From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #524 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 26 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 524 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC More new in town info [Randy Remote ] Travelogue Through Time [Scott Price ] Re: NJC More new in town info [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: NJC More new in town info [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC More new in town info [vince ] Re: The Dr. Phil Test (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: For Annie Lennox fans - new song! [FredNow@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Women performers and ageing [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing ["mack watson-bush" <] Re: Art criticism - why? [Monafitz@aol.com] Re: NJC November 25th a year later ["Mark or Travis" ] Giving Vince Mendoza his due, part 1 of ?? was "wow, again." ["Jim L'Homm] Re: For Annie Lennox fans - new song! ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing ["chuty001" ] Winn-Dixie cold cut theives ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: awww, njc now ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] [Fwd: JM mention on All Things Considered] [vince ] Blaming Ashara? (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #522 unsubscribe ["karen monte"] Early Joni on TV [Rick and Susan ] Re: my take on T'log [Murphycopy@aol.com] Happy Fecking Birthday!!! [Michael Paz ] Re: Blaming Ashara? (NJC) [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:10:42 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: NJC More new in town info Hi Dead Fred- Welcome to Club Joni-you will find there are alot of artist/musician types like yourself here, as well as more than a few Canadians. Like Joe Dirt says-'Life is a Garden, Dig It!' chuty001 wrote: > I got a couple of E-mails asking for a little more info about my self. This > is one of the friendliest groups I've been in or it's the old know your enemy. > Time will tell. > I'm in Toronto Canada celebrating birthday week. I have a wife and 3 kids. We > all have birthdays between Nov16 and the 27. Not planned that's just the way > the cookie crumbles. > I'm a song writer, guitar player, portraitist, carpenter, drywaller, etc... > and earn a living fixing gym equipment and doing renovations on the side. All > the trades allow me to keep making music and drawing pictures with out having > to involve money. > I could go on like this for many years as you are sure to find out so let me > end it here by saying it's very nice to finally find a place where people know > who Joni is with out any effort on my part. > > Dead Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:15:32 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Travelogue Through Time Joni's latest album, Travelogue, has had my attention for a few days and it will take several more for it to sink in. Like so many others here, I was blown away by the packaging and spent at least an hour studying the book and the CD visuals before delving into the music. Upon opening the book, I saw the image of Icarus and knew that we were about to be taken on a journey up toward the sun. Also like Icarus, I knew that at some point we'd crash back to earth, and it didn't take long before the images of September 11 were bringing me back to the cold and still unbelievable events of that day. Joni depicts the television news camera images of the towers on fire, the faces in the smoke, and a president bearing the weight of the catastrophe wrought by people whose motives are unfathomable to most of us. A ghastly scenario was hinted at before in "Slouching Toward Bethlehem," which foresaw a "blood dimmed tide loosed upon the world," but who could have guessed it would be this horrendous? Her painting of the flag of the United States being raised by firefighters with the World Trade Center ruins in the background pays tribute to the victims as well as the survivors and chillingly illustrates the lyrics: "innocence is drowned in anarchy" while trying to comprehend the actions of those who are "full of passion without mercy." The next several paintings seemingly accompany "Refuge of the Roads" which is my all-time favorite Joni composition. The cross-country trip which spawned the song and the album "Hejira" was just one of her life's journeys, but exemplifies how she observes and captures the things one can see as we go through life. Next up, to the lyrics from "Woodstock," and "The Circle Game," we see pictures of children playing in the idyllic setting and a portrait of Marlin, her grandson, who may be a couple of generations removed but will soon enough find the circles of time passing ever more quickly and will be dragging his feet to slow them down. After reading some reviews and previews of the album I was most pleasantly surprised to find that this ravaged voice I had been hearing about was actually sounding more youthful and strong that it had on the last project (BSN). Joni has chopped off so many of the sustaining notes lately that it sometimes seems that she is short of breath, but on several of the "Travelogue" songs she belts it out and holds the notes and proves that reports of her vocal deterioration are greatly exaggerated. The sopranic innocence is gone but has been replaced by a highly-nuanced presentation that colors the sonic palette with an ease that could only come from an artist so supremely talented. The lack of Mitchell vocal overdubs (a trademark throughout her career) is not missed due to the dramatic flourishes of the orchestra and the featured players, especially Wayne Shorter, whose expressive riffs help create these musical masterpieces. With so many instruments in the orchestra and the arrangements which quickly move between moody quiet passages to huge crescendos there are abundant musical colors throughout. The songs are all-so-familiar to those of us who have played the older albums for years. To re-work them all, with the new arrangements, was a courageous move that will no doubt draw fire from critics who are content with the old versions, but they give me a whole new appreciation for her craft and also speak volumes for her ability as a songwriter. Only songs with a deep and complex base, songs like "Judgement of the Moon and Stars," "Slouching Towards Bethlehem," and "The Sire of Sorrow" could be given this orchestral treatment and remain so cohesive and dramatic. Others, such as "The Dawntreader" and "The Last Time I Saw Richard," show true creative genius in their adaptations. Joni, I've been travelling this road with you for 30 years. We've seen many of the same things, felt many of the same things, but you have the unique ability to convey that which you see and feel to us through your music and your art. "Travelogue" is a continuation as well as a review of the journey, richly annotated and inspiring. Life may indeed be a circle game; everything goes around and around, including your songs. But you show us that as the cycle continues, there is still room to consider, to adapt, to reinvent, and for that, I thank you. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:19:31 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC More new in town info In a message dated 11/25/02 6:26:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, chuty001@hotmail.com writes: > I got a couple of E-mails asking for a little more info about my self. This > is one of the friendliest groups I've been in or it's the old know your > enemy. > Time will tell. > No enemies here Fred, so welcome to the list and keep posting away........and happy birthday to your whole family. Toronto is one great place to celebrate the occasion. Say hello to Kilauren if you bump into her :~) Jimmy in Florida ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:37:53 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC More new in town info In a message dated 11/25/2002 6:26:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, chuty001@hotmail.com writes: > This > is one of the friendliest groups I've been in or it's the old know your > enemy. > Time will tell. Here's hoping it's always the former, Dead Fred... > it's very nice to finally find a place where people know > who Joni is with out any effort on my part. > Yes, isn't that refreshing? I find that most co-workers, friends, neighbors etc. know OF her but not really much about her. Hopefully when the dust has settled I'll have done my fair share of spreading the gospel. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:38:44 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: NJC More new in town info > chuty001@hotmail.com writes: > > > I got a couple of E-mails asking for a little more info about my self. This > > is one of the friendliest groups I've been in or it's the old know your > > enemy. > > Time will tell. > > Jimmy aka FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > No enemies here Fred, so welcome to the list and keep posting away........and > happy birthday to your whole family. Toronto is one great place to celebrate > the occasion. > > Why lie to the guy, Jimmy? Truth be told this is a huge scam. We already gathered enough information after crashing your computer to close out all your credit cards and savings accounts. Hope you have some cash to get home on. Is Toronto walking distance from home? Be assured that the money we have made off will be used for charity: we will be able to give the homeless jobs!!! by making them butlers and waitresses, or male and female prostitutes, for the JMDLers who attend the next JoniFest. Your contribution is graciously appreciated. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:50:09 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: The Dr. Phil Test (NJC) i got a 45 & liked the results so i hope it is accurate! i struggled with choosing my favorite color though! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:45:35 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: For Annie Lennox fans - new song! littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: >For any fans of Annie Lennox, here is a leaked preview of the first single >from her upcoming solo album, due out in early 2003. It's called A Thousand >Beautiful Things. > >http://th.t.free.fr/Audio/Annie%20Lennox%20-%20(New%20song!)1,000%20Beautiful %20Things.mp3 This link worked for me at 6pm CST 11/25/02, and, even better, the song *really* worked for me. I love Annie Lennox; her album "Diva" is one of my all-time faves, I love "Medusa," too, and this new song is making me salivate for her new one, which I will make a point of buying since I've tasted for free. Thanks for posting that, Little Bird. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:48:38 -0500 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing > if it is possible to put the smoking issue aside for one moment....is there some insidious youth culture in all of us (i include myself) that is afraid> of ageing which makes it hard for us to accept the natural ageing process-especially that of a woman....it is so common to admire someone for their youthfulness rather than admire them for their age...& do we have difficulty seeing the beauty of age because we are so conditioned to only seeing the beauty of youth? There's some validity to this, I'm sure. But let's face it, the problem is smoking. Critics who aren't mentioning the vocal problems in their reviews are being kind, but not doing Joni any favors, really. Someone in her inner circle, if she listens to anyone, needs to level with her: time to stop smoking or stop singing. Or at least limit the singing to jazzy numbers she can smokily croon through. But even that won't be possible after another year or two of smoking. Listening to much of this new collection is painful, and not because of Mendoza's arrangements. I hate to say it, but it's true. I adore Joni, as you all do, but the handwriting has been on the wall for years now. On that dreadful note...happy Thanksgiving to all. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:49:31 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Women performers and ageing Sorry about the inelegant title, but I've lost the original thread; it was on the subject of Joni being the only female singer-songwriter who's writing about growing old. Well, I agree that there aren't many of them around, but I would like to raise a cheer for Kate & Anna McGarrigle's wonderful album Heartbeats Accelerating, which has some beautiful songs on this very topic, including the quietly devastating "I Eat Dinner". And then there's the superb new album from Linda Thompson, which is unmistakably the work of a middle-aged woman who's been through a lot and emerged bloodied but unbowed, and indeed with a new lease of creative life. Until she was tragically taken from us, Laura Nyro, too, was writing and singing passionately about all manner of things that were clearly close to her heart and relevant to where she was in her life. And as for female performers who've retained their dignity into middle age: well, we had Joni contrasted with Cher and Tina Turner; the name that is screaming to be mentioned here is the redoubtable Bonnie Raitt, an examplar of all that is honourable and admirable in being a touring musician. A few others that spring to mind, mostly a bit younger than Joni, would be: Lucinda Williams (round about 50 and a formidable and fabulous woman) June Tabor (has grown and developed her own unique niche) Marianne Faithfull (an object lesson in how to grow old disgracefully) Jane Siberry (a true genius, whose next record is always eagerly awaited by the faithful) Emmylou Harris Azeem in London PS Although I'm not a big fan, I can't resist the temptation to pre-empt Colin and say "what about Carly Simon?" - still singing as well as ever, despite having "partied" with the best of them! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:22:26 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Bryan wrote: There's some validity to this, I'm sure. But let's face it, the problem is smoking. Balderdash. The only ones that would know that would be Joni herself and her physician. Critics who aren't mentioning the vocal problems in their reviews are being kind, but not doing Joni any favors, really. As a smoker, I would imagine Joan would not be interested in this anti-smoking tripe than I am. Someone in her inner circle, if she listens to anyone, needs to level with her: time to stop smoking or stop singing. That is absolutely ludicrous. But even that won't be possible after another year or two of smoking. Listening to much of this new collection is painful, and not because of Mendoza's arrangements. I hate to say it, but it's true. I adore Joni, as you all do, but the handwriting has been on the wall for years now. Then don't listen. Sad, but obviously true, that the anti-smoking agenda has even reached here. mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:23:51 EST From: Monafitz@aol.com Subject: Re: Art criticism - why? In a message dated 11/25/02 6:42:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, michaelpazz@directvinternet.com writes: > . It's great to have diversity and people liking > different stuff. What is really a drag is when people put down other people > for their dislikes or likes for that matter. > Well, said Mr. Paz and worthy of coming out of lurkdom for. .. Put another way.... Diversity makes for interesting characters....and life is made interesting by the characters that we know in it. Cheers, Mona Mona L. Fitzgerald monafitz@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:27:10 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC November 25th a year later > Wishing our Kentucky Ansel Adams aka Lama a very happy birthday.... > > with love from the canuckian bday faerie and her birthday boi. > > as you would say Lama....mwah!!! > > :-) Happy Birthdays to both Brian and Lamadoo! Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:28:03 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: JM mention on All Things Considered Here is the website for the radio report you missed. Listen to it on your computer! http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=854780 To quote: In his special year-end installment of Director's Cuts, Ned Wharton, music director of Weekend Edition Sunday, offers musical gift suggestions, including albums by Tim Sparks, Joni Mitchell and Rachel Z. The recommendation of T'log (positive, of course) is about 4-5 minutes in. L.A. Ron - ----- Original Message ----- From: "vince" To: "joni" Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:35 PM Subject: JM mention on All Things Considered > Since I wasn't paying attention very closely, I kept missing the first > part of the announcement on All Things Considered that ended with "Joni > Mitchell's new album which spans the length of her career." > > And then again, I am not even sure if that was on nation wide All Things > Considered, or a sponsorship note from a Michigan sponsor on WUOM > (University of Michigan). > > It possibly was Borders book store sponsoring the local broadcast or the > national broadcast since I very faintly remembering hearing the word > Borders when I wasn't listening. It was on at least twice so you'd > think I would have caught it the second time, but nooooooo.... > > Just nice to hear Joni's name on the radio. Too bad I have no clue (how > often that is true) about what was being said. > > Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:49:36 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Giving Vince Mendoza his due, part 1 of ?? was "wow, again." Beautiful? Yeah. There's beauty in it. And fright. Disappointment. Exhilaration. Clarity. Confusion. Syncopation. Swing. There's an *AWFUL* lot here. Today I'm thinking this is the most complex, most layered, most detailed, most varied title yet. I thought this was gonna be a retread. It's emphatically NOT a repeat of anything. It's apparent that Mister Mendoza has given breath to many of Joni's best lines. Remember the "COURT AND SPARK" collection? At the end of "Trouble Child", there are shimmering musical effect after the line "Trouble child, breaking like the waves on Malibu." Vince has fleshed out dozens and dozens of moments in that spirit. In literature when an author gives human characteristics to an animal, it's called an7thro7po7MOR7phism. Does anyone have a word for using instruments to give sound to a thought? To say that he "orchestrated" these tracks is to understate the way he's extracted juice from them, and given them a new metamorphosis. Some of these thoughts have entirely new context. The other day, someone mentioned that "Woodstock" is now a cautionary tale. Boy, howdy! It sure is. Ya know, Kate Bennett and her band (Jeff, Chris, and Les if memory serves) anticipated this very aspect of "Woodstock" in her take that closed the JoniFest 2002 in Upstate New York. I was hanging around when they were hammering out the arrangement. When they struck upon the idea repeating the chorus and ending on a minor chord, it took on the ominous tone that Vince also saw within it. Am I the only one who now hears this line in a new and disquieting way? Joni wrote: >> I dreamed I saw the bombers Riding shotgun in the sky>> Admittedly, in Joni's tie-dyed original, she hoped >>>they were turning into butterflies Above our nation.>>> To me, the root of the flower-power thang was a backlash against killing. In later years, like the decades of the 80s and 90s, the peacenik aspect of "Woodstock" took on a soft-focus nostalgia. Since we were no longer at war, and we had the soft-focus M*A*S*H on TV, "Woodstock" became a wishy-washy sentimental tune. No more. We are again looking at the grisly machinery and actively trying to _wish_ ourselves into a brighter, safer world. The whole point to it was "We have to get ourselves BACK TO SOME SEMBLANCE OF A GARDEN." It has been a cautionary tale, lying dormant for thirty-fricken years! Okay. That's one, too-long post about just ONE of Vince's moments. Like I said, there are dozens of moments like that. This album is as much "Joni Does It Vince's Way" as it is "Joni Sings Joni". Like our own David Lahm, Vince "gets" it. Enough for now........ Lama np: "Dead Of the Night" on LP by that Shawn Colvin person. This is a wonderful record. I keep coming back to it. From: "Mark Connely" Subject: wow, again. >>>>> This may be the most beautiful album yet. God, my heart breaks listening to "Love". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:58:13 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: For Annie Lennox fans - new song! > >For any fans of Annie Lennox, here is a leaked preview of the first single > >from her upcoming solo album, due out in early 2003. It's called A Thousand > >Beautiful Things. > > > >http://th.t.free.fr/Audio/Annie%20Lennox%20-%20(New%20song!)1,000%20Beautif ul > > %20Things.mp3 > > > This link worked for me at 6pm CST 11/25/02, and, even better, the song > *really* worked for me. I love Annie Lennox; her album "Diva" is one of my > all-time faves, I love "Medusa," too, and this new song is making me salivate > for her new one, which I will make a point of buying since I've tasted for > free. > > Thanks for posting that, Little Bird. > > -Fred > I just heard it myself and I agree 100% with everything Fred said. Annie Lennox is one of the most talented singers in the business, imo. Wonderful voice. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:24:27 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC Re Dr Phil Test There were a couple I felt this way about as well. 46. Mark > I would have answered non of the above to at least five of them but answered > as accurately as I could. 42 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:32:38 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing Joni has smoked like a chimney for her entire career. I believe what ever effects it may have had on her voice happened a long time ago. Also there is quite a good chance critics didn't mention a voice problem because they didn't hear one, or somebody neglected to tell them there was one.:-) The underground is just as straight as the overground they just don't like change - Lennon - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mack watson-bush" To: "JMDL" Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:22 PM Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #523 - Aging, smoking singing > Bryan wrote: > > > There's some validity to this, I'm sure. But let's face it, the problem is > smoking. > > Balderdash. The only ones that would know that would be Joni herself and > her physician. > > > Critics who aren't mentioning the vocal problems in their reviews are being > kind, but not doing Joni any favors, really. > > As a smoker, I would imagine Joan would not be interested in this > anti-smoking tripe than I am. > > Someone in her inner circle, if she listens to anyone, needs to level with > her: time to stop smoking or stop singing. > > > That is absolutely ludicrous. > > > But even that won't be possible after another year or two of smoking. > Listening to much of this new collection is painful, and not because of > Mendoza's arrangements. I hate to say it, but it's true. I adore Joni, as > you all do, but the handwriting has been on the wall for years now. > > Then don't listen. Sad, but obviously true, that the anti-smoking agenda > has even reached here. > > > mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:32:15 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: My 2 Scents on the 'Louge YUP!! Wow. We're completely on the same page on TRAVELOGUE, Kate. I didn't see much for me in 'HITS', 'MISSES' or 'BOTH SIDES NOW', but this is something wonderful. She's stepped into her own shoes, meaning that she's re-visited these stories as an assured, active, co-interpreter. I'd really like to hear her talk about how she and Vince worked together. Too bad she's retiring from the "cesspool". She seems to be getting on......... swimmingly. :) Lama np: Disc 1 of TRAVELOGUE Kate said, >>>>>> to those of you who don't like this record- have you listened to it in the dark, with no distractions, just letting yourself go where the music takes you...because this record really takes me on a visual journey, if i let it....it's cinematic...>>>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:32:12 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Winn-Dixie cold cut theives Has anyone heard The Band in the video called "THE LAST WALTZ" talk about shoplifting in supermarkets of the US in the old days? They'd send one guy through the checkout line with a loaf of bread, while the rest of the band (er, The Band) would say, "See ya in the car! We're gonna go on ahead!", skipping the line, with lunch meat loaded down in their Canadian trenchcoats. Winn-Dixie a supermarket chain the the US. I'm sure someone already spotted that, but her enunciation is much clearer on this particular line in the new and wonderful TRAVELOGUE. I agree with the reviewer (and Bennett too) who said this is not background music. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:35:21 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Hppy Brthdy (njc) hppy brthdy to Brei and to Lama! Vctr - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:52:15 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: awww, njc now Hey Randy, Welcome back from the shadows. :) You said, >>>>>>>>>> I just wonder what it would have sounded like with a different collaborator, maybe Phillip Glass or ??? >>>>>>>>>> Here's a preview of first 5 second of Phillip Glass'es arrangements of three Joni tracks: Track 1: " do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do (Repeat for 4:15)" Track 2: " do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do (Repeat for 6:10) " On Track 3 he pulls out ALL of the stops: "do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do beep do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do do-do- doo-do (Repeat for 8:52)" I tell ya, that Glass is a wacky guy. He's the audio equivalent of David Lynch. Can you imagine those two working together? That "Strange Boy" quote was a very clever way to make your point although I think almost everyone missed it. On another topic, I need your advice on vinyl. I'm thinking of buying a used VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine. Is the latest thinking that machines still make sense or, as Stereophile seems to suggest, just replacing my Discwasher brush with a Disc Doctor brush is the thing to do. What do you think? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:53:46 -0500 From: vince Subject: [Fwd: JM mention on All Things Considered] X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3DE2EE6A.BDC5ED36@chartermi.net> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:45:47 -0500 From: vince X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: RSM Subject: Re: JM mention on All Things Considered References: <3DE2B3C0.50797F8E@chartermi.net> <00b301c294eb$113708c0$1832320a@D82RDM11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That sounds like what I heard Sunday on Weekend Edition, which I posted scanty information about yesterday morning and you have admirably added fuller information and a link and I am profoundly grateful! Thank you! I heard something else today, and wish I had heard that instead of semi heard, but it was something different. I have no idea if it was on national ATC or just on the WUOM broadcast. Thanks so much! Vince RSM wrote: > Here is the website for the radio report you missed. Listen to it on your > computer! http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=854780 > > To quote: > > In his special year-end installment of Director's Cuts, Ned Wharton, music > director of Weekend Edition Sunday, offers musical gift suggestions, > including albums by Tim Sparks, Joni Mitchell and Rachel Z. > > The recommendation of T'log (positive, of course) is about 4-5 minutes in. > > L.A. Ron > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "vince" > To: "joni" > Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:35 PM > Subject: JM mention on All Things Considered > > > Since I wasn't paying attention very closely, I kept missing the first > > part of the announcement on All Things Considered that ended with "Joni > > Mitchell's new album which spans the length of her career." > > > > And then again, I am not even sure if that was on nation wide All Things > > Considered, or a sponsorship note from a Michigan sponsor on WUOM > > (University of Michigan). > > > > It possibly was Borders book store sponsoring the local broadcast or the > > national broadcast since I very faintly remembering hearing the word > > Borders when I wasn't listening. It was on at least twice so you'd > > think I would have caught it the second time, but nooooooo.... > > > > Just nice to hear Joni's name on the radio. Too bad I have no clue (how > > often that is true) about what was being said. > > > > Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:24:50 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Blaming Ashara? (NJC) Huh? Did I miss somethng?? Hugs, Ashara R. Green wrote: < Subject: [none] regarding : "I am partnered with a Poet. (He just handed me that passage, btw...) With over 200,000 books in the house (!!!), I can't move from room to room without tripping over Poetry in one form or another. From the early Greeks to the most contemporary writers, he's read it all. I know exactly what HE would say if I asked him if Joni were a poet. I would get that same look I get when he wanders by the tv set when I'm watching Star Trek, and they characters are speaking space speak: "Captain, the triambic radiation is interfering with the targetting scanners..." Actually, he didn't effort a grunt when I posed the question to him." I would trust his informed judgement." I too am "partnered with a poet" whatever the hell that means. He doesn't own quite 200,000 books mind you, but then neither did Proust. He's had to sit through a lot of Joni over the years and I've had to sit through more than my share of Marcus Aurelius. These are luxury compromises one makes over breakfast in love...these are not primary concerns in a refugee camp. I've always thought of Joni as an excellent pedestrian poet, that is pedestrian in the best sense. Her words run through people's heads as they walk along. They don't feel so alone. It's not the kind of thing I'd put in a mission statement for a grant proposal but in my heart of hearts I believe it to be one of the finer goals of art. I'm a painter and a writer. I've found that most people call what they like "art". Few have the generosity of spirit to recognise a lack in them selves when they fail to be moved by what is generally thought of as a "great work". Subjectivity is rampant, dear. But I'm not prepared to trust your room mate's informed judgement about what qualifies as a work of art any more than I'd trust my own artist in residence in the matter. for Chrissakes. I blame Ashara....>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:35:01 -0800 From: "karen monte" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #522 unsubscribe On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 03:00:09 -0500 (EST) JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Monday, November 25 2002 > Volume 2002 : Number 522 > > > > Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! > http://www.jonifest.com > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > njc why criticism - 2nd attempt at sendinf > [vince ] > Today in History: November 25 > [ljirvin@jmdl.com] > Today's Library Links: November 25 > [ljirvin@jmdl.com] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:38:15 -0500 > From: vince > Subject: njc why criticism - 2nd attempt at > sendinf > > Criticism in the arts is as old as the arts. > The teaching of critical > analysis of various fields of art - and other > things - is taught, and > has been since recorded history, and was > certainly all the craze as far > back as Aristotle and "Poetics." > > A critical review is an important review, in > one sense of the word, as > in "this is of critical importance." And > critical views (as opposed to > fawning reviews, ignorant reviews, puffery > reviews) is of vital > importance - shall I say, critical importance - > to the study of the > arts. > > I rely on critics to evaluate what I want to > buy, see, or experience. I > > have certain reviewers that I go to for certain > things -Blair Kanin on > architecture, for example, the New Yorker and > Michael Wilmington of the > Chicago Tribune for movies, Greg Kot of the > Trib for concerts... > > Read a critic enough and you know the standards > and biases of the > critic. I could tell in two sentences from a > Gene Siskel review if I > wanted to see the movie or not, regardless of > his opinion, because I > knew what he looked for and what I look for and > my experience of Siskel > allowed me to make an informed decision. > > Critics know a lot more than I do about the > subject at hand, where I am > really subjective, I trust their professional > expertise. I may search > out a number of reviews, or sometimes, am > content with one, depending on > > my needs, but if I really want to know about > something, I check many > reviews. I learn a great deal that way. > > (And what have all of the posts on T'log been > but critical reviews of > the album?) > > Of course there are crappy reviewers out there, > and each reviewer has > their places where I know my perspective > differs. There a few bad > drivers out there too but I am not going to > suggest that we ban all > driving. > > Reading Pauline Kael, Stanley Kaufman, and Gene > Siskel taught me so much > > about cinema... Blair Kanin on architecture is > an education in each > review... > > As far as criticism, are we confusing this with > nasty words said by > someone who doesn't like us with a critical > evaluation? Never then go > see a movie with me, for I do a critical > commentary on every movie I see > > as I leave the theater. (Me: I thought that > plot was weak. Gage: Yes, > it made no sense.) (An outstanding moment in > my life was with Gage's > father, Jeremy went to see Beverly Hills Cop II > when he was maybe 9 or > 10 and came home and said, "dad, you were > right, the movie sucked. It > was a series of disconnected scenes." Bingo, > kid, you got it!) > > If someone attends a worship service that I > take part in, I want > critical commentary on me. Did I make sense? > Did I present well? Did > I perform well? Were my words and gestures and > style real and sincere > or wooden and forced? Did I speak too fast? > Did I start talkin like a > Chicagoan an drop the ends off of de wurds in a > flat Chicago accent? > > The best sermon criticism I ever had, someone > said, "good sermon but > your views on [that subject] are myopic." > Well, upon further > examination, my views were indeed myopic! > Thank God for the critical > commentary! > > We had a sermon criticism class in seminary - > we'd videotape ourselves > and with the class review our performance, and > if anyone saw me at the > beginning (not that anyone has seen me now) > you'd be as glad as I am > that I had that class. Any service now to this > day that is videotaped, > I want to see to critically evaluate my > performance. That is how I > improve! And I bet every performing artist in > the JMDL does the same > thing with tapes and reviews from friends. We > ask for, we desire, we > lust for, we need criticism, reaction, our own > critical analysis, so > that we can improve. > > When I served as a chaplain at the U of > Michigan Medical Center, we had > small groups called IPR groups in which we > would critique each other's > interactions with patients. Damn did I learn a > lot! It was essential > to my growth in being a very good pastoral > visitor now, and having > learned the verbatim/critical response process, > I can "IPR" myself on > every visit and see where I missed something, > where my approach was > wrong, where I wasn't listening, where I said > something that mattered to > > the patient. > > Last Stones tour they were roundly criticized > for formula performing. > They took it to heart. The current tour is > amazing, and I doubt it > would have been had it not been for the reviews > that suggested that > Rolling Stones, Inc. was selling a tired > corporate product. The current > > tour is far improved. > > I learned so much in life reading book reviews, > I can't imagine where > I'd be today without those little seminars each > week. In last Sunday's > Chicago Tribune, an excellent review on Charles > Bowden's Down By the > River, a book on the drug cartels and their > interdependency with the > political aristocracy of Mexico, followed by a > review on a subject of > which i knew less than I do now,. the > pioneering role of women in social > > activism in Chicago in the post Chicago Fire > period which set the stage > for Jane Adams and Hull House and a total > re-definition of what it meant > > to assist those in need. > > As far as studying criticism, any good school > with a cinema department > will have classes in criticism. Hell, in > seminary, I studied Biblical > textual criticism, historical criticism, > redaction criticism, among > others, all vital to understanding the > Scriptures and unlocking passages > > and solving those passages which seemingly make > no sense and finding > depths of meaning. > > Art criticism - a subject unto itself and I > learned art appreciation by > reading the critics and reviewers. > > Criticism is not trash talking. Criticism is a > good thing. Of course > it can be done meanly, in spite, and that > perhaps happens far more in > our personal lives than in our public lives. > We have all been trash > talked to the point of pain and tears and we > can all cite reviews that > just plain are no good. > > But that does not negate the essential and > positive role that critical > study, critical reviews, play in our own growth > and understanding of > ourselves and the arts. > > The simple sentence: Joni Mitchell is > ______________ artist. Whatever > you put there, is a critical comment. > > Which recorded version of Woodstock do we like > best? The answer is a > critical study of her various versions - not > that critical means > negative, it simply means a thoughtful > examination based on one's > knowledge, insights, and feelings. And > because each critical review is > > not only objective ("her jazziest version") it > is also subjective, and > thus, I need either one very skilled critic > whom I can rely upon (I know > > the biases and the amount of knowledge and can > make my own judgment > accordingly) or we need 800 critics to give us > a body of critical > studies from which to draw. And has not each > of us had our > understandings of T'log enhanced by the number > of critical (not > negative, but evaluative) comments posted on > these boards? > > When I write something important I circulate > the text amongst people I > trust and beg for, pled for critical comments, > not just proof reading, > but critical comments. And, for example, on my > last paper, Laurent > found a serious flaw in my application of a > descriptive word on a series > > of events that indeed not all of them fit that > description. Since on > that description my paper rises or falls, > Laurent's critical comment > (not negative, but critical, evaluative) was > essential to fixing a fatal > > flaw in the paper, as well as challenge me on > some too easy assumption I > > made and forced me to think and rethink in that > area - so it was all > good. The critical process is essential to the > production of good > work. (Another friend made some critical > comments that were less than > insightful and I noted them but the impacted > nothing. Not all criticism > > is equally valid. And the friend who > contributed nothing to me this > time has made wonderful contributions through > criticism in the past, and > > will again, i hope.) > > Last word; I did a public prayer at a community > Thanksgiving service > which brought together two communities that > never do anything > together. I worked very hard to work in some > humor - ever try to write > > a prayer with humor in it and not make the > prayer a joke? - with some > simple jump points that would cause a sudden > inversion of the symbol so > that a new meaning would be lifted up: i.e., we > give thanks not for what > > we have or want, but rather, we give thanks for > what God has: us. > > So here is me, flaming leftist, with my prayer > with humor that inverts > the old understandings for new meanings and I > got knowing laughs (no one > > laughs during prayer, it was a milestone new > achievement and I loved it > as the humor was not in the joke which didn't > exist but in the irony of > human life that is funny), a few humorous quips > from the congregation > (at least they were involved in the prayer!) > and accomplished my goal of > > waking every one up to hang onto my next word > rather than snooze through > > another typical, boring thanksgiving prayer. > Then I did several symbol > inversions, ending with the major symbol > inversion re-emphasized as > *the* point. > > Results: the very conservative preacher made a > point of my "great > prayer" and two rather conservative pastors > commented that they loved > my familiar, easy way of talking to God in > public prayer as if it were a > > real conversation and not church talk (aha! I > did it!) as well as grab > common symbols from the gathered community that > made the prayer about > their reality, not about "spiritual" things > (aha! I did it!) and the > other conservative pastor said it was "really > God-centered" which > indeed was the attempt with the inversion of > symbols. So I got > reinforcing critical comments. Which was cool. > And had someone pointed > > out something that could have ben better, where > my attempt did not work > as well as I had hoped, that would have been > valuable as well so that I > can improve my ability to do this. > > Long and boring, but I feel compelled to > support the good and utterly > essential role that critical evaluation, > critical comments, critical > reviews play in improving and understanding the > arts and public > performance. > > the ever boring (self criticism at its finest) > Vince > > > PS I would affirm that Britney Spears is a > major talent, and a better > talent, in the world of dance tunes usable in > aerobics classes - a sub > category of music in which she excels and Joni > sucks, unless Joni is big > > time re-mixed and not always then. Will > Britney last? I think not. > But she has her niche, and she does her niche > art well. The fact that > other than its application in aerobics I have > little use for it is just > a factor of my life. > > The critical study of office furniture is a > major concern of Herman > Miller, located about 30 miles from me, where > criticism of function, > structure, lay out, and ergonomics of office > furniture allows them to > improve their products. Many people are in > that field, critically > analyzing office furniture, and every time I > set in my new office chair, > > I am thankful. And I look to those people with > a key to getting the > feng shi of my office right. too. > > more boring - that's me! > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:03:03 -0500 > From: ljirvin@jmdl.com > Subject: Today in History: November 25 > > 1976: Joni joined The Band's "Last Waltz" at > the Winterland Ballroom in San Francisco. She > sang backup to Neil Young on "Helpless" and > with The Band on "Acadian Driftwood", performs > "Coyote", "Shadows And Light", and "Furry Sings > The Blues", and joins Bob Dylan, Van Morrison, > Neil Diamond, Dr John, and others for the grand > finale "I Shall Be Released." > More info: > http://www.jonimitchell.com/LastWaltz.html > - ---- > For a comprehensive reference to Joni's > appearances, > consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of > Appearances: > http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:03:03 -0500 > From: ljirvin@jmdl.com > Subject: Today's Library Links: November 25 > > On November 25 the following items were > published: > > > 1970: "Alberta-born Singer Gets Raves in > London" - Alberta Herald > (Review - Concert) > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=431 > > > 1982: "More Songs About Love From Joni > Mitchell" - Rolling Stone > (Review - Album) > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=303 > > > 1982: "Wild Things Run Fast" - Rolling Stone > (Interview, with photographs) > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=302 > > > 1994: "Thirty Years With a Portable Lover" - > Los Angeles Weekly > (Biography, with photographs) > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=165 > > > > - -------- > Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2002 #522 > ***************************** > > ------- > Post messages to the list by clicking here: > mailto:joni@smoe.org > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- > Siquomb, isn't she? > (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm) > unsubscribe monte ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:22:45 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Brian's birthday NJC HAPPY BIRTHDAY BRIAN! hey aren't we calling you brei now? ;-) hope it's great. i know it will be great, cuz hey, aren't you mr. mags holden now? love and hugs to both of you, alison e. in slc Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:37:26 -0800 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Early Joni on TV Heads up, Canadian Listers! CMT, the Canadian Country Music Station, (although they are branching out from playing only country) is running a program this week (they're calling it Bellbottom Week) which features half-hour BBC TV concerts recorded in the early 70's. Tonight they featured James Taylor (I was spell-bound through the whole thing), tomorrow is Neil Young, Wednesday is Elton John, and Thursday is Joni. It's on at 6 p.m. Pacific Time with a repeat at 10 p.m. (Which means if any eastern JT fans are still awake you can catch his concert tonight.) Rick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:39:52 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: my take on T'log Vince writes: << Slouching and Judgment (why the extra "e" on the track listings?) >> Whate extrae "e"e? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:48:49 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Happy Fecking Birthday!!! Happy Fecking Birthday to the worlds greatest friend a person could have. Hope you have a wonderful day and many many more. We had a jam with Jack and Christina tonight in your honour! lots of original songs too and even a couple by singer/songwriter Christina Friis-Nielsen. Cheers amigo! Love Paz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:50:11 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Blaming Ashara? (NJC) Wong numba ! on 11/25/02 8:24 PM, AsharaJM@aol.com at AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > Huh? Did I miss somethng?? > > Hugs, > Ashara > > R. Green wrote: > > < From: "greenstudio" > Subject: [none] > > regarding : > > "I am partnered with a Poet. (He just handed me that > passage, btw...) > With over 200,000 books in the house (!!!), I can't move > from room to > room without tripping over Poetry in one form or another. > From the early > Greeks to the most contemporary writers, he's read it all. > I know > exactly what HE would say if I asked him if Joni were a > poet. I would > get that same look I get when he wanders by the tv set when > I'm watching > Star Trek, and they characters are speaking space speak: > "Captain, the > triambic radiation is interfering with the targetting > scanners..." > Actually, he didn't effort a grunt when I posed the question > to him." > > I would trust his informed judgement." > > I too am "partnered with a poet" whatever the hell that > means. He doesn't own quite 200,000 books mind you, but then > neither did Proust. He's had to sit through a lot > of Joni over the years and I've had to sit through more than > my share of Marcus Aurelius. These are luxury compromises > one makes over breakfast in love...these are not primary > concerns in a refugee camp. > > I've always thought of Joni as an excellent pedestrian poet, > that is pedestrian in the best sense. Her words run through > people's heads as they walk along. They don't feel so alone. > It's not the kind of thing I'd put in a mission statement > for a grant proposal but in my heart of hearts I believe it > to be one of the finer goals of art. > > I'm a painter and a writer. I've found that most people call > what they like "art". Few have the generosity of spirit to > recognise a lack in them selves when they fail to be moved > by what is generally thought of as a "great work". > Subjectivity is rampant, dear. But I'm not prepared to trust > your room mate's informed judgement about what qualifies as > a work of art any more than I'd trust my own artist in > residence > in the matter. for Chrissakes. > > I blame Ashara....>> ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #524 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)