From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #498 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, November 18 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 498 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni and Woody [] Today in History: November 17 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: love etc. [was love is longsuffering] NJC [dsk ] Re: woody njc [Catherine McKay ] test njc ["colin" ] the jonifest tapes, anne, njc ["mack watson-bush" ] jmdl archives [Les Irvin ] Re: njc a patient attitude ["Erica L. Trudelle" ] Re: Re: so sad (NJC) ["Timothy Spong" ] DED njc. three great stimulants. ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Life can be funny NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: njc a patient attitude [Susan Guzzi ] NJC Re: Life can be funny [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni solo [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] NJC Re: Joni and Woody [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni solo ["hell" ] Re: NJC love etc. [dsk ] Re: Joni solo [dsk ] Re: love etc. [was love is longsuffering] NJC [dsk Subject: Re: Joni and Woody I too like Woody Allen films and I have two of his books: "Without Feathers" and "Side Effects". I think he is brilliant if films like "Crimes and Misdemeanors," "Hannah and her Sisters," "Annie Hall," and "Manhattan" are concerned. Even in his misguided homage to Bergmann film called "Shadows and Fog" has its innate charm, not only because of the use of Kurt Weill's "Seven Deadly Sins" leitmotiv but because he can coax good acting from a ensemble cast (even Madonna, though only a few minutes onscreen, is good here). His whiny, upper middle class, Freud-addled films may come across as ultra derivative but nobody can come close to the cinematic oeuvre (sp?) that explored the heart and other entrails of New York (except for his "Love and Death" which was shot in Europe and done in 1975). And I like his clarinet playing as well. I bought a CD of his where his band (whose name has a funeral and march somewhere) played live in Europe and it is as authentic a Dixieland re-imagination than the icons of that era. His choice of music in his films is another reason to see his films. He seems to understand the music he uses as objective correlative to the films. The crescendo, the tinny piccolo sound. Remember that scene in "Hannah and Her Sisters" where Michael Caine's character seduced Barbara Hershey. He put this classical record on the turntable to create the mood -- a prelude to seduction, then when he accidentally touched the needle of the turntable and inadvertently moved the music to its crescendo earlier than he imagined, he suddenly became all passionate because that us what he would have done if he reached that part of the music. When the Soon Yi Previn case happened, I was disgusted with his person but still managed to watch his films because of the delight I associate with them. I think his most underrated film of all time is "Husbands and Wives" with great performances from everyone but most especially from Judy Davis, Sydney POllack and Juliette Lewis. I sometimes wish that with Joni's recent foray in the jazz standards repertoire and given the deep contralto and the type of songs she sings, that she might be featured in a Woody Allen film, but I guess Woody Allen's legendary attention to detail in his films will compel him to use period music even if the contemporary version is just as good. Of course, I realize that people have different views of Woody Allen as a person and as an artist. But this is how I see things and pop psychology aside, this might be revealing of my personality. Joseph in Manila np: Dee Dee Bridgewater "Love and Peace: A Tribute to Horace Silver" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 03:23:54 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 17 1966: Chuck and Joni appear at the Second Fret in Philadelphia and are interviewed by Barry Bird. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=605 1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and others, performed twice today at the War Memorial Coliseum in Rochester, New York - once in the afternoon and again in the evening. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:04:13 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: love etc. [was love is longsuffering] NJC colin wrote: > > i think the > opposite of love is fear. Fear is the root of all things negative, I feel. ... > Hatred is fear unrecognized and out of control. I have to agree with all that. Yes, that makes complete sense. If there's indifference then there is no relationship so love or fear or hate don't even come into it, and people can just walk away, unless it's family and then it's not always so simple. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:42:56 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: love etc. [was love is longsuffering] NJC > If > there's indifference then there is no relationship maybe fear is also behind indifference. it seems to me indifference is the result of narcissism(sp?) and thus fear based again. > unless it's > family and then it's not always so simple. society pressures about family. family are the same as any other people-if they hurt you consistently, are abusive, walking away is the right thing to do. 'honour thyfather and thy mother' has caused untold misery to millions of people who stay in abusive relationships out of guilt and shame and efar of breaking this commandment. yes, even those without this religious pressure, still have the same message shoved at them. We wouldn't put up with bad friends so why shoudl family be different? Honour and respect and trust have to be earned. > > > Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:45:17 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: men!!!NJC > Killing John > will prevent John from further ruining his health. > i hadn't thought of killing as a way to prevent disease and suffering. good one vince. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:51:16 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: woody njc --- Kate Bennett wrote: > catherine wrote > >he's an ugly old man and he keeps going after these > young women (and for > some weird reason, he > gets them too - is it his, um, charm (where?) or his > money? I dunno.< > > maybe its that he plays his clarinet for > free...(does that make this post > now jc?) lol... Ewww - hahaha - ewwww - hahaha. (Torn between emotions) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:22:06 -0000 From: "colin" Subject: test njc ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:36:31 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: the jonifest tapes, anne, njc Anne, on this matutinal November morn I hear your words and like a clarion they touch me. Years ago, as a child, we would toil, or play, in the land of Eastern New Mexico; Daddy, Mama, my siblings and me. The eight of us, a family, and love filled my life and my days. Oft we would be there, in the fields, when the sun would begin to say goodbye for the day; the saffron light poured across the red clay of the earth and daylight segued into dusk. Hawks flew to and fro and let out their shrill cries as innumberable bunnies hopped to and fro, families as well, preparing for night, seemingly unafraid. I played as well and could hear my mama tell me to "get busy" but knew she would not enforce her words. The green crops seemed endless before my eyes and the expansive plains went on and on, forever. Never to roam, never to want, never to leave this place for this was home, this visage was eutopia. Sparrows, kitties, dog, lizards, horned toads, snakes, badgers, chickens, guineas, ants, mother, father, brothers and sisters; what more could a boy want or need? The days had to end and always did so though I fought the arrival of night with all the strength a young boy could find. They would come at those times, each night. Running quickly on thin, spindly legs. Rapid and quick, darting about the dune like soil; appearing and then quickly gone. Echoing and ringing; sweet longings, wistful whisperings caught each touch of breeze as we listened. "What is it Daddy?" "Hear that Mama, what is it?" ---"That's a killdeer." Almost ghostly, surrealistic was this creature, this bird, this singer of beauty. Imprinted into the soul is its cry, its song. Now, so long past those days, the killdeer sings to me again and that is Anne. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:56:24 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Bringing it all back Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:43:25 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: suggestion njc Franklin, Kate wrote> how about if you write something about joni, your favorite album or when you first heard her or something along those lines Franklin> Thoughtful recommendation from someone whose posts I generally enjoy (I'll hereby attempt to reciprocate). I will agree, that beginning with my hearty agreement regarding the three Joni CDs being discussed that were benchmark and "filler-free", things seemed to disintegrate there for a bit. (TIP: when contemplating along with other "posters" other potential artists having created "three in a row" ground-breaking, poetically profound, "filler-free" CDs in a row; do not, I repeat, do not recommend L.A. Cowboy http:www.mp3.lacowboy.com under any circumstances: or, word to the wise, do so at your own risk - as it seems to noticably irritate a certain "poster" here for inexplicable reasons, as said "poster" has confessed a lack of exposure and/or interest in above-stated artist's music anyway!????) My first introduction to JM was when my rowdy brothers and I were sequestered into a private boarding military high school (sort of as an acquiescence to my wealthy professional father's second wife - call it a "wedding gift"). He had custody of us at the time, as my intelligent, life-loving mother was suffering from what would inevitably become lifelong, chronic schyzophrenia. I was carted off, along with my Moroccan, blonde, opiated hash chunks (apparently compliments of returning Vietnam air force pilots who smuggled it into their cockpits) and (kick-ass) deep southern Mexican (read: connoisseur, exotic weed) stash. I also had my album collection: Led Zepplin, Cream, Savoy Brown, Rolling Stones, Beatles, Wishbone Ash, Jefferson Airplane, Eric Burden, Robin Trower, West Coast Pop Art Experiment (anyone remember them?), The Youngbloods, Atomic Rooster - you know doubt get the idea. The school consisted of an interesting mixture of 4th, 5th generation "blue-bloods, the national scion type, following family heritage, and a consortium of upper-middle class boys from around the country sent there for to gain/or for "discipline(ary) reasons, family problems, disinterested, preoccupied parents, etc. The Vietnam War was raging, and Military School was not a popular, cool hangout for a large, contingency of those among us who identified with each other(s plights?). The whole experience is a mixture of bad memories/good memories - the story of life, I guess. I felt abandoned, angry, trapped, embarrassed (cut hair and uniforms). Amidst the sneaky drinking, stoning, typical identity-seeking little rebellions extant at the time, I somehow found "Blue" (honorable mentions to "Tea for the Tillerman" - another ground-breaking, "filler-free" TOTAL classic). Between those two female/male troubadour's expressive artistic bookends I found solace, comfort, understanding, and above all, vehicles of inspired, poetic expression conveying MY thoughts, fears, dreams, ideals...they were both so filled with spirit and LOVE. Together, they gently escorted me through some of the most turbulent years of my life. There was something paradoxical represented in "Blue", in my young mind. Something about the melancholy, sadness, resignation - sprinkled with a little jest and joy, that ended up, in an odd way (which no doubt many here will appreciate) engendering hope. Hope in beauty, hope in intelligence, hope in the poetry - oh that beautiful, conversational poetry, hope in creativity as an answer, a voice in a perplexing world: creativity as - the spark of life. I wore that CD (read:album) out! Knew every word by heart, still do. (as an aside, I think the guitar tracks James Taylor contributed on several songs remain his finest, most innovative he ever played - inspired by Joni NO DOUBT!) Brought multiple copies (I had to, as I kept giving previous copies away). I never, through those rocky adolescent years, tired of playing it - all the way through no less than hundreds of times (an unbelievable, rare commendation for any work of art). And every listen somehow bolstered, strengthened, heartened, gave solace to my soul. Fell in love with/and too, C&S - while in an adolescent psych ward for six months after ala James Taylor (they didn't diagnose adolescent alcoholism/drug addiction in those days - too little money for Psychiatrists in the "treatment" model I guess) but that's another story/topic, and I'm attempting to avoid lengthening this post any further than necessary. Let's just say that certain "adults" deemed it necessary to have me "examined" for quitting a prestigious school- in the middle of a term no less - in which I had academically excelled (top of the class type shit). They wondered, I guess, why I would throw away such a privileged opportunity - I literally had my choice of "any college" opportunities due to my academic status as well as that of the high school. I must confess, in later years I have occasionally wondered as well. Ah, hindsight - and its mischievous lack of "presence". While I realize all of this is somewhat "broad brush", I hope it is an adequate introduction for a new member. To break into every nuance of each song, their special messages to me, etc. would surely be construed as "lengthy" and I suggest is better suited for further discussion, if interest exists, prevails. In fact, I would love to hear about/from those of you who would consider responding to Kate's same question. Kate>i have scrolled past your postings in the past few days due to the length & bantering nature of them & i suspect you maybe turning off some folks unintentionally... Franklin> Well, at least some folks on this list display some common sense occasionally! I scrolled by them too! LOL (BTY - at least you recognized it was "unintentional". I got the feeling that a post or two were attempting to turn me off "intentionally". Oh, well. Like a light bulb - being perpetually turned-on carries with it the risk of "burning out" quicker.) lol Everyone/thing has to be turned-off occasionally, whether by sleep or other, less satisfying, gratifying, regenerating methods. Kate>you seem quite intelligent so how about a joni subject to bring it all back to why we are all here? Franklin> Thank you for the compliment, I've noticed your apparent brain cell abundance as well! So why ARE we all here? (great question, rhetorical or not) I did note with mildly passing interest that 15 (slightly over half) of the postings on #497 have absolutely nothing to do with Joni. Several of the rest make merely passing mention. That leads me to believe that part of the vibrancy of this community has at least as much to do with the concept that JM is not only an amazing artist/human being to ponder, pontificate about and deconstruct, but also a "perfect" excuse for people with something in common to (dare I say) digress into other topics ranging from politics to rap, to tattoos, to hippie days, to opera, to feelings/philosophies, to health, to "sluts"/not "sluts", to Woody or not to Woody: that is the question - lol etc. That's fine with me (as it makes total sense). Those who congregate simply display (as most people in most situations do) their multi-dimensional personas, interests, feelings, fears, joys, concerns etc., and thus themselves to each other as the bonds of interest and friendship grow and flourish in a multitude of uncharted, unchartable directions - and I think that is cool. Thank you Joni (where ever you are) for providing (inadvertently or otherwise) this opportunity for complex people to communicate their varied thoughts and feelings, all because of a mutual love for an inspired, inspiring, complex artist! And thanks to you Kate for gently expressing your concern, compliments and care. (Do you really know Joni personally?? Wow! Must be really, well, wonderful.) Just asking; some of your posts seem to indicate that. Franklin NP L.A. Cowboy - "The Brilliant Failure" Postscript: This artist is one of a few who have supplied in my adult life much of what "Blue" and "Tea for the Tillerman" did in my youth: See above for descriptive details of those life-enhancing, spirit-feeding, soul-comforting contributions. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:18:30 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: jmdl archives Joniphiles - I'm missing a few digests from my list archive. Are there any old-timers out there that have the final digests before the conversion to Smoe? I'm in need of digests Volume 03: Number 041 (January 22, 1998) through the end of the Listbox days (June 22, 1998). Email me off-list if you can help. Thanks, Les NP: David Bromberg: "Chump Man Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:16:49 -0500 From: "Erica L. Trudelle" Subject: Re: njc a patient attitude Colin wrote: I find it odd that people who profess such a love of Jesus can be so much the opposite of what he stood for. This seems to be a reoccuring subject topic in conversations I have been having lately......there is alot to be said about this, I wish I had written my term paper on it in my "Psychology of Religion" class! I find it makes people a little uncomfortable when you bring up the idea of what would Jesus do in certain situations. A born-again guy I used to work with was very upset with the idea that we could do anything but WORSHIP Jesus and just thank him, when I would bring up living by example he got upset and would say something like "We all fall short" "No one can be like Jesus".....obviously he wasn't open to a conversation about it, I'd usually just let it end there. He told me I was going to hell anyway because I loved Bob Marley and was always reading Buddhist teachings, "Buddha didn't DIE FOR OUR SINS." He'd always say. Erica _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:19:16 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Re: Re: so sad (NJC) Ashara wrote (in part): ... "Judy's voice is not what it used to be at all," referring to a Judy Collins concert which Ashara recently attended. I attended a J.C. concert about 11 months ago, and I thought the voice WAS all it used to be. Two possible explanations: 1) Judy was having an off day/night (others have reported this phenomenon). 2) Judy's voice has deteriorated, noticeably and permanently, in the last 11 months. I sure hope 1) is correct. Can anyone provide more info? Please copy me off-list; I get the "only-Joni" digest. Thanks. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:34:46 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: DED njc. three great stimulants. Would be very interested in hearing thoughts on this one. I do find that I am picking up some of the meaning but there must be hidden meanings that I am not finding as I don't really understand much of it. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:08:13 -0600 From: johnirving Subject: Swan song. Well, just days away from Joni's Swan Song... I did not truely understand Joni until the brilliant piece done for Star Art, during the heady days between recording Don Juan and Mingus. The shots of her surrounded by turqois, lavander and ochre landscapes. The radiance in her gaze and the sweeping land behind her revealed the true picture of her. I had always imagined the music was the difficult part and that her beautiful words flowed easily, effortlessy and often. It turns out I had it backwards. Melodies and music come easy to her. It's the words that take forever and at times were as difficult as child birth. The poetess and intellectual I envisioned turned out to be an emotive and spiritual painter. She thinks in metaphor and imagery. Understanding her as an aural painter allows everything about her to make sense. She was never a commercial success because she was never about commerce. The girl made Art songs with the aesthetics of a painter. The melodies and chords are but painterly strokes of emotion or painterly visual references in sonic form. While the rest of us here see "Orchestral" in the context of padding, cheese, and insubstantial flourish, Joni heard the Orchestra as a deeper palette of color tones to aurally paint with. She heard it as a sweeping panoramic visual to float her voice across. -I suspect the end result of that one lone voice against such a sweeping musical backdrop (-Canadian plains again?) will lend her music the same intimacy and emotion as the early days when it was just her and one lone guitar. Except now, we can physically hear the full painting she heard in her head as she played them, and had so much trouble finding musicians to help make it audible and real. She is flesh and blood, and vision. The great ones can see posibilities the rest of us are simply blind to. Her Swan Song will prove again that she's won of the great, great ones. Thanks, Joni. You have painted with words. You have painted with music. Release yourself in the genuine thing and enjoy your living time. j. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:23:29 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Life can be funny NJC In a message dated 11/16/2002 2:56:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, Cactustree78@aol.com writes: > ALERT COVERS KING...Tori covered River tonight and I wasnt there...UGGH Thanks, Kevin...she covered it on last tour & we've got a nice copy of it (Indianapolis concert) Bob, catching up... NP: Foo Fighters, "Halo" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:26:04 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: njc a patient attitude Having been raised Catholic, 12 years of their schooling, I have serious problems with organized religion. Having said that I now consider myself to be an atheist. Success! LOL! But seriously, Erica, I feel I live a spiritual life, granted on a different level, I consider myself to be a humanist. And each day I "try" to be a better human being. And I must admit that although I do not believe in the bible - historically, I do remember the lessons and do try to live my life in the image of a great prophet, who may have walked the earth - Jesus. Oh I am no saint.... and yes we all fall short. But those bible thumpers need to look inside themselves to find their god - their Jesus. Every Sunday, I awake to the sounds of car horns and yelling and impatience - from what - from the Catholic church across the street from me - Oh and Easter we should have riot police here! The cars and the scurrying for the lot or street parking - - it's quite the scene! It's nice to see all thoe god fearing, Jesus people going to worship and immediately asking for forgiveness for being selfish hypocrites. This does not make me better than them -God knows - (pun totally intended). However, I will not be demonized by any one else for my dogma. From what I learned in Catholicism, we are supposed to live in Jesus's image. We may not succeed - but the effort should be there. And those who profess to be God's spokesperson are not without sin and need to remember that little story about casting stones. In my opinion your old born again co-worker was soo wrong. And here is the real trick ...Does this alleged God want faith-allegiance or goodness? I believe that goodness and good spirit bring about a faith or belief. That is why organized religion operates so ass backwards! So if I am wrong and there is a God in my end to judge, what I may lack in faith hopefully will be more than made up for in effort and work and some success in living as a fair minded, loving, peaceful human being. No "one" died for our sins. For mine alone he's have to die a thousand deaths! LOL! Thanks for letting the atheist vent. Peace, Susan NP: Jonatha Brook/Room In My Heart > > --- "Erica L. Trudelle" wrote: > > Colin wrote: > > > > I find it odd that people who profess such a love of Jesus can be so much > > the > > opposite of what he stood for. > > > > > > > > This seems to be a reoccuring subject topic in conversations I have been > > having lately......there is alot to be said about this, I wish I had written > > my term paper on it in my "Psychology of Religion" class! I find it makes > > people a little uncomfortable when you bring up the idea of what would Jesus > > do in certain situations. A born-again guy I used to work with was very > > upset with the idea that we could do anything but WORSHIP Jesus and just > > thank him, when I would bring up living by example he got upset and would > > say something like "We all fall short" "No one can be like > > Jesus".....obviously he wasn't open to a conversation about it, I'd usually > > just let it end there. He told me I was going to hell anyway because I loved > > Bob Marley and was always reading Buddhist teachings, "Buddha didn't DIE FOR > > OUR SINS." He'd always say. > > > > Erica > > > > > > > > ________________ Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:50:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Life can be funny In a message dated 11/16/2002 6:41:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, messling@enter.net writes: > Bob, do you ever > dream about Joni covers? > I imagine that I probably do...as I'm sure you know, we only truly recall about 10% or so of our dreams. But mostly when I dream about covers, I'm under them with a female! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:55:43 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni solo In a message dated 11/16/2002 8:35:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, patti@pattiwitten.com writes: > I think that one way she could make a comeback a la Raitt, Santana or > Clapton, would be to collaborate with current musicians Possibly, Patti, but the last time she tried this trick we got CMIARS, her nadir. This gimmick just didn't come off as being very genuine (and even Santana's follow-up is a bit contrived). I think she can make it on her own terms, more like Bonnie did, with a powerhouse of a well-produced record filled with great NEW songs. > > >NP: Patti Witten, "Walk A Mile > Bob, the new CD is ready and available at CD Baby and I-Town Records. We > had > a fantastic CD release gig last night. http://sycamoretryst.com Awesome Patti...thanks for the heads up. I know that the JMDL is sick of hearing my praise from "Land of Souvenirs", but it gets better every time I hear it! Right now I'm pretty much a pauper, but I get paid on Friday! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:58:53 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Joni and Woody In a message dated 11/16/2002 6:06:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, seanhewitt@yahoo.com writes: > Hi, I'm a long-time JM fan who has just joined the list. Hi Sean, and welcome to the Joni list! I guess we'll be picking up quite a few newbies with a new Joni coming out in just TWO DAYS! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:37:29 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Joni solo Bob wrote: > Possibly, Patti, but the last time she tried this trick we got CMIARS, her > nadir. This gimmick just didn't come off as being very genuine (and even > Santana's follow-up is a bit contrived). I think she can make it on her own > terms, more like Bonnie did, with a powerhouse of a well-produced record > filled with great NEW songs. I would hesitate to say that Bonnie or Santana staged a "come-back". They've been producing albums on a regular basis, just not albums which caught the public attention. Santana's use of current popular artists like Rob Thomas, Dave Matthews, Everlast, Eric Clapton, etc. was a great marketing ploy! Joni has collaborated with a large number of people over the years, including Lionel Richie, James Taylor, Peter Gabriel, Tom Petty, Billy Idol, Willy Nelson, Seal, etc. and has been sampled by Janet Jackson. She's also had a version of BYT on the "Friends" soundtrack. I can't see another collaborative effort making much difference to her "popularity" or market appeal. Let's face it, Joni is nearly 60 years old, an age where most people are considering retirement, and turning their interests to other things. She has a large, incredibly diverse and intelligent body of work behind her, and while I would dearly love to see another album of originals, I can definitely understand her desire to slow things down and concentrate on her painting and family. Perhaps her recent attacks on the music business are a sign that she's slowing down, but maybe doesn't want to admit it to herself. So she's casting "blame" for not wanting to record again at the feet of the music industry, rather than retiring gracefully! She's going out with a bang, not a whimper (no less than I'd expect from our Joan)! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:48:14 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: NJC love etc. Franklin Shea wrote: > > I want to more consistently succeed at that also. Most of > the people here seem like such life-affirming, interesting, wonderful > folk. Thank you for your fine thoughts. I appreciated them. Where > are you from, if I might inquire? Perhaps (no cringing now) we are > related. Is Shea your maiden name or married? Do you know which > county in Ireland your Shea's came from? Mine hail from Kilkenny. > There are a lot of Shea's in Iowa, Nebraska, particularly the Chicago > area... all over no doubt. Oh, yes, the Irish are all over. Amazing, considering how small Ireland is. Shea is a middle name from my mother's side of the family, and no doubt you and I are related somehow, but then I think everyone is if we look far enough back. Both sides of my family have been in North Carolina for centuries so stories of the family emigration have been lost, except for the story of an ancestor on my father's side being one of four brothers who came from England together; each of them then settled in a different Southern state. Apparently they needed LOTS of space! A few family members moved up near Washington, DC, during WWII to work and a few later moved down to Florida. I'm the only one who's ventured above the Mason-Dixon line. And here in NYC, the Irish are everywhere! It's great! I think their influence helped create the outspoken attitude and talkativeness of most of the people here, and definitely has given the city the best bars, or as one Irish friend says, *ALL* the bars (sometimes they're even called pubs). > BTY - you're awfully polite for Irish... lol I definitely have my hot button issues, as some people here know all too well! And, hey, are you saying the Irish are not polite? You're sounding like Princess Margaret, but she probably wasn't doing any lol-ing. > I'm going to give that "Dark to the Heart" a listen after the > sincere, enthusiastic recommendation... thanks. I'll weigh in after a > few listens. There may be other cds that long-time Cockburn fans would consider better ones. Even with the occasional gushing here, I put off buying anything mostly because he's a self-described Christian, and I imagined his music to be Amy Grant-like proselytizing, and that doesn't interest me at all. A friend included some of his songs on a compilation and I liked them a lot, so that plus the recommendations here finally got me to buy one of his cds. It turns out Cockburn's music, at least what I've heard so far, is not self-righteous, preachy or even overtly Christian, the lyrics are complex and often about love, I like his voice, and I love his guitar playing. I'm not at the gushing stage, but my assumptions were way off. So, all in all, a nice surprise. I look forward to hearing your take on it once you have a chance to listen to some of his music. And, btw, welcome to the list :-) atb, Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 01:03:04 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni solo hell wrote: > > She's going out with a bang, not > a whimper (no less than I'd expect from our Joan)! Her telling-it-as-she-sees-it comments really are getting around. This blurb from W was in this week's Time magazine in the "Verbatim" column: "Madonna has knocked the importance of talent out of the arena. She's manufactured." - --JONI MITCHELL, songwriter, talking about the music industry What a pleasant surprise to turn the page and have Joni's name jump out at me! That's not happened in a long time. As the saying goes, "any publicity is good publicity." Joni's comments were unusually harsh and got so much attention it makes me wonder if they and the whole swan song idea are part of the publicity for the upcoming release... just an idea. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 02:06:49 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: love etc. [was love is longsuffering] NJC colin wrote: > > society pressures about family. family are the same as any other people-if they hurt > you consistently, are abusive, walking away is the right thing to do. 'honour > thyfather and thy mother' has caused untold misery to millions of people who stay in > abusive relationships out of guilt and shame and efar of breaking this commandment. > yes, even those without this religious pressure, still have the same message shoved > at them. > We wouldn't put up with bad friends so why shoudl family be different? Honour and > respect and trust have to be earned. True. There are many ties within families in addition to the parent/child one, but I agree that the idea of respecting parents no matter how they've behaved, the "honor thy father and mother" rule, can sometimes be used just to keep the abuse going. The advice columnist Ann Landers (or maybe it was her twin sister, Dear Abby) gave some surprising advice to a mother who'd written in saying that her son had been completely ignored by his grandmother while he was growing up and now he was going to college near her, and she had lists of things for him to do and expected him to be "on call" since he and she were family. So what was he to do? Ann said that the grandmother had not earned such attention and, most surprisingly, the mother was to make sure the son felt no guilt at not spending his time taking care of his grandmother's needs since she had so coldly ignored him for years. That made perfect sense to me, but you hardly ever hear that viewpoint, and it was shocking to see it so plainly stated in a nationally-syndicated column. Debra Shea ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #498 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)