From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #525 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 26 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 525 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Art criticism - why? (njc) [Michael Paz ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing ["kakki" ] Happy birthday boyz (njc) ["kakki" ] Re: The Dr. Phil Test (NJC) [Susan Guzzi ] Today's Library Links: November 26 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today in History: November 26 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #524 - smoking, singing, truth, etc. [BRYAN8847@aol] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Joni and Smoking [KJHSF@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:50:49 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Art criticism - why? (njc) I love it! Paz on 11/25/02 5:23 PM, Monafitz@aol.com at Monafitz@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/25/02 6:42:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, > michaelpazz@directvinternet.com writes: > > >> . It's great to have diversity and people liking >> different stuff. What is really a drag is when people put down other people >> for their dislikes or likes for that matter. > > Well, said Mr. Paz and worthy of coming out of lurkdom for. .. Put another > way.... Diversity makes for interesting characters....and life is made > interesting by the characters that we know in it. Cheers, Mona > > Mona L. Fitzgerald > monafitz@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:50:02 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Joni never inhaled Has anyone else noticed that all the breaths (inhalations) have been deleted from T'log? As an advertising copywriter, this is something I've done many times while mixing final voice for mostly older actors or voice-over talent who sort of wheeze or rattle during inhalation. I've never noticed it having been done in music, although I'm sure this isn't a first. Hack, hack. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:51:26 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Travelogue Through Time Great post Scott thanks a lot for sharing it's good to see you uncloaked! Paz on 11/25/02 4:15 PM, Scott Price at sp@olympus.net wrote: > Joni's latest album, Travelogue, has had my attention for a few days and it > will take several more for it to sink in. Like so many others here, I was > blown away by the packaging and spent at least an hour studying the book > and the CD visuals before delving into the music. > > Upon opening the book, I saw the image of Icarus and knew that we were > about to be taken on a journey up toward the sun. Also like Icarus, I knew > that at some point we'd crash back to earth, and it didn't take long before > the images of September 11 were bringing me back to the cold and still > unbelievable events of that day. Joni depicts the television news camera > images of the towers on fire, the faces in the smoke, and a president > bearing the weight of the catastrophe wrought by people whose motives are > unfathomable to most of us. A ghastly scenario was hinted at before in > "Slouching Toward Bethlehem," which foresaw a "blood dimmed tide loosed > upon the world," but who could have guessed it would be this horrendous? > Her painting of the flag of the United States being raised by firefighters > with the World Trade Center ruins in the background pays tribute to the > victims as well as the survivors and chillingly illustrates the lyrics: > "innocence is drowned in anarchy" while trying to comprehend the actions of > those who are "full of passion without mercy." > > The next several paintings seemingly accompany "Refuge of the Roads" which > is my all-time favorite Joni composition. The cross-country trip which > spawned the song and the album "Hejira" was just one of her life's > journeys, but exemplifies how she observes and captures the things one can > see as we go through life. Next up, to the lyrics from "Woodstock," and > "The Circle Game," we see pictures of children playing in the idyllic > setting and a portrait of Marlin, her grandson, who may be a couple of > generations removed but will soon enough find the circles of time passing > ever more quickly and will be dragging his feet to slow them down. > > After reading some reviews and previews of the album I was most pleasantly > surprised to find that this ravaged voice I had been hearing about was > actually sounding more youthful and strong that it had on the last project > (BSN). Joni has chopped off so many of the sustaining notes lately that it > sometimes seems that she is short of breath, but on several of the > "Travelogue" songs she belts it out and holds the notes and proves that > reports of her vocal deterioration are greatly exaggerated. The sopranic > innocence is gone but has been replaced by a highly-nuanced presentation > that colors the sonic palette with an ease that could only come from an > artist so supremely talented. The lack of Mitchell vocal overdubs (a > trademark throughout her career) is not missed due to the dramatic > flourishes of the orchestra and the featured players, especially Wayne > Shorter, whose expressive riffs help create these musical masterpieces. > With so many instruments in the orchestra and the arrangements which > quickly move between moody quiet passages to huge crescendos there are > abundant musical colors throughout. > > The songs are all-so-familiar to those of us who have played the older > albums for years. To re-work them all, with the new arrangements, was a > courageous move that will no doubt draw fire from critics who are content > with the old versions, but they give me a whole new appreciation for her > craft and also speak volumes for her ability as a songwriter. Only songs > with a deep and complex base, songs like "Judgement of the Moon and Stars," > "Slouching Towards Bethlehem," and "The Sire of Sorrow" could be given this > orchestral treatment and remain so cohesive and dramatic. Others, such as > "The Dawntreader" and "The Last Time I Saw Richard," show true creative > genius in their adaptations. > > Joni, I've been travelling this road with you for 30 years. We've seen many > of the same things, felt many of the same things, but you have the unique > ability to convey that which you see and feel to us through your music and > your art. "Travelogue" is a continuation as well as a review of the > journey, richly annotated and inspiring. Life may indeed be a circle game; > everything goes around and around, including your songs. But you show us > that as the cycle continues, there is still room to consider, to adapt, to > reinvent, and for that, I thank you. > > Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:55:29 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: JM mention on All Things Considered Vince writes: << Too bad I have no clue (how often that is true) about what was being said. >> It's all that damn rap you're listening to, VInce. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:59:31 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Art criticism - why? Paz writes: << absolutely was in mortal pain throughout the disco era. >> Funny . . . I was in moral ruin. XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:07:54 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC More new in town info Vince writes: << making them butlers and waitresses, or male and female prostitutes, for the JMDLers who attend the next JoniFest. >> Ho-hum. Been there, done that. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:12:56 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Dr. Phil Test (NJC) Kate writes: << i got a 45 & liked the results so i hope it is accurate! >> I got 800 on the verbal AND the math. I bet I can get in to Harvard with that. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:15:35 -0800 From: "Mark Connely" Subject: and it looks better with the e Judgement is spelled either way. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:37:49 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Warning - politically incorrect rant!! ;-) Mack wrote about the constant attribution to smoking as being at the root of all Joni's vocal "woes": > Balderdash. The only ones that would know that would be Joni herself and > her physician. Absolutely. Joni has also spoken about having surgery on her vocal chords about a decade ago, as I recall. She's lucky she can sing at all when you think of what such surgery did to Julie Andrews. > As a smoker, I would imagine Joan would not be interested in this > anti-smoking tripe than I am. Yes, Mack, she is similarly irked by the smoking lectures and they probably only make her more defiant. Joni's voice started changing a long time ago when she was too young, IMO, to attribute it all to the "ravages" of smoking. There are plenty of singers out there who also smoked liked chimneys for years and it never effected them much. Of course, Joni and none of us *should* be smoking - it's not a good thing - but there are plenty of other medical reasons for the change in her voice. I will agree smoking is part of it but not all of it, no way. I still go with improper vocal strain in her younger days, hormonal changes (sorry but it's a real thing and it really affects a significant number of female singers in middle age), throat surgery, and perhaps even some post-polio syndrome effects. > Then don't listen. Sad, but obviously true, that the anti-smoking agenda > has even reached here. But of course! ;-) I think her vocie is actually a bit better than a few years ago. To my ears, she is getting more inside the voice she has now rather than trying to strain for something else. I was amazed when I listened to the first song Otis and Marlena - to me her voice sounded exactly like it did way back in '77 on DJRD. Kakki, huffing and puffing! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:43:44 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: The Dr. Phil Test (NJC) Murphy confessed: > I got 800 on the verbal AND the math. I bet I can get in to Harvard with > that. So go on, you brilliant underachiever! LOL Kakki, just making it under the wire at an acceptable 48 ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:11:19 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Happy birthday boyz (njc) Happiest of birthdays to the Lama Dama and Brian Brei, two of the originals and long time survivors here on the list. Both sweet good guys - the stalwarts ;-) Thanks for your friendship, humor and sensitivity (it's a good thing) over the years. I cracked up today at work reading the headline on my default MSN page that it is also the Bush twins 21st birthday! Oh thank the lord ;-) Raising a martini glass or two to all of you tonight. Love, Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:11:23 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: The Dr. Phil Test (NJC) And you all wonder why I picked him out of the entire gene pool, to harvest my golden eggs!? Peace, Susan P.S. What the hell am I doing here at this hour?! Oh by the way 43 for me. - --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > I got 800 on the verbal AND the math. I bet I can get in to Harvard with > that. > > --Bob Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:17:40 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: November 26 On November 26 the following item was published: 1993: "Question" - USA Today (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=958 - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:17:40 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 26 1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and others, performed today at the Civic Center in Augusta, Maine. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:45:29 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #524 - smoking, singing, truth, etc. Then don't listen. Sad, but obviously true, that the anti-smoking agenda has even reached here. My purpose was not to say Joni is "wrong" for smoking or to deliver any kind of anti-smoking message. Whether she smokes is none of my business. My purpose was simply to point out the obvious, because most of us are ignoring it -- her voice has crashed and burned and the reason is obvious. The truth must be told, but, not to worry, I won't burden ya'll any more with the truth. And, as said as it is to think (believe me, I find Joni's decline heartbreaking) that I might stop listening and become yet another fan who "used to buy Joni Mitchell albums," it may in fact happen. Peace (which begins with truth), Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:46:44 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing >I think her vocie is actually a bit better than a few years ago. To my >ears, she is getting more inside the voice she has now rather than trying >to >strain for something else. I was amazed when I listened to the first song >Otis and Marlena - to me her voice sounded exactly like it did way back in >'77 on DJRD. Kakki, huffing and puffing! ;-) You smoke, Kakki?! Here I thought Joni was the only person in CA that smoked. smoke ..smoke that cigarette.. Bree..still digging T'log..wow.. the intro of Cherokee Louise..it is so gorgeous... _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:00:27 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Aging, smoking singing bryan >>Someone in her inner circle, if she listens to anyone, needs to level with her: time to stop smoking or stop singing. Or at least limit the singing to jazzy numbers she can smokily croon through. But even that won't be possible after another year or two of smoking. Listening to much of this new collection is painful, and not because of Mendoza's arrangements.<< well, i agree with you bryan, i want her to stop smoking too, because of the harm it must be doing to her health, but after all this time i doubt that will happen...but here is the irony...i love the sound of her voice...i am not in pain listening to her sing...it amazes me that people hear voices so differently.... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:56:46 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Joni and Smoking In regard to the damage having been done, I've read that the body begins to heal itself within days of quitting smoking. Sure there is permanent damage at this point, but I'm sure some of the deterioration could be reversed somewhat. Personally, I like the husk on her voice circa TI. And I don't mind the sound of her voice at all on T'LOG. The tempo of some of the tunes is more bothersome to me than her voice. And, totally off the subject--I'm not a fan by any means, but has anyone else noticed Whitney Houston lately? She looks and acts like she's smoking crack and it's kinda scary. Poor thing... Ken ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #525 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)