From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #505 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, November 21 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 505 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: wh*res, atheists and bare trees...njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Is Joni a poet? ["RSM" ] Joni & Grammys [Harry83house@aol.com] Re: Is Joni a poet? [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Is Joni a poet? [David Marine ] travelogue [Andrew Jones ] Re: Is Joni a poet? ["hell" ] re: Repaving Paradise, NY Daily News Review: full text ["c Karma" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #504 [Kardinel@aol.com] Re: Thanks from John NJC ["Lori Fye" ] T'log [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #349 [StDoherty@aol.com] vinyl DED ["joseph tischner" ] Madonna NJC [colin ] Erica raps... njc [vince ] Will-not gay enough? NJC [colin ] More humourless lawyers njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] Chicago Jazz Composers Collective 1st Anniversary (njc) [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Erica raps... njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Travelogue's "Sire of Sorrow" [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: Chicago Jazz Composers Collective 1st Anniversary (njc) [Susan Guzzi ] Travelogue CD-ROM ["kerry" ] Re: Erica raps... njc [vince ] slouching toward bethlehem ["patrick leader" ] Re: Is Joni a poet? Morrison (njc) ["kakki" ] Re: Is Joni a poet? Morrison (njc) [vince ] Re: Travelogue WOW ["kakki" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #350 [SAVtheWAVE@aol.com] Re: talking to americans njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #350 ["kakki" ] Re: Will-not gay enough? NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Asian Gentleman ["PAUL PETERSON" ] NJC: Michael Jackson [Little Bird ] Re: Erica raps... njc [Julius Raymond ] Re: Chicago Jazz Composers Collective 1st Anniversary (njc) [FredNow@aol.] Re: Chicago Jazz Composers Collective 1st Anniversary (njc) [Murphycopy@a] Re: 2 Joni Disappointments [Gerald McNamara ] Re: Chicago Jazz Composers Collective 1st Anniversary (njc) [Murphycopy@a] Travelogue - cost? [Little Bird ] Re: Travelogue - cost? NJC [dsk ] Re: Travelogue - cost? ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: 2 Joni Disappointments NJC [dsk ] Re: 2 Joni Disappointments NJC [dsk ] RE: Is Joni a poet? [John Low ] Travelogue - VALUE !!, *WAS* RE: Travelogue - cost? ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(L] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:42:44 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: wh*res, atheists and bare trees...njc Erica predicted: > Are > we destined just to become a culture of nudists? As we become more of a culture of obesity, I certainly hope this does NOT come to pass! ;~) I guess it comes down to conscious > parenting, Survey said......THE NUMBER ONE ANSWER! :~) It definitely is a challenge in our culture, Erica...yes, sex has sold since day 1, and will continue to do so. The problem is when you DON'T have a chance to limit the exposure to what your kids interact with. There's a radio station in town that has erected (no pun intended) a billboard advertising that they play 6 hits in a row, and they call it "Six Big Ones". In the picture there are three well-endowed girls in skimpy tops. It's got some of the folks here upset - I haven't seen it (and I've been driving all over town for days now!). Anyway, the bottom line is that it's the price we pay for living in a land where our freedoms are protected/exploited. I don't think a lot of it is what the founding fathers had in mind! ;~) Bob NP: Jackson Browne, "The Load Out" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:04:47 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: Is Joni a poet? Q: Would the words of a poem become lyrics if they are sung? A: Joni has done it in Slouching Toward Bethlehem using words taken from W.B. Yeats poem The Second Coming. For the poem see: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5379/TheSecondComing.html Ron in LA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 15:11:07 EST From: Harry83house@aol.com Subject: Joni & Grammys I just got in from doing some shows in North Dakota where we travelled from Minot to Bismarck and on to Fargo. Looking all across the U.S. Northern Plains I thought of Joni growing up nearby among all that space and sky. Awesome views up there. It really moved me at times. Anyway, I got home and went straight to the music shop and got TRAVELOGUE. It is a masterpiece. Plain and simple...a masterpiece. If those folks down at the Grammy Board don't nominate this for Album of the Year, then they are truly idiots. And I don't mean a sub-category like Pop Album or Jazz Album or Best Traditional Pop... I mean the BIG one. (She's a shoo-in for Packaging Grammy, too.) I avoided down-loading from the Nonesuch site, but WNYC-FM played some tracks 2 weeks ago on Jonathan Schwartz' great radio show and he just gushed about T'LOG. I hope she has at least a decent chart debut on BILLBOARD, too. OH, I really am loving this album. Just wanted to share with folks who are as excited as me. Bye! Harry NP: CHINESE CAFE (Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:12:00 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Is Joni a poet? Relayer wrote: What exactly is the difference between a poetry and >song > >lyrics,anyway? > > Sybil Responded: > According to my 10th grade English teacher, there is no difference. In an > effort to interest bored 15 year olds in poetry, our teacher brought in song > lyrics for us to study as poetry - Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Phil Ochs are some > I remember. And we went straight from that to T.S. Eliot. Her approach > worked. Just a big nod of agreement here Sybil. I too, used song lyrics in high school for poetry class, but it was MY idea and the one way to bring Joni to school with me! Sister Mary Anita was soooo easy to get off the track. She kinda dug Joni too! (Chelsea Morning & Electricity) I don't think IMHO that there is a difference between lyrics and poetry. I also recall Yoko Ono's version of the Rossetti poem, "Who Has Seen The Wind" showing a poem can become a song lyric, just as we have seen Joni's lyrics lay themselves out as poetry. Please refrain from any Yoko bashing! LOL! Certainly, some poems are not as song friendly or as purposeful as lyrical writing and vice versa. However, they are both word art. And festers may recall that Hell wrote one of those 2 forms, call it whichever you like, to which Marian added music. Which came first the lyric or the poem? That's meant to be rhetorical. And in closing Joni is most definitely a poet. Peace, Susan > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:20:09 -0800 From: David Marine Subject: Re: Is Joni a poet? Dear Clueless in Connecticut -- Of course she is! Compare her lyrics to the compositions performed at a poetry "slam" if you have any doubts. Joni is one of the best poets of her generation, although her style is not restricted by contemporary literary dogma. Poetry was thriving long before the written word, and was usually chanted, or sung. The root of the word "poet" is Indo-European, and means "creator." Best, David on 11/20/02 11:13 AM, Relayer211@aol.com at Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > I know Joni would consider herself a poet,but objectivly could she be called a > poet?What exactly is the difference betweena poetry and song lyrics,anyway? > > thanks, > "clueless in connecticut" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:38:28 +0000 From: Andrew Jones Subject: travelogue Anybody know if the new album Travelogue will follow Both sides now and be released on DVD audio? Andrew Jones ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:47:24 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Is Joni a poet? Susan wrote: > Just a big nod of agreement here Sybil. I too, used song lyrics in high school for poetry class, > but it was MY idea and the one way to bring Joni to school with me! Sister Mary Anita was soooo > easy to get off the track. She kinda dug Joni too! (Chelsea Morning & Electricity) Just as well it was a few years ago, and that Turbulent Indigo hadn't been released! I don't think she would have reacted quite so well to "The Magdalene Laundries"?! I agree that lyrics can definitely be poetry - I don't think you could class the lyrics of Hejira as anything else! Jim Morrison is another (not mentioned very often here - I've always wondered why?) who could be classed as more of a poet than a lyricist. Certainly "An American Prayer" is far more about the poetry than the music. Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:28:55 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Repaving Paradise, NY Daily News Review: full text The reviewer wrote, "...Mitchell sounds as if she were looking back at her earthly experiences from the afterlife, delighting in the perceptions and errors of her past, with a serene wisdom." The Lovely Tiger Bones? CC "There is the hope and the hopelessness I've witnessed all these years." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:41:27 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Is Joni a poet? Hi Hell! Susan wrote that hell wrote that Susan wrote: Sister Mary Anita was soooo easy to get off the track. She kinda dug Joni too! (Chelsea Morning & Electricity) Hell said: Just as well it was a few years ago, and that Turbulent Indigo hadn't been released! I don't think she would have reacted quite so well to "The Magdalene Laundries"?! LOL Hell, surely it would have been scandalous! But she may have been the sort to try and understand, not sure she is still a sister. But she was pretty politically involved. Remember I went to a very liberal school - despite it's being Catholic. I agree that lyrics can definitely be poetry - I don't think you could class the lyrics of Hejira as anything else! Jim Morrison is another (not mentioned very often here - I've always wondered why?) who could be classed as more of a poet than a lyricist. Certainly "An American Prayer" is far more about the poetry than the music. Hejira, along with several others, HOSL, Blue, screw it all of them in my opinion! And I agree, Morrison AND Patti Smith - rarely mentioned but two who can stand alone as poets, right along with our Joni. Not to mention loving them both musically! Peace, Susan Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:12:03 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #504 Hi Andrew, It's nice to see someone your age appreciate Joni's work. My son is 19 and he grew up on it and though he likes it a lot he listens to hip hop (alternative). I've listen to Joni since 68 and would love to hear your impressions of Travelogue. I listened to it today. I love some of the songs . I think the second disk is the strongest. I am going to listen to it tonight again. I am thrilled "The dawntreader" is on the recording.It was my favorite song for a long time and it's wonderful to hear the new recording though it makes me a bit melancholy about the passing of time and getting older. I am, by the way, from Maine. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:20:25 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Thanks from John NJC Colin writes, of John: > He thinks we are weird and that Joni is too! And you know, he may be right!! : ) More well wishes on the way ... Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:41:58 -0500 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: T'log Like so many of you I rushed out Tuesday and bought T'log with great aniticipation. I paid full price (something I don't often do)! I listened, and reacted to Amelia by crying (something else I don't often do)! The emotional depth of this performance is immense. When I listen, particularly to Amelia or Dawntreader, my defenses and mind-babble are stripped away. Pretty remarkable. Overall, I'm quite impressed with this recording. Probably one of her finest, though I'm sure it will take months or years for the impact to be fully appreciated. Definitely a couple of notches above BSN, which I quite enjoy. But I'm having trouble with a song or two, mostly Ludwig's Tune. It's the vocal performance that bothers me, it's more like a hoarse recitation. Perhaps JM was simply not up to the task that day -- or is it supposed to be a non-sung song? Perhaps someone can offer clues. By the way, I am hearing-impaired and one of my stereo speakers is ka-put! So I am definitely a challenged listener. It's gorgeous nonetheless. Bryan Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:58:05 EST From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #349 Here's what CD Now says about the new album Travelogue 2002 CD $31.48 November 19, 2002 On Joni Mitchell's 20th album, Travelogue, the high priestess of singer-songwriters raids her own back catalogue, revisiting songs that she believes have stood the test of time and her own stylistic transformations, using the London Symphony Orchestra to accompany her. This is not a nostalgia trip into the Wayback Machine, bringing back winsome souvenirs like "Big Yellow Taxi" and "Chelsea Morning." Instead, this collection shows Mitchell as the self-conscious and restless innovator, picking her way carefully through the minefields of human relationships, leaving a trail of eloquent breadcrumbs, as she describes the passing scenery with her evocative and off-kilter imagery. Back in 1974, Mitchell complained that she felt miscast singing some of the songs that she wrote as a younger woman, so almost 30 years later it's no surprise that she has abandoned many of her trademark songs for more sophisticated prescient fare. Included in the two-disc set are songs like her Dylanesque narrative "Otis and Marlena"; the still topical and prophetic "Amelia"; and her end-of-the-world tome, "Slouching Toward Bethlehem." The anthemic "Woodstock" has become a ponderous meditation on the meaning of life and purpose, as Mitchell, with the help of arranger Vince Mendoza (who worked with the chanteuse on her 2000 album of standards, Both Sides Now) changes both the emphasis and the pacing of the classic song that helped define a cultural revolution.Jaan Uhelszki CDNOW Contributing Writer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:11:59 -0500 From: "joseph tischner" Subject: vinyl DED I'm envious of all of you who've already gotten a copy of Travelogue! But I'm waiting for Santa to visit with that one (and Diana Krall's live CD.) Can I hold out? I've got the 14 buzztone (or whatever it's called) recordings to placate me til then. But my son just got new turntables to play/scratch/mix his rap crap on and he invited me up to play a RECORD. I had to dig in the basement to find something, and as soon as I happened on DED, I knew it was the one. I haven't heard it in years. Don't own it on CD, but will soon! What a fantastic record! I love the electronic Joni! I turned 'Shiny Toys' way up and rocked the house. The quality of sound on this turntable is great. What fun! I love the syncopation of 'Lucky Girl' too. Don't hear too much of that in anyone's music! Anyway, I've now got (access to) a turntable to play my hundreds of LPs and 45s. I'm in heaven! Anyone wanna come over Friday night to play records, drink beer and smoke some refer? (only kidding, I was thinking of 1975... sorry.) np: pretenders 'message of love' _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:11:45 +0000 From: colin Subject: Madonna NJC I noticed the posts about Madonna and tonight there was a programme about her tv. I cannot for the life of understand how people can slag her off as a no talent whore. She oozes talent. One may not enjoy her music much, but to deny that she has talent for performing/singing is just ..welll...stupid i guess. I am not a huge fan, owning only Ray of Light(which I love) and a few singles, Hanky panky(Brilliant!) and Like A Prayer being the standouts. I also thought she was very good in Evita and was a perfect choice for the film. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:13:06 -0500 From: vince Subject: Erica raps... njc Erica: > I guess what I mean by "hitting a wall" isn't the point when Tipper will > step in and "check the checkers" and no one can turn on MTV to see some good > T and A when the mood hits them , And I am definitely happy to live in > a country where if Christina Agularia wants to roll around like a muskrat in > heat she has all the freedom in the world to do so. I guess it comes down to > conscious parenting, and once again I am rambliing on an on. > So many Eminem references in one post, and all from one song, White America! For the name Erica, and MTV, we have the chorus: "White America! I could be one of your kids White America! Little Eric looks just like this White America! Erica loves my shit I go to TRL; look how many hugs I get!" As for Tipper Gore and her partner in censorship, Lynne Cheney, we have: "I am the derringer aimed at little Erica to attack her character The ringleader of this circus of worthless pawns Sent to lead the march right up to the steps of Congress and piss on the lawns of the White House To burn the {flag} and replace it with a Parental Advisory sticker To spit liquor in the faces of this democracy of hypocrisy Fuck you Ms. Cheney! Fuck you Tipper Gore!" And as for free speech in general: How many people are proud to be citizens of this beautiful country of ours? The stripes and the stars for the rights that men have died for to protect The women and men who have broke their necks for the freedom of speech the United States government has sworn to uphold or so we're told... ... I must've struck a chord with somebody up in the office Cause Congress keep tellin me, I ain't causin nuthin but problems And now they're sayin I'm in trouble with the government - I'm lovin it!..." Oh well, someone had to break up the T'log love feast with something nasty and for that I can always be counted on. Em also makes several Christina Aguilera references in other songs, but we can all assume that Em does not care for either her music nor Britney Spears' nor boy bands either, and particularly dislikes N'Sync. As for T'log and why I have this time on my hands: Amazon has not shipped my T'log yet - what is up with that - and I went to all the local stores and no one has it in stock. However, they did have in stock Jay-Z's newest, TLC's newest, and Matchbox 20's newest, so I stocked up on those. Amazing that I can buy great rap, r&b, and white boy rock in this town but can't get Joni Mitchell. What kind of thing is this? Just kidding, America, you know I love you. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:16:20 +0000 From: colin Subject: Will-not gay enough? NJC Also saw a prgramme about the success of Will and Grace. It was mentioned that there had been complaints that Will was 'not gay enough'. What the hell is that supposed to mean? is he supposed to be more like Jack? Are we all supposed to be like Jack? It seems a very stupid comment to me and smacks of fascism. There as many different gay people as there are any other sort of person and in fact most gay people are not even visible to the naked eye! Why do people insist on insisting that other people conform?(It was a gay person who complained about Will not being gay enough. How stupid is that?) bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:38:22 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: More humourless lawyers njc Hi folks, I don't normally cut & paste whole articles to the list, but given the recent discussion about over-zealous lawyers, this article from the Guardian today seems sadly apposite. Great punch line too! Azeem in London Not that Bill Wyman "I'm a total nobody," says Bill Wyman, a staff writer on the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, "and this just doesn't make any sense. Rock writers live for a star to notice them and when it happens they become bores who dine out on it. I'll be dining out on this for weeks." The subject of Wyman's dinner conversation will be the letter he received recently from Howard Siegel at Pryor Cashman Sherman & Flynn, a Manhattan legal firm representing former Rolling Stone Bill Wyman. The Atlanta Wyman stands accused of misleading his public, who will, Siegel alleges, confuse him with his bass-playing, restaurant-owning, Mandy Smith-marrying namesake. Wyman has only one defence for this alleged "passing off" - he uses the name he was born with. If anyone should be in the dock, it is his parents. He was ready to suggest to Siegel that henceforth his pieces be bylined "Not That Bill Wyman", but then he recalled that "The Real Bill Wyman" had been born William Perks and had only changed his name to Bill Wyman in 1964 - three years after the birth of Not That Bill Wyman. The Rolling Stones star was using his name! "I've been a writer for so long that people don't even mention my name any more," says Not That Bill Wyman. "It's just not an issue." NTBW says there is no possibility of confusion - he isn't English, doesn't play bass and has never had the good fortune to date younger women. NTBW thinks it may be a case of corporate lawyers pushing trademark protection too far, but Siegel is unrepentant. "Some may construe this as fair game for yet another bad lawyer joke," he says. "I can well understand that reaction as an initial response to a request that one not use, or clarify the use of, their own name. But the public policy interest in avoiding consumer confusion must also be considered. Has it never occurred to Mr Wyman the journalist that some of his readership might be confused when reading an article on the Rolling Stones written by Bill Wyman? NTBW says he intends to stick with Bill Wyman. "I've had a lot of lawyers offering to represent me and saying they would be happy to work on a pro bono basis," he says. "But if they did, I suppose the lead singer of U2 would sue me." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:48:56 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Chicago Jazz Composers Collective 1st Anniversary (njc) Dear friends, well-wishers, and the merely curious: I hope you can make it to this very special event. The Chicago Jazz Composers Collective celebrates its first anniversary in a concert presenting one composition each from all ten composers. Come for the great music, stay for the great hang. Fred ==================================================================== Chicago Jazz Composers Collective First Anniversary Concert Featuring Composers in Residence: Kathy Kelly: vibes Kelly Brand: piano Jeff Beer: trumpet Jo Ann Daugherty: piano and accordion Bob Dogan: piano Lloyd Brodnax King: flute Dave Onderdonk: guitar Mitch Paliga: saxophone Fred Simon: piano Don Tisch: guitar Ten composers ... ten compositions, enhanced by: Dan DeLorenzo: bass, Ryan Bennett: drums Kelly Sill: bass, Tim Davis: drums Profuse thanks to all who have come to support us during our first year. Copious thanks to all the musicians and guest composers who have helped make these concerts so much fun. ==================================================================== Sunday, November 24, 2002 at the Green Mill, 4802 N. Broadway, Chicago, IL 2-4 PM (773) 878-5552 ==================================================================== Chicago Jazz Composers Collective Mission Statement The Chicago Jazz Composers Collective formed in July 2001 with two specific goals: to develop an audience for original jazz music, and to encourage the creation and performance of new jazz compositions. By hosting regular performances of new works, we seek to engage the public in the joy of experiencing new music. By joining as a Collective, we aim to create an environment that encourages composers to freely explore new musical territory, hear new works by fellow composers, collaborate in writing and performing, and present these works to an audience. ==================================================================== ***ABSOLUTELY WE WILL SPREAD OUR GROOVE AND INTERNATIONAL FEELING*** (As always, if you are receiving this and don't want to, or are not receiving this and do want to, or are receiving duplicates, or are receiving duplicates, please let me know.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:57:40 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Erica raps... njc In a message dated 11/20/2002 7:13:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, revrvl@chartermi.net writes: > Amazing that I can buy great rap, r&b, and > white boy rock in this town but can't get Joni Mitchell. What kind of > thing is > this? > Sounds like a Detroit thing to me! ;~) Bob, born in the heart of Wayne County PS: Vince, speaking of rap, The Roots new one is finally hitting the streets next Tuesday, I think...may be worth a checking out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:06:27 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Travelogue's "Sire of Sorrow" Damn! I wanted the asian in the painting to be me! Oh well.... maybe next time.... (big smile on my face, by the way) Much Joni Jamie Zoob "J.David Sapp" wrote:Bob said -Who is the asian gentleman in the one painting? His name is Chogyam Trungpa, a Tibetan lama and the inspiration for Refuge. She tells the story in the 4/92 Interview mag. interview and mentions him before singing Borderline in some live performances. Do you have any of those? :~) peace, david - --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:11:41 EST From: KLCass21@aol.com Subject: T'log Hello - I am thrilled with every aspect of Travelogue. This is a first class package, from cover to cover. But, to me what really makes this project so artistically successful is Joni's voice. I love the occasional dry crack in her voice on certain lyrics. This recording is powerful and an emotional listen for me. Thank you Joni! Your artistry continues to amaze and inspire me. Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:14:31 -0500 From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Erica raps... njc > F*ck you Tipper Gore!" *(censored) Funny you should mention Tipper Gore. I'll be seeing her and Al up close and personal at a book signing here in Marin County, California in a couple hours. They'll be reading excerpts from _Joined at the Heart: The Transformation of the American Family_ and _The Spirit of Family_. You can get a signed copy at www.bookpassage.com or Amazon. I think I'll mention your "Em" during the Q&A, vince, and will report any comments she has might have here later. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:39:24 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Coming up for H2o.. so immersed in T'log.....I have practically been listening non-stop..in the car..laptop.....stereo.. IT has exceeded my every expectation.....chills chills and more chills... Thank you Joni..thanks so much for the gift..... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bree.. Oh.. my very favorites so far: YDFT,STB,TSOS,CC,SK,TD.. The mens chorus on SIRE...WOW....the cadence is outstanding... _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:56:09 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Chicago Jazz Composers Collective 1st Anniversary (njc) Hi Fred! I am really going to "try" and make this, I live just west of the Green Mill about 2 miles. I would love to meet you, since I missed doing that last time I saw you at the Mill. This sounds like a great event. Best of success with this project. Any other Chicagoans out there? Come on down - mini fest anyone? Peace, Susan NP: Joni - Cherokee Louise - --- FredNow@aol.com wrote: > I hope you can make it to this very special event. The Chicago Jazz Composers > Collective celebrates its first anniversary in a concert presenting one > composition each from all ten composers. Come for the great music, stay for > the great hang. > > Chicago Jazz Composers Collective > First Anniversary Concert > > Featuring Composers in Residence: > Fred Simon: piano > > Sunday, November 24, 2002 > > at the Green Mill, 4802 N. Broadway, Chicago, IL Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:01:38 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Travelogue CD-ROM Jimmy wrote: >Oh the enhanced CD is GREAT. The first thing when I got home was to put disk >1 in the computer. "Refuge of the Roads" comes on and you get to see more >wonderful Joni painitings, all of the lyrics, credits, contacts (and yes they >have a link to JoniMitchell.com- alright Jim Johanson!!!!). I finally had the chance to look at this with Travelogue playing in the background. A wonderful sensory overload! In one section on the CD-ROM, there is a place to "Join Joni's e-mail list." Does anyone know what this is all about? Is she going to write to all of us? ;>) Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:10:37 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Erica raps... njc JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: "Funny you should mention Tipper Gore. I'll be seeing her and Al up close and personal at a book signing here in Marin County, California in a couple hours. I think I'll mention your "Em" during the Q&A, vince, and will report any comments she has might have here later." And I democratically respond that I still have my Gore bumper stickers on the cars and am leaning towards working to re-elect him in 2004. So tell Al that, please. And if Tipper says anything interesting, I'd love to hear it! I really do think Al is the man and I have a lot of respect for Tipper other than her music thing - and in the videos played on tour, Em is much more unhappy with Lynne Cheney than with Tipper - but the rap worked so well, so could he leave it out? By the way, fancy packaging on the new Jay-Z. And I am hurt you never sang woo with Mica Jaggar to me on a cell phone. I am very jealous of Paz. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:08:27 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: slouching toward bethlehem hey guys, kay and i are hanging together tonight and we've been looking through the travelogue book and listening to various songs. i think i can safely say that kay's as blown away by the artwork as me. she just noticed that in the first of the 9/11 paintings one can see the shape of a lion's face in the smoke from tower one. thought that was notable and worth reporting. kay also noticed, which i hadn't, that each of the paintings is mirrored at the bottom. we immediately switched disks and put on 'slouching'. i have a question. the dark woman in the blue painting with the white bracelet and the butterfly... who? patrick np - love, corinthians p.s. also got pazfest cd today and listened to most. susan cowsill (!). bryan (!) others [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:04:38 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Is Joni a poet? Morrison (njc) Hell wrote: > Jim Morrison is another (not mentioned very often here - I've always wondered why?) who could be classed > as more of a poet than a lyricist. Certainly "An American Prayer" is far > more about the poetry than the music. Growing up here in Morrison land, he was defintely considered a brilliant poet. I have friends of middle age (cough) who still have framed posters of him up on their walls. But I've noticed in recent years that a lot of people in the larger world seem to have a somewhat snobbish disdain for him, to the point of brushing him and the Doors off as being trite and "manufactured." It baffles me, but then maybe thinking he was an original and somewhat groundbreaking poet was just "provincial" taste. I think the music was also groundbreaking but that is disputed in some circles, too. Funny how we never hear of a Joni connection with Jim. He lived right there in Laurel Canyon by the General Store for awhile. Maybe he was too intense for the more mellow acoustic crowd. Yet Crosby did write that beautiful ode to him on the first CPR album. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:51:52 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Is Joni a poet? Morrison (njc) Kakki I agree that Morrison was a poet, a very important writer in the development of musical lyrics. Nothing manufactured about Jim at all, and I am not even a Morrison fan, but I can respect his talent. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:23:29 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Travelogue WOW Deb wrote: > And my take on the naked lady-Osama picture was different from what Joni described > herself, so go figure! My first impression was that Joni was depicting fundamentalism and sexual exploitation as >opposite faces of the same degradation. Now that I have seen the actual painting I agree that there is a whole lot more going on in it. When she described it to me I envisioned more of a just-for-fun cartoon image. Couldn't have been more wrong - the painting is astounding on so many levels. > And the phrase "made redundant" -- in British English, that means "laid off," am I right? Still trying to figure it all out. Don't mean to tell tales out of school but since she did relate to the large audience at her tribute in Toronto (and also a big in the LA Times) the same things she related to me, maybe it is alright to pass this along. She and Donald were together on 9/11 clued to the TV set. Something or other happened and Donald ended up getting angry with her saying she was always "repeating herself." They broke up that day. So Joni was reeling from both events in that time period between 9/11 and the next few days creating those paintings. Maybe to work through it somehow with humor, she told herself she would create a new school of painting called "repetitism." You see that in the 9/11 paintings they are divided in half with the mirror image repeated upside down. "Repetitism" and also a metaphor for her world being "turned upside down." So the "made redundant" tatoo on the woman in the Bin Laden painting could have a lot of meanings - both broad and personal. In a sense, Joni, being found redundant by her love, was also "laid off" from her relationship that day. Always that duality thing....;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:19:36 EST From: SAVtheWAVE@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #350 In a message dated 11/20/02 10:07:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > What an astounding work in every way. It is overwhelming. > > Kakki > To say it is astounding work in every way is exactly right and yes, it is overwhelming. I have not been able to absorb it all as yet. There are so many paintings that need interpretation. I am amazed at the Osama and Bush paintings, in particular and their juxtapostion to one another ( naturally ), but I am wondering more about the other figures that have been purposely placed in each ot those pieces. I am especially curous about the older woman that stands behind Bush and the look that she is giving him while he obviously has been brought somewhere, he must have wished he never was brought to. The two female figures in the Osama painting clearly shows the two different ways of life of women, a strict fundamentalist vs.a very free individual. I could go on, but wanted to read more of what others thought of these two pieces, in particular . Yes Kakki, the eggs have intrigued me too. Just today, while looking at the eggs in the palms of her hands, I thought that perhaps they represented the fragile componenet to life. Any other thoughts? Joe ( in rhode island ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:37:23 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: talking to americans njc > Inferiority complex? If we do have one, it shouldn't last long after seeing > even one of Rick Mercer's "Talking to Americans" specials -- there's one > this Friday at 8. I've marked it on my calendar because it is such a > bellylaugh. As I sit there cackling and shrieking over the wool he pulls > over his American interviewees' eyes, I always wonder if Americans would > find the show half as funny as we do. Travis & I both watch 'This Hour Has 22 Minutes' where a lot of these segments are aired. We both think they're hilarious! THH22M has some excellent political satire type humor, much better than SNL, imo. (Although not being Canadian, I don't always know what they're lampooning.) I loved it when Rick Mercer was trying to get a referendum to make Stockton Day change his first name to Doris. And Marge Delahantey, Warrior Princess is an absolute riot! Mary Walsh is a genius! Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:58:22 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #350 Hi Joe, Nice to see you back again. I've looked at the placement of the paintings a few times now and have my own conclusions about them. They make perfect and beautiful sense to me, but maybe it is best for each individual to see them in their own meaning so I hesitate from giving my own interpretation. That's what makes her so amazing - the interpretations can be endless because she is so universal in her art. As far as the two egg theme, again I think there are many interpretations - all the ones given here so far I agree with. My first rough take was that maybe one egg represents the ongoing birth and creation of her earthly art and the other represents the birth and creation of her child and grandchildren. "Here is what I offer to the world." Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:05:17 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Will-not gay enough? NJC Colin writes: << It was mentioned that there had been complaints that Will was 'not gay enough'. >> When people give me that line of crap I just swat 'em with my pocketbook. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:37:46 -0500 From: "PAUL PETERSON" Subject: Re: Asian Gentleman Thanks to whoever identified this man. I thought it was a painting of Colin Powell and I simply could not get my mind around that. After the paintings of 9/11, Bush and the flag, a front and center painting of Colin Powell was simply too much for me to take at this moment (having only listened to the first CD). Only an artist as great as Joni could make me go past these images to try to figure out WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING ON AN ALBUM OF HER MUSIC. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:43:28 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: NJC: Michael Jackson He terrifies me. He really strikes fear in my heart. Not only is he a crass genetic hybrid (Norma Desmond, Diana Ross and E.T.) but he's taken to dangling infants over balcony's and waltzing through zoos with children in purple mesh veils. He's going to have a very bad ending, I can feel it. Something horrendous will happen to him. His nose will implode to reveal the gateway to Hell and it will be Thriller all over again. I don't want to witness it or even read about it. Just had to comment on how horrifying and sad I find that pathetic creature we call Michael Jackson. - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:42:03 -0800 From: Julius Raymond Subject: Re: Erica raps... njc > And I am hurt you never sang woo with Mica Jaggar to me on a cell phone. I am very jealous of Paz. > > Vince Haha! There are many reasons one might be jealous of Paz, I suspect, but that certainly shouldn't be one of them. And be careful what you wish for Vince, the Stones are rolling back through here in February, I might just dial you up and deliver a very funny valentine. :-) So, I went to the book signing and reading, but didn't have an opportunity to tell Al or Tipper jack, as it was quite a packed house. Moreover, the topic of the day was "family" and I didn't want to be off point...I really haven't heard about Tipper being associated with the "warning label" issue in a good long while, either. Years. I know nothing about Mrs. Cheney. I did notice that Jay-Z had a new release when I went to Billboard.com to see if they had early numbers on Joni's sales. Imagine my chargrin when I saw the photo...I thought "Jay-Z" was a woman! My bad. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:27:02 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Chicago Jazz Composers Collective 1st Anniversary (njc) Susan, If you, or any other jonilistas make it, please say hello. Hope to see y'all. Fred In a message dated 11/20/02 7:56:14 PM, groovchacha@yahoo.com writes: >Hi Fred! > >I am really going to "try" and make this, I live just west of the Green >Mill about 2 miles. I >would love to meet you, since I missed doing that last time I saw you at >the Mill. This sounds >like a great event. Best of success with this project. Any other Chicagoans >out there? Come on >down - mini fest anyone? > >Peace, >Susan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:32:43 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chicago Jazz Composers Collective 1st Anniversary (njc) Fred writes: << If you, or any other jonilistas make it, please say hello. Hope to see y'all. >> SUSAN ! ! ! If that's the same night you'll be ovulating your golden Guzzi eggs, remember - -- we have a date! XO, --Bob, Viagra-free and ready! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 5:32:49 UTC From: Gerald McNamara Subject: Re: 2 Joni Disappointments hell wrote: > > I called our local Borders store today, thinking they'd be up with the play. > Travelogue is current "on order" and will probably get here in about 3 or 4 > weeks. And it will cost $68.95. > > Then I checked the website of the largest independent music store here in > Auckland, and they have it listed. It can be ordered from the UK, and will > take 3 or 4 weeks to arrive. And the cost is $84.95. > I know how you feel, Hell. I've seen Travelogue here in Melbourne for $78 ( which is $43.50 US). Although I paid more than that for the hat-box last time, I'm gunna have to wait for a local release. It's just too expensive for me. -Gerald ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 00:37:10 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chicago Jazz Composers Collective 1st Anniversary (njc) Fred writes: << If you, or any other jonilistas make it, please say hello. Hope to see y'all. >> SUSAN ! ! ! If that's the same night you'll be ovulating your golden Guzzi eggs, remember - -- we have a date! XO, --Bob, Viagra-free and ready! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:48:40 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Travelogue - cost? How much is the album in the U.S., guys? It's not out in Canada yet, but I can gage the price by how much it is in the U.S. I know it's more than your average $16.99 CD. Those import prices you cited are outrageous, Gerald! - -Andrew Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:09:39 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Travelogue - cost? NJC It's $34.99 at Virgin records in NYC. I believe that's the full U.S. list price, and the price goes down from there depending on the store. Debra Shea Little Bird wrote: > > How much is the album in the U.S., guys? It's not out > in Canada yet, but I can gage the price by how much it > is in the U.S. I know it's more than your average > $16.99 CD. > > Those import prices you cited are outrageous, Gerald! > > -Andrew > Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:10:37 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Travelogue - cost? > How much is the album in the U.S., guys? It's not out > in Canada yet, but I can gage the price by how much it > is in the U.S. I know it's more than your average > $16.99 CD. > I saw it at Tower today for $28.99. But I'm waiting til I can get to Borders and redeem the very nice gift that a very generous JMDLer sent me for answering a political question on the list. (Thanks Bree!) Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:22:50 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: 2 Joni Disappointments NJC Hell and Gerald, Those prices really are high! And what a long wait! Is that always the case? or is this time delay unusual? Have you thought to have people here in the U.S. buy a copy and mail it to you? I don't know what the postage would be, but it would definitely get to you sooner than 3-4 weeks and the total cost may be less than what you'll pay there. Anyone know where the lowest-cost T'logs are selling? And be willing to send them along to the antipodeans on the list? (If Hell and Gerald are interested, that is.) Debra Shea Gerald McNamara wrote: > > hell wrote: > > > > I called our local Borders store today, thinking they'd be up with the play. > > Travelogue is current "on order" and will probably get here in about 3 or 4 > > weeks. And it will cost $68.95. > > > > Then I checked the website of the largest independent music store here in > > Auckland, and they have it listed. It can be ordered from the UK, and will > > take 3 or 4 weeks to arrive. And the cost is $84.95. > > > > I know how you feel, Hell. > I've seen Travelogue here in Melbourne for $78 ( which is $43.50 US). > Although I paid more than that for the hat-box last time, I'm gunna > have to wait for a local release. It's just too expensive for me. > -Gerald ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:34:19 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: 2 Joni Disappointments NJC Oh, and then how to pay for it? There is that question... Debra Shea dsk wrote: > > Anyone know where the lowest-cost T'logs are selling? And be willing to > send them along to the antipodeans on the list? (If Hell and Gerald are > interested, that is.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:05:50 -0800 (PST) From: John Low Subject: RE: Is Joni a poet? clueless in connecticut wrote: >I know Joni would consider herself a poet,but >objectivly could she be called a poet?What exactly is >the difference betweena poetry and song >lyrics,anyway? I think there is a difference. A song is made up of lyrics and music, each an equally important and essential component of a composition that would not exist were either to be eliminated. In other words the lyric is written as part of a larger work. A poem, on the other hand, is written as an independent whole. It stands alone as a complete work, its music the rhythms of human speech. Despite this, however, a lyric can occasionally stand on its own and a poem can sometimes be put to music. But then, of course, both become something different! While Joni has put her creative effort into song writing I do believe she could also write good poetry. Wish she would!! John (clueless in Sydney) Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 02:19:17 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Travelogue - VALUE !!, *WAS* RE: Travelogue - cost? In a bricks-and-mortar store in the USA (not America), I paid $29.98 plus tax. Like everyone else who likes images, I was completely un-prepared for the built-in book. There's a scope to the images, a quiet claim that she's completely anticipated all of the disappointment and hope of the past year. As her own curator, she's found the same disappointment, the same hope, in her own catalog of songs, painted new images that make the old recordings seem like... well they seem like she was foreshadowing this collection. With finesse she chose background color & texture. I don't think I've yet seen anyone mention the completely unexpected and intimate setting for the paintings. (Hint: Wally Breese, bless his soul, would have recognized the setting.) With characteristic brevity and precision, she added in only enough text make you nod, and anticipate hearing those words in a NEW setting, as she's just shown you the themes updated in a new setting. As Joni did in her best work, she's working with new media. Here, she's in a place to reflect her old themes, especially those of danger and longing for love into new context. She's no longer angry about having the 'hits' on one disc. This collection is Joni, the master, reflecting on her whole catalog. More than 'hits'; more than 'misses'; more than the live albums; more than the PwWaM video. She's now accepted herself in some new way. She seems to be going through a process of going, "Ya know, it's okay to hold these up for exultation. This is very solid work. These themes hold up. These songs hold up. Here, it's as if she writing a post that any of us might, saying >>>>>> Yeah. This work is universal. Yeah, "Muslims hold up Washington." It's true today. Yeah, "You're a mean ol' daddy but (gee whiz) I like you." It's true today. "If they just once glimpsed their groom, then they'd know." It's true today. You're damn straight it's true today. >>>>>> She knows that these themes are reflected in today's news, today's friends, today's newly extended family, and the never-ending process of painting. And yeah, it's okay to put them together because, as Neil Young said from the stage after 911 "everything means something different now." I sense a new pride though. We're not listening to the giddy chanteuse doing songs of love and travel. On top of that, the images are presented in HER OWN context, as if someone was allowed to document an intimate visit to the master's open air studio, catching an accidental glimpse of a hand putting the finishing touches on this one, as the visitor glimpses another canvas, already finished, out of focus and tilted slightly away in the middle ground. Musically, this set also involves exploration of setting. No it isn't just merely changing instrumentation. Vince Mendoza has really done some bold work. For example, the original "The Sire of Sorrow" was a pastel warm-up for this colossal thump in the solar plexus he's devised. He uses many tempi, many different textures. He loves contrast as much as Joni does. I love the dramatic changes in loudness and Joni's sometimes radical new takes in character and delivery. ************** ************** ************** ************** I have to go to bed now. I wish I could type and type and type all night as I did during the BSN tour was on and PazFest was happening. I'm sure there's much more to say. I've barely scratched the surface of discussing the music. I was completely unprepared for this. I thought it was gonna be a total retread. I thought she was farming out the creativity. I thought of it as a sequel. I was mocking this project a year ago, calling it "Both Sides Now Again: Part 2 (The Sequel)" I was wrong. When her writing goes on hold, the painting flowers. Boy howdy, has it ever! Maybe the audience doesn't buy CDs to thumb through the artwork. The old clichi that "Nobody ever left a Broadway musical, humming the scenery" proves false for me this week. Too damn bad. It works for me. It's as successful at achieving its goal as Springsteen's masterful "The Rising" was. Rock on, Joan. Holy cow, Joan. Where does this stuff COME FROM?!?!?!? Lama ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #505 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)