From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #489 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, November 14 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 489 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: November 14 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] re: thinking of women ["Marian Russell " ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #485 - home studio? ["kakki" ] Swingin' Travelogue ["Laurent Olszer" ] RE: Swingin' Travelogue ["Kate Bennett" ] Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II ["kakki" ] mikes paper njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Dawntreader from Travelogue [FredNow@aol.com] Information, please ... [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Information, please ... ["kakki" ] Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits [KJHSF@aol.com] Crritics ... [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Information, please ... [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II ["hell" ] Re: Information, please ... ["kakki" ] Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II ["kakki" ] Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II ["hell" ] Re: Thinking of women NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II ["kakki" ] Re: Thinking of women NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Information, please ... ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Speaking about bizarre links... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Dawntreader from Travelogue [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Oldies but goodies (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] bizarre "Joni and Christ" article [Deb Messling ] Re: a good run njc ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II [CoyoteRick@aol.com] Re: Thinking of women NJC [Yael Harlap ] Re: T'log promotion ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] More Joni interview... [Steve Dulson ] Coyote Rick (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: More Joni interview... ["Moni Kellermann" ] Jungle Line Live [Susan McNamara ] Re: Evian takes us down the memory trail (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Jungle Line Live [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Fw: JoniFest 2002 Pictures! My last gasp! njc, I suppose ["kasey s] Re: Thinking of women NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Cookbook [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Cookbook ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Travelogue ["Mick Mick" ] re: thinking of women and Joni ["blonde in the bleachers" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 03:04:21 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 14 1993: Joni received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Saskatchewan Recording Industry Association. The presentation was held in front of about 150 people at the Willows Golf Resort in Saskatoon. After the presentation Joni gave an hour long interview and performed a new song called 'The Magdalene Laundries" that she said she planned to record as a duet with Sinead O'Connor. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=743 http://www.jonimitchell.com/jonihome.html#TheBio 1994: Joni was in London, England for a solo showcase for the media at a townhouse off Gloucester Road in South Kensington. Before the event, Joni was interviewed and performed two songs for the BBC series "The Late Show." She then went on stage and performed for more than an hour in front of 200 media and record company people. An amazing footnote is that Joni didn't smoke a single cigarette for the duration of her show! Mike Quinn posted to the JMDL: I have a press cutting from The Independent describing [this event] which Joni played at 41 Queensgate Terrace in Kensington, UK. According to the piece she played alone for an hour, the set consisting of 11 songs, 4 from TI and some that were then unrecorded (such as Face Lift). She started with Refuge from the Roads and finished with Just like this Train. She talked about Saskatoon, how she came to write The Magdalene Laundries and about Dave Crosby who was very ill at the time. The audience "became more appreciative" the longer she played. "No lighted matches and stomping feet but prolonged, insistent clapping at the end. And an encore". More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/LondonShowcase94.html - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 03:16:51 -0500 From: "Marian Russell " Subject: re: thinking of women Very nice post, Yael - thank you for speaking up! Marian On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:16:20 -0500 Yael Harlap wrote: >and i just want to suggest that there are better >ways to critique britney/madonna/christina a - >both their music and their marketing - than >labeling them as "sluts" and "whores" and "bimbos". >my general rule is that if a disparaging word is >gendered (ie: only is ever used to describe people >of one gender), i avoid using it. it is >disrespectful to women.... ie: bimbo=assumption that >women who use their sexuality are dumb and "easy"; >"whore" and "slut" = promiscuous behavior is seen >as negative in women which wouldn't necessarily be >a problem except that it is lauded in men - aren't >men who have lots of partners "studs"? there's a >double standard for you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:38:02 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #485 - home studio? She dismantled the music studio and installed the art (painting) studio ;-) Kakki > Well lady of the canyon..your words make me feel better.. (yeah..but she > has that studio in her home..she might never venture out > again..like..like..NORMA... Could not resist..) > > > I think I remember reading that Joni dismantled and sold off the in-home > studio. Maybe one our insiders knows for sure... > > Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:38:56 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Swingin' Travelogue > From: "Kate Bennett" > Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars > > is an orchestra supposed to swing? (rhetorical question) > I personally tend to suscribe to Duke Ellington's famous theory: "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing". Also, could anybody please clarify this Travelogue limited edition business? Is it available in the UK only for now, as it seems only UK members mentioned it? If so, what is the website to order it? Thanks Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:38:44 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Swingin' Travelogue sure but isn't that for a jazz band? >>I personally tend to suscribe to Duke Ellington's famous theory: "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing".<< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:04:05 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II Just got back from the Stormy Weather benefit. Met up with some of the gang for dinner and then we headed over to Wiltern. This time around Henley decided to have a long private VIP dinner inside the theater before the show which lasted almost two hours past the start time of 8:00 p.m. People were massing at the few doors and the heat and lack of air was enough to make you pass out. Rick, Brad and I finally made our way outside for air as an increasingly fed up crowd were starting to yell "let us in, let us in!" Geez. Not good. Finally we were let in. This time around the women mostly performed contemporary songs with just a few old standards here and there. My set list is incomplete. The performers were Michelle Branch, Susan Tedeschi (awesome and one of her songs was Joni's "River"), Deborah Fox, Paula Cole ("So Ordinary" and Tom Waits "The House Where Nobody Lives"), Norah Jones (wonderful), Trisha Yearwood (one of the best last time and this - "St. Cloud, Minnesota" and "The Man That Got Away"), Sheryl Crow ("Run Baby Run" and "Goodbye"), Reba McIntyre ("I Got Lost in His Arms"), Stevie Nicks (OMG - "Landslide" - the BEST of the night and "Sunday Kind of Love") and for the finale JONI doing "Woodstock", "What's A Sweetheart Like You Doing in a Dump Like This?" (not kidding - is this a Waits or Newman song?? and then a big surprise "Chinese Cafe". She looked stunning in a long gun metal grey with dark fuschia trim crinkle-pleated Miyake kimono-style gown (for those who enjoy the fashion report ;-) Henley did refer to her "takes" on the music biz as he introduced her. As in '98 they had the "El Nino Orchestra" back and it was filled with many of Joni's best boys - including Peter Erskine on drums, Bob Sheppard, incredibly channeling Wayne Shorter on sax and flute, Ralph (Joni's concertmaster on the 2000 BSN tour) on first violin, Vince Mendoza conducting and Larry Klein musically directing. We didn't see any "stars" other than a haggard looking Nick Nolte getting into his car after the show ;-) All the big shots were there, though, somewhere at their VIP tables ;-) Phyliss and Bob were going to the VIP reception after the show, so hopefully she can fill us in on more manana. She was going to try to sneak the rest of us in but we had heat prostration at that point LOL. Henley made some remark about being back in two years - hope next time he starts his private gala at 3 in the afternoon, though! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:41:18 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: mikes paper njc looking but can't seem to find the link for mike in barcelona's paper...does anyone still have this? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:12:02 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Dawntreader from Travelogue Lindsay Moon writes: >I just listened to "Dawntreader" from Travelogue, and man! what a >knockout! You could knock me over with a feather! It seemed completely >timeless to me, suspended in that perfect place in art that just grabs >you from any point in time. She could have written it yesterday. I agree it's a knockout, but, sadly, Joni couldn't have written this yesterday. To these heretic ears, she hasn't written anything as beautifully perfect (or as perfectly beautiful) as Dawntreader in a long, long time. And I often wonder if that's one reason she's been revisiting of late. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:15:14 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Information, please ... I'm still wondering about varying editions (special edition) of Travelogue ... are there any? Or just the one? Can anyone please give me the definitive poop? Thanks in advance, Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:35:32 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Information, please ... I'm copying Laurent on this, too, because it seems like the question keeps getting asked but not answered. I don't think there has been any information that there will be a special edition. Some of us joked about it awhile back (I pondered a special edition coming in a little suitcase with picture postcard packaging) but there have been no indications of one. There was some description of the two CD set coming with "paintings" and a "booklet" inside, though. The copies I have are total "bootlegs" without packaging. I'm looking forward to my official copy in a few days. Kakki > I'm still wondering about varying editions (special edition) of Travelogue > ... are there any? Or just the one? Can anyone please give me the definitive > poop? > > Thanks in advance, > Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:35:32 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits In a message dated 11/14/2002 2:29:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > thanks ken, i wondered if joni had said anything about either aimee or > jonatha...i think her quote is a compliment? > Yes, Joni was complimenting Aimee in this interview. The reporter brought up Aimee as an example of intelligent songwriting as far as the latest generation of girls is concerned. Joni remarked that Aimee was a good choice before continuing with the bit about her not being afraid to introduce the theme of anxiety in relationships in her lyrics. ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:35:43 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Crritics ... >>The critics should be able to be honest. I think it's the pinnacle of hubris for a critic to confuse his own personal taste for reasoned critical assessment ... they are two very separate judgments and need to be kept distinct, especially when the two don't intersect, and especially by critics. The gig is this: to try to understand what the artist's intent is, determine whether or not the artist has realized this intent and how well or not. In other words, Joni may not be someone's cup of tea, but to then extrapolate and say "Therefore, she's crap" is arrogant and inherently uncritical. Further, although everyone has a right to their opinion it doesn't follow that everyone's opinion is right. Beyond that, in Samuel Beckett's masterpiece "Waiting For Godot," the two main characters, Vladimir ("Didi") and Estragon ("Gogo"), engage in a name-calling contest which is won by Estragon who tops the vituperation with the most horrible name he can spit out: >V: Moron! > >E: Vermin! > >V: Abortion! > >E: Morpion! > >V: Sewer-rat! > >E: Curate! > >V: Cretin! > >E: (with finality) Crritic! > >V: Oh! > >(He wilts, vanquished, and turns away.) Of course, there are occasional exceptions to the rule, the rare critic who understands that he is not an arbiter of taste. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:41:32 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Information, please ... In a message dated 11/14/02 3:28:32 AM, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: >Some of us joked about it >awhile back (I pondered a special edition coming in a little suitcase with >picture postcard packaging) Thanks, Kakki. I'm thinking maybe a little suitcase with a map and a compass, and some cheese, crackers, and pemmican. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:43:28 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II Kakki wrote: > Stevie Nicks > (OMG - "Landslide" - the BEST of the night and "Sunday Kind of Love") and > for the finale JONI doing "Woodstock", "What's A Sweetheart Like You Doing > in a Dump Like This?" (not kidding - is this a Waits or Newman song?? and > then a big surprise "Chinese Cafe". She looked stunning in a long gun metal > grey with dark fuschia trim crinkle-pleated Miyake kimono-style gown (for > those who enjoy the fashion report ;-) Henley did refer to her "takes" on > the music biz as he introduced her. Stevie AND Joni in the same night?! Once again, I'm jealous as hell! But it sounds like you saw a great show, despite the wait and the heat. As far the song Joni did, are you talking about Bob Dylan's song "Sweetheart Like You" from the album Infidels (I can post the lyrics if you want)? I love that song, and I can imagine Joni doing a GREAT job with it! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:54:39 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Information, please ... LOL, Fred! > I'm thinking maybe a little suitcase with a map and a compass, and some > cheese, crackers, and pemmican. An an optional pack of American Spirits ciggies ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:59:15 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II Hell and all Stevie fans - Her Landslide alone was worth the price of admission. I've never been a huge fan, but this tonight was utterly astounding. The way the orchestra played with it (with total Wayne Shorter treatment coming from Bob Sheppard) I swear it sounded like a song off Travelogue! Unforgetable. At the show in '98 Stevie got more applause than Joni, but this time Joni got more! Tons of people screaming out "we love you, Joni, we love you!!" Had to make her feel good. And I think you may be right about it being a Dylan song - I thought Dylan at first, too, but Joni kind of did it in a Waits style! She said it was one of her favorite songs. Would love to see the lyrics posted. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:04:11 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II Kakki wrote: > Her Landslide alone was worth the price of admission. I've never been a > huge fan, but this tonight was utterly astounding. The way the orchestra > played with it (with total Wayne Shorter treatment coming from Bob Sheppard) > I swear it sounded like a song off Travelogue! Unforgetable. At the show in > '98 Stevie got more applause than Joni, but this time Joni got more! Tons > of people screaming out "we love you, Joni, we love you!!" Had to make her > feel good. I'm glad Joni got a good reaction from the crowd - maybe that will make her rethink that whole "final recording" thing. Although I'll believe that when I see it - or not see it, I should say! Landslide has always been one of my favourite Stevie songs, and every performance I've heard or seen has a lot of emotion involved. Fleetwood Mac's "The Dance" is another superb performance and the chemistry between Stevie and Lindsay Buckingham is incredible. I can only imagine how it sounds with a full orchestra! > And I think you may be right about it being a Dylan song - I thought Dylan > at first, too, but Joni kind of did it in a Waits style! She said it was > one of her favorite songs. Would love to see the lyrics posted. No problem: Sweetheart Like You - Bob Dylan Well, the pressure's down, the boss ain't here, He gone North, he ain't around, They say that vanity got the best of him But he sure left here after sundown. By the way, that's a cute hat, And that smile's so hard to resist But what's a sweetheart like you doin' in a dump like this? You know, I once knew a woman who looked like you, She wanted a whole man, not just a half, She used to call me sweet daddy when I was only a child, You kind of remind me of her when you laugh. In order to deal in this game, got to make the queen disappear, It's done with a flick of the wrist. What's a sweetheart like you doin' in a dump like this? You know, a woman like you should be at home, That's where you belong, Watching out for someone who loves you true Who would never do you wrong. Just how much abuse will you be able to take? Well, there's no way to tell by that first kiss. What's a sweetheart like you doin' in a dump like this? You know you can make a name for yourself, You can hear them tires squeal, You can be known as the most beautiful woman Who ever crawled across cut glass to make a deal. You know, news of you has come down the line Even before ya came in the door. They say in your father's house, there's many mansions Each one of them got a fireproof floor. Snap out of it, baby, people are jealous of you, They smile to your face, but behind your back they hiss. What's a sweetheart like you doin' in a dump like this? Got to be an important person to be in here, honey, Got to have done some evil deed, Got to have your own harem when you come in the door, Got to play your harp until your lips bleed. They say that patriotism is the last refuge To which a scoundrel clings. Steal a little and they throw you in jail, Steal a lot and they make you king. There's only one step down from here, baby, It's called the land of permanent bliss. What's a sweetheart like you doin' in a dump like this? (Note to self: get more Dylan on CD!) Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:10:53 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: Thinking of women NJC My mail in response to two pieces from yesterday's digest #447 (by blondeinthebleachers@hotmail.com and SMC1254@aol.com) was entitled 'slut whore bimbo' but luckily I read 448 before hitting the send button. And there I see a post from Yael which said what I was going to say in a much better way so now I won't bother. Thanks Yael for reminding us that we, as a group and as individuals, still have a long way to go as far as gender bias is concerned. MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were as equally untalented as Cristina and Madonna but nobody criticised them in terms of their gender. When are we going to get over this desire to insult people in this way when we are unhappy with something unrelated to their gender, i.e. their music. mike in barcelona NP Tete Montoliu  Giant Steps - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:26:03 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II Thanks, Hell - that is the song. Reading the lyrics, it almost sounds like he could have written it about Joni. Or I wonder if she likes it because she identifies with it? >> What's a sweetheart like you doin' in a dump like this? Maybe I've been reading too many of the Joni against the music biz "rants" but I can see the metaphor here. ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:41:13 -0500 From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Thinking of women NJC << MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were as equally untalented as Cristina and Madonna but nobody criticised them in terms of their gender. >> I seem to be becoming Madonna's temporary unofficial spokesman here, but Mike, PUR-LEASE! Madonna does not deserve to be lumped in with those other three names, not by a long chalk. If nothing else, her longevity sets her apart. I've already made my case about the worth of some of her records, so I won't go through that again... Interestingly, while you are right that Hammer and Vanilla Ice were not criticised for being men, Vanilla Ice WAS heavily slated because of his colour. I don't know what this tells us (I'll probably think of a grand theory soon enough :-) Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:58:22 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: Information, please ... > I'm copying Laurent on this, too, because it seems like the question keeps > getting asked but not answered. I don't think there has been any > information that there will be a special edition. Some of us joked about it > awhile back (I pondered a special edition coming in a little suitcase with > picture postcard packaging) but there have been no indications of one. > There was some description of the two CD set coming with "paintings" and a > "booklet" inside, though. The copies I have are total "bootlegs" without > packaging. I'm looking forward to my official copy in a few days. > > Kakki > Hi Kakki, There was a UK member who said she pre-ordered hers with a CD rom of Joni's paintings. Didn't sound like she was joking at all. PS: How was yesterday's show? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:54:15 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Speaking about bizarre links... In a message dated Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:21:14 +0100, christi@dsr.kvl.dk writes: > And last my wish for the future... > > Songs To Aging Joni Come Brilliant! This is one I'd really like to "hear"! :~) Bob NP: Joni, "Woodstock" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:00:12 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Dawntreader from Travelogue In a message dated 11/14/2002 12:35:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, moonlj@san.rr.com writes: > It seemed completely > timeless to me, suspended in that perfect place in art that > just grabs you > from any point in time. You are right on, Lindsay...Dawntreader is a perfect example, maybe THE best example on T of a song that grows and truly gets new life from the orchestral embellishments. And as to this disc "swinging", they swing the hell out of You Dream Flat Tires! Wish they had given a couple of others this same treatment. 5 days away! :~) Bob NP: Joni, Slouching ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:12:56 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Oldies but goodies (NJC) Almost a week ago, Terry said: <> And Mark said: <> OK, OK!!!!!!! I admit it.......I'm older than dirt, and been around here......well......long enough to have been around when Meriwether was around, but also long enough to forget everything, and read posts DAYS after they are posted. Everyone happy now? ;-) Hugs, Ashara {who is waiting.....waiting.....waiting for Les to finish a few Jonifest things so the Fest can be announced!} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:21:30 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: bizarre "Joni and Christ" article I looked again at the article analyzing BSN as a "stormy love affair with Christ" and saw that it was allegedly written by Michael Moriarity, the actor of "Holocaust" and "Law and Order" fame. There is no reason to assume that anything on this page is reliable, so who knows if he really wrote it. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/02 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:18:33 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: a good run njc Frank Zappa and the MOthers too have three in a row that are just knockouts: Burnt Weenie Sandwhich, 1969 Hot Rats, 1969 Weasels Ripped My Flesh, 1970 and i'd say the first three Elvis Costello Records, Dylan: Bringing it Back home, 1965 Highway 61 Revisited, 1965 Blonde on Blonde, 1966 >From: "Kate Bennett" >Reply-To: "Kate Bennett" >To: >Subject: a good run njc >Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:07:20 -0800 > >other artists with several good albums in a row- bob marley, jackson >browne, >fleetwood mac > >******************************************** >Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com >Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs >Over the Moon- >"bringing the melancholy world of twilight >to life almost like magic" All Music Guide >******************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:23:50 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II You mean, Joni did a Dylan Cover, Sweetheart like you? That would be great if that is true. Sounds like a great concert, Kakki. BLair >From: "kakki" >Reply-To: "kakki" >To: >CC: >Subject: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II >Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:04:05 -0800 > >Just got back from the Stormy Weather benefit. Met up with some of the gang >for dinner and then we headed over to Wiltern. This time around Henley >decided to have a long private VIP dinner inside the theater before the >show >which lasted almost two hours past the start time of 8:00 p.m. People were >massing at the few doors and the heat and lack of air was enough to make >you >pass out. Rick, Brad and I finally made our way outside for air as an >increasingly fed up crowd were starting to yell "let us in, let us in!" >Geez. Not good. > >Finally we were let in. This time around the women mostly performed >contemporary songs with just a few old standards here and there. My set >list is incomplete. The performers were Michelle Branch, Susan Tedeschi >(awesome and one of her songs was Joni's "River"), Deborah Fox, Paula Cole >("So Ordinary" and Tom Waits "The House Where Nobody Lives"), Norah Jones >(wonderful), Trisha Yearwood (one of the best last time and this - "St. >Cloud, Minnesota" and "The Man That Got Away"), Sheryl Crow ("Run Baby Run" >and "Goodbye"), Reba McIntyre ("I Got Lost in His Arms"), Stevie Nicks >(OMG - "Landslide" - the BEST of the night and "Sunday Kind of Love") and >for the finale JONI doing "Woodstock", "What's A Sweetheart Like You Doing >in a Dump Like This?" (not kidding - is this a Waits or Newman song?? and >then a big surprise "Chinese Cafe". She looked stunning in a long gun >metal >grey with dark fuschia trim crinkle-pleated Miyake kimono-style gown (for >those who enjoy the fashion report ;-) Henley did refer to her "takes" on >the music biz as he introduced her. > >As in '98 they had the "El Nino Orchestra" back and it was filled with many >of Joni's best boys - including Peter Erskine on drums, Bob Sheppard, >incredibly channeling Wayne Shorter on sax and flute, Ralph (Joni's >concertmaster on the 2000 BSN tour) on first violin, Vince Mendoza >conducting and Larry Klein musically directing. > >We didn't see any "stars" other than a haggard looking Nick Nolte getting >into his car after the show ;-) All the big shots were there, though, >somewhere at their VIP tables ;-) Phyliss and Bob were going to the VIP >reception after the show, so hopefully she can fill us in on more manana. >She was going to try to sneak the rest of us in but we had heat prostration >at that point LOL. > >Henley made some remark about being back in two years - hope next time he >starts his private gala at 3 in the afternoon, though! > >Kakki _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:27:02 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II Kakki, Did you wear your baseball cap with the secret two microphones in it?? Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:42:21 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: Thinking of women NJC Hi Azeem, Yeah: I knew there was this danger of lumping in Madonna with the others and I did consider changing it but decided not to because she was one of the original people mentioned in the quote. I do believe she is higher class than the others in musical terms, although I would ever buy anything by her myself. I am posting this to you as an immediate response and I will probably expand on this when I see the other reactions. I agree with you totally but felt that making the point about sexism was more important than trying to make a league table of people I feel to be more or less untalented. Sorry if it offends. Mike. - ----Original Message Follows---- From: AzeemAK@aol.com To: ink08@hotmail.com ("Mike Pritchard"), joni@smoe.org CC: yael@alumni.brown.edu Subject: Re: Thinking of women NJC Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:41:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.161]) by mc4-f5.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 14 Nov 2002 03:41:21 -0800 Received: from AzeemAK@aol.comby imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id i.1e.22a2e43 (15886);Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:41:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from aol.com (mow-m31.webmail.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v89.21) with ESMTP id MAILINID81-1114064113; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:41:13 - -0500 Message-ID: <543F7220.324A34C1.001684A6@aol.com> X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Return-Path: AzeemAK@aol.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2002 11:41:21.0515 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0E0DBB0:01C28BD2] << MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were as equally untalented as Cristina and Madonna but nobody criticised them in terms of their gender. >> I seem to be becoming Madonna's temporary unofficial spokesman here, but Mike, PUR-LEASE! Madonna does not deserve to be lumped in with those other three names, not by a long chalk. If nothing else, her longevity sets her apart. I've already made my case about the worth of some of her records, so I won't go through that again... Interestingly, while you are right that Hammer and Vanilla Ice were not criticised for being men, Vanilla Ice WAS heavily slated because of his colour. I don't know what this tells us (I'll probably think of a grand theory soon enough :-) Azeem in London - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:42:18 EST From: CoyoteRick@aol.com Subject: Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II There isn't much to add from my seat (next to Kakki), except to reiterate how HOT it was -- man, they are touting the old Wiltern as the NEW Wiltern, but they had better get some A/C. I thought two things were significant. First, Joni again this year was the final performer. This happening after Henley introduced her as being an influence on all the women that performed on the stage that evening. Joni was also the only one to perform three numbers. The others were limited to two. She looked happy, rested and beautiful. It was a great show. Enough has been said about Stevie. She blew me away. On the way home, Brad asked me why she plays with her dress so much. He only vaguely knew who she was -- but knows her "group." My work is never done with that man. He was a trooper -- for him the evening was comparable to root canal. But he did say Joni was far and away the most into what she was doing. He said he felt more from her singing than all the others combined. Whew! I was taken with Reba's performance as well. Never a fan, her stage presence and voice surprised me. If anyone has recommendations for a Reba LP that is just a little bit country, let me know. Finally, as is my favorite part about this cyber family, meeting up with fellow JMDLers is always a blast and makes waiting for late concerts and sitting in hot concert halls worth it! No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California "Only fools are afraid to be burned by fire..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:41:49 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: Re: Thinking of women NJC Mike wrote: > >My mail in response to two pieces from yesterday's digest #447 (by >blondeinthebleachers@hotmail.com >and SMC1254@aol.com) was entitled 'slut whore >bimbo' but luckily I read 448 before hitting the send button. And there I >see a post from Yael which said what I was going to say in a much better >way so now I won't bother. Thanks Yael for reminding us that we, as a >group and as individuals, still have a long way to go as far as gender >bias is concerned. MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were as equally untalented as >Cristina and Madonna but nobody criticised them in terms of their gender. >When are we going to get over this desire to insult people in this way >when we are unhappy with something unrelated to their gender, i.e. their music. hey - i thought 'ice ice baby' was brilliant! just kidding. i agree with azeem that i don't think madonna is completely without merit... but then again, i was once of those little 10-yr olds with rubber bracelets all the way up my arm in 1985 (though i can proudly say i never had a 'boy toy' belt). and also interesting to think about the race thing re vanilla ice then and eminem now. how is it the same? how is it different? i think, to eminem's credit, he grapples with this issue himself in his music. he seems to me more comfortable talking about race in hip hop than most people seem to be. not that i know a whole lot about hip hop, but folks should read william upski wimsatt's "bomb the suburbs" and "no more prisons" - did i already post that? its about hip hop, unschooling, philanthropy, organizing... by a young white guy from chicago. interesting stuff. ANYway. mike from barcelona - i don't think i said the whore/slut/bimbo thing any better than you would have - i always appreciate your lovely posts for their content and their form, both! peace out, yael PS: anyone wanna offer me a job in boston? ;) NP: linda thompson's new album - SO good, especially "evona darling" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:48:13 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: T'log promotion T'log! Thanks Bryan, for inventing such a great abbreviation for Travelogue! Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:57:40 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Stormy Weather - Walden Woods II Rick & Kakki, Thanks a bunch you two for the first-hand reports. If anything, they confirm that these media reports are pretty false and that Joni IS getting the recognition she deserves and seems to be in a pretty joyous place. I was ESPECIALLY psyched to hear about the Dylan cover...perhaps this reinforces what Fred suggested about revisiting her own work for some further jump-starting of her own writing. Hi Clark! :~) Bob NP: Joni, Borderline from T ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:06:53 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: More Joni interview... The LA Times rehashes the W interview in this AM's paper. They left out the tits and crotch reference, though. Lightweights! :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:08:58 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Coyote Rick (NJC) Let me add another belated Happy Birthday wish to Mr. Casa Alegre, a true gentleman, and, as Kate said, definitely the host with the most. - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:17:50 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: Re: More Joni interview... The story title "last flight" reminds me of A.E. ... L.A. Times, November 14, 2002 from: http://www.calendarlive.com/printedition/calendar/calwknd/cl-wk-quick14nov14 .story QUICK TAKES Mitchell takes her last flight By Randy Lewis Singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell says her new "Travelogue" album, due Tuesday, will be the final destination on her three decade-plus pop music journey. The Rock and Roll Hall of Famer tells W Magazine in its December issue that her disgust with the music industry's relentless pursuit of trendiness has prompted her to give up songwriting. "What would I do?... Get hair extensions and a choreographer?" she asks in the interview. "It's not my world." Mitchell has previously expressed her desire to channel her artistic energies into the painting she has always done in addition to her music. "Travelogue" is a double CD consisting of orchestrated arrangements of her songs with appearances by jazz musicians including Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:40:11 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Jungle Line Live Whoa, is there a tape tree around with this rare soundbite? I would also LOVE to hear the Zappa concert. That was a new one on me. Penelope and the Sea...that would be a cool tab. :-) At 3:26 PM -0500 11/13/02, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > > >1975: Joni, as part of the Rolling Thunder Revue with Dylan and >others, performed twice today in New Haven, Connecticut at the >Veterans Memorial Coliseum - once in the afternoon and again in the >evening. She performed the song "Jungle Line" from her just >released new album "The Hissing of Summer Lawns". > - -- ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:41:56 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Evian takes us down the memory trail (NJC) <<2.) Who remembers the cookbook idea? did it ever happen? Didn't Joni get the only copy? My recollection is dim.>> Will wonders never cease? Ashara with the mending tailbone (Thank you SO much for your healing prayers and thoughts) posts TWICE in one day!! (Although it's painfully late to be jumping in one this thread, and no one probably even gives a crap anymore about the subject.........but I digress.....) As an INCREDIBLE thank you for hosting Jonifest, Marian gifted me with a copy of the cookbook, and I value it highly. (Not to mention having made some scrumptuous tasty morsels from it!) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:55:44 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Jungle Line Live In a message dated 11/14/2002 11:40:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, sem8@cornell.edu writes: > Whoa, is there a tape tree around with this rare soundbite? Sue, I've got a couple of her appearances on the Rolling Thunder Tour: November 21, Boston MA November 26, Augusta ME December 1/2, Toronto, Ont BUT "Jungle Line" isn't included on any of these...Don't Interrupt The Sorrow, Edith & The Kingpin, Coyote (I think, I'm working from a weak & a lazy mind...) + she comes back out for the encore of "This Land Is Your Land" and takes a solo verse saluting the Canadian landscape. I DO have some live Jungle Lines on the '76 shows I have, however. I couldn't believe it when I heard them as I never knew she had done JL live! Of course, am happy to share any and all for blanks & postage...or I'll trade for that Zappa appearance! ;~) Bob NP: Brian Blade Fellowship, "Mojave" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:06:43 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: JoniFest 2002 Pictures! My last gasp! njc, I suppose Lama, These are some great pictures. I really enjoyed looking at them. By the way you do resemble Harry Potter, though at first glance I thought of Sir Elton John:) Kasey Mine are at: http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album09 Most of them are far bigger than they will be when they're edited to tiny web page portraits. See them as the artist (me!) intended. See Bryan, Giselle, Christina, Sue Mac, & Patti in their natural habitats! To see SugarPants in their full-sized glory, click on the word "Full"! See this year's focal point- a composite of Sherelle Smith! See the dizzying confusion lurking just below the surface of the billiard room door (Page 7, #37)! See the lesbian cottage(Page 7, #38)! Thanks to Chris Marshall, bassist extraordianare, for the interface and the space. See them all, before they're edited into tiny retirement as particles on a web page. There are lots of photos of JoniFest 2002 from others too. Amaze your friends. Be the first on your block to collect 'em all. www.hatstand.com/gallery Lama I swear, after 05, I'm outta here. No, really. I mean it this time.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:21:03 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Thinking of women NJC Yael Harlap wrote: > Mike wrote: > > > \MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were as equally untalented as > >Cristina and Madonna but nobody criticised them in terms of their gender. > >When are we going to get over this desire to insult people in this way > >when we are unhappy with something unrelated to their gender, i.e. their music. > > hey - i thought 'ice ice baby' was brilliant! > > just kidding. But He did get criticized for his race. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:29:55 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Cookbook AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > <<2.) Who remembers the cookbook idea? > > did it ever happen? Didn't Joni get the only copy? My recollection is > dim.>> Yes she did, though we never did get it printed up for mass distribution. BUT, I do still have it and the cover electronically and will send it out to anyone who asks. Just don't ask for any more revisions. Those are done! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:40:06 -0600 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Cookbook <> oh, Jerry... i would LOVE that..... and depending on how big the darn thing is, i would probably be willing to print and bind copies for those who are interested. we have lots of leftover comb-binding supplies here at work. just let me know..... cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:14:29 +0000 From: "Mick Mick" Subject: Travelogue We have to be brave to love and when we do, we sometimes cling. I know I can to Joni. I apologise, but I'm only human. She is, after all, the greatest love I never met. So anticipating Travelogue I projected all kinds of stuff. I was so sure that Amelia, for one, would swirl to the sound of ascending siren-choirs linking me back to olde trackes of longe agoe and that I would sway, cinematically. Aahh.... I put such a lot of my own stuff into that wait. Hearing the promotion files over my tinny computer speakers, I was gutted. Those projectors spluttered and died and I perceived, in the darkness, my ether-friend, weak-voiced and frail and being devoured by tight-knickered, pompous British "lets do pop" orchestrals and diddly-diddly sycophants. A light glimmered with Dawntreader and then spluttered again on Hejira. I had to leave it (funny that, I've just heard Hejira again, painted with a colour and depth, and communicated wth an impatience to move on that leaves the first version looking like a pencil study!) And all I had for strength was the memory of the shocks of ALL her albums at first sound. Last night I listened to the rest, leading with Slouching Towards Bethlehem. Lucky me! It gave me new ears for the orchestra. It lets them shine and do their orchestra thing powerfully! And now I'm hearing so much more, on every track! The day is moving on but I can't... seem to ...leave...my... computer. Damn you Nonesuch for trailing it in this way! Damn me for being so greedy as to grab the files and let myself listen to them on crappy speakers. But! Travelogue is growing . I'm at the point now where I recognise there isn't a wrong move on any of the songs I've heard, just beautiful brush strokes.. And it's big, it's big, it's BIG!!!! It's art and it's the best art, because I can now see it (and so will you Vince, it's just one listen away) And Joni, when you sing ' I need your love' on Chinese cafe, I hear you. And I send it, not clinging now but fresh, and breezing, through a clear blue sky. This album is a triumph. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:52:28 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: re: thinking of women and Joni As a woman and as someone guilty of using "whore" and "bimbo" to describe britney and christina I can say that I respect your decision to not do so. Your post was intelligent and conscientous but I call it like I see it. Of course these words in our vernacular are disparaging towards women but what is worse is that our society continues to acknowlegdge a woman's physical beauty above all else. Do you think that these two girls would make any money for themselves or for their lables if they didn't dress and writhe all over the place like they do? If christna and britney had any kind of intellect and cared about what their images may be projecting than maybe they wouldn't pose on the cover of rolling stone with nothing on or make music videos full of sexual innuendoes and soft-core pornography. There are many women today who make quality music without these tactics, they may be less known, but at least they respect themselves and their art. They wouldn't be called bimbos or whores because they are not and they make sure they don't come across that way. I don't respect either of these girls, their music is crap, and their images are screwing up the collective conscience of many teen age girls who think they need to act this way or look this way because it is fed to them 24 hours a day in magazines, on the TV and in the news. It is no surprise that Joni wants out of this business either, although I feel she could record and produce and distribute her own music without losing her core audience she may just be disgusted with the whole industry. I certainly am. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:16:17 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: thinking of women NJC Azeem wrote: >>Interestingly, while you are right that Hammer and Vanilla Ice were not criticised for being men, Vanilla Ice WAS heavily slated because of his colour. I don't know what this tells us<< Jerry added: >>But (Vanilla Ice) he did get criticized for his race.<< Whatever it tells you and tells me is open to different interpretations, and that's cool. What it doesn't do is make it ok to use offensive sexist (tautology?) language against women and not men just because the guys are getting the flak over their 'race' (like 'gender', another social construct). I know Azeem and Jerry are not saying that it IS OK, but it is curious that their comments are so similar, or at least focus on the same thing, which could, I repeat could, be read as a justification, if one was in a pedantic mood. Which I'm not, but while I'm on the subject, let's not confuse 'race' with 'colour' either. mike in barcelona NP Pat Metheny  Trio 99-00 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #489 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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