From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #501 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 19 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 501 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- [none] ["William Chavez" ] Today in History: November 19 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: NJC National Poetry Month [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Objectively(?) speaking [FredNow@aol.com] Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young and sometimes Joni [lucarelli.f@tin.it] Re: Today's Mondegreen ["colin" ] RE: Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young and sometimes Joni ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(La] NJC Re: Me [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Today's Mondegreen (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: First, they came for the (fill in the blank) ... njc [Deb Messling ] Re: Joni Mitchell: Hedwig and the Angry Inch (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Joni NOT Quitting [James Leahy ] Re: First, they came for the (fill in the blank) ... njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Joni NOT Quitting [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Latest shocking news from New Orleans!! NJC ["Maggie McNally" ] NJC Re: Travelogue envy [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] JM in Canada article + photo ["Moni Kellermann" ] Re: Next station, Hope. NJC ["Brenda" ] Re: "TRAVELOGUE" artwork [FMYFL@aol.com] RE: wh*res, atheists and bare trees... [ReckersL@ebrd.com] RE: "TRAVELOGUE" artwork ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: Woody NJC [] Travelogue review - OUCH ["Lori Fye" ] the Canadian mentality [Little Bird ] Re: Travelogue review - OUCH [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] JMDL Mail Archive ["Lori Fye" ] boston globe review. njc ["mack watson-bush" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 03:03:12 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: [none] I'm glad to see that there is another Danny Kirwan admirer out there. I especially love his stuff with the Mac(Woman of 1,000 years, Dust, Bare Trees, Station Man, etc...). All of the Mac guitarist have been so great because they have concentrated on making their guitar work show off the song and not themselves. I think this is the main reason why they never come up when people discuss great guitarist. They never do these overly done unnecessary solos. Not even on the instrumentals can you say that they are trying to overpower a song with their guitar chops. You can say this for Peter Green all the way down to Lindsey Buckingham. This is so often a mistake committed by well known guitarist (ex.- Eddie Van Halen), Even Jimmy hendrix often time overdid it, despite the fact that he played in a time when solo extravaganzas were the norm. Don't get me wrong, I like Jimmy. I think that even Clapton sometimes over plays. Bonnie definitely underplays. Even in her early albums I'm always left wanting just a little bit more slide before the song is over. I think under doing the solos is much better than overdoing it. Will writes: >>>> Make the pie higher! Make the pie higher! Right ... make the pie higher on the shelf so no one else can reach it. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:17:09 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Objectively(?) speaking Franklin Shea writes: >Franklin> Really appreciated these contributions Fred. I couldn't >have said it better myself (the ultimate compliment?? LOL), but then >again, I don't have to: you already have... Well chosen examples to >make points also! Bravo Thanks. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:20:46 +0000 From: lucarelli.f@tin.it Subject: Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young and sometimes Joni Dear all, this message just to give you some info about the three volume biography "Crosby, Stills, Nash & sometimes Young", which has been presented in London?s renowned music bookshop Helter Skelter on September 27th, 2002. The books contain plenty of less-known Joni and Joni-related material, so I guess you might be interested in them. There's also a couple of reviews which I'm adding at the bottom of this message. Being written by Dave Zimmer (author of the authorized CSN biography) and by Matthew Greenwald (of Goldmine and of many other great music magazines), I'm quite proud of what they have to say. Here's some details... Volume 1 and 2 focus on the biography from the very beginning until 2002. Volume 3 focuses on CSN released and unreleased music (records, CDs, VHS, etc), their complete concert career (collectively & separately), their radio and TV appearances, etc. Some numbers: 3 volumes focused on CSN&Y, The Byrds (with Crosby), The Hollies (with Nash) and Buffalo Springfield, up to date as at September 2002. More than 1,000 pages in large format; more than 400 b&w photos (mostly never seen before); detailed information about more than 100 albums and CDs; notes about approximately 600 singles and promos (with 144 picture sleeve covers reproduced in full color); details of 433 CSN songs covered by other artists; 196 CSN guest appearances on other artists? albums; a 24-page chapter dedicated to unreleased songs, sessions and abandoned albums with hundreds of titles and dates; 32 full-color pages with reproductions of concert-posters, tickets, programmes, passes; an extensive bibliography including 186 books and 68 songbooks; filmography; multimedia chapter; details, set-lists and other notes of 238 radio appearances, 634 TV appearances and approximately 8,000 concert dates (including pre-Byrds, pre-Buffalo and pre-Hollies gigs). Currently the books are available ONLINE ONLY, and you can order them at www.gopherpublishers.com . For further information, reviews and photos, visit www.booksoncsn.com Thanks, Francesco Lucarelli ****************************** I received my copies of the Crosby, Stills, Nash and Sometimes Young books last Saturday (ordered online from Gopher). While I'm still in the process of going through them, I just wanted to comment that I'm mightily impressed. Francesco, Stefano, Lucien and Herman obviously poured their hearts and souls onto these pages. The decade-plus effort put into this project shows. Remarkably, most of the quotes in the text have not been published in book-form before. And I was happy to see insightful comments from many "behind-the-scenes" players such as Kenny Weiss (Stills's former manager and music publisher) as well as a lot of fresh material from CSN and sometimes Y, plus quotes from hard-to-find articles. Also, the tone of the book is definitely not fanzine-like. It has a fluid, energetic feel that makes it a great "curl up on the couch" while foul weather rages outside kind of a read. As for the photographs ... I've never seen many of them before. My favorites are: young Stills shots circa the Couch Album and Manassas, a number of Tom Davis photos, a selection of Henry Diltz photos I've never seen, and a wonderful shot by Roger Barone of Stills before a '76 Stills-Young Band concert in Philly. My only mild quibble has to do with the layout of The Early Years book, which features three separate, parallel narratives for Crosby, Stills and Nash. I found myself having to flip pages back and forth in order to keep up with the flow of the stories. That said, I understand what a difficult task it is to track the guys' individual journeys as well as the group combinations. In my book on CSN, I ended up breaking up the text into copy blocks, with sub-heads, in order to keep the stories rolling forward. So I don't really know which technique is most effective. A final comment before heading off ... ORDER THESE BOOKS! I've got nothing to gain by saying that. These books have too much fresh content, too many unseen photos and too many unearthed facts to do without. Dave Zimmer (author of Crosby, Stills & Nash authorized biography) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CSN&Y book series review by Matthew Greenwald (Goldmine) Crosby, Stills & Nash (and sometimes Young) By Herman Verbeke / Francesco Lucarelli / Stefano Frollano / Lucien van Diggelen (Gopher Publishers, Netherlands) A true labor of love, this exhaustive three-volume set covers the collective and individual careers of CSN&Y in such detail that by the time you finish reading them, you?ll be thunderstruck. Culled from hundreds of interviews and articles over the last 35 years, the authorship team weaves everything together in a all but seamless fashion, and this in itself is remarkable. But aside from the text, the photo selection is equally inspiring. Hundreds of rare shots (many never before seen), video stills and album sleeves are liberally sprinkled throughout the books, making them a virtual page-documentary. Volume one is a transitory, 150-page book on the members? pre-CSN (&Y) careers in Buffalo Springfield, The Byrds and The Hollies, following their divergent paths up to the point of conception at either Cass Elliot or Joni Mitchell?s house (no one can yet agree on where the first performance took place). Volume two provides the core of the story, with CSN?s debut, Young?s addition, group, solo/duo and re-formation history from 1968 all the way through the recent turn-of-the-century CSN&Y events. The fast-paced professional and personal events in these four individuals is quite an odyssey, and the writers take good care in balancing art and life, and for the most part, eschewing gossip. Volume 3 (subtitled 40 Years Of Music and a Trunk Of Memories) is a completist?s delight: a 350+ page reference guide, containing virtually every known performance, release and recording session. This volume also contains a cornucopia of rare album/CD and 45 picture sleeves (many of them in full color), making it as close to a coffee table book as you?re likely to get on the quartet. Monumental in its scope and nearly cinematic in form, this book is a feast for fans of a band whose legend righteously stands the test of time. Matthew Greenwald (Goldmine) ************************************************************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:48:56 -0000 From: "colin" Subject: Re: Today's Mondegreen > Carly Simon sings (in After the Storm) > Wind's pulling the moon down, > Underneath the eiderdown > You're taking me to town > and tossing me around..." > > kinda sexy, huh? > > Ken > I also love: last night i slept in sheets the colour of fire tonight i lie alone again cursing my own desire from Boys In The Trees ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:27:47 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: RE: Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young and sometimes Joni 3 volumes on CSNY? Oh, my aching bank account. Isn't there anyone who can hook a brother up with a book deal? Lama > lucarelli.f@tin.it > Subject: Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young and sometimes Joni > Volume 1 and 2 focus on the biography from the very beginning until 2002. > Volume 3 focuses on CSN released and unreleased music (records, CDs, VHS, > etc), their complete concert career (collectively & separately), > their radio > and TV appearances, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:34:06 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Me Andrew said: > I'm the only one in my peer > group who seems to fully "get" Joni's work, which is a > bit sad and sometimes lonely. Yep, that's pretty much it in a nutshell for most of us, Andrew. This weekend when I was "Big Chillin'" it at the beach with my high school chums and was explaining it in much the same fashion. Anyway, NOW you're in a peer group where we ALL get it! :~) Welcome, thanks for the intro, and I look forward to having you around. Bob NP: Billy Bragg & Wilco, "She Came Along To Me" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:57:46 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Today's Mondegreen (NJC) Funny you should mention this, Kate: > shawn colvin sings (in poloroids): > > please no more therapy > mother take care of me > piece me together like a needle & thread > wrap me in eiderdown > a place for your wedding gown > (something i forget) & lay me down on your bed because I said to Mary, during our conversation about eiderdown vs. dollar down, "Shawn Colvin mentions eiderdown in one of her songs." > (what great lyrics!) I agree! Shawn is an amazing lyricist, as is John Leventhal. Lori, STILL hooked on "Whole New You" (the album, not necessarily the song) ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:39:23 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: First, they came for the (fill in the blank) ... njc If it makes anyone feel better, I believe handgun purchases will NOT go in that database. Ashcroft says its a matter of privacy. At 08:17 PM 11/18/02 -0500, you wrote: >WASHINGTON - If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage, here >is what will happen to you: >Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you >buy >and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you >send >or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, >every trip you book and every event you attend - all these transactions and >communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a >virtual, centralized grand database." Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:50:57 -0600 From: Subject: tv documentary > From: Jerry Notaro > not a big fan of Madonna's, but just a bit disappointed at Joni's > nastiness........ Badmouthing other people is nothing but a goddamn bad habit -- call it "expressing your opinion" or not -- who was it who said, and I paraphrase, that honesty is sometimes just a good excuse for brutality -- but Joni is a Scorpio so hey, if she's going to diss others, she's going to do it cuttingly and well. And she has. What she says is true; that makes it even more meanspirited, as someone of her talent, wisdom and stature could afford to be more generous and gentle in her judgments. Remember Bambi and Flower, the skunk? "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." This is very good advice a lot of the time. But we all get meanspirited once in a while. Most of us don't have our nasty words printed and repeated, that's all. Though we sure as hell get misquoted, don't we? > From: "michael o'malley" > See this two-hour documentary at > http://www.bravo.ca/aw_music/ > (I'm just sick because we don't get this station in Quebec City! That makes thirty of us. Kate du Nord ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:04:04 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell: Hedwig and the Angry Inch (NJC) I'm not sure how someone could confuse Joni Mitchell with John Cameron Mitchell, but ... whatever. I loved that movie, though! Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:4:40 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Joni Mitchell Not Quitting From the Toronto Star http://thestar.com Nov. 19, 2002. 01:00 AM Joni Mitchell `not sour,' will keep making music Singer `not bitter' after threatening to quit recording Legend receives Canadian honour at AGO ceremony MURRAY WHYTE ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER Joni Mitchell pauses for a moment, considers the question, and then delivers some welcome news: No, she's not quitting the music business. At least, not yet. "I'm not raffled, I'm not sour and I'm not bitter," she said last night with a laugh, taking a brief pause from the crush of admirers vying for her attention at the Art Gallery of Ontario. "All the bosses in that industry have been so nice since I knocked it, everything's been smoothed over. So let's get on with it." Mitchell, in town to receive the Wm. Harold Moon Award from the Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada for her contributions to bringing international attention to Canadian music, will likely have given welcome relief to the legions of fans she's built up over three-plus decades as a singer-songwriter. Recently, Mitchell, disgusted at the music industry's insatiable hunger for Britneys and Shakiras, said Travelogue, her new double CD that will be released today, would be her last. "What would I do? Get hair extensions and a choreographer?" she said in the December issue of W magazine. "It's not my world." But even if she's changed her mind, she certainly hasn't changed her position. "I don't want songs to be disposable," she said last night. "Instead of being swayed to demographic and marketing procedures, it has to mean something. Music is too calculated now. It's good for aerobics, but it isn't moving." Mitchell, wearing a black Issey Miyake dress bought on the weekend at Hold Renfrew ("It's her favourite," said Mitchell's daughter, Toronto-based Kilauren Gibb; "they just don't seem to have it in L.A.," where Mitchell lives), graciously received fellow attendees seeking photos with her, and autographs. Also receiving awards last night were Nelly Furtado, rock group Nickelback and hip-hop artist Kardinal Offishal. Smoking contentedly in the AGO's Agora restaurant, Mitchell lamented the turn the business has taken  and how far that turn has taken it away from art that matters. "We need a counter-force. We can't all be bitches and ho's," she said, referring to the hip-hop boom that has consumed commercial radio. "The artist's job is to sit on the sidelines. We're supposed to be outcasts. An artist is not a politician. We have to be non-partisan, skeptical." A sampling of Mitchell's philosophy can be found on Travelogue, an album that assembles many of Mitchell's best-known songs but in a radically reworked form, using a 70-piece orchestra, a choir, and a corps of accomplished jazz players. It can be seen as a look back, but it's also a look forward for new challenges, which Mitchell is committed to pursuing. "I meet young artists all the time, and I tell them they have to do what they feel," she said. "Synthesize what you really like. Don't cop out." To be clear, Mitchell's relenting from her absolute position is not that. She's made her statement, and is ready to move on. "I threatened to quit because I was pissed off, and with good reason," she said. "I don't think I can quit, but in order to write again, there's going to have to be a real shift in me. Where that will come from, I don't know." - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:38:48 -0500 From: James Leahy Subject: Joni NOT Quitting Today's Toronto Star story on Joni's SOCAN award reveals she is not planning to quit the music biz after all: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035774582299&call_pageid=968867495754&col=969483191630 Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:42:47 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: First, they came for the (fill in the blank) ... njc Fred wrote: > Well, I'd say drama is entirely appropriate in this case, wouldn't > you? Actually ... yes. > I've always been cynical about our government, but honestly, I never > thought I'd live to see it get this scary. I've always believed I WOULD see this in my lifetime, although I thought it would happen in my old age rather than my middle age. I guess if it's to happen, being middle-aged is better since I can still RUN across the border, at least for the time being. (Atwood's "A Handmaid's Tale" plays over and over in my mind.) > And to think that all these men are in power only because a bloodless > coup was staged in November, 2000. It's a goddamn nightmare. It is, yet we still had shitty voter turnout just two weeks ago. People are so complacent; they just don't get it. And so, of course, your subject line is perfect, Fred. "First They Came for the Jews" First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. - - Pastor Martin Niemvller Lori, very glad that Ashcroft doesn't want to include my guns in his grand scheme ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:47:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Getting the word out Today Joni's new project, "TRAVELOGUE" is available for purchase in North America. I took the packaging to work today. After our meeting, I gave half of the artwork to the woman on my left and the other half to the woman on my right. Comments overheard: "Wow! This is some nice package!" and "Good words. Did she write all these words?" (Inner monologue: "Well, noooo.") Luckily, Carrie fielded that one: "Yeah. She's a _Poet_.") I just smiled. This is recognition. Congratulations, Joan. This is a homerun smash of a beautiful package. Full stop. Well done. I'm very proud to be a 25-year fan today. A bit misty, Lama Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:47:37 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni NOT Quitting In a message dated 11/19/2002 10:38:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, jamesl@ca.inter.net writes: > Today's Toronto Star story on Joni's SOCAN award reveals > she is not > planning to quit the music biz after all: Well gee! Surprise surprise & knock me over with a f*cking spoon! ;~) Bob, enjoying T'log in my car today, many nice subtleties there when you can surround yourself with it. NP: The Breeders, "do you love me now?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:50:57 -0500 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: Latest shocking news from New Orleans!! NJC Actually, she referred to us as "old peoples" - Alex and I have come to use that phrase on a regular basis. Mostly as in, "well, of course we're tired, we're old peoples." We especially loved the peoples as plural part. I recall very clearly what your reaction to it was, Susan. ;-) Maggie > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Guzzi [mailto:groovchacha@yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 12:46 AM > To: Michael Paz > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Latest shocking news from New Orleans!! NJC > > > Yes Michael I did notice, but what I noticed more ... was how > she dropped the word "old" from in > front of hippie friends to "new." Unlike at fest Christina, > when you referred to us as a bunch of > old hippies! I liked you up till then Christina. ;-P > JK! > > Peace, > Susan > > NP: Joni/ In France They Kiss On Main Street > > > --- Michael Paz wrote: > > It takes ONE to know ONE dear hippie girl!!!! > > > > Hiccup, ya'll (did you catch that ya'll she's starting to > talk like us. > > > > Paz > > > > on 11/13/02 10:07 PM, Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup at > christi@dsr.kvl.dk > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Talking about Jack's release, I hope too to see MANY of > you at his release > > > party the 12th of December and that you'll try and stay > for the weekend for a > > > minifest. It'd be FANTASTIC to relive Jonifest 2002 being > reunited with my new > > > hippie friends! > > > > > > > > > My best to y'all, > > > Christina > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site > http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:13:42 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Travelogue envy > Bob: enjoying T'log in my car today, many nice > subtleties there when you can surround yourself with > it. I can hardly bare it! I gave Erik some really big hints to get me T'log for my birthday next week - I don't know if I can stand 8 more days of everyone talking about it without going and getting it myself. GOD HELP him if he doesn't get it for me! ; ) Jenny PS - Bob - I heard a new Badly Drawn Boy song on the radio this morning. It rocked. Another new release I'll have to get. Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:20:31 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Travelogue envy Soon-to-be birthday gal Jenny writes: > I gave Erik some really big > hints to get me T'log for my birthday next week Jenny...guys don't do so good with even "really big hints". You need to be INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS. > PS - Bob - I heard a new Badly Drawn Boy song on the > radio this morning. It rocked. Another new release > I'll have to get. Yes you will! "Have You Fed the Fish?" is EVEN better than the About A Boy soundtrack! And the version I bought last week came with a freebie live CD recorded in Glastonbury on the BBC. If that giveaway is not available where you are and it's something you want, lemme know - but NOT with a really big hint! :~) Bob NP: Edie Brickell, "Green" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:38:37 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: JM in Canada article + photo http://ca.news.yahoo.com/021119/6/qbwh.html http://ca.news.yahoo.com/021119/6/qbwv.html moni ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:41:56 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Next station, Hope. NJC On 18 Nov 2002 at 21:09, kakki wrote: > Hmmm, my cynical, non-professional response would be to answer along > the lines of b) and d). My semi-professional response would be to ask > why no one advised that the artist needed to get clearances to use the > voices. Don't know how the law works in Spain, but in the U.S. there > is (in simplistic terms) the thought that if you let one get away with > infringment, then eventually many/all will be infringed. How would > you feel if say, Woody Allen, used dubbed your voice in one of his > movies? If I ask myself the same question, I probably wouldn't like > someone using my recorded voice without my permission, but I don't > know that I would want to bother with a lawsuit, either. Perhaps, > however, whatever agency represented the plaintiffs, wants to bring > the suit and it may not have been originated by the actual plaintiffs. > > Kakki > > Mike asked: > > > Are these plaintiffs a) bravely standing up against piracy, b) > > greedy bastards, c) dickheads who can't take a joke or d) unwitting > > victims of voracious lawyers who are desperate to get every penny > > out of a recording session that took place 7 years ago. My non-cynical professional response is b and d. First, these actors performed a work for a government agency. In the U.S. works of the government are not subject to copyright. I find it hard to believe that the agency didn't have them sign a buyout agreement with regard to ownership of the recording. So they wouldn't have rights as individuals unless the work for hire agreement was not a buy out. Ultimately the actors' rights hinge on whether or not the works of the Madrid government agency are subject to copyright. I suspect no one advised the artist to get clearance because government works are not subject to copyright in Spain...but I could certainly be wrong. If Woody Allen dubbed the voice you hear when you call the White House comment line, the person who did the comment line recording would have no grounds for suing him -- unless they were an independent contractor who did not agree to a buyout. I also think that here in the U.S., Chao could make a reasonable case for a parody use. This is certainly an interesting question. Keep us posted on the outcome. Brenda - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:43:47 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: "TRAVELOGUE" artwork In a message dated 11/19/2002 12:40:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, jlamadoo@fuse.net writes: > PS, Yes the record store sold it to me before midnight. > Must be nice to live in a city where a record store stays open that late. Here in Hooterville, I called Best Buy this morning to see if they had the new releases on the shelf. The salesperson said "Why of course!!!". I asked her about Joni's new one, to which she replied "Johnny Mitchell"??? After correcting her, she put me on hold for 10 minutes, then told me that there was another shipment coming in this afternoon, and yes there will be *2* copies of "Travelogue" arriving. GEEEEZZZ!!!! Since I refuse to go to any mall, I forked out the extra bucks and picked up T-log at Barnes & Noble. .........and Lama, you are so right on the packaging of T-log. It's brilliant!!!! Joni's artwork is brilliant, and I guess she really was busy pouring her heart into painting after 9/11. She really captures Bush, Bin Laden, The World Trade Center, the American flag in these wonderful paintings. I'm not sure what the blonde girl exposing her breast over Bin Laden means, but it's a great painting. Oh and I love the photo of Joni's dog. A GRAMMY FOR PACKAGING FOR SURE!!! Now, on to the music. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:56:06 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: RE: wh*res, atheists and bare trees... (The reason for the asterisk is that any reply with that word in the title or the text would otherwise be thrown out by my diligent IT system!) 1. First point. Erica Trudelle wrote: " I guess next time I see a video with a half naked woman singing about being rubbed while watched by 10 sweaty men, I'll sit back, smile and think to myself, what classy woman,what a positive message, whatever it takes to make a living, you go girl, good for you, and hope my young daughter wants to grow up and be just like her..." It is a problem I have been wrestling with too, as a mother of 2 boys. What do kids perceive as "normal" when they're fed this stuff all day? And no, my kids are not young enough any more for me to be able to monitor what they see on TV, I can only hope I've given them enough sense of self respect and social awareness by now to be able to distinguish the crap, but I can't help but worry, from the overload they get day after day. Like Erica, I'm no prude, but I'm also disappointed to see some people play on the easiest sexual impulses to sell their "music". No, the idea is not so new, but the package is more and more replacing the content, and the brashness with which it's done means that it's become a race to be the most revealing, the most shocking etc. Yes, in the sixties a singer with a cute face may have sold more than someone less attractive and that was exploited too, and from there on we had more and more suggestive moves and pouting lips and the works, to a point where yes I feel a lot of these kids are prostituting themselves with their crotch grabbing and boobs display. No matter if they are male or female. I would use the "w" word for both, regardless. If you want to call me a prude or censorious for saying this well then maybe I just have to accept that, but I know I've never been known that way. In fact years ago my (catholic) father accused me of being sex-obsessed, which I know I wasn't either, but I think sex is just too precious and special, like art, to turn it into such a cheap parody. And so with all respect for the point Yael made about gender stereotypes and the point Lori made about different ways of dressing in different cultures, and in spite of my own desire to live and let live and be tolerant, I see it as my duty to react against this cheap slutty trend. In fact, I'm almost equally concerned about a different influence that my kids (along with all of us) are subjected to, and that may be even more controversial and almost the opposite of what I said above, but to me it's entirely logical. This is the brainwashing that kids get from popsongs and soaps etc about the nature of relationships. I'm probably getting into deep water here and I may regret saying this because I won't have the time to explain what I truly mean, but I think we are all being made to believe that the only "correct" love relationship is one on one. If someone feels (or expresses) love for more than one person, and it is considered more than friendship (which I think is an artificial distinction anyway) then they are judged as having "cheated" and the other party is made to feel betrayed and hurt and jealous. It gets very close to what Colin said about fear. I think jealousy is a result of fear, and it is a reaction that is "created" by the way we have organised our society, where everything is based on the couple relationship (which in turn goes back to the male owning the female and wanting her to only have his offspring i.e. from his sperm). Now I do live in the real world and I don't have all the practical solutions to questions that may follow from this theory, only that I would like our society and the people who influence us through the media (when they're not bombarding us with slut products that reduce sex to just another bodily function) to be less rigid in its judgments and conclusions of how we can love and relate to others, and I am worried about some of the comments my sons make about certain storylines, where they so easily identify who is the "cheater" and who has done wrong, based entirely on the stereotypes we have been told to follow, rather than on what the true emotions of the individuals are. Ah, I'd love to discuss this further, but I'm not sure I can do it properly in writing, especially with the clock ticking behind me, so I'll leave it at that for now. 2. Susan Guzzi wrote: "Having been raised Catholic, 12 years of their schooling, I have serious problems with organized religion. Having said that I now consider myself to be an atheist. Success! LOL! ... But seriously, Erica, I feel I live a spiritual life, granted on a different level, I consider myself to be a humanist. And each day I "try" to be a better human being." and also: " So if I am wrong and there is a God in my end to judge, what I may lack in faith hopefully will be more than made up for in effort and work and some success in living as a fair minded, loving, peaceful human being." Susan, if it's not a "sin" (vague pun intended!) to say "me too!" then I'd like to say so! I think "humanist" is a sometimes underestimated vocation! 3. Franklin wrote : " NP Fleetwood Mac "Bare Trees" maof (miniscule amount of filler) plus some of the best interweaving guitar work from two of the most tasteful guitar players to ever grace the planet - Danny Kirwan and Bob Welsh - Kick-ass, refined guitar work!! Also some great songs -" Ah Franklin! I never thought I'd meet anyone who'd feel like I do about Fleetwood Mac's Bare Trees! It's a wonderful album, with Christine Perfect's bewitching voice, before Ms Nicks's frilly-little-girl's voice brought the band to a more commercial level. It's certainly in my top ten albums list, and I've given it to so many "special" friends who've never had much to say about it afterwards that I was beginning to wonder! Thank you for liking it! Lots of love to you all, Lieve. _____________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:04:05 -0500 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: "TRAVELOGUE" artwork I was at Virgin Megastore last night and asked for Travelogue, hoping that they would bend the rules a bit and let me buy it then. I was told to come back at midnight...at least here in Boston we have a store that stays open until 12:30 a.m. to allow obsessives to be the first kids on the block to have the latest releases. Unfortunately, being "old peoples" I could not do that, so am experiencing Travelogue envy because I haven't been able to get to the store yet. The sales guy joked (?) that if I gave him $100 he'd sell it to me early. Good to read all the list comments about Travelogue...if I believed this morning's Boston Globe I wouldn't give it a listen. http://ae.boston.com/music/newondisc/reviews/joni_mitchell.html Best, Maggie > -----Original Message----- > From: FMYFL@aol.com [mailto:FMYFL@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 11:44 AM > To: jlamadoo@fuse.net; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: "TRAVELOGUE" artwork > > > In a message dated 11/19/2002 12:40:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, > jlamadoo@fuse.net writes: > > > > PS, Yes the record store sold it to me before midnight. > > > Must be nice to live in a city where a record store stays > open that late. > Here in Hooterville, I called Best Buy this morning to see if > they had the > new releases on the shelf. The salesperson said "Why of > course!!!". I asked > her about Joni's new one, to which she replied "Johnny > Mitchell"??? After > correcting her, she put me on hold for 10 minutes, then told > me that there > was another shipment coming in this afternoon, and yes there > will be *2* > copies of "Travelogue" arriving. GEEEEZZZ!!!! > > Since I refuse to go to any mall, I forked out the extra > bucks and picked up > T-log at Barnes & Noble. > > .........and Lama, you are so right on the packaging of T-log. It's > brilliant!!!! Joni's artwork is brilliant, and I guess she > really was busy > pouring her heart into painting after 9/11. She really > captures Bush, Bin > Laden, The World Trade Center, the American flag in these wonderful > paintings. I'm not sure what the blonde girl exposing her > breast over Bin > Laden means, but it's a great painting. Oh and I love the > photo of Joni's > dog. A GRAMMY FOR PACKAGING FOR SURE!!! > > Now, on to the music. > > Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:04:12 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Woody NJC Franklin: Thanks for the good words and for confirming what I always knew of Woody Allen. Funny that you mentioned Robert Altman, because I read somewhere that actors don't usually say no when WA or RA ask them to star in their films, no matter how small their roles are. And if actors don't want to be in their films they go on to the next one who they think will do just as fine. I always thought that Judy Davis is an exceptional actress even if she has generally bad things to say about her directors (remember her famous comments lambasting Sir David Lean when they were shooting A PASSAGE TO INDIA?). Judy once said that when Woody likes a performance of an actor, he never says anything, and that's when you know he is happiest with your performance (personally, I find this weird as I feel that I need all forms of reactions to gauge myself, if I am in the same shoes as the the actors concerned, of course). And she appeared in ALICE, HUSBANDS AND WIVES, DECONSTRUCTING HARRY and one other. Same with Robert Altman, whose ensemble cast is one of the reasons to see his film, aside of course from his painterly approach of merging seemingly divergent lives of ordinary people. his movies are extraordinary, > similar to what John Sayles has done in many ways. I love both their > use of recurring actors - the ones they rely on. I like John Sayles, too. Most especially when he directs what he wrote. Loved EIGHT MEN OUT, PASSION FISH and LIMBO and even LONE STAR. Like Michael Apted, he seems to coax good performances from female actors (most notably Alfre Woodard in PASSION FISH -- too bad, it was Mary McDonnel who was nominated). >I personally have never been able to "get" Alan Alda I never did like Alan Alda, though I can watch a film with him on it unlike, say Eddie Murphy, Melanie Griffith, Garry Shandling films. > Not that familiar with his clarinet playing. Apparently, obiously, at > the VERY least serious, and respected hobbyiest there. It was not really spectacular, his clarinet-playing, I mean, but he sounded more studied than spontaneous. Same with the studied and calculatedness of a Wynton Marsalis, but that's another story. And I like both of them as musicians. Revealing myself musically again. >It IS revealing of your personality: you have both > excellent taste AND high morals..LOL Thanks though I am not sure Freud or Jung will agree with that assesment. > Thanks for the post - really > enjoyed your thoughts. Same with yours. Its weird how some of the things you said as asides coincided with some of my own. BTY - I don't know why, but I do find it > rather odd that Woody and Joni have never worked together in film. They > MUST know each other personally on some "artistic/personal" > level. Wonder if he ever approached her to act in one of his fims? For > some reason, it wouldn't surprise me - nor her replying "not > interested". Who knows? Ah, the inherent worthlessness of > conjecture!! hahaha I can imagine the fidgety, panicky WA approaching a reticent and visibly unamused JM and asking her if she can star in his film. Now that you mentioned it, I think Joni will do well as Alice in ALICE, or as WA's better half in MANHATTAN MURDER MYSTERY, or Anjelica Huston's character in CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS, or maybe just as one of Hannah's sisters -- say, Mia Farrow's character. Joseph in Manila np: Message personnel - Isabelle Huppert "Huit Femmes" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:05:08 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Travelogue review - OUCH From today's Boston Globe: "Joni Mitchell's latest reinvention reaches too far" Today, Joni Mitchell is releasing a new CD that many of her fans - definitely this one - will not want to play. Entire review here: http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/323/living/Joni_Mitchell_s_latest_rein vention_reaches_too_far+.shtml Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:20:21 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: the Canadian mentality Thanks to all who have made me feel so welcome - I'm feeling cozy already! Julius, I'm not sure there is a name for people who are interested in Canadian music, but do keep in mind that, like the music of any nation, a lot of it is crap. There is Celine Dion to contend with on the airwaves, after all, Alanis Morrisette and a whole roster of other unmentionables. The sad fact about Canada is that in order to be truly famous and recognized, even in Canada, they have to conquer the U.S. and international market - otherwise we don't take them seriously. Canadians have a very hard time with fame. We hate Canadians who are famous in Canada, but if they're famous in the U.S. we LEAP to their defence and proclaim our pride: "She's CANADIAN, you know!" Read: "She's ours, not yours - nya-nya na-boo-boo." We suffer from a collective inferiority complex thanks to living next to the most powerful and noisy nation on the planet, and we need validation from the world in order to feel okay about ourselves. We're the nation that looks in the mirror and asks other nations, "Do we look fat in this?" Having said that, Canada has consistently been kind to Joni Mitchell. Even in the beginning. Oh sure, she has her detractors here, like anywhere, but the general consensus seems to be that she is one of the most important Canadian people, right up there with Leonard Cohen, Neil Young and Oscar Peterson. She is honoured by our governments, provincial and federal, and the arts community never misses an opportunity to celebrate her, whether it's at the Mendel Gallery to exhibit her paintings or small-time theatre groups organizing Joni theatre, like the Prairie Theatre Exchange's "Joni Mitchell: River" and the Great Canadian Theatre Company's "When All The Slaves Are Free," here in Ottawa. CBC is also usually quite kind. Last year for Joni's birthday on a CBC radio program there was a day-long celebration of her work, playing such songs as "Goodbye Porkpie Hat," "Sisotowbel Lane" and "Comes Love" on FM radio! To make it all the more glorious, each song was introduced by a Canadian personality: Jane Sieberry, Carol Sheilds and the like. There are always people in Canada who feel betrayed by artists who "defect" to the U.S., but they don't have much choice. There is no such thing as "star maker machinery" in Canada. This keeps Canadians real and grounded - we don't idolize people the way a lot of Americans do; we're more likely to be comfortable meeting a celebrity, calmly and rationally, since the idea of hyperventilating in front of them and gushing about our undying love for them would be tasteless and rude - that's our mentality. "Hey, they're just like us except they've got money and they're on TV a lot. No biggie." But not having that kind of support for the arts also prevents truly talented artists from achieving wide recognition in our country without the help of the American system. In any case, Julius, anyone who knows about the introspective Canadians understands that we're always overjoyed by a bit of positive attention from our great and powerful neighbours to the south! As Sally Field would say, "They like us! They REALLY LIKE US!" - -Andrew Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:20:41 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue review - OUCH In a message dated 11/19/2002 12:05:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com writes: > Today, Joni Mitchell is releasing a new CD that many of her > fans - > definitely this one - will not want to play. Well, it may "ouch" but you can tell that the guy really loves Joni & is familiar with her entire body of work, not just C&S. Referencing PWWAM is a dead giveaway to that. As much as the RS critic didn't do his homework, this writer did. Bob NP: Jonatha Brooke, "Blood From A Stone" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:22:22 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: JMDL Mail Archive I never realized this worked as it does. Great for following current JMDL threads! http://www.mail-archive.com/joni%40jmdl.com/ Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:32:19 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: boston globe review. njc Well, well, well. That is some review. Will have to pretty well ignore it as they usually fail to truly explain what a work is; and I don't usually agree with them, ultimately. Jimmy's referral to Hooterville made me chuckle as I thought "Jimmy, you can't live there because I do." Have toyed with the idea of driving the distance and seeing if they are selling Joni but pretty well know they will not be. Worth a try but on the other hand, haven't completed my Joni collection as yet so will wait for that, I think, and see what everyone here thinks, just for fun. mack http://Stories.Com/authors/mackoliver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:26:40 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Travelogue review - OUCH > Today, Joni Mitchell is releasing a new CD that many of her fans - > definitely this one - will not want to play. > > Entire review here: The writer seems to know what he is speaking of and he touched on many nuanced "Joni moments" most Joni fans know and take pains to know. LIked that part where he said that her intellectualism made Joni a cut above the rest, but that THAT caused to be an undoing in re-doing songs that take the sass from the original. I haven't got TRAVELOGUE yet (God knows when it will arrive in Manila) so I can't comment on Joni's singing. But if BSN is used as a yardstick, I look at that stage in Joni as a singer/interpreter rather than as a songwriter. For obvious reasons. Joni's voice has this husk in her voice that gets attractive the older she gets. And I feel that she has a career in singing still even if she refuses to create new songs. I have this sneaking suspicion that Joni might actually be channeling her lack of original outputs by singing songs from her repertoire of 20 albums, just like what the writer said (Carly Simon admitted that she suffered from "writer's block" and was "hopelessly burned-out" during the time of FILM NOIR). Like I said earlier, the writer not only convinced me he is an old fan but he sounded vaguely familiar. He sounded like one or two List Members here or even the amalgamation of how JMDLers write. In short I enjoyed his piece and even if he intended to make the review negative, its quite obvious that his regard for Joni has not diminished. Come to think of it, do we know anyone who claimed they loved Joni before but not now? And why? Joseph in Manila np: Pile Oi Face - Emmanuelle Beart "Huit Femmes" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #501 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)