From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #487 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, November 14 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 487 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Article says Joni's calling it quits ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: accomplishment(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] you guys are selling joni way short.... ["walterphil" ] Re: Joni and Zappa [David Sadowski ] Re: Joni Quote - comment ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars ["Kat] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2 Stars ["Ka] Re: PazFest cds! Wow! (NJC) [Michaelpaz@aol.com] Re: PazFest cds! Wow! (NJC) [Michaelpaz@aol.com] NJC Bennets young & old [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: "all the guilty people..." ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] the "W" interview ["c Karma" ] I'm quitting too. njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] RE: YOU BET!! was RE: Re: Joni, "an original" ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\] JoniFest 2002 Pictures! My last gasp! njc, I suppose ["Jim L'Homme] Re: Joni and Santana [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] RE: accomplishment NJC [Franklin Shea ] Re: accomplishment NJC [David Marine ] Re: accomplishment NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: accomplishment NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Nick Drake(njc)NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #486 [Kardinel@aol.com] Re: Linda Thompson - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars [Murp] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #486 ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Joni segment on PBS [KJHSF@aol.com] RE: Article says Joni's calling it quits ["Heather" ] rolling stoned ["PAUL PETERSON" ] november 13!!!!! NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] nov 13 II NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Speaking about bizarre links... [Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup Subject: Article says Joni's calling it quits >>saying she would never take another deal in the record business, "which means I may not record again".<< who knows... but NEVER taking another record deal is one thing... & MAY not record again is another...hope springs eternal... pssst....Joni, you can do this on your own...you don't need no stinkin record company...there is a lot of great music out there! pay no attention to what the mainstream biz is producing these days...you won't find it too much of it there...that doesn't mean it isn't alive & well...your songs stand up on their own...remember when you recorded with just a vocal & guitar/piano? & blew us all away...c'mon...you still have a lot to say... stephen wrote >>But she said: "no one wants to listen to what I have to say." She seemed extremely pissed, and rightly so, that she has not received the "recognition" she truly deserves.<< i know she feels this way & i can understand where she is coming from only in the context of where the music biz has gone...but i believe she is looking in the wrong direction for recognition...the music biz is indeed as she describes it but so what?...she can just go around it...i really wish she'd stop looking at her music reflected through the biz & start looking at what other folks (especially woman) have done recently ... 2 great examples are jonatha brooke & aimee mann...they've had more success & recognition on their own terms than they ever had when they had a record deal...joni may not have the widespread commercial success of some other, less talented, 'artists', but that has never been her priority... she has a significant fan base that i am convinced would buy an album of her new songs (!) if she were to release them independently & she'd be keeping all the profits from the sales instead of handing it over to a label... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:27:06 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! lama >>Russell terrier and argued to let him sniff the other diners!<< kakki >> Her little Coco was yapping her head off being leashed and since it was only just a few of us out there at first being copacetic, she let her off the leash to stop yapping. << lol...joni shows that she understands dog thinking...dogs need to sniff everything to get oriented to the world around them...then they settle down usually... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:53:34 -0500 From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits I was also reading an article in RS magazine recently that said that Joni was quitting....guess when the article was written...1970!I was looking through old RS magaines.good thing she didn't quit back then isn't it! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:26:16 EST From: SMC1254@aol.com Subject: Fluffer for the public: Rollong Stone Well, I flip through RS for the pictures when I am bored. They always seem to disregard Joni - I frankly know she is way over their heads - Van Gogh again; there is alot of corporate bullshit going on-sort of like pharmaceutical companies wining and dining doctors. I found the review to be bizarre - as he called the album bizarre. From what I remember they disliked Turbulent Indigo, BSN and so on. Rolling Stone is a bad magazine, a corporate Rag. A sad excuse for a guide to music and arts. Look at the cover with Christina A. That girl will be travel - drained, she is the definition of slut music. I loved the comment Joni made... What do you want me to do show my tits and get a choreographer. Now that made me smile and laugh hard. The fact is "Joni is right " about all of this slamming, damn it. Madonna, as much as I follow her and respect her in some arena, she is a capitalist pig and a really bad actress. Frightening. Prostitution. Still I love to dance and party, so there you go. There will be some gushy, amazing reviews of Travelogue, Rest assured. Joni will smell the roses. I hope she keeps on slamming and ranting, singing and painting for us and her. Remember - She is a sage. Rantingly a devotee, Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:33:12 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Linda Thompson - njc "I was sitting in bed today thinking, 'I wish I could be a gay icon,' but gay men hate folk music." - - Singer-songwriter Linda Thompson, who recently released her first new album in 17 years, as quoted in the San Francisco Chronicle, October 9. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:56:46 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: accomplishment(njc) > In fact the only artist, male or female that has a possibly > comparable accomplishment would, in IMO be L.A. Cowboy. Being as I've never heard of the L.A. Cowboy until now I can't comment on his music. But by virtue of that I would disagree with this statement and ask if his recordings have had a substantial impact on music and why he would be the only artist with a "possibly comparable accomplishment?" Really thinking about it(personal favorites aside), a few people come to mind... Stevie Wonder 1972 Talking Book 1973 Innervisions 1974 Fullfillingness' First Finale and on each side you have 1972 Music of My Mind and 1976 Songs in the Key of Life Van Morrison 1968 Astral Weeks 1970 Moondance (skipping over His Band and the E Street Choir) 1971 Tupelo Honey Neil Young 1969 Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere 1970 After the Gold Rush 1972 Harvest (with CSNY Deju Vu inside there as well) no further questions your honor... Victor in Asheville - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:06:37 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: you guys are selling joni way short.... in my list joni has 9!!! breathtaking albums back to back stas, clouds, ladies, blue, roses, court, miles, hissing, herjira thats 9!! 9 perfect lps methinks only the beatles can break that pp me, with, hard, 4 sale help, rubber, revolver, pepper, mm tour, white hmmm 10... (damn that yellow submarine!) (could have been longer) stones? aftermath, buttons, satanic, beggars, bleed, sticky, exile (a measley 6) but taking your point of view, i have seneral more groups or artists that have at least 3 airplane-surrealistic, baxters, crown. pointed head, volunteers dylan--another side,bringin, highway, blonde judy--jc5, in my life, wildflowers, who knows joan--jb5, farewell, noel, joan laura--ist songs, eli, tendaberry, christmas, miracle bowie--hunky, ziggy, aladin, pin ups, diamond dogs (damn that young americans) but then... station, low, heroes, lodger, scarey monsters (looks like the beats and joni had a run for their money here) (and at this point, let's discount live albums, shall we?) kinks--face to face, something else, village green, lola elvis c--aim, this years', armed, get happy, trust, imp bed (and for all you nitpickers---ok ok noel and gonna take a miracle are not groundbreaking albums i just happen to love them) my point is song per song, album per album joni is right up there with (or well ahead of) anyones best xxx walt The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:13:24 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2 Stars First of all never trust Rolling Stone they are a crappy crappy rag of a mag, and secondly please pardon my french but the magazine that promptly features the two whoring bimbos, Christina and Britney, as musical acts no less, doesn't know shit!! >From: "Blair Fraipont" >Reply-To: "Blair Fraipont" >To: davidmarine@mindspring.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2 Stars >Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:07:19 -0500 > > I usually trust Rolling Stone, but every now and then, >they'll get someone totally fresh out of college to write reviews. >You can bet if David Wild or David Fricke would give it at least >31/2 stars or more. I can trust them, becuase they have such a >consumate history of reviewing records and the like. Joni getting 2 >stars makes me think of Tori AMos, who back in 1996 released, Boys >for Pele. Well, the Rolling Stone review said something very similar >to what they said about Joni, > Since Tori Amos plays piano they asserted that unlike Jerry Lee >Lewis, who plays songs like "Great Balls of Fire" with gusto and >ferver, that Tori is lacking in that category and those >aforementioned qualities should be added to her work. Well, First of >all, that was just sexist, second, Tori is never and was never, a >'rock n' roller' more of a spiritual muse and thirdly, What the fuck >does Jerry Lee Lewis have to do with anything relevant today, aside >from sodomy? > Same with Joni, she really isn't a 'rock n' roller' and never >would strive to make a 'rock orchestration record' becuase it is not >her style.. Poo POO. > Blair :) >I'll wear it proudly-Elvis Costello > > > > > > >>It seems Rolling Stone does not feel that the strings on Travelogue >>are up >>to the standards of "great orchestral rock." Glad that the reviewer >>is >>shielding RS's readers from orchestral recordings that are not >>sophisticated >>enough for them! >> >>Cherokee Louise lives under a tunnel? >> >>And so the slamming begins........ >> >> >> >>http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/cd/review.asp?aid=2045280&cf=360 > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:27:04 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni and Zappa >Harald: I've read somewhere that she showed up at least once at >Zappa's place in the late 60's. Seems a very strange connection >to me (was she >wearing feathers and bells?) Of course, Joni and Frank only lived a few hundred yards apart, he on Laurel Canyon Bl. and Joni on Lookout Mountain Av. I imagine that if she were bored, popping over to Frank's to see what was going on might have appealed. :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:31:26 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: Joni and Zappa On one of those early live recordings I recently worked on, I seem to recall Joni saying that one of her songs had been somewhat influenced by hearing the Mothers of Invention... could that have been Chelsea Morning? Steve Dulson wrote: >> Harald: I've read somewhere that she showed up at least once at >> Zappa's place in the late 60's. Seems a very strange connection >> to me (was she >wearing feathers and bells?) > > > Of course, Joni and Frank only lived a few hundred yards apart, > he on Laurel Canyon Bl. and Joni on Lookout Mountain Av. I > imagine that if she were bored, popping over to Frank's to > see what was going on might have appealed. :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:27:12 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni Quote - comment bob s >>Anyway, my take on this is that your point is consonant with Joni's point - without Madonna having paved the way, there might have been more 'new Jonis' in the world of pop today, and fewer Britneys and Christinas.<< this is so true...having watched how so many a&r folks are always looking for someone new to replicate the last 'artist' who just sold a gazillion records...its not about art [joni's husband ;~} ], it is about record sales bob s >>And why was Madonna ultimately so successful in selling her wares ? Because most people are willing to buy the product she was willing to sell,<< madonna's wares (at least in the beginning) were primarily 'sex' & 'shock' which are obviously an easy sell... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:27:14 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars is an orchestra supposed to swing? (rhetorical question) imo, a reviewer should have a good understanding & respect for the artist he/she is reviewing & based on that foundation, ought to then give an honest review...unfortunately this is often not the case... ahemm bob...i am not that old...try UNCLE! >>NP: (Kate's older brother) Tony Bennett, "They Can't Take That Away From Me"<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:27:13 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2 Stars my general assessment of RS (overall) is that it is a very sexist rag...so there...lol performing songwriter is a much much much much much much better magazine...its actually mostly about music...imagine that... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:41:25 EST From: Michaelpaz@aol.com Subject: Re: PazFest cds! Wow! (NJC) Wow> Debra Geez I am speechless with your review. Thanks for liking the weakest link (me) as well. It was all the band that held me up there. That was a bouzouki that Beth was playing and I had the idea for heer to do a Metheny type solo on that to give it more of an Americana feel. I am glad you are enjoying the albums and look forward to finishing the series out sometime in the Spring (Marsalis, Lahm, and of COURSE Queenie). BTW now you know why I call Beth my wicked step sister. I was forced to leave that in against my better judgement and maybe if I am drunk enough sometime I will tell some of the stories about where all these litle sayings come from. Another fave of Beth's is Ouch Phone (please no graphics). My best to you. Paz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:44:15 EST From: Michaelpaz@aol.com Subject: Re: PazFest cds! Wow! (NJC) Thank you Bob for being my calender and pressure cooker all in one handy kitchen device. The CD is finsihed with the mix and should be mailed to tha plant on Monday the 18th and be back in New Orleans within 10 days. We are trying for the 3rd of Dec but most def by the 10th and the party is ON on the 12th at Tipitinas. Love Paz In a message dated 11/12/2002 7:50:02 AM Central Standard Time, SCJoniGuy writes: > btw...now that I can't bug you about Pazfest, Michael...when is Jack > Nielsen's CD going to be available? :~) > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:45:58 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Bennets young & old In a message dated 11/13/2002 4:27:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > ahemm bob...i am not that old...try UNCLE! LOL! I realized that as soon as I sent it! Or maybe Grandpa! Mea Culpa! Mea Culpa! :~D Bob NP: Brian Blade Fellowship, "Crooked Creek" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:04:36 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: RE: "all the guilty people..." Jenny, You college gurls shure do talk purty. Lama, who knew you had that kind of thinking going on the whole time. Why do you lurk so? > From: Jenny Goodspeed said, > Well, Jim, since you asked... ;~) > > If Webster's had an entry for poet-songwriter, Joni > would be the definition and Court and Spark would be > included as the example - to me it is the most > exquisite marriage of music and words. From the first > poignant notes of the piano intro (as Bob and Bree so > aptly admired) to the very last slide of the guitar - > the song is perfection. > > I imagine during the "All the guilty people..." verse > that this rogue wanderer is telling the protagonist > about his spiritual conversion, attempting to win her > over, so that she too will leave behind her current > life and all it's hypocrisies and trappings > (spiritual, material, creative or otherwise) and to > make a new life with him. > > A bit more romantic of an interpretation, then Lama's, > "come-on line", wouldn't you say? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:16:10 -0800 From: "jeff t." Subject: njc a note of gratitude Hi Franklin Thanks for the tip on LA Cowboy. I reread your post of Friday, November 8th and sure enough, the road to LA is clearly mapped out. Now I see you are one of only five people given "Special Thanks" on LA's homepage. You must have done something truly special to warrant this honor. Please, withhold for just a moment your modesty and share this accolade with us. Thank you. Sincerely, Jeff _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:16:48 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: the "W" interview "Don't make me sound too dissy, ok?" Joni, you just keep on pissing in that fireplace...it's working here! (ROTFL) CC But the day she hits, that's the day she'll leave. That one little victory is all she needs. -- JM _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:18:47 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: I'm quitting too. njc What did I ever GET from listening to dumb-old music anyway? And taking pictures is just a waste of money. I never got the recognition I deserve either. Ask Mags. Ask Kakki. Ask Paz. Ask Roberto. After JoniFest 03, 04, & 05, I'm done. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:29:28 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: RE: YOU BET!! was RE: Re: Joni, "an original" Hmmm. There are HOLES in my Carly Simon collection. I only have four: "Anticipation", "Hotcakes", "Boys In the Trees" and "Spy". Where do I go from here? (I know. I know. '....To the record shop. Duh!') Lama PS, I hate it when you're right. :) > colin said, > It was written by Carole Bayer Sager and Marvin > Hamlisch(defibately by CBS maybe > not Hamlisch), not Carly. > -- Lama said, > > . Maybe Carly wrote "Nobody Does > > It Better" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:38:31 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: JoniFest 2002 Pictures! My last gasp! njc, I suppose Mine are at: http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album09 Most of them are far bigger than they will be when they're edited to tiny web page portraits. See them as the artist (me!) intended. See Bryan, Giselle, Christina, Sue Mac, & Patti in their natural habitats! To see SugarPants in their full-sized glory, click on the word "Full"! See this year's focal point- a composite of Sherelle Smith! See the dizzying confusion lurking just below the surface of the billiard room door (Page 7, #37)! See the lesbian cottage(Page 7, #38)! Thanks to Chris Marshall, bassist extraordianare, for the interface and the space. See them all, before they're edited into tiny retirement as particles on a web page. There are lots of photos of JoniFest 2002 from others too. Amaze your friends. Be the first on your block to collect 'em all. www.hatstand.com/gallery Lama I swear, after 05, I'm outta here. No, really. I mean it this time. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:12:46 -0500 From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Santana I think Joni should collaborate with some innovative musician like Carlos Santana. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:12:52 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits Yeah! Go, Norma go! It's not like you'd put a vividly ripe vaginal symbol on your album cover or anything. ( 1969 http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics ) Or a photo of a bikini-clad chick swimming on her back. (1975) Or your bare backside on a poster-sized foldout! (1972) You have higher standards! And you'd never say 'feck' in a lyric either. Or write a saucy story. You're above the fray! The thing is: she's getting quoted ALL OVER THE PLACE for these pesudo-outragous statements. She lucky enough to be a natural at getting quoted and in that, she's EXACTLY like Madonna. It's not calculated when Joni does it and it's probably not calculated when Madonna does it. They're both broads and I love (one of them) for it! Advice to Victor and Jack: Practice up for your release party. Try this: "Rolling Stone can BITE me." Say it in front of a mirror, boys, until you can make eye contact everytime and deliver the line with CONVICTION. "Rolling Stone wouldn't know ART if it tickled them under the CHIN and said coochy-coo!" Put THAT on a CNN banner! Oh, she's stoking the machinery all right. Sit back and watch how all of this gets picked up next week (the week of the release, eh?) in the tabloids: "CURMUDGEON CALLS IT QUITS!! The Inside Story: Why I won't grab my crotch for MTV!!!, A grandmother's anguish" She's RIGHT where she should be. You *GO* girl! Joni quoted on a CNN banner! That's so outrageous and perfectly excellent! Lama In a message dated 11/12/2002 10:23:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, Joni teases the MTV stars: > "Show my tits? Grab my crotch? Get hair extensions and a > choreographer? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:39:30 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Joni and Zappa Yes, they did hang out and there was some posting on the Zappa list about it at one time. Also read that Joni, I think, dated Captain Beefheart for a bit (they had the painting thing in common). Beefheart was Zappa's boyhood friend. Kakki > >Harald: I've read somewhere that she showed up at least once at > >Zappa's place in the late 60's. Seems a very strange connection > >to me (was she >wearing feathers and bells?) > > Of course, Joni and Frank only lived a few hundred yards apart, > he on Laurel Canyon Bl. and Joni on Lookout Mountain Av. I > imagine that if she were bored, popping over to Frank's to > see what was going on might have appealed. :) > -- > ######################################################## > Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com > "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com > "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 17:46:55 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: RE: accomplishment NJC Franklin responding to Victor In fact the only artist, male or female that has a possibly > comparable accomplishment would, in IMO be L.A. Cowboy. Victor> Being as I've never heard of the L.A. Cowboy until now I can't comment on his music. But by virtue of that I would disagree with this statement and ask if his recordings have had a substantial impact on music and why he would be the only artist with a "possibly comparable accomplishment?" Really thinking about it(personal favorites aside), a few people come to mind... > Hey Victor, point well-taken counsel. Spontaneity has its all-too >obvious drawbacks. First comment, would be that discussing past, >current, or future impact (although, judging from his guest book >signings - I read a some of them, pretty amusing - from the few who >bother to sign those things, he's apparently already had an impact >on numerous personal lives) was not the issue, as I understood it. >The point was strictly about the conistency of "consistent, >inspirational quality". The point, at least as far as I understood >it was artists capable of releasing innovative, totally "filler >free" album/CDs. There is a world full of great artists with spotty >records (no pun intended) as far as timeless, meaningful, classic >songs go. Sure, they might have a few (if one is fortunate indeed) >songs on any given CD that are memorable, that become part of one's >life. Yet, to me the ultimate accomplishment is to release a body of songs (on one CD) that are so consistent in their appeal, social and personal statements, lyrical and musical quality as to deem the ENTIRE CD sheer artistry - timelessly significant. The kind of CD where one doesn't hit the "skip" button multiple times just to get to those one, two, even three "gems". Now I felt that Lama's opinion regarding Joni's three CDs in question was valid. I also felt that his lamentation that few, if any artists have accomplished that feat was accurate. Certainly, the list of such modern accomplishments (60's and on) would be miniscule,in any event. Now remember - we're talking about the content of an entire CD, times three. According to that chosen standard, even one "clinker", or questionable "slot-filler" would disqualify any such list. > Vitor's vote: Stevie Wonder 1972 Talking Book 1973 Innervisions 1974 Fullfillingness' First Finale >Franklin: I love Stevie Wonder, Victor. That said: I can hardly >agree with the notion that there's not some "filler" on each of >these CDs though. One of them might qualify (I won't say which) but >Lama was talking THREE CDs with no "filler"(my choice of word). >Sorry. There are several songs on the above applicant's three in a >row, I would rather skip (not necessarily because of personal taste, >mind you) than listen to. Simply because they're not there to for >any reason other than to "surround" the classics. and on each side you have 1972 Music of My Mind and 1976 Songs in the Key of Life >Victor Van Morrison 1968 Astral Weeks 1970 Moondance (skipping over His Band and the E Street Choir) 1971 Tupelo Honey >Franklin: Once again, Love Van Morrison (who doesn't). But there's >enough "filler" on some of these to partially fill an intelligent >A&R guy's (is that an oxymoron?) waste basket without a second >thought. Remember, we were discussing a CD (three actually) with >songs containing the mystical, elusive lyrical/musical combination >to merit no second thought in hitting the "skip" button. Some >TOTAL, timeless classics on each of these to be sure - but doesn't >make my cut of "total play". >Victor: Neil Young 1969 Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere 1970 After the Gold Rush 1972 Harvest (with CSNY Deju Vu inside there as well) >Franklin: Crazy about Neil and CSNY. You are getting much closer >here. Two, possibly three between all of them (Neil's and a CSNY or >two) but Lama also inserted the caveat that they had to be "in a >row". Now as far as those first three Neil CD's go - there are some >extraordinary classics here and there, but - IMO there's also a >little "filler" also in some of them thar hills. CSNY had two that I >would arguably certify "filler free", but once again, the caveat was >THREE. Nonetheless, you make a good point, and I really appreciated your reply. You might disagree with this one - but what the hell - total agreement all the time can get a little boring (note any Kasey to Kakki communiques...just kidding kids - lol). I would appreciate anybody else naming three successive releases that they think qualify for the "front to back, no questions about it, don't turn that dial even once, all the way through" nominees. BTY you stated - Victor> "I would disagree with this statement and ask if his recordings have had a substantial impact on music and why he would be the only artist with a "possibly comparable accomplishment?" Franklin> Although this was not a "qualification" of the initial discussion, I will briefly address it. Remember, the "accomplishment" was releasing three consecutive CDs that were innovative, inspired and enjoyable enough to be deem front to back "filler-free" (my description), not their sales or impact on the "public" or industry. Obviously, just because someone, or most people for that matter, haven't been exposed to an artist's body of work has little to do with its artistic content/merit. How many people living today do you really think even know who JONI is? It is arguable that if an artist can make a dramatic impact on even one soul,they've accomplished something. Then there's the thought that "An artist cannot fail; it is a success to be one."-Charles Horton Cooley But once, again - counsel - that wasn't the issue being addressed. So my finding concerning that comment, as far as the discussion at hand anyway is - "irrelevant and immaterial, sustained". BTY I found it interesting that you mentioning: "personal favorites aside". I'm not quite sure what to make of that. Since art, by definition, is subjective, taste, I would think that "personal favorites" would play a major factor in anyone's choices. I doubt you were insinuating that you were being objective in your category entries. Then again, odd as it might seem to me, maybe you were. In any event, assuming you are a music aficionado, I recommend (or challenge) you to pick up the first L.A. Cowboy release "Farewell". I would request that you listen to and read the songs on the CD straight through three or four times - if necessary. If you find it qualifies as "filler-free" proceed to the second, then third if the other two have "passed" the discussion definitions. Should you find the first or any subsequent CD disqualifies my assertion, I will go as far as to purchase them from you (need excellent holiday gifts anyway). Now as to whether you will approach this "personally", or "objectively" is your call. You can find them at Amazon.com - I think, or at L.A. Cowboy's web site - http:www.lacowboy.com Victor> no further questions your honor... Franklin> Case closed... "He that wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skills. Our antagonist is our helper." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:01:37 -0800 From: David Marine Subject: Re: accomplishment NJC Hmmmm...what about Nick Drake? Five Leaves Left (69) Bryter Layter (70) Pink Moon (72) All three, stunning. David > Remember, the "accomplishment" > was releasing three consecutive CDs that were innovative, inspired > and enjoyable enough to be deem front to back "filler-free" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:04:19 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: accomplishment NJC In a message dated 11/13/2002 6:46:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, franklinshea@mn.rr.com writes: > 1972 Talking Book > 1973 Innervisions > 1974 Fullfillingness' First Finale > > >Franklin: I love Stevie Wonder, Victor. That said: I can hardly > >agree with the notion that there's not some "filler" on each of > >these CDs though. Your CD's must have some added bonus tracks, Franklin. The versions I have of the above are completely and 100% free of filler! ;~) Pray tell thee sir, this scurvy knave is dying to know which Stevie songs you would deem as "filler" on the above. (Be forewarned: there IS no right answer to this question) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:19:2 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: accomplishment NJC > First comment, would be that discussing past, > >current, or future impact was not the issue, as I understood it. > >The point was strictly about the conistency of "consistent, > >inspirational quality". The point, at least as far as I understood > >it was artists capable of releasing innovative, totally "filler > >free" album/CDs. There is a world full of great artists with spotty > >records (no pun intended) as far as timeless, meaningful, classic > >songs go. Sure, they might have a few (if one is fortunate indeed) > >songs on any given CD that are memorable, that become part of one's > >life. I do consider the albums I mentioned to be filler free. I believe they are of "consistent inspirational quality" and I would not change anything about them. And one of the reasons these particular artists stand out to me, is not only do they all possess a sheer beautiful and magical quality, but they are all hugely innovative and have definately helped shape the direction of music then and now. I feel the same way about Blue, For the Roses, and Court and Spark. Not only are they beautiful works of art but they have had a huge impact on music itself and influenced countless musicians and continue to do so. When I think of what Joni has done, I have to take all of this into consideration. Those three albums she did were groundbreaking and in my opinion, that is part of her accomplishment. > Obviously, just because someone, or most people for that matter, > haven't been exposed to an artist's body of work has little to do > with its artistic content/merit. > No it does not. But again these records have influenced countless musicians and they are still held in high regard thirty some odd years later. I see that as a major accomplishment. > BTY I found it interesting that you mentioning: "personal > favorites aside". I'm not quite sure what to make of that. > Since art, by definition, is subjective, taste, I would think that > "personal favorites" would play a major factor in anyone's choices. I > doubt you were insinuating that you were being objective in your > category entries. Then again, odd as it might seem to me, maybe you > were. > I only meant that I was taking more than my own personal taste into consideration when thinking of people who have come close to what Joni has accomplished, considering everything I have mentioned above. For sure, everyone is going to have a different opinion if we are only speaking about strictly artistic content. Victor in Asheville - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:28:0 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Nick Drake(njc)NJC Yes, I do believe I would add Nick Drake to that list. I only hesitated because I love these albums so much I was afraid I was being biased but what the feck! Now that you mention it, he would be right at the top of my list. His influence is unquestionable and they are all so hauntingly beautiful. Victor Hmmmm...what about Nick Drake? > > Five Leaves Left (69) > Bryter Layter (70) > Pink Moon (72) - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:47:25 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #486 The poet Robert Lowell once described himself as "feeling too much, seeing too much with a layer of skin missing". Kind of applies to Joni I think. I feel a little bad for her. I think she may be having a very difficult time with leaving the music world and maybe aging too. It's not easy on anyone. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:56:42 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Linda Thompson - njc Jerry, quoting Linda Thompson, writes: << "I was sitting in bed today thinking, 'I wish I could be a gay icon,' but gay men hate folk music." >> Not if it is performed by cute Eastern European Olympic gymnasts in lycra! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:05:45 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: RollingStone.com: Recordings: Joni Mitchell, Travelogue, 2Stars Muller wrote: << NP: (Kate's older brother) Tony Bennett, "They Can't Take That Away From Me" >> And then a heartbroken Kate responded with: << ahemm bob...i am not that old...try UNCLE! >> Dear Kate, I am so sorry this was posted. My heart just fell -- fell! -- when I saw what that mean Muller had written. And they call HIM the *nice* Bob . . . Go figure. XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:12:49 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #486 >The poet Robert Lowell once described himself as "feeling too much, seeing >too much with a layer of skin missing". Kind of applies to Joni I think. Yes..it really does. Thanks for sharing this! Lama: I went to get the book today. I did not know that it was not available in stores yet.. Borders will not have it until (April) 2003? I will order it from Amazon though. (I'm always behind the time..just like this train..) RECOGNITION: When I think of you and your place here, I think of you as a professor.. all things Joni. We need a professor here. Bree _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:15:32 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni segment on PBS I found the name of the PBS show from last friday that had the brilliant Joni content: From TV GUIDE: Under the Covers Photographer Henry Diltz and artist Gary Burden, who created some of the classic album cover art of the 60's and 70's, tell stories of Los Angeles during rock's heydey. Diltz' apparently shot a lot of blue-filter stuff for Blue, none of which was used. For me, the best part of the segment was the old super-8 footage of Joni. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:42:50 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Article says Joni's calling it quits is it possible ... just possible ... that joni may secretly want to be glitzy? No .. I just can't picture in my minds eye joni grabbing her crotch but show her tits? Well, she showed her ass on FTR. She has every right to be pissed about the music business but Joni, please, move on already. Joni is the crhme de la crhme. Kate has a good idea... Joni should start her own label. Would she let anyone else record on it though? Kate ... doesn't Joni consider Jonatha Brooke and Aimee Mann part of the mainstream? Maybe we should start writing Joni's responses in interviews for her ;-" Best- Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Kate Bennett Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:27 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Article says Joni's calling it quits >>saying she would never take another deal in the record business, "which means I may not record again".<< who knows... but NEVER taking another record deal is one thing... & MAY not record again is another...hope springs eternal... pssst....Joni, you can do this on your own...you don't need no stinkin record company...there is a lot of great music out there! pay no attention to what the mainstream biz is producing these days...you won't find it too much of it there...that doesn't mean it isn't alive & well...your songs stand up on their own...remember when you recorded with just a vocal & guitar/piano? & blew us all away...c'mon...you still have a lot to say... stephen wrote >>But she said: "no one wants to listen to what I have to say." She seemed extremely pissed, and rightly so, that she has not received the "recognition" she truly deserves.<< i know she feels this way & i can understand where she is coming from only in the context of where the music biz has gone...but i believe she is looking in the wrong direction for recognition...the music biz is indeed as she describes it but so what?...she can just go around it...i really wish she'd stop looking at her music reflected through the biz & start looking at what other folks (especially woman) have done recently ... 2 great examples are jonatha brooke & aimee mann...they've had more success & recognition on their own terms than they ever had when they had a record deal...joni may not have the widespread commercial success of some other, less talented, 'artists', but that has never been her priority... she has a significant fan base that i am convinced would buy an album of her new songs (!) if she were to release them independently & she'd be keeping all the profits from the sales instead of handing it over to a label... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:06:30 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits In a message dated 11/13/2002 9:42:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, chiaroscuro@snet.net writes: > ... doesn't Joni consider Jonatha Brooke and Aimee Mann part of the > mainstream? > I don't know what Joan has to say about Jonatha, but about aimee she said "she dares to put the anxiety back in rock." ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:11:19 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Article says Joni's calling it quits - njc And I hear Barbra Streisand has retired, too! Yeah, right. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:31:45 -0500 From: Eric W Taylor Subject: Re: Speaking about bizarre links... Bob wrote: << word on the street has it that Joni's already back in the studio doing her next project, orchestrating the following songs with added lyrical twists: 1. I Had a King of Kings 2. Tin Angel of the Lord 3. My Old Man - Jesus! 4. You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio that only plays bland Christian music 5. Free Man in Jerusalem 6. In France They Pass the Offering Plate 7. Otis & Mary Magdalena 8. Sex Kills, Jesus Saves 9. Urge For Going to Church 10. The Last Time I Saw Jesus >> LOLROTF! Here are a few I'd like to hear on Joni's new Gospel project: Conversation With Madonna Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Jesus Woman Of Heart, Mind & Spirit Help Me Lord Harry's House of Worship For Free Courtesy Of Gideon Down To You God Shades Of The Scarlet Harlot Two Grey Rooms In Hell A Strange Boy Is Saved The Wolf That Lives In Sheeps Clothing How Do You Stop An Abortion Night In The City Of Sin Wild Things Run Contrary To Christ ;~D ET ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:32:35 -0500 From: "PAUL PETERSON" Subject: rolling stoned anyone concerned about the review of Travelogue in Rolling Stone has only to peruse their archived reviews of her past work to see how idiotic their assessment of her work has been in the past. I just got through reading a few and boy! have they missed the boat! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:36:35 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: november 13!!!!! NJC i know, i know. REALLY late, but still H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y COYOTE RICK, HUNK OF HUNKS! love, wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:43:51 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: nov 13 II NJC catherine, i hope you get this message! H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y dear friend! and thank you ever so much for jane's music! love, wallyK, when last i was a fisherman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:20:38 +0100 From: Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup Subject: Re: Speaking about bizarre links... Bob's alternative songlist: > 1. I Had a King of Kings > 2. Tin Angel of the Lord > 3. My Old Man - Jesus! > 4. You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio that only plays bland Christian music > 5. Free Man in Jerusalem > 6. In France They Pass the Offering Plate > 7. Otis & Mary Magdalena > 8. Sex Kills, Jesus Saves > 9. Urge For Going to Church > 10. The Last Time I Saw Jesus >> > ET's list: > Conversation With Madonna > Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Jesus > Woman Of Heart, Mind & Spirit > Help Me Lord > Harry's House of Worship > For Free Courtesy Of Gideon > Down To You God > Shades Of The Scarlet Harlot > Two Grey Rooms In Hell > A Strange Boy Is Saved > The Wolf That Lives In Sheeps Clothing > How Do You Stop An Abortion > Night In The City Of Sin > Wild Things Run Contrary To Christ > > LMAO!!! (Jack had to translate the "LOLROTF" :) I'll add some suggestions for headlines for the NY Post... Joni Eats Madonna Last Chance Of Friendship Lost A Fist In The Sky Stormy Weather Between Joni And Madonna Don't Talk To Me - You're Too Dumb! Be Cool, Joni! Madonna interpreting Jonisongs... I'LL Be Your Off Night Backstreet My Secret Place Below The Waist Sex Kills So Why Am I alive? That Dream About The Runway And a statement from Joni... I'm Not To Blame - The Music Industry Is And last my wish for the future... Songs To Aging Joni Come ;-D Christina, the Danish ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:21:14 +0100 From: Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup Subject: Re: Speaking about bizarre links... Bob's alternative songlist: > 1. I Had a King of Kings > 2. Tin Angel of the Lord > 3. My Old Man - Jesus! > 4. You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio that only plays bland Christian music > 5. Free Man in Jerusalem > 6. In France They Pass the Offering Plate > 7. Otis & Mary Magdalena > 8. Sex Kills, Jesus Saves > 9. Urge For Going to Church > 10. The Last Time I Saw Jesus >> > ET's list: > Conversation With Madonna > Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Jesus > Woman Of Heart, Mind & Spirit > Help Me Lord > Harry's House of Worship > For Free Courtesy Of Gideon > Down To You God > Shades Of The Scarlet Harlot > Two Grey Rooms In Hell > A Strange Boy Is Saved > The Wolf That Lives In Sheeps Clothing > How Do You Stop An Abortion > Night In The City Of Sin > Wild Things Run Contrary To Christ > > LMAO!!! (Jack had to translate the "LOLROTF" :) I'll add some suggestions for headlines for the NY Post... Joni Eats Madonna Last Chance Of Friendship Lost A Fist In The Sky Stormy Weather Between Joni And Madonna Don't Talk To Me - You're Too Dumb! Be Cool, Joni! Madonna interpreting Jonisongs... I'LL Be Your Off Night Backstreet My Secret Place Below The Waist Sex Kills So Why Am I alive? That Dream About The Runway And a statement from Joni... I'm Not To Blame - The Music Industry Is And last my wish for the future... Songs To Aging Joni Come ;-D Christina, the Danish ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #487 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)