From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #496 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, November 16 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 496 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: November 16 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Mingus songbook - request ["Marian Russell " ] Re: john sickNJC [Julius Raymond ] Re: john sickNJC ["kakki" ] Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits [Rosanella ] azeem2 ["mike pritchard" ] gil scott-heron ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Wagner NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Life can be funny [Deb Messling ] Re: Travelogue album edition issue PLay.com [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubai] RE: Wagner NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] copying mails NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] RE: What Nonesuch Records is trying to say....NJC [Mags N Brei ] Re: Joni solo [Catherine McKay ] Re: Wagner NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Wagner, now woody Allen? NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits ["RSM" ] njc Re: love is longsuffering [Franklin Shea ] EW Review of Travelogue - A-! [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: njc Re: love is longsuffering [colin ] Re: Wagner NJC [colin ] men!!!NJC [colin ] Re: njc Re: love is longsuffering [Franklin Shea ] love etc. [was love is longsuffering] NJC [dsk ] RE: Wagner NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: men!!!NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Reba, njc [nyroman ] Travelogue Review in EW [Lindsay Moon ] USA Today article on "Travelogue" ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: njc Re: love is longsuffering [colin ] Haagen Daz IncidentNJC [colin ] Re: love etc. [was love is longsuffering] NJC [colin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 03:07:22 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 16 1966: Chuck and Joni began a six day engagement at the Second Fret in Philadelphia. 1975: A phone call was placed to someone involved in the Rolling Thunder Review, inviting them to drop by the Tuscarora Indian Reservation located near the US side of Niagra Falls. Many of the group, including Joni, Dylan, and Eric Anderson, showed up at the Reservation's Community House and swapped songs. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 03:21:10 -0500 From: "Marian Russell " Subject: Mingus songbook - request Does anyone have an extra copy of the Mingus songbook? I know someone in the USA who is looking for one and she hasn't been able to find it anywhere. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:33:53 -0800 From: Julius Raymond Subject: Re: john sickNJC > So send your best thoughts out for John please. > bw > colin Sending mine in droves now, colin. Hope he gets well speedily... - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 23:58:50 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: john sickNJC Yes, how frightening for you and John, colin. Sending out good thoughts for his speedy recovery. Please give us an update when you have a chance. Kakki > > So send your best thoughts out for John please. > > bw > > colin > > Sending mine in droves now, colin. Hope he gets well speedily... > > -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 09:19:09 +0000 From: Rosanella Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits Joni is a very wise woman. Regards. Rosanella rosanella@ntlworld.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:19:23 -0800 From: "flopit" Subject: travelog first off - thanks to the kind person who posted the links to the swf files. the sound quality is not *that* bad - (hint - go & get a decent sound card & a decent speaker/amp system. doing computer duty is a great way to put an old stereo out to pasture after its been replaced !!!!!) initially i was really shocked by the sadness of the music. her voice, the phrasing of old familiar lyrics in a new understated way, and the wonderful orchestration without all the cheese i was so worried i was going to hear - but just so damn sad - swan song would have been a wonderful title for this album - t'log may describe the range of songs - swansong would have been far more apt for the feel of the songs. then i clicked on woodstock. i was rivetted. something fell into place. i *love* this version... & with repeated listening i have come to love the rest of the tracks made available. this will probably neverf be a favourite on the lines of S&L or DJRD or H (now theres an abbreviation which is open to misinterpretation..) ron michelle shocked - penny evans ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:07:55 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: azeem2 >>I'm coming back to this a little after the fact: go away for a day and find 186 emails in my inbox. Anyway, I want to make it clear that I was IN NO WAY suggesting that it's OK to use sexist or misogynist language about anyone. You were reading more into my comment than was there, Mike.<< Azeem, I know this and said so twice in my comment. I said "I know Azeem and Jerry are not saying that it IS OK," and I also said that your comment and Jerry's comment " could, I repeat could, be read as a justification, if one was in a pedantic mood. Which I'm not," I think/thought that I had made it clear that I was referring to another possible reading, which only a pedantic person (or a normal person in a pedantic mood) could make if they were so inclined. Everything I have read by you Azeem would lead me to the opposite conclusion, i.e. that you are a fair minded, socially aware person with a fine sense of right and wrong and I wouldn't expect ever to find you using or condoning sexist, racist or other offensive language. That said, I was trying to make clear that even people like you, or me, or anyone, can write or say something open to misinterpretation. If I have offended you or Jerry by my remarks I regret it, but I think/hope you will accept these words as an explanation of why I wrote what I wrote yesterday. mike in bcn NP Courtney Pine. In a mellow tone ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:11:35 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: gil scott-heron Vince said >>I have "revolution/televised" in a greatest hits cd album of G S-H and somewhere have it on the original album on vinyl but will have to dig it out to know what the album was called. Did his grandfather really play soccer or are you just tricking us?<< Mike replies Err, actually no, but his father did. See following Q and A from the Guardian. >>Did the father of Gil Scott-Heron, jazz radical, play for Celtic in the fifties (maybe sixties) and if so for how long and to what effect? asks Greig Aitken Gilbert Heron began his footballing career in the Canadian Air Force and went on to play for the Detroit Wolverines, Chicago Sting and Detroit Corinthians. He signed for Celtic in 1951 after scoring twice in an open trial. Heron would only play one league game for the Hoops, however, although he would make four appearances in the Scottish League Cup, scoring two goals. He was released by the club in 1952 and went on to enjoy short spells with Third Lanark and Kidderminster Harriers. His son - who made his name in 1970 with the superb jazz-funk polemic The Revolution Will Not Be Televised - was recently asked about his father's exploits by Scottish magazine One: "It's a blessing from the spirits. Like that's the two things that Scottish folks love the most; music and football, and they got one representative from each of those from my family. Personally I support Rangers and I'm going to wear my Celtic scarf and Rangers hat when I come over."<< mike in barcelona np a raggamuffin's stance by courtney pine ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:26:04 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Wagner NJC Wally wrote >>sometimes many of you sound like those people who stopped LIKING woody allen movies after he married his step-daughter.<< I stopped liking him after he started referring to women as 'cunts' in his movies. Have I no right to stop liking him for whatever reason I deem appropriate? mike in barcelona np Courtney Pine - I'm an old cowhand from the rio grande ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:40:39 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Life can be funny I don't know anything about Tori Amos, but last night I dreamed that she released an EP with a cover of Blonde in the Bleachers. Bob, do you ever dream about Joni covers? At 02:53 AM 11/16/02 -0500, you wrote: >.ALERT COVERS KING...Tori covered River tonight - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:50:33 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Travelogue album edition issue PLay.com Well, play.com have pushed the UK release date back inline with the rest of the UK (and I thought play.com was an American import site!) and it doesn't say which edition it is... so I might just go to hmv.com and order the one for GBP 17.99 as it is the collectors edition... A little disappointed Much Joni Jamie Zoob Moni Kellermann wrote:I guess that the description of the German promoter was correct, i.e. a box containing 2 booklets and 2 CD's. He seems not to have noticed that one of the CD's is enhanced. Thanx for the info, Billy! :)) Although the German release date is listed as Nov. 25, I hope I will get my copy next week, I am really keen to see more of the paintings! Billy: how big are the images of the paintings displayed on the CD in terms of resolution? Are they full-screen? moni - --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 09:22:20 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Wagner NJC yes, you may dislike whomever you deem fit. wallyK -----Mensaje original----- De: mike pritchard [mailto:ink08@hotmail.com] Enviado el: Sabado, 16 de Noviembre de 2002 08:26 a.m. Para: wally kairuz; list Asunto: Re: Wagner NJC Wally wrote >>sometimes many of you sound like those people who stopped LIKING woody allen movies after he married his step-daughter.<< I stopped liking him after he started referring to women as 'cunts' in his movies. Have I no right to stop liking him for whatever reason I deem appropriate? mike in barcelona np Courtney Pine  I'm an old cowhand from the rio grande ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:19:53 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: copying mails NJC I have received a number of copied mails recently and have attempted to reply to them all by using the reply button on the PC but have now realised that this only copies to one address and not to the others on the original mail. For this reason I replied, for instance, to Jerry with a mail intended for the entire list, or on the othe hand replied to the list but not expressly to the sender or the other people included as CC. Sorry about that. I'll try to make it more clear in the future. PS My remarks to Azeem apply also apply to my remarks about Jerry; i.e. I was not suggesting that they used or approved of offensive langauge to anyone, only that their words could be open to a malicious interpretation. I said so to Azeem and thought that Jerry would also see this mail but perhaps it didn't get to Jerry. If so, then please, Jerry, accept my apologies here.mike in bcn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 05:25:32 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: RE: What Nonesuch Records is trying to say....NJC "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote: If my dictionary had said what yours said, I would NOT have associated it with you or any of my friends. I didn't know what the word meant so I looked it up. Based on the web site, the birth-mother's regret angle was my association. My definition came from an online, free dictionary and yours came from the scholary Oxford family. Naturally, I'll defer to the Oxford definition and withdraw from the hurtful and un-intended connotation it conjurs. Hurting wasn't my intent. no worries Lama, and no harm done. When I read the word 'remorse' I thought, hmm thats not how I feel. I wasnt assigning any blame or anything at all your way. Mags, thinking about Joni's phrase 'no need to explain', and feeling that, it's pretty much impossible to anyway. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:35:27 -0400 From: Patti Witten Subject: Re: Joni solo Joni and the biz, solo or no? I believe her complaints about the biz in general are valid and always have been, but she's not going to win any friends in high places this way. I think that one way she could make a comeback a la Raitt, Santana or Clapton, would be to collaborate with current musicians (like Santana and Clapton have with Rob Thomas and Kenny "Babyface" Edmonds) either as a natural extension of staying in touch with the musical community or as a more calculated decision. But it's my perception that she never takes an equal or backseat role in collaboration, preferring to "drive." And why not, good on her. Which brings us back to the gender roles issue, perhaps -- the bossy, bitchy female artist in American culture is not exactly beloved. And she would have to play big stadium tour dates to promote the resulting comeback record. She does not seem to want to do either, or perhaps no one much wants to work with her, and/or her health prevents her from going on the road. A solo project, stripped down record would be so good... but I guess her current feel for composition doesn't go in this direction. She's an orchestral composer, "orchestra" meaning large ensemble. Or so it seems. Just some random thoughts. Of course I would love to see her be happier and more comfortable in the music biz, however she accomplished it. > NP: Patti Witten, "Walk A Mile Bob, the new CD is ready and available at CD Baby and I-Town Records. We had a fantastic CD release gig last night. http://sycamoretryst.com NP: "Cipher" / Gabriel Tavares Patti - -- Patti Witten, singer-songwriter http://pattiwitten.com Acoustic-Rock with a touch of Twang ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 09:01:25 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni solo --- Patti Witten wrote: > Joni and the biz, solo or no? I believe her > complaints about the biz in > general are valid and always have been, but she's > not going to win any > friends in high places this way. > > I think that one way she could make a comeback a la > Raitt, Santana or > Clapton, would be to collaborate with current > musicians (like Santana and > Clapton have with Rob Thomas and Kenny "Babyface" > Edmonds) I'd like to see/hear Joni do an album with a stripped-down jazz group (bass, piano, drums, guitar sort of thing.) If she's going to duets with popular artists thing, here's a few suggestions: Lead Balloon with Eminem Don Juan's Reckless Daughter with Santana Dancin' fool with Pavarotti (ha ha). ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 09:17:58 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Wagner NJC --- mike pritchard wrote: > > I stopped liking [Woody Allen] after he started referring to > women as 'cunts' in his > movies. Have I no right to stop liking him for > whatever reason I deem > appropriate? a. I had no idea he had said that - which film(s)? b. the last Woody Allen movie I saw was the one with Scorpion (The Jade Scorpion? or The Curse of...? in the title (not the Scorpion King! ) and I thought it was boring and repetative and the same old Woody schtick. I realize I don't find it amusing anymore. Whether or not his relationships with increasingly younger women had some kind of subliminal effect on that, I don't know. All I know is I find him boring. After all these years his obsession with sex and women, mostly younger - way younger - women, you'd think he'd be over it by now. It occurred to me not too long ago that Woody's marrying his foster/step-daughter may have been his way of validating the fact that he really wasn't her father and he really wasn't related to her and that it's legal to do so. (Sort of nya-nya-inyerface kind of thing to show that the state has no problem with this, so why should you, world?) I still find it distasteful, but would/should either of them care about that? Naaah. I'm not sure what I find more distasteful - the fact that he (may have) abused the trust between Mia and him, between Mia and Soon-Yee (sp?) and the trust between Soon-Yee and him; or the fact that he's an ugly old man and he keeps going after these young women (and for some weird reason, he gets them too - is it his, um, charm (where?) or his money? I dunno. I'm sure Woody doesn't care.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:42:57 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Wagner, now woody Allen? NJC Mike said >>I stopped liking [Woody Allen] after he started referring to women as 'cunts' in his movies. Have I no right to stop liking him for whatever reason I deem appropriate?<< Catherine said >>I had no idea he had said that - which film(s)? Mike replies: He certainly said it in 'Deconstructing Harry', possibly in 'Celebrity' and I think in either 'Small Time Crooks' or 'The Curse of the Jade Scorpion'. I say 'certainly' but what I say isn't gospel, although I believe it to be true. I'll check the video when my girlfriend finishes her siesta. I have long been a great defender of Woody Allen's films but have been very disappointed recently (since 'Crimes and Misdemeanours', really) about the quality overall and I find it distasteful and unnecessary for him to use this kind of language, especially from one who previously weighed and crafted his words so carefully. If anyone out there can confirm or deny the accuracy of my comments I'd be happy to hear about it. Regarding Catherine's other comments on Woody's sex life and marital/parental behaviour I have no comment other than that I too find it distasteful but it's his business and none of mine. mike in barcelona NP Beth Orton. Concrete Sky. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:43:28 -0800 From: "RSM" Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits Joni not going out quietly echoes something she wrote years ago: You've got to shake your fists at lightning now You've got to roar like forest fire You've got to spread your light like blazes All across the sky They're going to aim the hoses on you Show 'em you won't expire Not till you burn up every passion Not even when you die Come on now You've got to try If you're feeling contempt Well then you tell it If you're tired of the silent night Jesus well then you yell it Sage advice then and perhaps some impetus for her now. Ron in L.A. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: "Susan Guzzi" ; "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" Cc: Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 7:17 PM Subject: RE: Article says Joni's calling it quits > lol susan! > > i am right there dreaming with you...i know joni has earned the right to > never write again after all of the remarkable songs she has given us..but oh > how the world needs to hear her voice in song right now...we need to hear > the voice of the person who many of us consider the greatest songwriter our > generation has ever known & we need to hear her voice in all of its > beautiful wisdom & maturity... > > since when did she ever let the biz dictate what she did! why should she let > it get to her now? how better to spit into that dark cesspool than to write > & record & release a record outside of the biz!!!! a simple one, voice & > instrument....new songs...it would be a sure fire hit... > > susan, i think we need to have a chat over lunch with joni...kakki, do you > think you could arrange this? lol... > > come to think of it...how many albums has she written when she goes on a > retreat? hmmm...blue! hmmm...for the roses! hmmm....hejira! > > susan >>In fact if Joni did walk away in this dramatic fashion and went off > and took to the refuge of the roads or went to Amsterdam or Rome or took a > walk a park a bridge a tree a river - well you get the picture ... perhaps > she could get inspired to write some new material about the twighlight of > her career or life. Then secretly hide away in a studio and record > everything her way and play with it and tweak it and ... Voila! The come > back kid with plenty of fanfare and press - OH Joni let me handle this for > you! It will be the biggest marketing scheme since New Coke! You may say I'm > a dreamer ...<<< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:09:54 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: njc Re: love is longsuffering >Colin stated>I find it odd that people who profess such a love of >Jesus can be so much the opposite of what he stood for. Franklin> not sure whether you're referring to Jeff or me. I do recognize that the opposite of love is hate. Having reread my last posting, I could not construe anything I wrote as "hate-filled". Biting obviously; (failed) "wit" perhaps. Some thinly veiled disgust at certain innuendos and comments scathingly scattered my way. But responses portraying hate? It seems to me I've seen far more vitriolic language and comments regarding such topics as "rappers", "scantily clad" celebrities, Wagner. Yet I presumed it was from passions born of frustration, conviction, opinion, even (dare I say) bordom, and have accepted them all in that light. It seems "Christians" or those struggling with that discipline are simply held up to greater scrutiny - and probably well should be. I'll confess I am a poor example of my own philosophy at times. I believe a statement in "From Walden Pond" by Mr. Henry David said something like "no philosopher has ever lived up to their philosophy, with the exception of Jesus". Who wouldn't, upon reading his biography, yearn to live, love and treat people (particularly "sinners" - all too often interpreted as those we don't "agree" with, by all of us I might kindly add) as he did: with acceptance, understanding, pity and yes - all in love. I also note that He never seemed to feel a need to justify or defend himself, as many of "us" do in our communications here. I feel my many needs and recognize that I still have a long road to travel - darn, and I'm strong-willed, selfish and lazy to boot! Yet the "train" keeps a rollin'. This too shall pass. Hopefully to higher ground. Perhaps I haven't been "here" long enough to have my own peculiar patterns of communication understood or "accepted". The Bible also states that love is long-suffering. I can only request that you bear with me as I stumble along, attempting to "perfect" the fine art of communication, conversation, rebuttal (not to mention "wit"). I see a lot of love expressed on this list as well as cantankerousness regarding varying topics. I generally understand and accept them both, and have witnessed others obviously exercising the same tolerance towards those whose "passion" can at times run amuck. I have seen few (read:no) thought patterns aimed at so personally attacking or unfairly targeting fellow threaders as those of a certain individual against me. Not that it has had me "crying in my vegetarian soup" mind you. Perhaps just a subconscious reason (read: excuse) to exercise my own judgmental (read nasty) little flaws. Something I'm at times successful in repressing - at others, it's just too tempting (cackle, cackle). But hatred? Hardly. I will concede that fighting "fire" with "fire" is a ridiculous proposition. And if that is what you were attempting to point out, I thank you for your insightful thoughts. They have made me reconsider my communicative repertoire. As to the implication of hate (being the opposite of love), I'm familiar enough with the feeling, having experienced it too times in my mistake-riddled life to assure you that it was by no means my intention to convey anything remotely resembling that soul-defiling feeling. Nonetheless, wit, sarcasm and riling rebuttals can be misconstrued. I therefore openly apologize for anything that seemed to "cross" the line between heated conversation, barb-returning, and mean-spiritedness or misinterpreted wit, and request understanding, patience and mercy from any fellow "Joni-lovers" here who've been offended. I have been through my share of pain, trouble in life (mostly self-induced) and find that healing can be a formidable task (perhaps others here can share THAT sentiment). I thank MY God, (we all seem to have One or another) for His patience in dealing with me, and power in helping me. He more often than not does it through others, so I have taken a couple of the initial reactions to heart. Thank you for the kind, and presumably "loving" input! I did find an interesting quote on love, that I might venture to share: "Love is dwelt upon as the chief attribute of God; yet it is degraded into a weak sentimentalism, making little distinction between good and evil." Call me old-fashioned, but I grasp the intentions of the author here. >Kasey stated regarding his above insight: Perfectly said Colin! I >have John, and you in my prayers. To even think the one you love >is ill is heart wrenching. I'm glad it wasn't anything worse. Franklin> Boy, a lot of people say things "perfectly" (to each other) on this list! Have you ever noticed that? (lol, meant as gentle wit - failed or not). I too am praying for you and your loved one Colin (hope you don't mind). I also hope everything is much better as I write this. I sympathize with the concern, pain fear and grief you have just had (perhaps still are) to experience. I sincerely wish all is WELL with the two of you! I'll bid you momentary adieu, and await the next potential thrashing rebuttal from my new pen pal. In the meantime, I will refrain, as I thus far have, from misconstruing his comments, callousness, inexplicable intentions and wit (he does display some worthy wit - biting or otherwise) - as hatred. As witnessed on previous posts, I like some participants here on other topics have a hard time "letting it go" sometimes. That is a good virtue to practice, and as we all know "practice makes "'perfect'"(don't know who to attribute that too - - probably ol' Ben (the Christian) Franklin - just a guess). Perhaps there's hope for ALL of us after all. (wink, smile) Franklin NP The Animals "Please Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood" ;) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:58:58 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: EW Review of Travelogue - A-! From this week's Entertainment Weekly: JONI MITCHELL - Travelogue (Nonesuch) It seemed like a bad idea at the time, Mitchell dragging 22 catalog songs into the orchestra pit, a conceit usually favored by artistes like the Moody Blues. But the miracle is that Vince Mendoza's symphonic arrangements sometimes place Mitchell's alto in even more intimate climes than the scaled-back settings that surrounded her seminal soprano. (Bonus points for juxtaposing "Slouching Toward Bethlehem" with the trudge to "Woodstock".) And her overall grade: an A-! (A grade not often bestowed on new releases by the EW reviewers.) Jenny Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:13:03 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: njc Re: love is longsuffering Heloo Franklin-first of all, I thank you for your prayers. Of course I don't mind! I have no trouble in undrstanding that we all view God differently and I don't demonise those that think differently. I do howver speak up when i can when I see abuse of any kind going on including wrong thinking(like stating opinion/feeling as fact-to me that is abuse)However, I have little time for those who judge others and push their way of thinking as the only way. As for the rest of your post, it was the first post I have read from you where you have not used words in a patronizing, insulting and belittling way. I did not mean to imply you are hate filled just that I don't think jesus would respond in disrespectful ways. I realise of course that as none of those mails were aimed at me, it is none of my business -sort of! I just don;t like to see that sort of thing. I grant you, I may have been biased and not seen so clearly the barbs form the other writers. I felt they were just in response to yours. None of us is perfect, and your quote is quite right. i certainly fail in my spiritual aspirations many times a day! I was impressed by this response of yours.It was not what i expected at all! So i was gladly proved wrong. Being able to see where we may be going wrong is great gift, seriously. Without it I'd have sunk a long time ago. No it doesn't make me better than or perfect-it just enables me to live with me. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:14:49 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Wagner NJC Wally Kairuz wrote: > yes, you may dislike whomever you deem fit. thank you Wally! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:18:37 +0000 From: colin Subject: men!!!NJC John is still rough, habving to use the inahler but better than in the early hours. Taking his pills as prescribed. BUT he thinks he going to work on monday!!!! What is it with men(genraliasation here?) WHY cannot they just be ill? WHY is getting them to a dr like trying to get them to jump off evrest? WHY dot hey have to so fucking stupid and play the hero 'oh I'm all right' when it is quite clear to anyone with a rain that they are not! A chest infection to the point of near suffocation is NOT minor and will not be better by Mondy. I could kill him! bw colin I thank every one for their good wishes. i was pleasantly surprised at all the repsonses. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:42:03 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re: njc Re: love is longsuffering >Bless your heart Colin. I've considered you a gentle, understanding >soul since I first started reading/posting on this special JM site. >I didn't take what you said in any personal way (other than a gentle >rebuke, as I've recognized you through your writings/comments to be >consistently gentle - a wonderful attribute, BTY). > >Colin> I grant you, I may have been biased and not seen so clearly >the barbs form the other writers. I felt they were just in response >to yours. Franklin> To clarify, I wasn't necessarily referring to "barbs" aimed at "me" from other writers, but the fact that there are other "barbs" flying around the site among other writer's towards each other's views that have possibly received "less" attention. That's all. Perhaps some of those rancorous discussions are less "visible" because the correspondents are more acquainted with each other, and others subconsciously/consciously recognize and accept that. As I stated, even I didn't see some of the more argued/debated topics as particularly anything more than heated, impassioned discussion between friends and/or associates here. >Colin>None of us is perfect, and your quote is quite right. i >certainly fail in my spiritual aspirations many times a day! Franklin> There is comfort and hope in the recognition that there are others with aspirations, as well as daily struggles in attaining to them. I, for one, can feel quite alienated and isolated sometimes thinking twisted thoughts that I'm alone there. The old, "why does everybody else seem so normal but me" syndrome. - possibly because they are???, comparatively speaking. (LOL) Sometimes the truth hurts, but if allowed, it almost always helps/heals. >Colin> I was impressed by this response of yours.It was not what i expected at >all! So i was gladly proved wrong. Being able to see where we may be >going wrong is great gift, seriously. Without it I'd have sunk a long >time ago. No it doesn't make me better than or perfect-it just enables me >to live with me. Franklin> Encouraging words from a dear soul indeed. Thank you for your concern and courtesy in expressing yourself. You're a good model for many to follow in the "heat of the fray" that sometimes manifests itself here. I encourage you to continue to remark concerning your perceptions of "defects" I might spontaneously (that's sometimes part of the problem) manifest from time to time. I regard your opinions and observations as intelligent, thoughtful, more often than not accurate, and worthwhile. Thank you for taking the time for someone like me. Heartfelt reproof and counsel (preferably your gentle variety, but any form is acceptable) are always appreciated. Still hoping all is well over there. Please give Travis (is that your SO's name - sorry I forgot - my sincere wishes for his speedy recovery). bwb Franklin NP Marvin Gaye's Greatest Hits >bw >colin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:53:43 -0000 From: "William" Subject: Joni photos Moni, Thanks everso for posting the sites for the Joni photos. How well and good she looks compared to when I last saw her in the interview footage on that 'Hippies' documentary some months back. When I saw the third photo I was whisked back to the poster I used to have of Joni performing at The Last Waltz. As sophisticated as ever. Is that Issey? Thanks again. WtS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:05:15 -0500 From: dsk Subject: love etc. [was love is longsuffering] NJC Franklin Shea wrote: > > I do recognize that the opposite of love is hate. Is it? I've always thought of indifference as the opposite of love. At least with hate there's still some emotional involvement. Not so with indifference. Franklin, I don't know where you got the idea that insulting remarks are the normal way of writing here, unless it's the banter between the Bobs and, to a newcomer, I guess that could look like serious stuff. It's not. It's jesting and jousting between long-time friends, and I find the "competition" affectionate and very funny, rude though it may seem sometimes. People sometimes get into heated arguments here about ideas, but generally try to avoid personal insults, and for the most part are successful in doing that. Aiming for such respect is one of the great things about this list, along with learning about new music and knowing months in advance if there's even a hint of an upcoming Joni concert. That's especially important to me since I signed on to make sure I'd never miss a concert again, as I did in the 80s. This list experience has turned out to be much more than that. Debra Shea P.S. Is everyone saving their pennies for the Joni tour Moni mentioned? Seeing her this time is going to be expensive... NP: Bruce Cockburn's "Dart to the Heart". Took me a long time and lots of mentions of Cockburn on this list before I was willing to give his music a try, and am glad I finally did. This is a wonderful cd. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:15:53 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Wagner NJC happy to oblige, colin! :-) w - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de colin Enviado el: Sabado, 16 de Noviembre de 2002 03:15 p.m. Para: Wally Kairuz CC: mike pritchard; list Asunto: Re: Wagner NJC Wally Kairuz wrote: > yes, you may dislike whomever you deem fit. thank you Wally! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 17:19:04 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: men!!!NJC i know what you mean. i have to have tumors hanging all over my body for me to decide that maybe i should see a doctor. i am so happy that john is better or at least that he saw a doctor. love, wally ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:19:20 -0500 From: nyroman Subject: Re: Reba, njc I've always liked Reba a lot and my recommendation for one of her recordings I think is great is "For My Broken Heart." If anyone is familiar with it please chime in, but the title song and "Is There Life Out There" both knock me out. Great songs. Gary twoshoes@sasktel.net wrote: > > > From: CoyoteRick@aol.com > > Subject: Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II > > > I was taken with Reba's performance as well. Never a fan, her stage presence > > and voice surprised me. If anyone has recommendations for a Reba LP that is > > just a little bit country, let me know. > > Let me know, too. > I am not a big country music fan, though some of it is great stuff, because > I find a lot of the songs and singers sound too alike. Once I said to my > sister, who sang in a country dance band, that I wasn't impressed by Reba -- > that 'anyone' could do what she does (ha! since my days with a musical > theatre group I know that it only 'looks' easy; singing and performing well > are not easy at all). Then one morning I heard her on the radio belting out > a blues tune that knocked my socks off -- whoa! that's Reba? I gasped -- and > I've seen Ms. Macintyre in a new light ever since. > > If anyone happens to know what album contains some bluesy stuff, please let > me know and I'll finally go out and buy one of Reba's. > > Kate du Nord ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:07:18 -0800 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: Travelogue Review in EW Entertainment Weekly has a review of Travelogue which reads: "Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, (Nonesuch) It seemed like a bad idea at the time, Mitchell dragging 22 catalog songs into the orchestra pit, a conceit usually favored by artistes like the Moody Blues. But the miracle is that Vince Mendoza's symphonic arrangements sometimes place Mitchell's alto in even more intimate climes than the scaled-back settings that surrounded her seminal soprano. (Bonus points for juxtaposing "Slouching Toward Bethlehem" with the trudge to "Woodstock.") A - " This on a page of 7 other reviews, none rising above a grade of B+. Our Joan goes to the head of the class again! (And please tell me why, when BSN came out, it was, 'oh, why isn't she doing her material?' and now that she is doing her material, she's "conceited.") Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:14:35 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: USA Today article on "Travelogue" Shortly after the recording dates in London in November 2001, Joni referred to her new project as "Swan Song". When the USA Today article came out in September 2002, the project was called "A Travelogue" and was slated to be released on Reprise. It's now called "Travelogue" on Nonesuch Records. Their website lists only one edition, catalog #79817. While I could not save the USA Today web page directly, I did select, copy the text, and clean it up. Here it is in its entirety. USA Today - --------- September 05, 2002 - --------- JONI MITCHELL ORCHESTRATES RETROSPECTIVE - --------- By Edna Gundersen - --------- Singer/songwriter Joni Mitchell toured her past, journeyed into a new genre and trekked across the ocean for A Travelogue, her long-awaited collaboration with the London Symphony Orchestra. The two-CD set, due Nov. 19 on Reprise, offers 23 of her compositions, freshly arranged by Vince Mendoza. Mitchell, who produced the retrospective with ex-hubby and longtime collaborator Larry Klein, recorded the songs at George Martin's Air Lyndhurst Studio in London. Tunes transformed from pop simplicity to classical grandeur include Woodstock, Amelia, Chinese Cafi, Flat Tire, For the Roses, God Must Be a Boogie Man, Sex Kills, Be Cool, Just Like This Train, The Last Time I Saw Richard and Circle Game. Mitchell designed the packaging, which features examples of her paintings, a book and extensive liner notes. Making appearances are Herbie Hancock, Billy Preston and Wayne Shorter. The recording sessions are chronicled in a documentary by Allison Anders (Mi Vida Loca, Gas Food Lodging), tentatively due in January. In addition, PBS will air an American Masters profile of Mitchell in March. - --------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:29:00 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re: NJC love etc. [was love is longsuffering] NJC Debra comments: >Franklin Shea wrote: I do recognize that the opposite of love is hate. > >Debra> Is it? I've always thought of indifference as the opposite of love. At >least with hate there's still some emotional involvement. Not so >with indifference. Franklin> You have a very provocative point there. In the sense that true love is healing, uplifting, spiritually enchanting in its nature - - I still think of hate as being the polar opposite: harming, down-trodding, and spiritually demoralizing/suffocating (ironically - for one who hates as well as the hated). But indifference is certainly a "first cousin" in there somewhere. I realize that some hate is often just a "fractured" relative of love in the sense that they both require the energy implicit in emotional commitment. Indifference, on the other hand, is in many respects, the ultimate abandonment; sort of the social/emotional equivalent to death. I have personally experienced situations where I preferred being "hated" by someone I cared about rather than emotionally ignored (strange but true). Yet again, I'd prefer indifference to the type of hatred that produces violence (physical, emotional, spiritual or otherwise). In my end analysis they can both be very brutal and life-deflating/defeating. >Debra>Franklin, I don't know where you got the idea that insulting remarks are >the normal way of writing here, unless it's the banter between the Bobs >and, to a newcomer, I guess that could look like serious stuff. It's >not. It's jesting and jousting between long-time friends, and I find the >"competition" affectionate and very funny, rude though it may seem sometimes. Franklin> I did not intend to portray the "insulting remarks" comment as normal on this site, and apologize if it came out that way. Sometimes though, banter can be misconstrued as "insulting remarks" and vice versa. It certainly helps to know the participants and the context... I also agree that countering innuendos and insulting remarks with similar ammunition simply escalates confrontation. Some lessons are only learned the hard way, for me anyway. >Debra> People sometimes get into heated arguments here about ideas, but >generally try to avoid personal insults, and for the most part are >successful in doing that. Aiming for such respect is one of the great >things about this list, along with learning about new music and knowing >months in advance if there's even a hint of an upcoming Joni concert. >That's especially important to me since I signed on to make sure I'd >never miss a concert again, as I did in the 80s. This list experience >has turned out to be much more than that. Franklin> I want to more consistently succeed at that also. Most of the people here seem like such life-affirming, interesting, wonderful folk. Thank you for your fine thoughts. I appreciated them. Where are you from, if I might inquire? Perhaps (no cringing now) we are related. Is Shea your maiden name or married? Do you know which county in Ireland your Shea's came from? Mine hail from Kilkenny. There are a lot of Shea's in Iowa, Nebraska, particularly the Chicago area... all over no doubt. BTY - you're awfully polite for Irish... lol I'm going to give that "Dark to the Heart" a listen after the sincere, enthusiastic recommendation... thanks. I'll weigh in after a few listens. Blessings be to thee Franklin NP Eric Clapton - "August" (very nearly "no-filler" - smile) > >Debra Shea > >P.S. Is everyone saving their pennies for the Joni tour Moni mentioned? >Seeing her this time is going to be expensive... > >NP: Bruce Cockburn's "Dart to the Heart". Took me a long time and lots >of mentions of Cockburn on this list before I was willing to give his >music a try, and am glad I finally did. This is a wonderful cd. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:34:11 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: men!!!NJC one good thing-he has nothad a cigarette since last evening. I write this as I am puffing away on mine.... Wally Kairuz wrote: > i know what you mean. i have to have tumors hanging all over my body for me > to decide that maybe i should see a doctor. > i am so happy that john is better or at least that he saw a doctor. > love, > wally ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:43:57 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: njc Re: love is longsuffering > Franklin> There is comfort and hope in the recognition that there are > others with aspirations, as well as daily struggles in attaining to > them. I, for one, can feel quite alienated and isolated sometimes > thinking twisted thoughts that I'm alone there. The old, "why does > everybody else seem so normal but me" syndrome. - possibly because > they are???, comparatively speaking. (LOL) Sometimes the truth hurts, > but if allowed, it almost always helps/heals. Oh dear me. i certainly know this feeling. i spent most of my life thinking just that-that evryone else was normal and I wasn;t. What i didn;t know was they were bullshitting! > > > . > > I encourage you to continue to remark > concerning your perceptions of "defects" I might spontaneously > (that's sometimes part of the problem) manifest from time to time. well..um I have my own defects to deal with but if something pisses me off I might mention it!;-) > Thank you for taking > the time for someone like me. someone like you? what another human being struggling thru like the rest of us? > > Still hoping all is well over there. Please give Travis (is that your > SO's name - sorry I forgot - my sincere wishes for his speedy > recovery). John is not well but not as ill as in the early hours. that was really scary. how about this for weird: he is 55 yrs old. This is his first evr illness. Yes, the first. never been sick ever, cept for a cold. no mumps, measels, chicken pox-nothing. > > > bwb > Franklin > NP Marvin Gaye's Greatest Hits > > >bw > >colin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:48:58 +0000 From: colin Subject: Haagen Daz IncidentNJC Someone wrote and asked me what i was referring to with the Haagen Daz incident so although I wrote it here years ago, I shall do so again: UJohn and I had come back from the supermarket and put the shopping away. we were arguing. I had a plastic carrier bag in my hand and i threw it at him in mock temper. Anyway, unbeknowns to me, it had a pot of HD in it. It hit him in the forehead and knocked him to the floor, dazed. Talk about being petrified! I rushed him to hosptial and by the time we got there, a huge black bruise and developed right in his forehead. He was examined and scanned and given the all clear but the staff fell about when I told them what had happened. John was not angry with me at all but annoyed that i had told the truth to the staff. He thought I would get charged or something. I can see it as funny but it wasn;t at the time. Now I make sure if I throw something at him, it is soft! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:55:07 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: love etc. [was love is longsuffering] NJC dsk wrote: > Franklin Shea wrote: > > > > I do recognize that the opposite of love is hate. > > Is it? I've always thought of indifference as the opposite of love. At > least with hate there's still some emotional involvement. Not so with indifference. > I see where you are both coming from with this. I have another take on it. i think the opposite of love is fear. Fear is the root of all things negative, I feel. fear of daeth, fear of rejection, of not being good enough, of poverty, of not having enough, of being alone, of being unloved, of sickness. fear prevents love being given and accepted. Fear lies at the root of dogma, absolutism, the 'i am always right syndrome', racism, sexism, homophobia, cruelty, child abuse, war, greed, the list is endless. Hatred is fear unrecognized and out of control. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:11:44 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Pazfest I'm running behind the time but I finally got the Pazfest discs. What a treat - - thanks to Michael and all. This is a MUST HAVE. T'log is almost here - I haven't heard a bit yet. Cannot wait. peace, david ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #496 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)