From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #488 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, November 14 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 488 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Dawntreader from Travelogue [Lindsay Moon ] Latest shocking news from New Orleans!! NJC [Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Glee] RE: accomplishment NJC [Franklin Shea ] Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits [Eric W Taylor ] thinking of women [Yael Harlap ] Re: accomplishment NJC [Franklin Shea ] Re: Joni and Santana ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: accomplishment NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] a good run njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni segment on PBS ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #486 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #486 - RS review [BRYAN8847@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:35:07 -0800 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: Dawntreader from Travelogue I just listened to "Dawntreader" from Travelogue, and man! what a knockout! You could knock me over with a feather! It seemed completely timeless to me, suspended in that perfect place in art that just grabs you from any point in time. She could have written it yesterday. I hope if she does some interviews for this work she'll talk about what it's like to revisit her "ingenue" work as she's called it. I don't see much ingenue in that; just great, timeless beauty. I am reminded of when I saw her on the BSN tour and she played "Ludwig's Tune" and I remember wondering (right after I pulled myself up off the floor) how it must feel for her to revisit that piece -- was she just so proud of what a great piece of music she created even as a young woman. Pretty awe-inspiring. Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:07:37 +0100 From: Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup Subject: Latest shocking news from New Orleans!! NJC Just kidding! Nothing shocking but LOTS of exciting things happening for me, a Dane being exposed to the life in the REAL City (NOTHING like small Copenhagen!). My "new life" consists of music, music and then some music. I've been out to hear so many good bands and had the chance of sitting in many times, which is always nerve tingling but fun when it all comes together (IF it does!). The cocktail bar "Lee Circle" is frequently visited to the point where I just have to say "The Usual" (I've always wanted to be able to say that) and the bartender hands over a "firetruck" (Jagermeister and cranberry soda...highly recommended!). There's still lots of jamming going on as Jack Neilson, Michael and I are preparing to do a regular (once a week) gig at the House Of Blues and I've talked to different songwriters with whom I might collaborate. Michael says they are good ones, but I'll wait and see before I get TOO excited...hopefully something will develop from it. I'm waiting for songs from four different songwriters, so if you need content for your prayers... As Michael has already posted (but I find worth repeating), the mixing of Jack's CD is finished, and you all have something INCREDIBLE to look forward to in the beginning of December! But of course Pazfest- and Jonifest 2002- attendees already knew that. Talking about Jack's release, I hope too to see MANY of you at his release party the 12th of December and that you'll try and stay for the weekend for a minifest. It'd be FANTASTIC to relive Jonifest 2002 being reunited with my new hippie friends! My best to y'all, Christina P.S. Forgive me for the double send out of the last message...the computer wouldn't send it off (luckily I only pushed the button twice). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:12:34 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: RE: accomplishment NJC >> Franklin> First comment, would be that discussing past, >> >current, or future impact was not the issue, as I understood it. >> >The point was strictly about the conistency of "consistent, >> >inspirational quality". The point, at least as far as I understood >> >it was artists capable of releasing innovative, totally "filler >> >free" album/CDs. There is a world full of great artists with spotty >> >records (no pun intended) as far as timeless, meaningful, classic >> >songs go. Sure, they might have a few (if one is fortunate indeed) >> >songs on any given CD that are memorable, that become part of one's > > >life. > >Victor answers> I do consider the albums I mentioned to be filler >free. I believe they areof "consistent inspirational quality" and I >would not change anything aboutthem. And one of the reasons these >particular artists stand out to me, is not only do they all possess >a sheer beautiful and magical quality, but they are all hugely >innovative and have definately helped shape the >direction of music then and now. I feel the same way about Blue, For the >Roses, and Court and Spark. Not only are they beautiful works of art but >they have had a huge impact on music itself and influenced countless >musicians and continue to do so. >Franklin responds: Victor you not only strike me as a dear soul, but >I find that our musical tastes are actually quite similar concerning >the lists you provided (which leads me to conclude that you have >excellent taste - LOL). Any comments of mine regarding >technicalities concerning the totatity of certain works in no way >reflects my opinions as all mentioned being musically inspired icons. >When I think of what Joni has done, I have to take all of this into >consideration. Those three albums she did were groundbreaking and in my >opinion, that is part of her accomplishment. > Franklin - No question there!! > > Obviously, just because someone, or most people for that matter, >> haven't been exposed to an artist's body of work has little to do >> with its artistic content/merit. > > > No it does not. But again these records have >influenced countlessmusicians and they are still held in high regard >thirty some odd yearslater. I see that as a major accomplishment. >Franklin: NO question there. Countless is correct. Still not >necessarily part of the initial issue, but I agree with you >whole-heartedly. > BTY I found it interesting that you mentioning, >"personal favorites aside". I'm not quite sure what to make of that. >Since art, by definition, is subjective, taste, I would think that >"personal favorites" would play a major factor in anyone's choices. >I doubt you were insinuating that you were being objective in your >category entries. Then again, odd as it might seem to me, maybe you >were. > > >Victor responds: I only meant that I was taking more than my own >personal taste intoconsideration when thinking of people who have >come close to what Joni hasaccomplished, considering everything I >have mentioned above. For sure,everyone is going to have a >different opinion if we are only speaking about strictly artistic >content. >Franklin responds: Well done counsel. That clarifies my question >quite clearly. Once again, thank you for your thoughtful, >considerate and intelligent comments. I've enjoyed this interaction. Highest regards, Franklin NP Jeff Beck "You Had It Coming" > > > > > > > > >--- Victor Johnson >--- waytoblu@mindspring.com >Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson > >Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 >Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:14:12 -0500 From: Eric W Taylor Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\) wrote: << Yeah! Go, Norma go! It's not like you'd put a vividly ripe vaginal symbol on your album cover or anything >> Are you referring to the Court & Spark cover symbol? Or do you see the same thing I do on the Mingus cover, accompanied by a guy with a flaccid penis? Is this an ink blot test that only true Joni fans can see? The big difference between the Mingus cover, the naked butt on For The Roses and the Hissing bikini shot is good taste. It's like the difference between Michaelangelo and Linda Lovelace. ET ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:16:20 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: thinking of women hey- i'm not putting NoJoCo on this because even though it isn't directly joni content, it derives from the conversations of joni's representation (or lack thereof) in rolling stone magazine and other media outlets... and i just want to suggest that there are better ways to critique britney/madonna/christina a - both their music and their marketing - than labeling them as "sluts" and "whores" and "bimbos". my general rule is that if a disparaging word is gendered (ie: only is ever used to describe people of one gender), i avoid using it. it is disrespectful to women. ie: bimbo=assumption that women who use their sexuality are dumb and "easy"; "whore" and "slut" = promiscuous behavior is seen as negative in women which wouldn't necessarily be a problem except that it is lauded in men - aren't men who have lots of partners "studs"? there's a double standard for you. it is unfortunate that our societies are structured so that the thing that makes women "successful" more than anything else - and what is seen as the most appropriate role for women (who aren't domestics) is selling their bodies and sexuality. one's body/sex in exchange for independence and strength. its sad that although men's strength, independence and success are not tied to their sexuality and their bodies, women's are, traditionally... and as we can see both through the way britney/christina/etc are marketed AND through people's reactions to that marketing (eg: calling them "sluts" for how they choose to allow themselves to be marketed), we are still mired in those traditions. - -yael, once again atop soapbox. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:30:06 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re: accomplishment NJC >In a message dated 11/13/2002 6:46:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, >franklinshea@mn.rr.com writes: > >>1972 Talking Book >>1973 Innervisions >>1974 Fullfillingness' First Finale >> >>>Franklin: I love Stevie Wonder, Victor. That said: I can hardly >>>agree with the notion that there's not some "filler" on each of >> >these CDs though. >> >Bob> Your CD's must have some added bonus tracks, Franklin. The >versions I have of the above are completely and 100% free of filler! >;~) Pray tell thee sir, this scurvy knave is dying to know which >Stevie songs you would deem as "filler" on the above. (Be >forewarned: there IS no right answer to this question) >Franklin responds> Bob, you knave you (scurvy is a little harsh, >particularly as we've never met). You've left me no choice but to >hold my tongue, as I NEVER give wrong answers... Ah, "the eloquence >of silence has never been written down" - L.A. Cowboy. Love that quote, even if it pertains to me in this situation. P.S. I also love Stevie Wonder and a large body of his work, who couldn't? Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:47:00 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni and Santana why i was just thinking about santana who also has a string of great albums but i can't recall the names at this moment... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:02:09 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: accomplishment NJC totally agree with ya'll victor & bob...these 3 records...masterpieces all... > 1972 Talking Book > 1973 Innervisions > 1974 Fullfillingness' First Finale ps i have a memory of seeing little stevie wonder open for a rolling stone concert...stevie played the drums on a one of the stones' songs (was this a dream?) ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:07:20 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: a good run njc other artists with several good albums in a row- bob marley, jackson browne, fleetwood mac ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:14:50 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni segment on PBS oh, coooool...! i have that on dvd !!!!...i bought it when henry came to town with his photos...what a nice guy...i haven't seen it yet cuz i don't yet have a DVD PLAYER !!! lol..asking santa for one this year... >>I found the name of the PBS show from last friday that had the brilliant Joni content: From TV GUIDE: Under the Covers Photographer Henry Diltz and artist Gary Burden<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:14:51 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits thanks ken, i wondered if joni had said anything about either aimee or jonatha...i think her quote is a compliment? >>I don't know what Joan has to say about Jonatha, but about aimee she said "she dares to put the anxiety back in rock." ken<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:14:52 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: november 13!!!!! NJC H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y COYOTE RICK, HUNK OF HUNKS! happiest of birthdays to you rick, yes a hunk to both sides & an impeccable excellent host! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:53:10 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #486 as I was watching CNBC this morning. Between imminent war with Iraq and news of the snipers, the news stream at the bottom of the screen announced that "singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell says her next album will be her last. Mitchell is disgusted with the music business, calling it a 'cesspool'". Really? Is that a joke or for real? Joni may not be "popular," but she can certainly generate headlines. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 02:58:54 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #486 - RS review >The critics should be able to be honest. Of course. But I suspect the reviewer isn't even capable of appreciating T'log in the first place. But perhaps that is Joni's dilemma, creating a work, that while lovely and distinctive, is perhaps only accessible to those who've been listening for years and already "get it." Bryan ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #488 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)