From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #499 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, November 18 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 499 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: November 18 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] swan song ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Judy's voice NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Thongs to a Seagul [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Swan song [FredNow@aol.com] NJC Re: Joni solo [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] t'log for uk listers at cd-wow [LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk] Re: Joni solo [Jerry Notaro ] RE: wow, such judgement njc ["Heather" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #498 [Kardinel@aol.com] T'log review [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: the cookbook, STILL! ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Joni's not the only one ["Jerry Notaro" ] Today's Mondegreen ["Lori Fye" ] RE: Joni solo ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: Bringing it all back (now NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] NY Daily News review:full text [Deb Messling ] Next station, Hope. NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: NY Daily News review:full text [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: Joni solo ["hell" ] Re: NJC Re: Joni solo [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: Joni solo ["hell" ] Re: NJC Re: Joni solo ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: VLJC Joni & Woody [Franklin Shea ] Re: NJC Re: Joni solo ["Sybil Skelton" ] Re: NJC Re: Joni solo [Janet Hess ] NJC RE: love etc..thoughts, thoughts, more thoughts [Franklin Shea ] Re: Jonifest 2003 Correction ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Boom boom pachyderm (njc) ["RSM" ] Re: NJC thoughts, more thoughts [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Boom booom pachyderm (njc) [Susan Guzzi ] First, they came for the (fill in the blank) ... njc [FredNow@aol.com] Joni TV documentary ["michael o'malley" ] Re: NJC Re: Life can be funny [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni TV documentary [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Joni TV documentary [Randy Remote ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 03:07:32 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 18 1966: Chuck and Joni perform at the Second Fret in Philadelphia. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:28:23 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: swan song john i. >She was never a commercial success because she was never about commerce.< oh, she was definately a commercial success in her early years... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 03:31:09 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy's voice NJC I very recently saw Judy Collins in concert, and although I really like her and it was a great concert, Judy's voice is not what it used to be at all. Judy's voice isn't what it was, correct. I last heard her in concert about 15 months ago and she sounded great (though "different") than when she was much younger. It's true she has "off " days, I'm sure. In fact, from the late 70s to the mid 90s her voice was "off" more than it was on. It's only in recent years that she's been singing consistently well (and able to achieve and sustain some remarkable high notes, higher than in her youth). If she was "off" in a recent performance, perhaps it was a fluke; I hope so. Bryan (Liking T'log More and More as I listen) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 03:50:29 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Thongs to a Seagul Gordon Mackie Been reading the deluge of posts and trying to synthesise some >thoughts but getting nowhere fast. As ever, Fred's got me thinking. >Where would we be without him. Glad to be of service. >Anyhoo, this notion about critics and >personal taste has made me reflect upon the idea 'Has Joni realised >her intent in putting together 'Travelogue' I haven't heard 'Travelogue' yet, but I've always felt that Joni's realization-to-intent ratio has been extremely high. >I laughed about one of the other posts about the tight knickered >Brits. Would that include the maestro himself Signor Mendoza? No, he is from the USA. >Serious thought time.....( not gigling but looking quizzical) ..again >its Fred that's go tme thinking....is it possible to express ideas >which are objective? Attaining true human objectivity is probably akin to attaining the speed of light ... one can continually approach it yet never totally get there. But I think there are some ideas, concepts, judgments, etc., that can come very close to objectivity. In artistic terms, it is a nearly objective, nearly universal, assessment that Joni (or Miles Davis, Beethoven, Shakespeare, what have you) is a great artist. This has nothing to do with taste ... there are many people for whom she is not their cup of tea. Indeed, popularity, in and of itself, is a dangerous test of objective artistic worth; millions of folks think The Beatles were great artists, and in a nearly objective sense this is likely true, but millions also think that Kenny G is a great artist, and in a nearly objective sense this is likely false. In other words, there are criteria that can be used to measure the excellence of craft, skill, inspiration, and invention in artistic endeavors, criteria which can be taught and learned, either formally or informally. There are reasons why the songs of Richard Rodgers are exceptional, reasons which are revealed in the very nuts-and-bolts of his work, and reasons why the songs of Andrew Lloyd Weber fail to meet these standards despite his massive popularity. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 04:00:36 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Swan song johnirving writes: >While the rest of us here see >"Orchestral" in the context of padding, cheese, and insubstantial >flourish Hey, speak for yourself! (insert emoticon here) >Joni heard the Orchestra as a deeper palette of color tones to >aurally paint with. And hired the great Vince Mendoza to do the aural painting ... an astute choice. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 06:41:04 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Joni solo In a message dated 11/17/2002 11:37:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: > I would hesitate to say that Bonnie or Santana staged a "come-back". Well Hell, you might be the only one to hesitate...Bonnie had 2 lackluster, poor-selling records behind her (Green Light & Nine Lives) and a problem with alcoholism when she exploded back on the scene with Nick of Time, and then locked in with 2 more solid releases. Santana was certainly putting out product, but it was just a lot of guitar/spiritual noodling - not that I (or many others) heard much of it. > They've been producing albums on a regular basis, just not albums which > caught the public attention. But let's not confuse the issue of doing work with doing GOOD work. There are not too many who can sustain the longevity of quality that Joni has...most jump the shark and never come back. I'm just proposing that Bonnie & Carlos came back with work that rivalled their best stuff. Santana's use of current popular artists like > > Rob Thomas, Dave Matthews, Everlast, Eric Clapton, etc. was a great > marketing ploy! > No doubt...Clive Davis @ Arista knows what he's doing and has the connections. BUT 'Supernatural' was also one damn fine record, and would have been even if he'd have had the same vocalist on every track. I was not familiar with Matchbox 20's music or Rob Thomas' voice, but "Smooth" was one of the best things on the radio all year. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:40:36 -0000 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: t'log for uk listers at cd-wow go to http://www4.cd-wow.com/ http://www4.cd-wow.com/detail_results.php?product_code=4067 for t'log at 12.99 i've ordered from these guys before and it takes 3 days to arrive from hong kong. might be worth if for the cost saving as this price includes delivery. check it out. les (london) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:41:11 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni solo dsk wrote: > > Joni's comments were unusually harsh and got so much attention it makes > me wonder if they and the whole swan song idea are part of the publicity > for the upcoming release... just an idea. > > Debra Shea Oh, Debra. You New Yorkers are so jaded. That could NEVER be it. Jerry, not a big fan of Madonna's, but just a bit disappointed at Joni's nastiness........ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:04:30 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: wow, such judgement njc or blooming _____. Heather - oh my ... i just realized that my name is a type of flower (or weed by some). - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Murphycopy@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:19 PM To: humbletiger@hotmail.com; joni@smoe.org Cc: courtandspark@earthlink.net Subject: Re: wow, such judgement njc << Erica wrote: > What do flower children become when they grow-up? >> Wilted? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:09:15 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #498 I think we are so used to spin that we are not used to someone telling it like it is. Madonna's videos-I especially disliked her Austin Powers video- are gross esp. for someone her age. No dignity at all. I guess Joni feels she might as well speak her mind. As far as David Letterman goes, I have a relative who owns some hotels and he told me David L. stays sometimes in one of his places. He described him as a "very unfunny man." Dour and quiet. So it's interesting to read some of the comments. All this aside, I am looking forward to the cd tomorrow morning. Have one held for me at the music store. I need something to look forward to esp. with the state of the world and the cold ice and snow up here in NE. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:13:27 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: T'log review In yesterday's NY Daily News, Jim Farber, their pop/rock music critic, called Travelogue 'supernatural theater' in a very positive review. bruce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:24:01 -0600 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: the cookbook, STILL! <> sure! just send me (privately! you wouldn't want muller sending you all those darned covers CDs) your mailing address, and i'll get one out to you..... (shhh..... i'm using the company's paper, binding materials, etc., so this is a freebie for all of us.) cindy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:33:25 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Joni's not the only one SHE'S NO GOOD, SHE'S NO GOOD, SHE'S NO GOOD: We're guessing that videos are among the things Linda Ronstadt has shunned since distancing herself from pop culture after her 1970s Top 40-belting heyday. Ronstadt, who has a preteen son and daughter, says she recently had to buy an Eminem CD to see if it was appropriate for an 11-year-old. "It's not," she tells New York's Daily News. She says she would have hated that answer when she was 11. But she doesn't care. "As a parent, I'm a Victorian." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:43:02 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Today's Mondegreen ... is brought to you by the merchants who roll their awnings down. : ) "Morning Morgantown" is SUCH a great Sunday morning song, and I was playing it yesterday as I cooked breakfast (Sugardale bacon, white rice, and fried eggs). From the kitchen, I overheard Mary singing along, and I had to grin when I heard this: "Wrap your dreams in eiderdown" Of course I gently corrected Mary, telling her it's "Buy your dreams a dollar down," which led to me pulling out the lyrics to prove it. Mary now says that HER interpretation is a better lyric! And you know, I think I agree! Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:51:26 -0500 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Joni solo Wading through the many posts that have accumulated since I left work on Friday...this may have played itself out, but on Saturday I read something that I thought worth sharing as it relates to the "should Joni do a simple solo project rather than get out of the business" thread. From Wall Street Journal, Friday November 15. "Fed up with expending hard work on records that few people bought or heard, and the radio didn't play, Mr. Cash had considered dispensing with his recording career altogether...Along comes Rick Rubin. Mr. Rubin, known for his production of cutting-edge rock acts like the Beastie Boys and the Red Hot Chili Peppers, liberated the artist from the shackles of record-label expectations. His purish vision, boiling Mr. Cash down to just guitar, voice and an endless stack of songs, brought the singer closer to the true nature of his artistry than any fancy studio in Music City could. This artistic freedom allowed Mr. Cash to explore , to try new songs, by young writers...to reinterpret old classics and delve into his own back catalog...'Rick told me,' relates Mr. Cash, 'I would like to just sit you down in front of a microphone and let you sing to your heart's content every song you ever wanted to record.'" I was struck by the similarities to the aforementioned thread. I would add, however, that it is OUR wish (for many of us) that she take this approach, not hers. She has chosen a route that is hers (not record-label dictated). If anything, I would think that her company would welcome the much-cheaper route that Johnny Cash has taken. But certainly it is a similar lament in that he didn't feel supported by the record company or the radio execs. Maggie NP: Beatles, "Good Day Sunshine" > -----Original Message----- > From: Patti Witten [mailto:patti@pattiwitten.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 7:35 AM > To: onlyJONI List > Subject: Re: Joni solo > > > Joni and the biz, solo or no? I believe her complaints about > the biz in > general are valid and always have been, but she's not going to win any > friends in high places this way. > > I think that one way she could make a comeback a la Raitt, Santana or > Clapton, would be to collaborate with current musicians (like > Santana and > Clapton have with Rob Thomas and Kenny "Babyface" Edmonds) either as a > natural extension of staying in touch with the musical > community or as a > more calculated decision. But it's my perception that she > never takes an > equal or backseat role in collaboration, preferring to > "drive." And why not, > good on her. Which brings us back to the gender roles issue, > perhaps -- the > bossy, bitchy female artist in American culture is not > exactly beloved. And > she would have to play big stadium tour dates to promote the resulting > comeback record. She does not seem to want to do either, or > perhaps no one > much wants to work with her, and/or her health prevents her > from going on > the road. > > A solo project, stripped down record would be so good... but > I guess her > current feel for composition doesn't go in this direction. She's an > orchestral composer, "orchestra" meaning large ensemble. Or > so it seems. > > Just some random thoughts. Of course I would love to see her > be happier and > more comfortable in the music biz, however she accomplished it. > > > NP: Patti Witten, "Walk A Mile > Bob, the new CD is ready and available at CD Baby and I-Town > Records. We had > a fantastic CD release gig last night. http://sycamoretryst.com > > NP: "Cipher" / Gabriel Tavares > > Patti > -- > Patti Witten, singer-songwriter > http://pattiwitten.com > Acoustic-Rock with a touch of Twang ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:15:21 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Bringing it all back (now NJC) Hi Franklin, Great post! Thanks for sharing all of that with us. And welcome *home*! Lori in MD ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:40:36 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni solo NJC Jerry Notaro wrote: > > Oh, Debra. You New Yorkers are so jaded. That could NEVER be it. Well, *somebody* has to counter that naive American optimism I keep reading about! Debra Shea, sending this from the home office of the happy and clear-sighted "if there's an underbelly, we'll find it, tickle it, then try to exploit it" brigade ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:56:45 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: NY Daily News review:full text Repaving paradise Joni Mitchell orchestrates her past; JONI MITCHELL "Travelogue" (Nonesuch) Who but Joni Mitchell would have the nerve to record a tribute album to herself? On the gutsy singer's latest release, she reconsiders 22 songs from her own catalogue, with the help of the 70-piece London Symphony Orchestra. Given the breadth of Mitchell's talent, she deserves the self-salute. As a lyricist, she should be enshrined in a triptych with Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen as the greatest wordsmiths of the last half century. As a musician, Mitchell long ago became inimitable, boasting a style so daunting and quirky it's nearly impossible for other artists to cover her stuff. In fact, there is already a multiartist tribute album to Mitchell, cut several years ago, which is languishing in the vaults. God knows what it sounds like. But in the meantime, we have the creator herself to give these amazing songs a second life. The impetus to do so grows out of Mitchell's last project, 2000's "Both Sides Now"  an album in which she covered American standards with the London Symphony Orchestra. She had the temerity to place two of her own compositions in that vaunted company  the title cut and "A Case of You." As it turned out, both those songs stood comfortably shoulder to shoulder with those by writers like Irving Berlin and George Gershwin. Still, covering the Mitchell classics on the new album invites some itchy comparisons. Even the liner notes to the CD warn longtime fans to warm up to these versions slowly. To say the least, Mitchell's voice has changed over the years. This lifelong heavy smoker has moved from a girlishly flighty soprano (until 1973) to a grandly fluid alto (from the mid-'70s to the late '80s), to a singer hampered by some serious technical limitations (in the '90s). While some singers gain character from damage, in Mitchell's case the years have made her tone increasingly shallow and coarse. Her range has narrowed to the point where it affects her ability to express herself. For this reason, it's easier to accept the covers of her more recent songs, like 1994's "The Sire of Sorrows" or "Borderline," where there's less degeneration from the versions we already know. It's more difficult to hear Mitchell gingerly work her way through once-soaring '70s classics like "The Last Time I Saw Richard" or "Amelia." What she's doing here sometimes seems less like singing than orating: Think Rex Harrison in "My Fair Lady." Essentially, she's narrating these songs. But the approach gives the pieces a strange and intriguing new perspective. In older songs, like "Trouble Child" or "For the Roses," Mitchell isn't singing as the scared and volatile character described in the songs, but rather as the observant author of them. And that puts a fresh focus on every burning word. If Mitchell's vocals can seem detached from the immediacy of the experience, she connects to a newly considered point of view. Placed amid the grandeur of the orchestral arrangements, Mitchell sounds as if she were looking back at her earthly experiences from the afterlife, delighting in the perceptions and errors of her past with a serene wisdom. In the end "Travelogue" seems almost like a supernatural piece of theater  unlike anything else out there, and quite apart from anything the artist has done before. From Joni Mitchell, should we expect anything less? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:20:11 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Next station, Hope. NJC Anyone (Brenda, Mags?) who has a copy of the Manu Chao CD 'Proxima Estacion, Esperanza' should follow this mail carefully. You will know that Manu's CD has a sample of these three words, meaning 'Next station, Hope', a phrase whose origin is the warning given on line 4 of the Madrid metro/subway for people intending to leave the train at that station. The phrase is repeated on three tracks on the CD and the dubbing actor and actress who recite these sacred words intend to sue Manu Chao for infringing their intellectual property rights. The actor also dubs Al Pacino, Warren Beatty, Ryan O'Neal, Gene Wilder, Jack Nicholson, Alan Alda and Tom Hanks, but obviously he needs the bucks. The actors are claiming damages also against Virgin Records, France, the distributor, and Radio Bemba, producer and editor of the CD. So, people, here's today's opinion poll: Are these plaintiffs a) bravely standing up against piracy, b) greedy bastards, c) dickheads who can't take a joke or d) unwitting victims of voracious lawyers who are desperate to get every penny out of a recording session that took place 7 years ago. Those of you in the law profession or the music business may have some light to shed on this grave issue. And especially important to me, is there any danger of the copyright police knocking on my door in the middle of the night? mike in barcelona NP manu chao - clandestino - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:27:38 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NY Daily News review:full text In a message dated 11/18/2002 1:56:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, messling@enter.net writes: > it's nearly impossible for other artists to cover her stuff. I'm not sure I would have used the phrase "nearly impossible"...;~) Bob, counting down to 1,100 covers now NP: BoDeans, "Cold Winter's Day" PS: Thanks for this review, Deb! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:37:28 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: NJC Re: Joni solo Bob wrote: > Well Hell, you might be the only one to hesitate...Bonnie had 2 lackluster, > poor-selling records behind her (Green Light & Nine Lives) and a problem with > alcoholism when she exploded back on the scene with Nick of Time, and then > locked in with 2 more solid releases. > Santana was certainly putting out product, but it was just a lot of > guitar/spiritual noodling - not that I (or many others) heard much of it. It depends on your definition of the word "come-back". To me, it applies to someone who has left the music business for a time, then re-enters at a later date, not someone who suddenly releases a "good" album. > No doubt...Clive Davis @ Arista knows what he's doing and has the > connections. BUT 'Supernatural' was also one damn fine record, and would have > been even if he'd have had the same vocalist on every track. I was not > familiar with Matchbox 20's music or Rob Thomas' voice, but "Smooth" was one > of the best things on the radio all year. Yes, but it was written by Rob Thomas, not Santana. Lauren Hill's contribution was written by Lauren Hill. Dave Matthew's song was co-written by Matthews and Santana. Everlast's song was written by Everlast. Wyclef Jean's song was co-written by Wyclef Jean and Santana (among others). Eagle-Eye Cherry's song was written by Eagle-Eye Cherry. If not for those artists, there would have been no album. It may have been released as a "Santana" album, but he contributed to the writing of only 7 of the 13 songs. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:56:19 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Joni solo In a message dated Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:37:28 +1300, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: > It depends on your definition of the word "come-back". To me, it applies to > someone who has left the music business for a time, then re-enters at a > later date, not someone who suddenly releases a "good" album. > True, but can't it also mean "coming back" from one or more weaker efforts? C'mon Hell, be flexible! ;~) But to support your case, Steely Dan's latest would be considered a comeback due to their ridiculously long absence, so both definitions apply, I think... It may have been released as a > "Santana" album, but he contributed to the writing of only > 7 of the 13 > songs. Again, point well made & taken. But even though he didn't do all the writing, the cd's got his stinging stamp all over it, and like you say it IS officially a Santana record. And as Santana's never been a vocalist anyway, it sort of puts him in a bit of a different category. So, the bottom line is...we agree!? :~) Bob NP: Billy Bragg, "The Few" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:08:32 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: NJC Re: Joni solo Bob wrote: > True, but can't it also mean "coming back" from one or more > weaker efforts? C'mon Hell, be flexible! ;~) But to support your > case, Steely Dan's latest would be considered a comeback due > to their ridiculously long absence, so both definitions apply, I think... Certainly, I just wanted to clarify exactly what I interpreted come-back to mean, in terms of the theme of the thread at the time. I agree you could apply that term to any number of different circumstances, and still be correct. > Again, point well made & taken. But even though he didn't do all the > writing, the cd's got his stinging stamp all over it, and like you say it > IS officially a Santana record. And as Santana's never been a vocalist > anyway, it sort of puts him in a bit of a different category. That's true as well, my point was just that I don't think the album would not have done anything much if not for those other artists contributions. Carlos Santana is an incredibly talented performer, and has produced some stand-out work, but I don't think it's coincidental that the songs that got the most air-play, and had the most success, were those written by his collaborators - who were popular in the industry at the time it was released. > So, the bottom line is...we agree!? :~) Oh, all right then..... I was just spoiling for a fight ;o)! Someone post something about NZ music being crap - that will get me going! Mind you, everyone will be posting about how much they love Travelogue in a couple of days, and that will get my blood boiling. I've been to three music stores here in the last week, and no one knows anything about it! I'll have to try the Borders store, damn it! Although they lied last time, and told me the hat box was available when it wasn't..... Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:20:25 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: NJC Re: Joni solo Tunes from New Zealand suck. lol mack > something about NZ music being crap - that will get me going! > > Mind you, everyone will be posting about how much they love Travelogue in a > couple of days, and that will get my blood boiling. I've been to three > music stores here in the last week, and no one knows anything about it! > I'll have to try the Borders store, damn it! Although they lied last time, > and told me the hat box was available when it wasn't..... > > Hell > ____________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be > great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > > hell@ihug.co.nz > Hell's Personal Photo Page: > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:16:04 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re: VLJC Joni & Woody Franklin here> WOW! Digest #498 - what a collaboration - very little filler!! lol So many interesting topics, perceptions, personalities. Kudos to all contributors! Joseph in Manilla wrote>I too like Woody Allen films and I have two of his books: "WithoutFeathers" and "Side Effects". I think he is brilliant if films like "Crimes and Misdemeanors," "Hannah and her Sisters," "Annie Hall," and "Manhattan" are concerned. Even in his misguided homage to Bergmann film called "Shadows and Fog" has its innate charm, not only because of the use of Kurt Weill's "Seven Deadly Sins" leitmotiv but because he can coax good acting from a ensemble cast (even Madonna, though only a few minutes onscreen, is good here). Franklin> I totally agree with this entire paragraph. In spite of his questionable personal defects (odd, spontaneous, choice of words - is it redundant? Isn't that what a personal defect is - a recognized trait that is questionable? Which leads to another question: What about unrecognized personal defects? They must be reacted to in unrecognized ways... but I digress.) I think that the reliable ensemble casts Woody has built around his movies are extraordinary, similar to what John Sayles has done in many ways. I love both their use of recurring actors - the ones they rely on. Both also have a definite knack of bringing out the best from actors one might expect the least from - I personally have never been able to "get" Alan Alda (the TV "Mash" was such a shallow, boring, dare I say, nauseating "rip-off" of Altman's classic, ground-breaking anti-war film (even the making of the film was ground-breaking - they had to hide everything they were doing from the "suits" until the entire thing was finished and "in the can". That Altman! (but another topic altogether) As far as Alan Alda - I finally "got" the guy to some degree in "Crimes and Misdemeanors" - but then again "when in doubt typecast"? Sayles did the same for that guy from the idiotic TV series "The Rookies" or whatever it was called in "Matewan" (he played the bigger of the two tough Pinkerton private cops) which is IMO one of the ten or twenty greatest films of all time. Not that familiar with his clarinet playing. Apparently, obiously, at the VERY least serious, and respected hobbyiest there. Joseph>When the Soon Yi Previn case happened, I was disgusted with his person but still managed to watch his films because of the delight I associate with them. I think his most underrated film of all time is "Husbands and Wives" with great performances from everyone but most especially from Judy Davis, Sydney POllack and Juliette Lewis. Franklin> Agree on both thoughts. Joseph> Of course, I realize that people have different views of Woody Allen as a person and as an artist. But this is how I see things and pop psychology aside, this might be revealing of my personality. Franklin> It IS revealing of your personality: you have both excellent taste AND high morals..LOL Thanks for the post - really enjoyed your thoughts. BTY - I don't know why, but I do find it rather odd that Woody and Joni have never worked together in film. They MUST know each other personally on some "artistic/personal" level. Wonder if he ever approached her to act in one of his fims? For some reason, it wouldn't surprise me - nor her replying "not interested". Who knows? Ah, the inherent worthlessness of conjecture!! hahaha ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:28:50 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: NJC Re: Joni solo > > something about NZ music being crap - that will get me going! What?! There is music in NZ?? I had no idea! Sybil _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:51:50 -0500 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: NJC Re: Joni solo Yeah, they got the idea from us. Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, who is currently working on her next NZ hit At 04:28 PM 11/18/2002 -0600, Sybil Skelton wrote: >What?! There is music in NZ?? I had no idea! > >Sybil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:56:39 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: NJC RE: love etc..thoughts, thoughts, more thoughts Colin wrote> Fear is the root of all things negative, I feel. ... > Hatred is fear unrecognized and out of control. Franklin> Wow... really powerful thought Colin. So, let me ask you (if I may) - is fear hatred recognized or "sensed" (subconsciously or otherwise) and in control?? I know it sounds kind of wishy-washy but as I pondered it (being mildly dyslexic, I see things "accidently" opposite sometimes) it actually kinda MAKES sense... SCARY! lol Debra wrote back to Colin> I have to agree with all that. Yes, that makes complete sense. If there's indifference then there is no relationship so love or fear or hate don't even come into it, and people can just walk away, unless it's family and then it's not always so simple. Franklin> It's odd, but think of how much "fear" indifference, indifferently creates. The one ignored thinking "what is wrong with me? Is it something I said, did? Am I not worth anything? Is it my looks, social standing?" Indifference inadvertently breeds fear then, in many situations - unless the one passed by has a solid self-image. Oh, the unforeseen, unconcerned damage that indifference has caused could probably fill libraries throughout the ages. The human spirit wants, yearns to make a difference - the ultimate threat, hurt, insult then is when it is treated indifferently. In fact, you can't even say "treated indifferently", because indifference doesn't even stop to do that. It ignores, and thus in a way, refuses to acknowledge one's very existence. Thanks for the mental stimulation you two - Franklin NP Fleetwood Mac "Bare Trees" maof (miniscule amount of filler) plus some of the best interweaving guitar work from two of the most tasteful guitar players to ever grace the planet - Danny Kirwan and Bob Welsh - Kick-ass, refined guitar work!! Also some great songs - "Danny's Song" I just love!! Here is a guitar player "singing" with his guitar. It is his "voice" and he is communicating his feelings through it. There are is some cool meaningless, chanting, but that is almost the "instrumentation" (get it, it's backwards) for the guitar's "voice". Ah, those world-class pro "lead" guitar players, ya gotta love em' (worship is strictly optional) lol ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:44:42 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2003 Correction Mea Culpa. This kind of thing happens every single year. I usually miss *something* when I make the Jonifest announcement, and this year, I wrote 2002 instead of 2003. I wish I could say I do it on purpose, to see if anyone is paying attention........but, alas.......the brain just isn't what it used to be. Ah, well. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:35:13 -0500 From: Eric W Taylor Subject: Boom boom pachyderm (njc) Fellow SIQUOMBites, This is too funny! Trying to keep it lite..... ET THE 2002 DARWIN AWARD For those not familiar with the Darwin Award, it is an annual honor bestowed posthumously upon the individual who provided the universal human gene pool the biggest service by getting killed in the most extraordinarily stupid way. Competition this year was, as usual, keen, but... THE WINNER IS... Paderborn, Germany - Overzealous zookeeper Friedrich Riesfeldt fed his constipated elephant, Stefan, twenty-two doses of animal laxative and more than a bushel of berries, figs, and prunes before the plugged-up pachyderm finally let fly, in the amount of 200 pounds, and suffocated the keeper. Investigators say the ill-fated Friedrich, 46, was attempting to give the ailing elephant an olive oil enema when the relieved beast unloaded on him. "The sheer force of the elephant's unexpected defecation knocked Mr. Riesfeldt to the ground, where he struck his head on a rock and lay unconscious as the elephant continued to evacuate his bowels on top of him," said flabbergasted Paderborn Police Chief Erik Dern. "With no one there to help him, he lay under all that dung for at least an hour before a watchman came along, and during that time he suffocated. It seems to be just one of those freak accidents that happen." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:39:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Jonifest 2003 Correction Wanna proof-reader? Lord knows I work cheap. Lama BTW, I found an unscrupulous CD store that will sell me the "TRAVELOGUE" set TODAY! I'm outta here!! They also have poly sleeves roomy enough for the old-fashioned gatefold LPs like HOSL. And DJRD. And C&S. And FTR. And..... Those days are loooong gone, friends. - --- AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > Mea Culpa. This kind of thing happens every single > year. I usually miss > *something* when I make the Jonifest announcement, > and this year, I wrote > 2002 instead of 2003. I wish I could say I do it on > purpose, to see if anyone > is paying attention........but, alas.......the brain > just isn't what it used > to be. Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:43:47 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: Boom boom pachyderm (njc) Smells kind of . . . fishy to me. In fact, the story is one of those an urban legends. See http://www.snopes.com/critters/malice/feces.htm . Duped again! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric W Taylor" To: Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 4:35 PM Subject: Boom boom pachyderm (njc) > Fellow SIQUOMBites, > This is too funny! > Trying to keep it lite..... > ET > > THE 2002 DARWIN AWARD > > For those not familiar with the Darwin Award, it is an annual honor > bestowed posthumously upon the individual who provided the universal > human gene pool the biggest service by getting killed in the most > extraordinarily stupid way. Competition this year was, as usual, keen, > but... > > THE WINNER IS... > > Paderborn, Germany - Overzealous zookeeper Friedrich Riesfeldt fed his > constipated elephant, Stefan, twenty-two doses of animal laxative and > more than a bushel of berries, figs, and prunes before the plugged-up > pachyderm finally let fly, in the amount of 200 pounds, and suffocated > the keeper. Investigators say the ill-fated Friedrich, 46, was > attempting to give the ailing elephant an olive oil enema when the > relieved beast unloaded on him. "The sheer force of the elephant's > unexpected defecation knocked Mr. Riesfeldt to the ground, where he > struck his head on a rock and lay unconscious as the elephant continued > to evacuate his bowels on top of him," said flabbergasted Paderborn > Police Chief Erik Dern. "With no one there to help him, he lay under all > that dung for at least an hour before a watchman came along, and during > that time he suffocated. It seems to be just one of those freak > accidents that happen." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:43:22 -0500 From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC thoughts, more thoughts > Franklin> It's odd, but think of how much "fear" indifference, > indifferently creates. The one ignored thinking "what is wrong with > me? Is it something I said, did? Am I not worth anything? Is it my > looks, social standing?" Indifference inadvertently breeds fear then, > in many situations - unless the one passed by has a solid self-image. What you're describing sounds more like "paranoia" to me, Franklin, which is defined as "irrational suspicion," whereas "fear" relates to the (rational) expectation or awareness of danger. Just a thought. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:02:14 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Boom booom pachyderm (njc) No sorry, I must agree with Eric here ...this story is definitely not .... bullshit! All puns - all the time - totally intended! Hurrying before one of you other freaks beats me to the punch! Peace, Susan NP: Norah Jones/Come Away With Me Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:17:34 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: First, they came for the (fill in the blank) ... njc You Are a Suspect By WILLIAM SAFIRE The New York Times WASHINGTON - If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage, here is what will happen to you: Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend - all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database." To this computerized dossier on your private life from commercial sources, add every piece of information that government has about you - passport application, driver's license and bridge toll records, judicial and divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the F.B.I., your lifetime paper trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance - and you have the supersnoop's dream: a "Total Information Awareness" about every U.S. citizen. This is not some far-out Orwellian scenario. It is what will happen to your personal freedom in the next few weeks if John Poindexter gets the unprecedented power he seeks. Remember Poindexter? Brilliant man, first in his class at the Naval Academy, later earned a doctorate in physics, rose to national security adviser under President Ronald Reagan. He had this brilliant idea of secretly selling missiles to Iran to pay ransom for hostages, and with the illicit proceeds to illegally support contras in Nicaragua. A jury convicted Poindexter in 1990 on five felony counts of misleading Congress and making false statements, but an appeals court overturned the verdict because Congress had given him immunity for his testimony. He famously asserted, "The buck stops here," arguing that the White House staff, and not the president, was responsible for fateful decisions that might prove embarrassing. This ring-knocking master of deceit is back again with a plan even more scandalous than Iran-contra. He heads the "Information Awareness Office" in the otherwise excellent Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which spawned the Internet and stealth aircraft technology. Poindexter is now realizing his 20-year dream: getting the "data-mining" power to snoop on every public and private act of every American. Even the hastily passed U.S.A. Patriot Act, which widened the scope of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and weakened 15 privacy laws, raised requirements for the government to report secret eavesdropping to Congress and the courts. But Poindexter's assault on individual privacy rides roughshod over such oversight. He is determined to break down the wall between commercial snooping and secret government intrusion. The disgraced admiral dismisses such necessary differentiation as bureaucratic "stovepiping." And he has been given a $200 million budget to create computer dossiers on 300 million Americans. When George W. Bush was running for president, he stood foursquare in defense of each person's medical, financial and communications privacy. But Poindexter, whose contempt for the restraints of oversight drew the Reagan administration into its most serious blunder, is still operating on the presumption that on such a sweeping theft of privacy rights, the buck ends with him and not with the president. This time, however, he has been seizing power in the open. In the past week John Markoff of The Times, followed by Robert O'Harrow of The Washington Post, have revealed the extent of Poindexter's operation, but editorialists have not grasped its undermining of the Freedom of Information Act. Political awareness can overcome "Total Information Awareness," the combined force of commercial and government snooping. In a similar overreach, Attorney General Ashcroft tried his Terrorism Information and Prevention System (TIPS), but public outrage at the use of gossips and postal workers as snoops caused the House to shoot it down. The Senate should now do the same to this other exploitation of fear. The Latin motto over Poindexter's new Pentagon office reads "Scientia Est Potentia" - "knowledge is power." Exactly: the government's infinite knowledge about you is its power over you. "We're just as concerned as the next person with protecting privacy," this brilliant mind blandly assured The Post. A jury found he spoke falsely before. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:53:13 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Joni TV documentary Here it is folks! Just in time to celebrate Travelogue! Airing Teusday, November 19th, 2002 from 9pmET (6PM PT) See this two-hour documentary at http://www.bravo.ca/aw_music/ Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now And Then In this exclusive documentary, the renowned Canadian singer-songwriter tells her story; in-depth interviews are interwoven with her words and music. The film explores the impact of lonely Prairie winters and childhood illness, an unplanned pregnancy, and a disastrous early marriage on Mitchell's evolution as a writer, vocalist and musician. Both Sides Now And Then features commentary from the prominent artists who know her personally, such as Neil Young and Bob Dylan, as well as the contemporary musicians she has influenced, like Prince, Tori Amos and Sarah McLachlan. (I'm just sick because we don't get this station in Quebec City! I will try to get someone in Montreal to tape it.) Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:11:27 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Re: Life can be funny --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated But mostly when I > dream about covers, I'm > under them with a female! :~) > Well, it had better be your wife, or I'm ratting you out!!! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:11:47 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Joni TV documentary Does anyone know whether this can be seen by people who have satellite TV in the U.S.? Is anybody going to tape this to share with us? Please!? michael o'malley wrote: > Here it is folks! > Just in time to celebrate Travelogue! Airing Teusday, November 19th, 2002 > from 9pmET (6PM PT) > See this two-hour documentary at > > http://www.bravo.ca/aw_music/ > > Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now And Then > In this exclusive documentary, the renowned Canadian singer-songwriter tells > her story; in-depth interviews are interwoven with her words and music. The > film explores the impact of lonely Prairie winters and childhood illness, an > unplanned pregnancy, and a disastrous early marriage on Mitchell's evolution > as a writer, vocalist and musician. Both Sides Now And Then features > commentary from the prominent artists who know her personally, such as Neil > Young and Bob Dylan, as well as the contemporary musicians she has influenced, > like Prince, Tori Amos and Sarah McLachlan. > > (I'm just sick because we don't get this station in Quebec City! I will try to > get someone in Montreal to tape it.) > > Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:11:32 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni TV documentary Very cool! Note that this is Bravo Canada. The US counterpart has no listing for this program in November. Yassup with that? michael o'malley wrote: > Here it is folks! > Just in time to celebrate Travelogue! Airing Teusday, November 19th, 2002 > from 9pmET (6PM PT) > See this two-hour documentary at > > http://www.bravo.ca/aw_music/ > > Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now And Then > In this exclusive documentary, the renowned Canadian singer-songwriter tells > her story; in-depth interviews are interwoven with her words and music. The > film explores the impact of lonely Prairie winters and childhood illness, an > unplanned pregnancy, and a disastrous early marriage on Mitchell's evolution > as a writer, vocalist and musician. Both Sides Now And Then features > commentary from the prominent artists who know her personally, such as Neil > Young and Bob Dylan, as well as the contemporary musicians she has influenced, > like Prince, Tori Amos and Sarah McLachlan. > > (I'm just sick because we don't get this station in Quebec City! I will try to > get someone in Montreal to tape it.) > > Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #499 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)