From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #514 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, November 23 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 514 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Will & Grace - njc [colin ] Re: Joni Will & Grace NJC [colin ] Re: you losers/Now NJC [colin ] Re: NJC - Woody, Altman, Sayles [colin ] Re: Will & Grace - NJC [colin ] RE:Rosie, njc ["Darice(darice@mindspring.com)"] NJC, now Six Feet Under [nyroman ] heche/ellen njc [colin ] Lyricists as poets??? ["Kate Bennett" ] jazz voice ["Kate Bennett" ] NJC Lyricists as poets??? ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: 1st French point of view about Tlog [Rick and Susan ] Re "Sweet" Baby James? (njc) [Franklin Shea ] Re: 1st French point of view about Tlog njc [Catherine McKay ] At last.... ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: NJC re: Savoy Brown [Franklin Shea ] Re: NJC - Gosford Park - not about teen make-out spots ;) [Franklin Shea ] Re: just for fun njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: At last.... ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: NJC Our current "media" culture's tolerance levels ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: NJC Only the nose knows.... [Franklin Shea ] Re: NJC Lyricists as poets??? ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Intermission ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: that's no slut, that's a whore! ["Heather" ] Re: "Joni's yucky voice" [] Re: NJC Only the nose knows.... ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Intermission [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: jill hennessey NJC ["Heather" ] fresh meat ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC Only the nose knows.... [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Re "Sweet" Baby James? (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: NJC, now Six Feet Under [Susan Guzzi ] Rocky Harry Potter Horror Picture Show njc [vince ] Re: Joni Will & Grace NJC [Susan Guzzi ] TRAVELOUGE REVIEWS/W&G [Cactustree78@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:17:14 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Will & Grace - njc SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 11/22/2002 4:02:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > > > >>"I don't wanna say I'm straight or I'm gay," >> >> > >Which would mean that he's gay as a straight guy would never say that. > Oh goody, that means I am in with a chance with Keanu after all..... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:25:15 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni Will & Grace NJC >I happen to agree with you on QAF - I think it sucks - well except for Sharon Gless! > gless is wonderful in it. like the uk version, i cannot see why thelead character is so attrative. he is horrid and his 'looks' don't make up for that. I do enjoy watching the program but it alos makes me cringe. most ignorant str8 people watching it will juts have all, their nasty little prejudices confimred by it. > > >Peace, >Susan >Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:30:06 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: you losers/Now NJC Jenny Goodspeed wrote: >a second opinion...and probably biased because I'm a huge Ellen fan. I watched every episode, the writers struggled, but Ellen and Cloris Leachman were hilarious - it never got an audience because, though Ellen lobbied hard against it, it got stuck in a Friday at 9 pm time slot. > >Jenny (who realizes she just admitted she stays home most Friday nights.) > well don't feel bad..we do too! the only time we go out is to dog shows. our sunday thrill is to go to the shops! > Lori Fye wrote:> oh and laso noticed a new Ellen sho called the Ellen Show. > > >>did that bomb? >> >> > >Yes, and with good reason. It was lame. > >Lori > >~ >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:39:30 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC - Woody, Altman, Sayles > that film was dross and a waste of some brilliant talent. Stephen > Fry was especially bad, I thought. I try hard to like something ibut sometimes it just doesn't happen. i was so diappointed with it. Hellen Mirren and a host ofother stars and a costume piece too. bound to be excellent. pity it wasn't. > > BTW, my eyesight is failing too when it comes to small print! i am as blind as a bat almost without my glasses but have always read books without them, common for myopics. trouble is i cannot see my pc screen without and the reading is harder. XP has a choice to make emails and web pages larger print just by a click so that is good. I willeventually need bi focals but not yet! > > > Also, I'm hoping that the pullover will arrive, modelled, within the > next couple of hours! with your son in it I hope ! > > Regards, > > Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:44:11 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Will & Grace - NJC hell wrote: >I also love Will & Grace, and I don't think it makes any difference whether >the actors are gay or straight, > of course it doesn't. but people are always saying they cannot believe a gay man playing str8. the excuse given for closeted actors. it happened here. an actor known for playing 'ladies man' roles was exposed as gay in the tabloids. he still wrnt on to star in another tv sereis as str8. but not heard of him since. will young, who won Pop idol came out as gay. people said he had ruined his career because now the girls and women he appealed to had their fantasy ruined. are people really this shallow? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:48:52 -0500 From: "Darice(darice@mindspring.com)" Subject: RE:Rosie, njc It so nice to see a Jackson song discussed on this list...but must it be ROSIE???? Jackson tells a funny storu about how his mother told him she had finally figured out what Rosie was about....He waited to hear what she thought...and she sais "wine of course, you know rose." Can't make that little mark for rosee. DArice ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:50:19 -0500 From: nyroman Subject: NJC, now Six Feet Under I believe that would be Michael C. Hall and Mathew St. Patrick. "Six Feet Under." (David and Keith) I don't watch much TV but I'll sit down for this show. Very well done, and how can I not love a show that has used both Joni Mitchell's and Laura Nyro's songs?? :-) Best, Gary Sybil Skelton wrote: > > Maggie asks: > > >What do you think > >of the gay character (whose name I have forgotten, of course, since I'm > >old), on Six Feet Under and the job that the actor who plays him does? > > I'd be interested too. There are actually 2 gay characters on that show > (neither of whose names I can recall because I am also old) and I believe > they have indulged in long, passionate kisses as well as some more graphic > behavior as well. I think I've even seen full frontal male nudity on that > show - quite shocking even for HBO. I think they do an excellent job with > those characters, and the actors are amazing. But then everyone on that > show is amazing. > > Sybil > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:52:28 +0000 From: colin Subject: heche/ellen njc saw this woman in John Q tonight. Playing a hard nosed cold hearted person. i know it is probably irrrational but i really do not like this woman. who had heard of her before Ellen? Ellen will always have a cult follwing but her 'bigtime' days are over. i hope i am wrong but cannot see things changing e=nough for her sexuality to not matter a damn. I still recall all the fuss when she was coming out on Ellen and the sha,meful stuiff wrtten here about her. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:26:04 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Lyricists as poets??? Franklin>I believe most songwriters, including the author of the bestseller "The Craft of Lyrical Songwriting" would consider it a craft.< writing lyrics & melody is art, craft, inspiration & perspiration... Franklin> A TINY FRACTION?? What planet did you say you're from? Listened to any commercial radio lately - like in the last twenty years?< victor is correct...what you hear on commercial radio is but a tiny fraction of the music that is being produced & released throughout the world...commercial radio is not an accurate gauge as to the quantity & quality of music out there... Franklin> I'll assume this is a personal confession... difficult for who? That's an unmerited assumption. I've read scads of articles involving songs I've found to be lyrically sophisticated, tasteful and wonderful where the writer says, "it just all flowed right off the pen."< sure, some songs do flow off the pen & are considered a precious gift by the songwriter...however, the vast majority take some work (craft as you have mentioned)...a skilled lyricist can make the result appear easy... Franklin> And yes, unfortunately, as time will attest, lyric-writing is a lower "art" as you call it, than poetry. I would simply suggest that the two are mutually exclusive - truely timeless poetry being the "art", while contemporary lyric-writing would probably be considered more of a "craft" by most literary experts. << in your opinion... in mine, i don't subscribe to the 'this is art, this is not art' school of thought...nor would i give any credibility to any so-called literary experts who only understand lyric writing to be craft- if so they've never spent much time as a lyricist...(could this be a case of those who can, do, those who can't claim to be experts?) btw, if lyric writing is only craft then how would you explain a song that just flowed off the pen? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:37:05 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: jazz voice >>Frankly though, I am having a lot of trouble getting around the smoker's voice in many of the songs. I find it distracting. I think from this point on the critics (it has already begun) are going to savage Joni for vocal deterioration.<<< i think it fits so well but to each his own...btw, do the critics take tom waitts to task for his voice quality? how bout dylan? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:37:06 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NJC Lyricists as poets??? >>>Jonatha Brooke has often talked about fighting her anit-muse, the part of her that tells her she is no good and cannot write. All artists deal with this, not just me.<<< yes, i love how she calls it the 'i suck' syndrome... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:55:20 -0800 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: 1st French point of view about Tlog Laurent a ecrit: > Hi all, > Here it is, the first article about Travelogue in France. A very very good > article from Nick Kent in "Libiration". I hope you all can read french ;-) > http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=68811# Here's my attempt at a translation: Travelogue Joni Mitchell just turned 59 and has chosen this moment to officially announce the she will not record again. She explains that she can no longer support the dishonesty and greed of the record companies and the music industry in general, and prefers to concentrate on her other gift, painting. However you interpret it, this declaration is a very bad omen for the future of popular music in which, over the last thirty-five years, Mitchell has shown herself to be a vital link, the equivalent of Dylan and Cohen as a lyricist, and an inspired goldsmith of sublime melodies. Travelogue (a 2 CD collection of 22 of her favorite compositions rearranged and rerecorded with a full symphony orchestra) comes across as her swan song: a disc of thrilling beauty, an impeccable tour de force and a demonstration of the timelessness of Mitchell and her songs. Drawn from every period of her career, these songs, interpreted in a marvelous voice haloed by wisdom and maturity, include too many highlights to name only one. Drop everything and buy this CD at once, in the hopes that it will make her change her mind. Rick (who only had to use Larousse 3 times to translate this and is pretty proud of himself.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:16:29 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re "Sweet" Baby James? (njc) >Victor, in a typical, over-generalizing mood>I find it interesting >that within one hour you have trashed only both James Taylor and Bob >Dylan, but all lyricists in general and yet when someone a subtle >statement you are so quick to lash out. Franklin, obviously puzzled> Why is it that when I state an opinion, regarding two artists I respect and SOME of whose work I appreciate, you cavalierly construe it as "trashing" them. As for the "all lyricists in general" - where the hell did that one come from!! I'll let you know when I'm "trashing" someone - thank you (I'll probably have to.. you don't seem to understand my communications as anything other than fodder for your own thrusts). >Victor, in a more informative mood> For your information, I have >never been paranoid and the only person who seems a little stressed >is you. Really, I wouldn't take all of this so seriously. Franklin> Perfect! Apparently neither of us is stressed - I positively couldn't be over your self-styled innuendos. I do take unwarranted hostility a bit seriously though (you remember - your snide remark about my postings which you have yet to back up). So like I said, if my opinions irritate you and they generate hostility (subconscious, or otherwise) then skip my clearly marked thread contributions. If you'd care to make observations, comments, or counterpoints cogent to the discussion, that's fine - but let's try to keep it at that. The accusatory shit's a bit juvenile for my tastes. Cordially, Franklin > > >--- Victor Johnson >--- waytoblu@mindspring.com >Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson > >Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 >Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:14:32 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: 1st French point of view about Tlog njc --- Rick and Susan wrote: > Laurent a ecrit: > > Hi all, > > Here it is, the first article about Travelogue in > France. A very very good > > article from Nick Kent in "Libiration". I hope you > all can read french ;-) > > http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=68811# > > Here's my attempt at a translation: > Rick, that's an ace translation job. I was going to do it too, but you've got it covered, mon ami. Chapeau! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:26:15 -0500 From: "PAUL PETERSON" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #501 From the Boston Globe: Joni, you never fail to surprise. Your truest fans, including this one, have traveled with you through an amazing range of expressions. We've seen you leap from the barefoot romance of "Blue" to the harsh political playlets of "Dog Eat Dog," and we've shared your musical shifts from jazz and African rhythms to Thomas Dolby's high-tech sonic adventures in the 1980s. Few singer-songwriters have grown into maturity with as much unpredictability and experimentation as you. And with as much diva free spirit. Condemning your imitators for their "girlie guile " and aligning yourself with Vincent Van Gogh, you have kept us dazzled with an unwillingness to play by the rules of fame. No self-editing, no false modesty, no audience pandering. When listeners wanted you in Birkenstocks, you wore heels; when we wanted more "Court and Spark" sweetness, you gave us the social raillery of "The Hissing of Summer Lawns." You've been stubbornly loyal to your muse, and we've always benefited. Until now, that is. Today, Joni Mitchell is releasing a new CD that many of her fans - definitely this one - will not want to play. Called "Travelogue," it is a reinterpretation of Mitchell by Mitchell, with Joni singing 22 of her previously released songs accompanied by a 70-piece orchestra, a choir, and notables such as Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter. An extension of the self-reimagining that began on 2000's orchestrated "Both Sides Now," it's Joni somewhere between Broadway and Bach. It's theatrical, it's grandiose, and it's not the Joni Mitchell I want to hear unless I'm looking for distraction in a dentist's waiting room. Lest you think that "Travelogue" is Mitchell Muzak, let me say that for what it is, it's quality. As always, Mitchell's production (with ex-husband Larry Klein) is meticulous. Each song is arranged to recall but not mimic the original, with formerly dominant riffs reduced to substatements on songs such as "Refuge of the Roads." Her voice is gracefully mixed in with the violins, bassoon, trumpets, and drums, and yet it remains clearly upfront. And her voice is as good as it has been in years - without the multioctave trilling that once distinguished it, of course, but with enough nuance to make her lyrics count. Her tones now have a husky warmth that, ironically enough, may partly result from decades of smoking. On the more successful songs, such as "The Dawntreader," her voice is gorgeously intimate. And I don't think Mitchell is remaking old material simply to get a new album into stores. There isn't cynicism behind these remakes so much as weariness. I hate to say it, but part of Mitchell's motivation in making "Travelogue" may be a lack of inspiration for writing new songs. Her painting continues to take her in new directions, and she may not have much more to say in words. By redoing old pieces, she may be trying to create a sort of epilogue to her songwriting years, a summarizing career statement. But Mitchell may be too smitten with the notion that her songs are more durable than we ever knew, that they can flourish in any musical setting. She has proven the versatility of some of her pieces before, when she reshaped material for live performances on albums such as "Miles of Aisles" or on her excellent video "Painting With Words and Music." And her 2000 version of the simple, anthemic song "Both Sides Now" grew into a sunset reassessment of love and life thanks to a sedate orchestration. But the complicated songs that predominate "Travelogue," such as "Judgement of the Moon and Stars (Ludwig's Tune)," "The Sire of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song)," and "Slouching Toward Bethlehem," don't take on new shadings so much as they lose old ones. Mitchell's fierce intellectualism - what has made her music so superior to her imitators' - is sold short in a swelled-up musical setting where the instruments sound as though they could be cuing choreographed dance moves. Musings on fame such as "For the Roses" or "Troubled Child" are sadly diminished, and "Sex Kills," one of Mitchell's darkest observations about pollution, commercialism, and moral sickness, is rendered almost silly. And occasionally the arrangements force her into awkward enunciations, such as on "Amelia." Throughout her career, Mitchell has reached toward orchestration in interludes on songs such as "Down to You." But those bursts of thunder came at significant moments, not so consistently that they blurred together. On "Travelogue," all the careful orchestration ultimately prettifies a collection of brilliant songs, songs that frequently call for bite - even if their author has mellowed. Matthew Gilbert can be reached at gilbert@globe.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:27:40 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: At last.... There are over 150 Joni mails in the ol' inbox tonight as I write this but I'm not going to read any of them. I went downtown to Borders today and picked up 'Travelogue'. I will be listening now, reading later. Bree, thank you again! Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:34:09 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re: NJC re: Savoy Brown >StDoherty stated> Can't believe I actually saw a reference to Savoy >Brown. I loved that album and Hell Bound Train. Thanks for bringing >me back. I'll be certain to dig out the vinyl tonight and have me a >listen. Franklin> Absolutely my friend... (not sure how to refer to you StDoherty). In my opinion, Kim Simmonds was to Savoy Brown what Mick Fleetwood and John McVie were to Fleetwood Mac. Almost countless rotating members but ALWAYS holding down the fort in sheer style! He surely hasn't gotten the recognition he deserves over the years. Truly a tasteful, tasteful, stylish, rippin' lead guitar player in the greatest tradition of the art. I'm envious of your "vinyl" but will smile knowing you are enjoying such a sheer treat tonight. Regards, Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:40:41 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re: NJC - Gosford Park - not about teen make-out spots ;) >> Not really too sure how it would play on VCR - unless of course >>you have one of those Home Theaters - you know 43" screen or >>larger... > >Colin, humbly (lol)>fraid mine is rather smalll...only 32" .....but wide Franklin>Hot damn, no wonder John isn't feeling well! BTY - Tell John kudos on the not smoking... If you can go five days, all the nicotine is out of your bloodstream. Then it's ONLY psychological from there. So just repeat after me John... smoking is bad for my health; smoking is a course, distasteful habit; smoking is socially unacceptable...lol You get the idea. Mind OVER matter at this point. Keep recoverin', Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:07:50 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: just for fun njc >"Who is Joni Mitchell?" He stopped and I could see the mind >turning. Puzzled, he said "isn't she a country singer?" I said "no." >He then went on. "Yea, I remember her, she was on the Porter Wagoner show >in >the 60's." I think Dick is thinking of Dolly Parton here. >She said that she had friends in Canada and that they had doves, though not >specific about the birds was she. They, the friends, would play >different >music and the birds would not react but when they played Joni, the birds >would >coo and coo and coo. She said they would remove Joni and play something >else >and the birds would stop. Reinsert Joan, and the cooing returned. Even >the >birds know. Thanks for sharing this Mack...I loved it!! (I have to forward this to somone..she will get such a kick) Bree >mack > > > > > > > > http://Stories.Com/authors/mackoliver _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:26:48 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: At last.... You are very welcome..... I'm very eager to hear your thoughts! Bree >There are over 150 Joni mails in the ol' inbox tonight as I write this but >I'm not going to read any of them. I went downtown to Borders today and >picked up 'Travelogue'. I will be listening now, reading later. > >Bree, thank you again! > >Mark E in Seattle _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:39:11 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC Our current "media" culture's tolerance levels Too much!!!!!!!!! I love to kiss you on your nose...I love being here with you....(diana Krall..live in Paris) ><< we're all going to have the option to watch Iraq destroyed, live, before >our very eyes! The ratings are going to go through the roof >> > >Not if Britney makes a guest appearance on Will and Grace that same night. > > --Bob _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:05:47 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re: NJC Only the nose knows.... >Bree gushs (wink)> Too much!!!!!!!!! I love to kiss you on your >nose...I love being here with you....(diana Krall..live in Paris) >> >>Franklin had stated> we're all going to have the option to watch >>Iraq destroyed, live, before our very eyes! The ratings are going >>to go through the roof >> >> >>Bob had brilliantly countered> Not if Britney makes a guest >>appearance on Will and Grace that same night. Franklin> Hey Bree, now would that be Bob's nose, or mine? Any thoughts/comments on this Bob? I know I could use one - it's gettin' cold up here in Minnesnowta! lol Love being here with YOU too, Bree, whether that kiss is fur' me or not! :) >>Franklin > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:05:00 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC Lyricists as poets??? >Franklin> I beg to differ, Andrew. There is a WORLD of difference > > between a lyricist and a poet. The term lyricist would imply someone > > who is addressing the specific needs of a song - generally three > > (rarely four) chords meant to charm 16.00 out of a 14-25 year old. > > Repetition, hooks, "catchy" chorus are all part of the "game". > > >Also, just because a song is simple and has simple lyrics does not mean it >did not take great skill to write. In fact, it is very difficult to create >something that is very simple and yet comes across as brilliant. . >Many >of his songs may seem simplistic on the surface but >they are more complex than they seem. Yesterday...Beatles..... and the list goes on..Somone To Watch Over Me..Somewhere Over The Rainbow..Harold Arlen... Good points... Bree >Victor > >NP: Joni Mitchell "Nothing Can Be Done" > > > > > > >--- Victor Johnson >--- waytoblu@mindspring.com >Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson > >Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 >Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:18:16 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Re "Sweet" Baby James? (njc) I do take > unwarranted hostility a bit seriously though (you remember - your > snide remark about my postings which you have yet to back up). So > like I said, if my opinions irritate you and they generate hostility > (subconscious, or otherwise) then skip my clearly marked thread > contributions. If you'd care to make observations, comments, or > counterpoints cogent to the discussion, that's fine - but let's try > to keep it at that. The accusatory shit's a bit juvenile for my > tastes. My remark was meant to be a joke, based on your own depiction of James Taylor, whom you said wrote three(maybe six) noteworthy songs in his entire career, the rest of which were dismal failures, comparable to garbage in a landfill. I simply wanted you to view yourself by those same standards you held James up to but apparently that went over your head. I am by no means irritated at anything and have no hostility in me and never have. And I have yet to even say anything directed at you. Every single one of my posts has been about the subject at hand. I have no interest in creating drama and will ignore any further drama. Victor NP: Linda Thompson "The Great Valerio" - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:24:27 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: T'log, first disc, first listen Kate, I agree that many of the reviewers don't seem to have heard what I'm in the process of hearing. After reading so much about the deterioration of her voice, I was expecting (dreading) some kind of embarrassing rasp. That is not the case at all. I don't know what they're talking about. In fact, I feel her vocals are very effective indeed. And very musical (one critic remarked that she was 'narrating' the songs rather than singing them). Like any good artist, she knows how to make the absolute most of whatever limitations she may be faced with; allowing imagination, intelligence, talent, feeling and artistry to more than make up for any deficiency in technique. No, she doesn't have the range she once had (and frankly some of her early soprano moments get on my nerves), and the long, languorous vocal lines are now clipped, but she sure as hell can sell a song. I'm also pleasantly surprised by the arrangements, orchestrations and production. It seems the orchestra is used for punctuation, rather than the background wash of BSN, which I did not care for. It puts the rhythm and percussion back, which seems so much a part of Joni's musical style. Also, the vocals are more in front. I can hear every word -- which is so much the point. In fact, that's why Sire of Sorrow is such a revelation to me here. For some reason, the lyrics are hard for me to hear on TI. But now, in this new version, every word is clear, and I find it very moving. The emotional content overall is very powerful. Clearly, these songs culled from so many years of songwriting have a lot more going for them than 'picture postcard charms.' They are much more than pop cultural snapshots from the 60s, 70s, etc. I can't wait to hear the rest. But I'm going to listen to disc 1 through 2 or 3 times first. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:30:02 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Intermission Pausing between disks 1 & 2 to eat some dinner & absorb. A few first impressions: Intro to 'Love' - exquisite! I was looking to see which song came next at first but I decided to stop doing that and it's been fun trying to identify each song as it begins. Some of them are easy, some are not. This one almost threw me at first but I remembered hearing it on the Nonesuch site. It's a stunner! 'Judgment of the Moon & Stars' - I wanted to cheer & shout but I wanted to hear the music too so I didn't. I was doing some expressive arm movements toward the end. I do weird shit when I'm alone and listening to music I love sometimes. 'Flat Tires' - everything everybody's said about it. This version shows what a brilliant song it truly is. 'Slouching Toward Bethlehem' - reminded me of her live performance at the Gorge. Chilling. 'Sire of Sorrow' - male voices=Greek chorus. The first thing I thought of when somebody posted about this one. This song has always made me think of the classic Greek tragedies although I know the text is based on the book of Job from the Bible. The male voices as 'The Antagonists' just confirms it for me. This one had me doubled over, stifling noises coming up from my gut and squeezing tears from my eyes. The original is intense for me. This one is exquisite agony. May become my ultimate piece of cathartic music. Those of you who know me & remember what this song means to me will understand why. 'For the Roses' - I think this one just might be Norma Desmond. But she ain't all that hot on getting back in front of those cameras! This one's gonna take awhile to fully absorb it. 'God Must Be a Boogie Man' - This one is a delightful surprise. I'm glad she included a nod to Mingus. Very evident in the predominant bass line. She loved him and she's eternally grateful to him. Joni & Wayne=the Lady & Prez of the 21st century on this one. More later. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:37:53 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: that's no slut, that's a whore! just popping in with a joke: How do you make a hormone? Don't pay her ... get it? whore moan. I know ... it's stupid but all this talk about whores made me do it! ;-) Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Mark Connely Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:29 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: that's no slut, that's a whore! OK, so the bible tells of the Whore of Babylon, who is like the spirit of the anti-christ, and she is riding on the Beast of Revelation. The Beast is the force(s) that culminate in Armageddon. Am I getting warmer? Huh? mc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:36:40 -0800 From: Subject: Re: "Joni's yucky voice" I like the late 70's voice better than the early 'more bubbly' JM myself. As far as Joni's deteriorating voice is concerned,with respect to touring Travelogue - Let's keep in mind that Joni's voice sounded, in my opinion, dishearteningly weak on TTT, but then she went on tour and blew us all away in '98 - I couldn't believe how fucking good she sounded. I know full well that with each album the situation gets worse (especially with long periods between recordings), but I have a feeling that IF there is a tour, it'll only be a 5 or 6 city deal anyway. We'll see. - -Chris On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:05:34 -0800 (PST) Little Bird wrote: > I met a man in Montreal once in the "M" section > of a record store who was looking through the > Joni CDs. I told him I was a fan too and we > looked through some of them together. He said > he only liked her music up until Wild Things > Run Fast because after that, he said, "Her > voice got yucky." > > I actually prefer the husky alto to her > peaks-n'-valleys soprano of days gone by. I > think her voice reached its ideal pitch in the > mid to late 70s when it could glide seamlessly > over many octaves and multi-syllabic phrases > with ease. But I agree that the critics will > generally not be kind to Joni's singing > capabilities this time around. I noticed the > deterioration of her voice even since Both > Sides Now but tend to like it's rusty effect, > over all. > > I liked the comparison someone made of Joni's > voice to a horn. It is very brassy these days, > sort of trumpet-like and squeaky on the trills. > > > However, I think it will only serve to > marginalize her even further. If fans of her > work are finding it distracting, imagine what > the mainstream public will think. They won't > really know what to make of it. > > I imagine touring this album may prove to be > difficult for Joni if her voice is in rough > shape. > > -Andrew > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign > up now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:42:04 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC Only the nose knows.... The nose knows. He's funny.. I was thinking you were a California kind of guy.... Be good.. Bree >>>Bob had brilliantly countered> Not if Britney makes a guest appearance on >>>Will and Grace that same night. > >Franklin> Hey Bree, now would that be Bob's nose, or mine? Any >thoughts/comments on this Bob? I know I could use one - it's gettin' cold >up here in Minnesnowta! lol Love being here with YOU too, Bree, whether >that kiss is fur' me or not! :) > >>>Franklin >> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online >>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:46:51 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: you losers/Now NJC hmmm... i've heard of: polishing the carrot slugging the dummy and punching the clown any others? Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Lori Fye Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 12:45 PM To: Murphycopy@aol.com; LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk; FMYFL@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: you losers/Now NJC > Could this mean that Jimmy has finally stopped 'choking the chicken'? He was choking the chicken? All this time I thought he was spanking the monkey. What a zoo. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:48:55 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Intermission About 'Sire of Sorrow,' Mark writes: << This one is exquisite agony >> I couldn't help but laugh as I thought that Letterman might say, "'Exquisite Agony,' isn't that a Joni Mitchell album?" On a more serious note, there's lots of "exquisite agony" on T'log. (Or as W. B. Yeats might have said if he ever reviewed T'log, "terrible beauty.") Congratulations, Mark, for coming up with a phrase worthy of Yeats that so accurately describes much of the experience of listening to this. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:56:48 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: jill hennessey NJC same here. i'm sad that diane wiest is gone. she was a good replacement for steven hill. i don't like the new guy. he acts like too much of a texan to be in the nyc district attorneys office. heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Alison E Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 5:29 PM To: lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: jill hennessey NJC >Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:32:14 -0800 >From: "Lori Fye" .>Subject: Re: Will-not gay enough? NJC >The >story was rather nicely done ... unfortunately, >Jordan had to admit >she's not gay ... : ( >Lori, >a big fan of Jill Hennessey OH, ME TOO ME TOO! Law and Order just isn't the same without her....all these skinny little conservative girlie types they've had since her... hennessey kicked ass in that role. and now diane wiest is gone too! sniffle! alison e. in slc, joining victors "waiting for travelogue to get here" support group...mine's on the way from amazon. np: peter salett Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:08:06 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: fresh meat (as coyote rick would say i was blasting t'log tonight, the first chance i've had to hear on on the big stereo start to finish...(lama is right about the balcony thing & joni at the edge with the orchestra down on the stage) as i was making dinner, called jeff in...it was kinda loud so he turned it down so we could talk...he started asking about the record, why she chose to do it this way, etc....i told him she'd always talked about her songs in terms of orchestra & composition...that he needed to listen to the whole thing, see the pictures, to assess it for himself...etc...i told him woodstock was on it & he asked me to play it so i did (he went over to the couch to close his eyes & listen)...i asked him if he wanted to hear amelia, yes...i told him she ended with circle game, he asked me to play that so i said okay but i'm going to play you the song before it which you've never heard...so i snuck in borderline too...;~} afterwards he said it was amazing...that he loved her voice...i told him some critics were slamming her for her voice...he said well its like she was a violin & now she is a cello... then i listened to the whole thing over again in the dark & when it was over i let it go to the next cd on the changer...which happened to be lotc...morning morgantown sounded so scratchy & dull sonically compared to what i'd just been listening too...& her voice sounded like a little girls! then for free- with violin & clarinet! forshadowing of things to come... i've been asked to do some local cd reviews recently (i owe them my patty griffin review)...& i just put in my request to review t'log to be sure that at least in this small town she can get a glowing review...i told the arts editor that she deserved to have someone who 'got it' to do the review...let's hope they see it that way too... maybe its because i grew up early on listening to classical arrangements & broadway musicals (west side story, king & i...remember i grew up as a gay guy...lol) that makes this record so easy to listen to & so familiar... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:24:31 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Only the nose knows.... Regarding whose nose Bree wants to kiss, Franklin asks: << Hey Bree, now would that be Bob's nose, or mine? Any thoughts/comments on this Bob? >> That would be mine, Franklin. ;-) And dear Bree, you are welcome to the nose as long as you know the rest belongs to "Golden Eggs" Guzzi! We are determined to produce the first JMDL baby (or babies) before the next Jonifest. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:29:41 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Re "Sweet" Baby James? (njc) Victor the Victrola writes: << I am by no means irritated at anything and have no hostility in me and never have. >> Anyone who doubts this must meet Victor at a Jonifest. He is a kind man with a big heart and a shitload of talent. In fact, he's so nice he doesn't even play covers frisbee after Muller conks out! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:41:55 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: NJC, now Six Feet Under This is the only show I consider a must see - Six Feet Under! Right now throwing myself back into music has my tv off most nights,after years of addiction - not to mention my cable bill! As soon as the new season starts the cable goes back on! Even Frasier and Er have me yawning and channel surfing like a straight man on a Fall Football Sunday afternoon! And since I am sucking in my football pools I can't even watch football anymore! And yes any show that plays Joni and Laura are MUST sees! Peace, Susan NP:Joni/T'log/Amelia - --- nyroman writes: I don't watch much TV > but I'll sit down for this show. Very well done, and how can I not > love a show that has used both Joni Mitchell's and Laura Nyro's songs?? :-) > > Best, > > Gary > > Sybil Skelton wrote: > > > > Maggie asks: > > > > >What do you think > > >of the gay character (whose name I have forgotten, of course, since I'm > > >old), on Six Feet Under and the job that the actor who plays him does? > > > > I'd be interested too. There are actually 2 gay characters on that show > > (neither of whose names I can recall because I am also old) and I believe > > they have indulged in long, passionate kisses as well as some more graphic > > behavior as well. I think I've even seen full frontal male nudity on that > > show - quite shocking even for HBO. I think they do an excellent job with > > those characters, and the actors are amazing. But then everyone on that > > show is amazing. > > > > Sybil Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:49:27 -0500 From: vince Subject: Rocky Harry Potter Horror Picture Show njc Gage and I went to see Harry Potter again tonight, and we sat through it twice - obsessive behavior does not run in my family! - and I have decided that I like it much, much much more than I did last week. I think when I first saw it I was expecting a cinema experience unto itself, and this is not, it is the Chamber of Secrets and assumes that you know everything that happened in the first movie, and that put me off last week. But since Gage and I had discussed possible plot holes we watched it this time with a different eye and I realized that it is a brilliant piece of story telling, perhaps too sumptuous to take it all in the first time. There are some brilliant touches in the movie, the continuity is excellent for a movie with all these special effects, and the movie is really, really a well made film. So we enjoyed it tremendously. I am also amazed at how well it really stays true to the characters, there is n ot a false moment for any of them. I also picked up something I totally missed the first time - homage to Rocky Horror Picture Show! The actor who plays Lucius Malfoy (Draco's father) did a incredible take off on Tim Curry's Frank n Furter in the first scene when we meet him - and then sure enough the actor who plays Furth (spelling) did an amazing take off on Riff (a riff on Riff?) and then a few minutes later Kenneth Branaugh utters the immortal line, "Great Scott!" So I was loving it! The homage to RHPS was too good and in a movie this well crafted, obviously intentional, and on top of it all, it real works to set the characters - next time I see it I will bring toilet tissue to throw when the Great Scott! line comes up again! The joys of seeing a movie over and over is picking up on stuff like this, and actually it was a fairly cheap evening as seeing two shows kept us from shopping, which means I did not lay out $29.95 for a new Game Boy Advance cartridge, and $4.25 for Yu-gi-oh cards, and $1.29 for an ice cream cone, and $20 for a regular toy and then another $15 for a toy for Brady, my other grandson (who spends far too much time with his other grandparents and not with me) so that when I drop Gage off, we have something for Brady too. And why do I tell few Brady stories? Because I so seldom get him. Far too much time with the other grandparents, and besides, when he and I are together our only activity is I hold him and I say, "I hope I don't drop you" and then I drop him and catch him and he laughs like crazy and says, 'do it again" and after about 20 minutes of that I am all sweaty and exhausted and he says, "do it again" and I let his other grandparents take him before I collapse from exhaustion. Gage has fallen asleep to Harry Potter The Sorcerers Apprentice on the DVD and time for bed for me... a sweet evening because he said, Poppa, do you know what I did after you left last Saturday and I said no and he says, I cried because I didn't you to leave. Now after someone tells me that, I will sit through Harry Potter with him forever! thank you for indulging me. Telling my Gage stories gives me a chance to re-live the memories and get them written down on the same night they happened. Thank you. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:56:28 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Joni Will & Grace NJC I always thought that a lead character was supposed to be lovable or well liked. This guy (QAF) is a total Ass****! There is not one redeeming quality about him. And I am not speaking to his sexual prowness at all, but his very being is total jerk! Although I have friends who chase this very sort of person. Is he supposed to be this mysterious James Dean like brooder - he's NOT! And again - ahh - Sharon Gless, who was rumored for awhile to be living in Chicago. I'll never tell! LOL! And Alison, if you're out there - I am remembering your pledge this very moment - "Friends don't let friends post "fill in the blank." How exactly is this prevented - I need a little help! I feel myself getting revved up! ;-P) Peace, Susan NP: Joni/T'log/Woodstock - --- colin wrote: > > > > > > > >I happen to agree with you on QAF - I think it sucks - well except for Sharon Gless! > > > gless is wonderful in it. > like the uk version, i cannot see why thelead character is so attrative. > he is horrid and his 'looks' don't make up for that. I do enjoy watching > the program but it alos makes me cringe. most ignorant str8 people > watching it will juts have all, their nasty little prejudices confimred > by it. > > > > > > >Peace, > >Susan Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:06:48 -0500 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: TRAVELOUGE REVIEWS/W&G First off I must say that Travelouge is amazing soo much bettre than I thought..Now im not Mr classical music I dont know Stravinsky from Stroganoff but i do know beautiful music when i hear it...Im in love with Refuge..I like the I well up with affection line even more..and The Dawntreader awesome...As far as the reviews go Im not sure reviewers have ever "gotten" jonis music or Joni as a person for that matter..For the record will and grace is worth watching simply for megan mullally and Andrew...excelent observation and analogy with the blackface..its so true that there are absolutley no tv shows dealing with gay themes that star gay people...And Queer As Folk gives us all a bad name...i thought it was gonna be about gay hippies listenin to early joni at 420... thats a joke.. sorta.. have a great weekend everyone ***Kev*** ps New Tori amos album AMAZING!! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #514 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)