From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #502 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 19 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 502 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: the Canadian mentality [] Re: the Canadian mentality NJC [] NJC Something nice to click on [Franklin Shea ] Re: Joni's calling it quits...Joni going indie..Joni NOT quitting ["Brend] Finally I have it!! ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Joni Mitchell Not Quitting [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Travelogue review - OUCH ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Joni's calling it quits...Joni going indie..Joni NOT quitting ["Lori] Re: wh*res, atheists and bare trees...njd ["mack watson-bush" ] Travelogue [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: First, they came for the (fill in the blank) ... njc ["Lori Fye" ] While Muslims stick up Washington [Little Bird ] T'log ["blonde in the bleachers" ] Re: NJC - Woody, Altman, Sayles [Franklin Shea ] Re: Joni TV documentary [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: NJC More praise (or is it prays?) for the Shea's [dsk ] NZ Music ["flopit" ] Re: "TRAVELOGUE" artwork ["kakki" ] T'log [Merk54@aol.com] Re: T'log ... NJC [Susan Guzzi ] Re: NJC More praise (or is it prays?) for the Shea's [Franklin Shea ] Re: "TRAVELOGUE" artwork ["kakki" ] Re: NJC More praise (or is it prays?) for the Shea's [dsk ] Just in with Travelogue [SAVtheWAVE@aol.com] NJC Re: Just in with Travelogue [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: wh*res, atheists and bare trees...njc ["mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: the Canadian mentality one of the > most important Canadian people, Oscar Peterson. Didn't know Oscar Peterson is Canadian. I always assumed he is American. But then I was just as surprised to know that David Foster and Bryan Adams were also Candians. > Jane Sieberry, Always loved Jane Siberry, Loreena McKennitt and Mary Margaret O'Hara. Joseph in Manila (whose favorite movie is JESUS OF MONTREAL) np: Toi jamais - Catherine Deneuve "Huit Femmes" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:36:26 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: the Canadian mentality NJC apologies for not putting the NJC tag earlier ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:41:05 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: NJC Something nice to click on >Dear fellow JMDLers, >This came today just when I needed it most. I hope it arrives for >some of you just when you need it most! > >Love, Franklin > > >Please click on this: >rightnow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:47:57 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Joni's calling it quits...Joni going indie..Joni NOT quitting On 13 Nov 2002 at 14:38, KJHSF@aol.com, Kate and others have written: > Hell, why doesn't she start her own label and sell her stuff on the > Internet? According to the Toronto Star, Joni has said: "All the bosses in that industry have been so nice since I knocked it, everything's been smoothed over. So let's get on with it." For me this says it all. Joni doesn't want to be an indie. She wants the big boys to kiss her ass and treat her like a legend. And I'm not mad at her for it. Brenda - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:55:52 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Finally I have it!! I went to my local Best Buy store this morning...Travelogue was not even listed among the CD's released today. Outrageous!! Indignant..I went up to a clerk and asked: "Do you have Joni's Mitchell's new release..Travelogue?" Clerk: "Duh..I dunno..who...Joni Mitchell? "I'll check." I waited a good twenty minutes...the arse never did come back. I went across the street to Border's. Again..they were not promoting it..and it was not out. But..alas, the clerk at Borders knew what I was talking about and handed me over T'log.. WOW..the artwork alone...Joni the master, is right... on to the music... Bree _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:58:53 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Not Quitting YAHOOOO!!!!! This made me think about the card I gave Larry Klein with the gift for Joni last Wednesday. It included a brief note to which I added a small p.s.. It read: Please! Don't stop creating new music! I'd like to think she read it and it iinfluenced her reconsideration in some very small way. Phyliss, thrilled at this news...wondering what might inspire her... Victor Johnson wrote: > Joni Mitchell `not sour,' will keep making music > Singer `not bitter' after threatening to quit recording Legend receives > Canadian honour at AGO ceremony ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:05:42 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Travelogue review - OUCH Bob wrote: > Well, it may "ouch" but you can tell that the guy really loves Joni & > is familiar with her entire body of work, not just C&S. Referencing > PWWAM is a dead giveaway to that. As much as the RS critic didn't do > his homework, this writer did. Yes, I'll have to agree that Matthew Gilbert is a fan and did do his homework. Joseph wrote: > In short I enjoyed his piece and even if he intended to make the > review negative, its quite obvious that his regard for Joni has not > diminished. And I truly appreciate that, and the review is definitely well written. But I'm still having a bit of trouble with it. I think T'log -- or at least the cuts I've heard so far, since I don't yet HAVE the CDs -- is gorgeous and lush and oh, just all of that. Better than BSN in many ways. It's as if Joni determined what should REALLY be considered (at least some of) her greatest songs, and instead of repackaging them "as was" she chose to give us the gift of hearing them the way SHE thinks they ought to be heard today. It's not that I think Joni is flawless. I have my least favorites, too: CMIAR and TTT are rarely heard in my house or car. But I have a strong feeling that I'll listen to T'log again and again and again. Sure, I would have preferred all new material. However, Joni took a lot of time recording this album, and I think it will earn its place my list of favorites. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:07:17 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Joni's calling it quits...Joni going indie..Joni NOT quitting > She wants the big boys to kiss her ass and treat her like a legend. As well they should, because she IS a legend. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:14:50 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: wh*res, atheists and bare trees...njd Lieve wrote: > do kids perceive as "normal" when they're fed this stuff all day? Of course there is that question again. Just what is "normal" and who is defining it? Would suppose that most folks here think they are normal (according to the standard definition) but in the general populace I doubt they would be found as such. A hundred years ago many of us would have been killed for what we consider normal, for us. Have pondered over Erica's comments and find them with much validity as I, too, have struggled with what I find acceptable or objectionable, in regards to my neices and nephews. My nephew came home from school one day, while living for a time with me, and announced "my friends think you are too strict." I was put aback by that comment and realized that, though liberal in some areas, I was extremely rigid in others (the children I deemed proper for him to play with, what movies I would let him view, etc.). I, too, have been shocked and disgusted by the crotch grabbing entertainers but worry that if we, as a society, start putting parameters and controls over what others may say and do then we are just as guilty as the Puritans of stifling freedom. Just what is our ultimate goal? Maybe it is just me, sensitive to those issues, since not so very long ago, and perhaps again in the future, homosexuals were not allowed out of their cages without special circumstance. But who draws the lines, who makes the rules? And where do they stop? Do they stop? Yes, in the sixties a singer with a cute > face may have sold more than someone less attractive and that was exploited > too, and from there on we had more and more suggestive moves and pouting > lips and the works, Didn't our parents say much the same things that are being said today, about the music and societal changes of the 60's? Maybe we all should just take it all off and take away some of the excitement and the intrigue. my own desire to live and let live and be tolerant, I see it as > my duty to react against this cheap slutty trend. I don't see the trend. Dancehall girls way back when. Marilyn in the 50's. Janis in the 60's. Maybe when forced to look at things differently, when it involves our own young and our own motives, we are not quite as evolved or as free as we once ascribed to be. the only "correct" love relationship is one on one. If someone feels (or > expresses) love for more than one person, and it is considered more than > friendship (which I think is an artificial distinction anyway) then they are > judged as having "cheated" and the other party is made to feel betrayed and > hurt and jealous. A profound thought that deserves more attention, but, one that could be classified as rather abnormal in this culture and could be seen by others as more or less the same downing down of our morals and our society. How can we decry sexual displays on one hand and on the other put forth the notion that one on one relationships are somehow not correct? Who makes the rules? I surely don't have the answers any more than the next person, just my thoughts. mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:26:51 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: First, they came for the (fill in the blank) ... njc In a message dated 11/19/02 9:43:24 AM, lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com writes: >very glad that Ashcroft doesn't want to include my guns in his grand >scheme Although, unfortunately, his guns are much bigger than yours. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:29:16 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell: Hedwig and the Angry Inch (NJC?) >>I'm not sure how someone could confuse Joni Mitchell with John Cameron Mitchell, but ... whatever.<< I was in a 'mediateca' here the other and checked out what CDs they have for hire and I found that there were 10 joni cds available to listen to at home. I checked out the individual entries and found that the Hejira cover in fact shows 'Full Metal Jacket'. Anyone figure this out? mikeinbcn NP Lush Life - Coltrane/Eckstine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:46:26 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Next Station, Hope. NJC Mike asked: >>Are these plaintiffs a) bravely standing up against piracy, b) greedy bastards, c) dickheads who can't take a joke or d) unwitting victims of voracious lawyers who are desperate to get every penny out of a recording session that took place 7 years ago.<< Brenda replied (Mike snipping here and there) >>First, these actors performed a work for a government agency. In the U.S. works of the government are not subject to copyright. << Spain is made up of 17 autonomous regions with and the public transport system generally falls under the ambit of the autonomous area government rather than the state government. I don't suppose this makes a difference to your remarks. >>I find it hard to believe that the agency didn't have them sign a buyout agreement with regard to ownership of the recording. So they wouldn't have rights as individuals unless the work for hire agreement was not a buy out.<< Seems strange to me too >>I suspect no one advised the artist to get clearance because government works are not subject to copyright in Spain...but I could certainly be wrong. << Manu Chao's disk (as you know, Brenda) is absolutely full of samples from everywhere, including his own answerphone, samples in many languages and from many sources. I imagine that his use was a protest against intellectual copyright, but I could be wrong. I think he is moving towards his own label and more control over his product. >>I also think that here in the U.S., Chao could make a reasonable case for a parody use.<< But this is Spain, where the ex national chief of police walked out of prison today after stealing 9 million dollars and he still has it. He only has to return to prison to sleep. And another financier who swindled 18 million dollars is about to leave the prison with almost no money recovered. He robbed the police benevolent fund to make up the losses that the Catholic church lost on bad investments made on his advice. His partners include the sister of high-ranking members of the govt. Mean while, teenagers arrested in anti-globalisation demonstrations sit in prison waiting trial. We have no sense of parody when the reality is so weird. >>This is certainly an interesting question. Keep us posted on the outcome.<< I'm on it mike in bcn NP Coltrane. My favourite things ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:48:54 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Travelogue Stephen (from Vancouver/Topsfield) and I just went out to get two official copies of Travelogue, and immediately threw the enhanced CD into the computer. This is SOOOOOOOOOO COOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D What fun to have her paintings shown in a gallery-like formula! This CD set is worth EVERY penny IMHO. As I said before, I'm *really* loving this CD!! And you are so right Maggie, the Boston Globe article which we saw this morning was awful! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:57:02 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: First, they came for the (fill in the blank) ... njc > >very glad that Ashcroft doesn't want to include my guns in his grand > >scheme > > > Although, unfortunately, his guns are much bigger than yours. True, but to speak in what I imagine to be Ashcroft's terms, he's a wuss if he's not going to use something you actually have to AIM. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:02:02 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Re: Travelogue review - OUCH Quoting Lori Fye: > > "And I truly appreciate that, and the review is definitely well > written. But I'm still having a bit of trouble with it. I think > T'log -- or at least the cuts I've heard so far, since I don't yet HAVE > the CDs -- is gorgeous and lush and oh, just all of that. Better than > BSN in many ways. It's as if Joni determined what should REALLY be > considered (at least some of) her greatest songs, and instead of > repackaging them "as was" she chose to give us the gift of hearing them > the way SHE thinks they ought to be heard today." The first thing that jumped out at me from the Boston Globe review was the comment about many of Joni's fans will not want to listen to Travelogue! A tad cheeky, I thought. Balance was decent, however. I have had the pleasure of listening to the discs the past few days, and I am truly blown away. Think this will be right up there as one of my faves! Best Stephen in Vancouver oops! Topsfield ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:08:06 -0500 From: "Erica L. Trudelle" Subject: Re: wh*res, atheists and bare trees...njd Mack wrote: >I don't see the trend. Dancehall girls way back when. Marilyn in the >50's. Janis in the 60's. Maybe when forced to look at things differently, when it involves our own young and our own motives, we are not quite as evolved or as free as we once ascribed to be. Hi makc, I just can't stop beating this dead horse :)) So are we to think of Christina Agularia rolling around half naked with 10 sweaty guys lurking on, the modern day equivalent to Marylin being carried by tuxedoed men singing "Diamonds are a girls best friend......"? I am seriously asking this, because maybe it's true, and that scares the hell out of me, as I said before, when does it become too much, it has to hit a wall somewhere??? Will my daughter's children seeStove Top Stuffing being sold by a topless dancer smearing butter all over herself and be unphased by it??? I know some people would love this...lol, but do you know what I mean? I definitely look at it in a very different light now that I have a child of my own. thanks for listening AGAIN! Erica From: "mack watson-bush" Reply-To: "mack watson-bush" To: "JMDL" Subject: Re: wh*res, atheists and bare trees...njd Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:14:50 -0600 Lieve wrote: > do kids perceive as "normal" when they're fed this stuff all day? Of course there is that question again. Just what is "normal" and who is defining it? Would suppose that most folks here think they are normal (according to the standard definition) but in the general populace I doubt they would be found as such. A hundred years ago many of us would have been killed for what we consider normal, for us. Have pondered over Erica's comments and find them with much validity as I, too, have struggled with what I find acceptable or objectionable, in regards to my neices and nephews. My nephew came home from school one day, while living for a time with me, and announced "my friends think you are too strict." I was put aback by that comment and realized that, though liberal in some areas, I was extremely rigid in others (the children I deemed proper for him to play with, what movies I would let him view, etc.). I, too, have been shocked and disgusted by the crotch grabbing entertainers but worry that if we, as a society, start putting parameters and controls over what others may say and do then we are just as guilty as the Puritans of stifling freedom. Just what is our ultimate goal? Maybe it is just me, sensitive to those issues, since not so very long ago, and perhaps again in the future, homosexuals were not allowed out of their cages without special circumstance. But who draws the lines, who makes the rules? And where do they stop? Do they stop? Yes, in the sixties a singer with a cute > face may have sold more than someone less attractive and that was exploited > too, and from there on we had more and more suggestive moves and pouting > lips and the works, Didn't our parents say much the same things that are being said today, about the music and societal changes of the 60's? Maybe we all should just take it all off and take away some of the excitement and the intrigue. my own desire to live and let live and be tolerant, I see it as > my duty to react against this cheap slutty trend. I don't see the trend. Dancehall girls way back when. Marilyn in the 50's. Janis in the 60's. Maybe when forced to look at things differently, when it involves our own young and our own motives, we are not quite as evolved or as free as we once ascribed to be. the only "correct" love relationship is one on one. If someone feels (or > expresses) love for more than one person, and it is considered more than > friendship (which I think is an artificial distinction anyway) then they are > judged as having "cheated" and the other party is made to feel betrayed and > hurt and jealous. A profound thought that deserves more attention, but, one that could be classified as rather abnormal in this culture and could be seen by others as more or less the same downing down of our morals and our society. How can we decry sexual displays on one hand and on the other put forth the notion that one on one relationships are somehow not correct? Who makes the rules? I surely don't have the answers any more than the next person, just my thoughts. mack _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:12:08 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: Travelogue album edition issue I am amazed with the booklet, the artwork, the stunning completeness. What is the deal with the virtual gallery? Mine doesn't have it... Bill - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 2:23 PM Subject: Re: Travelogue album edition issue >>I've seen three separate editions online. One plain 2 cd, one with special booklet, and one with enhanced cd.<< Jerry Crawling out of lurkdom for now---I think they're all one and the same, Jerry. Just got my advance copy today, and the package is spectacular! The domestic, US version has a complete, cardboard outer-case, with a 'hardbound' book (er, travelogue) inside, which holds the disc's and features a 28 page, glossy booklet of quotes, credits and mostly paintings (including a rather scornful looking one of George Dubya, btw). Then, there's a additional booklet entirely of lyrics. Disc 1 also has 'enhanced' cd-rom features, including a virtual gallery of Joni's own paintings that you're gonna love... XXXOOO, Billy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:12:57 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: An interesting SOCAN footnote Well, probably only interesting to me. I noticed that among those receiving awards in this presentation was: Domestic made for television film music award: Jonathan Goldsmith And in a bit of Joni-related trivia, this guy (I assume it's the same guy) was part of the group (Buzz Circo) that recorded the bizarre "River" on the "Back To The Garden" Canadian compilation. Like I said, only interesting to me...such is the way of a Joni covers freak! :~) Bob NP: Jonatha, "Still Point" 6/4/00 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:16:24 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: Travelogue album edition issue whoops, spoke too soon. the first disc was actually disc 2. wow! - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Travelogue album edition issue >>Billy: how big are the images of the paintings displayed on the CD in terms of resolution? Are they full-screen? moni<< Hi Moni. Well, the CD 'gallery' is presented in a 'scrolling' format (rather than individual slides), and not really full-screen--partly because the prints are framed, much like the cover portrait. Still, it's very crisp and classy looking, and you have control options of scrolling left OR right - --and even holding a still frame--either with or without audio. And I should probably have made it clear earlier that this wonderful package is indeed included in all standard, US domestic versions of "Travelogue" (thankfully...), and is not a special edition in any way, shape or form. YESSSS ;-) XXXOOO, Billy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:30:47 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: T'log It exceeds my wildest dreams -GORGEOUS. The music blows me away. When I opened the booklet it smelled of paint. The voices book does also. I wonder how they do that. Talk about a complete package. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:31:01 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: While Muslims stick up Washington The selection of songs on Travelogue seems to me to be a subtle look at the current political climate, and what that in turn, has done to the post-September-11th individual. Travelogue is not only a revisitation of some very haunted emotional states for the individual, but also a retrospective of phsysical journeys and pilgrimages - Hejira and Woodstock, to cite two examples. The constant search for paradise is a recurrant theme in Joni's work and she seems to be re-addressing it here. The political overtones are pretty obvious, given the paintings of Osama and Geoge W. Bush. Lines like "While Muslims stick up Washington" take on a whole new meaning, 25 years after they were penned. The song Borderline reveals an awareness of physical borders as well as internal ones - the changing of "pretense" in the song to "defense" is interesting. Getting ourselves back to the garden, it would seem, is paramount in a world so filled with turmoil. A very appropriate selection of songs, given the current political climate. Just some very sketchy, initial thoughts on the political theme. - -Andrew Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:33:12 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: T'log WOW! Awesome and beautiful, not to sound like a broken record but I am floored, exceeds all of my expectations, and have chills running up and down my spine. I live in Boston and wrote Matthew Gilbert a little note, did he really listen to this? I don't think so.....because Sire of Sorrow has, imho, never sounded better. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:44:03 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re: NJC - Woody, Altman, Sayles >Joseph in Manilla wrote>Thanks for the good words and for confirming >what I always knew of WoodyAllen. Funny that you mentioned Robert >Altman, because I read somewhere that actors don't usually say no >when WA or RA ask them to star in their films, no matter how small >their roles are. And if actors don't want to be in their films they >go on to the next one who they think will do just as >fine. Franklin> Funny, I read that somewhere, sometime ago too. I just LOVE some of Altman's movies (right up there with the "correct" Woody classics you listed)."McCabe and Mrs. Miller" was groundbreaking. It was the original modern "revisionist" Western. Total classic...not to mention the Leonard Cohen soundtrack - perfect blend of sight and sound. "Mash" total classic - even if the ditzy, "garbage can" rip off TV series demeaned, misrepresented and inadvertently buried the film (isn't it funny how the "sheep" of mediocrity just couldn't get enough of that "sitcom"?). The movie was a political statement about war of profound implications, now as much as then. Didn't get "Nashville" quite the way so many did; it seemed to "cluttered" for me. Altman did have a real lull during the eighties; but WHAT a comeback!! "The Player" is the ALL TIME, HANDS DOWN commentary on Hollywood - and is a MUST SEE for any film buff. The incredible, allegorical story-line (the producer "kills" the writer,) script, casting, direction, cinematography - all BRILLIANT. Shoulda' swept the Oscars. I loved the way critics and crowds "swooned" over that initial 12 minute "no cuts" opening, calling it "one of the finest shots in filmmatic history" when Altman was really totally snubbing his nose in sheer disdain at pretentious, self-aggrandizing cinematographers and directors!! hahahaha His latest masterpiece (at 69 years old no less!!! - are you reading these Joni? wink!) "Gosford Park" (wonderful film) is the epitome of extraordinary ensemble casting - and it does what a film should - convincingly open a window to a world which one wouldn't have had the opportunity too otherwise witness. BTY - were you aware that Altman got his "break" by doing directing several of the original "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" TV series during the early/mid fiftys? >Joseph>I always thought that Judy Davis is an exceptional actress >even if she has generally bad things to say about her directors >(remember her famous >comments lambasting Sir David Lean when they were shooting A PASSAGE TO >INDIA?). Judy once said that when Woody likes a performance of an actor, >he never says anything, and that's when you know he is happiest with your >performance (personally, I find this weird as I feel that I need all forms >of reactions to gauge myself, if I am in the same shoes as the the actors >concerned, of course). And she appeared in ALICE, HUSBANDS AND WIVES, >DECONSTRUCTING HARRY and one other. Franklin> Judy Davis! What a gal! I'm not familiar with her "lambasting Sir David Lean" but it sounds intriguing. Any web transcripts you could direct (no pun intended) me to on that? I can believe and imagine her comments regarding Woody's "approval" of the right take (although, I too find it weird!). I also read that he isn't very choosy about takes. Apparently he is a complete minimalist regarding"", just flying through scenes and set-ups as long as the actors get the DIALOGUE correct...haha His instincts have obviously more often than not, served him well. I read that L.A. Cowboy (the philosophic "rock" poet -who has been referred to, interestingly enough, as "the Woody Allen/John Sayles of music" - as he writes, arranges, performs, along with extraordinary "side men" - produces everything; apparently became the audio-auteur type for the same reason as Sayles: Lack of funds? Then do everything yourself!), does minimal takes and races through his sessions - amazing, when you hear the final results! > >Robert>Same with Robert Altman, whose ensemble cast is one of the >reasons to see his film, aside of course from his painterly approach >of merging seemingly >divergent lives of ordinary people. Franklin> Yes, Altman and Sayles are both "painters". In fact, for the "Matewan", Sayles and his DP - multiple Oscar winner, Haskel Wexler, went through several Art Museums and books detailing paintings by the various masters and story-boarded "Matewan" FRAME BY FRAME as a series of portraits and paintings - it shows! BTY - EVERYONE on that film worked for union scale. It cost three million to make, yet easily compares cinematically to another classic done around that time - "Dances With Wolves" easily - which cost, I believe 23 million. >Franklin speaking about Woody >his movies are extraordinary, similar >to what John Sayles has done in many ways. I love both their use of >recurring actors - the ones they rely on. > >Robert>I like John Sayles, too. Most especially when he directs what he wrote. >Loved EIGHT MEN OUT, PASSION FISH and LIMBO and even LONE STAR. Like >Michael Apted, he seems to coax good performances from female actors (most >notably Alfre Woodard in PASSION FISH -- too bad, it was Mary McDonnel who >was nominated). Franklin> Agreed. Lone Star, wow, what a complicated, provocative portrayal of a Texas town, family, era... >Franklin stated>I personally have never been able to "get" Alan Alda > >Robert>I never did like Alan Alda, though I can watch a film with him on it >unlike, say Eddie Murphy, Melanie Griffith, Garry Shandling films. Franklin> AGREED...lol > >Franklin stated> Not that familiar with his clarinet playing. >Apparently, obiously, at the VERY least serious, and respected >hobbyiest there. > >Robert>It was not really spectacular, his clarinet-playing, I mean, but he >sounded more studied than spontaneous. Same with the studied and >calculatedness of a Wynton Marsalis, but that's another story. And I like >both of them as musicians. Revealing myself musically again. Franklin>Why make a small fortune at your TRUE gifts, if not to further explore other avenues of pleasure, expression, satisfaction? >Franklin stated>It IS revealing of your personality: you have both > >excellent taste AND high morals..LOL > >Robert>Thanks though I am not sure Freud or Jung will agree with >that assesment. Franklin> Not to worry... they're both dead...;) >Franklin stated> Thanks for the post - really > > enjoyed your thoughts. > >Robert>Same with yours. Its weird how some of the things you said as asides >coincided with some of my own. > >Franklin stated>BTY - I don't know why, but I do find it >> rather odd that Woody and Joni have never worked together in film. They >> MUST know each other personally on some "artistic/personal" >> level. Wonder if he ever approached her to act in one of his fims? For >> some reason, it wouldn't surprise me - nor her replying "not >> interested". Who knows? Ah, the inherent worthlessness of >> conjecture!! hahaha > >Robert>I can imagine the fidgety, panicky WA approaching a reticent >and visibly unamused JM and asking her if she can star in his film. >Now that you >mentioned it, I think Joni will do well as Alice in ALICE, or as WA's >better half in MANHATTAN MURDER MYSTERY, or Anjelica Huston's character in >CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS, or maybe just as one of Hannah's sisters -- say, >Mia Farrow's character. Franklin> Great imagination! I can see it all now too...lol Franklin NP Robbin Ford "Talk to Your Daughter" guitar "gods", what can ya' say - nothing! Just enjoy!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:44:03 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni TV documentary Michael O'Malley wrote: <http://www.bravo.ca/aw_music/ >> Anyone in Canada willing to tape this for me on a good grade tape with a decent machine for a possible future tape tree? Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:00:05 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: NJC More praise (or is it prays?) for the Shea's Franklin Shea wrote: > > BTY - You're the first, and I do mean FIRST person in the world whose > ever said I sounded like Princess Margaret? How intriguing? Who is > she anyway? Is she from NY..;) I've heard there are a lot of > Princesses there - but not necessarily Irish! LOL In any event, I'd > like to meet her - she sounds so, so... intelligent@! hahahaha Your teasing comment reminded me of the attitude expressed, without ANY humor, by Princess Margaret, the late sister of Great Britain's Queen Elizabeth. (Or, since she didn't make her comments directly to me, reported to be expressed is more accurate.) It will be difficult meeting her since she died not long ago. She may have been intelligent, although her comments about the Irish come across as unintelligent, the way derogatory remarks always do. Around the time of her death, there was a brief thread about her on this list and my comment to you was with that in mind. Not fair to you, really, since you weren't here at the time, so I apologize for that confusing, "in-house" reference. Without that I would not have known much about her either. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:09:19 -0500 From: "Erica L. Trudelle" Subject: A Fest in the west???njc We are moving to CA (waaaay up nort) next spring and won't be able to travel back east for the 2003 Fest, I was wondering if the left coasters ever gather for a fest of their own? If so where and when does it usually take place? *Erica* _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:02:11 -0800 From: "flopit" Subject: NZ Music Hi Hell wrote: > > something about NZ music being crap - that will get me going! Sybil replied What?! There is music in NZ?? I had no idea! yeah - theyve got 1 (one) song. its called the haka (sic) oh wait... thats right.... they stole it from samoa :-) (tho i probably shouldnt be talking about rugby after saturdays show....) ron np - the real thing - rory block/keb mo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:13:12 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: "TRAVELOGUE" artwork Oh I've been waiting to see if she included this painting!! ;-) Jimmy wrote: >I'm not sure what the blonde girl exposing her breast over Bin > Laden means, but it's a great painting. I've held off mentioning this one (because I didn't know if it would be publically shown) but she talked about this painting when I saw her last year right after 9/11. She was laughing about it. What it means? Um, I think kinda like something along the lines of that if the radical Islamacists had a more, uh, open society, ahem, and were not so repressed, maybe they wouldn't be so, uh, you know. The way she described it was something like "this girl lifting her blouse and showing him her tits." LOL Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:05:35 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: T'log I just spent my lunch hour, sitting in my car, and listening to some of Tblog b damn, why are lunch hours only an hour! Ibve been on a steady diet of the 14 downloads from the Nonesuch website ever since Jonibs birthday (thanks again, Moni!). At first I felt a little guilty listening to these songs, I should have been patient and waited for the official release, but after listening to Tblog this afternoon, I no longer feel bad. Listening to these previews gave me chance to warm up to some of these arrangements, and since they were only in mono, listening to the official CD is almost like listening to them for the first time anyway. Ibve got nothing but superlatives for this release. The packaging is spectacular, and I havenbt even checked out the CD-Rom Gallery yet. The artwork is beautiful b I actually poured through the entire catalog before playing any of the music. It is worthy of a stand alone viewing b besides, once you start playing the music, you will want to focus all of your attention on that. Oh yeahb& and regarding that music! It is at once, rapturously beautiful, emotionally staggering, and 100% Joni. I sat in my car with tears literally pouring down my face - sometimes out of the sheer beauty of the work, other times overwhelmed by the pure emotions of the songs. The sound quality is everything everyone has raved about b this is truly a sonic wonder. I encourage those who were not blown away by this recording to give it some additional time. I had some doubts when I first started listening to the downloads, but after listening to them pretty much non-stop, and now hearing the actual recordings, I am totally sold on this project. As Kakki so aptly put it, this is a gift, and one I will be cherishing for a long, long time! Jack PS. - Ibm almost sorry Ibm going to see Brian Ferry tonight, because I canbt wait to rush home and listen to this on my home system ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:11:12 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: T'log ... NJC I sit here impatient ... and my Mnds-Eye Cam follows my path down Washington Blvd, to State Street, (which by the way IS that great street) - turn to the left Susan, to Randolph Street, to the Borders, walking throught the doors - first floor - looking for the cashiers station - where? ... over there ... under the desk - my name upon it ... soon to be united ... My Travelogue waits for me - and I hurry to run - run - run, and crash into it's arms - allowing it to seduce me! Take me! Take me! Take me away! .... And afterwards one long drag off of an American Spirit ... and we begin all over again and again and again ................ Do you think we take this all a little too serious? ................ Good I don't either! LOL! Peace, Susan P.S> One hour away from the sprint to Borders! Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:14:45 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re: NJC More praise (or is it prays?) for the Shea's >Franklin Shea wrote: >> >> BTY - You're the first, and I do mean FIRST person in the world whose >> ever said I sounded like Princess Margaret? How intriguing? Who is >> she anyway? Is she from NY..;) I've heard there are a lot of >> Princesses there - but not necessarily Irish! LOL In any event, I'd >> like to meet her - she sounds so, so... intelligent@! hahahaha > >Debra stated>Your teasing comment reminded me of the attitude >expressed, without ANY humor, by Princess Margaret, the late sister >of Great Britain's Queen Elizabeth. (Or, since she didn't make her >comments directly to me, >reported to be expressed is more accurate.) It will be difficult meeting >her since she died not long ago. > >She may have been intelligent, although her comments about the Irish >come across as unintelligent, the way derogatory remarks always do. >Around the time of her death, there was a brief thread about her on this >list and my comment to you was with that in mind. Not fair to you, >really, since you weren't here at the time, so I apologize for that >confusing, "in-house" reference. Without that I would not have known >much about her either. Franklin> Now YOU'RE teasing me!! What was it she said? Or is it too ugly, stupid or otherwise unworthy to be repeated... if that's the case, understood. But now you've REALLY got my curiosity UP! (p.s. - glad you recognized the total satire of my BTY up thar'. ;) Top o' the day to ya' darlin', Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:13:31 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: "TRAVELOGUE" artwork Kakki writes: > What it means? Um, I > think kinda like something along the lines of that if the radical > Islamacists had a more, uh, open society, ahem, and were not so repressed, > maybe they wouldn't be so, uh, you know. The way she described it was > something like "this girl lifting her blouse and showing him her tits." That makes sense Kakki. I noticed under the girls right breast, there's a tattoo (I guess) that reads "made". Under her left breast, it reads: re dun dant I didn't know if the "made" and "redundant" were referring to the woman's false looking breast. Did she mention anything about those tattoos Kakki? Jimmy (waiting to get home to actually LISTEN to T-log) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:34:50 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: A Fest in the west???njc Hi Erica, An early welcome to the left coast Joni consortium! There are several pods of jmdlers in northern, central and southern CA, and going all up the coast to B.C.! A lot of us have gotten together at various events over the years - mostly minifests. Please let us know when you will be here and we will put you on our "mailing list" ;-) Kakki > We are moving to CA (waaaay up nort) next spring and won't be able to travel > back east for the 2003 Fest, I was wondering if the left coasters ever > gather for a fest of their own? If so where and when does it usually take > place? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:36:47 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: "TRAVELOGUE" artwork Hmm, Jimmy, she did mention tattoos and the "redundant" theme is a whole nother story which I'll try to answer later. Have to run back to work for now! Kakki That makes sense Kakki. I noticed under the girls right breast, there's a tattoo (I guess) that reads "made". Under her left breast, it reads: re dun dant I didn't know if the "made" and "redundant" were referring to the woman's false looking breast. Did she mention anything about those tattoos Kakki? Jimmy (waiting to get home to actually LISTEN to T-log) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:23:53 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: NJC More praise (or is it prays?) for the Shea's Franklin Shea wrote: > > Franklin> Now YOU'RE teasing me!! What was it she said? Or is it too > ugly, stupid or otherwise unworthy to be repeated... if that's the > case, understood. But now you've REALLY got my curiosity UP! It was too ugly, stupid and unworthy to remember, so you'll need to check the archives if you're that curious. Or a google search might turn up something. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:27:21 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: just babbling gotta cut out these 2 drink lunches if joni thinks madonna is baring too much for her career who was showing her naked ass in the gatefold of "for the roses?" even carly "pressed ham" simon never went that far! sorry-national lampoon once called carly's "next album" "pressed ham" and i always thought it was hilarious. as much as i used to like carly (and still do to a point) how can she and joni be mentioned in the same breath? i'll never forget sheepishly liking carly in the 70's and a sweet girl in the dorms was shocked that i could even listen to her after she stole james from joni!?!? ha ha that aside lets just compare "your so vain" to "electricity" or "no secrets" to say "cold blue steel and sweet fire" or "anticipation" to "this flight tonight" it's like comparing nursery rhymes to byron much as i like those carly songs gimmie a break also as much as i liked "no secrets" and especially "hotcakes" i couldnt find one good song on "playing possom", so i quit there ("coming around again" notwithstanding) and on an entirely different note i'm a big woody fan also. (in fact, for me, his career parallels ms. jonis) and while my faves are "husbands and wives" "love and death" "crimes and misdemeanors" and "annie hall" i'm always AMAZED on how much i like all of his later movies (especially the second viewing) i would place "decontructing harry" and "sweet and lowdown" right up there ditto for "jade scorpion" or "hollywood ending" all very dense, very funny, and beautifully directed how touching is that deaf girl in "lowdown?" how OUTRAGIOUSLY FUNNY is "deconstructing?" (my friends and i could not stop laughing) ooo also another big fave--- "another woman" how great is gena rowlands? IN ANY MOVIE SHE"S EVER BEEN IN? and her brilliant husband? and mia in "rosemary's baby? rambling rambling sorry isn't it funny how "stas" is turning in to my most favorite joni album? it's just so damn perfect xxx valty ps. i could see joni and woody never crossing paths he's had nothing but contempt for "rock culture" from the beginning The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:57:22 EST From: SAVtheWAVE@aol.com Subject: Just in with Travelogue Just in the house with Travelogue. Had the local music store hold one for me and I tore into it as soon as I got into the Truck. I just sat amazed at the art work included. Only heard the first 5 cuts on CD 1 and am already in a trance and wanting to hear the rest of it tonight. And it is said that Joni Mitchell fans won't get into to this CD? This smells like grammy to me and since I have absorbed BSN and come to love that for what it was, at that point in her career, I know what this is going to do to me only after a play or two. She is showing the music world that she isn't just a recording artist, but a full fledged Renaissance Woman, paintings and all ! She has done it again. And you all know what it's like to have a new Joni Mitchell in your hands and can't wait to hear it? Well, it happened again, and once again, I feel like there is someone out there ( thanks Joni ) who knows how to take you someplace way inside yourself. Joe ( in Rhode Island ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:02:34 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Just in with Travelogue Good to hear from you, Joe! Thanks for checking in, long time no hear... You got a CD player for T'log in that Corvette? :~) Bob NP: Jonatha, "Lullaby" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:28:01 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: wh*res, atheists and bare trees...njc Erica wrote: Christina Agularia rolling around half naked with 10 sweaty guys lurking on, > the modern day equivalent to Marylin being carried by tuxedoed men singing > "Diamonds are a girls best friend. Well, in actuality, of couse they are not equivalent. But in the way that people viewed them and their actions might just be. Remember Marilyn wore tight dresses, sometimes went braless, and don't forget the scandal over those naked pics of hers. before, when does it become too much, it has to hit a wall somewhere??? Good question and I don't have the answer but the thought of someone stifling her ability to be so tawdry scares me. What if next they deem Joni to be unacceptable to proper society. She with the liberal leanings, she with the dirty language, she with the anti-American stance of questioning this government. No, I don't think she is anti-american but many of those on the right will state outright that anyone that questions our government and its actions are anti-american. I do enjoy visiting political chatrooms and myself and other liberals are bombarded with those kind of comments each night. "you muzzie, you traitor, you don't love america, love it or leave it." It goes on and on. It is hard to fathom the possibility of a censureship of Joni Mitchell but who knows? If it begins, who knows where it will stop? Who will be checking the checkers? Anyone? Freedom in our society gives Ms. Aguilera the right to do what she wishes. And it gives us our right to not watch her or to turn her off. I have never seen her (perform if you will) or heard her. Simply not interested. Of course, the question of what to do with the children is at the forefront, isn't it? I, again, can see your point but what is the answer? I don't know. . Will > my daughter's children seeStove Top Stuffing being sold by a topless dancer > smearing butter all over herself and be unphased by it??? You do know how to make me smile Erica. I envisioned Julia Child topless, with that high voice, doing what you mention. lol. Now, I imagine that would help manty lose some extra pounds. lol mack ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #502 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)