From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #526 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 26 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 526 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #524 - smoking, singing, truth, etc. ["kakki" ] anthropomorphism NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing [Deb Messling ] RE: Joni never inhaled [Lazyasz@aol.com] Jonifest 2003 [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing ["Victor Johnson" ] Sunday November 24, 2002 The Music Report Philadelphia Inquirer Tom Moon's review of Travelogue two stars [] Scott price! ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Joni never inhaled, njc now really ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] T'log: A non-JMDLer's opinion ["Lori Fye" ] NJC Beck ["Sybil Skelton" ] RE: NJC Beck ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Early Joni on TV [Ken ] Re: NJC Beck [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC Beck [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Travelogue - Public Service Announcement [Merk54@aol.com] hejira ["Mark Connely" ] Chrissie Hynde interview NJC [Deb Messling ] Travelogue advertised [Gertus@aol.com] Re: "It's comin' on Christmas" (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: George Harrison (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: awww, njc now [Randy Remote ] RE: Joni never inhaled ["Maggie McNally" ] Travelogue from Sicily [] Travelogue Review Scotland On Sunday - Album Of The Week ["Moni Kellerman] Open Mike [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni never inhaled - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] NJC Re: Joni never inhaled [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Carly Simon bares her soul (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Carly Simon bares her soul (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Mendoza & Blade [arid@geneva-link.ch] Re: Travelogue Through Time, njc now really ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: never inhaled - njc ["patrick leader" ] "Joni bewildered by plan....." [frasere@intergate.ca] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing [Randy Remote ] Re: "Joni bewildered by plan....." [FMYFL@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:28:07 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #524 - smoking, singing, truth, etc. Bryan, Now you are making me depressed! Why are you so sure it is all due to smoking? I know people who smoke as much as Joni who still have beautiful singing voices and I have a singer-songwriter friend who has never smoked, drank alcohol or done any other substances a day in his life who has lost his beautiful voice over the years and now slips into Tom Waits territory on occasion. There are so many other factors that can affect one's voice - illness, age, medication, etc. I just feel that blaming it all on smoking in Joni's case may be unfair to her when there is a lot of other evidence that there have been a number of other factors beyond her control which could have altered her voice. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:39:04 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing (njc) Bree wrote: > You smoke, Kakki?! Here I thought Joni was the only person in CA that > smoked. No, it's just me and Joni - and a couple of other SoCal jmdlers that will sneak a few under my bad influence. Funny how some of the people I hang out with most these days are from Africa, Australia and the East Coast - they smoke me under the table. It is a horrible habit of course - think I need another healthier vice to distract me from it - heeheehee. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:06:25 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Giving Vince Mendoza his due, part 1 of ?? was "wow, again." "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" writes: >In literature when an author gives human characteristics to an animal, >it's called anthropomorphism. Does anyone have a word for using instruments >to give sound to a thought? Yes, it's called "program [or 'programme'] music" -- music that tells a story or paints a picture -- as opposed to "absolute music" -- music written purely for its musical value. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:06:06 +0000 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Travelodge Hi All you JMDlers.... Some brief thoughts for today are ; 1. Is there such a thing as good art? (an old philosophical question but it seems to be the root of a lot of discussion). Is all expression worthwhile no matter what the consequences. 2.How can I agree with Vince and Kakki...but I do 3. If Joni is against a "society of specialists", then it makes sense that she would 'particiapate' in many of the arts. Not as a (specialist) poet not as a painter but as a complete human being. 4. Is Joni 'better' at some things than others? I muse over these as rhetorical questions...you dont need to feel compelled to answer them...unless you can help. Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:45:21 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: anthropomorphism NJC >>In literature when an author gives human characteristics to an animal, it's called an7thro7po7MOR7phism. << silly me, I thought it was anthropomorphism, but what do I know, I'm only a proofreader? mike in bcn NPIMH a track from the 70s (when Teddy Teeth was the prime minister of the uk) called 'Ascension Day' but I can't remember the name of the band. The 'b' side was called 'Teddy Teeth goes sailing' about the PM's habit of going sailing when the country was on the brink of collapse. I recall this because this morning in Spain I read of the President of Galicia taking a hunting trip when thousands of Galicians are heading for the welfare line because of the collapse of the shellfish industry due to the oil spill there last week. The NPIMH is longer than the mail: is this a record? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:20:53 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Could any singers on the list expound on this theory of improper vocal strain? It's something I've thought about as a possible cause for Joni's vocal problems, but I don't know anything about singing. For the record, I love the new album, but I do think the voice has deteriorated markedly even since BSN. Thin and dry, as some said. It reminds me of the voice on PWWAM. After that show, she rebounded (IMO), so maybe her voice comes and goes. At 09:37 PM 11/25/02 -0800, you wrote: > medical reasons for the change in her voice. I will agree >smoking is part of it but not all of it, no way. I still go with improper >vocal strain in her younger days - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 03:28:54 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: LA Times Review of T'log [short and sweet] Here is Robert Hilburn's brief take on T'log from the Los Angeles Times: Joni Mitchell "Travelogue" * * * [three out of four starts] Nonesuch The superb singer-songwriter shows us another side of her music in this two-disc set by revisiting some of her older tunes (including "For the Roses" and "Amelia") and more recent ones with the help of a 70-member orchestra and 20-voice choir. The added weight of the arrangements makes some of the tracks feel strained, but the overall effect is liberating and revealing. - -- Robert Hilburn http://www.calendarlive.com/music/pop/cl-ca-rack24nov24,0,2159069.story?coll =cl%2Dpop ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:10:01 EST From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: RE: Joni never inhaled Ummm...are we listening to the same Travelogue. Listen to YDFT or Slouching and you can easily her Joni taking her breaths. Damien Has anyone else noticed that all the breaths (inhalations) have been deleted from T'log? As an advertising copywriter, this is something I've done many times while mixing final voice for mostly older actors or voice-over talent who sort of wheeze or rattle during inhalation. I've never noticed it having been done in music, although I'm sure this isn't a first. Hack, hack. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:35:12 EST From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2003 For those of you planning on coming to Jonifest from outside the US, Paypal is now accepting multiple currencies, including Canadian Dollars (C$), Euros ( b,), Pounds Sterling (B#), and Japanese Yen (B%). Hopefully, this will make it easier for some of you. Go to: www.jonifest.com for more info. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:30:10 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Mack writes: << Sad, but obviously true, that the anti-smoking agenda has even reached here. >> Artists who have died of heroin overdoses don't get the level of criticism for their habits that Joni gets for her nicotine addiction. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 9:4:40 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing > Artists who have died of heroin overdoses don't get the level of criticism > for their habits that Joni gets for her nicotine addiction. Jerry should really kick off that heroin addiction. I'll bet he's still shooting up. His voice would sound so much better if he would just quit. Victor in Asheville - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:39:40 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: njc - Whitney Houston Yes, it's too bad about Whitney Houston. She seems to be caught up in something really messy - a bad marriage, drug addictions, poor eating habits. Something is going on there. She is going to be interviewed by Diane Sawyer on December 4th, the Wednesday edition of 20/20. Sawyer asks her some very pointed questions: "Does Bobby (Brown) beat you? Do you do cocaine? Are you anorexic?" Should be interesting... - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:44:24 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Sunday November 24, 2002 The Music Report Philadelphia Inquirer Tom Moon's review of Travelogue two stars On her 2000 tour, Joni Mitchell proved that her famously wind-swept melodies and torrential images could survive in an orchestral setting, with portentous oboes and strings swirling around her voice like gnats, and lines that had once been improvised incorporated into the score. The odd two-disc retrospective Travelogue, which includes a booklet with reproductions of Mitchell's striking paintings, is the studio version. It surrounds Mitchell with top-shelf talent - arranger Vince Mendoza, pianist Herbie Hancock, drummer Brian Blade, soprano saxophonist Wayne Shorter - and its art-house arrangements aim to expand the scope of such songs as "Trouble Child" and "Amelia". Doesn't happen though: It's the sense of immediacy, of a story unfolding before our eyes, that always made Mitchell such a riveting composer, and the minute she has to play chanteuse, she's just reading the lines. Still, there are glimmers of brilliance - the shuffling "You Dream Flat Tires" and the gorgeous landscape "Hejira". - -Tom Moon **************************************************************** ****please note, the above "opinions" are not mine!****makes me wonder if he even listened to the whole thing. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:52:33 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Scott price! What a great post on T'log..I thoroughly enjoyed it! Along with others, I hope Joni would somehow read your words? With many of my sentiments ..but I could not have expressed it so beautifully. Thanks for sharing! Bree (T'log fast becoming in the top five of my all-time favorite Joni) _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:02:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni never inhaled, njc now really No, I didn't notice it on T-log but now that you mention it... Yeah. Speaking of breathy girls, I'm really enjoying Tori Amos' "Boys For Pele". Wow, I love the way she breathes, and purrs, and whines, and growls. Recommended if you like that kind of thing. And I *do*. Lama Bob Murphy asked: >>>Has anyone else noticed that all the breaths (inhalations) have been deleted from T'log? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:36:30 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Guns (NJC) Kate wrote: >i got a 45 & liked the results so i hope it is accurate! You got the Smith & Wesson? Or the Colt? Both are fairly accurate if used properly - you should probably got down to the range and blast through a few clips to get used to it. >i struggled with choosing my favorite color though! Gosh, they're available in colors now? My, times have changed... it used to be gun metal or basic black. Accurately yours, - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:41:12 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: T'log: A non-JMDLer's opinion Began listening to T'log on Saturday evening with Mary, who has been a Joni fan since high school (graduating in 1975). We weren't even halfway through Disk 1 when Mary proclaimed, "I LOVE her voice now." And later: "I think this may be the best thing Joni has ever done." So ... there!! Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:16:42 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: NJC Beck Since this is a pretty eclectic group, I'm soliciting opinions (something I know there is no shortage of here). Has anyone gotten the new Beck album, and what do you think? I've been hearing this one song on the radio - "Lost Cause" - and I really like it. Is it kinda representative of the entire album? I only know what I've heard on the radio from Beck, and in the past I haven't particularly liked it, so I'm a little hesitant to jump in. Sybil _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:42:24 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: NJC Beck Has anyone gotten the new Beck album, > and what do you think? I've been hearing this one song on the radio - "Lost > Cause" - and I really like it. Is it kinda representative of the entire > album? I only know what I've heard on the radio from Beck, and in the past > I haven't particularly liked it, so I'm a little hesitant to jump in. I've had this album for several weeks and I love it. And I believe this album is very different from past Beck releases, which I have never gotten into either. I give it a big thumbs up! Victor in Asheville ps. And I know that Bob M, the evil jungle prince, would concur! - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:44:17 -0500 From: Ken Subject: Re: Early Joni on TV Thanks for this. It's listed as 9pm Eastern Time. Rick and Susan wrote: >Heads up, Canadian Listers! >CMT, the Canadian Country Music Station, (although they are branching out >from playing only country) is running a program this week (they're calling >it Bellbottom Week) which features half-hour BBC TV concerts recorded in the >early 70's. Tonight they featured James Taylor (I was spell-bound through >the whole thing), tomorrow is Neil Young, Wednesday is Elton John, and >Thursday is Joni. > >It's on at 6 p.m. Pacific Time with a repeat at 10 p.m. >(Which means if any eastern JT fans are still awake you can catch his >concert tonight.) > >Rick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:55:48 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Beck In a message dated 11/26/2002 11:16:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, sybilskelton@hotmail.com writes: > I only know what I've heard on the radio from Beck, and in the past > I haven't particularly liked it, so I'm a little hesitant > to jump in. JUMP JUMP JUMP!!!! I was never much of a Beck fan. The critics raved about Odelay, and I didn't care much for it. BUT "Sea Change" is a whole different animal. An entirely different style, as different as STAS is from Mingus. The whole CD flows almost as one song, in much the same way as "Dark Side of the Moon". And the production is also very similar to Radiohead's newer works, melodic and ambient and textural. Some of the vocals are a little mushy, but that's not anything I have any problem with. His use of strings & orchestration here is reminiscent of what "Madman Across The Water" sounded like. Pretty awesome. Look for this one ending up on LOTS of "Ten Best" lists, mine included. Bob NP: Cheap Trick, "Take Me, I'm Yours" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:57:14 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Beck In a message dated 11/26/2002 2:42:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > ps. And I know that Bob M, the evil jungle prince, would > concur! LOL! Great, a new nickname for me! (And only you & I know the story) ;~) Bob, who just concurred one post ago... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:02:16 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Travelogue - Public Service Announcement Travelogue... Play it often... Play it loud! This public service announcement has been brought to you by CBAT - the Citizens for a Better Appreciation of Travelogue. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:15:38 -0800 From: "Mark Connely" Subject: hejira The zoomy strings on T'logue's Hejira work so well! It is "now" in the way the original was "now", then. If you know what I mean. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:23:04 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Chrissie Hynde interview NJC In the latest Newsweek, the online edition at least, Chrisse Hynde echoes Joni in her criticism of today's music industry. Selected quotes: "And in my estimation, its all gone pretty pornographic. All the chicks look like porn stars.' "Its like, why do people get obese by eating junk food? Because its there, and people get brainwashed. They dont want to bebut thats what happens because of this media saturation. Everyones pushed their kids in front of the television because they need a break. Theyre struggling, so you know theyve got a diet of junk food and junk television and junk radio. " Do you think the media will dump on her for this? I bet they won't. BTW, no Joni content in this article, although apparently Chrissie has always been a big fan. Here's a link to the article. http://www.msnbc.com/news/838303.asp - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:33:04 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Travelogue advertised I'm impressed. Nonesuch have placed decent sized adverts for T'log in the UK national press today including reference to their website for samples. Let's hope they can shift some copies. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:33:08 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: "It's comin' on Christmas" (NJC) Paul wrote:- What albums are you giving for Chrimble, other than T...? Hi Paul, I'm not giving T to anyone as I can't think of anyone I know who would appreciate it, which is sad. I once gave TTT to a very good friend thinking she would love it but she didn't get it at all. My daughter always gives me a long list of CDs she wants for Christmas. So far John Squires, Robbie Williams and the Strokes head the list. More important, is my Christmas list! The new Bert Jansch album, "Edge of a Dream" is, inevitably on it, if I can bare to wait for Christmas, plus 2 Kathryn Williams albums - "Little Black Numbers" and the latest one. My daughter is working for Sanctuary records now so I've also been looking through their catalogue and picked out one or two little gems from the old Transatlantic and Castle labels. Pure nostalgia! Jacky NP God must be a Boogie Man (I think this is fast becoming my favourite from T'log. Sounds really fresh) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:33:09 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: George Harrison (NJC) "Looking for my Life" is another. By the way, could someone please explain the meaning of the verse from that song: "I never got any GCE's". Stood for General Certificate of Education when George "were a lad" and were the exams taken at age 16, otherwise known as O levels (Ordinary level). Those who did well and stayed on at school took A levels (advanced) in a much narrower range of subjects. Leaving school without any GCE's could and would have been interpreted as meaning you were a no-hoper but there were plenty of glorious exceptions to that idea. The system has now been replaced by GCSEs and AS levels for no great benefit so far as I can see. I'm not sure but "never got any" may be a peculiarly English expression or is used elsewhere? Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:36:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing You can do permanent damage to your voice if you use it improperly over a period of time - you could be straining while singing - but you could even cause damage if you use your talking voice improperly. Also frequent persistant coughing or clearing of the throat over time can cause damage. Kakki - is it you who said Joni had throat surgery? Do you know what it was for? On Joni's early recordings, I do not hear any vocal strain - her high notes are light and in her head voice where they should be. Performing live in large venues is a whole different ball game, though, and it's possible she did some damage in that way. But, I have no idea if that is the case. Jenny - --- Deb Messling wrote: > Could any singers on the list expound on this theory > of improper vocal > strain? It's something I've thought about as a > possible cause for Joni's > vocal problems, but I don't know anything about > singing. > > For the record, I love the new album, but I do think > the voice has > deteriorated markedly even since BSN. Thin and dry, > as some said. It > reminds me of the voice on PWWAM. After that show, > she rebounded (IMO), so > maybe her voice comes and goes. > > > > At 09:37 PM 11/25/02 -0800, you wrote: > > medical reasons for the change in her voice. I > will agree > >smoking is part of it but not all of it, no way. I > still go with improper > >vocal strain in her younger days > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deb Messling -^..^- > messling@enter.net > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system > (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release > Date: 11/13/02 Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:16:17 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Jenny wrote: > Kakki - is it you who said Joni had throat surgery? > Do you know what it was for? I think she had some kind of polyps in her throat. She told a story about it at the PWWAM taping. I'll see if I can find some cites to it later. > On Joni's early recordings, I do not hear any vocal > strain - her high notes are light and in her head > voice where they should be. Performing live in large > venues is a whole different ball game, though, and > it's possible she did some damage in that way. But, I > have no idea if that is the case. I have no idea, either, it's just a theory. I would also think that the strain and wear and tear would have come from performing live on so many tours. To my ears, her voice changed markedly starting as far back as the time from Court and Spark to Hissing. I knew a girl in high school who was training to be an opera singer. Because of improper training (according our music teacher at school) she suffered almost permanent damage to her voice while still a teenager and her aspirations for a singing career were over. He used to tell us about this as a cautionary tale in choosing vocal coaches. There is also the hormonal aspect - I've read how hormones affect the vocal chords of some women as they age. Not that they make the voice deeper - but there is some kind of shortening or other physiological affect on the vocal chords. There was also an interview with Linda Thompson posted here a few months back that spoke of her almost complete loss of voice from just that which has now been resolved by botox injections. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:04:02 -0000 From: "William" Subject: First's Travelogue From First Travel's daily newspaper 'METRO' CD Joni Mitchell: Travelogue **** Nonesuch This is a kind of best-of double album, but given Joni Mitchell's willingness to pad off down different musical paths at any opportunity, the title is appropriate. From the ever-wonderful Woodstock (its innate drama greatly benefitting from the 70-piece orchestra Mitchell has used for these re-recordings) to the delicate pluck of Be Cool, this is vintage Joni. Fans might yearn for new material (there hasn't been any since 1998), but apart from the moments when that huge band threatens to swamp Mitchell's expressive voice, this is a great compilation. Nina Caplan WtS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:47:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing There is also the hormonal aspect - I've read how hormones affect the vocal chords of some women as they age. Not that they make the voice deeper - but there is some kind of shortening or other physiological affect on the vocal chords. There was also an interview with Linda Thompson posted here a few months back that spoke of her almost complete loss of voice from just that which has now been resolved by botox injections> I would say this is definitely one of many factors in Joni's voice change. I have heard Joan Baez mention on a couple of occasions that she had to see a voice teacher and learn to sing all over again when she hit menopause. Jenny Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:52:05 +0000 From: "Mickey Morose" Subject: [none] Hi This is my first posting, my name's Mike and I live in england. I'd been reading the posts for a while but thought I'd wait until I had something m,eaningful to say about travelogue but - guess what - it still hasn't arrived. I'm grateful to whoever it ws on the list gave a link to cd-wow as the price of #12.99 seems unbeatable, but I've just had a message from them that they're out of stock and promising delivery within a few days. In a perverse way, I'm quite pleased they're out of stock as it might mean that a lot of peeople are ordering and to me not enough people appreciate enough about Joni and, like her, I get pretty pissed off with people talking about her as, for example, "one of the best female singer-songwriters". I mean, really!!! So I'm still listening at the moment to my one-disc cd of Shadows and Light - - what a bargain that was and incredibly underrated imho - fantastic versions of Amelia and Hejira from my favourite Joni album and the Mingus cuts sounding much warmer and "better" imo than on the original. My forst Joni album, purchased on its release when I was 17 (gave my age away there) was For The Roses which I still think is right up with her best, but for me her most under-rated album is Hissing of Summer Lawns, which absolutely blew me away when I first heard it and still has the capacity to surprise and shock and give new meanings almost every time I hear it. I did start to listen to the Nonesuch files of travelogue on the internet, but I was disapointed with the quality so gave up after Dawntreader, which sounded leaden and jaded to be honest so thought I'd wait for the actual cd wehich I'm sure won't sound so compressed and weedy (at least I hope not) I gather that most of you weren't very impressed with BSN but I love it - I can't get past Answer Me and A Case of You without crying, and while A Case of You is obviously great on Blue as well I actually prefer it in the context of BSN. Anyway, I'll let you know what I think of travelogue when (eventually) I get it. I had been hoping that Song for Sharon would be on it - I love everything about that song and think it would have fitted the theme and mood perfectly - but never mind, there's plenty else to enjoy and I'm particularly looking forward to Sire of Sorrow - my favourite 90's Joni song at the moment, and I'm interested in hearing the male antagonists mentioned and how these add to the song. Best of everything to everyone. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:50:34 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: awww, njc now "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote: > Hey Randy, > Welcome back from the shadows. :) Thanks, Lama, good to be back, I love y'all even when I'm being argumentative! More> > > You said, > >>>>>>>>>> > I just wonder what it would have sounded like with a different > collaborator, maybe Phillip Glass or ??? > >>>>>>>>>> > > Here's a preview of first 5 second of Phillip Glass'es arrangements of three > Joni tracks: > Track 1: > " > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do (Repeat for 4:15)" > > Track 2: > " > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do (Repeat for 6:10) > " > > On Track 3 he pulls out ALL of the stops: > "do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > beep > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do > do-do- doo-do (Repeat for 8:52)" Ha! and touche- >> > On another topic, I need your advice on vinyl. I'm thinking of buying a > used VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine. Is the latest thinking that machines > still make sense or, as Stereophile seems to suggest, just replacing my > Discwasher brush with a Disc Doctor brush is the thing to do. What do you > think? I have not used a machine, but my understanding is that the machines that employ a vacuum system are more effective than brushes. I still use the Discwasher, but if you are serious about vinyl, and have a high-end turntable/cartridge, maybe a machine is the way to go. RR NP-Dolly Parton "Stairway To Heaven" via bluegrass. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:07:26 -0500 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Joni never inhaled Bob, I couldn't disagree more. When I listened to it Friday night - start to finish, both discs - I listened not only in the dark (candlelight, Kate), but with headphones on. I was struck by the sound of her breathing in, found it painful to listen to. Don't get me wrong, I love her voice, don't fault the range, love the warmth and what she is doing with it, but I struggled for air when I listened to the way she sucked in the oxygen. My solution was to promise myself NOT to listen on headphones again. Will you eliminate the wheeze/rattle that this here middle-aged woman has when sucking in air while recording her voice-mail message at work, please? Thank you. Maggie > -----Original Message----- > From: Murphycopy@aol.com [mailto:Murphycopy@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 12:50 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Joni never inhaled > > > Has anyone else noticed that all the breaths (inhalations) > have been deleted > from T'log? As an advertising copywriter, this is something > I've done many > times while mixing final voice for mostly older actors or > voice-over talent > who sort of wheeze or rattle during inhalation. I've never > noticed it having > been done in music, although I'm sure this isn't a first. > > Hack, hack. > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:07:46 +0100 From: Subject: Travelogue from Sicily Dear friends, here is Travelogue arrived in Italy and in the little island of Sicily where I live in. I've listened the disc one and two into my car while a storm clouded my eyes. Little by little a light to make one'way through the darkness and the loneliness. It is so sweet. Angela ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:09:52 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: Travelogue Review Scotland On Sunday - Album Of The Week Source: http://www.scotlandonsunday.com/thereview.cfm?id=1307392002 ALBUM OF THE WEEK: Travelogue by Joni Mitchell Nonesuch 7559798172, #19.99 On tribute albums we marvel at those who reinterpret the work of the artist and mutter unpleasantries about the ones who slavishly clone the original. Joni Mitchell has wisely decided to save them all the bother and reinterpret herself , and what a wonderful job she has made of it. This has the sweep of Hollywood's golden era, with 'Slouching Towards Bethlehem' and 'The Sire Of Sorrow' more blinding than hitching down the road to Damascus. 'Hejira' was made for this kind of treatment, but the double album set's finest moments are probably the creative reworking of even more familiar songs such as 'Woodstock', 'The Last Time I Saw Richard' and 'The Circle Game'. The former is transformed from a eulogy to the last great act of 60s hippiedom into something more of a social documentation, blessed with musical hindsight. Another song that seems to have been subconsciously screaming out for this treatment is 'Sex Kills', which comes over all horny and on the prowl. Travelogue may symbolise journeying the length and breadth of Mitchell's career, but it also takes the listener past vistas never usually seen on the conventional pop and rock routes. And it is first class all the way. COLIN SOMERVILLE ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:13:54 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Open Mike Mike says: > I > gather that most of you weren't very impressed with BSN but > I love it Welcome, Mike! If you love BSN, then grab a hold of your socks because you're gonna be knocked ass over appetite by T'log! Of the good things I have to say about it, the main thing is how much of an improvement it is over BSN, which now sits unlistened to and retired on my shelf. And you're right about S&L...one of my favorite live recordings by anyone ever. But you only have the abridged single disc issue? Get thee to a shop, lad! (Although I guess I shouldn't call you "lad", having done the math you've got 2 years on me!) ;~) Anyway, hope you get T'log in your hands (and your ears) soon! Let us know what you think... Bob NP: Cheap Trick, "How Are You?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:18:24 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni never inhaled - njc Maggie asks: << Will you eliminate the wheeze/rattle that this here middle-aged woman has when sucking in air while recording her voice-mail message at work, please? >> I OBVIOUSLY don't hear it! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:14:06 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Joni never inhaled In a message dated 11/26/2002 2:07:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, mm@celebrityseries.org writes: > When I listened to it Friday night - > start to finish, both discs - I listened not only in the > dark > (candlelight, Kate), but with headphones on. Maggie, I also listened to it in the dark Friday night...I even kept my eyes shut... ...damn near hit a telephone pole! :~D Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:11:49 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Carly Simon bares her soul (NJC) ...and that's a pretty sexy Christmas outfit she has! :) http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Music/11/26/carly.simon/index.html - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:25:08 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Carly Simon bares her soul (NJC) In a message dated 11/26/2002 4:11:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, steve@psitech.com writes: > ...and that's a pretty sexy Christmas outfit she has! :) Yessiree, I'll meet her under the mistletoe ANY day...she has certainly aged better than JT who now looks like her Dad. He probably hasn't had all the tucks that she has though... And whattya think? I'll bet "River" is nowhere to be found on her Christmas CD! ;~) Bob NP: The Chieftains & Sissel, "Siuil A Run" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:30:38 +0100 From: arid@geneva-link.ch Subject: Mendoza & Blade Just to let you all know : About two weeks ago I bought the new Charlie Haden CD called American Dreams, with Michael Brecker as the main soloist, + Brad Meldau & Brian Blade. There's also a string orchestra, and two of the tunes were arranged and directed (and one of them composed) by Vince Mendoza. Nice CD, some of you may like it ! Alain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:41:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Travelogue Through Time, njc now really Isn't there a better way to put this, Paz? Shall we "workshop" this post? BTW, I heard Sir Paul McCartney on "Rockline", a syndicated radio interview show. Did you know that he and Heather (his daughter, not his wife) were on a TAXIWAY at JFK when they closed the airport on Sept 11th, 2001? I didn't. He said they saw smoke rising over Manhattan from the taxiway......... Anyway, when he was waiting to do his 911 song on one of the 911 Tribute shows, an up and coming young guitar player named Pete Townsendt came up and said, "Ooooh, you are a crazy coot! You're gonna 'workshop' a new song in front of 6 *MILLION* PEOPLE?!" wishing Mac had said, "You better/You better/you bet." Lama (still quite embarrassed by that birthday post, Paz) - --- Michael Paz wrote: > Great post Scott thanks a lot for sharing it's good > to see you uncloaked! > > Paz Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:49:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Giving Vince Mendoza his due, part 1 of ?? was "wow, again." Thanks, Fred. The other day you hinted that you think Mister Mendoza did some interesting things for TRAVELOGUE. Others have problems with the 'liscence' he took, creating "program music" rather than a reserved supporting score, implying that he created something akin to incidental music in a movie score (like using a slide whistle when Oliver and Hardy are doing slap stick). When you're ready, I'm keenly interested to know how this shakes down, in your brain, over time. Lama - --- FredNow@aol.com wrote: > "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" > writes: > > >In literature when an author gives human > characteristics to an animal, > >it's called anthropomorphism. Does anyone have a > word for using instruments > >to give sound to a thought? > > Yes, it's called "program [or 'programme'] music" -- > music that tells a story > or paints a picture -- as opposed to "absolute > music" -- music written purely > for its musical value. > > -Fred Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:56:42 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Mack writes: > > << Sad, but obviously true, that the anti-smoking > agenda has even reached > here. >> > > Artists who have died of heroin overdoses don't get > the level of criticism > for their habits that Joni gets for her nicotine > addiction. > Kinda pointless. They're dead. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:40:54 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing As we know - Everything comes and goes ... That said, I do believe everything - everyone has suggested has played a part in changing Joni's voice. I am a smoker and I do make some attempts at singing. I have always been a light smoker - until more recently - and with that my voice goes - it's real simple SMOKING PLAYS A PART. Now for the most part I am enjoying Joni's altered voice, I loved the old one as well. The part i don't like is the short hissing or weezing on a syllable, when it appears, she has the idea to take the note somewhere else or that she lacks some strength or power. Medication plays a part - age - so the one thing she could fix - IF she cared to would be the smoking. And again a voice coach, could also show her how to use what she's got, NOT TO TEACH HER HOW TO SING. They help with breathing and emitting as well. And finally Deb those highs she used to hit were awfully high even for her. So I would guess that vocal strain would probably be another factor in her altered voice. Funny early in life it's an exercise - later it's a strain! Just my 2 cents. See ya later must go get cigarettes! Peace, Susan NPIMH: k.d. Lang/Down ToMy Last Cigarette - --- Deb Messling wrote: > Could any singers on the list expound on this theory of improper vocal > strain? It's something I've thought about as a possible cause for Joni's > vocal problems, but I don't know anything about singing. > > For the record, I love the new album, but I do think the voice has > deteriorated markedly even since BSN. Thin and dry, as some said. It > reminds me of the voice on PWWAM. After that show, she rebounded (IMO), so > maybe her voice comes and goes. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:50:26 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] happy birthday jenny Happy Birthday Jenny! All the best to you in the coming year - it's been great meeting you this year. Here comes Jonifest - before you know it - see you there! Get that guy to give you T'log NOW! I only wish you were getting OLDER than - 33? GULP! Those were the days - enjoy them Jenny. And keep on singing! Peace, Susan Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:50:29 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: "It's comin' on Christmas" (NJC) Jacky wrote: > More important, is my Christmas list! > The new Bert Jansch album, "Edge of a > Dream" is, inevitably on it Funny you should mention Bert Jansch, Jacky. I just was thinking the other day about albums I've never owned - but felt like I did because friends played them so often - and I'm always amazed to find are not amongst my CDs when I go looking. Jack Orion for one. PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:57:33 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: NJC Roberts Birthday Robert is the youngest of our crew and today he's 3 1 more to go Mine tomorrow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:54:27 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: never inhaled - njc >Has anyone else noticed that all the breaths (inhalations) have >been deleted >from T'log? one of our clients is composer john corigliano, and one of his most successful symphonic pieces is a flute concerto called 'pied piper fantasy', written for the great irish flutist james galway. john had a tape of one performance, and he edited out all of galway's inhalations, without telling him, and sent it to him. james said he couldn't believe that he'd been able to play it that well without making noise inhaling. when they recorded the album, galway's inhales were silent. corigliano tricked him into believing he could do it. story just cracks me up. patrick np - t'log - love ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:05:59 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: "Joni bewildered by plan....." From today's Vancouver Sun: "Joni Mitchell bewildered by plan for a statue of her" Saskatoon: Joni Mitchell had yet to eat breakfast and shake the sleep from her head, but her humour and humility were thoroughly intact about the idea of a statue in Saskatoon's downtown to honour her. "I guess it would be a good place for birds to perch," she said. Mitchell was in the city for the weekend to spend time with her mother, Myrtle Anderson. Mitchell was raised in the city and got her musical start playing in coffee shops along funky Broadway Avenue. When asked about the statue idea, which went to city council in a letter last week, Mitchell teetered between being grateful and bewildered. "It's just such a strange question to be woken up to," she said. "It would be a true honour. It really would. But is this not something usually done post- mortem?" She succumbed to a moment of quiet vanity at the thought of what the statue could look like. "I would hope it could be a decent likeness," she said. "My face caricaturizes easily. I can tell from my fan drawings." The idea of a statue of the multi-talented artist was actually raised by a British Columbia man. Mark Salzl wrote to Saskatoon's city council about the possibility of commissioning the statue. He has been a Mitchell fan for many years and thought it only fitting the city recognize and celebrate her achievements. "She is surely one of the most famous daughters of the city. The city is even the subject of some of her songs," Salzl wrote. It is also the subject of her artwork. The Delta Bessborough Hotel appears in the background of her 1969 album cover for CLOUDS. Mitchell is in the foreground holding a prairie lily, Saskatchewan's official flower. "She's got stacks of trophies and awards," said Anderson. "But it's always nice to be recognized by your hometown." Best regards, Stephen in Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:05:39 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Voice coaches say that talking the 'wrong' way can be a major strain on the voice. Late into her career, Stevie Nicks had to learn not to talk in a gruff voice because it was ruining her singing voice, which is now better than ever. Besides coughing and throat clearing, (as Jenny said), they also say don't smoke. There is no way you can continually pull dry smoke across your vocal cords and not have it effect your voice. RR Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > You can do permanent damage to your voice if you use > it improperly over a period of time - you could be > straining while singing - but you could even cause > damage if you use your talking voice improperly. Also > frequent persistant coughing or clearing of the throat > over time can cause damage. > > --- Deb Messling wrote: > > Could any singers on the list expound on this theory > > of improper vocal > > strain? It's something I've thought about as a > > possible cause for Joni's > > vocal problems, but I don't know anything about > > singing. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:13:18 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: NJC noise between lines I saw Bobby Blue Bland once he liked to snort like a pig every time he took a breath. It was a little distracting. Baby(snort)I(Snort)Love(snort)You(snort,snort) DF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:19:02 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: "Joni bewildered by plan....." Stephen writes: > When asked about the statue idea, which went to city council in a letter > last > week, Mitchell teetered between being grateful and bewildered. > > I'm surprised she didn't say: "I am not some stone commission Like a statue in a park" Come in from the cold honey :~) Anyway, I hope they do a statue of her. She deserves it!!! Jimmy Jimmy ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #526 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)