the fans - Joni will do as she pleases and that's her right. It's up to us to keep up and make sense of it. Joni's work in the 80s - not fantastic, but oh-so fearless! - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 00:30:12 EST From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #367 In a message dated 12/1/2002 12:15:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:40:35 -0500 > From: > Subject: TRIBUTE > > My guess is that La Joni herself > is holding back the tribute album. > She seems to be heavily involved. > Probably a good idea -- since the > Canadian tribute album of a > few years ago (which she > dissed publicly) was DREADFUL > Opps .. I missed this. This wasn't just a few years ago - wasn't it more like a decade ago? Anyway . what's the story on this. I think I know the CD - and althoug there are some clinkers - there's some decent songs here. Please tell me what Joni had to say. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 01:14:46 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Criticism - njc Vince writes: << Life is for learning.... >> "Knowledge is good." --Faber College --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 01:17:12 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: CRITICISM - njc Chuty writes: << I think my 2cents has been used up. >> Yes, plus Muller also wants blanks and postage. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 01:20:29 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Goldie's "Carey" My nemesis writes: << I promise you, this guy I know looks excactly like George Clooney! >> HA! LIke I've never heard that before. XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 01:40:06 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Goldie's "Carey" Muller writes: << I've been told I look like DeNiro, which I take as a compliment...:~) >> I think they were saying, de nada, Bob. De nada. Nothing. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 02:00:03 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: December 1 1969: Joni performed at the Worcester Polytechnic Institute 1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and others, performed today at the Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 02:00:03 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: December 1 On December 1 the following items were published: 1985: "Joni Mitchell" - Chicago Tribune (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=65 1996: "The Ambivalent Hall of Famer" - New York Times (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=228 - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #534 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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